[GreenKeys] GreenKeys Digest, Vol 80, Issue 24
weather
weather at surfsouth.com
Thu Sep 30 13:03:42 EDT 2010
RE: WBR-70 etc.
Those were the days for me!
At age 13 (and a bonifide weather nut) I found through an ARRL publication the possibility of receiving weather information via teletype. That set me off... I got in touch with local hams and for a few dollars and a little time just a few months later I had my first radio, terminal unit and a model 14 tape printer. Later on came a model 12 (what a monster) and then the coveted model 15. I coppied WBR-70 out of Miami (CARMET = Carribbean Meteorological Teletype) 24/7. I was befriended by a tech at a local TV station who kept me supplied with all the white fan-fold teletype paper and ribbons I could use. (remember the real inky purple ones supplied for AP/UPI?) At one point, I had a second 15KSR and with another radio and TU I swapped back and forth between AP/UPI news. [Good grief...I really thought I was something then!] Still a year or so later after learning the difference between the sounds of RTTY and FAX on radio, I obtained several surplus 18" Alden weather fax machines when the FAA and Weather Bureau began upgrading. The local military surplus supplied all the (wet) fax paper (ALFAX PAPER) I could use. I eventually moved the fax machine off radio and onto AT&T Long Lines. For $11.44 per month I had 24/7 weather fax service. [I guess I was lucky to have so many military and commercial users already on-line (and I was close to several exisiting users) that the cost was so low. Heck that was cheaper than a tradional private telephone line! Thoses REALLY were the days for me. How I miss them. I am so glad that ITTY exists and there is a way to keep the chatter of my beloved machines still going. I understand that CHR? in Canada still broadcasts weather at 100 wpm RTTY, but I have not tried recently. I miss the large fax weather maps, they too no longer exist. In fact, Alden Electronics went out of business years ago. I sure wish I had one of those old fax machines now. There are still a limited number of weather map fax signals available via Coast Guard frequencies. Anyone have an Alden 18 recorder sitting in a closet?
-----Original Message-----
>From: greenkeys-request at mailman.qth.net
>Sent: Sep 30, 2010 12:01 PM
>To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
>Subject: GreenKeys Digest, Vol 80, Issue 24
>
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>Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: (no subject) (tony j. podrasky)
> 2. Re: (no subject) (tony j. podrasky)
> 3. Re: (no subject) (Lee Mushel)
> 4. Teletype codes (k0bx at arrl.net)
> 5. Re: Replying to David (sdaitch at kuw.ibb.gov)
> 6. Re: Replying to David (NNN7DXB at aol.com)
> 7. Re: Replying to David (sdaitch at kuw.ibb.gov)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 02:29:46 -0700
>From: "tony j. podrasky" <tony.podrasky at gmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] (no subject)
>To: NNN7DXB at aol.com
>Cc: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
>Message-ID: <4CA4588A.1050408 at gmail.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
>Hey Dave;
>
>HAH!
>
>I used to print those stations - even though not much came thru
>that was of readable interest.
>
>I lived on Long Island, New York. One day, when I was out toolin'
>around in my Kharman Ghia, the A-M radio swamped, and I could tell
>that it was a RTTY signal jamming it. I drove around and came across
>a huge "empty field". Rhombics everywhere! I found the gate, and it
>was locked. To this day I kick myself for not leaving a calling card
>on it. Probably one of the op's was a ham - if not, the engineer that
>ran the transmitters would probably be thrilled to have a young guy
>come thru who was fascinated with WSY70.
>
>Later, when I learned how to design SELCALs, I made one specially
>for those stations: It decoded 8 sequences that came before open
>format messages. Words like "Tropical", "Hurricane", "Update", "Special
>Features".
>
>I'd run home from high school and go straight to the 28-ASR to see
>what it had printed. The sigs were always 599 and the text crisp.
>
>I got a large wall map of the USA/Canada/Carribean and used to track
>the tropical depressions with pins. It was neat to watch the storms
>come and go, and to see how the pins moved around on the map.
>
>Doggone, - I wish those times had never changed! SWL'ing was so
>much fun in those days. All the RTTY and FAX stations all over the
>place.
>
>One of the guys was visiting my ham shack a few years ago, marveling
>at the gear. I said: "you know whut? - I'd trade all this JUNK in a
>SECOND - for the pair of ARC-5's on 80 meters - and the fun I had
>with them!"
>
>UE,
>W6ESE / ex-WA2EAA
>NNNNZCZC
>
>NNN7DXB at aol.com wrote:
>> Tony:
>>
>> WBR70.....Miami, FL, Weather, 1960s and 70s?
>>
>> Sister station was WSY70 ....New York.
