From nick at 3rdtech.com  Sat Mar  1 22:19:02 2008
From: nick at 3rdtech.com (Nick England)
Date: Sat Mar  1 22:23:14 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Navy CV-2460 RTTY AFSK TU
Message-ID: <030301c87c14$2a830980$6601a8c0@cs.unc.edu>

Does anyone have a manual or one of these units? I have one and have been
tracing out the wiring and connections, but still need to know how to set
the jumpers on card 1A7 which is the RCV TTY LOOP driver. Please let me know
even if you have one and it isn''t working or you don't have a manual
either.
have fun.
Nick
www.virhistory.com/navy
---------------------------


From drhouse at dls.net  Sun Mar  2 16:55:02 2008
From: drhouse at dls.net (Don Robert House)
Date: Sun Mar  2 16:59:20 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: RTTY needs in Ocean Beach
In-Reply-To: <EMEPKDEJDNHEMLEAHGKHIEPDFCAA.ezeran@ezeran.cnc.net>
References: <EMEPKDEJDNHEMLEAHGKHIEPDFCAA.ezeran@ezeran.cnc.net>
Message-ID: <B87747DD-5C18-4E7D-96E8-651BDD5209BB@dls.net>

HI ED,

WHAT A GOOD CAUSE.  I WISH I WAS STILL THERE TO HELP YOU.  CURRENTLY  
MY WIFE HAS ME EXILED IN NORTHERN ILLINOIS.

I WILL PASS THIS ON TO OUR TELETYPE ENTHUSIASTS WEB GROUP TO SEE IF  
ANY OF OUR MEMBERS CAN HELP YOU.

73,

Don

Don R. House, K9TTY
Curator Emeritus NADCOMM


On 2 Mar 2008, at 10:18 AM, Ed Zeranski wrote:

Hello!

	I'm trying to put together a small '50s-early'60s shipboard radio  
station
in my shack in Ocean Beach. The equipment so far is:

TX  AN/SRT-14/15A
RX  R390A 2ea
Conv CV89/URA-8

I do have a couple of tactical machines, TT4-C/TG, Kleinschmidt TT76,  
and
mite but would like a Navy teletype tp go with the other grey gear. I  
saw
your museum was closed but wondered if you knew of anyone who has a  
machine
for sale or perhaps a source for a Navy tty.

Thanks!

73
Ed Zeranski KG6UTS
kg6uts@amsat.org


From w6icm at 4fast.net  Mon Mar  3 14:01:52 2008
From: w6icm at 4fast.net (w6icm)
Date: Mon Mar  3 14:06:03 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] radio interference, model 28
Message-ID: <002a01c87d61$0ab123a0$0201a8c0@ozzie1>

WTB 
Signal line "radio interference suppressor" ...

I am unable to use my model 28 on 80 meters due to big interference spikes generated by the selector magnets.

Any "words of wisdom"?

TNX
73

Ozzie, w6icm



From RLAAG at pacbell.net  Mon Mar  3 15:14:20 2008
From: RLAAG at pacbell.net (RLAAG@pacbell.net)
Date: Mon Mar  3 15:18:39 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] radio interference, model 28
Message-ID: <030320082014.4628.47CC5C1C0000F1D60000121422243651029B0A02D204040A0D0C0E9FBFB9BEBEB4AD@att.net>

JUST WONDERING IN ADDITION IF YOU WERE USING THE POLAR RELAY IN THE MACHINE OR A MOTOR WITH A SPEED GOVERNOR???



-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "w6icm" <w6icm@4fast.net>
>
> WTB 
> Signal line "radio interference suppressor" ...
> 
> I am unable to use my model 28 on 80 meters due to big interference spikes 
> generated by the selector magnets.
> 
> Any "words of wisdom"?
> 
> TNX
> 73
> 
> Ozzie, w6icm
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys





>


From w6icm at 4fast.net  Wed Mar  5 11:37:23 2008
From: w6icm at 4fast.net (w6icm)
Date: Wed Mar  5 11:41:37 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Dovetron MPC-1000
Message-ID: <001401c87edf$30c87730$0201a8c0@ozzie1>

I need the schematics (no the block diagram) 

Where can I get them?
73
Ozzie, w6icm

From LeeCraner at aol.com  Wed Mar  5 12:46:18 2008
From: LeeCraner at aol.com (LeeCraner@aol.com)
Date: Wed Mar  5 12:49:51 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: Dovetron MPC-1000
Message-ID: <d20.2411f5e7.3500366a@aol.com>

Ozzie:

I have a ton of scanned Dovetron manuals and schematics.? The total files are 
fairly large (10mbytes or so, I would guess) so I don't know if your ISP can 
handle large file downloads.? Here's my index.? Let me know which one(s) you 
want.

73
Lee WB6SSW

Index of Dovetron .pdf File Contents

Dovetron MPC-1000C Manual.pdf

MPC-1000C Manual
MPC-1000/MPC-1000C Schematic
MPC-1000/MPC-1000C Board layout

Dovetron MPC-1000CR Manual.pdf

MPC-1000CR Manual
TSR-200 Instructions
SBR-100 Instructions
SSD-100 Instructions
ASCII Operations w/MPC Series Instructions
SSD-100 Schematic and board layout
KOS-100 Schematic and board layout

Dovetron MPC-1000CR TII Manual.pdf

MPC-1000CR/T Mark II Manual
MPC-1000T Manual
BBP-100 Instructions
KOS-100 Instructions
TMS-100 Instructions

Dovetron MPC-1000R Manual.pdf

MPC-1000R Manual
TSR-500D Instructions
DAS-100 Instructions
TMS-100 Instructions
KOS-100 Instructions
RIF-100 Instructions
SCL-100 Instructions
SSD-100 Instructions
TID-100 Instructions

Dovetron KOS-100

Separate instructions for the KOS-100 board

Dovetron SSD-100

Separate instructions for the SSD-100 display

Dovetron BBP-100

Separate instructions and schematic for the BBP board

Dovetron Selection Guide

Description of the Dovetron TU line and available options
(most of these are also covered in the following file)

Dovetron Specs, Prices and Notes.pdf

Multipath Corrections & In-Band Diversity article
MPC-1000R Variations description
MPC-1000R Mark II description
MPC-1000R Mark II Addendum
MPC-1000CR E Series description
Additional Features of E Series description
TSR-200D description
BBP-100 description
KOS-100 description
SSD-100 description
DAS-100 description
TID-100 description
TSR-400D description
TSR-500D description
Selective Calling Options
RIF-100 description
PKC-100 description
HVP-100 description
Isolation-Balanced AFSK Key Output Options
MPC-1000T description
MPC-1000C/DK description
MPC-1000CR/DK description
TBA-1000 description
Amateur Price List October 1980
Commercial Price List October 1980
Miscellaneous set-up notes and correspondence



---------------------------------------------------------------
No trees were harmed in sending this email, 
but a whole lot of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.


**************
It's 
Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money &amp; Finance.
      
(http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)
From odaymg at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  6 12:16:26 2008
From: odaymg at yahoo.com (Michael O'Day)
Date: Thu Mar  6 12:21:03 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] ebay - Teletype Corp 3 Volume Model 33 / 35 Manual Set 
Message-ID: <688827.14264.qm@web50004.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Found this on eBay today (3/6)

Teletype Corp 3 Volume Model 33 / 35 Manual Set RTTY
Quantity: 100 available 
Price:  US $11.00 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Teletype-Corp-3-Volume-Model-33-35-Manual-Set-RTTY_W0QQitemZ370018690228QQihZ024QQcategoryZ15050QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQ_trksidZp1638.m118.l1247QQcmdZViewItem

Mike - N9ODM


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
From odaymg at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  6 12:23:10 2008
From: odaymg at yahoo.com (Michael O'Day)
Date: Thu Mar  6 12:27:47 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] eBay - Tickertape Ticker tape RTTY teletype radio TTY
	telex
Message-ID: <203384.32286.qm@web50003.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I also found this on eBay today (3/6).
Must be a good day for RTTY stuff.

This is two rolls of paper tape, their description is
that it came from a relative who was a ham:
"The smaller roll is 1" wide. The larger roll, unused,
is 11/16" wide."

http://cgi.ebay.com/Tickertape-Ticker-tape-RTTY-teletype-radio-TTY-telex_W0QQitemZ160214629805QQihZ006QQcategoryZ1247QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Mike - N9ODM


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
From ross at hypertools.com  Thu Mar  6 14:57:16 2008
From: ross at hypertools.com (David Ross)
Date: Thu Mar  6 15:08:01 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: Dovetron MPC-1000
In-Reply-To: <d20.2411f5e7.3500366a@aol.com>
References: <d20.2411f5e7.3500366a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <47D04C9C.7070802@hypertools.com>

Greenkeys folks -


LeeCraner@aol.com wrote:
> I have a ton of scanned Dovetron manuals and schematics.  The total files are 
> fairly large (10mbytes or so, I would guess) so I don't know if your ISP can 
> handle large file downloads.  Here's my index.  Let me know which one(s) you 
> want.
>
> 73
> Lee WB6SSW

  Lee was kind enough to email all his Dovetron manual .PDF files to me, 
and I have posted them on my website.

<http://www.hypertools.com/dovetron/Dovetron_BBP-100.pdf>
<http://www.hypertools.com/dovetron/Dovetron_KOS-100.pdf>
<http://www.hypertools.com/dovetron/Dovetron_MPC-1000C.pdf>
<http://www.hypertools.com/dovetron/Dovetron_MPC-1000CR.pdf>
<http://www.hypertools.com/dovetron/Dovetron_MPC-1000CR_TII.pdf>
<http://www.hypertools.com/dovetron/Dovetron_MPC-1000R.pdf>
<http://www.hypertools.com/dovetron/Dovetron_Selection_Guide.pdf>
<http://www.hypertools.com/dovetron/Dovetron_Specs,_Prices_and_Notes.pdf>
<http://www.hypertools.com/dovetron/Dovetron_SSD-100.pdf>
<http://www.hypertools.com/dovetron/Index_of_Dovetron_Files.txt>

  Just the manuals are there right now, as time permits I will add a 
Dovetron page and also a link from the main page.



  Oh yeah by the way, I have cases of page printer paper available for 
$40/2 cases.  I do not want to get involved packing & shipping this 
stuff but I can bring cases to the Puyallup, WA swapmeet (coming up this 
weekend) and also to MRCG (May 2 through 4 in San Luis Obispo, CA).

73
Dave Ross    N7EPI
From duncanancy at earthlink.net  Thu Mar  6 15:12:51 2008
From: duncanancy at earthlink.net (Duncan M. Brown)
Date: Thu Mar  6 15:15:39 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: Dovetron MPC-1000
Message-ID: <380-22008346201251145@earthlink.net>


THANKS  - Lee for making his scans available and Dave for posting them!!

Duncan Brown, K2OEQ

Chief TTY operator & repairman
AWA Electronic Communication Museum
http://www.antiquewireless.org/


> [Original Message]
> From: David Ross <ross@hypertools.com>
> To: <greenkeys@mailman.qth.net>
> Date: 06-Mar-08 15:08:02
> Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Re: Dovetron MPC-1000
>
> Greenkeys folks -
>
>
> LeeCraner@aol.com wrote:
> > I have a ton of scanned Dovetron manuals and schematics.  The total
files are 
> > fairly large (10mbytes or so, I would guess) so I don't know if your
ISP can 
> > handle large file downloads.  Here's my index.  Let me know which
one(s) you 
> > want.
> >
> > 73
> > Lee WB6SSW
>
>   Lee was kind enough to email all his Dovetron manual .PDF files to me, 
> and I have posted them on my website.


From drhouse at dls.net  Thu Mar  6 16:03:25 2008
From: drhouse at dls.net (Don Robert House)
Date: Thu Mar  6 16:08:03 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: Dovetron MPC-1000
In-Reply-To: <47D04C9C.7070802@hypertools.com>
References: <d20.2411f5e7.3500366a@aol.com> <47D04C9C.7070802@hypertools.com>
Message-ID: <B186B5D1-4060-4C5E-84DE-CF890013AC4B@dls.net>

THANKS to David and Lee
for helping all of us.

Don
K9TTY


On 6 Mar 2008, at 1:57 PM, David Ross wrote:

Greenkeys folks -


LeeCraner@aol.com wrote:
> I have a ton of scanned Dovetron manuals and schematics.  The total  
> files are fairly large (10mbytes or so, I would guess) so I don't  
> know if your ISP can handle large file downloads.  Here's my index.   
> Let me know which one(s) you want.
>
> 73
> Lee WB6SSW

Lee was kind enough to email all his Dovetron manual .PDF files to me,  
and I have posted them on my website.

<http://www.hypertools.com/dovetron/Dovetron_BBP-100.pdf>
<http://www.hypertools.com/dovetron/Dovetron_KOS-100.pdf>
<http://www.hypertools.com/dovetron/Dovetron_MPC-1000C.pdf>
<http://www.hypertools.com/dovetron/Dovetron_MPC-1000CR.pdf>
<http://www.hypertools.com/dovetron/Dovetron_MPC-1000CR_TII.pdf>
<http://www.hypertools.com/dovetron/Dovetron_MPC-1000R.pdf>
<http://www.hypertools.com/dovetron/Dovetron_Selection_Guide.pdf>
<http://www.hypertools.com/dovetron/ 
Dovetron_Specs,_Prices_and_Notes.pdf>
<http://www.hypertools.com/dovetron/Dovetron_SSD-100.pdf>
<http://www.hypertools.com/dovetron/Index_of_Dovetron_Files.txt>

Just the manuals are there right now, as time permits I will add a  
Dovetron page and also a link from the main page.



Oh yeah by the way, I have cases of page printer paper available for  
$40/2 cases.  I do not want to get involved packing & shipping this  
stuff but I can bring cases to the Puyallup, WA swapmeet (coming up  
this weekend) and also to MRCG (May 2 through 4 in San Luis Obispo, CA).

73
Dave Ross    N7EPI
_______________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys

From tom.p_reilly at pacbell.net  Fri Mar  7 11:30:30 2008
From: tom.p_reilly at pacbell.net (Tom Cusack)
Date: Fri Mar  7 11:35:16 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] HAL 1200A Loop power supply
Message-ID: <20080307163513.8A279859BC6@mailman.qth.net>

Hello to all and a big thank you to everyone helping me locate a 28ASR.
(Still trying to find one on the West Coast)

I recently obtained a HAL ST8000 and am now looking for a LP1200A Loop Power
Supply.

Any help in this new quest is appreciated.

Thanks,

Tom Cusack

WA6CME

From ddillman at igc.org  Fri Mar  7 21:26:05 2008
From: ddillman at igc.org (Richard Dillman)
Date: Fri Mar  7 21:30:51 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] KSM OTA Saturday
Message-ID: <25928885.1204943165695.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net>


for those who might want to engage in some off the air copying, KSM will be on the air as usual this Saturday, standing tall on:

8433.0
12631.0

using Baudot and FEC beginning at about 1900Z with press and weather.

Also on CW on:

426
500
4350.5
6474.0
8438.3
12993.0
16914.0
22445.8

beginning at about 2000Z.

K6KPH will be guarding:

7050.0
14050.0

Best,

RD



=================================
Richard Dillman, W6AWO
Chief Operator, Coast Station KSM
Maritime Radio Historical Society
http://www.radiomarine.org
=================================
From Jerry at n6jp.com  Fri Mar  7 13:02:00 2008
From: Jerry at n6jp.com (Jerry)
Date: Sat Mar  8 11:19:22 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] HAL 1200A Loop power supply
Message-ID: <000501c8807d$58d4fd80$0501a8c0@shopcpu>


Lots of luck.  I've been looking for one of those for decades.  You might as 
well bite the bullet and build a simple loop supply.  Either that or pick up 
a el-chepo st-6 or st-5 or something with a loop supply, and feed it from 
the st-8000 and into your teletype.  Works fine, beats the heck out of 
spending a couple grand for a Hal 1200A power supply or whatever they cost 
these days.  Thats what I do.  Heck of waste of a st-6, but what the heck, I 
didn't feel like building one so that worked for a temporary fix.

I've always wondered why someone doesn't come up with a simple rs232/logic 
to loop supply and market it.  Not a large market, but its there.  I bet 
almost everyone on Greenkeys would buy one!  hi.

regards, Jerry -n6jp-
Hello to all and a big thank you to everyone helping me locate a 28ASR.
(Still trying to find one on the West Coast)

I recently obtained a HAL ST8000 and am now looking for a LP1200A Loop Power
Supply.

Any help in this new quest is appreciated.

Thanks,

Tom Cusack

WA6CME



From hunybuny at eskimo.com  Sat Mar  8 11:33:07 2008
From: hunybuny at eskimo.com (hunybuny@eskimo.com)
Date: Sat Mar  8 11:38:04 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] HAL 1200A Loop power supply
In-Reply-To: <000501c8807d$58d4fd80$0501a8c0@shopcpu>
References: <000501c8807d$58d4fd80$0501a8c0@shopcpu>
Message-ID: <47D2BFC3.2000302@eskimo.com>

I've got 2 schematics of loop supplies.

Since we can't post JPEGs here send me e-mail and I'll forward
them to you.

UE,
W6ESE - tony
NNNNZCZC

Jerry wrote:
>  
> I've always wondered why someone doesn't come up with a simple 
> rs232/logic to loop supply and market it.  Not a large market, but its 
> there.  I bet almost everyone on Greenkeys would buy one!  hi.
> 
> regards, Jerry -n6jp-

-- 
Tony J. Podrasky | MicroSoft error messages written in Haiku:
                  |
                  |         Three things are certain:
                  |         Death, taxes and lost data.
                  |         Guess which has occurred?
From gil at baudot.net  Sat Mar  8 17:25:26 2008
From: gil at baudot.net (gil smith)
Date: Sat Mar  8 17:30:13 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: failure notice
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20080308151711.02655ba0@mail.vauxelectronics.com>

Let me try sending this fu%king thing again -- this greenkeys 
plain-text-only sh*t is really pissing me off.  I need to complain to the 
moderator (oops, that's me).  Technology just sucks more and more every day.

It was only a couple of frickin' links, but let me sanitize them for the 
greenkeys spam filters:

Jerry:

I have a few loop-interface schematics at:

www(dot)baudot(dot)net/tty-connect.htm

www(dot)baudot(dot)net/gil/tty-232

www(dot)baudot(dot)net/gil/tty-232-tap

Obviously, you need to replace (dot) with a period.

gil


At 02:58 PM 3/8/2008, you wrote:
>Hi. This is the qmail-send program at 
>smtpoutwbe02.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net.
>I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses.
>This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.

blah, blah, fuc*ing blah...





Vaux Electronics, Inc.
480-354-5556
(fax: 480-354-5558)
www.vauxelectronics.com


From k1lky at earthlink.net  Sat Mar  8 18:06:10 2008
From: k1lky at earthlink.net (Roy Morgan)
Date: Sat Mar  8 18:13:56 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: failure notice
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20080308151711.02655ba0@mail.vauxelectronics.com>
References: <6.1.2.0.2.20080308151711.02655ba0@mail.vauxelectronics.com>
Message-ID: <AD0E15ED-AEFD-4826-8BD3-CE708E1EB7C5@earthlink.net>


On Mar 8, 2008, at 5:25 PM, gil smith wrote:

> Let me try sending this fu%king thing again -- this greenkeys plain- 
> text-only sh*t is really pissing me off.

Gil,

I wonder if you tried the brackets trick. I'll try it here to see  
what happens.  I'll send it via the list only.

If you get this message intact, let me know.
If you don't get it, let me know.  (HAH!)

<www.baudot.net/tty-connect.htm>

<www.baudot.net/gil/tty-232>

<www.baudot.net/gil/tty-232-tap>

Roy
K1LKY

From heathkit at juno.com  Sat Mar  8 18:17:20 2008
From: heathkit at juno.com (Daniel T Ruth)
Date: Sat Mar  8 18:24:31 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: failure notice
Message-ID: <20080308.181721.5696.0.heathkit@juno.com>

Hams USED TO BE known as a genteel bunch.  (Genteel: adj.  marked by
refinement in taste and manners)

I, for one, did not appreciate the public way in which you expressed your
frustration.

Danny  W3ZF 


On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 15:25:26 -0700 gil smith <gil@baudot.net> writes:
> Let me try sending this fu%king thing again -- this greenkeys 
> plain-text-only sh*t is really pissing me off.  I need to complain to
the 
> moderator (oops, that's me).  Technology just sucks more and more 
> every day.
> 
> It was only a couple of frickin' links, but let me sanitize them for 
> the greenkeys spam filters
From nerd at verizon.net  Sat Mar  8 19:18:00 2008
From: nerd at verizon.net (nerd@verizon.net)
Date: Sat Mar  8 19:23:26 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: failure notice
Message-ID: <0JXF006CNSU6JKR1@vms044.mailsrvcs.net>

Perhaps you have not had enough run-ins with modern technology..



-----Original Message-----

From:  Daniel T Ruth <heathkit@juno.com>
Subj:  Re: [GreenKeys] Re: failure notice
Date:  Sat Mar 8, 2008 6:19 pm
Size:  751 bytes
To:  gil@baudot.net
cc:  greenkeys@mailman.qth.net

Hams USED TO BE known as a genteel bunch.  (Genteel: adj.  marked by
refinement in taste and manners)

I, for one, did not appreciate the public way in which you expressed your
frustration.

Danny  W3ZF 


On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 15:25:26 -0700 gil smith <gil@baudot.net> writes:
> Let me try sending this fu%king thing again -- this greenkeys 
> plain-text-only sh*t is really pissing me off.  I need to complain to
the 
> moderator (oops, that's me).  Technology just sucks more and more 
> every day.
> 
> It was only a couple of frickin' links, but let me sanitize them for 
> the greenkeys spam filters
_______________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys


From n9vmo at comcast.net  Sat Mar  8 20:02:42 2008
From: n9vmo at comcast.net (n9vmo@comcast.net)
Date: Sat Mar  8 20:07:34 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: failure notice
Message-ID: <030920080102.28550.47D33732000DAE0B00006F862200750744010390C702@comcast.net>

Normally I would agree with Mr. Ruth, but in this instance when the moderator of the list cannot post something because the spam filters are rejecting it, then I feel his pain and can sympathize fully with him and I will overlook his choice of comments.

I look at this issue from the point of view of an I.T. tech that has to deal with the quirks of the computing world on a daily basis and have actually let loose with stronger statements than what Gil let fly with, though normally out of earshot of anyone that matters (supervisors and managers) and small children.


Joe
N9VMO
 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Daniel T Ruth <heathkit@juno.com>
> Hams USED TO BE known as a genteel bunch.  (Genteel: adj.  marked by
> refinement in taste and manners)
> 
> I, for one, did not appreciate the public way in which you expressed your
> frustration.
> 
> Danny  W3ZF 
> 
> 
> On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 15:25:26 -0700 gil smith <gil@baudot.net> writes:
> > Let me try sending this fu%king thing again -- this greenkeys 
> > plain-text-only sh*t is really pissing me off.  I need to complain to
> the 
> > moderator (oops, that's me).  Technology just sucks more and more 
> > every day.
> > 
> > It was only a couple of frickin' links, but let me sanitize them for 
> > the greenkeys spam filters
> _______________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys

From ka2wft at arrl.net  Sat Mar  8 20:07:41 2008
From: ka2wft at arrl.net (Doug Alderdice)
Date: Sat Mar  8 20:13:05 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: failure notice
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20080308200640.036c58e0@incoming.verizon.net>

To paraphrase an old quote:

"You never really learn to swear until you use a computer."

73,

Doug, KA2WFT



At 01:02 AM 3/9/2008 +0000, n9vmo@comcast.net wrote:
>Normally I would agree with Mr. Ruth, but in this instance when the 
>moderator of the list cannot post something because the spam filters are 
>rejecting it, then I feel his pain and can sympathize fully with him and I 
>will overlook his choice of comments.
>
>I look at this issue from the point of view of an I.T. tech that has to 
>deal with the quirks of the computing world on a daily basis and have 
>actually let loose with stronger statements than what Gil let fly with, 
>though normally out of earshot of anyone that matters (supervisors and 
>managers) and small children.
>
>
>Joe
>N9VMO
>  -------------- Original message ----------------------
>From: Daniel T Ruth <heathkit@juno.com>
> > Hams USED TO BE known as a genteel bunch.  (Genteel: adj.  marked by
> > refinement in taste and manners)
> >
> > I, for one, did not appreciate the public way in which you expressed your
> > frustration.
> >
> > Danny  W3ZF
> >
> >
> > On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 15:25:26 -0700 gil smith <gil@baudot.net> writes:
> > > Let me try sending this fu%king thing again -- this greenkeys
> > > plain-text-only sh*t is really pissing me off.  I need to complain to
> > the
> > > moderator (oops, that's me).  Technology just sucks more and more
> > > every day.
> > >
> > > It was only a couple of frickin' links, but let me sanitize them for
> > > the greenkeys spam filters


From barneyr at semo.net  Sat Mar  8 19:19:49 2008
From: barneyr at semo.net (Ira B. Rothenhoefer)
Date: Sat Mar  8 20:23:31 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: failure notice
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20080308200640.036c58e0@incoming.verizon.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20080308200640.036c58e0@incoming.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <200803081919.50068.barneyr@semo.net>


Gives new meaning to the phrase, "hit enter"

Or, how you would like to "hit enter"

Barney/NO0N



On Saturday 08 March 2008 08:07 pm, Doug Alderdice wrote:
To paraphrase an old quote:

"You never really learn to swear until you use a computer."

73,

Doug, KA2WFT

At 01:02 AM 3/9/2008 +0000, n9vmo@comcast.net wrote:
>Normally I would agree with Mr. Ruth, but in this instance when the
>moderator of the list cannot post something because the spam filters are
>rejecting it, then I feel his pain and can sympathize fully with him and
> I will overlook his choice of comments.
>
>I look at this issue from the point of view of an I.T. tech that has to
>deal with the quirks of the computing world on a daily basis and have
>actually let loose with stronger statements than what Gil let fly with,
>though normally out of earshot of anyone that matters (supervisors and
>managers) and small children.
>
>
>Joe
>N9VMO
>  -------------- Original message ----------------------
>From: Daniel T Ruth <heathkit@juno.com>
>
> > Hams USED TO BE known as a genteel bunch.  (Genteel: adj.  marked by
> > refinement in taste and manners)
> >
> > I, for one, did not appreciate the public way in which you expressed
> > your frustration.
> >
> > Danny  W3ZF
> >
> > On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 15:25:26 -0700 gil smith <gil@baudot.net> writes:
> > > Let me try sending this fu%king thing again -- this greenkeys
> > > plain-text-only sh*t is really pissing me off.  I need to complain
> > > to
> >
> > the
> >
> > > moderator (oops, that's me).  Technology just sucks more and more
> > > every day.
> > >
> > > It was only a couple of frickin' links, but let me sanitize them for
> > > the greenkeys spam filters

_______________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
From W8MAQ at aol.com  Sat Mar  8 20:37:03 2008
From: W8MAQ at aol.com (W8MAQ@aol.com)
Date: Sat Mar  8 20:42:06 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: failure notice
Message-ID: <bff.316ee5f1.3504993f@aol.com>

No, those remarks were unnecessarily crude.
 
Vy 73 de W8MAQ
 
 
 
In a message dated 3/8/2008 8:03:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
n9vmo@comcast.net writes:
Normally I would agree with Mr. Ruth, but in this  instance when the 
moderator of the list cannot post something because the spam  filters are rejecting 
it, then I feel his pain and can sympathize fully with him  and I will overlook 
his choice of comments.

I look at this issue from the  point of view of an I.T. tech that has to deal 
with the quirks of the computing  world on a daily basis and have actually 
let loose with stronger statements than  what Gil let fly with, though normally 
out of earshot of anyone that matters  (supervisors and managers) and small  
children.


Joe
N9VMO
-------------- Original message  ----------------------
From: Daniel T Ruth <heathkit@juno.com>
>  Hams USED TO BE known as a genteel bunch.  (Genteel: adj.  marked  by
> refinement in taste and manners)
> 
> I, for one, did not  appreciate the public way in which you expressed your
>  frustration.
> 
> Danny  W3ZF 
> 
> 
> On  Sat, 08 Mar 2008 15:25:26 -0700 gil smith <gil@baudot.net> writes:
>  > Let me try sending this fu%king thing again -- this greenkeys 
> >  plain-text-only sh*t is really pissing me off.  I need to complain  to
> the 
> > moderator (oops, that's me).  Technology just  sucks more and more 
> > every day.
> > 
> > It was  only a couple of frickin' links, but let me sanitize them for 
> > the  greenkeys spam filters
>  _______________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing  list
> GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
>  http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys

_______________________________________________
GreenKeys  mailing  list
GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
 



**************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & 
Finance.      (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)
From rkolarik at neb.rr.com  Sat Mar  8 20:39:27 2008
From: rkolarik at neb.rr.com (Ron Kolarik)
Date: Sat Mar  8 20:45:33 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] HAL 1200A Loop power supply
References: <000501c8807d$58d4fd80$0501a8c0@shopcpu>
Message-ID: <02db01c88186$95625770$1000a8c0@inet>

I just happened to be doing some shack cleaning and found a
PCB for Gil's original TTY/232 loop supply.  I no longer need
it as I have the later version....may also have some of the parts
to populate the board.  Docs are still available on baudot.net
under Gil's stuff.  $15 for the board including postage....ask if
you want any parts I might have, looking for cost plus postage
some free.

I would also like to commend Gil on the restraint he showed for
the "failure to deliver" problem. Our IT guy at work has a permanent
"blue cloud" that follows him......reminds me of an old Navy Chief AT
on my last duty station......no restraint there :)>

Ron  K0IDT


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jerry" <Jerry@n6jp.com>
To: "GreenKeys" <greenkeys@mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 12:02 PM
Subject: [GreenKeys] HAL 1200A Loop power supply


>
> I've always wondered why someone doesn't come up with a simple rs232/logic
> to loop supply and market it.  Not a large market, but its there.  I bet
> almost everyone on Greenkeys would buy one!  hi.
>
> regards, Jerry -n6jp-

From gil at baudot.net  Sat Mar  8 21:03:59 2008
From: gil at baudot.net (gil@baudot.net)
Date: Sat Mar  8 21:08:56 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: failure notice
Message-ID: <20080308190359.617ae442d0f8f631a9b3312d6b10cde7.485bcd1ef9.wbe@email.secureserver.net>

Ahh, Sheesh.  

Not the first time I've said something inappropriate, not likely the
last.  Sorry to all who were offended.  

I do indeed get frustrated with computers more and more.  Trained as an
electrical engineer in the 80s, software was required to be tight,
clean, and bug-free.  Today the state of software development is, often,
not.  I wonder how much of my life has been used up fixing problems,
upgrading things that didn't need it, or just waiting for the cursor to
come back.  Must total in the years.  Yeah, the internet has helped a
lot, but I'm not looking forward to protecting my kids from it for the
next decade.

But some things have improved.  Beer is better.  Been enjoying 1554 and
Kiltlifter lately.

gil



From larryradio at worldnet.att.net  Sat Mar  8 21:07:45 2008
From: larryradio at worldnet.att.net (Larry Tighe)
Date: Sat Mar  8 21:13:03 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: failure notice
References: <6.1.2.0.2.20080308151711.02655ba0@mail.vauxelectronics.com>
Message-ID: <007e01c8818a$624750d0$0200a8c0@LARRYTIGHE>



Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: failure notice


> Let me try sending this ........

Howdy Gil,

My sentiments exactly....that and all the overhead of owning/running this 
list, my hat's off to you :>)

My computer knowledge is living proof of...."ignorance is bliss".

lar 

From gblock at sbcglobal.net  Sat Mar  8 22:24:46 2008
From: gblock at sbcglobal.net (Gerry Block)
Date: Sat Mar  8 22:30:46 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: failure notice
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20080308151711.02655ba0@mail.vauxelectronics.com>
References: <6.1.2.0.2.20080308151711.02655ba0@mail.vauxelectronics.com>
Message-ID: <001501c88195$208a1690$ce03000a@Kitchen>

Gil, I for one, think the world has too little personality.  Your adding
some makes the world a better place.

