[GreenKeys] A reliable current-loop-to-RS232 converter
Bob Camp
kb8tq at n1k.org
Sat Aug 15 20:21:04 EDT 2015
Hi
The fine people “across the sea” will gladly sell you a RS232 <-> TTL converter mounted on a board with connectors.
Depending on how picky you are it may or may not cost you as much as lunch at MacDonalds (including shipping over
the ocean). If time is critical, the usual suspects here in the US will sell you a slightly fancier version (still fully assembled)
for a bit more.
Bob
> On Aug 15, 2015, at 7:02 PM, drlegendre . <drlegendre at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> To convert the TTL level RS-232 signals to a proper bi-polar signal, you only need a MAX232 chip (or clone) and 4x 1uF @ 16V capacitors. The MAX232 directly converts back and forth between 5V TTL and the more correct +/-12V signaling.
>
> Easy as pie, and the chips are like a buck or something. Let me know if you need one, I have a couple spares.
>
> On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 3:24 PM, <teletypeparts at comcast.net> wrote:
> Justin,
>
> Thanks for your input. Gabriel's 33 is configured for full duplex, 20MA, 4 wire connection. That's the way I sent it to him unless I made a mistake, but don't think so as the cable on the UCC-6 was already in place and likely was used on a computer before. I just checked the connections and labeled the line cord end. 20MA is easy to check, just look at the large green resistor in the UCC-6 and the left tap should have a wire on it. 60MA, the wire goes to the inside tap. I also tested the machine with a signal generator at 20MA, full dux.
>
> I don't want to confuse the issue if possible. The 33 should work to a RS-232 adapter. The problem is there are so darn many and they don't have a good track record. I have seen lots of 33 owners struggle with this issue. It almost always came down to the RW-232 adapter.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Wayne
>
> From: "Justin Scott" <tty at impakt.net>
> To: "Gabriel Egan" <mail at gabrielegan.com>
> Cc: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
> Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2015 3:32:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] A reliable current-loop-to-RS232 converter
>
>
> Gabriel,
>
> I think what maybe has been missed so far in this thread is that any configuration change you make to the interface must also be reflected in the
> configuration of the Teletype. On the Model 33, at the terminal strip in the back of the UCC, there's a very specific way these wires should be used.
> My Model 33 came to me configured for Half Duplex, 60mA. That had to be changed to Full Duplex, 20mA. This is all laid out in the manuals, and
> there's even some great websites out there with knowledge about how to interface teletypes to computers.
>
> The thing about using 3 wires instead of 4 wires for the actual loops sounds quite a lot like half duplex configuration to me, which you should not be
> using with your Altair.
>
> When I first got my 33 running, I needed a way to get tape data off the internet and onto tape... so I quickly whipped together this interface:
> https://www.circuitlab.com/circuit/mnartk/screenshot/1024x768/
>
> To make the 12v, I simply used a full-wave bridge rectifier built out of a handful of 1N4001's and a small electrolytic to smooth it all out.
>
> Since I didn't have any 1/4 watt resistors at around 600 ohms, I used a pair of 1/8 watt 1.2k resistors in each loop for the current limitation.
>
> I built the whole thing up on a solderless breadboard, and used it for a couple weeks until I finally broke down and bought a BlackBox CL050
> interface for about $20 on ebay, which works perfectly when configured correctly (the manual is still on their website, along with schematic).
>
> On the circuit I've outlined above - one thing to keep in mind is that on the 232 RX side, it will not drop below 0v for obvious reasons (i.e. will not
> go to -12v). Most 232 interfaces are fine with this, and this circuit does work with TTL level 232 signals.
>
> Here's a photo of that circuit on breadboard: http://i.imgur.com/DIKYPez.jpg
>
> There's a lot of ways that CL can be configured. Making sure what you have configured on the interface is mandatory to match what you have the 33
> configured for.
>
> Hope this helps! :)
>
> cheers,
> j
>
>
> Gabriel Egan(mail) wrote:
> > I'm trying and failing to get my new ASR-33
> > communicate with my Altair 8800 clone via
> > a current-loop-to-RS232 converter purchased
> > from the usually reliable UK retailer RS
> > Components.
> >
> > The converter has rather a lot options, and
> > it's able to support Active as well as Passive
> > current-loop operation. I've got it set to
> > Active and it's got 5v coming in from a USB
> > cable.
> >
> > On the Teletype end, I have four coloured wires
> > coming from the Teletype:
> >
> > TTY Send: Red (3) and Black (4) wires (not
> > otherwise differentiated)
> >
> > TTY Receive: White (7) (positive) and
> > Blue (6) (negative)
> >
> > (These assignments including the numbers 3, 4, 6, and
> > 7 come from a label on the data cable coming from the
> > Teletype).
> >
> > On the converter I have a terminal block with
> > five screws. If I select Full Duplex operation
> > and select that both Tx (Transmit) and Rx (Receive)
> > are Active then those five terminals have these
> > assignments:
> >
> > TB1: Tx I+ Out / V+
> > TB2: No Connection
> > TB3: Rx I+ Out / V+
> > TB4: No Connection
> > TB5: Tx/Rx I- In / V-
> >
> > (This is exactly how the manual describes them;
> > I assume that "I" means "current", as Andre-Marie
> > Ampere himself decreed.)
> >
> > On the principle that what the converter considers
> > to be the act of 'sending' is what the Teletype
> > considers to be the act of 'receiving' I connected
> > the White wire from the Teletype to TB1 and the Blue
> > wire from the Teletype to TB5. I set the converter
> > to DCE operation and booted the Altair: Success! The
> > MITS BASIC welcome message prints on the Teletype
> > and I'm asked to enter Memory Size, just as
> > expected.
> >
> > So, just the other two wires to connect and all
> > should be well. This is where I get stuck!
> >
> > I connected the Red wire from the Teletype to the
> > TB3 and the White wire from the Teletype to
> > TB5. No luck. I reversed them: White to TB5
> > and Red to TB3. No luck. Then I tried all
> > permutations of the remaining terminals
> > (everything except TB1 and TB5 since these
> > are clearly in use for data going the other
> > way). No luck.
> >
> > Then I did all the above again with the converter
> > set to Active on the Tx side and Passive on the
> > Rx side. (No use setting the Tx side to passive
> > as this just makes the Teletype 'run open'.)
> >
> > What else might I change on the converter? 60ma
> > instead of 20ms? No luck (Teletype just 'runs
> > open'). Half Duplex instead of Full Duplex
> > (No good: seems to be for systems sharing the
> > same pair of wires for both sending and receiving,
> > and we know we're not doing that.)
> >
> > I think I've run out of options with this particular
> > converter. Is a 5v USB supply not enough current?
> > This seems unlikely since they sell this converter
> > for current-loop applications.
> >
> > If anybody on the Greenkeys lists can see my fatal
> > error(s) in the above, I'd be grateful to know.
> >
> > Alternatively, can anybody point me towards the
> > seller of a current-loop-to-RS232 converter that
> > is known to work with Teletypes and for which
> > they can tell me exactly where my four coloured
> > wires go? If anybody is willing to make me such
> > a converter, I'd be happy to pay any reasonable
> > price.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Gabriel Egan
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