>>
>> Both were 60 wpm RTTY
>>
>> Dave
>
>
>--
>Tony J. Podrasky | ASPIRE TO GREATNESS!
> |
> | But remember: no one ever assassinated
> | a refrigerator repairman.
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 02:36:20 -0700
>From: "tony j. podrasky" <tony.podrasky at gmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] (no subject)
>To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
>Message-ID: <4CA45A14.90601 at gmail.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
>Well, Wayne - did you get some traffic today?
>
>We got a PING out of the group on this topic!
>
>UE,
>W6ESE - tony
>NNNNZCZC
>
>>>>>Hey Wayne;
>>>>>
>>>>>I think it's just that the group has been really quiet for a
>>>>>couple of weeks now.
>>>>>
>>>>>UE,
>>>>>W6ESE - tony
>>>>>NNNNZCZC
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>wb0cte at netscape.net wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I seem to have been taken off the greenkeys email list. If so,
>>>>>
>>>>>for what reason?
>>
>
>--
>Tony J. Podrasky | What's this thing?
> | It's called a MODEM.
> | And what's this button do?
> | Whatever you do, don't touc{{{7bh6x!{@$#)$% NO CARRIER
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 07:55:19 -0600
>From: "Lee Mushel" <herbert3 at centurytel.net>
>Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] (no subject)
>To: <tony.podrasky at gmail.com>, <NNN7DXB at aol.com>
>Cc: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
>Message-ID: <34CF2FED838544599B9485D5D8BFA359 at NewComputer>
>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
>I knew that I couldn't be the only nut case! Since I have been known to do
>things that don't make sense (like build a terminal unit in a polar relay) I
>wanted an ARC-5, in good condition, to put next to my keyboard and mouse
>which effectively run my station which includes software defined radios. I
>remember when those things could be bought, some even with the tuning knob,
>for a couple of bucks. Much to my dismay, I discovered that now, when they
>appear on eBay, they can even go past $100! I finally traded a really
>splendid and rare piece for one ( no knob) and it now sits proudly next to
>the Flex5000A!
>
>Three years ago I managed to rescue a couple of free 28s from the land fill
>but now I think people are coming to their senses and want money again.
>Unfortunately, the pendulum seems to have swung too far the other way! I
>sure do wish I knew how to encourage "demand" but when I sat a young man
>down in front of the 28 KSR, explained things like line feed and carriage
>return to him he still had nothing more than an amused smile on his face.
>And he does use something he call "rittey" with his computer.
>
>I think the reflector is just fine.....
>
>73
>
>Lee K9WRU
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "tony j. podrasky" <tony.podrasky at gmail.com>
>To: <NNN7DXB at aol.com>
>Cc: <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
>Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 3:29 AM
>Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] (no subject)
>
>
> >
>> One of the guys was visiting my ham shack a few years ago, marveling
>> at the gear. I said: "you know whut? - I'd trade all this JUNK in a
>> SECOND - for the pair of ARC-5's on 80 meters - and the fun I had
>> with them!"
>>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 4
>Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 06:13:42 -0700 (PDT)
>From: "k0bx at arrl.net" <k0bx at arrl.net>
>Subject: [GreenKeys] Teletype codes
>To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
>Message-ID: <581072.94189.qm at web82808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
>After I got out of the Navy as a Radioman 2nd Class (1966-1970, I worked my way through college as a Teletypest for a Japanese Trading Company (1970-1975).? We were exporting from McDonnell Douglas F-4EJ's for the Japanese Government.? I worked from 3 PM to 7 PM, 5 days a week for 5 years cutting tape and taking care of the process.
>
>We had a TELEX model 32ASR and a Model 28ASR on a lease line from Western Union.
>
>When I cut paper tape with multiple message to go out on the TELEX machine, Western Union wanted NNNN at the end of Message and then NNNNEND at the end of the last message.
>
>BTW I was a 'Tape Ape' in torn-tape relay at NCS Iceland in 1968.
>
>Joe K0BX
>
>Stop the insanity!
>
>Please do not add me to any distribution lists (Joke, Stories or Junk) without my permission.
>
>--- On Wed, 9/29/10, NNN7DXB at aol.com <NNN7DXB at aol.com> wrote:
>
>From: NNN7DXB at aol.com <NNN7DXB at aol.com>
>Subject: [GreenKeys] Replying to David
>To: david at kirk.net, greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
>Date: Wednesday, September 29, 2010, 7:10 PM
>
>David:
>
>Quick history lesson, since you asked:
>
>RY, SG, TE, Figs-Space all caused the selector levels of teletype machines
>to move. Most common in the Army was RY, although I have seen the
>Navy use SG often. Some Army TTY maintainers used TE, Figs-Space
>and other combinations. The QBF test (Quick Brown Fox) contained all
>the letters of the alphabet, so it was a popular test sentence.