Gerry
AD6MC

-----Original Message-----
From: greenkeys-bounces@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:greenkeys-bounces@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of gil smith
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 2:25 PM
To: greenkeys@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: failure notice

Let me try sending this fu%king thing again -- this greenkeys 
plain-text-only sh*t is really pissing me off.  I need to complain to the 
moderator (oops, that's me).  Technology just sucks more and more every day.

It was only a couple of frickin' links, but let me sanitize them for the 
greenkeys spam filters:

Jerry:

I have a few loop-interface schematics at:

www(dot)baudot(dot)net/tty-connect.htm

www(dot)baudot(dot)net/gil/tty-232

www(dot)baudot(dot)net/gil/tty-232-tap

Obviously, you need to replace (dot) with a period.

gil


At 02:58 PM 3/8/2008, you wrote:
>Hi. This is the qmail-send program at 
>smtpoutwbe02.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net.
>I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following
addresses.
>This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.

blah, blah, fuc*ing blah...





Vaux Electronics, Inc.
480-354-5556
(fax: 480-354-5558)
www.vauxelectronics.com


_______________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys


From gblock at sbcglobal.net  Sat Mar  8 22:26:20 2008
From: gblock at sbcglobal.net (Gerry Block)
Date: Sat Mar  8 22:32:08 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: failure notice
In-Reply-To: <20080308.181721.5696.0.heathkit@juno.com>
References: <20080308.181721.5696.0.heathkit@juno.com>
Message-ID: <001601c88195$5836b670$ce03000a@Kitchen>

Danny,

 I've been around a while, and I can tell you that at no time I can remember
were hams genteel.

Gerry
AD6MC

-----Original Message-----
From: greenkeys-bounces@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:greenkeys-bounces@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Daniel T Ruth
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 3:17 PM
To: gil@baudot.net
Cc: greenkeys@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Re: failure notice

Hams USED TO BE known as a genteel bunch.  (Genteel: adj.  marked by
refinement in taste and manners)

I, for one, did not appreciate the public way in which you expressed your
frustration.

Danny  W3ZF 


On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 15:25:26 -0700 gil smith <gil@baudot.net> writes:
> Let me try sending this fu%king thing again -- this greenkeys 
> plain-text-only sh*t is really pissing me off.  I need to complain to
the 
> moderator (oops, that's me).  Technology just sucks more and more 
> every day.
> 
> It was only a couple of frickin' links, but let me sanitize them for 
> the greenkeys spam filters
_______________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys


From hunybuny at eskimo.com  Sat Mar  8 22:41:57 2008
From: hunybuny at eskimo.com (hunybuny@eskimo.com)
Date: Sat Mar  8 22:47:05 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: failure notice
In-Reply-To: <001601c88195$5836b670$ce03000a@Kitchen>
References: <20080308.181721.5696.0.heathkit@juno.com>
	<001601c88195$5836b670$ce03000a@Kitchen>
Message-ID: <47D35C85.6040408@eskimo.com>

Well - the OT's I knew back in the 60's were nice old geezers.
Far from perfect, but I would go along with the word genteel.

Of course, one of the funniest things I ever "saw" happen in
ham radio was the time one of the OT's was on a repeater, made
a few exchanges and signed off.

Unfortunately, when he hung up the mic, the PPT button got stuck.
The next 15 minutes was *HILARIOUS*. Good thing the FCC wasn't listening.

The last few seconds consisted of "...Hey Jerry - how come the
"transmit" light is on and the meter shows 10 watts output?"

"...whut? - *OH - SON OF A ....!".*

*CLUNK*

:-)

UE,
W6ESE - tony
NNNNZCZC


Gerry Block wrote:
> Danny,
> 
>  I've been around a while, and I can tell you that at no time I can remember
> were hams genteel.
> 
> Gerry
> AD6MC
> 
> Hams USED TO BE known as a genteel bunch.  (Genteel: adj.  marked by
> refinement in taste and manners)
> 
> I, for one, did not appreciate the public way in which you expressed your
> frustration.
> 
> Danny  W3ZF 
> 

-- 
Tony J. Podrasky | MicroSoft error messages written in Haiku:
                  |
                  |             Program aborting:
                  |     Close all that you have worked on.
                  |           You ask far too much.
From Foltarz at rocketmail.com  Sat Mar  8 22:54:43 2008
From: Foltarz at rocketmail.com (Mark Foltarz)
Date: Sat Mar  8 22:59:35 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Lookng for a 28 KSR in the Tampa bay area
Message-ID: <848992.70718.qm@web52708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I know its a long shot, but I am hoping to find a model 28. I had one back in Ohio and 'loaned' it. Well that was many years ago.

So if there is one avaliable not too far from Tampa please advise.

tnx

de KA4JVY

Mark





 
Darn small world - even smaller when it comes to things Corvair.


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
From telegrapher at att.net  Sat Mar  8 22:57:56 2008
From: telegrapher at att.net (telegrapher@att.net)
Date: Sat Mar  8 23:02:55 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: failure notice
In-Reply-To: <bff.316ee5f1.3504993f@aol.com>
References: <bff.316ee5f1.3504993f@aol.com>
Message-ID: <47D36044.6070203@att.net>

Yeah they were, but it sure got the point across.  Really Gil!  Ya 
oughta hear me when this Netscape keeps shutting down in the middle of 
operations and i lose what i was doing.  good thing this ain't a talking 
machine.  The telephone line it's connected to would probably burn up. 
So what!  Understand life as it really happens and not the politically 
correct BS that's being impressed on us.

Larry
W0OGH


W8MAQ@aol.com wrote:

> No, those remarks were unnecessarily crude.
>  
> Vy 73 de W8MAQ
>  
>  
>  
> In a message dated 3/8/2008 8:03:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
> n9vmo@comcast.net writes:
> Normally I would agree with Mr. Ruth, but in this  instance when the 
> moderator of the list cannot post something because the spam  filters are rejecting 
> it, then I feel his pain and can sympathize fully with him  and I will overlook 
> his choice of comments.
> 
> I look at this issue from the  point of view of an I.T. tech that has to deal 
> with the quirks of the computing  world on a daily basis and have actually 
> let loose with stronger statements than  what Gil let fly with, though normally 
> out of earshot of anyone that matters  (supervisors and managers) and small  
> children.
> 
> 
> Joe
> N9VMO
> -------------- Original message  ----------------------
> From: Daniel T Ruth <heathkit@juno.com>
> 
>> Hams USED TO BE known as a genteel bunch.  (Genteel: adj.  marked  by
>>refinement in taste and manners)
>>
>>I, for one, did not  appreciate the public way in which you expressed your
>> frustration.
>>
>>Danny  W3ZF 
>>
>>
>>On  Sat, 08 Mar 2008 15:25:26 -0700 gil smith <gil@baudot.net> writes:
>> > Let me try sending this fu%king thing again -- this greenkeys 
>>
>>> plain-text-only sh*t is really pissing me off.  I need to complain  to
>>
>>the 
>>
>>>moderator (oops, that's me).  Technology just  sucks more and more 
>>>every day.
>>>
>>>It was  only a couple of frickin' links, but let me sanitize them for 
>>>the  greenkeys spam filters
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>GreenKeys mailing  list
>>GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
>> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> GreenKeys  mailing  list
> GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>  
> 
> 
> 
> **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & 
> Finance.      (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)
> _______________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> 
From k1lky at earthlink.net  Sun Mar  9 11:41:29 2008
From: k1lky at earthlink.net (Roy Morgan)
Date: Sun Mar  9 11:49:14 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: failure notice
In-Reply-To: <47D35C85.6040408@eskimo.com>
References: <20080308.181721.5696.0.heathkit@juno.com>
	<001601c88195$5836b670$ce03000a@Kitchen>
	<47D35C85.6040408@eskimo.com>
Message-ID: <2BA4C9E2-EB4A-46AD-BDF6-90732E6BC2B2@earthlink.net>

> Unfortunately, when he hung up the mic, the PPT button got stuck.
> The next 15 minutes was *HILARIOUS*. Good thing the FCC wasn't  
> listening.

Tony,

The same thing happened at one of the (earlier and notable)  
Gaithersburg MD hamfests.  The AM guys had set up an R-390A and a  
T-368 at "The AM Coral".  A normal transmission had been made but the  
needed second push on the foot switch not given.  About 15 minutes  
later someone asked why the receiver was so quiet.  Fellows on the  
other end of the QSO laughed quite a bit.

Of course, the T-368 was quite up to the somewhat continuous  
operation without a hint of fading.

Roy
K1LKY

From w6icm at 4fast.net  Sun Mar  9 12:44:55 2008
From: w6icm at 4fast.net (w6icm)
Date: Sun Mar  9 12:49:46 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] LPW300
Message-ID: <000a01c8820d$49a169c0$0201a8c0@ozzie1>

WTB:
Paper winder for model 28, LPW300 or similar.

73
Ozzie, w6icm
From gil at baudot.net  Sun Mar  9 13:09:59 2008
From: gil at baudot.net (gil@baudot.net)
Date: Sun Mar  9 13:14:55 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: failure notice
Message-ID: <20080309110959.617ae442d0f8f631a9b3312d6b10cde7.9ad6008d66.wbe@email.secureserver.net>


   Hello:
   I  do  apologize  if  I  have  offended  you.  I reached a frustrating
   boiling point, and should have handled the situation more maturely.
   Please  don't leave the list or the hobby on my account -- there are a
   lot of good folks out there on greenkeys, and I sure hope you stay.
   sincerely,
   Gil Smith

     -------- Original Message --------
     Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Re: failure notice
     From: W8MAQ@aol.com
     Date: Sun, March 09, 2008 7:57 am
     To: gil@baudot.net

   In  a  message  dated  3/8/2008  9:03:20  P.M.  Eastern Daylight Time,
   n9vmo@comcast.net writes:

     >  >  It  was  only a couple of frickin' links, but let me sanitize
     them for
     > > the greenkeys spam filters

   You  should  have sanitized your post instead. I have been assailed by
   several members of your porcine group for having taken issue with your
   choice  of verbiage. It's a shame, my enjoyment of this hobby has been
   perverted by your foul blast.



   I  have  un-subscribed  and  when it's time my machines will go to the
   dump.
From kc6ovd at comcast.net  Sun Mar  9 14:58:58 2008
From: kc6ovd at comcast.net (Kevin King)
Date: Sun Mar  9 15:10:16 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: failure notice
In-Reply-To: <20080309110959.617ae442d0f8f631a9b3312d6b10cde7.9ad6008d66.wbe@email.secureserver.net>
Message-ID: <20080309201015.73D52859BB9@mailman.qth.net>

 
Gill,

I also was taken back by what you printed, but I just hit delete and went
on. I do not care for that kind of thing and I hope our greenkeys folks will
come back. An even more shame was the folks that spoke for you to the one
offended.
You could have used some more ASCII to hid the Baudot so it was not so
obvious. HI HI.
Just put a dollar in the bad word jar and move on. This hobby and the adults
on this list will get over it.

-Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: greenkeys-bounces@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:greenkeys-bounces@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of gil@baudot.net
Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 1:10 PM
To: W8MAQ@aol.com
Cc: greenkeys@mailman.qth.net
Subject: RE: [GreenKeys] Re: failure notice


   Hello:
   I  do  apologize  if  I  have  offended  you.  I reached a frustrating
   boiling point, and should have handled the situation more maturely.
   Please  don't leave the list or the hobby on my account -- there are a
   lot of good folks out there on greenkeys, and I sure hope you stay.
   sincerely,
   Gil Smith

     -------- Original Message --------
     Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Re: failure notice
     From: W8MAQ@aol.com
     Date: Sun, March 09, 2008 7:57 am
     To: gil@baudot.net

   In  a  message  dated  3/8/2008  9:03:20  P.M.  Eastern Daylight Time,
   n9vmo@comcast.net writes:

     >  >  It  was  only a couple of frickin' links, but let me sanitize
     them for
     > > the greenkeys spam filters

   You  should  have sanitized your post instead. I have been assailed by
   several members of your porcine group for having taken issue with your
   choice  of verbiage. It's a shame, my enjoyment of this hobby has been
   perverted by your foul blast.



   I  have  un-subscribed  and  when it's time my machines will go to the
   dump.
_______________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys

From w7tty at readysetsurf.com  Sun Mar  9 16:44:07 2008
From: w7tty at readysetsurf.com (George B. Hutchison)
Date: Sun Mar  9 16:49:09 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: failure notice  - Epilog
References: <20080309110959.617ae442d0f8f631a9b3312d6b10cde7.9ad6008d66.wbe@email.secureserver.net>
Message-ID: <000701c8822e$b4cd9ea0$0200a8c0@MAINCOMP>

Gil - - -

I think I can speak for the majority of the GreenKeys crowd and tell 
you "OK, you made a mistake and got a bit testy. I do believe that 
the GreenKeys group does indeed forgive you for whatever horrible 
infraction(s) of decorum you have perpetrated. It is now time to use 
the mistake as a platform from which to learn and go on, as opposed 
to creating some manner of altar upon which you will be slaughtered 
and thrown to the dragons, maggots, and other flesh-eating creatures 
inhabiting the vile pit below."

It would be so pleasant to have a world wherein one could stumble a 
bit without losing pride or face in the eyes of others.

It seems the world is loaded with little vending machines  whereat 
one can purchase a genuine "First Stone", good for generating a locus 
upon which others may cast their less qualified but equally 
condemning stones.

Now, had you made uncomplimentary comments towards the Koran, The 
Kama Sutra, or The Farmer's Almanac, I could comprehend great 
torrents of ill-will dutifully cascading  down uponst your 
self-generated vile unworthiness.

I am certain that there are major brotherhoods of individuals decked 
out in turbans and brandishing machetes, or perhaps oriental fellows 
garbed in magnificent silk robes with keenly-honed Samaurai blades, 
or even Ma and Pa Kettle armed with newly-purchased Tru-Temper Hay 
Forks amassing their combined might into a chartered Greyhound Bus 
barreling their way through the storms and the dark of night heading 
for Arizona intent on chopping, slicing, and skewering your sorry 
backside in order to see that you are painfully aware of how hurt 
their feelings really are.

I guess I am really fortunate in that I do not have to unsubscribe in 
order to take machines to the dump. Don House and I  at one time when 
he lived at his resort in California had a trailer we in which piled 
with all manner of teletype machinery and paraphernalia which was 
destined for the dump.

I held up a TM11-352 in my left hand and raised my right hand and 
told Don to put his his left hand on the book and to raise his right 
hand, and to repeat the following oath:

I, Don Robert House
Do hereby Solemnly swear,
That the contents of the trailer beside me
Are absolutely useless and unworthy of retention.

I know of no Rice Guy (at the time)
With Wire Brush and elbow grease
Capable of Breathing Life into the
Remains of the downtrodden carcasses
Placed so lovingly in the Trailer of Doom.

I hereby also commit my mind and soul
To faithfully remain Subscribed to GreenKeys,
And to weather the pressures of the internet Forever,
NO MATTER WHAT!!!

So help me Kleinschmidt.

Don was openly weeping as he slowly edged the trailer from his garage 
to the highway below. I don't know if the tears were brought on by 
the demise of the equipment or if it was because he was frying the 
brakes of his truck as he went down the hill, but they were real, 
crocodile-style tears.

Gil - Keep up the good work. The unwashed for the most part know 
little of the mess that the internet has become. Al Waller id doing a 
damned fine job keeping QTH.net as clean as it is. It drives you and 
the other moderators nuts, I am sure.

It took eight days before SORBS and Spamhaus released by e-mail to 
once again function, after someone spoofed my IP and ran spam through 
it.

George - W7TTY



From varsdale at verizon.net  Sun Mar  9 19:26:11 2008
From: varsdale at verizon.net (Walt Van Arsdale)
Date: Sun Mar  9 19:29:10 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: failure notice
In-Reply-To: <20080309110959.617ae442d0f8f631a9b3312d6b10cde7.9ad6008d66.wbe@email.secureserver.net>
Message-ID: <BJEDKGLGOPJPAJLDFOJEKEIOFPAA.varsdale@verizon.net>

"perverted by your foul blast"???  My God, what a jerk!
Don't let him bother you.  Besides, he has painted us all
with the "porcine" brush for the acts of a few, no matter
how legitimate their individual views may be.  His head
would probably have exploded had you used really bad words
instead of euphemisms! Anyone that hypersensitive and
over-reactive will not be happy anywhere... except perhaps
in a monastery.  Onward and upward! 73,

Walt  K5SXO

Walt Van Arsdale
Pygmy Wizard Computing
mailto:  varsdale@verizon.net
903.267.3770 mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: greenkeys-bounces@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:greenkeys-bounces@mailman.qth.net]On Behalf Of
gil@baudot.net
Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 1:10 PM
To: W8MAQ@aol.com
Cc: greenkeys@mailman.qth.net
Subject: RE: [GreenKeys] Re: failure notice



   Hello:
   I  do  apologize  if  I  have  offended  you.  I reached
a frustrating
   boiling point, and should have handled the situation more
maturely.
   Please  don't leave the list or the hobby on my
account -- there are a
   lot of good folks out there on greenkeys, and I sure hope
you stay.
   sincerely,
   Gil Smith

     -------- Original Message --------
     Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Re: failure notice
     From: W8MAQ@aol.com
     Date: Sun, March 09, 2008 7:57 am
     To: gil@baudot.net

   In  a  message  dated  3/8/2008  9:03:20  P.M.  Eastern
Daylight Time,
   n9vmo@comcast.net writes:

     >  >  It  was  only a couple of frickin' links, but let
me sanitize
     them for
     > > the greenkeys spam filters

   You  should  have sanitized your post instead. I have
been assailed by
   several members of your porcine group for having taken
issue with your
   choice  of verbiage. It's a shame, my enjoyment of this
hobby has been
   perverted by your foul blast.



   I  have  un-subscribed  and  when it's time my machines
will go to the
   dump.
_______________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys

From rtty at gwltd.com  Sun Mar  9 23:06:45 2008
From: rtty at gwltd.com (Dave Mayfield W9WRL)
Date: Sun Mar  9 20:11:51 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Hal ST-5000 For Sale
In-Reply-To: <000701c8822e$b4cd9ea0$0200a8c0@MAINCOMP>
References: <20080309110959.617ae442d0f8f631a9b3312d6b10cde7.9ad6008d66.wbe@email.secureserver.net>
	<000701c8822e$b4cd9ea0$0200a8c0@MAINCOMP>
Message-ID: <47D4B3D5.7090606@gwltd.com>

Guys, I have found in my stash a Hal ST-5000 TU, in good order with a 
manual $60.00 shipped.

George B. Hutchison wrote:
> Gil - - -
>
> I think I can speak for the majority of the GreenKeys crowd and tell 
> you "OK, you made a mistake and got a bit testy. I do believe that the 
> GreenKeys group does indeed forgive you for whatever horrible 
> infraction(s) of decorum you have perpetrated. It is now time to use 
> the mistake as a platform from which to learn and go on, as opposed to 
> creating some manner of altar upon which you will be slaughtered and 
> thrown to the dragons, maggots, and other flesh-eating creatures 
> inhabiting the vile pit below."
>
> It would be so pleasant to have a world wherein one could stumble a 
> bit without losing pride or face in the eyes of others.
>
> It seems the world is loaded with little vending machines  whereat one 
> can purchase a genuine "First Stone", good for generating a locus upon 
> which others may cast their less qualified but equally condemning stones.
>
> Now, had you made uncomplimentary comments towards the Koran, The Kama 
> Sutra, or The Farmer's Almanac, I could comprehend great torrents of 
> ill-will dutifully cascading  down uponst your self-generated vile 
> unworthiness.
>
> I am certain that there are major brotherhoods of individuals decked 
> out in turbans and brandishing machetes, or perhaps oriental fellows 
> garbed in magnificent silk robes with keenly-honed Samaurai blades, or 
> even Ma and Pa Kettle armed with newly-purchased Tru-Temper Hay Forks 
> amassing their combined might into a chartered Greyhound Bus barreling 
> their way through the storms and the dark of night heading for Arizona 
> intent on chopping, slicing, and skewering your sorry backside in 
> order to see that you are painfully aware of how hurt their feelings 
> really are.
>
> I guess I am really fortunate in that I do not have to unsubscribe in 
> order to take machines to the dump. Don House and I  at one time when 
> he lived at his resort in California had a trailer we in which piled 
> with all manner of teletype machinery and paraphernalia which was 
> destined for the dump.
>
> I held up a TM11-352 in my left hand and raised my right hand and told 
> Don to put his his left hand on the book and to raise his right hand, 
> and to repeat the following oath:
>
> I, Don Robert House
> Do hereby Solemnly swear,
> That the contents of the trailer beside me
> Are absolutely useless and unworthy of retention.
>
> I know of no Rice Guy (at the time)
> With Wire Brush and elbow grease
> Capable of Breathing Life into the
> Remains of the downtrodden carcasses
> Placed so lovingly in the Trailer of Doom.
>
> I hereby also commit my mind and soul
> To faithfully remain Subscribed to GreenKeys,
> And to weather the pressures of the internet Forever,
> NO MATTER WHAT!!!
>
> So help me Kleinschmidt.
>
> Don was openly weeping as he slowly edged the trailer from his garage 
> to the highway below. I don't know if the tears were brought on by the 
> demise of the equipment or if it was because he was frying the brakes 
> of his truck as he went down the hill, but they were real, 
> crocodile-style tears.
>
> Gil - Keep up the good work. The unwashed for the most part know 
> little of the mess that the internet has become. Al Waller id doing a 
> damned fine job keeping QTH.net as clean as it is. It drives you and 
> the other moderators nuts, I am sure.
>
> It took eight days before SORBS and Spamhaus released by e-mail to 
> once again function, after someone spoofed my IP and ran spam through it.
>
> George - W7TTY
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>
>
From eugene at hertzmail.com  Sun Mar  9 20:35:18 2008
From: eugene at hertzmail.com (eugene@hertzmail.com)
Date: Sun Mar  9 20:40:17 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: Dovetron MPC-1000
In-Reply-To: <47D04C9C.7070802@hypertools.com>
Message-ID: <15FF713354AB044F80212306D8035A1002393C25@mse12be2.mse12.exchange.ms>

As a backup server, I too have loaded the files from Lee. THANKS LEE!

http://www.hertzmail.com/RTTY/Dovetron/



-----Original Message-----
From: greenkeys-bounces@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:greenkeys-bounces@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of David Ross
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 2:57 PM
To: greenkeys@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Re: Dovetron MPC-1000

Greenkeys folks -


LeeCraner@aol.com wrote:
> I have a ton of scanned Dovetron manuals and schematics.  The total
files are 
> fairly large (10mbytes or so, I would guess) so I don't know if your
ISP can 
> handle large file downloads.  Here's my index.  Let me know which
one(s) you 
> want.
>
> 73
> Lee WB6SSW

  Lee was kind enough to email all his Dovetron manual .PDF files to me,

and I have posted them on my website.

<http://www.hypertools.com/dovetron/Dovetron_BBP-100.pdf>
<http://www.hypertools.com/dovetron/Dovetron_KOS-100.pdf>
<http://www.hypertools.com/dovetron/Dovetron_MPC-1000C.pdf>
<http://www.hypertools.com/dovetron/Dovetron_MPC-1000CR.pdf>
<http://www.hypertools.com/dovetron/Dovetron_MPC-1000CR_TII.pdf>
<http://www.hypertools.com/dovetron/Dovetron_MPC-1000R.pdf>
<http://www.hypertools.com/dovetron/Dovetron_Selection_Guide.pdf>
<http://www.hypertools.com/dovetron/Dovetron_Specs,_Prices_and_Notes.pdf
>
<http://www.hypertools.com/dovetron/Dovetron_SSD-100.pdf>
<http://www.hypertools.com/dovetron/Index_of_Dovetron_Files.txt>

  Just the manuals are there right now, as time permits I will add a 
Dovetron page and also a link from the main page.



  Oh yeah by the way, I have cases of page printer paper available for 
$40/2 cases.  I do not want to get involved packing & shipping this 
stuff but I can bring cases to the Puyallup, WA swapmeet (coming up this

weekend) and also to MRCG (May 2 through 4 in San Luis Obispo, CA).

73
Dave Ross    N7EPI
_______________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
From charlesmorris at hughes.net  Mon Mar 10 07:16:47 2008
From: charlesmorris at hughes.net (charlesmorris@hughes.net)
Date: Mon Mar 10 07:21:48 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: failure notice
Message-ID: <33237685.1205151407495.JavaMail.?@fh033.dia.cp.net>

>"perverted by your foul blast"???  My God, what a jerk!
Don't let him bother you.  Besides, he has painted us all
with the "porcine" brush for the acts of a few

Couldn't have put it better myself, Walt.

Anyway I think George 'TTY has posted the best and last word(s) 
necessary...

Oink Oink,
-Charles
WB3JOK/1

From ghenry at halcomm.com  Mon Mar 10 09:33:16 2008
From: ghenry at halcomm.com (Bill Henry)
Date: Mon Mar 10 09:38:18 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] HAL 1200A Loop power supply
In-Reply-To: <20080307163513.8A279859BC6@mailman.qth.net>
References: <20080307163513.8A279859BC6@mailman.qth.net>
Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20080310084856.023c8440@mail.halcomm.com>

Tom - and the Greenkeys gang:

HAL loop supplies are all special order products, manufactured to 
order.  The LP-1200, LP-1200A, LP-1201, and LP-1203 are sold primarily to 
export customers, very few to customers in the U.S.  I think you will have 
a hard time finding one of these on the loose.  The LP-1210 may be an 
exception as it is a MIL product and was sold only to the US military 
(1989-1991).  This might show up in surplus sales.  This is a nice unit but 
may be overkill for Greenkeyers as it has ten channels of MIL-188 to 20 mA 
or 60 mA neutral loop (120V).  Just invert RS-232 to get MIL-188.  It has 
an MTBF of 100,000 hours and is in a 7" high rack cabinet.

The other suggestions of using the loop power supply in a ST-5, ST-6, or 
ST-5000 will work fine.  Also note that the RS-2100 RTTY Scope also 
included a loop power supply.  You may also want to check the Fall, 2001 
issue of "The New RTTY Journal" (Vol 49, No. 3, p. 7).  I described a very 
simple 120V, 60 mA supply that uses back-to-back filament 
transformers.  Contact Wayne Matlock at <K7wm@arrl.net> to get CD ROMs of 
the back issues of RJ.

Bill Henry
K9GWT


At 08:30 AM 3/7/2008 -0800, Tom Cusack wrote:
>Hello to all and a big thank you to everyone helping me locate a 28ASR.
>(Still trying to find one on the West Coast)
>
>I recently obtained a HAL ST8000 and am now looking for a LP1200A Loop Power
>Supply.
>
>Any help in this new quest is appreciated.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Tom Cusack
>
>WA6CME
>
>_______________________________________________
>GreenKeys mailing list
>GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
>http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys

From wa2hwj at att.net  Mon Mar 10 11:36:03 2008
From: wa2hwj at att.net (wa2hwj@att.net)
Date: Mon Mar 10 11:41:07 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Ebay items
Message-ID: <031020081636.4143.47D563730003CA580000102F22243429029B0A02D29B9B0EBF069908CD0E99@att.net>

There are three (3) "Teletype type boxes" on Ebay. Just for clarification,
they are for a Model 35 (ASCII), not a Model 28. I have no connection
with the seller (but we seem to have the same junk...)

73,
Jack WA2HWJ
From hunybuny at eskimo.com  Mon Mar 10 12:59:04 2008
From: hunybuny at eskimo.com (hunybuny@eskimo.com)
Date: Mon Mar 10 12:04:12 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Ebay items
In-Reply-To: <031020081636.4143.47D563730003CA580000102F22243429029B0A02D29B9B0EBF069908CD0E99@att.net>
References: <031020081636.4143.47D563730003CA580000102F22243429029B0A02D29B9B0EBF069908CD0E99@att.net>
Message-ID: <47D576E8.9020409@eskimo.com>

It appears he wants $14.something for each one.

I'd like to get the "AT" symbol - and a few of the other ASCII
characters so that I can take one of my model 28 typeboxes and
use it to print my e-mail in a little more formal manner.

Right now I just turn unprintable characters into spaces.

UE,
W6ESE - tony
NNNNZCZC

wa2hwj@att.net wrote:
> There are three (3) "Teletype type boxes" on Ebay. Just for clarification,
> they are for a Model 35 (ASCII), not a Model 28. I have no connection
> with the seller (but we seem to have the same junk...)
> 
> 73,
> Jack WA2HWJ

-- 
Tony J. Podrasky | MicroSoft error messages written in Haiku:
                  |
                  |             Having been erased,
                  |         The document you're seeking
                  |             Must now be retyped.
From packard42 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 10 16:18:00 2008
From: packard42 at gmail.com (Don Robert House)
Date: Mon Mar 10 16:23:29 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Please change my email address in your records...
Message-ID: <23A78389-9FCC-41FF-81DE-15F636161FE0@gmail.com>

I had to terminate my email address drhouse@dls.net

I have now started a new email address: k9tty@dls.net

packard42@gmail.com also still is okay.

Thanks

73,
Don K9TTY
From comcents at bellsouth.net  Mon Mar 10 16:35:48 2008
From: comcents at bellsouth.net (Randy or Sherry Guttery)
Date: Mon Mar 10 16:40:54 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Ebay items
In-Reply-To: <031020081636.4143.47D563730003CA580000102F22243429029B0A02D29B9B0EBF069908CD0E99@att.net>
References: <031020081636.4143.47D563730003CA580000102F22243429029B0A02D29B9B0EBF069908CD0E99@att.net>
Message-ID: <47D5A9B4.1000306@bellsouth.net>

wa2hwj@att.net wrote:
> There are three (3) "Teletype type boxes" on Ebay. Just for clarification,
> they are for a Model 35 (ASCII), not a Model 28. I have no connection
> with the seller (but we seem to have the same junk...)

Some junk - $150 (so far) for the three of them...  all I have to say is 
  WOW!

Dazed and confused (as usual)...
-- 
randy guttery

A Tender Tale - a page dedicated to those Ships and Crews
so vital to the United States Silent Service:
http://tendertale.com
From kf6pqt at gmail.com  Mon Mar 10 19:54:10 2008
From: kf6pqt at gmail.com (kf6pqt)
Date: Mon Mar 10 19:59:14 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] a few bad words from few good men
Message-ID: <a9c11e690803101754s65973e1dq9e003b6d988d6822@mail.gmail.com>

If the mere reference of a bad word on the internet gets your goat,
PLEASE do not leave your bubble and venture into the outside world,
you're not tough enough to survive.

Oh, and please don't point a receiver at 75 meters, as you'll likely
actually hear some of the words that were referenced!

Previous generations beat the nazis and imperial japanese, and later
the soviets. I doubt any of them did it without uttering a few
obscenities!

-Jason kf6pqt



-- 
--... ...-- -.. . -.- ..-. -.... .--. --.- -
AMI #1625 SKCC #3768
http://kf6pqt.net
From drhouse at nadcomm.com  Mon Mar 10 21:11:19 2008
From: drhouse at nadcomm.com (Don Robert House)
Date: Mon Mar 10 21:16:25 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Fwd: Model 15
References: <A2475391BCBB4E2B8FD0E0CDD051DD5F@E1505>
Message-ID: <A52A1BD8-2CD1-4C3C-BE52-464BDF51982E@nadcomm.com>

A Model 15 may still be available.
Don

Begin forwarded message:

> From: "N4XML" <n4xml@sc.rr.com>
> Date: November 12, 2007 10:28:58 PM EST
> To: <drhouse@nadcomm.com>
> Subject: Model 15
>
> To Whom It May Concern:
>
> I was given a Teletype Corporation Model 15 (from pictures I have  
> seen, I believe that is the model) and it needs to find a home  
> before it finds its way to the local recycle center.  This unit  
> weighs somewhere around 150 ? 200 lbs so I know that nobody wants  
> to pay shipping.  If you would know anyone in the Myrtle Beach, SC  
> area that would like to have this unit please respond.  I can  
> supply pictures, it really looks to be in good condition and I  
> believe in working order and I could contact the individual who  
> gave it to me and find out if anyone is interested.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Bob Gagliardi

From ksweek at mindspring.com  Tue Mar 11 07:42:28 2008
From: ksweek at mindspring.com (Ken Schwieker)
Date: Tue Mar 11 07:45:36 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Another idea for a loop supply transformer
Message-ID: <20080311124534.B5D26859BC6@mailman.qth.net>

When building a ST-6 many years ago I used a transformer that had a 
dual primary for 115 or 230 volt operation. The secondaries were used 
for the low voltage and the second primary as a loop supply winding. 
The total loads of the low voltage secondary and the new HV secondary 
were checked to be sure they totaled less than half of the total 
wattage that the transformer was rated for to prevent overloading of 
the primary.  Any sufficiently rated transformer can be used the same 
way for a loop supply.

