[FedCom] So Cal Justice System - An Alternate View
T.K. Ruffzarf
[email protected]
Sat, 17 May 2003 19:02:48 +0000
>From: Chris Parris <[email protected]>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: FEDCOM <[email protected]>
>Subject: [FedCom] So Cal Justice System - An Alternate View
>Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 00:23:24 -0400
>
>I recently had a chance to spend some time down in the San Diego area and
>was anxious to try and hear for myself some of the weird and wacky comms
>that have been described on the FEDCOM list by Scott, a.k.a. T. K.
>Ruffzarf. After a week in the area, I have come up with some personal
>theories about what is being heard.
>
>First off, I do not believe that this system is running any kind of exotic
>digital mode other than Motorola ASTO IMBE, APCO Project 25 compliant
>digital. I monitored these frequencies with the BC-250D scanner with the
>APCO-25 digital board, and heard both clear P25 and / or encrypted P25
>digital on all these listed frequencies. I have looked in to the "Seneca"
>encryption that has been mentioned by Ruff, but the Motorola & Harris press
>information seems to describe "Seneca" as the model name of the new line of
>radios, not a digital encryption standard, (There is a European project
>involving Motorola called SENECA, but it involves voice recognition in
>automobiles).
>
>Secondly, I can't be sure this is a trunked system. I searched from one end
>of the VHF spectrum to the other and was never able to hear anything that
>even remotely sounded like trunking control data, or any other kind of data
>(other than DES on known Customs frequencies or paging data). I tried all
>the frequencies that were posted as "controllers", but never heard a peep.
>I did do searches in very small steps, as recent posts from Ruff seem to
>indicate some strange channel steps might be used (165.270 and 172.020 and
>172.030 were listed), but nothing unusual was found.
>
>I searched the bands using several radios, including the BC250D, the
>Optoelectronics Optocomm radio and an Alinco DJX-10. I also sat a various
>locations around the San Diego County area, including Point Loma, Cabrillo
>National Monument area, Mission Valley, El Cajon and the Alpine area.
>Again, no sign of any trunking data was heard.
>
>Another interesting question is the sheer number of frequencies that seem
>to be used. In preparation for this trip, I started a spreadsheet of the
>frequencies that had been posted here that were alleged to be part of this
>system. Although I'm sure I only caught some of the posts, there were close
>to 200 unique frequencies listed. The major technical benefit from using a
>trunked radio system is the efficient use of radio spectrum. You are
>supposed to be able to fit maximum users in minimum radio frequencies. This
>system, if trunked, would appear to be going the wrong way - a maximum
>number of frequencies with an apparently small number of agencies!
>
>I will freely admit that I have no idea of how this system is set up as far
>as inputs, outputs, transmitter locations, and channels. There are many
>active frequencies that seem to be involved in this, but since they are
>mostly encrypted and the users or purposes can't really be discerned, it's
>still a guessing game. I can confirm that some of the un-encrypted
>communications that were monitored sounded like Border Patrol operations.
>But since I heard only ASTRO IMBE digital comms, I honestly don't think
>that the digital part of the system is somehow unique in requiring multiple
>repeaters inputs or outputs for it's operation. Public safety radio systems
>around the country are using the same digital modes without any unusual
>requirements for multiple simultaneous repeaters. However, those of us who
>are old enough to remember the older Border Patrol radio system, which did
>have repeaters feeding in to other repeaters, one could often hear a Border
>Patrol unit talking in to 4 or 5 repeaters at the same time for wide-area
>coverage.
>
>Even with the previously mentioned FEDCOM frequency posts, I can only
>confirm about 40 or so active frequencies that I believe are part of this
>San Diego area system. I could not confirm that many different frequencies
>were all activated with one input. I was searching through the listed
>frequencies and when one came up active, I did not hear others come up at
>the same time. Also, when one frequency did become active, that frequency
>seemed to stay active with that particular conversation until it was
>through and not hop over to another frequency as you might expect on a
>trunked system. When I was able to catch an un-encrypted radio talking with
>an encrypted radio, the back-and-forth comms would stay on that frequency
>for the duration.