>
>The use of NNNN came about in 1942 when the first tape relay equipment
>came into use. It was developed by Western Union to tell tape apes where
>a message ended. Tape relay gear was the AN/TGC-1.
>
>The early tape relay gear was built for both the Army and the Navy during
>the? WW II years to expedite the movement of large volumes of wartime
>traffic.
>
>CW traffic often ended traffic with a single N or B.
>
>To tell where messages began, WU developed the "ZCZC" letter combo.
>It was odd enough and easily recognized and not likely to be misunderstood
>for anything OTHER than a "symbol", much like NNNN (both developed about
>the same time period).
>
>Prior to NNNN being used, BBBB was used when several messages were
>sent as a "string". The last message ended with NNNN to let the receiving
>end know that the "string" of messages had ended. BBBB was only ever
>used in point to point, switchboard-operated teletype systems, and never
>in a tape relay operation.
>
>Some would say that NNNN stood for "Nothing Follows", but there is no proof
>of that. Others suggested BBBB stood for "More to Follow", but again,
>no record of that either.
>
>Both ZCZC (later VZCZC) and NNNN stayed in military use until about 2003
>when AUTODIN finally gave way to DMS. Both VZCZC and NNNN still show
>up in some military comms, even today. DMS is more like email, and less
>like "true messaging", so none of these prosigns or symbols are used much
>anymore.
>
>Many commercial teletype operations later adopted the ZCZC and NNNN
>routines, especially NEWS stations using RTTY in Europe. NATO militaries
>also used them.
>
>A variation of the ZCZC is VV???XXX###, or VV, 3 spaces, followed by the
>Channel ID and Channel Number (VV???HNA001).
>
>VV???XXX### was often used by US, UK and CAN military tactical CommCenters
>over field circuits. The UK and CAN preceded these with UU or HH. UU =
>denoted an Unclas message followed; HH was to let you know a classified
>message was coming.
>
>Dave
>______________________________________________________________
>GreenKeys mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 5
>Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 17:17:18 +0300
>From: sdaitch at kuw.ibb.gov
>Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Replying to David
>To: NNN7DXB at aol.com
>Cc: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
>Message-ID: <19c28199eb.199eb19c28 at KUW.IBB.GOV>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>Far too many years ago, when VOA ran the RTTY schedules between Greenville
>and Washington and Greenville with the overseas relay stations, we used a slightly
>different convention.
>
>Because we called our message traffic our FAXFAX system, that was the header.
>
>The stunt boxes in the M-28 systems were programmed to start punching tape on the
>receive machines and the NNNN was used to stop the tape puncher.
>
>I think the actual coding for the stop NNNN was really NNN, in the event we
>took a character hit.
>
>One minor problem with using FAXFAX for the punch start sequence was that if we
>were chatting with the distant end and we inadvertantly used the phrase, the tape
>punch would start. ZCZC might have been more reliable, in the sense it usually
>isn't part of message traffic, but if this discussion was on the traffic circuit, the
>tape punch would have started!
>
>73
>SHeldon
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: NNN7DXB at aol.com
>Date: Thursday, September 30, 2010 5:10 am
>Subject: [GreenKeys] Replying to David
>
>>
>> To tell where messages began, WU developed the "ZCZC" letter combo.
>> It was odd enough and easily recognized and not likely to be
>> misunderstoodfor anything OTHER than a "symbol", much like NNNN
>> (both developed about
>> the same time period).
>> Some would say that NNNN stood for "Nothing Follows", but there is
>> no proof
>> of that. > anymore.
>>
>> Many commercial teletype operations later adopted the ZCZC and NNNN
>> routines, especially NEWS stations using RTTY in Europe. NATO
>> militariesalso used them.
>>
>> A variation of the ZCZC is VV XXX###, or VV, 3 spaces, followed
>> by the
>> Channel ID and Channel Number (VV HNA001).
>>
>> VV XXX### was often used by US, UK and CAN military tactical
>> CommCentersover field circuits. The UK and CAN preceded these with
>> UU or HH. UU =
>> denoted an Unclas message followed; HH was to let you know a
>> classifiedmessage was coming.
>>
>> Dave
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 6
>Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 10:38:21 EDT
>From: NNN7DXB at aol.com
>Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Replying to David
>To: greenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>Message-ID: <2b8ff.3071843e.39d5fadd at aol.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
>Hi Sheldon:
>
>The ZCZC and NNNN discussion of which I spoke earlier was in fact
>quite different from your take.
>
>Mine was for a (strictly) tape relay operation - no typing online and NO
>keyboards on tape relay equipment. In a tape relay, all you had were
>rows and rows of tape machines spitting and sending tape (no page copies).
>(As we used to say in the military tape relays: you "pulled" and "pushed"
>tape (pulled = received; pushed = sent). Often you were waist deep in the
>stuff. The noise and the heat from the machines was overwhelming at
>times, and the smell of hot oil was everywhere.
>
>The initial idea probably had to do with the fact that the AN/TGC-1s
>used chadless tape in the early 1940s. The concept of "tape relay" was
>brand new, and tape apes were, for the most part, inexperienced. The
>concept of mass volume teletype traffic in tape form was new and it
>was evolving.
>
>The ZCZC and NNNN were simply visual flags to let tape handlers (tape apes)
>know where one message ended and another (a new one) began in
>the tape stream, since all tapes would otherwise come in one after another,
>usually without a pause, "stop", QSL or other manual intervention between
>messages. There was no automation in those days, and few, if any,
>automatic machine functions.
>
>Western Union had the contracts for the Army and Navy in those years
>and that is the system they came up with.
>
>The WU/military system proved highly reliable and was carried forward
>into the AUTODIN years where computer equipment at AUTODIN Switching
>Centers was programmed to (also) look for the ZCZC (VZCZC) and NNNN
>functions. These later became known as Start of Message (SOM) indicators
>and End of Message (EOM) indicators. (WU also had the AUTODIN contracts
>and was the principle contractor in most WW II and later fixed-station
>communications installations).
>
>Cheers,
>
>Dave
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 7
>Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 18:21:05 +0300
>From: sdaitch at kuw.ibb.gov
>Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Replying to David
>To: NNN7DXB at aol.com
>Cc: greenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>Message-ID: <c854a4.54a4c8 at KUW.IBB.GOV>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>We could have used ZCZC as well, or for that matter any character sequence
>which did not usually occur in message traffic. Our net was a three hour
>per day schedule with 6 stations, and totally manual, other than the
>tape punches using the SOM and EOM sequences.
>
>Our RTTY traffic was administrative in nature, and in order to facilitate the
>traffic schedule, the sending stations would make up a master tape for the
>days traffic, using the SOM and EOM cues, but between messages, about ten LFs
>to divide up the page copy and that would also allow the receive operation
>a moment to pull the tape through the puncher, so we had a foot or so of clean
>tape with only the sprocket feed on the chadless punchers.
>
>
>We were a small budget operation....in fact, still are!
>
>73
>Sheldon
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: NNN7DXB at aol.com
>Date: Thursday, September 30, 2010 5:38 pm
>Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Replying to David
>
>> Hi Sheldon:
>>
>> The ZCZC and NNNN discussion of which I spoke earlier was in fact
>> quite different from your take.
>>
>> Mine was for a (strictly) tape relay operation - no typing online
>> and NO
>> keyboards on tape relay equipment. In a tape relay, all you had were
>> rows and rows of tape machines spitting and sending tape (no page
>> copies).(As we used to say in the military tape relays: you
>> "pulled" and "pushed"
>> tape (pulled = received; pushed = sent). Often you were waist deep
>> in the
>> stuff. The noise and the heat from the machines was overwhelming at
>> times, and the smell of hot oil was everywhere.
>>
>> The initial idea probably had to do with the fact that the AN/TGC-1s
>> used chadless tape in the early 1940s. The concept of "tape relay" was
>> brand new, and tape apes were, for the most part, inexperienced. The
>> concept of mass volume teletype traffic in tape form was new and it
>> was evolving.
>>
>> The ZCZC and NNNN were simply visual flags to let tape handlers
>> (tape apes)
>> know where one message ended and another (a new one) began in
>> the tape stream, since all tapes would otherwise come in one after
>> another,usually without a pause, "stop", QSL or other manual
>> intervention between
>> messages. There was no automation in those days, and few, if any,
>> automatic machine functions.
>>
>> Western Union had the contracts for the Army and Navy in those years
>> and that is the system they came up with.
>>
>> The WU/military system proved highly reliable and was carried forward
>> into the AUTODIN years where computer equipment at AUTODIN Switching
>> Centers was programmed to (also) look for the ZCZC (VZCZC) and NNNN
>> functions. These later became known as Start of Message (SOM)
>> indicatorsand End of Message (EOM) indicators. (WU also had the
>> AUTODIN contracts
>> and was the principle contractor in most WW II and later fixed-station
>> communications installations).
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Dave
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> GreenKeys mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
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>http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
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>
>End of GreenKeys Digest, Vol 80, Issue 24
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