The transformer used in my ST-6 is a Stancor P-6377. It has two 12 
volt  2 amp secondary windings as well as the two 115 volt primary 
ones. It made for a fairly compact ST-6. A link to a picture is 
below. The outside transformer shell was lifted off of another 
transformer for protection.

http://www.mindspring.com/~ksweek/images/ST-6.jpg

This or any other suitable transformer could have been used alone 
with the two secondaries wired to buck either the input or the output 
to give a somewhat lower output voltage if desired.

From gblock at sbcglobal.net  Tue Mar 11 09:41:47 2008
From: gblock at sbcglobal.net (Gerry Block (sbcglobal))
Date: Tue Mar 11 09:46:55 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Another idea for a loop supply transformer
Message-ID: <031120081441.1063.47D69A2A000DCAA10000042722230703729B0A02D2040E0D0104090C0D9CBF050C01040D09@att.net>

Ken I wouldn't recommend this as the insulation characteristics between two primary windings is not sufficient for safety reasons.  I would use the other recommended method - back to back filament transformers.  Much safer.

Gerry
-------------- Original message from Ken Schwieker <ksweek@mindspring.com>: -------------- 


> When building a ST-6 many years ago I used a transformer that had a 
> dual primary for 115 or 230 volt operation. The secondaries were used 
> for the low voltage and the second primary as a loop supply winding. 
> The total loads of the low voltage secondary and the new HV secondary 
> were checked to be sure they totaled less than half of the total 
> wattage that the transformer was rated for to prevent overloading of 
> the primary. Any sufficiently rated transformer can be used the same 
> way for a loop supply. 
> 
> The transformer used in my ST-6 is a Stancor P-6377. It has two 12 
> volt 2 amp secondary windings as well as the two 115 volt primary 
> ones. It made for a fairly compact ST-6. A link to a picture is 
> below. The outside transformer shell was lifted off of another 
> transformer for protection. 
> 
> http://www.mindspring.com/~ksweek/images/ST-6.jpg 
> 
> This or any other suitable transformer could have been used alone 
> with the two secondaries wired to buck either the input or the output 
> to give a somewhat lower output voltage if desired. 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> GreenKeys mailing list 
> GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net 
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys 
From gil at baudot.net  Tue Mar 11 10:04:50 2008
From: gil at baudot.net (gil smith)
Date: Tue Mar 11 10:09:54 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Another idea for a loop supply transformer
In-Reply-To: <031120081441.1063.47D69A2A000DCAA10000042722230703729B0A02
	D2040E0D0104090C0D9CBF050C01040D09@att.net>
References: <031120081441.1063.47D69A2A000DCAA10000042722230703729B0A02D2040E0D0104090C0D9CBF050C01040D09@att.net>
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20080311075419.02953f40@mail.vauxelectronics.com>


I use an isolation transformer with 115 output, and dual primaries for 115 
or 230 input.  Wired with primaries in parallel you get about 160VDC supply 
(after rectifier/filter).  I think this is unnecessarily high (more 
dangerous and hotter loop resistors).

Wire it with primaries in series, and you get a nice 80VDC loop 
supply.  Part 553-VPS230190 is $20 at mouser.com.


gil


At 07:41 AM 3/11/2008, Gerry Block (sbcglobal) wrote:
>Ken I wouldn't recommend this as the insulation characteristics between 
>two primary windings is not sufficient for safety reasons.  I would use 
>the other recommended method - back to back filament transformers.  Much safer.
>
>Gerry
>-------------- Original message from Ken Schwieker 
><ksweek@mindspring.com>: --------------
>
>
> > When building a ST-6 many years ago I used a transformer that had a
> > dual primary for 115 or 230 volt operation. The secondaries were used
> > for the low voltage and the second primary as a loop supply winding.
> > The total loads of the low voltage secondary and the new HV secondary
> > were checked to be sure they totaled less than half of the total
> > wattage that the transformer was rated for to prevent overloading of
> > the primary. Any sufficiently rated transformer can be used the same
> > way for a loop supply.
> >
> > The transformer used in my ST-6 is a Stancor P-6377. It has two 12
> > volt 2 amp secondary windings as well as the two 115 volt primary
> > ones. It made for a fairly compact ST-6. A link to a picture is
> > below. The outside transformer shell was lifted off of another
> > transformer for protection.
> >
> > http://www.mindspring.com/~ksweek/images/ST-6.jpg
> >
> > This or any other suitable transformer could have been used alone
> > with the two secondaries wired to buck either the input or the output
> > to give a somewhat lower output voltage if desired.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GreenKeys mailing list
> > GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>_______________________________________________
>GreenKeys mailing list
>GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
>http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys



Vaux Electronics, Inc.
480-354-5556
(fax: 480-354-5558)
www.vauxelectronics.com


From KC0NNC at aol.com  Tue Mar 11 10:13:02 2008
From: KC0NNC at aol.com (KC0NNC@aol.com)
Date: Tue Mar 11 10:18:03 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: failure notice
Message-ID: <d01.27e61eee.3507fb7e@aol.com>

I can understand Gil's frustration...  it happened to me on this blog... as I 
had visited the USS Missouri Radio Communications room in Hawaii, and did a 5 
page report to the greenkeys audience, regarding their TTY setup, problems 
found etc.etc. 


Only to realize weeks later it was blocked and lost in the "ether".
 
And I did not carbon it to myself, for future re-sending, if necessary...  oh 
well I learned to be sure and invoke "plain text" for future reports to the 
group if and when I do another....
 
73's guys, hope to be on the air soon.  Getting antennas up this month, it 
has been close to 50 years...  I hope the ham bands are still there, and will 
still accept rag chewers like me.
Harvey E. Smith
2020 Baculite Mesa Road
Pueblo, CO., 81001-2456
719 406 9735

fka WA0BBG
nka KC0NNC

HarveyEsmith@aol.com

KC0NNC@aol.com


73's



**************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & 
Finance.      (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)
From jones at cs.uiowa.edu  Tue Mar 11 10:19:06 2008
From: jones at cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones)
Date: Tue Mar 11 10:24:22 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Another idea for a loop supply transformer
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20080311075419.02953f40@mail.vauxelectronics.com>
References: <031120081441.1063.47D69A2A000DCAA10000042722230703729B0A02D2040E0D0104090C0D9CBF050C01040D09@att.net>
	<6.1.2.0.2.20080311075419.02953f40@mail.vauxelectronics.com>
Message-ID: <834A4360-2450-48AD-8041-9CA4BBF9E7BF@cs.uiowa.edu>


On Mar 11, 2008, at 10:04 AM, gil smith wrote:

> I use an isolation transformer with 115 output, and dual primaries
> for 115 or 230 input.  Wired with primaries in parallel you get
> about 160VDC supply (after rectifier/filter).

Eek!  Don't do this!  Wiring primaries or secondaries in parallel
when they're wound for different voltages is not, in general, a good
idea.

The 115 volt primary is trying to induce 230 volts on the 230 volt
primary, but it's connected to 115 volts.  As a result, you get
current flowing the wrong way in that primary.  In the worst case,
it's resistive limited, and you get a very hot transformer.  If you're
lucky (apparently you were), the high current saturates part of the
magnetic circuit, and you just get lower coupling from input to output.

		Doug Jones
		jones@cs.uiowa.edu
From comcents at bellsouth.net  Tue Mar 11 11:04:51 2008
From: comcents at bellsouth.net (Randy or Sherry Guttery)
Date: Tue Mar 11 11:10:01 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Another idea for a loop supply transformer
In-Reply-To: <834A4360-2450-48AD-8041-9CA4BBF9E7BF@cs.uiowa.edu>
References: <031120081441.1063.47D69A2A000DCAA10000042722230703729B0A02D2040E0D0104090C0D9CBF050C01040D09@att.net>	<6.1.2.0.2.20080311075419.02953f40@mail.vauxelectronics.com>
	<834A4360-2450-48AD-8041-9CA4BBF9E7BF@cs.uiowa.edu>
Message-ID: <47D6ADA3.5080007@bellsouth.net>


gil smith wrote:
> 
> I use an isolation transformer with 115 output, and dual primaries
> for 115 or 230 input.  Wired with primaries in parallel you get
> about 160VDC supply (after rectifier/filter).

To which Douglas W. Jones responded:

> Eek!  Don't do this!  Wiring primaries or secondaries in parallel
> when they're wound for different voltages is not, in general, a good
> idea.

The type of transformer Gil is talking about - this is fine. Many
transformers have two PRIMARY windings - both for 115V input. If you put
both windings in series (phased adding) you can then apply 230VAC across
the pair - and the transformer will provide the correct voltage(s) out.
If you put the two primaries in parallel - you can apply 115V and still
get the same output(s) from the secondary(s).  In Gil's example - he's
talking about a transformer with dual 115V primaries and a single 115V
secondary. By wiring the two primaries in series - but instead of
applying 230V as usual - apply only 115V - the 115V (rated) secondary
will only provide half the voltage - or 57.5V - since only half the
"expected" primary voltage is applied.  As he noted "further on" in his
post - since the secondary is now only supplying "half" - after
rectifying and filtering - you can expect around 80VDC for your loop
supply. This is a good solution if you don't have a "well stocked" junk
box.

For those of us with the spare (free) parts - the "back to back"
filament supply is quite attractive.

The circuit for a battery eliminator for a "farm sets" is on this page:

http://www.comcents.com/mhrs/theprsup.html

While this supply is way more "complicated" than needed for a TTY loop
supply - it shows "back to back" transformers in circuit - and can be
quite useful for other similar projects.

best regards...
-- 
randy guttery

A Tender Tale - a page dedicated to those Ships and Crews
so vital to the United States Silent Service:
http://tendertale.com

From comcents at bellsouth.net  Tue Mar 11 11:07:59 2008
From: comcents at bellsouth.net (Randy or Sherry Guttery)
Date: Tue Mar 11 11:13:10 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Another idea for a loop supply transformer
In-Reply-To: <47D6ADA3.5080007@bellsouth.net>
References: <031120081441.1063.47D69A2A000DCAA10000042722230703729B0A02D2040E0D0104090C0D9CBF050C01040D09@att.net>	<6.1.2.0.2.20080311075419.02953f40@mail.vauxelectronics.com>	<834A4360-2450-48AD-8041-9CA4BBF9E7BF@cs.uiowa.edu>
	<47D6ADA3.5080007@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <47D6AE5F.5010609@bellsouth.net>

Randy wrote:


> The circuit for a battery eliminator for a "farm sets" is on this page:
> 
> http://www.comcents.com/mhrs/theprsup.html


BTW - while you're there - you might want to hit the "Return to the 
Lobby" link at the bottom - and look over the rest of the site.  It's 
way old and out of date - but still - some people find it of interest as 
an example of early internet sites (last update was 12 years ago!!!). 
Since we now have (for all practical purposes) near unlimited on-line 
storage and serving capacity - it's "back" online for people to enjoy.

best regards...
-- 
randy guttery

A Tender Tale - a page dedicated to those Ships and Crews
so vital to the United States Silent Service:
http://tendertale.com
From nerd at verizon.net  Tue Mar 11 11:13:26 2008
From: nerd at verizon.net (Peter Gottlieb)
Date: Tue Mar 11 11:18:35 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Another idea for a loop supply transformer
In-Reply-To: <47D6ADA3.5080007@bellsouth.net>
References: <031120081441.1063.47D69A2A000DCAA10000042722230703729B0A02D2040E0D0104090C0D9CBF050C01040D09@att.net>
	<6.1.2.0.2.20080311075419.02953f40@mail.vauxelectronics.com>
	<834A4360-2450-48AD-8041-9CA4BBF9E7BF@cs.uiowa.edu>
	<47D6ADA3.5080007@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <47D6AFA6.30408@verizon.net>

Regarding isolation when using a dual primary transformer, not all 
transformers are a problem.  I just dissected a transformer for another 
project which consisted of a tape wound dual bobbin design with each 
primary on a different bobbin.  Isolation would be phenomenal.

For my loop supply I used a simple isolation transformer.  I accepted 
the 170 volts for the loop and built a constant current supply with 
integral switching and I must say the selector magnet operation is very 
crisp and clean.  The current waveform is very nice.  I could have made 
a little regulator to drop to 120 volts but since everything worked so 
well I didn't bother.  I keep my fingers out of the gears and off the 
selector magnet wiring ;-)

Peter


Randy or Sherry Guttery wrote:
>
> gil smith wrote:
>>
>> I use an isolation transformer with 115 output, and dual primaries
>> for 115 or 230 input.  Wired with primaries in parallel you get
>> about 160VDC supply (after rectifier/filter).
>
> To which Douglas W. Jones responded:
>
>> Eek!  Don't do this!  Wiring primaries or secondaries in parallel
>> when they're wound for different voltages is not, in general, a good
>> idea.
>
> The type of transformer Gil is talking about - this is fine. Many
> transformers have two PRIMARY windings - both for 115V input. If you put
> both windings in series (phased adding) you can then apply 230VAC across
> the pair - and the transformer will provide the correct voltage(s) out.
> If you put the two primaries in parallel - you can apply 115V and still
> get the same output(s) from the secondary(s).  In Gil's example - he's
> talking about a transformer with dual 115V primaries and a single 115V
> secondary. By wiring the two primaries in series - but instead of
> applying 230V as usual - apply only 115V - the 115V (rated) secondary
> will only provide half the voltage - or 57.5V - since only half the
> "expected" primary voltage is applied.  As he noted "further on" in his
> post - since the secondary is now only supplying "half" - after
> rectifying and filtering - you can expect around 80VDC for your loop
> supply. This is a good solution if you don't have a "well stocked" junk
> box.
>
> For those of us with the spare (free) parts - the "back to back"
> filament supply is quite attractive.
>
> The circuit for a battery eliminator for a "farm sets" is on this page:
>
> http://www.comcents.com/mhrs/theprsup.html
>
> While this supply is way more "complicated" than needed for a TTY loop
> supply - it shows "back to back" transformers in circuit - and can be
> quite useful for other similar projects.
>
> best regards...
From larryradio at worldnet.att.net  Tue Mar 11 11:39:42 2008
From: larryradio at worldnet.att.net (Larry Tighe)
Date: Tue Mar 11 11:46:51 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Loop Supply
Message-ID: <017a01c88396$8216e250$2000a8c0@ljt>

Enough already of this technical discussion on loop supplies!

I think I'll simply plug a bridge rectifier into my AC socket.  A nice 100 
watt lite bulb can limit the current for my magnets.

  Then, put the TTY machines on old wooden skids.  The radio gear is even 
simpler,,,,just cut off the ground pin on the plugs.

Simply jump up on the wooden skids so your not grounded and wah lah, you're 
on the air.

Phooey on transformers....they're for beginners!

lar
K2JIA
www.antiquetelephone.com 

From k9tty at dls.net  Tue Mar 11 12:25:53 2008
From: k9tty at dls.net (Don Robert House)
Date: Tue Mar 11 12:31:02 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Another idea for a loop supply transformer
In-Reply-To: <47D6ADA3.5080007@bellsouth.net>
References: <031120081441.1063.47D69A2A000DCAA10000042722230703729B0A02D2040E0D0104090C0D9CBF050C01040D09@att.net>	<6.1.2.0.2.20080311075419.02953f40@mail.vauxelectronics.com>
	<834A4360-2450-48AD-8041-9CA4BBF9E7BF@cs.uiowa.edu>
	<47D6ADA3.5080007@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <1103A8B2-6CAA-456A-AA9F-2C3E1AADDC2F@dls.net>

> Nice explanation! Even I can understand with 40 year old electronic  
> training
Don K9TTY

> Many transformers have two PRIMARY windings - both for 115V input.  
> If you put
> both windings in series (phased adding) you can then apply 230VAC  
> across
> the pair - and the transformer will provide the correct voltage(s)  
> out.
> If you put the two primaries in parallel - you can apply 115V and  
> still
> get the same output(s) from the secondary(s).  In Gil's example - he's
> talking about a transformer with dual 115V primaries and a single 115V
> secondary. By wiring the two primaries in series - but instead of
> applying 230V as usual - apply only 115V - the 115V (rated) secondary
> will only provide half the voltage - or 57.5V - since only half the
> "expected" primary voltage is applied.  As he noted "further on" in  
> his
> post - since the secondary is now only supplying "half" - after
> rectifying and filtering - you can expect around 80VDC for your loop
> supply. This is a good solution if you don't have a "well stocked"  
> junk
> box.
>
> For those of us with the spare (free) parts - the "back to back"
> filament supply is quite attractive.
>
> The circuit for a battery eliminator for a "farm sets" is on this  
> page:
>
> http://www.comcents.com/mhrs/theprsup.html
>
> While this supply is way more "complicated" than needed for a TTY loop
> supply - it shows "back to back" transformers in circuit - and can be
> quite useful for other similar projects.
>
> best regards...
> -- 
> randy guttery
>
> A Tender Tale - a page dedicated to those Ships and Crews
> so vital to the United States Silent Service:
> http://tendertale.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys

From wb5hak at martineer.net  Tue Mar 11 15:03:55 2008
From: wb5hak at martineer.net (Don Cunningham)
Date: Tue Mar 11 15:09:03 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: failure notice
References: <d01.27e61eee.3507fb7e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <00c601c883b3$0968d8f0$0201a8c0@SunroomComputer>

Harvey,
Just don't give up the first day or two if you don't stir up a bunch.  An 
awful lot of the RTTY activity nowadays is contest activity, but THERE ARE 
some of us old curmudgeons that LOVE to ragchew, you just have to be 
persistent till we show up, hi.  I am putting up a tower and my quad (again, 
long story) and should be there in a few weeks myself.
73,
Don, WB5HAK 

From kf6pqt at gmail.com  Tue Mar 11 17:18:05 2008
From: kf6pqt at gmail.com (kf6pqt)
Date: Tue Mar 11 17:23:22 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] USS Missouri Radio (and tty) Room
Message-ID: <a9c11e690803111518y67ee3685t83a4c6a5615aef7c@mail.gmail.com>

>>as I
>>had visited the USS Missouri Radio Communications room in Hawaii, and did a 5
>>page report to the greenkeys audience, regarding their TTY setup, problems
>>found etc.etc.


I was in there just last month!  Only for about three minutes though,
long enough to snap a bunch of pictures. I hope to find some spare
time to post said pictures, and I will definitely let this group know
when I do.

73,
Jason kf6pqt


-- 
--... ...-- -.. . -.- ..-. -.... .--. --.- -
AMI #1625 SKCC #3768
http://kf6pqt.net
From ham at cq.nu  Tue Mar 11 17:24:34 2008
From: ham at cq.nu (Bob Camp)
Date: Tue Mar 11 17:29:46 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Loop Supply
In-Reply-To: <017a01c88396$8216e250$2000a8c0@ljt>
References: <017a01c88396$8216e250$2000a8c0@ljt>
Message-ID: <7DB1C1E2-1B09-4351-84C5-47A817575477@cq.nu>

Hi

So what's the matter with the "normal"  approach. 100 wet cell nicads  
wired in series?

Float charge them in banks off of the phone line ....

Bob


On Mar 11, 2008, at 12:39 PM, Larry Tighe wrote:

> Enough already of this technical discussion on loop supplies!
>
> I think I'll simply plug a bridge rectifier into my AC socket.  A  
> nice 100 watt lite bulb can limit the current for my magnets.
>
> Then, put the TTY machines on old wooden skids.  The radio gear is  
> even simpler,,,,just cut off the ground pin on the plugs.
>
> Simply jump up on the wooden skids so your not grounded and wah lah,  
> you're on the air.
>
> Phooey on transformers....they're for beginners!
>
> lar
> K2JIA
> www.antiquetelephone.com
> _______________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>

From comcents at bellsouth.net  Tue Mar 11 17:36:53 2008
From: comcents at bellsouth.net (Randy or Sherry Guttery)
Date: Tue Mar 11 17:42:06 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Loop Supply
In-Reply-To: <7DB1C1E2-1B09-4351-84C5-47A817575477@cq.nu>
References: <017a01c88396$8216e250$2000a8c0@ljt>
	<7DB1C1E2-1B09-4351-84C5-47A817575477@cq.nu>
Message-ID: <47D70985.9080605@bellsouth.net>


First -  Larry Tighe wrote:
> 
> Enough already of this technical discussion on loop supplies!
> I think I'll simply plug a bridge rectifier into my AC socket.  A  
> nice 100 watt lite bulb can limit the current for my magnets.
> Then, put the TTY machines on old wooden skids.  The radio gear is  
> even simpler,,,,just cut off the ground pin on the plugs.
> Simply jump up on the wooden skids so your not grounded and wah lah,  
> you're on the air.
> Phooey on transformers....they're for beginners!

Then Bob Camp wrote:

 > So what's the matter with the "normal"  approach. 100 wet cell nicads
 > wired in series?
 >
 > Float charge them in banks off of the phone line ....


Uh-huh - [sniff] That's what I thought - George - I told you to keep 
that jug hid - now look what you've done...  these boys done got the 
sillies... ;-)
-- 
randy guttery

A Tender Tale - a page dedicated to those Ships and Crews
so vital to the United States Silent Service:
http://tendertale.com
From larryradio at worldnet.att.net  Tue Mar 11 18:20:17 2008
From: larryradio at worldnet.att.net (Larry Tighe)
Date: Tue Mar 11 18:25:37 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Loop Supply
References: <017a01c88396$8216e250$2000a8c0@ljt>
	<7DB1C1E2-1B09-4351-84C5-47A817575477@cq.nu>
Message-ID: <008101c883ce$79eb6230$0200a8c0@LARRYTIGHE>

Did ya know, there's a law against using the current from a phone line to 
charge batteries???  I guess somewhere along the "line", telco figured out 
folks were charging by avoiding "picking" the L or line relay.....just 
enough current to trickle the batteries but not pick the L relay and bring 
up "supervision".

Telco did supply DC on a seperate pair for charging batteries, ringing 
voltage too, for small PBX's.

I have other important things to tell like the above....but enuf for now!

lar

Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 18:24
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Loop Supply


> Hi
>
> So what's the matter with the "normal"  approach. 100 wet cell nicads 
> wired in series?
>
> Float charge them in banks off of the phone line ....
>
> Bob
>
>
> On Mar 11, 2008, at 12:39 PM, Larry Tighe wrote:
>
>> Enough already of this technical discussion on loop supplies!
>>
>> I think I'll simply plug a bridge rectifier into my AC socket.  A  nice 
>> 100 watt lite bulb can limit the current for my magnets.
>>
>> Then, put the TTY machines on old wooden skids.  The radio gear is  even 
>> simpler,,,,just cut off the ground pin on the plugs.
>>
>> Simply jump up on the wooden skids so your not grounded and wah lah, 
>> you're on the air.
>>
>> Phooey on transformers....they're for beginners!
>>
>> lar
>> K2JIA

From wa7duy at charter.net  Tue Mar 11 19:12:18 2008
From: wa7duy at charter.net (Jim Pruitt)
Date: Tue Mar 11 19:17:29 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Need DS3000 replacement keyboard pushbutton switch
	information
Message-ID: <1729801c883d5$bc7eabf0$6401a8c0@PRUITT1>

I broke one of the keyboard keys on my Hal DS3000.  It is the Z key but I
have the keytop.  Half of the pushbutton separated from the bottom half but
the little retaining dawg on one side came off so the top half will not stay
in place.

Can someone tell me what  commercial pushbutton I can order to replace that
or where I can find a replacement switch?  Will a pushbutton from an old PC
keyboard work?  They look shorter than the DS3000 keyes but bigger
pushbuttons are getting harder to find.

Thank you.

Jim Pruitt

From k9tty at dls.net  Tue Mar 11 20:39:00 2008
From: k9tty at dls.net (Don Robert House)
Date: Tue Mar 11 20:44:12 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Loop Supply
In-Reply-To: <7DB1C1E2-1B09-4351-84C5-47A817575477@cq.nu>
References: <017a01c88396$8216e250$2000a8c0@ljt>
	<7DB1C1E2-1B09-4351-84C5-47A817575477@cq.nu>
Message-ID: <14D30002-A890-4276-90B0-BA95F529F5E4@dls.net>

let me see if my old brain is working...

nicad batteries are 1.25 volts each times 100 equals 125 volts DC

Hmmm... John Burch (SK) would get a kick out of this discussion...

Normal charging voltage for 48 volt CO cells is 52 volts.
Without involving some extra help from George S. Ohm it might be  
easier to use three banks of 35 cells
35 x 1.25 = 44 volt bank x 3 = 132 volts.  Taking into account an  
average loop length of 1000 feet of 24 AWG wire with a resistance of . 
0302 per foot x 1000 = 30.2 Ohms In theory the CO power plant would  
provide about 1.7 amps for charging. #24 wire will also support this  
amount of amperage... However the CO line link circuit limits current  
flow in the loop to somewhere between 20 and 40 milliamps. This being  
considered it would be impractical to try to sustain a 62.5 milliamp  
loop for selector magnets and try to keep 105 nicads charged up.

Back to studying for my General exam.

Don K9TTY


On Mar 11, 2008, at 6:24 PM, Bob Camp wrote:

> Hi
>
> So what's the matter with the "normal"  approach. 100 wet cell  
> nicads wired in series?
>
> Float charge them in banks off of the phone line ....
>
> Bob
>
>
> On Mar 11, 2008, at 12:39 PM, Larry Tighe wrote:
>
>> Enough already of this technical discussion on loop supplies!
>>
>> I think I'll simply plug a bridge rectifier into my AC socket.  A  
>> nice 100 watt lite bulb can limit the current for my magnets.
>>
>> Then, put the TTY machines on old wooden skids.  The radio gear is  
>> even simpler,,,,just cut off the ground pin on the plugs.
>>
>> Simply jump up on the wooden skids so your not grounded and wah  
>> lah, you're on the air.
>>
>> Phooey on transformers....they're for beginners!
>>
>> lar
>> K2JIA
>> www.antiquetelephone.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> GreenKeys mailing list
>> GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
>> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys

From ueoguy at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 12 01:04:18 2008
From: ueoguy at yahoo.com (UEOGUY)
Date: Wed Mar 12 01:09:28 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Loop Supply
Message-ID: <228329.9117.qm@web31804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Wow!  That was the logic behind the "black box", which allowed conversation to a called number, between the ring cycles, by making the connection, without tripping the ring!   The good old days when they had Phone Police!  And every phone savvy person would disconnect the ringers in phone so they could have extra extensions!  I always wondered how they current limited a single phone line.  I've seen the Submarine cell batteries used, the solid copper buss bars,  the rotary DC generators, and solid state rectifiers used in the old No.5 XBAR central offices to charge the batteries, I guess it was those ballast tubes, that limited the current in the line relays.  Wonder what they use now?
Bob

----- Original Message ----
From: Larry Tighe <larryradio@worldnet.att.net>
To: Bob Camp <ham@cq.nu>
Cc: greenkeys@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 7:20:17 PM
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Loop Supply

Did  ya  know,  there's  a  law  against  using  the  current  from  a  phone  line  to 
charge  batteries???   I  guess  somewhere  along  the  "line",  telco  figured  out 
folks  were  charging  by  avoiding  "picking"  the  L  or  line  relay.....just 
enough  current  to  trickle  the  batteries  but  not  pick  the  L  relay  and  bring 
up  "supervision".

Telco  did  supply  DC  on  a  seperate  pair  for  charging  batteries,  ringing 
voltage  too,  for  small  PBX's.

I  have  other  important  things  to  tell  like  the  above....but  enuf  for  now!

lar

Sent:  Tuesday,  March  11,  2008  18:24
Subject:  Re:  [GreenKeys]  Loop  Supply


>  Hi
>
>  So  what's  the  matter  with  the  "normal"   approach.  100  wet  cell  nicads 
>  wired  in  series?
>
>  Float  charge  them  in  banks  off  of  the  phone  line  ....
>
>  Bob
>
>
>  On  Mar  11,  2008,  at  12:39  PM,  Larry  Tighe  wrote:
>
>>  Enough  already  of  this  technical  discussion  on  loop  supplies!
>>
>>  I  think  I'll  simply  plug  a  bridge  rectifier  into  my  AC  socket.   A   nice 
>>  100  watt  lite  bulb  can  limit  the  current  for  my  magnets.
>>
>>  Then,  put  the  TTY  machines  on  old  wooden  skids.   The  radio  gear  is   even 
>>  simpler,,,,just  cut  off  the  ground  pin  on  the  plugs.
>>
>>  Simply  jump  up  on  the  wooden  skids  so  your  not  grounded  and  wah  lah, 
>>  you're  on  the  air.
>>
>>  Phooey  on  transformers....they're  for  beginners!
>>
>>  lar
>>  K2JIA

_______________________________________________
GreenKeys  mailing  list
GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys







      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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From s.hallas at ntlworld.com  Wed Mar 12 05:27:16 2008
From: s.hallas at ntlworld.com (Sam Hallas)
Date: Wed Mar 12 05:32:29 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Loop Supply
In-Reply-To: <228329.9117.qm@web31804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <228329.9117.qm@web31804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <47D7B004.9010404@ntlworld.com>

UEOGUY wrote:
>  Wow!  That was the logic behind the "black box", which allowed
>  conversation to a called number, between the ring cycles, by making
>  the connection, without tripping the ring!   The good old days when
>  they had Phone Police!  And every phone savvy person would disconnect
>  the ringers in phone so they could have extra extensions!  I always
>  wondered how they current limited a single phone line.  I've seen the
>  Submarine cell batteries used, the solid copper buss bars,  the
>  rotary DC generators, and solid state rectifiers used in the old No.5
>  XBAR central offices to charge the batteries, I guess it was those
>  ballast tubes, that limited the current in the line relays.  Wonder
>  what they use now? Bob
>

The usual circuit arrangement for line feeding was two 250 ohm relay 
coils, one in each leg fed from -48v and ground. On the shortest of 
lines this would limit the current to 100 mA, but a typical carbon 
microphone circuit would only draw 20-40 mA. Loop resistance might be up 
to 1000 ohms too, so even less current available. These days it's all 
electronic with limited current feeds.

Some of the early push-button phones contained a NiCd battery which was 
charged from the line, but the current had to be pretty low to avoid 
operating the line relay, say less than 10 mA.
Cheers,
Sam
From gil at baudot.net  Wed Mar 12 10:23:19 2008
From: gil at baudot.net (gil smith)
Date: Wed Mar 12 10:28:29 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Ransom Slayton's Teletype Museum Tour
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20080312081130.0264be70@mail.vauxelectronics.com>

Hi folks:

You may remember seeing the Teletype Museum Tour narrated by Ransom 
Slayton.  The narration is at:
<www.baudot.net/docs/slayton--tty-museum.pdf>

Some of us got a DVD of the slide-show tour, which a fellow was sending out 
about a year ago.  It was great to hear the actual sound of Mr. Slayton's 
voice, and see some of the early and unusual machines, but the slides on 
the video were rather dark, and difficult to see.

I have since received a copy of the slide set, scanned from the original 
slides, which are at the IEEE History center -- a big thanks to Maryann 
Hoffman, who had been planning to get me a copy for a couple of years.  It 
took some time to procure a scanner, and actually get the scanning done, 
but it was definitely worth the wait.