>
>So, here are the frequencies that I found active with digital comms during
>my searches, along with any notes on what was heard. P25 means un-encrypted
>APCO Project 25 compliant digital comms; ENC means encrypted P25 digital
>comms:
>
>143.2750 P25 Military, probably not part of "Justice
>System"
>162.7000 ENC
>162.8500 ENC
>163.6500 ENC
>165.0625 ENC
>165.8250 ENC
>165.8750 ENC
>165.8875 ENC Busy
>165.9125 ENC Busy
>166.8750 ENC
>166.9125 P25 Un-encrypted digital heard
>166.9500 ENC
>167.1500 ENC Strong @ Mission Valley
>167.2250 ENC
>167.2375 ENC Strong @ Mission Valley
>167.3625 ENC Busy
>167.3750 ENC Busy
>167.5250 P25 Un-encrypted digital heard
>167.6000 ENC
>167.7250 ENC
>167.7875 ENC
>168.5000 P25 / ENC Suspected Border Patrol P25
>168.8250 P25 Un-encrypted digital heard
>169.3000 P25 Transportation Security Administration @
>SAN (input)
>169.6375 ENC
>170.0625 P25 / ENC Un-encrypted digital heard
>170.6750 ENC Busy
>170.7500 P25 Un-encrypted digital heard
>170.9125 ENC
>171.1750 ENC
>171.2625 ENC Busy
>171.3375 ENC
>171.4375 ENC
>171.5125 ENC Busy
>171.6375 ENC
>172.0250 ENC
>172.2875 ENC
>172.4000 ENC Busy
>172.5125 P25 / ENC Busy
>172.9000 P25 Transportation Security Administration @
>SAN (repeater)
>173.3500 P25 Un-encrypted digital heard
>173.4500 P25 / ENC Confirmed Border Patrol P25
>173.4625 ENC
>173.6625 ENC
>173.9750 ENC Busy
>
>So, that is all I have to offer on this subject so far. I plan on making
>some further trips to the area to try and see what else I can find, but for
>the time this system seems to remain a mystery, but perhaps not as
>mysterious as has been previously reported.
>
>- Chris
>
> --
> Chris Parris
> Beaverton, OR
> [email protected]
> www.groups.yahoo.com/group/pdxmilcom
> wwwlive365.com/stations/cparris2
>_______________________________________________
>FedCom mailing list
>[email protected]
>http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/fedcom
Chris- Outstanding sheet. Most of what I wrote was written before I got
the digital scanner.
Most of the channels sound now like border patrol, 168.500 being a main
channel, as is 173.450 and 173.975 down south. 172.5125 is referred to by BP
as "tac" or "2", leading me to believe it is BP Tac-2.
And yes, it sounds like straight P25 digital, unless coded, which FBI is
100% and BP about 98% or so.
I've also recently found inputs on 172.000, 162.750, and 162.7625. I have
alot of chatter direct (or input) on 166.6375. The amount of freqs is due
to the terrain, you have to have sites on almost every mountain top in the
back country in order to have clear encrypted comms. As for the trunking, I
don't know what to tell you. I definitely pick up a controller on 165.270,
unless it's moved since then (highly possible). Again, Border Patrol seems
to be on all the freqs except the 167's which are FBI, and some others, like
170.8125, 168.3375. Going through the 167's, I've heard digital on almost
every freq, starting at .1375, .150, then .2125-.8375, with these
exceptions: Any freq in use as a Los Angeles repeater, and 250, 275, 300,
6875, and 750. Thats alot of freqs, most sound like repeaters, and some are
inputs/directs. There are 3 or 4 "channels" that definitely have one input
and anywhere from 4 to maybe as high as 8 different outputs. I have the
lists at home (I'm at work). 167.325 and .525 seem to be the busy, closest
FBI repeaters to me. The UHF trunked system (408.3,411.025,412.575,414.125)
is definitely prisons, whether downtown or Otay Mesa I don't know. I think
Prisons gave up the 170 freqs for the Justice system. Scott
_________________________________________________________________
Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail