[GreenKeys] QSO's with glass tubes

Mon Feb 3 19:39:39 EST 2014

It has been many years since I’ve had my machines on RTTY.  I gave up when trying to work the glass tube operators.  They don’t understand the concept of CR, LF & LTRS at the end of each line and some of the software doesn’t even offer you CR and LF options, just word wrap.  I had a software developer tell me I had to “get with the times” because his software did not have CR and LF.  Need to be able to speak to the lowest common denominator…which is why we sometimes have to slow our Morse code down to 5 wpm.  Painful, yes, but worth the investment!  

Gary WA0NDN

NNNN

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: RTTY contact - at last ! (Teletypeparts)
   2. Re: RTTY contact - at last ! (epvgk at limpoc.com)
   3. Re: ebay "Teletype Message Numbering Module" (Nick England)
   4. USN shipboard TTY switch - red and green (Nick England)
   5. Re: RTTY contact - at last ! (Ken Schwieker)
   6. Re: RTTY contact - at last ! (Jeffrey D Angus)
   7. Re: RTTY contact - at last ! (W2HX)
   8. Spring Cleaning - WU Polar Relays (Gerry Block)
   9. M28 Torn Tape Relay Equipment Technical Manual (Nick England)
  10. Stunt box and SelCal documents (David Christ)
  11.  RTTY contact - at last ! (David Burns)
  12. Re: RTTY contact - at last ! (Jeffrey D Angus)
  13. Update - M28 tape printer for 3/8" tape (Nick England)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2014 14:37:23 -0500 (EST)
From: Teletypeparts <teletypeparts at aol.com>
To: w2hx at w2hx.com, kiddi181uk at yahoo.co.uk, greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] RTTY contact - at last !
Message-ID: <8D0EE655442E53D-1DC8-1503B at webmail-d160.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Steve,

Some "glass" RTTY folks dont have the patience for us with a real TTY, but most who are running computer programs seem pleased to QSO with a real Teletype machine.  A novelty for them.  Just not in a contest.  

Wayne
KB1FDW

-----Original Message-----
From: W2HX <w2hx at w2hx.com>
To: S. Williams <kiddi181uk at yahoo.co.uk>; greenkeys <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Sun, Feb 2, 2014 11:41 am
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] RTTY contact - at last !

Steve, where can we see pictures of your set up in your unimog? That sounds like 
 ton of fun
-----Original Message-----
rom: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net] 
n Behalf Of S. Williams
ent: Saturday, February 01, 2014 6:14 PM
o: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
ubject: [GreenKeys] RTTY contact - at last !
Greetings,
Well, I finally managed to make a confirmed RTTY exchange with the 1950`s 
iemens  Rohde and Schwarz system in my ex-NATO Unimog-based HF-Teleprinter 
ruck. Transmitting on 80m with a shift  of 850Hz, our copy - both ways, was 
xcellent once we tuned in. Despite a few issues, I was really pleased with the 
utcome - given it being `first contact` (although trying to keep up with 
omeone using a computer-based system proved challenging...).
Looking forward to proving the systems reliability and trying different bands,
Cheers,
Steve  M0MOG
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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2014 11:40:54 -0800
From: epvgk at limpoc.com
To: Teletypeparts <teletypeparts at aol.com>
Cc: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net, kiddi181uk at yahoo.co.uk
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] RTTY contact - at last !
Message-ID: <20140202194054.GA11532 at limpoc.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Sun, Feb 02, 2014 at 02:37:23PM -0500, Teletypeparts wrote:
> 
> Steve,
> 
> Some "glass" RTTY folks dont have the patience for us with a real TTY, but most who are running computer programs seem pleased to QSO with a real Teletype machine.  A novelty for them.  Just not in a contest.  
> 
> Wayne
> KB1FDW

Except you always have to ask them to send CR/NL at the end of lines :) 

> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: W2HX <w2hx at w2hx.com>
> To: S. Williams <kiddi181uk at yahoo.co.uk>; greenkeys <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Sun, Feb 2, 2014 11:41 am
> Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] RTTY contact - at last !
> 
> 
> Steve, where can we see pictures of your set up in your unimog? That sounds like 
>  ton of fun
> -----Original Message-----
> rom: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net] 
> n Behalf Of S. Williams
> ent: Saturday, February 01, 2014 6:14 PM
> o: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
> ubject: [GreenKeys] RTTY contact - at last !
> Greetings,
> Well, I finally managed to make a confirmed RTTY exchange with the 1950`s 
> iemens  Rohde and Schwarz system in my ex-NATO Unimog-based HF-Teleprinter 
> ruck. Transmitting on 80m with a shift  of 850Hz, our copy - both ways, was 
> xcellent once we tuned in. Despite a few issues, I was really pleased with the 
> utcome - given it being `first contact` (although trying to keep up with 
> omeone using a computer-based system proved challenging...).
> Looking forward to proving the systems reliability and trying different bands,
> Cheers,
> Steve  M0MOG
> _____________________________________________________________
> reenKeys mailing list
> ome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> elp: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> ost: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> 998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> andy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> lease help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> ______________________________________________________________
> reenKeys mailing list
> ome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> elp: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> ost: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> 998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> andy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> lease help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> 

> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> 
> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2014 16:29:47 -0500
From: Nick England <navy.radio at gmail.com>
To: Greenkeys <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] ebay "Teletype Message Numbering Module"
Message-ID:
 <CAB55hNfsRoLGhSL4syyX_RYiDmCEvd-GEH2q1n0XkHx9wzCFgQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

ZCZCNYW002

I have added "Principles of Operation" for this module
http://www.navy-radio.com/tty-relay-equip.htm#number
I see the seller has listed another - I think she has a batch so maybe the
price will come down if no one is hot to trot for one...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221364685110

Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com

On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 3:23 PM, Nick England <navy.radio at gmail.com> wrote:

> ZCZCNYW001
>
> Teletype 173520 Message Identification And Numbering Module Assembly
>
> Howdy gang - I identified this eBay item as the message numbering unit
> used in 28 Torn Tape Relay equipment, in particular the Transmitter Group
> which has two triple-TD trays and 6 of these numbering units. The military
> version is TT-333A/UG and you can see photos at
> http://www.navy-radio.com/tty-relay-equip.htm
> I also got front/rear views from the eBay seller and added them a little
> further down the page.
>
> I have one triple-TD tray and got 3 of these numbering units from the eBay
> seller with the intent of creating a "half-size" TT-333A/UG.
>
> As Jim Haynes said, these units generate the header for a tape that you
> are going to transmit. The stepper relay connects 15 sequential characters
> in 5-wire parallel to the distributor on the corresponding TD in the
> equipment cabinet. There is also a tandem mode where one numbering unit
> controls two TDs in alternating sequence so that you can load one message
> tape while the other is being transmitted. Clever lads, those Teletype
> chaps....
>
> When you load a tape and switch to RUN on a TD, the numbering unit first
> generates the following sequence:
> (LTR)ZCZCABCDE(FIG)123(LTR)(start_message_tape)
> where 123 is from the sequential message number counter,  ABC are
> customer-wired characters, and DE are customer-defined characters by two
> plug-in code cards (visible in the front photo).
>
> The eBay seller has some more and will post them for sale I presume - I
> got 3 of them for $60 ea. (yeah, too much but better than the original $950
> ea. listing...)
>
> If you are interested in these things, I will be scanning and posting
> description, parts, and wiring diagrams over the next couple of weeks.
>
> Cheers,
>  Nick England K4NYW
> www.navy-radio.com
>
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Message: 4
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2014 18:51:40 -0500
From: Nick England <navy.radio at gmail.com>
To: Greenkeys <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: [GreenKeys] USN shipboard TTY switch - red and green
Message-ID:
 <CAB55hNeut+EMaO2oN4uD9wuSWRoKzW0zo0VJ+9Z3DdRo50kU1g at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

For the archives and on the faint chance that I'm not the only one
interested in this subject -
http://www.navy-radio.com/rtty-patch.htm#sa734

On board USN ships there are SA-734/SG switches with keylocks, allowing you
to connect a TTY to an UNCLASSIFIED (black) or CLASSIFIED (red) TTY patch
panel. The UNCLASSIFIED black patch panel is connected to radio
transmitters and is for text that can be sent in the clear or has already
been encrypted. The CLASSIFIED red patch panel is for sensitive text that
must be encrypted before transmission.

The SA-734 switch is also connected to an ID-866/SG Indicator Lamp located
near the TTY machine that is connected to the switch. In an odd decision,
the Indicator Lamp shows RED for CAUTION-UNCLASSIFIED and GREEN (or CLEAR)
for CLASSIFED connections of the TTY. The thinking must be that the RED lap
will warn you that you are connected to an UNCLASSIFIED circuit and that
you had better not accidentally send any Top Secret info.

I had puzzled over whether this is really correct, and have seen switches
and indicators wired BOTH WAYS aboard museum ships. But I have recently
obtained both the official specification and the official manual and indeed
the RED LIGHT means you are connected to the BLACK SWITCHBOARD. Honest.
http://www.navy-radio.com/rtty-patch.htm#sa734

p.s. If anyone has a spare KW-26 or KW-37 system that I can add to my
basement TTY setup please let me know :-)

Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com
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Message: 5
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2014 18:27:22 -0600
From: Ken Schwieker <ksweek at mindspring.com>
To: GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] RTTY contact - at last !
Message-ID: <E1WA7Ws-0007Ll-L3 at elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

I am surprised there is not a designation of one or two letters that 
identifies someone running a mechanical machine to be inserted at an 
appropriate time.
Ken S

 > Steve,
 >
 > Some "glass" RTTY folks dont have the patience for us with a real 
TTY, but most who are running computer programs seem pleased to QSO 
with a real Teletype machine.  A novelty for them.  Just not in a contest.
 >
 > Wayne
 > KB1FDW

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2014 19:16:17 -0600
From: Jeffrey D Angus <jdangus at att.net>
To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] RTTY contact - at last !
Message-ID: <52EEEDE1.1060907 at att.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

On 2/2/2014 6:27 PM, Ken Schwieker wrote:
> I am surprised there is not a designation of one or two letters
> that identifies someone running a mechanical machine to be
> inserted at an appropriate time.
Are you kidding? It's hard enough to explain to them about using
170 Hz shift instead of 200 Hz.

Jeff-1.0
wa6fwi

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2014 17:16:38 -0800
From: "W2HX" <w2hx at w2hx.com>
To: "Ken Schwieker" <ksweek at mindspring.com>,
 "GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net" <GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] RTTY contact - at last !
Message-ID:
 <ACBC68AC7928FA4FB768DFB3FDD641AC12415D90AA at ex-be-032-sv1.shared.themessagecenter.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

That's quite a good idea.  I wonder if us mechanical tty'ers could sign something like  CQ CQ CQ DE W2HX/TTY  or something. Maybe if enough of us do that other folks will become accustom to the suffix and know what it means. (and avoid us even more!) 

-----Original Message-----
From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ken Schwieker
Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2014 7:27 PM
To: GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] RTTY contact - at last !

I am surprised there is not a designation of one or two letters that identifies someone running a mechanical machine to be inserted at an appropriate time.
Ken S

 > Steve,
 >
 > Some "glass" RTTY folks dont have the patience for us with a real TTY, but most who are running computer programs seem pleased to QSO with a real Teletype machine.  A novelty for them.  Just not in a contest.
 >
 > Wayne
 > KB1FDW

______________________________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net

2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2014 17:25:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Gerry Block <gblock at sbcglobal.net>
To: "greenkeys at mailman.qth.net" <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: [GreenKeys] Spring Cleaning - WU Polar Relays
Message-ID:
 <1391390725.10712.YahooMailNeo at web181106.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I have some 17-B polar relays with the impossible to find 2-A base. ?These are NIB (!) ?Before they go up on ebay anyone want one? ?No reasonable offer refused.