Now, I want to re-create the slide show, using the audio from the DVD, and 
the high-quality scans from the original slides.  A good project for my new 
mac.

I'll let you know when I get it done.  Pretty cool to find something tucked 
away for so many years!

gil






Vaux Electronics, Inc.
480-354-5556
(fax: 480-354-5558)
www.vauxelectronics.com


From duncanancy at earthlink.net  Wed Mar 12 13:19:53 2008
From: duncanancy at earthlink.net (Duncan M. Brown)
Date: Wed Mar 12 13:25:03 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Ransom Slayton's Teletype Museum Tour
Message-ID: <380-220083312181953211@earthlink.net>

Gil,

Great news on finally getting the slides!!

The AWA Museum was one of the recipients of the Teletype Museum when it was
disbanded.

I have been able to identify the following items from the Teletype Museum:
-Kleinschmidt Electric Model 20A tape printer (multiple magnets, no motor)
-GPE perforator
-TT-30/AGA-1 version of M31 (with dynamotor & 26L6 electronic motor speed
control)
-M36 Monopulse keyboard.

If you need any pictures of these items for the new tour, let me know and I
can get them for you.

[I just looked at DVD of Slayton's tour, and the KEC 20A is not mentioned
in it.  The 20A looks like the 21A, but in the KEC 5 chassis, probably an
early version of the 21A.  The dynamotor version of the M31 is also not
part of the original tour.  But if you want to squeeze them in, I'd be glad
to provide pictures.]

Duncan Brown, K2OEQ

Chief TTY operator & repairman
AWA Electronic Communication Museum
http://www.antiquewireless.org/


> [Original Message]
> From: gil smith <gil@baudot.net>
> To: <greenkeys@mailman.qth.net>
> Date: 12-Mar-08 11:23:18
> Subject: [GreenKeys] Ransom Slayton's Teletype Museum Tour
>
> Hi folks:
>
> You may remember seeing the Teletype Museum Tour narrated by Ransom 
> Slayton.  The narration is at:
> <www.baudot.net/docs/slayton--tty-museum.pdf>
>
> Some of us got a DVD of the slide-show tour, which a fellow was sending
out 
> about a year ago.  It was great to hear the actual sound of Mr. Slayton's 
> voice, and see some of the early and unusual machines, but the slides on 
> the video were rather dark, and difficult to see.
>
> I have since received a copy of the slide set, scanned from the original 
> slides, which are at the IEEE History center -- a big thanks to Maryann 
> Hoffman, who had been planning to get me a copy for a couple of years. 
It 
> took some time to procure a scanner, and actually get the scanning done, 
> but it was definitely worth the wait.
>
> Now, I want to re-create the slide show, using the audio from the DVD,
and 
> the high-quality scans from the original slides.  A good project for my
new 
> mac.
>
> I'll let you know when I get it done.  Pretty cool to find something
tucked 
> away for so many years!
>
> gil
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Vaux Electronics, Inc.
> 480-354-5556
> (fax: 480-354-5558)
> www.vauxelectronics.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys


From k9tty at dls.net  Wed Mar 12 14:29:41 2008
From: k9tty at dls.net (k9tty@dls.net)
Date: Wed Mar 12 14:34:56 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Ransom Slayton's Teletype Museum Tour
Message-ID: <49362.1205350181@dls.net>

WONDERFUL NEWS GIL

I will be anxiously waiting news of the availability.

Don
K9TTY

On Wed 12/03/08 10:23 AM , gil smith gil@baudot.net sent:
> Hi folks:
> 
> You may remember seeing the Teletype Museum Tour narrated by Ransom 
> Slayton.  The narration is at:
> www.baudot.net/docs/slayton--tty-museum.pdf>
> Some of us got a DVD of the slide-show tour, which a fellow was sending out
> about a year ago.  It was great to hear the actual sound of Mr. Slayton's
> voice, and see some of the early and unusual machines, but the slides on
> the video were rather dark, and difficult to see.
> 
> I have since received a copy of the slide set, scanned from the original
> slides, which are at the IEEE History center -- a big thanks to Maryann
> Hoffman, who had been planning to get me a copy for a couple of years.  It
> took some time to procure a scanner, and actually get the scanning done,
> but it was definitely worth the wait.
> 
> Now, I want to re-create the slide show, using the audio from the DVD, and
> the high-quality scans from the original slides.  A good project for my new
> mac.
> 
> I'll let you know when I get it done.  Pretty cool to find something tucked
> away for so many years!
> 
> gil
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vaux Electronics, Inc.
> 480-354-5556
> (fax: 480-354-5558)
> www.vauxelectronic
> s.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Gre
> enKeys@mailman.qth.nethttp://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> 
> 



From gil at vauxelectronics.com  Thu Mar 13 11:45:58 2008
From: gil at vauxelectronics.com (gil smith)
Date: Thu Mar 13 11:51:23 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] program to make large letters from ascii, or ascii art
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20080313093050.0271aec0@mail.vauxelectronics.com>

Hi folks:

Does anyone have a link to a program that makes large letters from ascii 
characters?  Something that lets me enter a string like "GREENKEYS" and 
have it generate an acsii file image of large characters -- like the 
3-inch-high chars the university line printers put at the beginning of my 
fortran job runs.

I am taking some tty machines to my cub scout meeting this afternoon (I am 
a den leader for eleven second graders), and I wanted to print a little 
greeting.  An ascii art file might be good too if anyone has a short one (I 
only have baudot ones here), but I thought the boys would like to see
HELLO
WOLF
DEN 4
print out in big letters as they are arriving.

It needs to be ascii, since I and sending to my M15 through my laptop's usb 
adapter, and it does not support 5-bit mode for heavymetal or rttyart.  But 
usb works just fine using HyperTerminal or other aciii terminal emulator 
(and letting TTY-Connect convert to baudot).  I can just do an ascii file 
transfer and let it go to town.

thanks in advance,

gil





Vaux Electronics, Inc.
480-354-5556
(fax: 480-354-5558)
www.vauxelectronics.com


From sschlink at mindspring.com  Thu Mar 13 11:57:38 2008
From: sschlink at mindspring.com (Steve Schlink)
Date: Thu Mar 13 12:03:08 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] program to make large letters from ascii, or ascii art
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20080313093050.0271aec0@mail.vauxelectronics.com
 >
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20080313115542.00b7fe88@pop.mindspring.com>

Gil,

Sounds like the 'banner' command in unix:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banner_(Unix)

You might search for a Winblows version, if that's what you laptop is running.

Steve

At 09:45 AM 3/13/2008 -0700, gil smith wrote:
>Hi folks:
>
>Does anyone have a link to a program that makes large letters from ascii 
>characters?  Something that lets me enter a string like "GREENKEYS" and 
>have it generate an acsii file image of large characters -- like the 
>3-inch-high chars the university line printers put at the beginning of my 
>fortran job runs.
>
>I am taking some tty machines to my cub scout meeting this afternoon (I am 
>a den leader for eleven second graders), and I wanted to print a little 
>greeting.  An ascii art file might be good too if anyone has a short one 
>(I only have baudot ones here), but I thought the boys would like to see
>HELLO
>WOLF
>DEN 4
>print out in big letters as they are arriving.
>
>It needs to be ascii, since I and sending to my M15 through my laptop's 
>usb adapter, and it does not support 5-bit mode for heavymetal or 
>rttyart.  But usb works just fine using HyperTerminal or other aciii 
>terminal emulator (and letting TTY-Connect convert to baudot).  I can just 
>do an ascii file transfer and let it go to town.
>
>thanks in advance,
>
>gil
>
>
>
>
>
>Vaux Electronics, Inc.
>480-354-5556
>(fax: 480-354-5558)
>www.vauxelectronics.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>GreenKeys mailing list
>GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
>http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>
>
>--
>Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
>Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 
>269.21.5/1314 - Release Date: 3/5/2008 6:38 PM

From gil at vauxelectronics.com  Thu Mar 13 12:56:58 2008
From: gil at vauxelectronics.com (gil smith)
Date: Thu Mar 13 13:02:18 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] program to make large letters from ascii, or ascii art
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.1.00.0803131154330.2774@Frances>
References: <6.1.2.0.2.20080313093050.0271aec0@mail.vauxelectronics.com>
	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803131154330.2774@Frances>
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20080313105234.0270fec0@mail.vauxelectronics.com>

Hi Jim:

Wow, I had no idea so many folks had done this banner stuff.  I found one I 
liked, and an art file of a howling wolf too.  Had to stay away from 
anything with ascii chars that don't convert well to baudot.  Here it is 
(you need to view it in monospace font):



OOOOOO   OOOOOO     OOOO   .OOOOOO.   OOOOO        OOOOOOOOOOOO
  '888.    '888.     .8'   D8P'  'Y8B  '888'        '888'     '8
   '888.   .8888.   .8'   888      888  888          888
    '888  .8''888. .8'    888      888  888          888OOOO8
     '888.8'  '888.8'     888      888  888          888    "
      '888'    '888'      '88B    D88'  888       O  888
       '8'      '8'        'Y8BOOD8P'  O888OOOOOOD8 O888O



OOOOOOOOOO.   OOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOO      OOO          .O
'888'   'Y8B  '888'     '8 '888B.     '8'        .D88
  888      888  888          8 '88B.    8       .D'888
  888      888  888OOOO8     8   '88B.  8     .D'  888
  888      888  888    "     8     '88B.8     88OOO888OO
  888     D88'  888       O  8       '888          888
O888BOOD8P'   O888OOOOOOD8 O8O        '8         O888O



OOOOOOOOO.     .OOOOOO.     .OOOOOO.   OOOO    OOOO  .OOOOOO..O
'888   'Y88.  D8P'  'Y8B   D8P'  'Y8B  '888   .8P'  D8P'    'Y8
  888   .D88' 888      888 888           888  D8'    Y88BO.
  888OOO88P'  888      888 888           88888[       '"Y8888O.
  888'88B.    888      888 888           888'88B.         '"Y88B
  888  '88B.  '88B    D88' '88B    OOO   888  '88B.  OO     .D8P
O888O  O888O  'Y8BOOD8P'   'Y8BOOD8P'  O888O  O888O 8""88888P'



MARCH 13, 2008

WOLF DEN 4 -- PACK 371, MESA, AZ

THIS LETTER WAS PRINTED ON A TELETYPE MODEL 15 PAGE PRINTER' THE
DESIGN OF WHICH DATES TO THE EARLY 1930S.  THIS ACTUAL MACHINE WAS
PRODUCED IN ABOUT THE LATE 1940S.  THIS PAPER IS PRETTY OLD TOO.
THE MODEL 15 AND THE MILITARY VERSION TG-7 WERE THE WORKHORSE
MACHINES FOR NEWSWIRE SERVICES AND MILITARY COMMUNICATIONS
FOR OVER TWO DECADES.  THESE MACHINES USED THE 5-BIT BAUDOT CODE
WHICH DATES TO AROUND 1874.  THE BAUDOT CODE SURVIVES TODAY AS THE
STANDARD FOR TTY MACHINES FOR THE DEAF.

FOR MANY YEARS WEATHER' OR WX' WAS POUNDED OUT AROUND THE WORLD ON
TELETYPE MACHINES SUCH AS THIS ONE.  WEATHER REPORTS FOR TODAY AT
FALCON FIELD AND SKY HARBOR AIRPORTS FOLLOW-

METAR SPECI KFFZ 131550Z 04008KT 35SM BKN250 16/01 A2995

METAR KPHX 131551Z 11007KT 10SM FEW150 BKN200 BKN250 17/02 A2994 RMK AO2 
SLP127 T01720022

TAF KPHX 131139Z 131212 09007KT P6SM BKN250
          FM1800 14007KT P6SM OVC250
          TEMPO 1822 VRB06KT
          FM2200 26010G20KT P6SM OVC250
          TEMPO 2201 27015G25KT
          FM0400 27010KT P6SM BKN250
          TEMPO 0812 VRB06KT=

A BIT OF HISTORY FROM WWW.BAUDOT.NET



               :"..    T:
              ";$;:..   II.
             $I::;":;;$T"I;".
             $;;;$;I.;;:IT$$I;
           ;X  T$"$";;I;"IITT$V
           :T  "II$.".;:"$II$$IIY
           :R   I"TI$"$;I$I"T"$$:$II$""
           :R  .$III"";;ITT"$$I"I::"YRBBBMRRVY$;
            ;$    $I$;$;$ITIIITII$I$I ."IYVII$IITI";"
    $. ::.X:.;   .:";$"I"II$$YYIIIIIIT.  ;YI::$:;"IIT""";
   I;:. .  :$:YI;R..";;"I$TITIVITIYVYYYXVX"$:.....;;$T"$::"
   $I;.::......:;:";;;;;"$III"$"$$II$$TTTVI""";;;;::;;$;TTI"
    TI$.::::.;::;:"$$$I"$;I$$ITITTTITIITT";"T$"";:;::;:;"$IY":
     :"I;::.::::;":;$$"I""";IIITTITTTTTITT";";:;;...::;::;.;$II:;
       :"$::.;$I$T$$ITIIIY"RRRXXV$VYI""":::;;:.:.........::;;;:;;;;:;;;;
           :TYTI";"$;$;"$$$";IIVRRRRVVRXRYYYV";"::::..........:.:""$I"";;"";;:
             ;XTI;";$I;$TI$$"$TRBBBYBVRYXIVTYY$$"..:........:.;;::"";::;.;;;
               YVI"";$$:I;;II$IRXIYIY":;I;I;";;;;;.........;:::;:;";..:;::
               :"XI"$IITIIIT":IXRRIITIXIIYIIT;I"":.......:..:....;:........
               :BWRRV;YRIXY...$YRRVYVR$XIRITITI$$":.....;:.........:....:.::..
              ""$RWBXTIRRV$.$IIYRBYBRRYYIRI;VITI;";..........:::.::;::::...;;;:.
                   BY PAUL FAWCETT <PAULF@MANOR.DEMON.CO.UK>
                   TWEAKED FOR BAUDOT BY GIL SMITH


At 09:54 AM 3/13/2008, you wrote:
>google   ascii banner
>
>
>



Vaux Electronics, Inc.
480-354-5556
(fax: 480-354-5558)
www.vauxelectronics.com


From gil at baudot.net  Thu Mar 13 13:39:15 2008
From: gil at baudot.net (gil smith)
Date: Thu Mar 13 13:44:35 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] M15 unshift-on-space
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20080313113623.0271aec0@mail.vauxelectronics.com>

Hi folks:

Help!   I don't have an M15 manual handy, and I need to disable 
unshift-on-space.  It's a little screw-set lever thingy if I recall -- 
anyone give me the quick tutorial?

Running out of time since I need to print out a dozen copies at 10-minutes 
each, and I barely have enough time.

thanks,

gil




Vaux Electronics, Inc.
480-354-5556
(fax: 480-354-5558)
www.vauxelectronics.com


From paulpenn at knology.net  Thu Mar 13 13:48:07 2008
From: paulpenn at knology.net (Paul A. Pennington)
Date: Thu Mar 13 13:53:30 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] M15 unshift-on-space
References: <6.1.2.0.2.20080313113623.0271aec0@mail.vauxelectronics.com>
Message-ID: <000801c8853a$c7d52090$6401a8c0@A31PAUL>

    Gil;

    As always, Google is your friend.  Search for:

    unshift on space 15

    The first hit has the picture you need.

    Paul Pennington
    Augusta, Georgia
From wa2hwj at att.net  Thu Mar 13 13:49:05 2008
From: wa2hwj at att.net (wa2hwj@att.net)
Date: Thu Mar 13 13:54:27 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] M15 unshift-on-space
Message-ID: <031320081849.5312.47D97720000AF5E2000014C022230704929B0A02D29B9B0EBF069908CD0E99@att.net>

Looking at the front of the typing unit, lower middle, you'll see a small
protruding lever...it is "j" shaped and goes back underneath. The screw can
be loosened and the lever turned aside to disable/enable the UOS feature. This
part is sometimes missing on some 15's. 

Jack

-------------- Original message from gil smith <gil@baudot.net>: -------------- 


> Hi folks: 
> 
> Help! I don't have an M15 manual handy, and I need to disable 
> unshift-on-space. It's a little screw-set lever thingy if I recall -- 
> anyone give me the quick tutorial? 
> 
> Running out of time since I need to print out a dozen copies at 10-minutes 
> each, and I barely have enough time. 
> 
> thanks, 
> 
> gil 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vaux Electronics, Inc. 
> 480-354-5556 
> (fax: 480-354-5558) 
> www.vauxelectronics.com 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> GreenKeys mailing list 
> GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net 
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys 
From teletype at buzbee.net  Thu Mar 13 20:02:54 2008
From: teletype at buzbee.net (teletype@buzbee.net)
Date: Thu Mar 13 20:08:17 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] program to make large letters from ascii, or ascii art
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20080313093050.0271aec0@mail.vauxelectronics.com>
References: <6.1.2.0.2.20080313093050.0271aec0@mail.vauxelectronics.com>
Message-ID: <000301c8856f$2248ce80$6400a8c0@Jupiter>

Gil,
   Old Unix banner program will give you large messages running
left-to-right across the page.  For HeavyMetal, though, I wanted even larger
messages printed out lengthwise on the page.  For that, I ran across a
program called "fabs".

   Here's an example of banner output:


 h    h  eeeeee  l       l        oooo
 h    h  e       l       l       o    o
 hhhhhh  eeeee   l       l       o    o
 h    h  e       l       l       o    o
 h    h  e       l       l       o    o
 h    h  eeeeee  llllll  llllll   oooo 

...and here's "Hello" from fabs:



                  #####                                #####
                  #::::#                              #::::#
                  #:::::##############################:::::#
                  #::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::#
                  #::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::#
                  ##################::::::##################
                                    #::::#
                                    #::::#
                                    #::::#
                                    #::::#
                  ##################::::::##################
                  #::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::#
                  #::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::#
                  #:::::##############################:::::#
                  #::::#                              #::::#
                  #####                                #####

                           ############
                        ###::::::::::::###
                     ###::::::::::::::::::##
                   ##::::#####::::::#####:::###
                  #:::::#     #::::#     #:::::#
                  #::::#      #::::#      #::::#
                  #::::#      #::::#      #::::#
                  #::::#      #::::#     #:::::#
                  #::::#      #:::::#####:::###
                  #::::#      #::::::::::###
                  #::::#      #:::::::###
                   ######     ########

                  #####                                #####
                  #::::#                              #::::#
                  #:::::##############################:::::#
                  #::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::#
                  #::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::#
                  #:::::####################################
                  #::::#
                  #####

                  #####                                #####
                  #::::#                              #::::#
                  #:::::##############################:::::#
                  #::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::#
                  #::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::#
                  #:::::####################################
                  #::::#
                  #####

                           ############
                        ###::::::::::::###
                     ###::::::::::::::::::###
                   ##:::::##############:::::##
                  #:::::##              ##:::::#
                  #::::#                  #::::#
                  #::::#                  #::::#
                  #:::::##              ##:::::#
                   ##:::::##############:::::##
                     ###::::::::::::::::::###
                        ###::::::::::::###
                           ############

           
           
           
You can find fabs bundled in the latest HeavyMetal distribution:

http://www.buzbee.net/heavymetal/hm_2_4.zip

The old Unix banner program follows:

/* banner - print a banner		Author: Brian Wallis */

/*****************************************************************
 *
 * SYSVbanner.c
 *
 * This is a PD version of the SYS V banner program (at least I think
 * it is compatible to SYS V) which I wrote to use with the clock
 * program written by:
 **     DCF, Inc.
 **     14623 North 49th Place
 **     Scottsdale, AZ 85254
 * and published in the net comp.sources.misc newsgroup in early July
 * since the BSD banner program works quite differently.
 *
 * There is no copyright or responsibility accepted for the use
 * of this software.
 *
 * Brian Wallis, brw@jim.odr.oz, 4 July 1988
 *
 *****************************************************************/

#include <string.h>
#include <stdio.h>

_PROTOTYPE(int main, (int argc, char **argv));

char *glyphs[] = {
	  "         @@@  @@   @@  @ @   @@@@@          @@     @@@  ",
	  "         @@@  @@   @@  @ @  @  @  @@@   @  @  @    @@@  ",
	  "         @@@   @   @ @@@@@@@@  @   @@  @    @@      @   ",
	  "          @            @ @   @@@@@    @    @@@     @    ",
	  "                     @@@@@@@   @  @  @    @   @ @       ",
	  "         @@@           @ @  @  @  @ @  @@ @    @        ",
	  "         @@@           @ @   @@@@@ @   @@  @@@@ @       ",

	  "   @@    @@                                            @",
	  "  @        @   @   @    @                             @ ",
	  " @          @   @ @     @                            @  ",
	  " @          @ @@@@@@@ @@@@@   @@@   @@@@@           @   ",
	  " @          @   @ @     @     @@@                  @    ",
	  "  @        @   @   @    @      @            @@@   @     ",
	  "   @@    @@                   @             @@@  @      ",

	  "  @@@     @    @@@@@  @@@@@ @      @@@@@@@ @@@@@ @@@@@@@",
	  " @   @   @@   @     @@     @@    @ @      @     @@    @ ",
	  "@   @ @ @ @         @      @@    @ @      @          @  ",
	  "@  @  @   @    @@@@@  @@@@@ @@@@@@@ @@@@@ @@@@@@    @   ",
	  "@ @   @   @   @            @     @       @@     @  @    ",
	  " @   @    @   @      @     @     @ @     @@     @  @    ",
	  "  @@@   @@@@@ @@@@@@@ @@@@@      @  @@@@@  @@@@@   @    ",

	  " @@@@@  @@@@@          @@@      @           @     @@@@@ ",
	  "@     @@     @  @@@    @@@     @             @   @     @",
	  "@     @@     @  @@@           @     @@@@@     @        @",
	  " @@@@@  @@@@@@         @@@   @                 @     @@ ",
	  "@     @      @         @@@    @     @@@@@     @     @   ",
	  "@     @@     @  @@@     @      @             @          ",
	  " @@@@@  @@@@@   @@@    @        @           @       @   ",

	  " @@@@@    @   @@@@@@  @@@@@ @@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@ ",
	  "@     @  @ @  @     @@     @@     @@      @      @     @",
	  "@ @@@ @ @   @ @     @@      @     @@      @      @      ",
	  "@ @ @ @@     @@@@@@@ @      @     @@@@@@  @@@@@  @  @@@@",
	  "@ @@@@ @@@@@@@@     @@      @     @@      @      @     @",
	  "@     @@     @@     @@     @@     @@      @      @     @",
	  " @@@@@ @     @@@@@@@  @@@@@ @@@@@@ @@@@@@@@       @@@@@ ",

	  "@     @  @*@        @@    @ @      @     @@     @@@@@@@@",
	  "@     @   @         @@   @  @      @@   @@@@    @@     @",
	  "@     @   @         @@  @   @      @ @ @ @@ @   @@     @",
	  "@@@@@@@   @         @@@@    @      @  @  @@  @  @@     @",
	  "@     @   @   @     @@  @   @      @     @@   @ @@     @",
	  "@     @   @   @     @@   @  @      @     @@    @@@     @",
	  "@     @  @@@   @@@@@ @    @ @@@@@@@@     @@     @@@@@@@@",

	  "@@@@@@  @@@@@ @@@@@@  @@@@@ @@@@@@@@     @@     @@     @",
	  "@     @@     @@     @@     @   @   @     @@     @@  @  @",
	  "@     @@     @@     @@         @   @     @@     @@  @  @",
	  "@@@@@@ @     @@@@@@@  @@@@@    @   @     @@     @@  @  @",
	  "@      @   @ @@   @        @   @   @     @ @   @ @  @  @",
	  "@      @    @ @    @ @     @   @   @     @  @ @  @  @  @",
	  "@       @@@@ @@     @ @@@@@    @    @@@@@    @    @@ @@ ",

	  "@     @@     @@@@@@@@ @@@@@ @       @@@@@    @          ",
	  " @   @  @   @      @  @      @          @   @ @         ",
	  "  @ @    @ @      @   @       @         @  @   @        ",
	  "   @      @      @    @        @        @               ",
	  "  @ @     @     @     @         @       @               ",
	  " @   @    @    @      @          @      @               ",
	  "@     @   @   @@@@@@@ @@@@@       @ @@@@@        @@@@@@@",

	  "  @@@                                                   ",
	  "  @@@     @@   @@@@@   @@@@  @@@@@  @@@@@@ @@@@@@  @@@@ ",
	  "   @     @  @  @    @ @    @ @    @ @      @      @    @",
	  "    @   @    @ @@@@@  @      @    @ @@@@@  @@@@@  @     ",
	  "        @@@@@@ @    @ @      @    @ @      @      @  @@@",
	  "        @    @ @    @ @    @ @    @ @      @      @    @",
	  "        @    @ @@@@@   @@@@  @@@@@  @@@@@@ @       @@@@ ",

	  "                                                        ",
	  " @    @    @        @ @    @ @      @    @ @    @  @@@@ ",
	  " @    @    @        @ @   @  @      @@  @@ @@   @ @    @",
	  " @@@@@@    @        @ @@@@   @      @ @@ @ @ @  @ @    @",
	  " @    @    @        @ @  @   @      @    @ @  @ @ @    @",
	  " @    @    @   @    @ @   @  @      @    @ @   @@ @    @",
	  " @    @    @    @@@@  @    @ @@@@@@ @    @ @    @  @@@@ ",

	  "                                                        ",
	  " @@@@@   @@@@  @@@@@   @@@@   @@@@@ @    @ @    @ @    @",
	  " @    @ @    @ @    @ @         @   @    @ @    @ @    @",
	  " @    @ @    @ @    @  @@@@     @   @    @ @    @ @    @",
	  " @@@@@  @  @ @ @@@@@       @    @   @    @ @    @ @ @@ @",
	  " @      @   @  @   @  @    @    @   @    @  @  @  @@  @@",
	  " @       @@@ @ @    @  @@@@     @    @@@@    @@   @    @",

	  "                       @@@     @     @@@   @@    @ @ @ @",
	  " @    @  @   @ @@@@@@ @        @        @ @  @  @ @ @ @ ",
	  "  @  @    @ @      @  @        @        @     @@ @ @ @ @",
	  "   @@      @      @  @@                 @@        @ @ @ ",
	  "   @@      @     @    @        @        @        @ @ @ @",
	  "  @  @     @    @     @        @        @         @ @ @ ",
	  " @    @    @   @@@@@@  @@@     @     @@@         @ @ @ @"
};

int main(argc, argv)
int argc;
char *argv[];
{
  int a, b, c, len, ind;
  char line[80];

  for (argv++; --argc; argv++) {
	len = strlen(*argv);
	if (len > 10) len = 10;
	for (a = 0; a < 7; a++) {
		for (b = 0; b < len; b++) {
			if ((ind = (*argv)[b] - ' ') < 0) ind = 0;
			for (c = 0; c < 7; c++) {
				line[b * 8 + c] = glyphs[(ind / 8 * 7) +
a][(ind % 8 * 7) + c] == '@' ? ind + ' ' : ' ';
			}
			line[b * 8 + 7] = ' ';
		}
		for (b = len * 8 - 1; b >= 0; b--) {
			if (line[b] != ' ') break;
			line[b] = '\0';
		}
		printf("%s\n", line);
	}
	printf("\n");
  }
  return(0);
}


From gil at baudot.net  Fri Mar 14 11:49:47 2008
From: gil at baudot.net (gil smith)
Date: Fri Mar 14 11:55:15 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] M14 reperf
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20080314094424.028b6e20@mail.vauxelectronics.com>

Hi folks:

Thanks to all who helped me get ready yesterday -- my cub scouts had a lot 
of fun using the M15, M14 reperf, and 28TD.  The got to take home some 
printouts and chadless tapes.

I have a question on the M14 reperf:  it seems to type just fine when I 
send full-speed data to it from the computer, but when typing from the 
keyboard, the type bars seem very sluggish, sometimes striking the paper 
and sometimes barely moving at all.  Any ideas on why it would work fine at 
full-speed but not with individual key presses?

thanks,

gil




Vaux Electronics, Inc.
480-354-5556
(fax: 480-354-5558)
www.vauxelectronics.com


From wa2hwj at att.net  Fri Mar 14 11:53:39 2008
From: wa2hwj at att.net (wa2hwj@att.net)
Date: Fri Mar 14 11:59:09 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] M14 reperf
Message-ID: <031420081653.23306.47DAAD930001CF2600005B0A22218865869B0A02D29B9B0EBF069908CD0E99@att.net>

Either it needs lubrication, adjustment, or both. If the clutch felts are worn,
they might have too much slippage at "slow" speeds, but the momentum at
full-speed overcomes the slippage. Adjustments usually don't change...

Jack


-------------- Original message from gil smith <gil@baudot.net>: -------------- 


> Hi folks: 
> 
> Thanks to all who helped me get ready yesterday -- my cub scouts had a lot 
> of fun using the M15, M14 reperf, and 28TD. The got to take home some 
> printouts and chadless tapes. 
> 
> I have a question on the M14 reperf: it seems to type just fine when I 
> send full-speed data to it from the computer, but when typing from the 
> keyboard, the type bars seem very sluggish, sometimes striking the paper 
> and sometimes barely moving at all. Any ideas on why it would work fine at 
> full-speed but not with individual key presses? 
> 
> thanks, 
> 
> gil 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vaux Electronics, Inc. 
> 480-354-5556 
> (fax: 480-354-5558) 
> www.vauxelectronics.com 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> GreenKeys mailing list 
> GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net 
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys 
From comcents at bellsouth.net  Fri Mar 14 12:32:05 2008
From: comcents at bellsouth.net (Randy or Sherry Guttery)
Date: Fri Mar 14 12:37:38 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] M14 reperf
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20080314094424.028b6e20@mail.vauxelectronics.com>
References: <6.1.2.0.2.20080314094424.028b6e20@mail.vauxelectronics.com>
Message-ID: <47DAB695.3090807@bellsouth.net>

gil smith wrote:

>  Any ideas on why it would work fine 
> at full-speed but not with individual key presses?

Check your clutches - takes a bit to get all that mass "to speed" - if, 
on the other hand - it's just "impeding" a bit -- i.e. doing it's 
synching  job -- the "mass" is already in motion... and a bit of 
slippage is tolerable (though an indication trouble is brewing).

best regards...
-- 
randy guttery

A Tender Tale - a page dedicated to those Ships and Crews
so vital to the United States Silent Service:
http://tendertale.com
From gil at baudot.net  Fri Mar 14 12:35:59 2008
From: gil at baudot.net (gil smith)
Date: Fri Mar 14 12:41:24 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] M14 reperf
In-Reply-To: <031420081653.23306.47DAAD930001CF2600005B0A22218865869B0A0
	2D29B9B0EBF069908CD0E99@att.net>
References: <031420081653.23306.47DAAD930001CF2600005B0A22218865869B0A02D29B9B0EBF069908CD0E99@att.net>
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20080314103120.02a1c640@mail.vauxelectronics.com>

Hi Jack:

I went over lubrication yesterday, and thought I got everything, but I 
guess I need to pull out the manual and see what I missed.

Clutch felts.  Hmm, that sounds like a big job.

ps:  this reperf has that beautiful NOS black crickle case  I got from you.

thanks,

gil


At 09:53 AM 3/14/2008, wa2hwj@att.net wrote:
>Either it needs lubrication, adjustment, or both. If the clutch felts are 
>worn,
>they might have too much slippage at "slow" speeds, but the momentum at
>full-speed overcomes the slippage. Adjustments usually don't change...
>
>Jack
>
>
>-------------- Original message from gil smith <gil@baudot.net>: 
>--------------
>
>
> > Hi folks:
> >
> > Thanks to all who helped me get ready yesterday -- my cub scouts had a lot
> > of fun using the M15, M14 reperf, and 28TD. The got to take home some
> > printouts and chadless tapes.
> >
> > I have a question on the M14 reperf: it seems to type just fine when I
> > send full-speed data to it from the computer, but when typing from the
> > keyboard, the type bars seem very sluggish, sometimes striking the paper
> > and sometimes barely moving at all. Any ideas on why it would work fine at
> > full-speed but not with individual key presses?
> >
> > thanks,
> >
> > gil
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Vaux Electronics, Inc.
> > 480-354-5556
> > (fax: 480-354-5558)
> > www.vauxelectronics.com
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GreenKeys mailing list
> > GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>_______________________________________________
>GreenKeys mailing list
>GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
>http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys



Vaux Electronics, Inc.
480-354-5556
(fax: 480-354-5558)
www.vauxelectronics.com


From ross at hypertools.com  Sat Mar 15 13:40:10 2008
From: ross at hypertools.com (David Ross)
Date: Sat Mar 15 12:49:46 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] tuning fork frequency?
Message-ID: <47DC180A.90400@hypertools.com>

What tuning fork should I use to check the speed of a Model 28 KSR motor?

thank for the help
Dave Ross    N7EPI
From comcents at bellsouth.net  Sat Mar 15 13:31:43 2008
From: comcents at bellsouth.net (Randy or Sherry Guttery)
Date: Sat Mar 15 13:37:26 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] tuning fork frequency?
In-Reply-To: <47DC180A.90400@hypertools.com>
References: <47DC180A.90400@hypertools.com>
Message-ID: <47DC160F.1050804@bellsouth.net>

David Ross wrote:

> What tuning fork should I use to check the speed of a Model 28 KSR motor?

120cps.

best regards...
-- 
randy guttery

A Tender Tale - a page dedicated to those Ships and Crews
so vital to the United States Silent Service:
http://tendertale.com
From jhhaynes at earthlink.net  Sat Mar 15 13:53:45 2008
From: jhhaynes at earthlink.net (Jim Haynes)
Date: Sat Mar 15 13:59:25 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] tuning fork frequency?
In-Reply-To: <47DC160F.1050804@bellsouth.net>
References: <47DC180A.90400@hypertools.com> <47DC160F.1050804@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.1.00.0803151352460.2932@Frances>



On Sat, 15 Mar 2008, Randy or Sherry Guttery wrote:

> David Ross wrote:
>
>> What tuning fork should I use to check the speed of a Model 28 KSR motor?
>
> 120cps.
>
Which suggests you could use a fluorescent light rather than a tuning
fork.


From nerd at verizon.net  Sat Mar 15 14:10:09 2008
From: nerd at verizon.net (Peter Gottlieb)
Date: Sat Mar 15 14:16:03 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] tuning fork frequency?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.1.00.0803151352460.2932@Frances>
References: <47DC180A.90400@hypertools.com> <47DC160F.1050804@bellsouth.net>
	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803151352460.2932@Frances>
Message-ID: <47DC1F11.5070203@verizon.net>

How about a LED and resistor wand?  Could even mount one in there 
permanently.



Jim Haynes wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, 15 Mar 2008, Randy or Sherry Guttery wrote:
>
>> David Ross wrote:
>>
>>> What tuning fork should I use to check the speed of a Model 28 KSR 
>>> motor?
>>
>> 120cps.
>>
> Which suggests you could use a fluorescent light rather than a tuning
> fork.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>
From larryradio at worldnet.att.net  Sat Mar 15 15:12:23 2008
From: larryradio at worldnet.att.net (Larry Tighe)
Date: Sat Mar 15 15:18:06 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Transistor specs
Message-ID: <000501c886d8$e2e18eb0$0200a8c0@LARRYTIGHE>

Howdy Folks,

I've been all over Google trying to find basic specs on the 2N297 and the 
2N1227.  The 1227 is PNP but cannot find anything on the 297.  Anyone in 
Greenkey land know where there is a site with specs??

Many thanks,
Larry
K2JIA
www.antiquetelephone.com 

From WB6BLV at inreach.com  Sat Mar 15 16:19:37 2008
From: WB6BLV at inreach.com (WB6BLV  Central California)
Date: Sat Mar 15 15:25:46 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] here maybe?
Message-ID: <004301c886e2$471d69e0$5888fea9@dwilegal>

DatasheetArchive :: The internet archive for electronic component datasheets
and data books.
www.datasheetarchive.com/2N297-datasheet.html

From s.hallas at ntlworld.com  Sat Mar 15 16:37:29 2008
From: s.hallas at ntlworld.com (Sam Hallas)
Date: Sat Mar 15 16:43:14 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Transistor specs
In-Reply-To: <000501c886d8$e2e18eb0$0200a8c0@LARRYTIGHE>
References: <000501c886d8$e2e18eb0$0200a8c0@LARRYTIGHE>
Message-ID: <47DC4199.30106@ntlworld.com>

Larry Tighe wrote:
>  I've been all over Google trying to find basic specs on the 2N297 and
>  the 2N1227.  The 1227 is PNP but cannot find anything on the 297.
>  Anyone in Greenkey land know where there is a site with specs??
>
>  Many thanks, Larry K2JIA www.antiquetelephone.com

I usually just put the part number into Google. It came up with this site:
http://www.datasheetarchive.com/2N297-datasheet.html

which gave the following:

2N297
     
Various :: Ge PNP Power BJT      
Specsheet / Datasheet
 
V(BR)CEO (V)=50
V(BR)CBO (V)=60

I(C) Abs.(A) Collector Current=5.0
Absolute Max. Power Diss. (W)=35
I(CBO) Max. (A)=3.0m
@V(CBO) (V) (Test Condition)=60
V(CE)sat Max.(V)=1.0
@I(C) (A) (Test Condition)=2.0
@I(B) (A) (Test Condition)=200m
h(FE) Min. Static Current Gain=40
h(FE) Max. Current gain.=100
@I(C) (A) (Test Condition)=500m
@V(CE) (V) (Test Condition)=2.0
f(T) Min. (Hz) Transition Freq=5.0k
@I(C) (A) (Test Condition)=500m
@V(CE) (V) (Test Condition)=14
Package=TO-3
Military=N

Cheers,
Sam
From larryradio at worldnet.att.net  Sat Mar 15 18:01:06 2008
From: larryradio at worldnet.att.net (Larry Tighe)
Date: Sat Mar 15 18:06:47 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Transistor specs
References: <000501c886d8$e2e18eb0$0200a8c0@LARRYTIGHE>
	<47DC4199.30106@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <001e01c886f0$7482a090$0200a8c0@LARRYTIGHE>

Thanks to all for the help on my transistors.  FWIW, I'm trouble shooting my 
'67 Plymouth Valiant's AM radio.....and the output transistor was 
suspect....alas, not the problem after all.

lar 

From ross at hypertools.com  Sat Mar 15 22:57:52 2008
From: ross at hypertools.com (David Ross)
Date: Sat Mar 15 22:05:29 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] tuning fork frequency?
In-Reply-To: <47DC180A.90400@hypertools.com>
References: <47DC180A.90400@hypertools.com>
Message-ID: <47DC9AC0.3010703@hypertools.com>

Thanks for the help with the Teletype tuning fork question.

I believe that 120VPS is the correct number for a Model 28, the 87.6VPS 
number is for a Model 15.

The LED/resistor wired across the AC line is an ingenious idea.

Dave Ross    N7EPI



David Ross wrote:
> What tuning fork should I use to check the speed of a Model 28 KSR motor?
>
> thank for the help
> Dave Ross    N7EPI
> _______________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>
From tomkleinschmidt at comcast.net  Sat Mar 15 23:17:07 2008
From: tomkleinschmidt at comcast.net (Tom Kleinschmidt)
Date: Sat Mar 15 23:22:46 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] FW: [Boatanchors] FS: Mailbox Teletype Terminal
Message-ID: <095201c8871c$9a3de200$ceb9a600$@net>

A possible treasure for someone. Tom

--------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Mark K3MSB" <mark.k3msb@gmail.com>
To: "List Boatanchors" <boatanchors@mailman.qth.net>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 08:44:10 -0500
Subject: [Boatanchors] FS: Mailbox Teletype Terminal
Message-ID: <9ee269240803050544v2b0b92f4w6891e69f9f8fb99c@mail.gmail.com>

Make an offer.

Pickup only, you load.  I'm about 30 miles SE of York PA.

Not interested in getting rich; I want this beastie out of here.....

Pictures at http://www.k3msb.com/temp/rtty.html

Please reply off-list.

73 Mark K3MSB
_______________________________________________

From k9tty at dls.net  Sat Mar 15 23:32:31 2008
From: k9tty at dls.net (Don Robert House)
Date: Sat Mar 15 23:38:07 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] M14 reperf
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20080314094424.028b6e20@mail.vauxelectronics.com>
References: <6.1.2.0.2.20080314094424.028b6e20@mail.vauxelectronics.com>
Message-ID: <A0BE457F-BE4B-4642-A779-04796D255263@dls.net>

The sending distributor may need cleaning and lubrication, possibly  
adjustment.
Don


On 14 Mar 2008, at 11:49 AM, gil smith wrote:

Hi folks:

Thanks to all who helped me get ready yesterday -- my cub scouts had a  
lot of fun using the M15, M14 reperf, and 28TD.  The got to take home  
some printouts and chadless tapes.

I have a question on the M14 reperf:  it seems to type just fine when  
I send full-speed data to it from the computer, but when typing from  
the keyboard, the type bars seem very sluggish, sometimes striking the  
paper and sometimes barely moving at all.  Any ideas on why it would  
work fine at full-speed but not with individual key presses?

thanks,

gil




Vaux Electronics, Inc.
480-354-5556
(fax: 480-354-5558)
www.vauxelectronics.com


_______________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys

From k9tty at dls.net  Sun Mar 16 00:05:54 2008
From: k9tty at dls.net (Don Robert House)
Date: Sun Mar 16 00:11:30 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] tuning fork frequency?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.1.00.0803151352460.2932@Frances>
References: <47DC180A.90400@hypertools.com> <47DC160F.1050804@bellsouth.net>
	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803151352460.2932@Frances>
Message-ID: <63BED53D-0D6C-443B-B7A2-2692090CB30F@dls.net>

EGADS --- YOU ARE SO SMART JAMES!

DON


On 15 Mar 2008, at 1:53 PM, Jim Haynes wrote:



On Sat, 15 Mar 2008, Randy or Sherry Guttery wrote:

> David Ross wrote:
>
>> What tuning fork should I use to check the speed of a Model 28 KSR  
>> motor?
>
> 120cps.
>
Which suggests you could use a fluorescent light rather than a tuning
fork.


_______________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys

From ksweek at mindspring.com  Sun Mar 16 10:10:03 2008
From: ksweek at mindspring.com (Ken Schwieker)
Date: Sun Mar 16 10:16:29 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] tuning fork frequency? 
Message-ID: <20080316151628.1E9BA859BBA@mailman.qth.net>

There is a problem with the LED/resistor strobe circuit in that a 
LED's reverse max voltage spec (usually around 5 volts) precludes 
having the 140 volts on the non conducting half of the cycle getting 
to the led. A blocking diode should work to keep this from happening. 
Another better option would be to use a bridge rectifier which would 
in addition to solving the reverse voltage problem, give 120 blinks a 
second verses the 60 with a blocking diode. The blinks from a LED in 
these circuits will be rather drawn out which will result in a 
smeared target view. Since any useful strobe effect will work this 
probably makes no difference.

Ken S



 >Thanks for the help with the Teletype tuning fork question.
 >
 >I believe that 120VPS is the correct number for a Model 28, the 
87.6VPS number is for a Model 15.
 >
 >The LED/resistor wired across the AC line is an ingenious idea.
 >
 >Dave Ross    N7EPI

From nerd at verizon.net  Sun Mar 16 10:26:10 2008
From: nerd at verizon.net (Peter Gottlieb)
Date: Sun Mar 16 10:31:51 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] tuning fork frequency?
In-Reply-To: <20080316151628.1E9BA859BBA@mailman.qth.net>
References: <20080316151628.1E9BA859BBA@mailman.qth.net>
Message-ID: <47DD3C12.8060507@verizon.net>

You have to use a bridge for both frequency and reverse voltage issues.  
Take a diac from an old dimmer and put it in series with the resistor 
and it will increase the strobe contrast.  If you can't find a diac put 
the highest voltage zener you can find in series with the LED.  The 
point of this is to use what you can find laying around so it is a free 
add-on.

If you want to be more in tune with the technology of the times, use a 
neon bulb.  This will give a very nice strobe effect.  Remember the 
turntable speed check discs with lines printed on them for use with a neon?

Peter



Ken Schwieker wrote:
> There is a problem with the LED/resistor strobe circuit in that a 
> LED's reverse max voltage spec (usually around 5 volts) precludes 
> having the 140 volts on the non conducting half of the cycle getting 
> to the led. A blocking diode should work to keep this from happening. 
> Another better option would be to use a bridge rectifier which would 
> in addition to solving the reverse voltage problem, give 120 blinks a 
> second verses the 60 with a blocking diode. The blinks from a LED in 
> these circuits will be rather drawn out which will result in a smeared 
> target view. Since any useful strobe effect will work this probably 
> makes no difference.
>
> Ken S
>
>
>
> >Thanks for the help with the Teletype tuning fork question.
> >
> >I believe that 120VPS is the correct number for a Model 28, the 
> 87.6VPS number is for a Model 15.
> >
> >The LED/resistor wired across the AC line is an ingenious idea.
> >
> >Dave Ross    N7EPI
>
> _______________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>
From gil at baudot.net  Sun Mar 16 18:29:13 2008
From: gil at baudot.net (gil@baudot.net)
Date: Sun Mar 16 18:34:55 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] M14 reperf
Message-ID: <20080316162913.617ae442d0f8f631a9b3312d6b10cde7.1a50981e73.wbe@email.secureserver.net>

Hi Don:

Actually, I found the manual, found the location of themain clutch,
which is hidden inside a gear.  A bit of oil oozed inthere and it seems
just fine now!

This machine is now in verynice shape mechanically, and is wrapped in a
new-old-stock blackcrinkle case (thanks Jack!), with a pristine new
glass window.

AllI need now is the copy-holder that screws on the front -- anyone
haveone (any color, since black crinkle should be easy to match)?

thanks for your help guys,

gil


 

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] M14 reperf
From: Don Robert House <k9tty@dls.net>
Date: Sat, March 15, 2008 9:32 pm
To: gil smith <gil@baudot.net>
Cc: Greenkeys <greenkeys@mailman.qth.net>

The sending distributor may need cleaning and lubrication, possibly 
adjustment.
Don


On 14 Mar 2008, at 11:49 AM, gil smith wrote:

Hi folks:

Thanks to all who helped me get ready yesterday -- my cub scouts had a 
lot of fun using the M15, M14 reperf, and 28TD. The got to take home 
some printouts and chadless tapes.

I have a question on the M14 reperf: it seems to type just fine when 
I send full-speed data to it from the computer, but when typing from 
the keyboard, the type bars seem very sluggish, sometimes striking the 
paper and sometimes barely moving at all. Any ideas on why it would 
work fine at full-speed but not with individual key presses?

thanks,

gil




Vaux Electronics, Inc.
480-354-5556
(fax: 480-354-5558)
www.vauxelectronics.com


_______________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys

_______________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys


From gil at baudot.net  Sun Mar 16 18:39:11 2008
From: gil at baudot.net (gil@baudot.net)
Date: Sun Mar 16 18:44:53 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] tuning fork frequency?
Message-ID: <20080316163911.617ae442d0f8f631a9b3312d6b10cde7.fcf8a4304e.wbe@email.secureserver.net>

Hi:

Well, you can also parallel the led with pretty-much-any-old diode,
across the led in the opposite polarity.  In the forward (led)
direction, the led has its forward drop of about 1.4V, with the rest
across the resisitor, and in the opposite direction, there will be about
-0.7V across it (and the rest across the resisitor).  The diode sees a
max reverse voltage of -1.4V, and the LED sees a max reverse voltage of
-0.7V.  An old trick.

But Ken is correct that this will only give you 60-Hz flashes, while
using a bridge will not only prevent blowing the led from reverse
voltage, but will give you 120Hz flashes.

gil

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] tuning fork frequency?
From: Ken Schwieker <ksweek@mindspring.com>
Date: Sun, March 16, 2008 8:10 am
To: greenkeys@mailman.qth.net

There is a problem with the LED/resistor strobe circuit in that a 
LED's reverse max voltage spec (usually around 5 volts) precludes 
having the 140 volts on the non conducting half of the cycle getting 
to the led. A blocking diode should work to keep this from happening. 
Another better option would be to use a bridge rectifier which would 
in addition to solving the reverse voltage problem, give 120 blinks a 
second verses the 60 with a blocking diode. The blinks from a LED in 
these circuits will be rather drawn out which will result in a 
smeared target view. Since any useful strobe effect will work this 
probably makes no difference.

Ken S



 >Thanks for the help with the Teletype tuning fork question.
 >
 >I believe that 120VPS is the correct number for a Model 28, the 
87.6VPS number is for a Model 15.
 >
 >The LED/resistor wired across the AC line is an ingenious idea.
 >
 >Dave Ross N7EPI

_______________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys


From nick at 3rdtech.com  Mon Mar 17 09:10:07 2008
From: nick at 3rdtech.com (Nick England)
Date: Mon Mar 17 09:15:58 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Free TTY Equipment - Maryland
Message-ID: <07f201c88838$9ae53d80$fd0212ac@Heathkit2>


In La Plata Maryland - 
Contact person below - don't replay to me as I am just the messenger.
Nick
__________
> I have four (+) United States Air Force Teletypewriter Sets for RTTY. Of
the
> four sets is one very serviceable unit, and lots of spare parts. Manual
included.
> The units are Models AN/TGC (V) and AN/TGC-14A(V) Vintage
15March1972AA3WS. I have
> absolutely no time to have fun with these and I hate to see them just sit
here when
> someone else can take advantage of the
> potential.
>
> Anybody interested in the lot, free of course,  please let me know.
>
> Thanks and 73
> Lee
> N3YWZ
> (301) 934-1753
>


From w7tty at readysetsurf.com  Tue Mar 18 00:17:32 2008
From: w7tty at readysetsurf.com (George B. Hutchison)
Date: Tue Mar 18 00:23:34 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Seattle Western Union History
Message-ID: <001901c888b7$5f7e13f0$0200a8c0@MAINCOMP>

GreenKeyers - - -

I recently received a call from a Mr. Harvey Glilland, Of St. 
Petersburg, Alaska.

Harvey worked for Western Union and a number of other communications 
entities such as Alascom, the forerunner of the telephone company in 
Alaska.

As we chatted he remarked on a number of interesting things about the 
Western Union operation here in the Seattle area.

To me Western Union was an outfit who had teletype machines in ugly 
green boxes, strange miniature Fax Machines that used wierd paper, 
and their own Nationwide Microwave network, just to name a few.

He has contacted me regarding a plan to put down in writing a number 
of things he remembers about Western Union here in Seattle.

I know this is a TELETYPE reflector, but I also know that there are a 
number of serious Western Union and Telegraph enthusiasts on 
GreenKeys.

I am posting an email I received from him this evening, and hope that 
those of you who have an interest in Western Union history will 
contact him and encourage him to indeed put his experiences with W.U. 
down on paper.

His e-mail address is: sloughview@attalascom.net

Here's his e-mail - - -


I've actually given some thought to putting together  something about 
all of
the Seattle Western Union operation that I was acquainted with, 
including
teletype equipment and circuits including multiplexing, the facsimile
system, key & sounder telegraph (using American Morse....a bit 
different
than International Morse code), pneumatic tube operation, and the 
phone
department with singing telegrams, etc.  Life is full though.  What 
would I
do with such a write-up anyway?  Any ideas?  Would anyone care 
enough?

Kindest regards, Harvey KL7FFP

Gentlemen, I leave it up to you.

We all should remember that as we head for the final NNNN, each of us 
does indeed have some history that should not be lost.

I have been asked to give a "Forum" on RTTY at Pacificon 2008 to be 
held in San Ramon, Calif. in October of this year.

My plans thus far are to just regale those interested with what was 
happening in RTTY in the Bay Area with regards to RTTY from about 
1955 to 1960, and then chronicle some of my experiences with Irv 
Hoff, Bob Weitbrecht, the 3612.5 Autostart Net, and other teletype 
trivia of the late 60's. This will require me to put a lot on paper 
and to put it in some semblance of order so that whomever might show 
up for the presentation won't be falling asleep.

I would like to ask any and all of you who ever dealt with Irv, 
W6FFC, in some way shape or form, to please send me an anecdotal 
recollection of your experience.

Irv laid a lot of track for a lot of people in the amateur and 
commercial communications fields, and this I believe would be an 
excellent opportunity to contribute to some manner of chronicle of 
this rather incredible man's legacy. For example, think about the 
fact that the design of the ST-6 is about forty years old, and in 
many instances ST-6s are still going strong!

Thanks in advance for anything you folks have to contribute.

George - W7TTY


From ka2wft at arrl.net  Tue Mar 18 08:41:40 2008
From: ka2wft at arrl.net (Doug Alderdice)
Date: Tue Mar 18 08:55:49 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Seattle Western Union History
In-Reply-To: <001901c888b7$5f7e13f0$0200a8c0@MAINCOMP>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20080318093910.03c63c08@incoming.verizon.net>

Harvey asks the question, "What would I do with such a write-up?"  How 
about a web site where such recollections can be gathered and 
posted?  Seems like it would fit in nicely with RTTY.com, esp. for 
recollections involving Teletypes.

73,

Doug, KA2WFT



At 10:17 PM 3/17/2008 -0700, George B. Hutchison wrote:
>He has contacted me regarding a plan to put down in writing a number of 
>things he remembers about Western Union here in Seattle.
>
>I know this is a TELETYPE reflector, but I also know that there are a 
>number of serious Western Union and Telegraph enthusiasts on GreenKeys.



>Here's his e-mail - - -
>
>
>What would I
>do with such a write-up anyway?  Any ideas?  Would anyone care enough?
>
>Kindest regards, Harvey KL7FFP
>
>Gentlemen, I leave it up to you.
>
>We all should remember that as we head for the final NNNN, each of us does 
>indeed have some history that should not be lost.


From vibroplex at mindspring.com  Tue Mar 18 10:24:13 2008
From: vibroplex at mindspring.com (vibroplex@mindspring.com)
Date: Tue Mar 18 10:30:03 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Western Union History
Message-ID: <900963.1205853853945.JavaMail.root@mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Hi Everyone,

I am an infrequent poster to this list since I'm still in the learning phase...

My main technical hobby is landline Morse (using American Morse) on wire circuits.  I am a member of the Morse Telegraph Club which is a group of retired Morse operators (Railroad, Telco, Western Union, Postal Telegraph, Newspaper, etc.) and hobbyists like myself.  We would be happy to receive any recollections of Western Union and I will recommend that they be posted on our MTC web site.  

Our group, the Morse Telegraph Club (www.morsetelegraphclub.org) has a network where we use Bell 103 modems to AFSK over the phone lines and converter circuits to turn the tones into power to operate our instruments.  In that way, we can "telegraph" over the phone lines (and do it a minimum of 3 times per week).  We've been doing this for about 20 years.  My hope has always been to connect up my Model 15 over this dial-up circuit (with another teletype on the other end) and use it in place of my hand key/bug and that's been my motivation to hang out on greenkeys....actual landline teletype.

If the former employee also knows American Morse, I would be happy to send him a modem/converter at no charge and we would welcome his participation in our "roundtable" discussion each week.  If there is anyone else on greenkeys that would be interested in participating in using American Morse, I would be happy to help them.  In addition to having an analog circuit that operates over the phone lines, we have an internet version (used by dozens of people at once).  Here is the link for it:  http://home.earthlink.net/~n7rz/morse/

Some think that learning American Morse will cause them to forget International Morse.  That doesn't seem to be the case.  Almost all of our American Morse participants are also hams active on CW with International Morse.  I'm living proof any one can do it!


73,

Derek Cohn
WB?TUA
Morse Telegraph Club - Alton Chapter

From gil at baudot.net  Tue Mar 18 10:49:36 2008
From: gil at baudot.net (gil smith)
Date: Tue Mar 18 10:55:25 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Seattle Western Union History
In-Reply-To: <001901c888b7$5f7e13f0$0200a8c0@MAINCOMP>
References: <001901c888b7$5f7e13f0$0200a8c0@MAINCOMP>
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20080318082310.02b19eb8@mail.vauxelectronics.com>

Hello Harvey:

I would very much enjoy reading your memories of WU.  Please do write down 
whatever you remember.  I am certain that many of the folks here on 
greenkeys feel the same way as I do.   I have a few WU machines and would 
be interested to find out more about any facet of WU.  I'm sure that Jim 
Haynes would also be very interested, as he has been amassing quite a 
collection of WU technical info.

Harvey, your greenkeys post will put you in the greenkeys archives for 
posterity, but I would also be happy to post your paper on baudot(dot)net.

thanks,

Gil Smith



At 10:17 PM 3/17/2008, George B. Hutchison wrote:
>GreenKeyers - - -
>
>I recently received a call from a Mr. Harvey Glilland, Of St. Petersburg, 
>Alaska.
>...
>
>I've actually given some thought to putting together  something about all of
>the Seattle Western Union operation that I was acquainted with, including
>teletype equipment and circuits including multiplexing, the facsimile
>system, key & sounder telegraph (using American Morse....a bit different
>than International Morse code), pneumatic tube operation, and the phone
>department with singing telegrams, etc.  Life is full though.  What would I
>do with such a write-up anyway?  Any ideas?  Would anyone care enough?
>
>Kindest regards, Harvey KL7FFP



Vaux Electronics, Inc.
480-354-5556
(fax: 480-354-5558)
www.vauxelectronics.com


From Til128 at aol.com  Tue Mar 18 15:16:31 2008
From: Til128 at aol.com (Til128@aol.com)
Date: Tue Mar 18 15:22:34 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Seattle Western Union History
Message-ID: <bd1.2c0159e7.35117d1f@aol.com>

Hi all:
In regards to WU history,  there is a site dedicated to ex-WU'ers.

http://www.westernunionalumni.com/

73,
DE Tom Tillson
All things  electromechanical.
ITTY
HeavyMetal
LL TTY
NNNN  




**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL 
Home.      
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
From k9tty at dls.net  Tue Mar 18 17:26:32 2008
From: k9tty at dls.net (Don Robert House)
Date: Tue Mar 18 17:32:26 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] FREE 25KW Transmitter.. you have to pick it up...
Message-ID: <F0FD1D68-4C2D-4F23-B596-7F1900F52541@dls.net>

Begin forwarded message:

From: "Joe Serocki" <joeserocki@gmail.com>
Date: 18 March 2008 4:16:02 PM CDT
To: <WeLCARS@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [WeLCARS] Transmitter
Reply-To: WeLCARS@yahoogroups.com

Here is the message. Basically the racks are seven feet high, and the  
units cannot be
tipped nor hauled any way except upright. They have a pallet jack to  
help get it out the
door, but it does not raise at all.

1200 # on the one cabinet, 2200# on the other.

If needs to go NOW, and I know, right before Easter is a PITA to do  
something like this?

We have an urgent need to allow any parties of the SBE in the Chicago
area who are willing to pick up a used working CCA transmitter (two
cabinets with spare parts) from our facility in Addison. It is ready to
go now. The combined weight of the two cabinets is 3500 pounds and the
cabinets are 84" high. They will NOT fit in a rented U-Haul truck as
someone already discovered. The equipment may last only a week before
it is junked. Pictures are available. Anyone interested may contact me:

Sam Palermo
Chief Engineer
Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago
(708) 334-2260

Joe Serocki, N9IFG
www.welcars.org
www.stonedmonkey.org
www.venturecrew743.org
www.foxlaketroop85.org

From richardschumann at comcast.net  Tue Mar 18 20:27:00 2008
From: richardschumann at comcast.net (Richard Schumann)
Date: Tue Mar 18 20:33:31 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Seattle Western Union History
References: <bd1.2c0159e7.35117d1f@aol.com>
Message-ID: <00ec01c88960$698d1ae0$6401a8c0@Brian80gig>

Anybody know the circumstances under which American Morse was phased out for 
the Morse we are familiar with today, and how Teletype figured in to all 
this?  Maybe some kind of website with a timeline showing how the different 
methods overlapped?  There must have been some real conflicts among those 
who resisted change.

Fascinating stuff!

Richard kn7sfz


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Til128@aol.com>
To: <greenkeys@mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 1:16 PM
Subject: [GreenKeys] Seattle Western Union History


> Hi all:
> In regards to WU history,  there is a site dedicated to ex-WU'ers.
>
> http://www.westernunionalumni.com/
>
> 73,
> DE Tom Tillson
> All things  electromechanical.
> ITTY
> HeavyMetal
> LL TTY
> NNNN
>
>
>
>
> **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
> Home.
> (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
> _______________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> 

From ka2wft at arrl.net  Tue Mar 18 20:52:19 2008
From: ka2wft at arrl.net (Doug Alderdice)
Date: Tue Mar 18 20:58:16 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: Seattle Western Union History
In-Reply-To: <00ec01c88960$698d1ae0$6401a8c0@Brian80gig>
References: <bd1.2c0159e7.35117d1f@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20080318213339.03cdf918@incoming.verizon.net>

At 06:27 PM 3/18/2008 -0700, Richard Schumann wrote:
>Anybody know the circumstances under which American Morse was phased out 
>for the Morse we are familiar with today, and how Teletype figured in to 
>all this?  Maybe some kind of website with a timeline showing how the 
>different methods overlapped?  There must have been some real conflicts 
>among those who resisted change.

International Morse, with which we are familiar from the airwaves, is a 
slight modification of the "Continental" Code, developed in Europe for use 
on the landline telegraphs there.  I believe it was a German by the name of 
Gerke, quite early on, who didn't like the idea of the spaces within the 
characters as you find in American Morse (e.g. "C" in American is "..  .", 
"O" is ".  .", etc.), as well as having three different dash lengths ("T", 
"L" and zero, in increasing length).  Declaring American Morse 
"unsuitable," he developed the Continental Code which has a uniform dash 
length and no spaces within the character elements.  It is interesting to 
note that the non-English origin of the Continental Code can be seen in the 
coding of the letter "O" (three dashes) making a fairly long character, as 
opposed to Morse's original two spaced dots.  The letter "O" is not used as 
frequently in German as it is in English.  When Morse developed his code he 
sent his assistant to study type boxes in the local printer's office to do 
a study on which letters were used more than others and coded them 
appropriately, hence the "E" with the single dot.  Gerke apparently did 
something similar, except it was the German usage of the letters.

But, I digress.  The two codes existed concurrently almost from the 
beginning of wired telegraphy, Continental in Europe and places like Oz and 
American Morse in North America.  I don't recall which code was used on the 
trans-oceanic line, probably Continental.  With the advent of radio, er, 
"wireless" in those days, at some point it was determined that the 
Continental Code with its no-spaces-within-the-elements characters and 
uniform dash length was better suited to use on the airwaves where static 
and other QRM is to be found in great quantities, especially with the early 
spark gear.  As American Morse ops can tell you, there are certain 
character patterns that can be interpreted different ways, and you need to 
be cognizant of what you are copying as the context can make a big 
difference in what you copy down.

As an earlier poster noted, there are folks who can do both codes quite 
readily.  I am not one of them, sad to say.  I do live telegraph displays 
locally a couple of times a year but I use International... and get caught 
out by the occasional retired railroader who knows the difference!

73,

Doug, KA2WFT
http://mysite.verizon.net/dalderdi/telegrph/


From jhhaynes at earthlink.net  Tue Mar 18 21:02:07 2008
From: jhhaynes at earthlink.net (Jim Haynes)
Date: Tue Mar 18 21:08:14 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Seattle Western Union History
In-Reply-To: <00ec01c88960$698d1ae0$6401a8c0@Brian80gig>
References: <bd1.2c0159e7.35117d1f@aol.com>
	<00ec01c88960$698d1ae0$6401a8c0@Brian80gig>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.1.00.0803182044090.3802@Frances>


On Tue, 18 Mar 2008, Richard Schumann wrote:

> Anybody know the circumstances under which American Morse was phased out for 
> the Morse we are familiar with today, and how Teletype figured in to all 
> this?  Maybe some kind of website with a timeline showing how the different 
> methods overlapped?  There must have been some real conflicts among those who 
> resisted change.
>
I don't have a timeline for you, but here is how it went, as I understand
it.

The original Morse code, which we call American Morse, was actually
developed by Morse's collaborator Alfred Vail.  It was used pretty
much unchanged from the early days of the telegraph through the very
end of land-line telegraphy in the U.S.  The very end was more or
less in the railroad business.  Western Union switched to teleprinters
early, because telegraphy was the backbone of their business and
teleprinters were faster than manual Morse and took less training
to use.  Of course there were some old W.U. people who knew Morse
long after teleprinters came into use, and they continued to use Morse
occasionally, for things like wire maintenance and for communication
with railroads.  The railroads hung onto manual Morse for a lot of
their operations because transmitting messages was not the backbone
of their business, but merely a tool of it.  They didn't have enough
traffic to need the speed of teleprinters, and they didn't want to
spend money on teleprinters and their maintenance when Morse equipment
was cheap and simple and worked well enough.  (Though for some parts
of their operation the railroads did make good use of teleprinters;
but out along the line there was a lot of Morse used until about
1968.  And the manual Morse was replaced not by teleprinters but
by telephones, and now by radio.)

The Morse code that we know from ham radio was called Continental
Morse, meaning the Continent of Europe.  So presumably the Europeans
in adapting telegraphy to their needs decided that the code should
be changed somewhat - and probably they added characters to the code
for things that are in some languages but not in English.  I suspect
the French would do that sort of thing - they always wanted to do
things their own way anyway.

Then when radio came into the picture there was some use of American
Morse by U.S. stations, but there was a need to have a common code
for all the ships at sea regardless of their nationality, so the
Continental code was adopted and called the International Morse code.
Around the same time the Q signals were developed both for brevity
and to have a language-independent system of communication.  That is,
U.S. and French and German wireless operators, for example, didn't have
to know one another's languages because just about everything they
needed to say could be expressed in Q signals.

So the American Morse was not phased out so much as it went its own
way with the wire lines and clicking sounders, while the International
Morse code came into use for radio.


From richardschumann at comcast.net  Tue Mar 18 22:43:51 2008
From: richardschumann at comcast.net (Richard Schumann)
Date: Tue Mar 18 22:50:27 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Seattle Western Union History
References: <bd1.2c0159e7.35117d1f@aol.com>
	<00ec01c88960$698d1ae0$6401a8c0@Brian80gig>
	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803182044090.3802@Frances>
Message-ID: <008201c88973$8a20d130$6401a8c0@Brian80gig>

Thanks Jim and Doug for filling in some of the gaps!

Richard kn7sfz


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim Haynes" <jhhaynes@earthlink.net>
To: "Richard Schumann" <richardschumann@comcast.net>
Cc: <Til128@aol.com>; <greenkeys@mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 7:02 PM
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Seattle Western Union History


>
> On Tue, 18 Mar 2008, Richard Schumann wrote:
>
>> Anybody know the circumstances under which American Morse was phased out 
>> for the Morse we are familiar with today, and how Teletype figured in to 
>> all this?  Maybe some kind of website with a timeline showing how the 
>> different methods overlapped?  There must have been some real conflicts 
>> among those who resisted change.
>>
> I don't have a timeline for you, but here is how it went, as I understand
> it.
>
> The original Morse code, which we call American Morse, was actually
> developed by Morse's collaborator Alfred Vail.  It was used pretty
> much unchanged from the early days of the telegraph through the very
> end of land-line telegraphy in the U.S.  The very end was more or
> less in the railroad business.  Western Union switched to teleprinters
> early, because telegraphy was the backbone of their business and
> teleprinters were faster than manual Morse and took less training
> to use.  Of course there were some old W.U. people who knew Morse
> long after teleprinters came into use, and they continued to use Morse
> occasionally, for things like wire maintenance and for communication
> with railroads.  The railroads hung onto manual Morse for a lot of
> their operations because transmitting messages was not the backbone
> of their business, but merely a tool of it.  They didn't have enough
> traffic to need the speed of teleprinters, and they didn't want to
> spend money on teleprinters and their maintenance when Morse equipment
> was cheap and simple and worked well enough.  (Though for some parts
> of their operation the railroads did make good use of teleprinters;
> but out along the line there was a lot of Morse used until about
> 1968.  And the manual Morse was replaced not by teleprinters but
> by telephones, and now by radio.)
>
> The Morse code that we know from ham radio was called Continental
> Morse, meaning the Continent of Europe.  So presumably the Europeans
> in adapting telegraphy to their needs decided that the code should
> be changed somewhat - and probably they added characters to the code
> for things that are in some languages but not in English.  I suspect
> the French would do that sort of thing - they always wanted to do
> things their own way anyway.
>
> Then when radio came into the picture there was some use of American
> Morse by U.S. stations, but there was a need to have a common code
> for all the ships at sea regardless of their nationality, so the
> Continental code was adopted and called the International Morse code.
> Around the same time the Q signals were developed both for brevity
> and to have a language-independent system of communication.  That is,
> U.S. and French and German wireless operators, for example, didn't have
> to know one another's languages because just about everything they
> needed to say could be expressed in Q signals.
>
> So the American Morse was not phased out so much as it went its own
> way with the wire lines and clicking sounders, while the International
> Morse code came into use for radio.
>
>
> 

From odaymg at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 21 11:22:00 2008
From: odaymg at yahoo.com (Michael O'Day)
Date: Fri Mar 21 11:28:09 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: failure notice
In-Reply-To: <33237685.1205151407495.JavaMail.?@fh033.dia.cp.net>
Message-ID: <180615.1815.qm@web50003.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Gil,
 you just need to learn to swear in a foreign
language. As an on-site field engineer for 23 years,
that always worked for me (I had learned some Saudi
slang terms).

Mike N9ODM


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
From vibroplex at mindspring.com  Fri Mar 21 20:48:04 2008
From: vibroplex at mindspring.com (Derek Cohn/WB0TUA)
Date: Fri Mar 21 20:54:19 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Does anyone know what this is?
Message-ID: <009001c88bbe$c558aff0$6401a8c0@dereka482e87c5>

Hi Everyone,

Does anybody know that the following item is?  Since it's in with a bunch of 
teletype equipment and marked Bell System, I'm wondering if it's something 
to do with teletype.

http://webpages.charter.net/mecograph/P1010001.JPG

Thanks for any info you guys can offer!


Derek Cohn
Morse Telegraph Club - Alton Chapter
Office UD, Sine DJ
Amateur Radio Station - WB?TUA
1969 Brunswick M274A5 Mechanical Mule 

From gcarlistaa at garychatters.com  Fri Mar 21 22:14:40 2008
From: gcarlistaa at garychatters.com (Gary Chatters)
Date: Fri Mar 21 22:20:58 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Does anyone know what this is?
In-Reply-To: <009001c88bbe$c558aff0$6401a8c0@dereka482e87c5>
References: <009001c88bbe$c558aff0$6401a8c0@dereka482e87c5>
Message-ID: <47E479A0.9040200@garychatters.com>

It looks like a mobile LMR receiver.  There is a PL-259 antenna 
connector on the front.  The channel crystal is in the lower right 
corner on top of the chassis.  The large open area in the middle of the 
left side would be for a vibrator power supply.

This looks similar to the GE Pre-Prog radios that we got from the local 
power company back when I first got my ham license.  We converted them 
to 6M FM on 52.525MHz.  They were used by the power company,  but I 
recall many of them being marked "Bell System".  I do not recall what 
they had to do with the phone company.

Can you see any manufacturer label?  Although it looks similar to the GE 
it may be a different manufacturer (RCA maybe).

Nothing to do with Teletype.

Gary


Derek Cohn/WB0TUA wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
> 
> Does anybody know that the following item is?  Since it's in with a 
> bunch of teletype equipment and marked Bell System, I'm wondering if 
> it's something to do with teletype.
> 
> http://webpages.charter.net/mecograph/P1010001.JPG
> 
> Thanks for any info you guys can offer!
> 
> 
> Derek Cohn
> Morse Telegraph Club - Alton Chapter
> Office UD, Sine DJ
> Amateur Radio Station - WB?TUA
> 1969 Brunswick M274A5 Mechanical Mule
From k9tty at dls.net  Fri Mar 21 23:19:36 2008
From: k9tty at dls.net (Don Robert House)
Date: Fri Mar 21 23:25:59 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Does anyone know what this is?
In-Reply-To: <47E479A0.9040200@garychatters.com>
References: <009001c88bbe$c558aff0$6401a8c0@dereka482e87c5>
	<47E479A0.9040200@garychatters.com>
Message-ID: <86E54423-A63D-46F1-B02C-803B8D4C331B@dls.net>

Gary,

Now the old gears are working.  Those radios were used by the Bell  
System in the old days to connect utility companies and municipalities  
to the telephone network via an operator.
These radios predated the MTS, IMTS, AMPS, and Cellular.  In Chicago  
they were in use longer than normal for the Chicago Fire and Police  
boats on the Chicago River.
Have you ever seen a fire boat pump water?  It is a sight to behold.

Old Don



On 21 Mar 2008, at 10:14 PM, Gary Chatters wrote:

It looks like a mobile LMR receiver.  There is a PL-259 antenna  
connector on the front.  The channel crystal is in the lower right  
corner on top of the chassis.  The large open area in the middle of  
the left side would be for a vibrator power supply.

This looks similar to the GE Pre-Prog radios that we got from the  
local power company back when I first got my ham license.  We  
converted them to 6M FM on 52.525MHz.  They were used by the power  
company,  but I recall many of them being marked "Bell System".  I do  
not recall what they had to do with the phone company.

Can you see any manufacturer label?  Although it looks similar to the  
GE it may be a different manufacturer (RCA maybe).

Nothing to do with Teletype.

Gary


Derek Cohn/WB0TUA wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
> Does anybody know that the following item is?  Since it's in with a  
> bunch of teletype equipment and marked Bell System, I'm wondering if  
> it's something to do with teletype.
> http://webpages.charter.net/mecograph/P1010001.JPG
> Thanks for any info you guys can offer!
> Derek Cohn
> Morse Telegraph Club - Alton Chapter
> Office UD, Sine DJ
> Amateur Radio Station - WB?TUA
> 1969 Brunswick M274A5 Mechanical Mule
_______________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys

From larryradio at worldnet.att.net  Sat Mar 22 08:23:07 2008
From: larryradio at worldnet.att.net (Larry Tighe)
Date: Sat Mar 22 08:31:25 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Does anyone know what this is?
References: <009001c88bbe$c558aff0$6401a8c0@dereka482e87c5>
Message-ID: <024001c88c1f$de566d60$2000a8c0@ljt>

That is a PreProgress GE lowband receiver.  It had a seperate transmitter 
that could have one or two 807 finals.  Two 807's would give you over 100 
watts output from your car!!

It is low band, i.e., 30 to 50 MHz.  By jumpering two pins and applying the 
correct voltage, you can get it to work.  Too, another pin thru a pot to 
ground will tame the squelch circuit.  Thence on to the two pins from the 
output xfmr will give you audio.

Lar
K2JIA
www.antiquetelephone.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Derek Cohn/WB0TUA" <vibroplex@mindspring.com>
To: "Greenkeys ((E-mail))" <greenkeys@mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 9:48 PM
Subject: [GreenKeys] Does anyone know what this is?


> Hi Everyone,
>
> Does anybody know that the following item is?  Since it's in with a bunch 
> of teletype equipment and marked Bell System, I'm wondering if it's 
> something to do with teletype.
>
> http://webpages.charter.net/mecograph/P1010001.JPG
>
> Thanks for any info you guys can offer!
>
>
> Derek Cohn
> Morse Telegraph Club - Alton Chapter
> Office UD, Sine DJ
> Amateur Radio Station - WB?TUA
> 1969 Brunswick M274A5 Mechanical Mule
> _______________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys 

From vibroplex at mindspring.com  Sat Mar 22 08:49:32 2008
From: vibroplex at mindspring.com (Derek Cohn/WB0TUA)
Date: Sat Mar 22 08:55:51 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Thank you for ID'ing the Western Electric Receiver
Message-ID: <010e01c88c23$8f0395e0$6401a8c0@dereka482e87c5>

Hi Everyone,

I just wanted to say thanks for ID'ing the Western Electric mobile receiver. 
I can't image where else in the world I could post a photo like that and 
have an answer to what it is in a few minutes.

I also had a private reply from a list member who offered this detail:

The "whatszit" in your question photo is a Western Electric Type 38 (or 39) 
mobile telephone receiver from 1947.  There is a companion transmitter 
normally used with the receiver, and a Type 41A control box went under the 
car dashboard.  These were single channel VHF low band and high band and 
used a 600-1500 Hz tone signaling format which ran a rotary stepper wheel 
under a glass dome located on the receiver chassis (it's been removed from 
the example in the photo.)

When assembled with the companion transmitter, this equipment was the 238 or 
239 car telephone.
Western Electric's last self-made car telephone.  After that they KS- 
numbered phones made by GE and Motorola.

You guys are the best!

Derek Cohn
Morse Telegraph Club - Alton Chapter
Office UD, Sine DJ
Amateur Radio Station - WB?TUA
1969 Brunswick M274A5 Mechanical Mule 

From WB6BLV at inreach.com  Sat Mar 22 10:38:07 2008
From: WB6BLV at inreach.com (WB6BLV  Central California)
Date: Sat Mar 22 09:45:12 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] IDed by Larry
Message-ID: <004e01c88c32$baf17960$5888fea9@dwilegal>

Should a list member be so fortunate (???) as to acquire said GE Pre-Prog
beast, I (somewhere) have the manual, including schematic, freq 'bands'
(lo-lo   lo-mid   lo-hi), connection pinouts to control head etc, crytstal
formulae, factory updates....  and if you need a control head, "A relay",
genuine GE carbon mic (weighing as much as a 'modern' transceiver), or
wiring harness, there should be a few of those collecting dust-bunnies (also
somewhere) around here... many moons ago I had one of these on 6 meters,
along with a GE LPI (low power industrial (3 watts with a tailwind)) on
52.525 and 50.56... the LPI weighed bout the same as the car battery and had
one of the most selective receiver front ends I have run across!  Also, the
TX used link coupling on ALL stages so spurs were nowhere to be found.
But, I digress.....

Heavens, how on earth can I be old enough to have this stuff!!!!!  No gray
hair yet.....

John
WB6BLV

From larryradio at worldnet.att.net  Sat Mar 22 11:03:46 2008
From: larryradio at worldnet.att.net (Larry Tighe)
Date: Sat Mar 22 11:10:20 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] IDed by Larry
References: <004e01c88c32$baf17960$5888fea9@dwilegal>
Message-ID: <001301c88c36$508909e0$0200a8c0@LARRYTIGHE>

I have that "solid state" w/filters WECo decoder with the wheel and pegs. 
Also the control head somewhere around here.  I'm saving them as I'm sure 
when the transistor/computer fad is over, there'll be a line at my front 
door with people offering huge sums of cash for all my PreProg and Prog 
telephone sets :>)

I believe the low band channels were ZR and ZJ...am I correct?

lar 

From wa2hwj at att.net  Sat Mar 22 13:07:49 2008
From: wa2hwj at att.net (wa2hwj@att.net)
Date: Sat Mar 22 13:14:08 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] IDed by Larry
Message-ID: <032220081807.2708.47E54AF5000025F300000A9422218865869B0A02D29B9B0EBF069908CD0E99@att.net>

And I have the market cornered on 2 meter and 440 Progress Line crystals. 
Ha!

Jack WA2HWJ

NNNN


-------------- Original message from "Larry Tighe" <larryradio@worldnet.att.net>: -------------- 


> I have that "solid state" w/filters WECo decoder with the wheel and pegs. 
> Also the control head somewhere around here. I'm saving them as I'm sure 
> when the transistor/computer fad is over, there'll be a line at my front 
> door with people offering huge sums of cash for all my PreProg and Prog 
> telephone sets :>) 
> 
> I believe the low band channels were ZR and ZJ...am I correct? 
> 
> lar 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> GreenKeys mailing list 
> GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net 
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys 
From k9tty at dls.net  Sat Mar 22 16:34:36 2008
From: k9tty at dls.net (Don Robert House)
Date: Sat Mar 22 16:40:53 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] IDed by Larry
In-Reply-To: <001301c88c36$508909e0$0200a8c0@LARRYTIGHE>
References: <004e01c88c32$baf17960$5888fea9@dwilegal>
	<001301c88c36$508909e0$0200a8c0@LARRYTIGHE>
Message-ID: <701D6A25-2DB2-4204-B8E5-E74F86D65AAA@dls.net>

I am probably wrong but most mobile channels were J with a letter  
after them of course that could be for IMTS.

I will go back under my rock.

Don


On 22 Mar 2008, at 11:03 AM, Larry Tighe wrote:

I have that "solid state" w/filters WECo decoder with the wheel and  
pegs. Also the control head somewhere around here.  I'm saving them as  
I'm sure when the transistor/computer fad is over, there'll be a line  
at my front door with people offering huge sums of cash for all my  
PreProg and Prog telephone sets :>)

I believe the low band channels were ZR and ZJ...am I correct?

lar
_______________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys

From jhhaynes at earthlink.net  Sat Mar 22 16:43:29 2008
From: jhhaynes at earthlink.net (Jim Haynes)
Date: Sat Mar 22 16:49:55 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] IDed by Larry
In-Reply-To: <701D6A25-2DB2-4204-B8E5-E74F86D65AAA@dls.net>
References: <004e01c88c32$baf17960$5888fea9@dwilegal>
	<001301c88c36$508909e0$0200a8c0@LARRYTIGHE>
	<701D6A25-2DB2-4204-B8E5-E74F86D65AAA@dls.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.1.00.0803221641090.4113@Frances>

The system I remember was called Highway Mobile Radio Telephone Service
and used the low VHF band Motorola and G.E. equipment.  There were
six frequency pairs, I think allocated to six different regions of
the U.S.  Most mobile sets operated in only one region; but I remember
once seeing a set that had a selector switch for all six.  The
telephone numbers were Z followed by one of A through F for the
frequency pair, and then the other five digits were used by the
selector mechanism.



From k9tty at dls.net  Sat Mar 22 16:51:51 2008
From: k9tty at dls.net (Don Robert House)
Date: Sat Mar 22 16:58:09 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] IDed by Larry
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.1.00.0803221641090.4113@Frances>
References: <004e01c88c32$baf17960$5888fea9@dwilegal>
	<001301c88c36$508909e0$0200a8c0@LARRYTIGHE>
	<701D6A25-2DB2-4204-B8E5-E74F86D65AAA@dls.net>
	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803221641090.4113@Frances>
Message-ID: <95047863-B82C-4E1B-BFBC-2AE9CE5E2BDE@dls.net>

Yes Jim,

I was remembering IMTS (Improved Mobile Telephone Service) Channels  
which started with J

You are correct.  Somewhere here I have a 1947 Bell Telephone News  
with a description of Highway Mobile Radio Telephone Service.
They show it in use between Chicago and Springfield, Illinois.  The  
equipment takes up about 50 percent of the trunk.
The BTN also shows the Bell pin-up of the month.  My my how things  
have changed.

Don


On 22 Mar 2008, at 4:43 PM, Jim Haynes wrote:

The system I remember was called Highway Mobile Radio Telephone Service
and used the low VHF band Motorola and G.E. equipment.  There were
six frequency pairs, I think allocated to six different regions of
the U.S.  Most mobile sets operated in only one region; but I remember
once seeing a set that had a selector switch for all six.  The
telephone numbers were Z followed by one of A through F for the
frequency pair, and then the other five digits were used by the
selector mechanism.




From k9tty at dls.net  Sat Mar 22 23:23:35 2008
From: k9tty at dls.net (Don Robert House)
Date: Sat Mar 22 23:29:58 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] PARTS NEEDED
Message-ID: <60A2E8BF-E734-4344-8900-A0FF71052E48@dls.net>

The missing insulator I need for my CU-937/UR antenna coupler is  
described as follows:

INSULATOR ASSY= 4.0 IN. DIA. 3.188 IN. THK, PORCELAIN
INSULATOR, BRASS STUD, 8000 VOLTS PEAK AT 2MHZ
TO 2000 VOTS PEAK AT 30 MHZ=MFR 75389  PN H-71194-A,
14304 DWG 0026-3070.  ATTACHING PARTS XAL(4)  XAM(4)

As of August 1972 MFR 75389 was no longer listed.

I also need:
1 Each CONNECTOR, AN3106E-28-12S (CANNON)

IF YOU CAN HELP - PLEASE LET ME KNOW.

THANKS,

DON - K9TTY

Don R. House
k9tty@dls.net
(815) 653-0683
Ringwood, Illinois
From k9tty at dls.net  Sat Mar 22 23:29:52 2008
From: k9tty at dls.net (Don Robert House)
Date: Sat Mar 22 23:36:21 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: VOLTS NOT VOTS
In-Reply-To: <60A2E8BF-E734-4344-8900-A0FF71052E48@dls.net>
References: <60A2E8BF-E734-4344-8900-A0FF71052E48@dls.net>
Message-ID: <69E42DB4-F2C7-4E60-86E1-335E0764BFA7@dls.net>

THAT'S VOLTS  --- NOT VOTS!

I guess I am getting tired.

Good night from the frozen north.

Don K9TTY


On 22 Mar 2008, at 11:23 PM, Don Robert House wrote:

The missing insulator I need for my CU-937/UR antenna coupler is  
described as follows:

INSULATOR ASSY= 4.0 IN. DIA. 3.188 IN. THK, PORCELAIN
INSULATOR, BRASS STUD, 8000 VOLTS PEAK AT 2MHZ
TO 2000 VOTS PEAK AT 30 MHZ=MFR 75389  PN H-71194-A,
14304 DWG 0026-3070.  ATTACHING PARTS XAL(4)  XAM(4)

As of August 1972 MFR 75389 was no longer listed.

I also need:
1 Each CONNECTOR, AN3106E-28-12S (CANNON)

IF YOU CAN HELP - PLEASE LET ME KNOW.

THANKS,

DON - K9TTY

Don R. House
k9tty@dls.net
(815) 653-0683
Ringwood, Illinois
_______________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys

From duncanancy at earthlink.net  Sun Mar 23 15:23:05 2008
From: duncanancy at earthlink.net (Duncan M. Brown)
Date: Sun Mar 23 15:29:13 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Early Mobile Telephone equipment
Message-ID: <380-22008302320235297@earthlink.net>

Anyone with early mobile telephone equipment that you don't know what to do
with, the Antique Wireless Assoc. Museum would appreciate having it.  I
have put together a small display of IMTS & early cellular equipment for
the Museum, but we do not have anything prior to IMTS.


A little more history:

The first Bell System Mobile Telephone service began in St. Louis 17 June
1946 on on six channels (120 Kc spacing) in the 152/158 Mc band.  These
channels were later split into 60 Kc and then 30Kc channel spacings and
were given two-letter desiginations starting with "J" or "Y": JL, YL, JP,
etc. (were one of these letter groups the earlier pre-split channels?). 
There were plans to split the channels again into 15 Kc channels with "X"
designators: eg XJ, XK, etc.  This was never instituted in the US as the
Cellular channels were finally opened. (But they were in use in Canada in
1985.)

The Mobile Telephone Highway service started in 1947 in the Boston to New
York City corridor on 35/44 Mc. and used "Z" designators: ZO, ZF, ZH, etc.
As of 1985, there were still two dozen cities in the US using the Z
channels. These channels were shut down in about 1988.

In 1956, 12 UHF channels with 25 Kc spacing were made available in the
454/459 Mc band and had channel designators starting with "Q": eg QC, QJ,
QD, etc.

In 1953, AT&T proposed to the FCC a "broadband" mobile telephone system
operating in the 800Mc region. But it took until 1978 for the first
cellular test system to go on the air and not until 1983 for the first
commercial cellular system to go on the air (in Chicago).

IMTS started in 1964 with field trials in Harrisburg, PA.  It was initally
known as "Interim Mobile Telephone Service" ("interim" until cellular was
available).  When they realized that cellular was a ways off, it was
changed to "Improved".


Duncan Brown, K2OEQ

AWA Electronic Communication Museum
http://www.antiquewireless.org

From nerd at verizon.net  Sun Mar 23 15:55:06 2008
From: nerd at verizon.net (Peter Gottlieb)
Date: Sun Mar 23 16:01:31 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Early Mobile Telephone equipment
In-Reply-To: <380-22008302320235297@earthlink.net>
References: <380-22008302320235297@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <47E6C3AA.1060808@verizon.net>

I do remember a bunch about the IMTS system.  I was sent to a course on 
setting up one of the latter Motorola IMTS base stations then supervised 
and signed off on one such install.  I also had a UHF units in my car, 
it was the really big and heavy one which used a varactor tripler to get 
into the 450 MHz area.  The PAs were somewhat unreliable.  The 
supervisory board was a mass of discrete components and always fun to 
work on.  These units used channel elements (crystals mounted in their 
own cans with oscillators).  Later on Motorola came out with the 
synthesized Pulsar mobiles which were much better.

There were two sets of channels for each city in both VHF and UHF.  One 
set was for the monopoly carrier (eg, Bell System) and the other set for 
the new independent carrier.  There were very few channels as you note 
and there was a significant waiting list to get a phone.  If I remember 
correctly, it was 6 years in the NYC area.  The IMTS was a dialtone 
system; when you went off-hook your phone had an interaction with the 
base system where your phone number was sent in and then you got a 
dialtone.  Dialing was rotary and tone encoded with parity tones.  When 
that CO in NYC burned down the Bell System "commandeered" the IMTS 
systems and used them for emergency communications with cars driving 
around making important calls for people until basic phone service was 
restored.

The phones had only 7 digits of phone number setting.  In the Bell 
system, the phone number (which was set with jumpers in the phone) was 3 
digits for the area code then the last four digits of your mobile 
number.  Independents did whatever they wanted, some followed this, 
others didn't.

I had a big fat HT-220 which had a bunch of the IMTS channels crystalled 
and I could talk to the operator and get her to connect me if I said 
some magic words.  This had been loaned to me from one of my clients and 
they refused to take it back later.  I think I gave it away when the 
battery would no longer hold a charge.

When I bought my first cellular phone Motorola had a deal where you 
would get a $500 credit if you turned in your old phone and believe it 
or not they took my ancient IMTS unit and I did get that check from 
them.  I still see the mobile units and control heads at hamfests.

Word from an insider at Motorola was that the first cellular trial in 
NYC was faked.  There was a tech pulling the levers behind the curtain, 
the automatic part was not yet ready.  Nevertheless, the technology 
behind the idea was sound and developed into the revolution that cell 
phones became.

Peter




Duncan M. Brown wrote:
> Anyone with early mobile telephone equipment that you don't know what to do
> with, the Antique Wireless Assoc. Museum would appreciate having it.  I
> have put together a small display of IMTS & early cellular equipment for
> the Museum, but we do not have anything prior to IMTS.
>
>
> A little more history:
>
> The first Bell System Mobile Telephone service began in St. Louis 17 June
> 1946 on on six channels (120 Kc spacing) in the 152/158 Mc band.  These
> channels were later split into 60 Kc and then 30Kc channel spacings and
> were given two-letter desiginations starting with "J" or "Y": JL, YL, JP,
> etc. (were one of these letter groups the earlier pre-split channels?). 
> There were plans to split the channels again into 15 Kc channels with "X"
> designators: eg XJ, XK, etc.  This was never instituted in the US as the
> Cellular channels were finally opened. (But they were in use in Canada in
> 1985.)
>
> The Mobile Telephone Highway service started in 1947 in the Boston to New
> York City corridor on 35/44 Mc. and used "Z" designators: ZO, ZF, ZH, etc.
> As of 1985, there were still two dozen cities in the US using the Z
> channels. These channels were shut down in about 1988.
>
> In 1956, 12 UHF channels with 25 Kc spacing were made available in the
> 454/459 Mc band and had channel designators starting with "Q": eg QC, QJ,
> QD, etc.
>
> In 1953, AT&T proposed to the FCC a "broadband" mobile telephone system
> operating in the 800Mc region. But it took until 1978 for the first
> cellular test system to go on the air and not until 1983 for the first
> commercial cellular system to go on the air (in Chicago).
>
> IMTS started in 1964 with field trials in Harrisburg, PA.  It was initally
> known as "Interim Mobile Telephone Service" ("interim" until cellular was
> available).  When they realized that cellular was a ways off, it was
> changed to "Improved".
>
>
> Duncan Brown, K2OEQ
>
> AWA Electronic Communication Museum
> http://www.antiquewireless.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>
>   
From k9tty at dls.net  Sun Mar 23 18:35:38 2008
From: k9tty at dls.net (Don Robert House)
Date: Sun Mar 23 18:42:04 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Early Mobile Telephone equipment
In-Reply-To: <380-22008302320235297@earthlink.net>
References: <380-22008302320235297@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5FEBD3FB-8D81-439A-B1D4-0FBE26C436C7@dls.net>

Thanks Duncan,

It is good to know I haven't lost it completely.  We had a Mobile  
Telephone Shop in Mundelein, Illinois
The "Proprietor" was "Mobile Joe"  The place was just like a museum.   
All the gear required for maintenance
of the systems from 1947 to 1997.  It was said that Joe could fix  
anything electrical and portable.

Don
Bell System Retired



On 23 Mar 2008, at 3:23 PM, Duncan M. Brown wrote:

Anyone with early mobile telephone equipment that you don't know what  
to do
with, the Antique Wireless Assoc. Museum would appreciate having it.  I
have put together a small display of IMTS & early cellular equipment for
the Museum, but we do not have anything prior to IMTS.


A little more history:

The first Bell System Mobile Telephone service began in St. Louis 17  
June
1946 on on six channels (120 Kc spacing) in the 152/158 Mc band.  These
channels were later split into 60 Kc and then 30Kc channel spacings and
were given two-letter desiginations starting with "J" or "Y": JL, YL,  
JP,
etc. (were one of these letter groups the earlier pre-split channels?).
There were plans to split the channels again into 15 Kc channels with  
"X"
designators: eg XJ, XK, etc.  This was never instituted in the US as the
Cellular channels were finally opened. (But they were in use in Canada  
in
1985.)

The Mobile Telephone Highway service started in 1947 in the Boston to  
New
York City corridor on 35/44 Mc. and used "Z" designators: ZO, ZF, ZH,  
etc.
As of 1985, there were still two dozen cities in the US using the Z
channels. These channels were shut down in about 1988.

In 1956, 12 UHF channels with 25 Kc spacing were made available in the
454/459 Mc band and had channel designators starting with "Q": eg QC,  
QJ,
QD, etc.

In 1953, AT&T proposed to the FCC a "broadband" mobile telephone system
operating in the 800Mc region. But it took until 1978 for the first
cellular test system to go on the air and not until 1983 for the first
commercial cellular system to go on the air (in Chicago).

IMTS started in 1964 with field trials in Harrisburg, PA.  It was  
initally
known as "Interim Mobile Telephone Service" ("interim" until cellular  
was
available).  When they realized that cellular was a ways off, it was
changed to "Improved".


Duncan Brown, K2OEQ

AWA Electronic Communication Museum
http://www.antiquewireless.org

_______________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys

From k9tty at dls.net  Sun Mar 23 19:18:03 2008
From: k9tty at dls.net (Don Robert House)
Date: Sun Mar 23 19:24:39 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Early Mobile Telephone and associated equipment
In-Reply-To: <47E6C3AA.1060808@verizon.net>
References: <380-22008302320235297@earthlink.net>
	<47E6C3AA.1060808@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <C640F171-558A-4E2E-B6A3-EE26BC9BDE26@dls.net>

Happy Easter from the area of two Valentines Day Massacres.

When I was transferred to transmission engineering at Illinois Bell,  
we had a district level and staff for radio systems.  The group had a  
1 ton Ford van with every kind of radio telephone the company had in  
service.  What a monster.  The roof looked like a porcupine with so  
many antennas.  If it was black instead of white people would have  
thought it was a Secret Service van.  When I had to make field trips I  
would borrow the van instead of driving one of the tiny coupes they  
wanted us to get from the motor pool.  Trying to maneuver that big van  
up a circular drive from a basement garage was quite a trick.  You had  
to keep blowing the horn so that no one would try to drive down at the  
same time you were driving up.

  We had our problems with AMPS (Advanced Mobile Phone Service) in  
Chicago.  An easy place to trial cellular since MOTO is headquartered  
in the suburbs.  Early sets were still quite large and had separate  
control heads like IMTS, and two antennas on the trunk lid.  In the  
beginning there were not enough cell sites and the switching was not  
always reliable.  The company's executive limos (navy blue Lincoln  
Town Cars) were all equipped with this early cellular equipment.  In  
those days the equipment was very expensive.  As more sites were  
installed the service became quite reliable until the phones started  
to become miniaturized.

The first couple of designs of miniature and sub-miniature cellular  
phones were provided to the same limos and the earlier larger sets  
were removed.  A big mistake.  The small sets would frequently drop  
calls.  The chauffeurs were responsible for the security of the phones.

One day the first Chairman of Ameritech was talking on one of the new  
small phones on Lake Shore Drive.  He lost a call he thought was  
important.  He had the chauffeur pull over and he through the phone  
into Lake Michigan.  This worried the chauffeur.  He reported the  
incident to his foreman as soon as he returned to the company garage.

The foreman told him "If the CEO wants to go for a drive every day  
along the lakefront and toss a phone in the lake, don't worry about  
it.  Just let me know how many phones I need to order every friday  
afternoon."

The chairman was, and I suppose, still is one of those egomaniacs that  
are "legends in their own minds!  He felt he was so important he  
developed a staff larger than AT&T had and had two 727s and four  
pilots in a hangar at Midway Airport.  In 1984 because of the funding  
of Ameritech, Illinois Bell fell from No. 1 earner in the Bell System  
to No. 19. Right down there near Southwestern Bell, system earner  
number 22.

There are other stories but no one would believe them.  Like picking  
up components at Newark on Chicago's west side.  11 foot cyclone  
fencing with razor wire and electrically operated "air locks" for  
secure entry and exit.  Then there was East St. Louis,  Illinois, the  
only place in the Bell System where a cable splicer was shot for his  
wallet.  The central office had two armed guards at each entrance  
24/7.  If you were in the building after 4 p.m. you were required to  
stay overnight in a bunk room.  No one will admit to it but 90 percent  
of the employees were armed.  No one went on a job alone.

Perhaps someone would like to write about the trials of  
teletypewriters in police cars.  It would be a little more on subject  
than mobile phones...


Don
Ye Olde Telephone Man



On 23 Mar 2008, at 3:55 PM, Peter Gottlieb wrote:

I do remember a bunch about the IMTS system.  I was sent to a course  
on setting up one of the latter Motorola IMTS base stations then  
supervised and signed off on one such install.  I also had a UHF units  
in my car, it was the really big and heavy one which used a varactor  
tripler to get into the 450 MHz area.  The PAs were somewhat  
unreliable.  The supervisory board was a mass of discrete components  
and always fun to work on.  These units used channel elements  
(crystals mounted in their own cans with oscillators).  Later on  
Motorola came out with the synthesized Pulsar mobiles which were much  
better.

There were two sets of channels for each city in both VHF and UHF.   
One set was for the monopoly carrier (eg, Bell System) and the other  
set for the new independent carrier.  There were very few channels as  
you note and there was a significant waiting list to get a phone.  If  
I remember correctly, it was 6 years in the NYC area.  The IMTS was a  
dialtone system; when you went off-hook your phone had an interaction  
with the base system where your phone number was sent in and then you  
got a dialtone.  Dialing was rotary and tone encoded with parity  
tones.  When that CO in NYC burned down the Bell System "commandeered"  
the IMTS systems and used them for emergency communications with cars  
driving around making important calls for people until basic phone  
service was restored.

The phones had only 7 digits of phone number setting.  In the Bell  
system, the phone number (which was set with jumpers in the phone) was  
3 digits for the area code then the last four digits of your mobile  
number.  Independents did whatever they wanted, some followed this,  
others didn't.

I had a big fat HT-220 which had a bunch of the IMTS channels  
crystalled and I could talk to the operator and get her to connect me  
if I said some magic words.  This had been loaned to me from one of my  
clients and they refused to take it back later.  I think I gave it  
away when the battery would no longer hold a charge.

When I bought my first cellular phone Motorola had a deal where you  
would get a $500 credit if you turned in your old phone and believe it  
or not they took my ancient IMTS unit and I did get that check from  
them.  I still see the mobile units and control heads at hamfests.

Word from an insider at Motorola was that the first cellular trial in  
NYC was faked.  There was a tech pulling the levers behind the  
curtain, the automatic part was not yet ready.  Nevertheless, the  
technology behind the idea was sound and developed into the revolution  
that cell phones became.

Peter




Duncan M. Brown wrote:
> Anyone with early mobile telephone equipment that you don't know  
> what to do
> with, the Antique Wireless Assoc. Museum would appreciate having  
> it.  I
> have put together a small display of IMTS & early cellular equipment  
> for
> the Museum, but we do not have anything prior to IMTS.
>
>
> A little more history:
>
> The first Bell System Mobile Telephone service began in St. Louis 17  
> June
> 1946 on on six channels (120 Kc spacing) in the 152/158 Mc band.   
> These
> channels were later split into 60 Kc and then 30Kc channel spacings  
> and
> were given two-letter desiginations starting with "J" or "Y": JL,  
> YL, JP,
> etc. (were one of these letter groups the earlier pre-split  
> channels?). There were plans to split the channels again into 15 Kc  
> channels with "X"
> designators: eg XJ, XK, etc.  This was never instituted in the US as  
> the
> Cellular channels were finally opened. (But they were in use in  
> Canada in
> 1985.)
>
> The Mobile Telephone Highway service started in 1947 in the Boston  
> to New
> York City corridor on 35/44 Mc. and used "Z" designators: ZO, ZF,  
> ZH, etc.
> As of 1985, there were still two dozen cities in the US using the Z
> channels. These channels were shut down in about 1988.
>
> In 1956, 12 UHF channels with 25 Kc spacing were made available in the
> 454/459 Mc band and had channel designators starting with "Q": eg  
> QC, QJ,
> QD, etc.
>
> In 1953, AT&T proposed to the FCC a "broadband" mobile telephone  
> system
> operating in the 800Mc region. But it took until 1978 for the first
> cellular test system to go on the air and not until 1983 for the first
> commercial cellular system to go on the air (in Chicago).
>
> IMTS started in 1964 with field trials in Harrisburg, PA.  It was  
> initally
> known as "Interim Mobile Telephone Service" ("interim" until  
> cellular was
> available).  When they realized that cellular was a ways off, it was
> changed to "Improved".
>
>
> Duncan Brown, K2OEQ
>
> AWA Electronic Communication Museum
> http://www.antiquewireless.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>
>
_______________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys

From duncanancy at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 24 09:48:15 2008
From: duncanancy at earthlink.net (Duncan M. Brown)
Date: Mon Mar 24 09:54:28 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Dovetron Solid State Display
Message-ID: <380-220083124144815892@earthlink.net>


 
Finally got a chance to look into one of our Dovetron MPC-1000R-II
converters that had a dead bar-graph tuning display (other LEDs on the SSD
were OK).  The LM 3914 bar graph drivers both seem to be dead ( no
reference voltage on pin 7).  
 
It seems strange that both parts would have failed the same way.  Is this a
known problem with the Dovetron SSD?
 
Surprisingly, both Jameco & Digikey still carry this part; so no problem in
fixing it; just wondering why both failed in the same way.
 
 
have fun & 73,
 
Duncan Brown, K2OEQ
 
Chief TTY operator & repairman
AWA Electronic Communication Museum
http://www.antiquewireless.org/
 


From 65cyclone at sbcglobal.net  Sun Mar 23 22:36:18 2008
From: 65cyclone at sbcglobal.net (EDW HICKEY)
Date: Mon Mar 24 11:39:23 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: Early Mobile Telephone and associated equipment
In-Reply-To: <C640F171-558A-4E2E-B6A3-EE26BC9BDE26@dls.net>
Message-ID: <88366.62663.qm@web81505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

When I was 13 or 14 years old (1961 or 1962) I had an Emerson console TV that had continuous tuning.  The channel selector was Hi band and low band.  You received channels 2 thru 6 on the Low and 7 thru 13 on the High.  If you tuned above 6 and below 7 you could listen to Chicago Mobile Telephone calls.
   
  This has nothing to do with anything but it was an interesting TV.
   
  

Don Robert House <k9tty@dls.net> wrote:
  Happy Easter from the area of two Valentines Day Massacres.

When I was transferred to transmission engineering at Illinois Bell, 
we had a district level and staff for radio systems. The group had a 
1 ton Ford van with every kind of radio telephone the company had in 
service. What a monster. The roof looked like a porcupine with so 
many antennas. If it was black instead of white people would have 
thought it was a Secret Service van. When I had to make field trips I 
would borrow the van instead of driving one of the tiny coupes they 
wanted us to get from the motor pool. Trying to maneuver that big van 
up a circular drive from a basement garage was quite a trick. You had 
to keep blowing the horn so that no one would try to drive down at the 
same time you were driving up.

We had our problems with AMPS (Advanced Mobile Phone Service) in 
Chicago. An easy place to trial cellular since MOTO is headquartered 
in the suburbs. Early sets were still quite large and had separate 
control heads like IMTS, and two antennas on the trunk lid. In the 
beginning there were not enough cell sites and the switching was not 
always reliable. The company's executive limos (navy blue Lincoln 
Town Cars) were all equipped with this early cellular equipment. In 
those days the equipment was very expensive. As more sites were 
installed the service became quite reliable until the phones started 
to become miniaturized.

The first couple of designs of miniature and sub-miniature cellular 
phones were provided to the same limos and the earlier larger sets 
were removed. A big mistake. The small sets would frequently drop 
calls. The chauffeurs were responsible for the security of the phones.

One day the first Chairman of Ameritech was talking on one of the new 
small phones on Lake Shore Drive. He lost a call he thought was 
important. He had the chauffeur pull over and he through the phone 
into Lake Michigan. This worried the chauffeur. He reported the 
incident to his foreman as soon as he returned to the company garage.

The foreman told him "If the CEO wants to go for a drive every day 
along the lakefront and toss a phone in the lake, don't worry about 
it. Just let me know how many phones I need to order every friday 
afternoon."

The chairman was, and I suppose, still is one of those egomaniacs that 
are "legends in their own minds! He felt he was so important he 
developed a staff larger than AT&T had and had two 727s and four 
pilots in a hangar at Midway Airport. In 1984 because of the funding 
of Ameritech, Illinois Bell fell from No. 1 earner in the Bell System 
to No. 19. Right down there near Southwestern Bell, system earner 
number 22.

There are other stories but no one would believe them. Like picking 
up components at Newark on Chicago's west side. 11 foot cyclone 
fencing with razor wire and electrically operated "air locks" for 
secure entry and exit. Then there was East St. Louis, Illinois, the 
only place in the Bell System where a cable splicer was shot for his 
wallet. The central office had two armed guards at each entrance 
24/7. If you were in the building after 4 p.m. you were required to 
stay overnight in a bunk room. No one will admit to it but 90 percent 
of the employees were armed. No one went on a job alone.

Perhaps someone would like to write about the trials of 
teletypewriters in police cars. It would be a little more on subject 
than mobile phones...


Don
Ye Olde Telephone Man



On 23 Mar 2008, at 3:55 PM, Peter Gottlieb wrote:

I do remember a bunch about the IMTS system. I was sent to a course 
on setting up one of the latter Motorola IMTS base stations then 
supervised and signed off on one such install. I also had a UHF units 
in my car, it was the really big and heavy one which used a varactor 
tripler to get into the 450 MHz area. The PAs were somewhat 
unreliable. The supervisory board was a mass of discrete components 
and always fun to work on. These units used channel elements 
(crystals mounted in their own cans with oscillators). Later on 
Motorola came out with the synthesized Pulsar mobiles which were much 
better.

There were two sets of channels for each city in both VHF and UHF. 
One set was for the monopoly carrier (eg, Bell System) and the other 
set for the new independent carrier. There were very few channels as 
you note and there was a significant waiting list to get a phone. If 
I remember correctly, it was 6 years in the NYC area. The IMTS was a 
dialtone system; when you went off-hook your phone had an interaction 
with the base system where your phone number was sent in and then you 
got a dialtone. Dialing was rotary and tone encoded with parity 
tones. When that CO in NYC burned down the Bell System "commandeered" 
the IMTS systems and used them for emergency communications with cars 
driving around making important calls for people until basic phone 
service was restored.

The phones had only 7 digits of phone number setting. In the Bell 
system, the phone number (which was set with jumpers in the phone) was 
3 digits for the area code then the last four digits of your mobile 
number. Independents did whatever they wanted, some followed this, 
others didn't.

I had a big fat HT-220 which had a bunch of the IMTS channels 
crystalled and I could talk to the operator and get her to connect me 
if I said some magic words. This had been loaned to me from one of my 
clients and they refused to take it back later. I think I gave it 
away when the battery would no longer hold a charge.

When I bought my first cellular phone Motorola had a deal where you 
would get a $500 credit if you turned in your old phone and believe it 
or not they took my ancient IMTS unit and I did get that check from 
them. I still see the mobile units and control heads at hamfests.

Word from an insider at Motorola was that the first cellular trial in 
NYC was faked. There was a tech pulling the levers behind the 
curtain, the automatic part was not yet ready. Nevertheless, the 
technology behind the idea was sound and developed into the revolution 
that cell phones became.

Peter




Duncan M. Brown wrote:
> Anyone with early mobile telephone equipment that you don't know 
> what to do
> with, the Antique Wireless Assoc. Museum would appreciate having 
> it. I
> have put together a small display of IMTS & early cellular equipment 
> for
> the Museum, but we do not have anything prior to IMTS.
>
>
> A little more history:
>
> The first Bell System Mobile Telephone service began in St. Louis 17 
> June
> 1946 on on six channels (120 Kc spacing) in the 152/158 Mc band. 
> These
> channels were later split into 60 Kc and then 30Kc channel spacings 
> and
> were given two-letter desiginations starting with "J" or "Y": JL, 
> YL, JP,
> etc. (were one of these letter groups the earlier pre-split 
> channels?). There were plans to split the channels again into 15 Kc 
> channels with "X"
> designators: eg XJ, XK, etc. This was never instituted in the US as 
> the
> Cellular channels were finally opened. (But they were in use in 
> Canada in
> 1985.)
>
> The Mobile Telephone Highway service started in 1947 in the Boston 
> to New
> York City corridor on 35/44 Mc. and used "Z" designators: ZO, ZF, 
> ZH, etc.
> As of 1985, there were still two dozen cities in the US using the Z
> channels. These channels were shut down in about 1988.
>
> In 1956, 12 UHF channels with 25 Kc spacing were made available in the
> 454/459 Mc band and had channel designators starting with "Q": eg 
> QC, QJ,
> QD, etc.
>
> In 1953, AT&T proposed to the FCC a "broadband" mobile telephone 
> system
> operating in the 800Mc region. But it took until 1978 for the first
> cellular test system to go on the air and not until 1983 for the first
> commercial cellular system to go on the air (in Chicago).
>
> IMTS started in 1964 with field trials in Harrisburg, PA. It was 
> initally
> known as "Interim Mobile Telephone Service" ("interim" until 
> cellular was
> available). When they realized that cellular was a ways off, it was
> changed to "Improved".
>
>
> Duncan Brown, K2OEQ
>
> AWA Electronic Communication Museum
> http://www.antiquewireless.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>
>
_______________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys


From larryradio at worldnet.att.net  Mon Mar 24 11:34:22 2008
From: larryradio at worldnet.att.net (Larry Tighe)
Date: Mon Mar 24 11:42:55 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: Early Mobile Telephone and associated equipment
References: <88366.62663.qm@web81505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <030c01c88dcc$ebec8410$2000a8c0@ljt>

I would bet that was the Mallory "Inductuner" found in the DuMont TV's also. 
FM was between the Hi and Low VHF tv channels.  Yes???

Lar
K2JIA
www.antiquetelephone.com

>
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 11:36 PM
Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: Early Mobile Telephone and associated equipment


> When I was 13 or 14 years old (1961 or 1962) I had an Emerson console TV 
> that had continuous tuning.  The channel selector was Hi band and low 
> band.  You received channels 2 thru 6 on the Low and 7 thru 13 on the 
> High.  If you tuned above 6 and below 7 you could listen to Chicago Mobile 
> Telephone calls.
>
>  This has nothing to do with anything but it was an interesting TV.

From nerd at verizon.net  Mon Mar 24 11:49:38 2008
From: nerd at verizon.net (Peter Gottlieb)
Date: Mon Mar 24 11:56:23 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: Early Mobile Telephone and associated equipment
In-Reply-To: <030c01c88dcc$ebec8410$2000a8c0@ljt>
References: <88366.62663.qm@web81505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<030c01c88dcc$ebec8410$2000a8c0@ljt>
Message-ID: <47E7DBA2.3000803@verizon.net>

I don't remember if it was that exact tuner but I did have a big monster 
Dumont with a tuner that did that.  I remember the CRT had a *metal* 2nd 
anode part!  Boy oh boy did that collect dust!  And don't even THINK of 
working on that chassis live!  It had something like 70 tubes and two 
5U4 rectifier tubes.

Peter


Larry Tighe wrote:
> I would bet that was the Mallory "Inductuner" found in the DuMont TV's 
> also. FM was between the Hi and Low VHF tv channels.  Yes???
>
> Lar
> K2JIA
> www.antiquetelephone.com
>
>>
> Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 11:36 PM
> Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: Early Mobile Telephone and associated equipment
>
>
>> When I was 13 or 14 years old (1961 or 1962) I had an Emerson console 
>> TV that had continuous tuning.  The channel selector was Hi band and 
>> low band.  You received channels 2 thru 6 on the Low and 7 thru 13 on 
>> the High.  If you tuned above 6 and below 7 you could listen to 
>> Chicago Mobile Telephone calls.
>>
>>  This has nothing to do with anything but it was an interesting TV.
>
>
From wb6nvh at mbay.net  Mon Mar 24 13:52:13 2008
From: wb6nvh at mbay.net (Geoff Fors)
Date: Mon Mar 24 13:00:59 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Western Electric Bell System Mobile
Message-ID: <000201c88de0$9263e4b0$a2705142@dell9e4qu991xu>

Finding lots of interesting stuff here, I have just joined the list.

Duncan beat me to it, but further to the discussion of the Bell System
marked mobile receiver which Derek asked about, I can expand on this subject
a bit.   Some of the info below duplicates Duncan's message.   I am in the
process of putting together the mother of
all Bell System Mobile Telephone History web sites, but as it isn't ready
yet, here is some information:

The receiver shown does indeed look very much like a GE Pre-Progress low
band receiver, but if you look very carefully, you will see that it isn't!
GE receivers had green-painted covers with no louvers, not to mention a huge
red "GE" emblem.  This one is a Western Electric 38A VHF FM receiver
developed in 1945 primarily for the MTS car telephone system which the FCC
finally approved in 1946.  It was made by Western Electric and is a
miniature tube, updated version of the larger Type 28 and 28A VHF receivers
which they were making before the War for police and coastal/harbor
radiotelephone use.  The example in the
Derek's photo is missing the rotary stepper wheel decoder, which was covered
with a clear glass dome.  This was WE's last in-house mobile radio, as all
later car telephone equipment was supplied by GE and Motorola with added KS-
numbers by Western Electric.  There was also a companion Western Electric
Type 38 transmitter.  When the two were put together, it became the Type
238A mobile station.  There was also a Type 39A receiver (low band) and its
companion 39 Series transmitter.  Either of these setups used the Type 41A
under-dash control head, which stored the handset in an odd pocket on the
bottom half.  They were push-to-talk half-duplex operator assisted systems.

The first public Bell MTS car phone system went on the air in St. Louis in
June, 1946, on 152 MHz and was part of the "Urban" system (VHF high band.)
Shortly afterwards the "Highway" system went on the air in Green Bay,
Wisconsin in August, 1946 using 35 MHz channels (cars transmitted on 43
MHz.)    The Highway system followed the major land transportation routes
and was designed for use by truckers and that sort of thing.  Urban was as
its name implies.

The original low band channels were:  ZO, ZM, ZF, ZB, ZA, ZH and ZL.
The original high band channels were:  WJ, WR, JL, JP, JR and JS.

At first, equipment was generally single channel and tied to its home area.

After the FCC mandated narrow band changes in 1963, there became 11 USA high
band channels, namely: JL, YL, JP, YP, YJ, YK, JS, YS, YR, JK and JR.  The
low band channels became ZO, ZF, ZH, ZM, ZA, ZY, ZR, ZB, ZW and ZL.  Low
band remained half-duplex MTS and high band became a mixture of MTS, IMTS
and IMTS systems operating in the manual mode (still operator assisted.)

The first GE and Motorola two-piece equipment sold to WE specs had an
external decoder in a small metal case, the Type 106A Selector Set.  Later
one-piece sets made by GE had the decoder built-in, a Secode product.

I am still looking for a lot of this stuff for my collection and "virtual
museum" which will be on the web site.  Much of it was owned by the Bell
System and only leased to subscribers, so when it was pulled out, it wound
up being destroyed.  I will eventually have .pdf downloads of vintage Bell
System channel maps, manuals, articles and so forth available.

Regarding IMTS, although it was available in 1964, it did not see widespread
adoption on a national basis until the mid 1980's.  California, which
operated one of the largest mobile networks in the world, did not switch to
IMTS until late 1982.
Non-Bell affiliates (such as Con-Tel) used competing systems such as "Dial,"
"Identified Dial" and "Pushbutton Dial" rather than IMTS but still used the
Bell System channel block.  Private companies, called Radio Common Carriers
(RCC), had a block of 7 separate VHF high band channels and did whatever
they pleased, there was no standardization.  Most RCC's were half duplex
push to talk operator-assisted setups.

Sorry to be getting a bit off the RTTY topic, but I noticed that more than a
couple list members seem to be interested in this subject!

Geoff Fors
WB6NVH
Monterey CA


From k9tty at dls.net  Mon Mar 24 17:35:09 2008
From: k9tty at dls.net (Don Robert House)
Date: Mon Mar 24 17:41:49 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: Early Mobile Telephone and associated equipment
In-Reply-To: <77270A09906D59429D83E0A0320D1D9F582A58@misout7msgusr75.ITServices.sbc.com>
References: <380-22008302320235297@earthlink.net>
	<47E6C3AA.1060808@verizon.net>
	<C640F171-558A-4E2E-B6A3-EE26BC9BDE26@dls.net>
	<77270A09906D59429D83E0A0320D1D9F582A58@misout7msgusr75.ITServices.sbc.com>
Message-ID: <BEC3487E-47F0-4C40-9062-71DCC5B0C1AC@dls.net>

Wallace,

Thanks so much for your kind contribution.
It is neat to be able to read some of this history few people know  
about.

God bless,
Don


On 23 Mar 2008, at 9:31 PM, MURRAY, WALLACE W (ATTASIAIT) wrote:

A couple of comments.  The reason for the two antennas was diversity
receivers in the early cell phones.

As far as the teletype in police cars goes, Detroit Police commissioned
a professor at Wayne State University, Bob Leland PE W8??? SK to do a
study in 1968 to 1972 time frame.  He has a grad student, Jack Smith
K8ZOA.  The two borrowed several GE Mastr Pro 450 MHz mobiles from
Michigan Bell (Nick Alympich W8PYW) and modified the limiters so they
could record signal strength with a strip chart recorder.  This was
published in a report. (I had a copy 30 years ago)  They were just
running AFSK Baudot transmission without error correction as I remember
it.  They drove the major streets of Detroit, mapping the signal level.
This really confirmed a Rayleigh model.  Signals fluctuate up and down
by 30 dB over a wave length.

I used this report to get into the radio group.  Michigan Bell had just
installed a Martin Marietta paging system. (Bellboy)  It was running a
800 Baud data rate.  Martin Marietta understood space communications,
but not land mobile digital paging systems.  By using the data in this
report, I suggested that they had 5 one and one half to three mile
radius paging systems, not a continuous coverage system.  Bottom line
was install more transmitters.  An additional 8 sites were added with
higher antennas.  Now the system worked. Then came Pascoag?, FEC, and
other coding schemes. I believe they were using Mighty Might or other
printers.  I will check and get back to you.  I do not believe it was a
Model 15 or Model 28.  By the way, Bob Leland was the first ham I know
who had a Model 28.  His dad Ralph Leland was a retired District Plant
manager.  He was also a ham and involved in Teletype.  He was one of the
hams you contacted that ran the RTTY Society of Michigan who would help
you get a Model 15 or 19.

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Robert House [mailto:k9tty@dls.net]
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 8:18 PM
To: nerd@verizon.net; Duncan-Nancy Brown
Cc: Greenkeys
Subject: Early Mobile Telephone and associated equipment

Happy Easter from the area of two Valentines Day Massacres.

When I was transferred to transmission engineering at Illinois Bell, we
had a district level and staff for radio systems.  The group had a
1 ton Ford van with every kind of radio telephone the company had in
service.  What a monster.  The roof looked like a porcupine with so many
antennas.  If it was black instead of white people would have thought it
was a Secret Service van.  When I had to make field trips I would borrow
the van instead of driving one of the tiny coupes they wanted us to get
from the motor pool.  Trying to maneuver that big van up a circular
drive from a basement garage was quite a trick.  You had to keep blowing
the horn so that no one would try to drive down at the same time you
were driving up.

  We had our problems with AMPS (Advanced Mobile Phone Service) in
Chicago.  An easy place to trial cellular since MOTO is headquartered in
the suburbs.  Early sets were still quite large and had separate control
heads like IMTS, and two antennas on the trunk lid.  In the beginning
there were not enough cell sites and the switching was not always
reliable.  The company's executive limos (navy blue Lincoln Town Cars)
were all equipped with this early cellular equipment.  In those days the
equipment was very expensive.  As more sites were installed the service
became quite reliable until the phones started to become miniaturized.

The first couple of designs of miniature and sub-miniature cellular
phones were provided to the same limos and the earlier larger sets were
removed.  A big mistake.  The small sets would frequently drop calls.
The chauffeurs were responsible for the security of the phones.

One day the first Chairman of Ameritech was talking on one of the new
small phones on Lake Shore Drive.  He lost a call he thought was
important.  He had the chauffeur pull over and he through the phone into
Lake Michigan.  This worried the chauffeur.  He reported the incident to
his foreman as soon as he returned to the company garage.

The foreman told him "If the CEO wants to go for a drive every day along
the lakefront and toss a phone in the lake, don't worry about it.  Just
let me know how many phones I need to order every friday afternoon."

The chairman was, and I suppose, still is one of those egomaniacs that
are "legends in their own minds!  He felt he was so important he
developed a staff larger than AT&T had and had two 727s and four pilots
in a hangar at Midway Airport.  In 1984 because of the funding of
Ameritech, Illinois Bell fell from No. 1 earner in the Bell System to
No. 19. Right down there near Southwestern Bell, system earner number
22.

There are other stories but no one would believe them.  Like picking up
components at Newark on Chicago's west side.  11 foot cyclone fencing
with razor wire and electrically operated "air locks" for secure entry
and exit.  Then there was East St. Louis,  Illinois, the only place in
the Bell System where a cable splicer was shot for his wallet.  The
central office had two armed guards at each entrance 24/7.  If you were
in the building after 4 p.m. you were required to stay overnight in a
bunk room.  No one will admit to it but 90 percent of the employees were
armed.  No one went on a job alone.

Perhaps someone would like to write about the trials of teletypewriters
in police cars.  It would be a little more on subject than mobile
phones...


Don
Ye Olde Telephone Man



On 23 Mar 2008, at 3:55 PM, Peter Gottlieb wrote:

I do remember a bunch about the IMTS system.  I was sent to a course on
setting up one of the latter Motorola IMTS base stations then supervised
and signed off on one such install.  I also had a UHF units in my car,
it was the really big and heavy one which used a varactor tripler to get
into the 450 MHz area.  The PAs were somewhat unreliable.  The
supervisory board was a mass of discrete components and always fun to
work on.  These units used channel elements (crystals mounted in their
own cans with oscillators).  Later on Motorola came out with the
synthesized Pulsar mobiles which were much better.

There were two sets of channels for each city in both VHF and UHF.
One set was for the monopoly carrier (eg, Bell System) and the other set
for the new independent carrier.  There were very few channels as you
note and there was a significant waiting list to get a phone.  If I
remember correctly, it was 6 years in the NYC area.  The IMTS was a
dialtone system; when you went off-hook your phone had an interaction
with the base system where your phone number was sent in and then you
got a dialtone.  Dialing was rotary and tone encoded with parity tones.
When that CO in NYC burned down the Bell System "commandeered"
the IMTS systems and used them for emergency communications with cars
driving around making important calls for people until basic phone
service was restored.

The phones had only 7 digits of phone number setting.  In the Bell
system, the phone number (which was set with jumpers in the phone) was
3 digits for the area code then the last four digits of your mobile
number.  Independents did whatever they wanted, some followed this,
others didn't.

I had a big fat HT-220 which had a bunch of the IMTS channels crystalled
and I could talk to the operator and get her to connect me if I said
some magic words.  This had been loaned to me from one of my clients and
they refused to take it back later.  I think I gave it away when the
battery would no longer hold a charge.

When I bought my first cellular phone Motorola had a deal where you
would get a $500 credit if you turned in your old phone and believe it
or not they took my ancient IMTS unit and I did get that check from
them.  I still see the mobile units and control heads at hamfests.

Word from an insider at Motorola was that the first cellular trial in
NYC was faked.  There was a tech pulling the levers behind the curtain,
the automatic part was not yet ready.  Nevertheless, the technology
behind the idea was sound and developed into the revolution that cell
phones became.

Peter




Duncan M. Brown wrote:
> Anyone with early mobile telephone equipment that you don't know what
> to do with, the Antique Wireless Assoc. Museum would appreciate having

> it.  I have put together a small display of IMTS & early cellular
> equipment for the Museum, but we do not have anything prior to IMTS.
>
>
> A little more history:
>
> The first Bell System Mobile Telephone service began in St. Louis 17
> June
> 1946 on on six channels (120 Kc spacing) in the 152/158 Mc band.
> These
> channels were later split into 60 Kc and then 30Kc channel spacings
> and were given two-letter desiginations starting with "J" or "Y": JL,
> YL, JP, etc. (were one of these letter groups the earlier pre-split
> channels?). There were plans to split the channels again into 15 Kc
> channels with "X"
> designators: eg XJ, XK, etc.  This was never instituted in the US as
> the Cellular channels were finally opened. (But they were in use in
> Canada in
> 1985.)
>
> The Mobile Telephone Highway service started in 1947 in the Boston to
> New York City corridor on 35/44 Mc. and used "Z" designators: ZO, ZF,
> ZH, etc.
> As of 1985, there were still two dozen cities in the US using the Z
> channels. These channels were shut down in about 1988.
>
> In 1956, 12 UHF channels with 25 Kc spacing were made available in the
> 454/459 Mc band and had channel designators starting with "Q": eg QC,
> QJ, QD, etc.
>
> In 1953, AT&T proposed to the FCC a "broadband" mobile telephone
> system operating in the 800Mc region. But it took until 1978 for the
> first cellular test system to go on the air and not until 1983 for the

> first commercial cellular system to go on the air (in Chicago).
>
> IMTS started in 1964 with field trials in Harrisburg, PA.  It was
> initally known as "Interim Mobile Telephone Service" ("interim" until
> cellular was available).  When they realized that cellular was a ways
> off, it was changed to "Improved".
>
>
> Duncan Brown, K2OEQ
>
> AWA Electronic Communication Museum
> http://www.antiquewireless.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>
>
_______________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys


From k9tty at dls.net  Mon Mar 24 17:41:03 2008
From: k9tty at dls.net (Don Robert House)
Date: Mon Mar 24 17:47:36 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: Early Mobile Telephone and associated equipment
In-Reply-To: <C640F171-558A-4E2E-B6A3-EE26BC9BDE26@dls.net>
Message-ID: <6AC7FA70-5B04-47DB-BAC2-14C23E5AABBA@dls.net>

Thanks for sharing Art.

Don


On 24 Mar 2008, at 3:16 AM, Art Comings wrote:


Don,

I remember radio phones in cars in the mid '50s.  We bought our house  
South
of Dyer, IN from the owner of the Hammond radio station (WJOB, I think).
They operated a mobile radiophone service.  His eldest daughter was my  
age
and worked at the station during the summers in High School.  I  
stopped in a
couple of times and watched her take a landline call, then call the
requested car phone, then patch in the call.  When it was over, she'd  
unhook
the connection.  You had to be important to get that phone - and the  
bills
were pretty steep.

Art

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Robert House [mailto:k9tty@dls.net]
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 6:18 PM
To: nerd@verizon.net; Duncan-Nancy Brown
Cc: Greenkeys
Subject: Early Mobile Telephone and associated equipment

Happy Easter from the area of two Valentines Day Massacres.

When I was transferred to transmission engineering at Illinois Bell,  
we had
a district level and staff for radio systems.  The group had a
1 ton Ford van with every kind of radio telephone the company had in
service.  What a monster.  The roof looked like a porcupine with so many
antennas.  If it was black instead of white people would have thought  
it was
a Secret Service van.  When I had to make field trips I would borrow  
the van
instead of driving one of the tiny coupes they wanted us to get from the
motor pool.  Trying to maneuver that big van up a circular drive from a
basement garage was quite a trick.  You had to keep blowing the horn  
so that
no one would try to drive down at the same time you were driving up.

  We had our problems with AMPS (Advanced Mobile Phone Service) in  
Chicago.
An easy place to trial cellular since MOTO is headquartered in the  
suburbs.
Early sets were still quite large and had separate control heads like  
IMTS,
and two antennas on the trunk lid.  In the beginning there were not  
enough
cell sites and the switching was not always reliable.  The company's
executive limos (navy blue Lincoln Town Cars) were all equipped with  
this
early cellular equipment.  In those days the equipment was very  
expensive.
As more sites were installed the service became quite reliable until the
phones started to become miniaturized.

The first couple of designs of miniature and sub-miniature cellular  
phones
were provided to the same limos and the earlier larger sets were  
removed.  A
big mistake.  The small sets would frequently drop calls.  The  
chauffeurs
were responsible for the security of the phones.

One day the first Chairman of Ameritech was talking on one of the new  
small
phones on Lake Shore Drive.  He lost a call he thought was important.   
He
had the chauffeur pull over and he through the phone into Lake Michigan.
This worried the chauffeur.  He reported the incident to his foreman  
as soon
as he returned to the company garage.

The foreman told him "If the CEO wants to go for a drive every day  
along the
lakefront and toss a phone in the lake, don't worry about it.  Just  
let me
know how many phones I need to order every friday afternoon."

The chairman was, and I suppose, still is one of those egomaniacs that  
are
"legends in their own minds!  He felt he was so important he developed a
staff larger than AT&T had and had two 727s and four pilots in a  
hangar at
Midway Airport.  In 1984 because of the funding of Ameritech, Illinois  
Bell
fell from No. 1 earner in the Bell System to No. 19. Right down there  
near
Southwestern Bell, system earner number 22.

There are other stories but no one would believe them.  Like picking up
components at Newark on Chicago's west side.  11 foot cyclone fencing  
with
razor wire and electrically operated "air locks" for secure entry and  
exit.
Then there was East St. Louis,  Illinois, the only place in the Bell  
System
where a cable splicer was shot for his wallet.  The central office had  
two
armed guards at each entrance 24/7.  If you were in the building after 4
p.m. you were required to stay overnight in a bunk room.  No one will  
admit
to it but 90 percent of the employees were armed.  No one went on a job
alone.

Perhaps someone would like to write about the trials of  
teletypewriters in
police cars.  It would be a little more on subject than mobile phones...


Don
Ye Olde Telephone Man



On 23 Mar 2008, at 3:55 PM, Peter Gottlieb wrote:

I do remember a bunch about the IMTS system.  I was sent to a course on
setting up one of the latter Motorola IMTS base stations then  
supervised and
signed off on one such install.  I also had a UHF units in my car, it  
was
the really big and heavy one which used a varactor tripler to get into  
the
450 MHz area.  The PAs were somewhat unreliable.  The supervisory  
board was
a mass of discrete components and always fun to work on.  These units  
used
channel elements (crystals mounted in their own cans with oscillators).
Later on Motorola came out with the synthesized Pulsar mobiles which  
were
much better.

There were two sets of channels for each city in both VHF and UHF.
One set was for the monopoly carrier (eg, Bell System) and the other  
set for
the new independent carrier.  There were very few channels as you note  
and
there was a significant waiting list to get a phone.  If I remember
correctly, it was 6 years in the NYC area.  The IMTS was a dialtone  
system;
when you went off-hook your phone had an interaction with the base  
system
where your phone number was sent in and then you got a dialtone.   
Dialing
was rotary and tone encoded with parity tones.  When that CO in NYC  
burned
down the Bell System "commandeered"
the IMTS systems and used them for emergency communications with cars
driving around making important calls for people until basic phone  
service
was restored.

The phones had only 7 digits of phone number setting.  In the Bell  
system,
the phone number (which was set with jumpers in the phone) was
3 digits for the area code then the last four digits of your mobile  
number.
Independents did whatever they wanted, some followed this, others  
didn't.

I had a big fat HT-220 which had a bunch of the IMTS channels  
crystalled and
I could talk to the operator and get her to connect me if I said some  
magic
words.  This had been loaned to me from one of my clients and they  
refused
to take it back later.  I think I gave it away when the battery would no
longer hold a charge.

When I bought my first cellular phone Motorola had a deal where you  
would
get a $500 credit if you turned in your old phone and believe it or  
not they
took my ancient IMTS unit and I did get that check from them.  I still  
see
the mobile units and control heads at hamfests.

Word from an insider at Motorola was that the first cellular trial in  
NYC
was faked.  There was a tech pulling the levers behind the curtain, the
automatic part was not yet ready.  Nevertheless, the technology behind  
the
idea was sound and developed into the revolution that cell phones  
became.

Peter




Duncan M. Brown wrote:
> Anyone with early mobile telephone equipment that you don't know what
> to do with, the Antique Wireless Assoc. Museum would appreciate having
> it.  I have put together a small display of IMTS & early cellular
> equipment for the Museum, but we do not have anything prior to IMTS.
>
>
> A little more history:
>
> The first Bell System Mobile Telephone service began in St. Louis 17
> June
> 1946 on on six channels (120 Kc spacing) in the 152/158 Mc band.
> These
> channels were later split into 60 Kc and then 30Kc channel spacings
> and were given two-letter desiginations starting with "J" or "Y": JL,
> YL, JP, etc. (were one of these letter groups the earlier pre-split
> channels?). There were plans to split the channels again into 15 Kc
> channels with "X"
> designators: eg XJ, XK, etc.  This was never instituted in the US as
> the Cellular channels were finally opened. (But they were in use in
> Canada in
> 1985.)
>
> The Mobile Telephone Highway service started in 1947 in the Boston to
> New York City corridor on 35/44 Mc. and used "Z" designators: ZO, ZF,
> ZH, etc.
> As of 1985, there were still two dozen cities in the US using the Z
> channels. These channels were shut down in about 1988.
>
> In 1956, 12 UHF channels with 25 Kc spacing were made available in the
> 454/459 Mc band and had channel designators starting with "Q": eg QC,
> QJ, QD, etc.
>
> In 1953, AT&T proposed to the FCC a "broadband" mobile telephone
> system operating in the 800Mc region. But it took until 1978 for the
> first cellular test system to go on the air and not until 1983 for the
> first commercial cellular system to go on the air (in Chicago).
>
> IMTS started in 1964 with field trials in Harrisburg, PA.  It was
> initally known as "Interim Mobile Telephone Service" ("interim" until
> cellular was available).  When they realized that cellular was a ways
> off, it was changed to "Improved".
>
>
> Duncan Brown, K2OEQ
>
> AWA Electronic Communication Museum
> http://www.antiquewireless.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>
>
_______________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys


From k9tty at dls.net  Mon Mar 24 18:32:32 2008
From: k9tty at dls.net (Don Robert House)
Date: Mon Mar 24 18:39:13 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: Early Mobile Telephone and associated equipment
In-Reply-To: <030c01c88dcc$ebec8410$2000a8c0@ljt>
References: <88366.62663.qm@web81505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<030c01c88dcc$ebec8410$2000a8c0@ljt>
Message-ID: <3FF1D417-164D-4CEF-BF28-F084A234BEA4@dls.net>

Of course then there was MUNTZ TV using stray wire capacitance as part  
of the design.

Yucch.

Don


On 24 Mar 2008, at 11:34 AM, Larry Tighe wrote:

I would bet that was the Mallory "Inductuner" found in the DuMont TV's  
also. FM was between the Hi and Low VHF tv channels.  Yes???

Lar
K2JIA
www.antiquetelephone.com

>
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 11:36 PM
Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: Early Mobile Telephone and associated equipment


> When I was 13 or 14 years old (1961 or 1962) I had an Emerson  
> console TV that had continuous tuning.  The channel selector was Hi  
> band and low band.  You received channels 2 thru 6 on the Low and 7  
> thru 13 on the High.  If you tuned above 6 and below 7 you could  
> listen to Chicago Mobile Telephone calls.
>
> This has nothing to do with anything but it was an interesting TV.


From duncanancy at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 24 19:07:53 2008
From: duncanancy at earthlink.net (Duncan M. Brown)
Date: Mon Mar 24 19:14:07 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: Early Mobile Telephone and associated equipment
Message-ID: <380-2200832250753111@earthlink.net>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: EDW HICKEY 

I don't remeber any FM betwen the bands.  But at that age, who would be
looking for it? Back then it was AM (American Music) and FM (Foreign
Music).  AM was rock and roll and FM was mostly classical.


On 24 Mar 2008, at 11:34 AM, Larry Tighe wrote:

I would bet that was the Mallory "Inductuner" found in the DuMont TV's 
also. FM was between the Hi and Low VHF tv channels. Yes???

---------------------------

The FM Broadcast band is 88-108 Mhz.  Starts just above TV ch 6. (Tune your
FM BC receiver all the way to the bottom and you will pick up the audio of
any TV ch 6 in the area.)

I assume those continuous tuning TV receivers were also calibrated for the
88-108 Mhz FM broadcast band.

  --Duncan



From w3rlw at rochester.rr.com  Tue Mar 25 07:37:47 2008
From: w3rlw at rochester.rr.com (Roy Wildermuth)
Date: Tue Mar 25 07:44:22 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: Early Mobile Telephone and associated equipment
In-Reply-To: <380-2200832250753111@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <C40E6A5B.259%w3rlw@rochester.rr.com>

Actually

I always thought when I was a kid that FM stood for "Father's Music"


On 3/24/08 8:07 PM, "Duncan M. Brown" <duncanancy@earthlink.net> wrote:

> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: EDW HICKEY 
> 
> I don't remeber any FM betwen the bands.  But at that age, who would be
> looking for it? Back then it was AM (American Music) and FM (Foreign
> Music).  AM was rock and roll and FM was mostly classical.
> 
> 
> On 24 Mar 2008, at 11:34 AM, Larry Tighe wrote:
> 
> I would bet that was the Mallory "Inductuner" found in the DuMont TV's
> also. FM was between the Hi and Low VHF tv channels. Yes???
> 
> ---------------------------
> 
> The FM Broadcast band is 88-108 Mhz.  Starts just above TV ch 6. (Tune your
> FM BC receiver all the way to the bottom and you will pick up the audio of
> any TV ch 6 in the area.)
> 
> I assume those continuous tuning TV receivers were also calibrated for the
> 88-108 Mhz FM broadcast band.
> 
>   --Duncan
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys


From 65cyclone at sbcglobal.net  Mon Mar 24 18:47:11 2008
From: 65cyclone at sbcglobal.net (EDW HICKEY)
Date: Tue Mar 25 10:21:56 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: Early Mobile Telephone and associated equipment
In-Reply-To: <3FF1D417-164D-4CEF-BF28-F084A234BEA4@dls.net>
Message-ID: <556236.86733.qm@web81504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I don't remeber any FM betwen the bands.  But at that age, who would be looking for it? Back then it was AM (American Music) and FM (Foreign Music).  AM was rock and roll and FM was mostly classical.
  

Don Robert House <k9tty@dls.net> wrote:
  Of course then there was MUNTZ TV using stray wire capacitance as part 
of the design.

Yucch.

Don


On 24 Mar 2008, at 11:34 AM, Larry Tighe wrote:

I would bet that was the Mallory "Inductuner" found in the DuMont TV's 
also. FM was between the Hi and Low VHF tv channels. Yes???

Lar
K2JIA
www.antiquetelephone.com

>
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 11:36 PM
Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: Early Mobile Telephone and associated equipment


> When I was 13 or 14 years old (1961 or 1962) I had an Emerson 
> console TV that had continuous tuning. The channel selector was Hi 
> band and low band. You received channels 2 thru 6 on the Low and 7 
> thru 13 on the High. If you tuned above 6 and below 7 you could 
> listen to Chicago Mobile Telephone calls.
>
> This has nothing to do with anything but it was an interesting TV.



From Foltarz at rocketmail.com  Tue Mar 25 11:34:03 2008
From: Foltarz at rocketmail.com (Mark Foltarz)
Date: Tue Mar 25 11:40:38 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: Early Mobile Telephone and associated equipment
Message-ID: <181411.44771.qm@web52701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

There were several TVs of that vintage that had continuous coverage tuners.
I had a Dumont Chatam and a R-52 I believe, as well as a Crosley that could tune right through the tv lo & hi bands. 
Infact, the televisions mentioned above also had a switch to  select between tv & radio - effectively turning off the HV and pix sections.

de KA4JVY

Mark

 
Darn small world - even smaller when it comes to things Corvair.


----- Original Message ----
From: EDW HICKEY <65cyclone@sbcglobal.net>
To: Don Robert House <k9tty@dls.net>; Larry Tighe <larryradio@worldnet.att.net>
Cc: Greenkeys <greenkeys@mailman.qth.net>; EDW HICKEY <65cyclone@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 6:47:11 PM
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Re: Early Mobile Telephone and associated equipment

I don't remeber any FM betwen the bands.  But at that age, who would be looking for it? Back then it was AM (American Music) and FM (Foreign Music).  AM was rock and roll and FM was mostly classical.
  

Don Robert House <k9tty@dls.net> wrote:
  Of course then there was MUNTZ TV using stray wire capacitance as part 
of the design.

Yucch.

Don


On 24 Mar 2008, at 11:34 AM, Larry Tighe wrote:

I would bet that was the Mallory "Inductuner" found in the DuMont TV's 
also. FM was between the Hi and Low VHF tv channels. Yes???

Lar
K2JIA
www.antiquetelephone.com
\


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
From k9tty at dls.net  Tue Mar 25 15:43:56 2008
From: k9tty at dls.net (Don Robert House)
Date: Tue Mar 25 15:50:35 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: Early Mobile Telephone and associated equipment
In-Reply-To: <C40E6A5B.259%w3rlw@rochester.rr.com>
References: <C40E6A5B.259%w3rlw@rochester.rr.com>
Message-ID: <1AA707EF-55C0-42FE-90D8-5B967B49E9A8@dls.net>

I once had a really nice looking console radio by General Electric.   
Beautiful veneers and it dounded great too.
It was AM and FM but unfortunately the FM band was Pre-WWII so I could  
not receive anything on FM.

Don


On 25 Mar 2008, at 7:37 AM, Roy Wildermuth wrote:

Actually

I always thought when I was a kid that FM stood for "Father's Music"


On 3/24/08 8:07 PM, "Duncan M. Brown" <duncanancy@earthlink.net> wrote:

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: EDW HICKEY
>
> I don't remeber any FM betwen the bands.  But at that age, who would  
> be
> looking for it? Back then it was AM (American Music) and FM (Foreign
> Music).  AM was rock and roll and FM was mostly classical.
>
>
> On 24 Mar 2008, at 11:34 AM, Larry Tighe wrote:
>
> I would bet that was the Mallory "Inductuner" found in the DuMont TV's
> also. FM was between the Hi and Low VHF tv channels. Yes???
>
> ---------------------------
>
> The FM Broadcast band is 88-108 Mhz.  Starts just above TV ch 6.  
> (Tune your
> FM BC receiver all the way to the bottom and you will pick up the  
> audio of
> any TV ch 6 in the area.)
>
> I assume those continuous tuning TV receivers were also calibrated  
> for the
> 88-108 Mhz FM broadcast band.
>
>  --Duncan
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys


_______________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys

From gfmurphy at earthlink.net  Wed Mar 26 20:40:54 2008
From: gfmurphy at earthlink.net (gfmurphy@earthlink.net)
Date: Wed Mar 26 20:47:38 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] Sprocket Feed Teletype Paper Available in the San
	Francisco Area
Message-ID: <33519830.1206582054424.JavaMail.root@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net>


I have 7 boxes of sprocket feed Teletype paper available free to anyone who wants
to pick it up in San Francisco, Calif.  The paper is white, single ply and is
8 1/2 inches wide and 5 1/2 inches long.  It comes out of the box as fan-fold
sheets that are 11 inches long.  The sprocket feed edges do not tear off.
Five of the boxes are Moore Business Forms catalog no. 8550.  Information on
the box indicates that there are 6400 sheets of 8.5" X 5.5" paper in each box.
Two of the boxes are from Standard Register and the catalog no. is 0805. 
Information on the box indicates that there are 7400 sheets of 8.5" X 5.5"
paper in each box.  The distance between sprocket feed holes is 8 1/16" center
to center (as near as I can tell).  Contact me off list if you are interested.
Jerry Murphy   gfmurphy@earthlink.net


From gfmurphy at earthlink.net  Thu Mar 27 13:12:54 2008
From: gfmurphy at earthlink.net (gfmurphy@earthlink.net)
Date: Thu Mar 27 13:19:42 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] (Correction) Sprocket Feed Teletype Paper Available in
 the San Francisco Area
Message-ID: <12095725.1206641574732.JavaMail.root@elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

I re-measured the distance between the sprocket feed holes and the correct 
number is 8 1/32" center to center.  In my original post, I listed the
distance as 8 1/16" center to center.  The following description of the paper
has been corrected.  (One box has been spoken for)



>
>I have 6 boxes of sprocket feed Teletype paper available free to anyone who wants
>to pick it up in San Francisco, Calif.  The paper is white, single ply and is
>8 1/2 inches wide and 5 1/2 inches long.  It comes out of the box as fan-fold
>sheets that are 11 inches long.  The sprocket feed edges do not tear off.
>Four of the boxes are Moore Business Forms catalog no. 8550.  Information on
>the box indicates that there are 6400 sheets of 8.5" X 5.5" paper in each box.
>Two of the boxes are from Standard Register and the catalog no. is 0805. 
>Information on the box indicates that there are 7400 sheets of 8.5" X 5.5"
>paper in each box.  The distance between sprocket feed holes is 8 1/32" center
>to center (as near as I can tell).  Contact me off list if you are interested.
>Jerry Murphy   gfmurphy@earthlink.net
>




From gil at baudot.net  Sat Mar 29 16:33:52 2008
From: gil at baudot.net (gil smith)
Date: Sat Mar 29 16:40:53 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] M28 in Connecticut ?
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20080329142935.02876070@mail.vauxelectronics.com>

Hi folks:

We have a new member, Don Otrin, who is having posting problems, so I am 
sending this on his behalf

- gil


Does anybody had a Teletype Model 28 KSR floor model for sale in the 
Connecticut area?





Vaux Electronics, Inc.
480-354-5556
(fax: 480-354-5558)
www.vauxelectronics.com


From k9tty at dls.net  Sat Mar 29 17:20:56 2008
From: k9tty at dls.net (Don Robert House)
Date: Sat Mar 29 17:27:58 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] M28 in Connecticut ?
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20080329142935.02876070@mail.vauxelectronics.com>
References: <6.1.2.0.2.20080329142935.02876070@mail.vauxelectronics.com>
Message-ID: <CA2806BC-0333-46D9-8C49-69D7B2DB8186@dls.net>

New York state has several people with Teletype machines.  If I  
remember my geography New York is not too far from Connecticut.

- Don  K9TTY


On 29 Mar 2008, at 4:33 PM, gil smith wrote:

Hi folks:

We have a new member, Don Otrin, who is having posting problems, so I  
am sending this on his behalf

- gil


Does anybody had a Teletype Model 28 KSR floor model for sale in the  
Connecticut area?





Vaux Electronics, Inc.
480-354-5556
(fax: 480-354-5558)
www.vauxelectronics.com


_______________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys

From gil at baudot.net  Sun Mar 30 14:14:25 2008
From: gil at baudot.net (gil@baudot.net)
Date: Sun Mar 30 14:21:33 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] testing...
Message-ID: <20080330121425.617ae442d0f8f631a9b3312d6b10cde7.31227ab438.wbe@email.secureserver.net>


   Hi folks:
   Please disregard any test messages that come through next -- trying to
   figure  out why greenkeys spam filters are rejecting a simple message.
   I'll try to avoid any naughty rants this time.
   gil
From gil at baudot.net  Sun Mar 30 14:23:16 2008
From: gil at baudot.net (gil@baudot.net)
Date: Sun Mar 30 14:30:40 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] (no subject)
Message-ID: <20080330122316.617ae442d0f8f631a9b3312d6b10cde7.c7e5f2d999.wbe@email.secureserver.net>

Hi Everybody,

I am new here on Greenkeys and want to post a wanted Item. I am looking
for a Teletype Model 28 KSR floor model. Is there anybody in the
Connecticut area that may have one for sale.
I was in Teletype back in the late 70's, but want to get back into it
again. I love the mechanical machines. The Model 28 was always my
favorite.

Thanks you everyone for helping me out.

Regards
Don Otrin
djo1@juno.com



From gil at baudot.net  Sun Mar 30 14:30:36 2008
From: gil at baudot.net (gil@baudot.net)
Date: Sun Mar 30 14:37:43 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] greenkeys spam filtering
Message-ID: <20080330123036.617ae442d0f8f631a9b3312d6b10cde7.fc4de5cb37.wbe@email.secureserver.net>


Hi Don:

After a few tests of your original message, I found the problem.

First I thought it was a blank subject line, but that seems ok -- you
should always fill it out though.

Then I thought it was an html post, but I got the same spam reply when I
posted in it in plain text.

Then I removed the juno ads at the bottom, and it went through.

I don't know if you can turn those off or not, but if you can't, you
just won't be able to post from juno.com

Does anyone else on the list use juno and have any ideas for Don?

thanks,

gil


From s.hallas at ntlworld.com  Sun Mar 30 15:12:39 2008
From: s.hallas at ntlworld.com (Sam Hallas)
Date: Sun Mar 30 15:19:44 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] greenkeys spam filtering
In-Reply-To: <20080330123036.617ae442d0f8f631a9b3312d6b10cde7.fc4de5cb37.wbe@email.secureserver.net>
References: <20080330123036.617ae442d0f8f631a9b3312d6b10cde7.fc4de5cb37.wbe@email.secureserver.net>
Message-ID: <47EFF437.3040808@ntlworld.com>

gil@baudot.net wrote:
>  Then I removed the juno ads at the bottom, and it went through.
>
>  I don't know if you can turn those off or not, but if you can't, you
>  just won't be able to post from juno.com
>
>  Does anyone else on the list use juno and have any ideas for Don?

Not sure if this helps, Gil. I had problems with Yahoo! Groups putting 
my account on hold because they claimed my NTLWorld.com server was 
bouncing messages or taking too long to respond. So I opened a mail 
account with BlueBottle.com which is free and has worked very well. 
There are no ads attached to outgoing messages so it should work with 
the Greenkeys spam filter.

Cheers,
Sam Hallas

From jbs at kadiak.org  Sun Mar 30 19:32:59 2008
From: jbs at kadiak.org (Joe Stevens)
Date: Mon Mar 31 10:24:44 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] rust remover, was:Captain Amazing's Webpage
Message-ID: <0JYK0092OK5T0B60@msgmmp-1.gci.net>

Absolutely complete rust removal on oil-free steel is hydrochloric 
acid, sold in hardware stores as Muriatic Acid.  Normally used for 
cleaning concrete. Do not use it on aluminum castings nor whatever 
the castings in a Model 15 are.     ...j0e  WL7AML

From k9tty at dls.net  Mon Mar 31 21:30:57 2008
From: k9tty at dls.net (Don Robert House)
Date: Mon Mar 31 21:38:14 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] greenkeys spam filtering
In-Reply-To: <20080330123036.617ae442d0f8f631a9b3312d6b10cde7.fc4de5cb37.wbe@email.secureserver.net>
References: <20080330123036.617ae442d0f8f631a9b3312d6b10cde7.fc4de5cb37.wbe@email.secureserver.net>
Message-ID: <EE950E0D-0407-4636-8EEA-80BD8E29A241@dls.net>

Get a real ISP.  Or for nothing sign up for G MAIL at http://www.google.com/gmail

It is free and allows much more room for messages than JUNO.

Don House
K9TTY



On 30 Mar 2008, at 2:30 PM, gil@baudot.net wrote:


Hi Don:

After a few tests of your original message, I found the problem.

First I thought it was a blank subject line, but that seems ok -- you
should always fill it out though.

Then I thought it was an html post, but I got the same spam reply when I
posted in it in plain text.

Then I removed the juno ads at the bottom, and it went through.

I don't know if you can turn those off or not, but if you can't, you
just won't be able to post from juno.com

Does anyone else on the list use juno and have any ideas for Don?

thanks,

gil


_______________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys

From hunybuny at eskimo.com  Mon Mar 31 22:52:12 2008
From: hunybuny at eskimo.com (hunybuny@eskimo.com)
Date: Mon Mar 31 21:59:49 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] greenkeys spam filtering
In-Reply-To: <EE950E0D-0407-4636-8EEA-80BD8E29A241@dls.net>
References: <20080330123036.617ae442d0f8f631a9b3312d6b10cde7.fc4de5cb37.wbe@email.secureserver.net>
	<EE950E0D-0407-4636-8EEA-80BD8E29A241@dls.net>
Message-ID: <47F1B16C.6040702@eskimo.com>

If you're a LINUX-bigot like me, you might want to try my ISP.

eskimo.com

They rock!

Imagine calling your ISP anytime of day or night, getting someone
within a few rings, and that person knows what he is doing! He's
not some front-line call screener who asks you a series of questions
and runs you down a flow chart.

OTOH, if you want to receive some bizarre answers to technical
questions, try NETZERO.com.

UE,
W6ESE - tony
NNNNZCZC


Don Robert House wrote:
> Get a real ISP.  Or for nothing sign up for G MAIL at 
> http://www.google.com/gmail
> 
> It is free and allows much more room for messages than JUNO.
> 
> Don House
> K9TTY

-- 
Tony J. Podrasky | In the beginning the Universe was created.
                  | This has made A LOT of people very angry
                  | and has been widely regarded as a bad move.
                  |                              [from: HHGTTG]
                  |                              -Douglas Adams
From uncle_fred1 at juno.com  Mon Mar 31 22:43:50 2008
From: uncle_fred1 at juno.com (uncle_fred1@juno.com)
Date: Mon Mar 31 22:52:19 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] greenkeys spam filtering
Message-ID: <20080331.204350.8314.0@webmail04.dca.untd.com>

Interesting comment(s) on Juno.  I have used its free e-mail for years with none of the problems a lot of others seem to have.  And with 1 gig of space, I do not see a reason to change.  I do not use some of the "advanced" features others seem to demand so it works for me.  If I want to get hung up on "features" I can go with my Groupwise account at work (which I administrate to some degree).  I do not use Juno as an ISP, I tried the free service once and that WILL sour you! 

Thought if I was going to give Don/Gil a test message I would ramble a bit.

Requisite RATT content:

Main setup is M28 with Home built ST-6
Have Big Bird Dovetron, Factory ST-6 and ST-6000(low-tones), TTL/2, M15RO, "W.U. "Mail-Box" 15 yet to be on-line.
Also a TGC-14A "tactical" Mite for use with PRC-47 and CV2455

"Charter Member" of Clatternet but in-active after job change and move.

Back to net,

Fred Sell
WA7OBB
Riverton, Oregon



-- Don Robert House <k9tty@dls.net> wrote:
Get a real ISP.  Or for nothing sign up for G MAIL at http://www.google.com/gmail

It is free and allows much more room for messages than JUNO.

Don House
K9TTY


_____________________________________________________________
Click for top financial advice. Reduce debt &amp; save for retirement.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/Ioyw6iifSDiTLQIHYZfaTw3y6IcogVaNrIr9p6DUuYtoOIOVeUTggp/


From k9tty at dls.net  Mon Mar 31 22:57:48 2008
From: k9tty at dls.net (Don Robert House)
Date: Mon Mar 31 23:05:20 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] greenkeys spam filtering
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20080331213540.0036e000@big-river.net>
References: <5.2.0.9.2.20080331213540.0036e000@big-river.net>
Message-ID: <D5E63B5A-8615-4491-9E15-9B3F3E745A10@dls.net>

You can sign up on the web, but use the service from your own email  
program.  The nice thing about gmail is that they use SSL security and  
have excellent spam filters.

Don


On 31 Mar 2008, at 9:36 PM, John Becker wrote:

NEVER EVER use a web based email service.



On 3/31/2008 9:30:57 PM, Don Robert House (k9tty@dls.net) wrote:
> Get a real ISP.  Or for nothing sign up for G MAIL at http://www.google 
> .
> com/gmail
>
> It is free and allows much more room for messages than JUNO.
>
> Don House
> K9TTY
>
>
>
> On 30 Mar 2008, at 2:30 PM, gil@baudot.net wrote:
>
>
> Hi Don:
>
> After a few tests of your original message, I found the problem.
>
> First I thought it was a blank subject line, but that seems ok -- you
> should always fill it out though.
>
> Then I thought it was an html post, but I got the same spam reply  
> when I
> posted in it in plain text.
>
> Then I removed the juno ads at the bottom, and it went through.
>
> I don't know if you can turn those off or not, but if you can't, you
> just won't be able to post from juno.com
>
> Does anyone else on the list use juno and have any ideas for Don


From WA5CAB at cs.com  Mon Mar 31 23:07:45 2008
From: WA5CAB at cs.com (WA5CAB@cs.com)
Date: Mon Mar 31 23:15:01 2008
Subject: [GreenKeys] greenkeys spam filtering
Message-ID: <d6a.222c8864.35230f11@cs.com>

I'll second that.  As eBay sellers, we have more trouble with people who use 
Juno than with all of the other ISP's on the planet combined.  I groan 
whenever I see one of them on our buyers list.  Juno blocks all incoming emails by 
default.  If there is ANY problem with the sale, we are never able to get any 
message through to the buyer and the sale almost invariably ends up as a UID and 
Negative Feedback.

In a message dated 3/31/2008 8:31:30 PM Central Standard Time, k9tty@dls.net 
writes: 
> Get a real ISP.  Or for nothing sign up for G MAIL at 
> http://www.google.com/gmail
> 
> It is free and allows much more room for messages than JUNO.
> 
> Don House
> K9TTY
> 
> 
> 
> On 30 Mar 2008, at 2:30 PM, gil@baudot.net wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi Don:
> 
> After a few tests of your original message, I found the problem.
> 
> First I thought it was a blank subject line, but that seems ok -- you
> should always fill it out though.
> 
> Then I thought it was an html post, but I got the same spam reply when I
> posted in it in plain text.
> 
> Then I removed the juno ads at the bottom, and it went through.
> 
> I don't know if you can turn those off or not, but if you can't, you
> just won't be able to post from juno.com
> 
> Does anyone else on the list use juno and have any ideas for Don?
> 
> thanks,
> 

Robert & Susan Downs - Houston
<http://www.wa5cab.com> (Web Store)
MVPA 9480
<wa5cab@cs.com> (Primary email)
<wa5cab@comcast.net> (Backup email)
   