Gerry
AD6MC
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Message: 9
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2014 22:04:23 -0500
From: Nick England <navy.radio at gmail.com>
To: Greenkeys <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: [GreenKeys] M28 Torn Tape Relay Equipment Technical Manual
Message-ID:
 <CAB55hNfDUXnHGnCtvL6LhjGo7-zBJ74Vf2CnXxrXTiFXDF-P7Q at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

My wife bought a new scanner yesterday - yay!
I have posted Bulletin 275B vol 1 (NAVSHIPS 94158 vol 1), "M28 Torn Tape
Relay Equipment Technical Manual", at
http://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/tty/275B-94158-01.pdf

109MB of light reading...

Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com
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Message: 10
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2014 21:11:20 -0600
From: David Christ <radioham at mchsi.com>
To: GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: [GreenKeys] Stunt box and SelCal documents
Message-ID: <7CAA6981-DA76-4D8E-BC9C-0B13D0EBECA2 at mchsi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Still cleaning up.  Found and scanned some odd documents on stunt boxes and selective calling.     I will email copies to anyone who asks in the next week.  I hope someone is willing to post them in an on line archive.  The originals will be donated to a museum.

1)  General Description 28 SB Issue 1 (c) 1959 Teletype 28 Stunt Box in color 20 pages.  Description of how the stunt box works.  13.7 MB

2) 28LP Technical Data Sheet Issue 2 (c) 1959  Send-receive and Receive-only Page  Printer Sets 2 color 8 pages. Descriptions of various models and options available.  Explanation of model codes.  Comprehensive listing including pictures  of all parts available for stunt boxes.  4.8 MB

3) Selective Calling  Without Using the Zero Code Bar.  Memo dated 3-27-63  Copy of 4 page typescript.  1.8 MB

4)  Application of the Model 35 Page Printer to  Selective Calling.  Memo dated August 9, 1963.  Copy of 2 page typescript.  995 KB

5)  Handwritten note from Len Jaguilo on Teletype Corporation note paper attached to item 3.  Additional information on selective calling. Undated 152 KB

------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2014 22:51:14 -0500
From: David Burns <dvdbrns at rcn.com>
To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net, w2hx at w2hx.com
Subject: [GreenKeys]  RTTY contact - at last !
Message-ID: <52EF1232.2080801 at rcn.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

>>I am surprised there is not a designation of one or two letters that identifies someone running a mechanical machine to be inserted at an appropriate time.
>>That's quite a good idea.  I wonder if us mechanical tty'ers could sign something like  CQ CQ CQ DE W2HX/TTY  or something. Maybe if enough of us do that other folks will become accustom to the suffix and know what it means. (and avoid us even more!)

How about "CQ CQ CQ DE W2HX/POP"
POP - "Printing On Paper", in other words, "Gimme some of them Olde Tyme CR-LF Combos"!

------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2014 22:09:34 -0600
From: Jeffrey D Angus <jdangus at att.net>
To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] RTTY contact - at last !
Message-ID: <52EF167E.1070304 at att.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

On 2/2/2014 9:51 PM, David Burns wrote:
> How about "CQ CQ CQ DE W2HX/POP"
> POP - "Printing On Paper"
Or simply:
"CQ CQ CQ DE WA6FWI/MUST SEND CARRIAGE RETURNS AND LINE FEEDS"

Jeff-1.0
wa6fwi

------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2014 10:13:55 -0500
From: Nick England <navy.radio at gmail.com>
To: Greenkeys <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: [GreenKeys] Update - M28 tape printer for 3/8" tape
Message-ID:
 <CAB55hNeuGvMohuNzk89sg4fGCeQWUT2Jc2zF8Oh9oYhN81Khmg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Thanks for all the responses - this one is going to snowy Ringwood IL and
the Don House Home for Wayward Teletype Machinery. I believe he has an
11/16 tape printer that he'll then release into the wild.
Cheers,
Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com
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End of GreenKeys Digest, Vol 121, Issue 4
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