From rmowery42 at charter.net  Mon Feb  1 00:02:58 2021
From: rmowery42 at charter.net (Ralph Mowery)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 00:02:58 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Chadless tape and a M14 Transmitter-Distributor
In-Reply-To: <6017850C.7941.558B3A1@jim.w2jc.gmail.com>
References: <2e46726b4d9fc15d36f7e27a96cf3135@thetower.us>
	<6017850C.7941.558B3A1@jim.w2jc.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <004f01d6f857$823e6a20$86bb3e60$@net>

I have seen some different lids.  One had small round holes that were too
small for the chads and the other has slots where the chad can rise up.

Ralph ku4pt





-----Original Message-----
From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net
[mailto:greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Cooper
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2021 11:35 PM
To: ac8y at thetower.us; greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Chadless tape and a M14 Transmitter-Distributor

On 31 Jan 2021 at 20:46, ac8y at thetower.us wrote:

> Apparently different shims are
> required on the XD retaining lid
> plate for chadless tape. I messed
> with lots of different
> spacings--regular tape always works
> and chadless tape never works. 
> 
> Any tricks, ideas, or suggestions? 

The first step I would suggest is to turn 
off the TD motor, put the chadless tape 
in the reader head, and turn the motor 
BY HAND, slowly in the direction the motor 
normally runs ...  as the pins come up, look 
through the slots and see where the pins are 
relative to the chads.  It might be that the 
advancing pawl that steps the tape ahead 
one character might be a bit out of alignment. 

Jim  W2JC 



From dave at horsfall.org  Mon Feb  1 02:07:05 2021
From: dave at horsfall.org (Dave Horsfall)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 18:07:05 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [GreenKeys] 2m/70cm repeater net
In-Reply-To: <FAB3C394-EA11-4CEB-A385-8151257435BE@k6yic.com>
References: <FAB3C394-EA11-4CEB-A385-8151257435BE@k6yic.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2102011747530.70858@aneurin.horsfall.org>

On Sun, 31 Jan 2021, Daniel Jones wrote:

> A bunch of us down here in SoCal are experimenting with using 2m/70cm 
> repeaters to start a local RTTY net.

Dunno about USA, but here down-under you'd get strung up by the nuts if 
you tried that on a voice repeater; for starters it would likely be 
illegal.

That said, there was a mixed voice/RTTY repeater in Sydney; I have no idea 
whether it's still operating, as RTTY (on other than HF) is all but dead 
and I'm no longer in Sydney.

Quickly checks the callbook: nope, VK2RTY is gone...

(Here in Oz, repeaters are separately licenced and are administered by a 
club or other organisation; they, along with beacons, have the callsigns 
VKnRxx.)

-- Dave VK2KFU

From ka2ivy at verizon.net  Mon Feb  1 08:07:00 2021
From: ka2ivy at verizon.net (Bruce Gentry)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 08:07:00 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] 2m/70cm repeater net
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2102011747530.70858@aneurin.horsfall.org>
References: <FAB3C394-EA11-4CEB-A385-8151257435BE@k6yic.com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2102011747530.70858@aneurin.horsfall.org>
Message-ID: <6077a9cd-6c8d-5598-07d0-41d8d1469231@verizon.net>

AFSK RTTY was once very common on 2 meters.  Usually, if repeaters were 
used they were dedicated to RTTY, but there were stations that would 
have the tones at background level while talking on the repeater. 
Filters were often used on both ends to reduce interference between 
speech and data.

        Bruce Gentry, KA2IVY


On 2/1/21 2:07, Dave Horsfall wrote:
> On Sun, 31 Jan 2021, Daniel Jones wrote:
>
>> A bunch of us down here in SoCal are experimenting with using 2m/70cm 
>> repeaters to start a local RTTY net.
>
> Dunno about USA, but here down-under you'd get strung up by the nuts 
> if you tried that on a voice repeater; for starters it would likely be 
> illegal.
>
> That said, there was a mixed voice/RTTY repeater in Sydney; I have no 
> idea whether it's still operating, as RTTY (on other than HF) is all 
> but dead and I'm no longer in Sydney.
>
> Quickly checks the callbook: nope, VK2RTY is gone...
>
> (Here in Oz, repeaters are separately licenced and are administered by 
> a club or other organisation; they, along with beacons, have the 
> callsigns VKnRxx.)
>
> -- Dave VK2KFU
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: 
>>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: 
>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: 
>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: 
>>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to ka2ivy at verizon.net
>

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From rmowery42 at charter.net  Mon Feb  1 10:20:51 2021
From: rmowery42 at charter.net (Ralph Mowery)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 10:20:51 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] 2m/70cm repeater net
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2102011747530.70858@aneurin.horsfall.org>
References: <FAB3C394-EA11-4CEB-A385-8151257435BE@k6yic.com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2102011747530.70858@aneurin.horsfall.org>
Message-ID: <000601d6f8ad$d3890010$7a9b0030$@net>

It looks like you are under the rules similar to the ones in the US about 30
to 40 years ago.  For a while in the 1970's we had to license repeaters
under the call of WRnxxx.  There had to be map circles drawn and out to so
many miles the height of the antenna above average ground level calculated.
After a few years the FCC relaxed the rules and now the repeaters are not
regulated very much.  Anyone can just put up one anywhere they want and
stick their own call on it.  Not much difference in just setting up your
home station.  

When I got into RTTY there was a RTTY repeater on our 220 MHz band with
about 20 users.  After a while the users dropped out and the repeater went
off the air.  

Now in the US in many areas the 2 meter and 440 MHz bands are filled up and
there is sort of a priority of giving any pair that opens up to the digital
voice type repeaters.

Ralph ku4pt


-----Original Message-----
From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net
[mailto:greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Dave Horsfall
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2021 2:07 AM
To: Greenkeys
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] 2m/70cm repeater net

On Sun, 31 Jan 2021, Daniel Jones wrote:

> A bunch of us down here in SoCal are experimenting with using 2m/70cm 
> repeaters to start a local RTTY net.

Dunno about USA, but here down-under you'd get strung up by the nuts if 
you tried that on a voice repeater; for starters it would likely be 
illegal.

That said, there was a mixed voice/RTTY repeater in Sydney; I have no idea 
whether it's still operating, as RTTY (on other than HF) is all but dead 
and I'm no longer in Sydney.

Quickly checks the callbook: nope, VK2RTY is gone...

(Here in Oz, repeaters are separately licenced and are administered by a 
club or other organisation; they, along with beacons, have the callsigns 
VKnRxx.)

-- Dave VK2KFU


From w9ddd at tapr.org  Mon Feb  1 12:30:39 2021
From: w9ddd at tapr.org (John, W9DDD)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 11:30:39 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] Chadless tape and a M14 Transmitter-Distributor
In-Reply-To: <004f01d6f857$823e6a20$86bb3e60$@net>
References: <2e46726b4d9fc15d36f7e27a96cf3135@thetower.us>
	<6017850C.7941.558B3A1@jim.w2jc.gmail.com>
	<004f01d6f857$823e6a20$86bb3e60$@net>
Message-ID: <5078bc34-5a4e-5275-4a76-1639dcab7853@tapr.org>

Yes the round holes will be too small.  All later production TDs 
probably had the rectangular holes to work with either kind of tape.  I 
never saw a round hole version coming out of Bell System surplus in the 
sixties.

I sent Paul several lids last year, but I don't recall which style they 
were.  Probably round hole removed for a mod kit for chadless.

If he doesn't have the correct ones for chadless, perhaps drilling the 
round holes larger would work, but certainly not as well as the correct 
lid.

John, W9DDD

On 1/31/2021 11:02 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
> I have seen some different lids.  One had small round holes that were too
> small for the chads and the other has slots where the chad can rise up.
> 
> Ralph ku4pt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Cooper
> Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2021 11:35 PM
> To: ac8y at thetower.us; greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Chadless tape and a M14 Transmitter-Distributor
> 
> On 31 Jan 2021 at 20:46, ac8y at thetower.us wrote:
> 
>> Apparently different shims are
>> required on the XD retaining lid
>> plate for chadless tape. I messed
>> with lots of different
>> spacings--regular tape always works
>> and chadless tape never works.
>>
>> Any tricks, ideas, or suggestions?
> 
> The first step I would suggest is to turn
> off the TD motor, put the chadless tape
> in the reader head, and turn the motor
> BY HAND, slowly in the direction the motor
> normally runs ...  as the pins come up, look
> through the slots and see where the pins are
> relative to the chads.  It might be that the
> advancing pawl that steps the tape ahead
> one character might be a bit out of alignment.
> 
> Jim  W2JC
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> 
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to w9ddd at tapr.org
> 

From pdwills at cedarknolltelephone.com  Mon Feb  1 12:47:32 2021
From: pdwills at cedarknolltelephone.com (Paul Wills (CKT&T))
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 12:47:32 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Chadless tape and a M14 Transmitter-Distributor
In-Reply-To: <5078bc34-5a4e-5275-4a76-1639dcab7853@tapr.org>
References: <2e46726b4d9fc15d36f7e27a96cf3135@thetower.us>
	<6017850C.7941.558B3A1@jim.w2jc.gmail.com>
	<004f01d6f857$823e6a20$86bb3e60$@net>
	<5078bc34-5a4e-5275-4a76-1639dcab7853@tapr.org>
Message-ID: <92b0cffe-e0db-cab8-e566-254708c3e0c3@cedarknolltelephone.com>

Attached is a photo of a chadless lid from a 14 TD.

PDW

On 2/1/2021 12:30 PM, John, W9DDD wrote:
> Yes the round holes will be too small.? All later production TDs 
> probably had the rectangular holes to work with either kind of tape.? 
> I never saw a round hole version coming out of Bell System surplus in 
> the sixties.
>
> I sent Paul several lids last year, but I don't recall which style 
> they were.? Probably round hole removed for a mod kit for chadless.
>
> If he doesn't have the correct ones for chadless, perhaps drilling the 
> round holes larger would work, but certainly not as well as the 
> correct lid.
>
> John, W9DDD
>
> On 1/31/2021 11:02 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
>> I have seen some different lids.? One had small round holes that were 
>> too
>> small for the chads and the other has slots where the chad can rise up.
>>
>> Ralph ku4pt
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net
>> [mailto:greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Cooper
>> Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2021 11:35 PM
>> To: ac8y at thetower.us; greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
>> Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Chadless tape and a M14 Transmitter-Distributor
>>
>> On 31 Jan 2021 at 20:46, ac8y at thetower.us wrote:
>>
>>> Apparently different shims are
>>> required on the XD retaining lid
>>> plate for chadless tape. I messed
>>> with lots of different
>>> spacings--regular tape always works
>>> and chadless tape never works.
>>>
>>> Any tricks, ideas, or suggestions?
>>
>> The first step I would suggest is to turn
>> off the TD motor, put the chadless tape
>> in the reader head, and turn the motor
>> BY HAND, slowly in the direction the motor
>> normally runs ...? as the pins come up, look
>> through the slots and see where the pins are
>> relative to the chads.? It might be that the
>> advancing pawl that steps the tape ahead
>> one character might be a bit out of alignment.
>>
>> Jim? W2JC

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From wcwuttke at att.net  Mon Feb  1 19:55:44 2021
From: wcwuttke at att.net (William Wuttke)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 16:55:44 -0800
Subject: [GreenKeys] RTTY Signal Report Test
References: <91EC47D7-8ED1-4913-BC24-94EFBEBA444D.ref@att.net>
Message-ID: <91EC47D7-8ED1-4913-BC24-94EFBEBA444D@att.net>

I?ve been fiddling around with some software and have a function ready for some
real-world testing. If you get a chance, send the following (your callsign  in YOURCALL)
on 14.083875 MHz mark freq daytime until 2400Z or 7.083875 MHz after 2400Z:

?KE3BK KE3BK DE YOURCALL YOURCALL QSA??

If I decode everything properly, you will receive a signal report.

73,
Bill
KE3BK



From ac8y at thetower.us  Mon Feb  1 22:52:48 2021
From: ac8y at thetower.us (ac8y at thetower.us)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2021 22:52:48 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Chadless tape and a M14 Transmitter-Distributor
In-Reply-To: <6017850C.7941.558B3A1@jim.w2jc.gmail.com>
References: <2e46726b4d9fc15d36f7e27a96cf3135@thetower.us>
	<6017850C.7941.558B3A1@jim.w2jc.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f22690f993429c43ec5ddcacca49174e@thetower.us>

Thanks to all who sent ideas.  This XD the lid with rectangular holes as
pictured.  I have made some progress based on the greenkeys responses.  


While single stepping through each bit by manually spinning the motor it
became clear that the pins were not opening the attached chad flaps far
enough to reach the switching threshold.  After precisely adjusting the
contact spacing I was able to get near perfect copy from a chadless tape
by sliding the tape over a table edge to open the chads.  Not really a
perfect solution but progress nonetheless.  With the flaps stuck shut
the pins can't sufficiently push them open.  This Ebay tape might not be
exactly orgiginal.  Maybe some differ tape would help. 

Mike AC8Y 

On 2021-01-31 23:35, Jim Cooper wrote:

> On 31 Jan 2021 at 20:46, ac8y at thetower.us wrote:
> 
>> Apparently different shims are
>> required on the XD retaining lid
>> plate for chadless tape. I messed
>> with lots of different
>> spacings--regular tape always works
>> and chadless tape never works. 
>> 
>> Any tricks, ideas, or suggestions?
> 
> The first step I would suggest is to turn 
> off the TD motor, put the chadless tape 
> in the reader head, and turn the motor 
> BY HAND, slowly in the direction the motor 
> normally runs ...  as the pins come up, look 
> through the slots and see where the pins are 
> relative to the chads.  It might be that the 
> advancing pawl that steps the tape ahead 
> one character might be a bit out of alignment. 
> 
> Jim  W2JC
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From jim at k6ccc.org  Tue Feb  2 00:17:47 2021
From: jim at k6ccc.org (Jim Walls)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 21:17:47 -0800
Subject: [GreenKeys] OT - Prepare to get your mind blown - you think
 Teletypes are complicated?
Message-ID: <bd8139bc-b6f9-a490-3ad4-6cde42c5eee2@k6ccc.org>

The Linotype was invented in 1884, so it pre-dates Teletypes by several 
decades.? These made a Teletype look simple.? A friend sent me a link to 
this film documentary that was made in the 1950s and later converted to 
video and uploaded to YouTube.? It takes 35 minutes, and the video 
quality is not all that great, but is well worth watching.? Note the 
Teletype connection near the end...

https://youtu.be/EzilaRwoMus

Enjoy

-- 
73
-------------------------------------
Jim Walls - K6CCC
jim at k6ccc.org
Ofc:  818-548-4804
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/k6ccc/
AMSAT Member 32537 - WSWSS Member 395


From harold at w6iwi.org  Tue Feb  2 00:34:19 2021
From: harold at w6iwi.org (Harold Hallikainen)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 21:34:19 -0800
Subject: [GreenKeys] OT - Prepare to get your mind blown - you think
 Teletypes are complicated?
In-Reply-To: <bd8139bc-b6f9-a490-3ad4-6cde42c5eee2@k6ccc.org>
References: <bd8139bc-b6f9-a490-3ad4-6cde42c5eee2@k6ccc.org>
Message-ID: <4b01c67754a26289825940e0bc13867a.squirrel@mai.hallikainen.org>


> The Linotype was invented in 1884, so it pre-dates Teletypes by several
> decades.?? These made a Teletype look simple.?? A friend sent me a link to
> this film documentary that was made in the 1950s and later converted to
> video and uploaded to YouTube.?? It takes 35 minutes, and the video
> quality is not all that great, but is well worth watching.?? Note the
> Teletype connection near the end...
>
> https://youtu.be/EzilaRwoMus
>
> Enjoy
>
> --
> 73
> -------------------------------------
> Jim Walls - K6CCC
> jim at k6ccc.org
> Ofc:  818-548-4804
> http://members.dslextreme.com/users/k6ccc/
> AMSAT Member 32537 - WSWSS Member 395
>

Will definitely look at that! There is a film from last year at
https://linotypefilm.com/ that is also impressive.

My college newspaper had a Linotype. Wire service copy came in on a 6 bit
machine that looked like the model 15. They also perforated tape as the
copy came in. I always thought it was clever that the start of each story
printed overtyped garbage on the printer but showed up as a dot matrix
story number on the perforated tape. An operator could quickly scroll
through the tape looking for the desired story number, tear it off, and
take it to the Linotype.

The school newspaper did an interesting process with the Linotype. The
lead lines of type were put in a proof press and a single copy of the
column of text was pulled. This was then pasted up on the page layout. The
page layout was then photographed and an offset plate burned from that.
The newspaper was then printed offset.

The Linotype room also had a couple "modern" electronic typesetting
machines. One of these had a loop of film on a drum. It had each character
on the film. As the drum rotated, a strobe would flash when the desired
character was in position, exposing the output film with that character.
The output film would move and the next character would be flashed.

The other modern electronic typesetter used a square film matrix. A series
of mirrors, each with two positions, would flip back and forth based on
the binary code for the character. This would complete a path from the
desired character on the matrix film to the output film, and a strobe
would flash.

Amazing stuff!

Harold
https://w6iwi.org



-- 
FCC Rules Updated Daily at http://www.hallikainen.com
Not sent from an iPhone.

From macbax1 at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 00:45:54 2021
From: macbax1 at gmail.com (Joe Clanin)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 23:45:54 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] OT - Prepare to get your mind blown - you think
 Teletypes are complicated?
In-Reply-To: <4b01c67754a26289825940e0bc13867a.squirrel@mai.hallikainen.org>
References: <bd8139bc-b6f9-a490-3ad4-6cde42c5eee2@k6ccc.org>
	<4b01c67754a26289825940e0bc13867a.squirrel@mai.hallikainen.org>
Message-ID: <CAK1UwOa9CoetS3uA5PJuYJj+A_4gPkv+eidLTBrTdOvFMmoRew@mail.gmail.com>

For anyone following along on this thread, the

>6 bit machine that looked like the model 15

was probably something along the lines of the machine pictured in the
attached photo of my Model 20 RO. Check out the extra bellcrank! Bill
Buzbee's machine is also an excellent example:
http://www.baudot.net/teletype/M20.htm . Mine was an AP machine at a small
town newspaper in South Dakota.

-Joe

On Mon, Feb 1, 2021 at 11:36 PM Harold Hallikainen <harold at w6iwi.org> wrote:

>
> > The Linotype was invented in 1884, so it pre-dates Teletypes by several
> > decades.?  These made a Teletype look simple.?  A friend sent me a link
> to
> > this film documentary that was made in the 1950s and later converted to
> > video and uploaded to YouTube.?  It takes 35 minutes, and the video
> > quality is not all that great, but is well worth watching.?  Note the
> > Teletype connection near the end...
> >
> > https://youtu.be/EzilaRwoMus
> >
> > Enjoy
> >
> > --
> > 73
> > -------------------------------------
> > Jim Walls - K6CCC
> > jim at k6ccc.org
> > Ofc:  818-548-4804
> > http://members.dslextreme.com/users/k6ccc/
> > AMSAT Member 32537 - WSWSS Member 395
> >
>
> Will definitely look at that! There is a film from last year at
> https://linotypefilm.com/ that is also impressive.
>
> My college newspaper had a Linotype. Wire service copy came in on a 6 bit
> machine that looked like the model 15. They also perforated tape as the
> copy came in. I always thought it was clever that the start of each story
> printed overtyped garbage on the printer but showed up as a dot matrix
> story number on the perforated tape. An operator could quickly scroll
> through the tape looking for the desired story number, tear it off, and
> take it to the Linotype.
>
> The school newspaper did an interesting process with the Linotype. The
> lead lines of type were put in a proof press and a single copy of the
> column of text was pulled. This was then pasted up on the page layout. The
> page layout was then photographed and an offset plate burned from that.
> The newspaper was then printed offset.
>
> The Linotype room also had a couple "modern" electronic typesetting
> machines. One of these had a loop of film on a drum. It had each character
> on the film. As the drum rotated, a strobe would flash when the desired
> character was in position, exposing the output film with that character.
> The output film would move and the next character would be flashed.
>
> The other modern electronic typesetter used a square film matrix. A series
> of mirrors, each with two positions, would flip back and forth based on
> the binary code for the character. This would complete a path from the
> desired character on the matrix film to the output film, and a strobe
> would flash.
>
> Amazing stuff!
>
> Harold
> https://w6iwi.org
>
>
>
> --
> FCC Rules Updated Daily at http://www.hallikainen.com
> Not sent from an iPhone.
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to macbax1 at gmail.com
>
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From macbax1 at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 16:03:47 2021
From: macbax1 at gmail.com (Joe Clanin)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 15:03:47 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] Help identifying a gear
Message-ID: <CAK1UwObLDFswNZSaTmNkJdkBJ7dWO734K8yXcXfmfb58DQgwow@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

I'm sorting through some parts and am having trouble identifying a gear
marked "197779". I've only been able to turn up price catalog listings
containing this number on navy-radio.com, but with no information apart
from the price.

It is 3.8" in diameter, 0.25" thick, and has 120 teeth. Picture attached.
Can anyone identify it?

-Joe
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From macbax1 at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 16:41:39 2021
From: macbax1 at gmail.com (Joe Clanin)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 15:41:39 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] Help identifying a gear
In-Reply-To: <1726395372.2803.1612301634037@wamui-moana.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <1726395372.2803.1612301634037@wamui-moana.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CAK1UwObZvhUnuoYv8iTWkgRij_xevP8z+w_HQKo6-rnSrtx=Cw@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, Jerry!!

On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 3:33 PM Jerry Murphy <gfmurphy at earthlink.net> wrote:

> 100 WPM gear found on the TD base in a M35 ASR set.
>
>
> http://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/tty/jh/ttyman8/TeletypeManuals/model35/574-223-800TC-Iss3.pdf
>
> See page 6.
>
> Jerry Murphy
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Clanin
> Sent: Feb 2, 2021 1:03 PM
> To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
> Subject: [GreenKeys] Help identifying a gear
>
> Hello all,
>
> I'm sorting through some parts and am having trouble identifying a gear
> marked "197779". I've only been able to turn up price catalog listings
> containing this number on navy-radio.com, but with no information apart
> from the price.
>
> It is 3.8" in diameter, 0.25" thick, and has 120 teeth. Picture attached.
> Can anyone identify it?
>
> -Joe
>
>
>
>
>
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From paul0926 at comcast.net  Tue Feb  2 16:45:48 2021
From: paul0926 at comcast.net (Paul Heller)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 22:45:48 +0100
Subject: [GreenKeys] 35 KSR sighting
Message-ID: <EC5C1995-F884-40A3-AAB9-0668FB48C514@comcast.net>

An old Navy Univac computer that works.

Only slightly on topic because there is a 35 KSR (maybe the main console?) that we don?t get to see in operation and also a Kleinschmidt printer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_d1QbeiOu0

Paul

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From macbax1 at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 16:50:07 2021
From: macbax1 at gmail.com (Joe Clanin)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 15:50:07 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] Help identifying a gear
In-Reply-To: <CAK1UwObm9HJOoJwS-uHEaBQ0s8wbN=x=p1hntGvzs3jvbZZ=kg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAK1UwObLDFswNZSaTmNkJdkBJ7dWO734K8yXcXfmfb58DQgwow@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAB55hNcAxDtjykTL-+CwRWC2C6=mrxnLq_KTS=s-SKSCvF6dAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK1UwObm9HJOoJwS-uHEaBQ0s8wbN=x=p1hntGvzs3jvbZZ=kg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK1UwOZEyufjCk+qrSwc=jePWABWjXpM_-op-sJAXbFv4H-qLg@mail.gmail.com>

The gear has been identified as a 100wpm gear for the TD base in a 35 ASR.

Thanks to everyone for the help!

-Joe

On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 3:46 PM Joe Clanin <macbax1 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks, Nick!
>
> I wasn't able to locate that document via "197779" site:navy-radio.com.
> Is there some better way to search that I'm not aware of?
>
> Best,
>
> Joe
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 3:40 PM Nick England <navy.radio at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> M35 parts 1187B - pdf page 109
>>
>>
>> http://www.soemtron.org/downloads/teletypes/old%20files/model35asrbulletin1187bparts.pdf
>>
>>
>> Nick England K4NYW
>> www.navy-radio.com
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 4:05 PM Joe Clanin <macbax1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> I'm sorting through some parts and am having trouble identifying a gear
>>> marked "197779". I've only been able to turn up price catalog listings
>>> containing this number on navy-radio.com, but with no information apart
>>> from the price.
>>>
>>> It is 3.8" in diameter, 0.25" thick, and has 120 teeth. Picture
>>> attached. Can anyone identify it?
>>>
>>> -Joe
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> GreenKeys mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>>
>>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to navy.radio at gmail.com
>>
>>
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From w9ddd at tapr.org  Tue Feb  2 17:14:14 2021
From: w9ddd at tapr.org (John, W9DDD)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 16:14:14 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] Help identifying a gear
In-Reply-To: <CAK1UwObLDFswNZSaTmNkJdkBJ7dWO734K8yXcXfmfb58DQgwow@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAK1UwObLDFswNZSaTmNkJdkBJ7dWO734K8yXcXfmfb58DQgwow@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1d9895a1-b429-3511-24dd-c2fed20defb3@tapr.org>

Page 5.  TD base for 35ASR.

http://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/tty/jh/ttyman8/TeletypeManuals/model35/574-223-800TC-Iss3.pdf

John, W9DDD

On 2/2/2021 3:03 PM, Joe Clanin wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> I'm sorting through some parts and am having trouble identifying a gear 
> marked "197779". I've only been able to turn up price catalog listings 
> containing this number on navy-radio.com <http://navy-radio.com>, but 
> with no information apart from the price.
> 
> It is 3.8" in diameter, 0.25" thick, and has 120 teeth. Picture 
> attached. Can anyone identify it?
> 
> -Joe
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> 
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to w9ddd at tapr.org
> 

From w9ddd at tapr.org  Tue Feb  2 17:25:18 2021
From: w9ddd at tapr.org (John, W9DDD)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 16:25:18 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] Help identifying a gear
In-Reply-To: <1d9895a1-b429-3511-24dd-c2fed20defb3@tapr.org>
References: <CAK1UwObLDFswNZSaTmNkJdkBJ7dWO734K8yXcXfmfb58DQgwow@mail.gmail.com>
	<1d9895a1-b429-3511-24dd-c2fed20defb3@tapr.org>
Message-ID: <eaf8c19b-46ba-ce32-5ca5-3b9cbd5f42d6@tapr.org>

OK, so I was searching instead of checking my mail, sorry for the 
duplicate information.

John, W9DDD

On 2/2/2021 4:14 PM, John, W9DDD wrote:
> Page 5.? TD base for 35ASR.
> 
> http://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/tty/jh/ttyman8/TeletypeManuals/model35/574-223-800TC-Iss3.pdf 
> 
> 
> John, W9DDD
> 
> On 2/2/2021 3:03 PM, Joe Clanin wrote:
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I'm sorting through some parts and am having trouble identifying a 
>> gear marked "197779". I've only been able to turn up price catalog 
>> listings containing this number on navy-radio.com 
>> <http://navy-radio.com>, but with no information apart from the price.
>>
>> It is 3.8" in diameter, 0.25" thick, and has 120 teeth. Picture 
>> attached. Can anyone identify it?
>>
>> -Joe
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> GreenKeys mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>
>>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: 
>>>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: 
>>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: 
>>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: 
>>>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to w9ddd at tapr.org
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> 
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: 
>>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: 
>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: 
>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: 
>>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to w9ddd at tapr.org

From nagle at animats.com  Tue Feb  2 16:23:49 2021
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 13:23:49 -0800
Subject: [GreenKeys] Help identifying a gear
In-Reply-To: <mailman.923.1612299907.10339.greenkeys@mailman.qth.net>
References: <mailman.923.1612299907.10339.greenkeys@mailman.qth.net>
Message-ID: <496f9870-63f8-eb1a-5c03-0effd781b0ce@animats.com>

From: Joe Clanin <macbax1 at gmail.com>
Subject: [GreenKeys] Help identifying a gear

 > I'm sorting through some parts and am having trouble
 > identifying a gear
 > marked "197779".
 > It is 3.8" in diameter, 0.25" thick, and has 120 teeth.
 > Picture attached.
 > Can anyone identify it?

It's nylon, so it's 1950s or later.
It looks like something from the motor power train of a
Teletype Model 33. See:

https://www.vintage-computer.com/images/asr33_4.jpg

I don't really know those models well, but they did
have some nylon gears.

The tickets mentioning speed indicate it's part of
the power train, and you can change gears to get
different speeds or operate on 50Hz.

			John Nagle

From navy.radio at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 18:18:05 2021
From: navy.radio at gmail.com (Nick England)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 18:18:05 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] More Teletype Specifications on line
Message-ID: <CAB55hNfGBYAT9GD5OUFz4mgzcJQTcsnai8f3bS2cnDFtBV_guQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks to Jim Cooper W2JC, I have scanned and posted 66 more Specifications
at
http://www.navy-radio.com/tty/ttycorp-specs.htm
Search on W2JC to find the new additions.
Or browse here -
http://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/tty/jc/

Happy reading!
Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com
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From navy.radio at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 18:20:48 2021
From: navy.radio at gmail.com (Nick England)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 18:20:48 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Wanted - Teletype Specification 50400S
Message-ID: <CAB55hNeXTZmYbwsLG5nt+1_O_gY9M8v8dYF8GuXiuqv7L3_yig@mail.gmail.com>

 Wanted - Specification 50400S - instructions for the model 28 LK55
keyboard with photoelectric signal generator for model 28 page printer sets
Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com
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From WA6ZCB at sbcglobal.net  Tue Feb  2 22:24:38 2021
From: WA6ZCB at sbcglobal.net (WA6ZCB at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 03:24:38 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [GreenKeys] 2m/70cm repeater net
In-Reply-To: <000601d6f8ad$d3890010$7a9b0030$@net>
References: <FAB3C394-EA11-4CEB-A385-8151257435BE@k6yic.com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2102011747530.70858@aneurin.horsfall.org>
	<000601d6f8ad$d3890010$7a9b0030$@net>
Message-ID: <1306420788.1450530.1612322678280@mail.yahoo.com>

 As a repeater owner of a system in SoCal it is interesting to note that per local requirements from TASMA, SCRRBA & 220-TASMA all coordinated repeaters are REQUIRED to run PL on the uplink due to the population of operators.? My system, W6CDW, on Elsinore Peak, runs full PL for both up and down link and still has an occasional issue.? With 3 operational channels on 2, 1.25 & 70 cm it requires 3 control operators to oversee daily operations and they do a fabulous job.? Incidentally, we are also available on echolink and allstar which presents another set of considerations.? Here in Texas there are more repeaters than operators so the "rules" are not quite as stringent.? Please feel free to stop by and shoot the breeze sometime.? 73, Cliff? W5SQI / W6CDW 

WWW.SQRADIOCLUB.COM

    On Monday, February 1, 2021, 9:21:25 AM CST, Ralph Mowery <rmowery42 at charter.net> wrote:  
 
 It looks like you are under the rules similar to the ones in the US about 30
to 40 years ago.? For a while in the 1970's we had to license repeaters
under the call of WRnxxx.? There had to be map circles drawn and out to so
many miles the height of the antenna above average ground level calculated.
After a few years the FCC relaxed the rules and now the repeaters are not
regulated very much.? Anyone can just put up one anywhere they want and
stick their own call on it.? Not much difference in just setting up your
home station.? 

When I got into RTTY there was a RTTY repeater on our 220 MHz band with
about 20 users.? After a while the users dropped out and the repeater went
off the air.? 

Now in the US in many areas the 2 meter and 440 MHz bands are filled up and
there is sort of a priority of giving any pair that opens up to the digital
voice type repeaters.

Ralph ku4pt


-----Original Message-----
From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net
[mailto:greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Dave Horsfall
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2021 2:07 AM
To: Greenkeys
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] 2m/70cm repeater net

On Sun, 31 Jan 2021, Daniel Jones wrote:

> A bunch of us down here in SoCal are experimenting with using 2m/70cm 
> repeaters to start a local RTTY net.

Dunno about USA, but here down-under you'd get strung up by the nuts if 
you tried that on a voice repeater; for starters it would likely be 
illegal.

That said, there was a mixed voice/RTTY repeater in Sydney; I have no idea 
whether it's still operating, as RTTY (on other than HF) is all but dead 
and I'm no longer in Sydney.

Quickly checks the callbook: nope, VK2RTY is gone...

(Here in Oz, repeaters are separately licenced and are administered by a 
club or other organisation; they, along with beacons, have the callsigns 
VKnRxx.)

-- Dave VK2KFU

______________________________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net

>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to wa6zcb at sbcglobal.net
  
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From jim at k6ccc.org  Tue Feb  2 23:59:20 2021
From: jim at k6ccc.org (Jim Walls)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 20:59:20 -0800
Subject: [GreenKeys] 2m/70cm repeater net
In-Reply-To: <1306420788.1450530.1612322678280@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <FAB3C394-EA11-4CEB-A385-8151257435BE@k6yic.com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2102011747530.70858@aneurin.horsfall.org>
	<000601d6f8ad$d3890010$7a9b0030$@net>
	<1306420788.1450530.1612322678280@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <18af2a4b-8099-bf9c-5518-ae06be31f17c@k6ccc.org>

On 02/02/2021 19:24, WA6ZCB at sbcglobal.net wrote:
> As a repeater owner of a system in SoCal it is interesting to note 
> that per local requirements from TASMA, SCRRBA & 220-TASMA all 
> coordinated repeaters are REQUIRED to run PL on the uplink due to the 
> population of operators.

Actually, no, you are NOT required to run PL.? You are required to run 
some form of input protection - in other words, not operate carrier 
squelch.? That may be PL, DPL, NAC, or some other system that will 
prevent an un-intended carrier to key up the repeater. For a RTTY 
repeater, that would most likely be Mark tone.? Back when 146.70 (and a 
few others) were operating RTTY, you could not key up the repeaters 
without Mark tone.? There are several analog repeaters that use 
something other than PL or DPL for input protection, and of course none 
of the digital repeaters are using PL.

BTW, it's 220 SMA (not 220-TASMA).? I was a 220 SMA co-ordinator for 
many years.

-- 
73
-------------------------------------
Jim Walls - K6CCC
jim at k6ccc.org
Ofc:  818-548-4804
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/k6ccc/
AMSAT Member 32537 - WSWSS Member 395


From pbirkel at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 11:39:46 2021
From: pbirkel at gmail.com (Paul Birkel)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 11:39:46 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] M15 with Frozen Dashpot
In-Reply-To: <c641af8b-45b2-d3f3-3f73-00bb60eb535a@animats.com>
References: <mailman.592.1612128219.10339.greenkeys@mailman.qth.net>
	<c641af8b-45b2-d3f3-3f73-00bb60eb535a@animats.com>
Message-ID: <01fa01d6fa4b$2f627080$8e275180$@gmail.com>

Thank you John.  I'm not "dreaming things" then :->.  I've successfully
followed your directions with the principal variance that I used Kroil
(on-hand) rather than Locktite freeze and release spray, applying several
drops several times around the piston shaft at the outer end.  I chucked a
piece of bar stock firmly into a vise and used that to get a firm purchase
on the flat-lip (not the correct designation, I'm sure) near the end of the
shaft.  And then exerted a steady firm pull until the shaft suddenly slid
along its range.  Then was able to remove and inspect.  Two different places
on the shaft were essentially "varnished".  After cleaning those, inspecting
the bore (clean!), and then checking the leather seal (looks and works fine)
I reassembled and lubricated using 5W-20 synthetic oil (on-hand).  Now
sliding smoothly and acting like a working dashpot :->!

Having set up a local loop I see that I've got another problem or two
somewhere involving the type-basket.  But at least the CAR RET works fine.
And the BELL too!

-----Original Message-----
From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net
[mailto:greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of John Nagle
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2021 4:48 PM
To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: [GreenKeys] M15 with Frozen Dashpot

I've had that happen. Someone used a lubricant
with heavy fractions, and the light components evaporated leaving
the asphalt component behind. This is why I lubricate machines
with 0-20W synthetic motor oil, which has no heavy fractions.

It's reasonably easy to get the entire dashpot out. Then
remove the top, so you can get the piston out. The shaft
is probably stuck where it goes through the top.
That's metal to metal, so you can use Locktite freeze
and release spray. That shrinks the metal and opens
up enough space for its penetrating oil component to get in.

Once you get the piston moving, take it out and clean
the inside and outside of the piston shaft and hole of
whatever gunk was jamming the piston.

While you have the piston out, check the leather
seal on the dashpot. That's the only leather part
in a Teletype. I suggest lubricating that with
Hydrophane leather dressing, which is a silicone oil
used on horse tack. It won't evaporate and dry out.
(Incidentally, if you just paint that stuff on a
cheap leather jacket with a paintbrush,  in
a day or two the oil will disappear, the leather
will become nice and soft, and it will stay that
way for decades. Doesn't change the color, either.)

			John Nagle
______________________________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net

>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to pbirkel at gmail.com


From pbirkel at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 14:30:17 2021
From: pbirkel at gmail.com (Paul Birkel)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 14:30:17 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] M15 Restoration -- Type Bar Basket
Message-ID: <025101d6fa63$014195b0$03c4c110$@gmail.com>

I'm in the process of bringing an M15 back into service after a long period
of storage.  This is the unit that was previously used by a MARS member that
I've mentioned in previous queries.  The dash pot is now unfrozen and I've
been able to set up a local loop.  I'm using a REC11, so plenty of loop
power; the loop is currently running at 62 mA.  The resulting behavior is
not yet explicable.  As this is the first green keys "recovery" that I've
attempted I can use a bit of guidance!

 

The general behavior is that the selector unit and vanes appear to be
responding correctly to the keyboard.  FIGS and LTRS shift/unshift the type
bar basket properly (controlled by the bottom vane) and the (FIGS) BELL key
works.  Other keys work, but with sometimes incorrect results (although in
most cases given the lack of printing it's hard to discern beyond obvious
consequences like a SPACE resulting in a CAR RET).  The principal behaviors
are that:

 

1.     No type bar is ever triggered, nor does the ribbon advance.  The type
bars are all freely moveable.

 

2.     Key presses appear to advance the type bar basket double; 38
key-presses advance the basket across the full width of the platen and then
further key-presses have no effect.

 

3.     CAR RET causes either a full return, or a partial return to approx..
the 10-char position (in which case a second CAR RET returns the basket to
full-left).  It's always one or the other.

 

4.     LINE FEED usually works, but not always.

 

I notice that the PULL BAR BAIL floats forwards-and-backwards rather than
being held firmly against the front PRINTING BAIL BLADE.  This doesn't seem
right to me.  Perhaps I have a lost or incorrectly positioned spring
somewhere?

 

The PULL BAR BAIL behavior, what appears to be double-advance per key-press,
and the lack of ever triggering any type bar, seem to me to be the key
anomalous behaviors.

 

I can imagine that there may be a timing problem (or perhaps related
lubrication problem affecting vane control) resulting in erratic behavior on
a per-key basis (even the space is erratic, sometimes causing a CAR RET),
but I'd like to first get "basic operations" functional before probing
further.

 

I have not at this point attempted to clean and (re)lubricate any mechanisms
beyond the dash pot.  I absolutely want to avoid major disassembly, unless I
have no other option.  I don't trust myself to get it reassembled and
adjusted properly afterwards!  I do intend to go over all of the lubrication
points once I'm closer to working order.

 

Do I need remove the type-bar carriage, invert, and check/lubricate
everything there before proceeding further?  I don't think that would affect
the double-advance per key-press behavior, but I have much to learn.

 

I do note that it seems as of the motor generates a lot of ozone.  But it
sounds completely normal to me; hums right along.

 

Your thoughts?  I'll keep studying TM11-2215 .

 

Thank you,

paul

 

 

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From hanyou at xsmail.com  Wed Feb  3 14:54:00 2021
From: hanyou at xsmail.com (E.)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 13:54:00 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] M15 Restoration -- Type Bar Basket
In-Reply-To: <025101d6fa63$014195b0$03c4c110$@gmail.com>
References: <025101d6fa63$014195b0$03c4c110$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <18EC9CA4-E9D4-472C-9055-FFDBC4B0B21A@xsmail.com>


I?ll read this over more in detail after lunch, but the first thing that comes to mind is to oil/lubricate? always oil and lubricate.  Going to cause major problems if you don?t ;o ?

?the second real thing (for now) is to take out the type basket and un-seize the ribbon spool shafts.  Every time the basket advances, interconnected gears advance the ribbon.  If those are frozen, then it?s probably gumming up the works on the rest of the basket and if you?re not careful, you?ll have a bent part or even a stripped gear.

That?d be my two first line of attacks :) .  Good luck ^^ !


> On Feb 3, 2021, at 1:30 pm, Paul Birkel <pbirkel at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I?m in the process of bringing an M15 back into service after a long period of storage.  This is the unit that was previously used by a MARS member that I?ve mentioned in previous queries.  The dash pot is now unfrozen and I?ve been able to set up a local loop.  I?m using a REC11, so plenty of loop power; the loop is currently running at 62 mA.  The resulting behavior is not yet explicable.  As this is the first green keys ?recovery? that I?ve attempted I can use a bit of guidance!
>  
> The general behavior is that the selector unit and vanes appear to be responding correctly to the keyboard.  FIGS and LTRS shift/unshift the type bar basket properly (controlled by the bottom vane) and the (FIGS) BELL key works.  Other keys work, but with sometimes incorrect results (although in most cases given the lack of printing it?s hard to discern beyond obvious consequences like a SPACE resulting in a CAR RET).  The principal behaviors are that:
>  
> 1.     No type bar is ever triggered, nor does the ribbon advance.  The type bars are all freely moveable.
>  
> 2.     Key presses appear to advance the type bar basket double; 38 key-presses advance the basket across the full width of the platen and then further key-presses have no effect.
>  
> 3.     CAR RET causes either a full return, or a partial return to approx.. the 10-char position (in which case a second CAR RET returns the basket to full-left).  It?s always one or the other.
>  
> 4.     LINE FEED usually works, but not always.
>  
> I notice that the PULL BAR BAIL floats forwards-and-backwards rather than being held firmly against the front PRINTING BAIL BLADE.  This doesn?t seem right to me.  Perhaps I have a lost or incorrectly positioned spring somewhere?
>  
> The PULL BAR BAIL behavior, what appears to be double-advance per key-press, and the lack of ever triggering any type bar, seem to me to be the key anomalous behaviors.
>  
> I can imagine that there may be a timing problem (or perhaps related lubrication problem affecting vane control) resulting in erratic behavior on a per-key basis (even the space is erratic, sometimes causing a CAR RET), but I?d like to first get ?basic operations? functional before probing further.
>  
> I have not at this point attempted to clean and (re)lubricate any mechanisms beyond the dash pot.  I absolutely want to avoid major disassembly, unless I have no other option.  I don?t trust myself to get it reassembled and adjusted properly afterwards!  I do intend to go over all of the lubrication points once I?m closer to working order.
>  
> Do I need remove the type-bar carriage, invert, and check/lubricate everything there before proceeding further?  I don?t think that would affect the double-advance per key-press behavior, but I have much to learn.
>  
> I do note that it seems as of the motor generates a lot of ozone.  But it sounds completely normal to me; hums right along.
>  
> Your thoughts?  I?ll keep studying TM11-2215 ?
>  
> Thank you,
> paul
>  
>  
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> 
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to hanyou at xsmail.com


From jim.w2jc at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 14:58:53 2021
From: jim.w2jc at gmail.com (Jim Cooper)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2021 14:58:53 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] M15 Restoration -- Type Bar Basket
In-Reply-To: <025101d6fa63$014195b0$03c4c110$@gmail.com>
References: <025101d6fa63$014195b0$03c4c110$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <601B007D.17470.5E4FD8F@jim.w2jc.gmail.com>

On 3 Feb 2021 at 14:30, Paul Birkel wrote:

> The PULL BAR BAIL behavior, what
> appears to be double-advance per
> key-press, and the lack of ever
> triggering any type bar, seem to me
> to be the key anomalous behaviors. 

I would say you are on the right track. 
The pull bar bail should engage the selected 
type bar and throw it against the platen. 
  
> I can imagine that there may be a
> timing problem (or perhaps related
> lubrication problem affecting vane
> control) resulting in erratic
> behavior on a per-key basis (even the
> space is erratic, sometimes causing
> a CAR RET), but I'd like to first get
> "basic operations" functional before
> probing further. 

it sounds like your errors are caused by 
the vanes not being selected properly. 

First suggestion I have is turn the motor OFF. 
Have the kbd and sel. mags in the look. 
Press a key such as R; 
Slowly rotate the motor (using the fan) in the 
  proper direction; 
the kbd should generate the proper bits as the 
motor turns; 
the sel. mag. will respond to the mark or space 
from the kbd as you turn the motor slowly; 
after the 5 bits and the stop bit, the vanes 
  should be properly selected for the R 
  (I suggest R because, like the RY test, it is 
  the code where each vane is opposite to the 
  adjacent ones). 
if you don't type anotheer character on the kbd, 
  then continuing to rotate the motor should cause 
  the printing functions to follow through... 
if the vanes are properly set, the watch the print 
  bail and see if it catches the R typebar; 
whatever does not work in that sequence is where 
  you need to focus attention first ! 

do the vanes flip back and forth easily ?
did the selector magnet pull and release properly 
  for each code bit?

w2jc




From pbirkel at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 15:05:38 2021
From: pbirkel at gmail.com (Paul Birkel)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 15:05:38 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] TM 11-486 & TM 11-680
Message-ID: <026701d6fa67$f12fb760$d38f2620$@gmail.com>

I found a copy of TM 11-680 here:
https://radionerds.com/index.php/File:TM_11-680_TELETYPEWRITER_CIRCUITS_AND_
EQUIPMENT.pdf

 

Not luck as yet finding a copy online of TM 11-486 Electrical Communications
Systems Engineering (1945), however there is an outline here:
http://www.military-info.com/Aphoto/TM%2011_486.htm

 

Is TM 11-486 perhaps published under a different number by the USN?  Or
hiding somewhere in our collective archives :->?

 

Thank you.

 

-----

 

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From hanyou at xsmail.com  Wed Feb  3 15:12:16 2021
From: hanyou at xsmail.com (E.)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 14:12:16 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] M15 Restoration -- Type Bar Basket
In-Reply-To: <025101d6fa63$014195b0$03c4c110$@gmail.com>
References: <025101d6fa63$014195b0$03c4c110$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1231EDE1-55ED-4295-B3B9-A38348EB347C@xsmail.com>


Sorry, I misread what you typed - I?m a bad multitasker ;p .  Ignore me ;) ? but do oil ;o .


> On Feb 3, 2021, at 1:30 pm, Paul Birkel <pbirkel at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I?m in the process of bringing an M15 back into service after a long period of storage.  This is the unit that was previously used by a MARS member that I?ve mentioned in previous queries.  The dash pot is now unfrozen and I?ve been able to set up a local loop.  I?m using a REC11, so plenty of loop power; the loop is currently running at 62 mA.  The resulting behavior is not yet explicable.  As this is the first green keys ?recovery? that I?ve attempted I can use a bit of guidance!
>  
> The general behavior is that the selector unit and vanes appear to be responding correctly to the keyboard.  FIGS and LTRS shift/unshift the type bar basket properly (controlled by the bottom vane) and the (FIGS) BELL key works.  Other keys work, but with sometimes incorrect results (although in most cases given the lack of printing it?s hard to discern beyond obvious consequences like a SPACE resulting in a CAR RET).  The principal behaviors are that:
>  
> 1.     No type bar is ever triggered, nor does the ribbon advance.  The type bars are all freely moveable.
> 
>  
> 
> 2.     Key presses appear to advance the type bar basket double; 38 key-presses advance the basket across the full width of the platen and then further key-presses have no effect.
> 
>  
> 3.     CAR RET causes either a full return, or a partial return to approx.. the 10-char position (in which case a second CAR RET returns the basket to full-left).  It?s always one or the other.
> 
>  
> 4.     LINE FEED usually works, but not always.
> 
>  
> I notice that the PULL BAR BAIL floats forwards-and-backwards rather than being held firmly against the front PRINTING BAIL BLADE.  This doesn?t seem right to me.  Perhaps I have a lost or incorrectly positioned spring somewhere?
>  
> The PULL BAR BAIL behavior, what appears to be double-advance per key-press, and the lack of ever triggering any type bar, seem to me to be the key anomalous behaviors.
>  
> I can imagine that there may be a timing problem (or perhaps related lubrication problem affecting vane control) resulting in erratic behavior on a per-key basis (even the space is erratic, sometimes causing a CAR RET), but I?d like to first get ?basic operations? functional before probing further.
>  
> I have not at this point attempted to clean and (re)lubricate any mechanisms beyond the dash pot.  I absolutely want to avoid major disassembly, unless I have no other option.  I don?t trust myself to get it reassembled and adjusted properly afterwards!  I do intend to go over all of the lubrication points once I?m closer to working order.
>  
> Do I need remove the type-bar carriage, invert, and check/lubricate everything there before proceeding further?  I don?t think that would affect the double-advance per key-press behavior, but I have much to learn.
>  
> I do note that it seems as of the motor generates a lot of ozone.  But it sounds completely normal to me; hums right along.
>  
> Your thoughts?  I?ll keep studying TM11-2215 ?
>  
> Thank you,
> paul
>  
>  
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> 
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to hanyou at xsmail.com


From duncanancy at earthlink.net  Wed Feb  3 15:30:34 2021
From: duncanancy at earthlink.net (Duncan Brown)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 15:30:34 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] TM 11-486 & TM 11-680
In-Reply-To: <026701d6fa67$f12fb760$d38f2620$@gmail.com>
References: <026701d6fa67$f12fb760$d38f2620$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <67b73643-ede5-13d8-1c0e-87b2fda331e6@earthlink.net>

Paul,

did you try the Internet Archive? 
https://archive.org/details/US-army-technical-manuals/TM-11-468/mode/2up

Not sure it is what you are looking for. It is a 1954 edition and 
labeled "Substation Maintenance"

Duncan
K2OEQ


On 03-Feb-21 15:05, Paul Birkel wrote:
>
> I found a copy of TM 11-680 here: 
> https://radionerds.com/index.php/File:TM_11-680_TELETYPEWRITER_CIRCUITS_AND_EQUIPMENT.pdf 
> <https://radionerds.com/index.php/File:TM_11-680_TELETYPEWRITER_CIRCUITS_AND_EQUIPMENT.pdf>
>
> Not luck as yet finding a copy online of TM 11-486 Electrical 
> Communications Systems Engineering (1945), however there is an outline 
> here: http://www.military-info.com/Aphoto/TM%2011_486.htm 
> <http://www.military-info.com/Aphoto/TM%2011_486.htm>
>
> Is TM 11-486 perhaps published under a different number by the USN?? 
> Or hiding somewhere in our collective archives :->?
>
> Thank you.
>
> -----
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to duncanancy at earthlink.net


From duncanancy at earthlink.net  Wed Feb  3 15:34:24 2021
From: duncanancy at earthlink.net (Duncan Brown)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 15:34:24 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Fwd:  TM 11-486 & TM 11-680
In-Reply-To: <67b73643-ede5-13d8-1c0e-87b2fda331e6@earthlink.net>
References: <67b73643-ede5-13d8-1c0e-87b2fda331e6@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <28927cf6-0ef8-d55b-eecb-e0089ba9316a@earthlink.net>


Paul,

I just took a closer look at that page and there are two pdfs for TM 11-486.
Item 7 is the 1954 edition
Item 13, "TM_11-486.pdf" is the 1945 edition.

Duncan
K2OEQ

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: 	Re: [GreenKeys] TM 11-486 & TM 11-680
Date: 	Wed, 3 Feb 2021 15:30:34 -0500
From: 	Duncan Brown <duncanancy at earthlink.net>
To: 	greenkeys at mailman.qth.net



Paul,

did you try the Internet Archive? 
https://archive.org/details/US-army-technical-manuals/TM-11-468/mode/2up

Not sure it is what you are looking for. It is a 1954 edition and 
labeled "Substation Maintenance"

Duncan
K2OEQ


On 03-Feb-21 15:05, Paul Birkel wrote:
>
> I found a copy of TM 11-680 here: 
> https://radionerds.com/index.php/File:TM_11-680_TELETYPEWRITER_CIRCUITS_AND_EQUIPMENT.pdf 
> <https://radionerds.com/index.php/File:TM_11-680_TELETYPEWRITER_CIRCUITS_AND_EQUIPMENT.pdf>
>
> Not luck as yet finding a copy online of TM 11-486 Electrical 
> Communications Systems Engineering (1945), however there is an outline 
> here: http://www.military-info.com/Aphoto/TM%2011_486.htm 
> <http://www.military-info.com/Aphoto/TM%2011_486.htm>
>
> Is TM 11-486 perhaps published under a different number by the USN?? 
> Or hiding somewhere in our collective archives :->?
>
> Thank you.
>
> -----
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: 
>>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: 
>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: 
>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: 
>>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to duncanancy at earthlink.net


From navy.radio at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 16:53:32 2021
From: navy.radio at gmail.com (Nick England)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 16:53:32 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] TM 11-486 & TM 11-680
In-Reply-To: <026701d6fa67$f12fb760$d38f2620$@gmail.com>
References: <026701d6fa67$f12fb760$d38f2620$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB55hNdh5XQ2oTTitjpU6hc8uidAcbdc-UrQXop-95x=oHiE+Q@mail.gmail.com>

I?ve got a copy of 11-486. It is about 1200 pages and I?d have to rip it
apart to run through my scanner / or spend many boring days doing it one
page at a time. Best to wait for Google to do it some day!

Look here for some other Army/Navy manuals that may be of interest.
http://www.navy-radio.com/manuals-ttycorp.htm#books


Cheers
Nick

On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 3:08 PM Paul Birkel <pbirkel at gmail.com> wrote:

> I found a copy of TM 11-680 here:
> https://radionerds.com/index.php/File:TM_11-680_TELETYPEWRITER_CIRCUITS_AND_EQUIPMENT.pdf
>
>
>
> Not luck as yet finding a copy online of TM 11-486 Electrical
> Communications Systems Engineering (1945), however there is an outline
> here:  http://www.military-info.com/Aphoto/TM%2011_486.htm
>
>
>
> Is TM 11-486 perhaps published under a different number by the USN?  Or
> hiding somewhere in our collective archives :->?
>
>
>
> Thank you.
>
>
>
> -----
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to navy.radio at gmail.com

-- 
Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com
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From gblock at sbcglobal.net  Wed Feb  3 17:03:59 2021
From: gblock at sbcglobal.net (Gerry Block)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 22:03:59 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [GreenKeys] TM 11-486 & TM 11-680
In-Reply-To: <026701d6fa67$f12fb760$d38f2620$@gmail.com>
References: <026701d6fa67$f12fb760$d38f2620$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1184962471.1551408.1612389839826@mail.yahoo.com>

 Gents
I have an original TM11-680 1947 edition, in a USAF binder, in excellent condition.In same binder 1959 edition of model 28 Page Printer Set Instructions/Parts TO 31W4-4-5-41C.?? 

Would anyone like to have this?
GerryAD6MC

    On Wednesday, February 3, 2021, 12:08:19 PM PST, Paul Birkel <pbirkel at gmail.com> wrote:  
 
 
I found a copy of TM 11-680 here: https://radionerds.com/index.php/File:TM_11-680_TELETYPEWRITER_CIRCUITS_AND_EQUIPMENT.pdf

 ?

Not luck as yet finding a copy online of TM 11-486 Electrical Communications Systems Engineering (1945), however there is an outline here:? http://www.military-info.com/Aphoto/TM%2011_486.htm

 ?

Is TM 11-486 perhaps published under a different number by the USN?? Or hiding somewhere in our collective archives :->?

 ?

Thank you.

 ?

-----

 ?
______________________________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net

>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to gblock at sbcglobal.net  
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From gblock at sbcglobal.net  Wed Feb  3 17:11:11 2021
From: gblock at sbcglobal.net (Gerry Block)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 22:11:11 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [GreenKeys] Original Documentation
References: <7109636.1548764.1612390271913.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7109636.1548764.1612390271913@mail.yahoo.com>

I have a very large binder (old brown Teletype leatherette type with the ribbon logo) which contains what I believer are a complete set of 15/19 manuals (except for table) plus some original (1953) model 28 manuals and other assorted goodies.

Anyone interested in that?
GerryAD6MC
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From gblock at sbcglobal.net  Wed Feb  3 17:37:40 2021
From: gblock at sbcglobal.net (Gerry Block)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 22:37:40 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [GreenKeys] Original Documentation
In-Reply-To: <7109636.1548764.1612390271913@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <7109636.1548764.1612390271913.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<7109636.1548764.1612390271913@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2058504519.1553828.1612391860126@mail.yahoo.com>

 Spoken for.

    On Wednesday, February 3, 2021, 2:12:37 PM PST, Gerry Block <gblock at sbcglobal.net> wrote:  
 
 I have a very large binder (old brown Teletype leatherette type with the ribbon logo) which contains what I believer are a complete set of 15/19 manuals (except for table) plus some original (1953) model 28 manuals and other assorted goodies.

Anyone interested in that?
GerryAD6MC
______________________________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net

>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to gblock at sbcglobal.net  
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From dave at horsfall.org  Wed Feb  3 19:44:26 2021
From: dave at horsfall.org (Dave Horsfall)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 11:44:26 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [GreenKeys] Fwd: Re:  2m/70cm repeater net
In-Reply-To: <6256b121-745a-4d2b-96b9-3844ea446680@verizon.net>
References: <df640c96-fe28-c464-5d33-f8c58c83c9ce@verizon.net>
	<6256b121-745a-4d2b-96b9-3844ea446680@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2102041129560.70858@aneurin.horsfall.org>

On Sun, 31 Jan 2021, Bruce Gentry via GreenKeys wrote:

[...]

> I have a complaint about all repeaters on all frequencies today that 
> could well be your problem. I think the need and application of tone 
> squelch or Channel Guard as we call it here in Syracuse General Electric 
> land is over done.??? It severely reduces the chances to use older 
> equipment, especially military surplus, and is likely interfering with 
> your AFSK??? RTTY. ...

Because of all sorts of increasing QRM, VK (and perhaps ZL) has settled on 
a standard CTCSS tone of 91.5 where needed; our emergency support service 
(WICEN) uses 123 for historical reasons (and it's just as well that we use 
50Hz and not 60Hz!).

Boards are available from the usual sources; they can be strapped for
any CTCSS tone, and the level is easily adjustable.  I guess that would
upset the purists though, but that's progress for you...

-- Dave VK2KFU

From wcwuttke at att.net  Wed Feb  3 19:58:47 2021
From: wcwuttke at att.net (William Wuttke)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 16:58:47 -0800
Subject: [GreenKeys] RTTY Signal Report Test
In-Reply-To: <91EC47D7-8ED1-4913-BC24-94EFBEBA444D@att.net>
References: <91EC47D7-8ED1-4913-BC24-94EFBEBA444D.ref@att.net>
	<91EC47D7-8ED1-4913-BC24-94EFBEBA444D@att.net>
Message-ID: <802E79C9-61DA-4B4F-A8F8-1966148A972B@att.net>

Update: Thanks to all for the testing help.

In order to get my software to parse properly, you should use a CRLF before and after
the QSA query line:

?<CRLF>KE3BK KE3BK DE YOURCALL YOURCALL QSA?<CRLF>?


Thanks & 73,
Bill
KE3BK

> On Feb 1, 2021, at 4:55 PM, William Wuttke <wcwuttke at att.net> wrote:
> 
> I?ve been fiddling around with some software and have a function ready for some
> real-world testing. If you get a chance, send the following (your callsign  in YOURCALL)
> on 14.083875 MHz mark freq daytime until 2400Z or 7.083875 MHz after 2400Z:
> 
> ?KE3BK KE3BK DE YOURCALL YOURCALL QSA??
> 
> If I decode everything properly, you will receive a signal report.
> 
> 73,
> Bill
> KE3BK


From ka2ivy at verizon.net  Wed Feb  3 20:37:34 2021
From: ka2ivy at verizon.net (Bruce Gentry)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 20:37:34 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Fwd: Re: 2m/70cm repeater net
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2102041129560.70858@aneurin.horsfall.org>
References: <df640c96-fe28-c464-5d33-f8c58c83c9ce@verizon.net>
	<6256b121-745a-4d2b-96b9-3844ea446680@verizon.net>
	<alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2102041129560.70858@aneurin.horsfall.org>
Message-ID: <8ce26277-b3ad-5286-7448-182c5775835f@verizon.net>

My point is- when a voice net is going to be held, could the net control 
turn off the Channel Guard for the hour or so the net will last if there 
is no interference experienced?  I fully understand local conditions may 
preclude this, but here in Central New York it would usually be fine. 
Hacking up legacy and military surplus equipment is something many want 
to avoid.  Some of us would like to get our fifty year old 2 meter 
handheld or shoulder bag rigs off the shelf once in a while for 
something other than simplex.  As for RTTY repeaters, why not call them 
up by hitting "LTRS-LTRS- CR" and whatever appropriate ID is needed at 
the beginning of each transmission instead of Channel Guard tone?  Other 
countries may have different regulations.

       Bruce Gentry, KA2IVY









On 2/3/21 19:44, Dave Horsfall wrote:
> On Sun, 31 Jan 2021, Bruce Gentry via GreenKeys wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> I have a complaint about all repeaters on all frequencies today that 
>> could well be your problem. I think the need and application of tone 
>> squelch or Channel Guard as we call it here in Syracuse General 
>> Electric land is over done.??? It severely reduces the chances to use 
>> older equipment, especially military surplus, and is likely 
>> interfering with your AFSK??? RTTY. ...
>
> Because of all sorts of increasing QRM, VK (and perhaps ZL) has 
> settled on a standard CTCSS tone of 91.5 where needed; our emergency 
> support service (WICEN) uses 123 for historical reasons (and it's just 
> as well that we use 50Hz and not 60Hz!).
>
> Boards are available from the usual sources; they can be strapped for
> any CTCSS tone, and the level is easily adjustable.  I guess that would
> upset the purists though, but that's progress for you...
>
> -- Dave VK2KFU
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to ka2ivy at verizon.net

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From kn4ucl at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 21:36:33 2021
From: kn4ucl at gmail.com (Andy KN4UCL)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 21:36:33 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] shockingly basic question - Teletype Model 33 ASR
In-Reply-To: <88DB3FAA-9EDF-43B4-871A-89DCD2BC4DCC@yahoo.com>
References: <CA+H6KCmi0+sUnPETC6VxhQKMhwcjopw3n3VX1i6QUibbqECvVQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<88DB3FAA-9EDF-43B4-871A-89DCD2BC4DCC@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CA+H6KCmq1UJ0MWifD6MVPQ25CFcN2S1o4z-zAVXfQpmiLbfdFA@mail.gmail.com>

I think I am still missing a trick or two here...I tried every combination
of 8 and 7 even/odd/none/mark/space and I get no printing at all with 8
bit, but moderately bad spelling errors with 7.  See attachment below...
presumably this means I have the non-parity keyboard?

thanks in advance for your thoughts!
Andy

On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 8:18 PM Mike Douglas <deramp5113 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> If you select 8 bit with mark parity on your terminal server, you?ll
> probably get the 8N2 timing the Teletype requires (the mark parity bit
> serves as the first stop bit).
>
> Mike
>
> On Jan 31, 2021, at 7:11 PM, Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ?
> Thanks guys for the responses - a lot of great info for me to digest!
>
> My terminal server (Equinox ELS-16) allows me to define character size as
> 7 or 8 bits, and to set parity as NONE, ODD, EVEN, MARK or SPACE.
>
> I don't seem to have the ability to specifically state the number of stop
> bits, however.
>
> Anyway.. I'm going to crack my Teletype open and confirm exactly what's
> going on.
> cheers!
> Andy
>
> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 5:43 PM Keith Lueck <kwlueck at swbell.net> wrote:
>
>> Jim & Wayne are spot-on, of course.  I learned the hard way that you best
>> include the parity bit - even though the 33 doesn't give a whit about
>> parity...
>> My machine was occasionally producing errors when I was feeding it 7 N
>> 2.  Wayne Durkee set me straight, and, viola, when I sent it 7 M 2,
>> everything was 100% ducky.
>>
>> On Sunday, January 31, 2021, 03:32:30 PM CST, Jim Haynes <
>> jhhaynes at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> All the 33s and 35s generate 11 unit code.  1 start bit, 7 data bits, one
>> bit which may be even parity or may be marking, and two stop bits.  That's
>> where 110 baud comes from. 100 wpm = 10 chars/sec and each char contains
>> 11 bits.  The reason for two stop bits is the difficulty of making a
>> mechanical selector that is reliable at 100 wpm.
>>
>>     ---
>>
>>     "Ya can argue all ya wanna, but it's dif'rent than it was."
>>     "No it ain't! No it ain't!  But ya gotta know the territory."
>>         Meredith Willson, The Music Man
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> GreenKeys mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>
>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to kwlueck at swbell.net
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>
> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>
> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>
> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to deramp5113 at yahoo.com
>
>
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From deramp5113 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb  3 22:00:47 2021
From: deramp5113 at yahoo.com (Mike Douglas)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 21:00:47 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] shockingly basic question - Teletype Model 33 ASR
References: <BDE4EE17-8FE6-429A-841F-C4EEBE67EADF.ref@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BDE4EE17-8FE6-429A-841F-C4EEBE67EADF@yahoo.com>

?I guess I?m confused as to your test setup then. What is sending data to your Teletype? Is it coming from an external source other than the Teletype, or are you testing by somehow looping keyboard input from your TTY back out to the TTY printer?

Mike

>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 8:36 PM, Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
> ?
> I think I am still missing a trick or two here...I tried every combination of 8 and 7 even/odd/none/mark/space and I get no printing at all with 8 bit, but moderately bad spelling errors with 7.  See attachment below... presumably this means I have the non-parity keyboard?
> 
> thanks in advance for your thoughts!
> Andy
> 
>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 8:18 PM Mike Douglas <deramp5113 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> If you select 8 bit with mark parity on your terminal server, you?ll probably get the 8N2 timing the Teletype requires (the mark parity bit serves as the first stop bit).
>> 
>> Mike
>> 
>>>> On Jan 31, 2021, at 7:11 PM, Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> ?
>>> Thanks guys for the responses - a lot of great info for me to digest!  
>>> 
>>> My terminal server (Equinox ELS-16) allows me to define character size as 7 or 8 bits, and to set parity as NONE, ODD, EVEN, MARK or SPACE. 
>>> 
>>> I don't seem to have the ability to specifically state the number of stop bits, however.
>>> 
>>> Anyway.. I'm going to crack my Teletype open and confirm exactly what's going on.
>>> cheers!
>>> Andy 
>>> 
>>>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 5:43 PM Keith Lueck <kwlueck at swbell.net> wrote:
>>>> Jim & Wayne are spot-on, of course.  I learned the hard way that you best include the parity bit - even though the 33 doesn't give a whit about parity...  
>>>> My machine was occasionally producing errors when I was feeding it 7 N 2.  Wayne Durkee set me straight, and, viola, when I sent it 7 M 2, everything was 100% ducky.  
>>>> 
>>>> On Sunday, January 31, 2021, 03:32:30 PM CST, Jim Haynes <jhhaynes at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> All the 33s and 35s generate 11 unit code.  1 start bit, 7 data bits, one
>>>> bit which may be even parity or may be marking, and two stop bits.  That's
>>>> where 110 baud comes from. 100 wpm = 10 chars/sec and each char contains 
>>>> 11 bits.  The reason for two stop bits is the difficulty of making a
>>>> mechanical selector that is reliable at 100 wpm.
>>>> 
>>>>     ---
>>>> 
>>>>     "Ya can argue all ya wanna, but it's dif'rent than it was."
>>>>     "No it ain't! No it ain't!  But ya gotta know the territory."
>>>>         Meredith Willson, The Music Man
>>>> 
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> GreenKeys mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>>> 
>>>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>>> 
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>> Message delivered to kwlueck at swbell.net
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> GreenKeys mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>> 
>>>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>> 
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to deramp5113 at yahoo.com
> 
> <non parity keyboard.png>
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From kn4ucl at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 22:22:04 2021
From: kn4ucl at gmail.com (Andy KN4UCL)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 22:22:04 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] shockingly basic question - Teletype Model 33 ASR
In-Reply-To: <BDE4EE17-8FE6-429A-841F-C4EEBE67EADF@yahoo.com>
References: <BDE4EE17-8FE6-429A-841F-C4EEBE67EADF@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B89CF151-3196-4D55-A45D-B426569310B6@gmail.com>

My Teletype has a Deramp converter which goes direct into an Equinox ELS-16 terminal server.  When I start I get a session with the terminal server and can interact directly with the server ... or telnet onwards elsewhere.

> On Feb 3, 2021, at 10:00 PM, Mike Douglas <deramp5113 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> ?I guess I?m confused as to your test setup then. What is sending data to your Teletype? Is it coming from an external source other than the Teletype, or are you testing by somehow looping keyboard input from your TTY back out to the TTY printer?
> 
> Mike
> 
>>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 8:36 PM, Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?
>> I think I am still missing a trick or two here...I tried every combination of 8 and 7 even/odd/none/mark/space and I get no printing at all with 8 bit, but moderately bad spelling errors with 7.  See attachment below... presumably this means I have the non-parity keyboard?
>> 
>> thanks in advance for your thoughts!
>> Andy
>> 
>>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 8:18 PM Mike Douglas <deramp5113 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> If you select 8 bit with mark parity on your terminal server, you?ll probably get the 8N2 timing the Teletype requires (the mark parity bit serves as the first stop bit).
>>> 
>>> Mike
>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 31, 2021, at 7:11 PM, Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>> ?
>>>> Thanks guys for the responses - a lot of great info for me to digest!  
>>>> 
>>>> My terminal server (Equinox ELS-16) allows me to define character size as 7 or 8 bits, and to set parity as NONE, ODD, EVEN, MARK or SPACE. 
>>>> 
>>>> I don't seem to have the ability to specifically state the number of stop bits, however.
>>>> 
>>>> Anyway.. I'm going to crack my Teletype open and confirm exactly what's going on.
>>>> cheers!
>>>> Andy 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 5:43 PM Keith Lueck <kwlueck at swbell.net> wrote:
>>>>> Jim & Wayne are spot-on, of course.  I learned the hard way that you best include the parity bit - even though the 33 doesn't give a whit about parity...  
>>>>> My machine was occasionally producing errors when I was feeding it 7 N 2.  Wayne Durkee set me straight, and, viola, when I sent it 7 M 2, everything was 100% ducky.  
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Sunday, January 31, 2021, 03:32:30 PM CST, Jim Haynes <jhhaynes at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> All the 33s and 35s generate 11 unit code.  1 start bit, 7 data bits, one
>>>>> bit which may be even parity or may be marking, and two stop bits.  That's
>>>>> where 110 baud comes from. 100 wpm = 10 chars/sec and each char contains 
>>>>> 11 bits.  The reason for two stop bits is the difficulty of making a
>>>>> mechanical selector that is reliable at 100 wpm.
>>>>> 
>>>>>     ---
>>>>> 
>>>>>     "Ya can argue all ya wanna, but it's dif'rent than it was."
>>>>>     "No it ain't! No it ain't!  But ya gotta know the territory."
>>>>>         Meredith Willson, The Music Man
>>>>> 
>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>>> GreenKeys mailing list
>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>>>> 
>>>>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>>>> 
>>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>>> Message delivered to kwlueck at swbell.net
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> GreenKeys mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>>> 
>>>>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>>> 
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>> Message delivered to deramp5113 at yahoo.com
>> 
>> <non parity keyboard.png>
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From deramp5113 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb  3 23:05:47 2021
From: deramp5113 at yahoo.com (Mike Douglas)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 22:05:47 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] shockingly basic question - Teletype Model 33 ASR
In-Reply-To: <B89CF151-3196-4D55-A45D-B426569310B6@gmail.com>
References: <B89CF151-3196-4D55-A45D-B426569310B6@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C2BFE42A-19EA-46EF-AFF2-2474709B1C72@yahoo.com>

Since you are concerned about the parity of your keyboard while testing the TTY printing function, I assume your terminal server is in a mode where it echos characters that you type on the TTY keyboard back out to the TTY printer and you are testing your printer by typing on the TTY keyboard?

If this is what you?re doing and you have a non-parity keyboard, then set the serial port to 7 data bits plus mark parity (non parity keyboards set the 8th bit to one). This should ensure the server accepts the typed characters. If you type one character at a time with a short pause between each character, then each character should echo properly to the TTY printer. The pause between each character will be more than the two stop bits the printer requires (and the printer ignores the 8th bit). 

If, however, you have a telnet session open and are sending data from a remote device to the TTY printer and are not using the TTY keyboard to generate test data, then set the serial port to 8 data bits plus mark parity. This will appear as 8 data bits and 2 stop bits to the printer (as it requires) and the printer can then keep up with a steady stream of data.

If you are getting some garbage characters with either of these methods but everything prints correctly in local mode, you made need to adjust the rangefinder a bit.

Mike

> On Feb 3, 2021, at 9:22 PM, Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> My Teletype has a Deramp converter which goes direct into an Equinox ELS-16 terminal server.  When I start I get a session with the terminal server and can interact directly with the server ... or telnet onwards elsewhere.
> 
>>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 10:00 PM, Mike Douglas <deramp5113 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?
>> ?I guess I?m confused as to your test setup then. What is sending data to your Teletype? Is it coming from an external source other than the Teletype, or are you testing by somehow looping keyboard input from your TTY back out to the TTY printer?
>> 
>> Mike
>> 
>>>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 8:36 PM, Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>> ?
>>> I think I am still missing a trick or two here...I tried every combination of 8 and 7 even/odd/none/mark/space and I get no printing at all with 8 bit, but moderately bad spelling errors with 7.  See attachment below... presumably this means I have the non-parity keyboard?
>>> 
>>> thanks in advance for your thoughts!
>>> Andy
>>> 
>>>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 8:18 PM Mike Douglas <deramp5113 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> If you select 8 bit with mark parity on your terminal server, you?ll probably get the 8N2 timing the Teletype requires (the mark parity bit serves as the first stop bit).
>>>> 
>>>> Mike
>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jan 31, 2021, at 7:11 PM, Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>> ?
>>>>> Thanks guys for the responses - a lot of great info for me to digest!  
>>>>> 
>>>>> My terminal server (Equinox ELS-16) allows me to define character size as 7 or 8 bits, and to set parity as NONE, ODD, EVEN, MARK or SPACE. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I don't seem to have the ability to specifically state the number of stop bits, however.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Anyway.. I'm going to crack my Teletype open and confirm exactly what's going on.
>>>>> cheers!
>>>>> Andy 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 5:43 PM Keith Lueck <kwlueck at swbell.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Jim & Wayne are spot-on, of course.  I learned the hard way that you best include the parity bit - even though the 33 doesn't give a whit about parity...  
>>>>>> My machine was occasionally producing errors when I was feeding it 7 N 2.  Wayne Durkee set me straight, and, viola, when I sent it 7 M 2, everything was 100% ducky.  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sunday, January 31, 2021, 03:32:30 PM CST, Jim Haynes <jhhaynes at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> All the 33s and 35s generate 11 unit code.  1 start bit, 7 data bits, one
>>>>>> bit which may be even parity or may be marking, and two stop bits.  That's
>>>>>> where 110 baud comes from. 100 wpm = 10 chars/sec and each char contains 
>>>>>> 11 bits.  The reason for two stop bits is the difficulty of making a
>>>>>> mechanical selector that is reliable at 100 wpm.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     ---
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     "Ya can argue all ya wanna, but it's dif'rent than it was."
>>>>>>     "No it ain't! No it ain't!  But ya gotta know the territory."
>>>>>>         Meredith Willson, The Music Man
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>>>> GreenKeys mailing list
>>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>>>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>>>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>>>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>>>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>>>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>>>> Message delivered to kwlueck at swbell.net
>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>>> GreenKeys mailing list
>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>>>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>>>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>>>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>>>> 
>>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>>> Message delivered to deramp5113 at yahoo.com
>>> 
>>> <non parity keyboard.png>
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From dave at horsfall.org  Thu Feb  4 02:18:42 2021
From: dave at horsfall.org (Dave Horsfall)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 18:18:42 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [GreenKeys] shockingly basic question - Teletype Model 33 ASR
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.2101311524370.8092@Frances>
References: <CA+H6KCn50T-Q8SNFuBf+WkWSrWbHN6w2EnHrVLhW5S3dMPeouw@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.20.2101311524370.8092@Frances>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2102041759190.70858@aneurin.horsfall.org>

On Sun, 31 Jan 2021, Jim Haynes wrote:

> All the 33s and 35s generate 11 unit code.  1 start bit, 7 data bits, 
> one bit which may be even parity or may be marking, and two stop bits. 
> That's where 110 baud comes from. 100 wpm = 10 chars/sec and each char 
> contains 11 bits.  The reason for two stop bits is the difficulty of 
> making a mechanical selector that is reliable at 100 wpm.

Amazing what you learn on this list :-)  110?  What sort of an odd speed 
is that, when programming a UART?  300/600/1200/2400/etc I can grok, 
but...

OK, so not only is it a mechanical shift register, but it also has 
angular momentum?

So, how did 134.5(?) come into being?  I vaguely hearing a story, but that 
was back in the 70s (and I don't trust WikiThings because anyone can 
edit them, and they do).

-- Dave VK2KFU, who used to pull clocks apart when he was a kid

From dave at horsfall.org  Thu Feb  4 02:46:48 2021
From: dave at horsfall.org (Dave Horsfall)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 18:46:48 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [GreenKeys] Telex reference in a rock song
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2102010837540.70858@aneurin.horsfall.org>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2102010837540.70858@aneurin.horsfall.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2102041831090.70858@aneurin.horsfall.org>

Remembered another one: "I Don't Like Mondays" by the Boomtown Rats (don't 
know how I forgot this one):

     The Telex machine is kept so clean
     And it types to a waiting world

https://www.metrolyrics.com/i-dont-like-mondays-lyrics-boomtown-rats.html

The back-story is that she went postal in her school, and her excuse when 
she was collared was "I don't like Mondays"; sigh...

It was about the 1979 Cleveland Elementary School shooting in San Diego.

-- Dave, who knows far more music trivia than is good for him

From pbirkel at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 03:39:43 2021
From: pbirkel at gmail.com (Paul Birkel)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 03:39:43 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] TM 11-486 & TM 11-680
In-Reply-To: <67b73643-ede5-13d8-1c0e-87b2fda331e6@earthlink.net>
References: <026701d6fa67$f12fb760$d38f2620$@gmail.com>
	<67b73643-ede5-13d8-1c0e-87b2fda331e6@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <036501d6fad1$49d91280$dd8b3780$@gmail.com>

Yes.  You have a transposition in your search string :-<.

-----Original Message-----
From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net
[mailto:greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Duncan Brown
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2021 3:31 PM
To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] TM 11-486 & TM 11-680

Paul,

did you try the Internet Archive? 
https://archive.org/details/US-army-technical-manuals/TM-11-468/mode/2up

Not sure it is what you are looking for. It is a 1954 edition and 
labeled "Substation Maintenance"

Duncan
K2OEQ


On 03-Feb-21 15:05, Paul Birkel wrote:
>
> I found a copy of TM 11-680 here: 
>
https://radionerds.com/index.php/File:TM_11-680_TELETYPEWRITER_CIRCUITS_AND_
EQUIPMENT.pdf 
>
<https://radionerds.com/index.php/File:TM_11-680_TELETYPEWRITER_CIRCUITS_AND
_EQUIPMENT.pdf>
>
> Not luck as yet finding a copy online of TM 11-486 Electrical 
> Communications Systems Engineering (1945), however there is an outline 
> here: http://www.military-info.com/Aphoto/TM%2011_486.htm 
> <http://www.military-info.com/Aphoto/TM%2011_486.htm>
>
> Is TM 11-486 perhaps published under a different number by the USN?? 
> Or hiding somewhere in our collective archives :->?
>
> Thank you.
>
> -----
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to duncanancy at earthlink.net

______________________________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net

>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to pbirkel at gmail.com


From pbirkel at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 03:44:59 2021
From: pbirkel at gmail.com (Paul Birkel)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 03:44:59 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] TM 11-486 & TM 11-680
In-Reply-To: <CAB55hNdh5XQ2oTTitjpU6hc8uidAcbdc-UrQXop-95x=oHiE+Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <026701d6fa67$f12fb760$d38f2620$@gmail.com>
	<CAB55hNdh5XQ2oTTitjpU6hc8uidAcbdc-UrQXop-95x=oHiE+Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <036b01d6fad2$05ac9180$1105b480$@gmail.com>

Nick found it at the same site as the first reference: https://radionerds.com/images/1/1b/TM_11-486.pdf

 

All hail his document recovery skills :->!

 

From: Nick England [mailto:navy.radio at gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2021 4:54 PM
To: Paul Birkel
Cc: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] TM 11-486 & TM 11-680

 

I?ve got a copy of 11-486. It is about 1200 pages and I?d have to rip it apart to run through my scanner / or spend many boring days doing it one page at a time. Best to wait for Google to do it some day!

 

Look here for some other Army/Navy manuals that may be of interest. 

http://www.navy-radio.com/manuals-ttycorp.htm#books

 

 

Cheers

Nick

 

On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 3:08 PM Paul Birkel <pbirkel at gmail.com> wrote:

I found a copy of TM 11-680 here: https://radionerds.com/index.php/File:TM_11-680_TELETYPEWRITER_CIRCUITS_AND_EQUIPMENT.pdf

 

Not luck as yet finding a copy online of TM 11-486 Electrical Communications Systems Engineering (1945), however there is an outline here:  http://www.military-info.com/Aphoto/TM%2011_486.htm

 

Is TM 11-486 perhaps published under a different number by the USN?  Or hiding somewhere in our collective archives :->?

 

Thank you.

 

-----

 

______________________________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net

>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to navy.radio at gmail.com

-- 

Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com

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From alffisher2 at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 08:49:26 2021
From: alffisher2 at gmail.com (Alf Fisher)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 13:49:26 +0000
Subject: [GreenKeys] Wtd: 88mH toroiids
Message-ID: <0127cffc-857a-b64d-33ee-5764c1b7d90f@gmail.com>

Hello GKers,

I'm looking for a couple of 88mH toroids for a project if someone could 
help me out.

Thanks in advance.

73,
Alf
G3WSD


From rdawson16 at hotmail.com  Wed Feb  3 23:19:56 2021
From: rdawson16 at hotmail.com (Randy Dawson)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 04:19:56 +0000
Subject: [GreenKeys] 33s
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1083.1612406282.10339.greenkeys@mailman.qth.net>
References: <mailman.1083.1612406282.10339.greenkeys@mailman.qth.net>
Message-ID: <BYAPR06MB43597A1BF1EE2F20C2CC466CBAB39@BYAPR06MB4359.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>

I know Wayne has helped me for years, and I don't lean on him too much, but I will!

OK so I have 4 33s here, one prints fine, its the one Wayne built, but heck it got shook in transport.
Keys don't agree with that typed.
Other is stuck on carriage, won't return.
I have two more, hundred for both, turned them on and they try to print.
There is another pin feed out there, good buddy picked up after an ebay buy, and thanks.
We have not figured out transport yet.

Now, what to do, or specifically, what not to do?
There are so many tricks, that H-Bar one from Wayne, what else does the collective have, and can we post it here or build a document?
Your secrets will be published.  Could become a book.
Randy
KF7CJW

________________________________
From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net <greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net> on behalf of greenkeys-request at mailman.qth.net <greenkeys-request at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 3, 2021 6:38 PM
To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: GreenKeys Digest, Vol 205, Issue 4

Send GreenKeys mailing list submissions to
        greenkeys at mailman.qth.net

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
        http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
        greenkeys-request at mailman.qth.net

You can reach the person managing the list at
        greenkeys-owner at mailman.qth.net

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of GreenKeys digest..."


When replying, please enter correct subject line, and delete all digest text except the portion related to subject.

Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Help identifying a gear (Joe Clanin)
   2. 35 KSR sighting (Paul Heller)
   3. Re: Help identifying a gear (Joe Clanin)
   4. Re: Help identifying a gear (John, W9DDD)
   5. Re: Help identifying a gear (John, W9DDD)
   6. Re: Help identifying a gear (John Nagle)
   7. More Teletype Specifications on line (Nick England)
   8. Wanted - Teletype Specification 50400S (Nick England)
   9. Re: 2m/70cm repeater net (WA6ZCB at sbcglobal.net)
  10. Re: 2m/70cm repeater net (Jim Walls)
  11. Re: M15 with Frozen Dashpot (Paul Birkel)
  12. M15 Restoration -- Type Bar Basket (Paul Birkel)
  13. Re: M15 Restoration -- Type Bar Basket (E.)
  14. Re: M15 Restoration -- Type Bar Basket (Jim Cooper)
  15. TM 11-486 & TM 11-680 (Paul Birkel)
  16. Re: M15 Restoration -- Type Bar Basket (E.)
  17. Re: TM 11-486 & TM 11-680 (Duncan Brown)
  18. Fwd:  TM 11-486 & TM 11-680 (Duncan Brown)
  19. Re: TM 11-486 & TM 11-680 (Nick England)
  20. Re: TM 11-486 & TM 11-680 (Gerry Block)
  21. Original Documentation (Gerry Block)
  22. Re: Original Documentation (Gerry Block)
  23. Re: Fwd: Re:  2m/70cm repeater net (Dave Horsfall)
  24. Re: RTTY Signal Report Test (William Wuttke)
  25. Re: Fwd: Re: 2m/70cm repeater net (Bruce Gentry)
  26. Re: shockingly basic question - Teletype Model 33 ASR
      (Andy KN4UCL)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 15:41:39 -0600
From: Joe Clanin <macbax1 at gmail.com>
To: Jerry Murphy <gfmurphy at earthlink.net>, greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Help identifying a gear
Message-ID:
        <CAK1UwObZvhUnuoYv8iTWkgRij_xevP8z+w_HQKo6-rnSrtx=Cw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Thanks, Jerry!!

On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 3:33 PM Jerry Murphy <gfmurphy at earthlink.net> wrote:

> 100 WPM gear found on the TD base in a M35 ASR set.
>
>
> http://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/tty/jh/ttyman8/TeletypeManuals/model35/574-223-800TC-Iss3.pdf
>
> See page 6.
>
> Jerry Murphy
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Clanin
> Sent: Feb 2, 2021 1:03 PM
> To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
> Subject: [GreenKeys] Help identifying a gear
>
> Hello all,
>
> I'm sorting through some parts and am having trouble identifying a gear
> marked "197779". I've only been able to turn up price catalog listings
> containing this number on navy-radio.com, but with no information apart
> from the price.
>
> It is 3.8" in diameter, 0.25" thick, and has 120 teeth. Picture attached.
> Can anyone identify it?
>
> -Joe
>
>
>
>
>
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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 22:45:48 +0100
From: Paul Heller <paul0926 at comcast.net>
To: Greenkeys <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: [GreenKeys] 35 KSR sighting
Message-ID: <EC5C1995-F884-40A3-AAB9-0668FB48C514 at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

An old Navy Univac computer that works.

Only slightly on topic because there is a 35 KSR (maybe the main console?) that we don?t get to see in operation and also a Kleinschmidt printer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_d1QbeiOu0

Paul

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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 15:50:07 -0600
From: Joe Clanin <macbax1 at gmail.com>
To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Help identifying a gear
Message-ID:
        <CAK1UwOZEyufjCk+qrSwc=jePWABWjXpM_-op-sJAXbFv4H-qLg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

The gear has been identified as a 100wpm gear for the TD base in a 35 ASR.

Thanks to everyone for the help!

-Joe

On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 3:46 PM Joe Clanin <macbax1 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks, Nick!
>
> I wasn't able to locate that document via "197779" site:navy-radio.com.
> Is there some better way to search that I'm not aware of?
>
> Best,
>
> Joe
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 3:40 PM Nick England <navy.radio at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> M35 parts 1187B - pdf page 109
>>
>>
>> http://www.soemtron.org/downloads/teletypes/old%20files/model35asrbulletin1187bparts.pdf
>>
>>
>> Nick England K4NYW
>> www.navy-radio.com<http://www.navy-radio.com>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 4:05 PM Joe Clanin <macbax1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> I'm sorting through some parts and am having trouble identifying a gear
>>> marked "197779". I've only been able to turn up price catalog listings
>>> containing this number on navy-radio.com, but with no information apart
>>> from the price.
>>>
>>> It is 3.8" in diameter, 0.25" thick, and has 120 teeth. Picture
>>> attached. Can anyone identify it?
>>>
>>> -Joe
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> GreenKeys mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>>
>>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to navy.radio at gmail.com
>>
>>
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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 16:14:14 -0600
From: "John, W9DDD" <w9ddd at tapr.org>
To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Help identifying a gear
Message-ID: <1d9895a1-b429-3511-24dd-c2fed20defb3 at tapr.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

Page 5.  TD base for 35ASR.

http://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/tty/jh/ttyman8/TeletypeManuals/model35/574-223-800TC-Iss3.pdf

John, W9DDD

On 2/2/2021 3:03 PM, Joe Clanin wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I'm sorting through some parts and am having trouble identifying a gear
> marked "197779". I've only been able to turn up price catalog listings
> containing this number on navy-radio.com <http://navy-radio.com>, but
> with no information apart from the price.
>
> It is 3.8" in diameter, 0.25" thick, and has 120 teeth. Picture
> attached. Can anyone identify it?
>
> -Joe
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to w9ddd at tapr.org
>


------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 16:25:18 -0600
From: "John, W9DDD" <w9ddd at tapr.org>
To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Help identifying a gear
Message-ID: <eaf8c19b-46ba-ce32-5ca5-3b9cbd5f42d6 at tapr.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

OK, so I was searching instead of checking my mail, sorry for the
duplicate information.

John, W9DDD

On 2/2/2021 4:14 PM, John, W9DDD wrote:
> Page 5.? TD base for 35ASR.
>
> http://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/tty/jh/ttyman8/TeletypeManuals/model35/574-223-800TC-Iss3.pdf
>
>
> John, W9DDD
>
> On 2/2/2021 3:03 PM, Joe Clanin wrote:
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I'm sorting through some parts and am having trouble identifying a
>> gear marked "197779". I've only been able to turn up price catalog
>> listings containing this number on navy-radio.com
>> <http://navy-radio.com>, but with no information apart from the price.
>>
>> It is 3.8" in diameter, 0.25" thick, and has 120 teeth. Picture
>> attached. Can anyone identify it?
>>
>> -Joe
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> GreenKeys mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>
>>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to w9ddd at tapr.org
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to w9ddd at tapr.org


------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 13:23:49 -0800
From: John Nagle <nagle at animats.com>
To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Help identifying a gear
Message-ID: <496f9870-63f8-eb1a-5c03-0effd781b0ce at animats.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

From: Joe Clanin <macbax1 at gmail.com>
Subject: [GreenKeys] Help identifying a gear

 > I'm sorting through some parts and am having trouble
 > identifying a gear
 > marked "197779".
 > It is 3.8" in diameter, 0.25" thick, and has 120 teeth.
 > Picture attached.
 > Can anyone identify it?

It's nylon, so it's 1950s or later.
It looks like something from the motor power train of a
Teletype Model 33. See:

https://www.vintage-computer.com/images/asr33_4.jpg

I don't really know those models well, but they did
have some nylon gears.

The tickets mentioning speed indicate it's part of
the power train, and you can change gears to get
different speeds or operate on 50Hz.

                        John Nagle


------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 18:18:05 -0500
From: Nick England <navy.radio at gmail.com>
To: Greenkeys <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: [GreenKeys] More Teletype Specifications on line
Message-ID:
        <CAB55hNfGBYAT9GD5OUFz4mgzcJQTcsnai8f3bS2cnDFtBV_guQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Thanks to Jim Cooper W2JC, I have scanned and posted 66 more Specifications
at
http://www.navy-radio.com/tty/ttycorp-specs.htm
Search on W2JC to find the new additions.
Or browse here -
http://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/tty/jc/

Happy reading!
Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com<http://www.navy-radio.com>
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Message: 8
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 18:20:48 -0500
From: Nick England <navy.radio at gmail.com>
To: Greenkeys <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: [GreenKeys] Wanted - Teletype Specification 50400S
Message-ID:
        <CAB55hNeXTZmYbwsLG5nt+1_O_gY9M8v8dYF8GuXiuqv7L3_yig at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

 Wanted - Specification 50400S - instructions for the model 28 LK55
keyboard with photoelectric signal generator for model 28 page printer sets
Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com<http://www.navy-radio.com>
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Message: 9
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 03:24:38 +0000 (UTC)
From: "WA6ZCB at sbcglobal.net" <WA6ZCB at sbcglobal.net>
To: Ralph Mowery <rmowery42 at charter.net>,        GREENKEYS BULLETIN BOARD
        <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] 2m/70cm repeater net
Message-ID: <1306420788.1450530.1612322678280 at mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

 As a repeater owner of a system in SoCal it is interesting to note that per local requirements from TASMA, SCRRBA & 220-TASMA all coordinated repeaters are REQUIRED to run PL on the uplink due to the population of operators.? My system, W6CDW, on Elsinore Peak, runs full PL for both up and down link and still has an occasional issue.? With 3 operational channels on 2, 1.25 & 70 cm it requires 3 control operators to oversee daily operations and they do a fabulous job.? Incidentally, we are also available on echolink and allstar which presents another set of considerations.? Here in Texas there are more repeaters than operators so the "rules" are not quite as stringent.? Please feel free to stop by and shoot the breeze sometime.? 73, Cliff? W5SQI / W6CDW

WWW.SQRADIOCLUB.COM

    On Monday, February 1, 2021, 9:21:25 AM CST, Ralph Mowery <rmowery42 at charter.net> wrote:

 It looks like you are under the rules similar to the ones in the US about 30
to 40 years ago.? For a while in the 1970's we had to license repeaters
under the call of WRnxxx.? There had to be map circles drawn and out to so
many miles the height of the antenna above average ground level calculated.
After a few years the FCC relaxed the rules and now the repeaters are not
regulated very much.? Anyone can just put up one anywhere they want and
stick their own call on it.? Not much difference in just setting up your
home station.?

When I got into RTTY there was a RTTY repeater on our 220 MHz band with
about 20 users.? After a while the users dropped out and the repeater went
off the air.?

Now in the US in many areas the 2 meter and 440 MHz bands are filled up and
there is sort of a priority of giving any pair that opens up to the digital
voice type repeaters.

Ralph ku4pt


-----Original Message-----
From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net
[mailto:greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Dave Horsfall
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2021 2:07 AM
To: Greenkeys
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] 2m/70cm repeater net

On Sun, 31 Jan 2021, Daniel Jones wrote:

> A bunch of us down here in SoCal are experimenting with using 2m/70cm
> repeaters to start a local RTTY net.

Dunno about USA, but here down-under you'd get strung up by the nuts if
you tried that on a voice repeater; for starters it would likely be
illegal.

That said, there was a mixed voice/RTTY repeater in Sydney; I have no idea
whether it's still operating, as RTTY (on other than HF) is all but dead
and I'm no longer in Sydney.

Quickly checks the callbook: nope, VK2RTY is gone...

(Here in Oz, repeaters are separately licenced and are administered by a
club or other organisation; they, along with beacons, have the callsigns
VKnRxx.)

-- Dave VK2KFU

______________________________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net

>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to wa6zcb at sbcglobal.net

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Message: 10
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 20:59:20 -0800
From: Jim Walls <jim at k6ccc.org>
To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] 2m/70cm repeater net
Message-ID: <18af2a4b-8099-bf9c-5518-ae06be31f17c at k6ccc.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

On 02/02/2021 19:24, WA6ZCB at sbcglobal.net wrote:
> As a repeater owner of a system in SoCal it is interesting to note
> that per local requirements from TASMA, SCRRBA & 220-TASMA all
> coordinated repeaters are REQUIRED to run PL on the uplink due to the
> population of operators.

Actually, no, you are NOT required to run PL.? You are required to run
some form of input protection - in other words, not operate carrier
squelch.? That may be PL, DPL, NAC, or some other system that will
prevent an un-intended carrier to key up the repeater. For a RTTY
repeater, that would most likely be Mark tone.? Back when 146.70 (and a
few others) were operating RTTY, you could not key up the repeaters
without Mark tone.? There are several analog repeaters that use
something other than PL or DPL for input protection, and of course none
of the digital repeaters are using PL.

BTW, it's 220 SMA (not 220-TASMA).? I was a 220 SMA co-ordinator for
many years.

--
73
-------------------------------------
Jim Walls - K6CCC
jim at k6ccc.org
Ofc:  818-548-4804
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/k6ccc/
AMSAT Member 32537 - WSWSS Member 395



------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 11:39:46 -0500
From: "Paul Birkel" <pbirkel at gmail.com>
To: "'John Nagle'" <nagle at animats.com>, <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] M15 with Frozen Dashpot
Message-ID: <01fa01d6fa4b$2f627080$8e275180$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

Thank you John.  I'm not "dreaming things" then :->.  I've successfully
followed your directions with the principal variance that I used Kroil
(on-hand) rather than Locktite freeze and release spray, applying several
drops several times around the piston shaft at the outer end.  I chucked a
piece of bar stock firmly into a vise and used that to get a firm purchase
on the flat-lip (not the correct designation, I'm sure) near the end of the
shaft.  And then exerted a steady firm pull until the shaft suddenly slid
along its range.  Then was able to remove and inspect.  Two different places
on the shaft were essentially "varnished".  After cleaning those, inspecting
the bore (clean!), and then checking the leather seal (looks and works fine)
I reassembled and lubricated using 5W-20 synthetic oil (on-hand).  Now
sliding smoothly and acting like a working dashpot :->!

Having set up a local loop I see that I've got another problem or two
somewhere involving the type-basket.  But at least the CAR RET works fine.
And the BELL too!

-----Original Message-----
From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net
[mailto:greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of John Nagle
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2021 4:48 PM
To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: [GreenKeys] M15 with Frozen Dashpot

I've had that happen. Someone used a lubricant
with heavy fractions, and the light components evaporated leaving
the asphalt component behind. This is why I lubricate machines
with 0-20W synthetic motor oil, which has no heavy fractions.

It's reasonably easy to get the entire dashpot out. Then
remove the top, so you can get the piston out. The shaft
is probably stuck where it goes through the top.
That's metal to metal, so you can use Locktite freeze
and release spray. That shrinks the metal and opens
up enough space for its penetrating oil component to get in.

Once you get the piston moving, take it out and clean
the inside and outside of the piston shaft and hole of
whatever gunk was jamming the piston.

While you have the piston out, check the leather
seal on the dashpot. That's the only leather part
in a Teletype. I suggest lubricating that with
Hydrophane leather dressing, which is a silicone oil
used on horse tack. It won't evaporate and dry out.
(Incidentally, if you just paint that stuff on a
cheap leather jacket with a paintbrush,  in
a day or two the oil will disappear, the leather
will become nice and soft, and it will stay that
way for decades. Doesn't change the color, either.)

                        John Nagle
______________________________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net

>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to pbirkel at gmail.com



------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 14:30:17 -0500
From: "Paul Birkel" <pbirkel at gmail.com>
To: <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: [GreenKeys] M15 Restoration -- Type Bar Basket
Message-ID: <025101d6fa63$014195b0$03c4c110$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I'm in the process of bringing an M15 back into service after a long period
of storage.  This is the unit that was previously used by a MARS member that
I've mentioned in previous queries.  The dash pot is now unfrozen and I've
been able to set up a local loop.  I'm using a REC11, so plenty of loop
power; the loop is currently running at 62 mA.  The resulting behavior is
not yet explicable.  As this is the first green keys "recovery" that I've
attempted I can use a bit of guidance!



The general behavior is that the selector unit and vanes appear to be
responding correctly to the keyboard.  FIGS and LTRS shift/unshift the type
bar basket properly (controlled by the bottom vane) and the (FIGS) BELL key
works.  Other keys work, but with sometimes incorrect results (although in
most cases given the lack of printing it's hard to discern beyond obvious
consequences like a SPACE resulting in a CAR RET).  The principal behaviors
are that:



1.     No type bar is ever triggered, nor does the ribbon advance.  The type
bars are all freely moveable.



2.     Key presses appear to advance the type bar basket double; 38
key-presses advance the basket across the full width of the platen and then
further key-presses have no effect.



3.     CAR RET causes either a full return, or a partial return to approx..
the 10-char position (in which case a second CAR RET returns the basket to
full-left).  It's always one or the other.



4.     LINE FEED usually works, but not always.



I notice that the PULL BAR BAIL floats forwards-and-backwards rather than
being held firmly against the front PRINTING BAIL BLADE.  This doesn't seem
right to me.  Perhaps I have a lost or incorrectly positioned spring
somewhere?



The PULL BAR BAIL behavior, what appears to be double-advance per key-press,
and the lack of ever triggering any type bar, seem to me to be the key
anomalous behaviors.



I can imagine that there may be a timing problem (or perhaps related
lubrication problem affecting vane control) resulting in erratic behavior on
a per-key basis (even the space is erratic, sometimes causing a CAR RET),
but I'd like to first get "basic operations" functional before probing
further.



I have not at this point attempted to clean and (re)lubricate any mechanisms
beyond the dash pot.  I absolutely want to avoid major disassembly, unless I
have no other option.  I don't trust myself to get it reassembled and
adjusted properly afterwards!  I do intend to go over all of the lubrication
points once I'm closer to working order.



Do I need remove the type-bar carriage, invert, and check/lubricate
everything there before proceeding further?  I don't think that would affect
the double-advance per key-press behavior, but I have much to learn.



I do note that it seems as of the motor generates a lot of ozone.  But it
sounds completely normal to me; hums right along.



Your thoughts?  I'll keep studying TM11-2215 .



Thank you,

paul





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Message: 13
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 13:54:00 -0600
From: "E." <hanyou at xsmail.com>
To: Mike Douglas via GreenKeys <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] M15 Restoration -- Type Bar Basket
Message-ID: <18EC9CA4-E9D4-472C-9055-FFDBC4B0B21A at xsmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=utf-8


I?ll read this over more in detail after lunch, but the first thing that comes to mind is to oil/lubricate? always oil and lubricate.  Going to cause major problems if you don?t ;o ?

?the second real thing (for now) is to take out the type basket and un-seize the ribbon spool shafts.  Every time the basket advances, interconnected gears advance the ribbon.  If those are frozen, then it?s probably gumming up the works on the rest of the basket and if you?re not careful, you?ll have a bent part or even a stripped gear.

That?d be my two first line of attacks :) .  Good luck ^^ !


> On Feb 3, 2021, at 1:30 pm, Paul Birkel <pbirkel at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I?m in the process of bringing an M15 back into service after a long period of storage.  This is the unit that was previously used by a MARS member that I?ve mentioned in previous queries.  The dash pot is now unfrozen and I?ve been able to set up a local loop.  I?m using a REC11, so plenty of loop power; the loop is currently running at 62 mA.  The resulting behavior is not yet explicable.  As this is the first green keys ?recovery? that I?ve attempted I can use a bit of guidance!
>
> The general behavior is that the selector unit and vanes appear to be responding correctly to the keyboard.  FIGS and LTRS shift/unshift the type bar basket properly (controlled by the bottom vane) and the (FIGS) BELL key works.  Other keys work, but with sometimes incorrect results (although in most cases given the lack of printing it?s hard to discern beyond obvious consequences like a SPACE resulting in a CAR RET).  The principal behaviors are that:
>
> 1.     No type bar is ever triggered, nor does the ribbon advance.  The type bars are all freely moveable.
>
> 2.     Key presses appear to advance the type bar basket double; 38 key-presses advance the basket across the full width of the platen and then further key-presses have no effect.
>
> 3.     CAR RET causes either a full return, or a partial return to approx.. the 10-char position (in which case a second CAR RET returns the basket to full-left).  It?s always one or the other.
>
> 4.     LINE FEED usually works, but not always.
>
> I notice that the PULL BAR BAIL floats forwards-and-backwards rather than being held firmly against the front PRINTING BAIL BLADE.  This doesn?t seem right to me.  Perhaps I have a lost or incorrectly positioned spring somewhere?
>
> The PULL BAR BAIL behavior, what appears to be double-advance per key-press, and the lack of ever triggering any type bar, seem to me to be the key anomalous behaviors.
>
> I can imagine that there may be a timing problem (or perhaps related lubrication problem affecting vane control) resulting in erratic behavior on a per-key basis (even the space is erratic, sometimes causing a CAR RET), but I?d like to first get ?basic operations? functional before probing further.
>
> I have not at this point attempted to clean and (re)lubricate any mechanisms beyond the dash pot.  I absolutely want to avoid major disassembly, unless I have no other option.  I don?t trust myself to get it reassembled and adjusted properly afterwards!  I do intend to go over all of the lubrication points once I?m closer to working order.
>
> Do I need remove the type-bar carriage, invert, and check/lubricate everything there before proceeding further?  I don?t think that would affect the double-advance per key-press behavior, but I have much to learn.
>
> I do note that it seems as of the motor generates a lot of ozone.  But it sounds completely normal to me; hums right along.
>
> Your thoughts?  I?ll keep studying TM11-2215 ?
>
> Thank you,
> paul
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to hanyou at xsmail.com



------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2021 14:58:53 -0500
From: "Jim Cooper" <jim.w2jc at gmail.com>
To: "Paul Birkel" <pbirkel at gmail.com>
Cc: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] M15 Restoration -- Type Bar Basket
Message-ID: <601B007D.17470.5E4FD8F at jim.w2jc.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

On 3 Feb 2021 at 14:30, Paul Birkel wrote:

> The PULL BAR BAIL behavior, what
> appears to be double-advance per
> key-press, and the lack of ever
> triggering any type bar, seem to me
> to be the key anomalous behaviors.

I would say you are on the right track.
The pull bar bail should engage the selected
type bar and throw it against the platen.

> I can imagine that there may be a
> timing problem (or perhaps related
> lubrication problem affecting vane
> control) resulting in erratic
> behavior on a per-key basis (even the
> space is erratic, sometimes causing
> a CAR RET), but I'd like to first get
> "basic operations" functional before
> probing further.

it sounds like your errors are caused by
the vanes not being selected properly.

First suggestion I have is turn the motor OFF.
Have the kbd and sel. mags in the look.
Press a key such as R;
Slowly rotate the motor (using the fan) in the
  proper direction;
the kbd should generate the proper bits as the
motor turns;
the sel. mag. will respond to the mark or space
from the kbd as you turn the motor slowly;
after the 5 bits and the stop bit, the vanes
  should be properly selected for the R
  (I suggest R because, like the RY test, it is
  the code where each vane is opposite to the
  adjacent ones).
if you don't type anotheer character on the kbd,
  then continuing to rotate the motor should cause
  the printing functions to follow through...
if the vanes are properly set, the watch the print
  bail and see if it catches the R typebar;
whatever does not work in that sequence is where
  you need to focus attention first !

do the vanes flip back and forth easily ?
did the selector magnet pull and release properly
  for each code bit?

w2jc





------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 15:05:38 -0500
From: "Paul Birkel" <pbirkel at gmail.com>
To: <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: [GreenKeys] TM 11-486 & TM 11-680
Message-ID: <026701d6fa67$f12fb760$d38f2620$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I found a copy of TM 11-680 here:
https://radionerds.com/index.php/File:TM_11-680_TELETYPEWRITER_CIRCUITS_AND_
EQUIPMENT.pdf



Not luck as yet finding a copy online of TM 11-486 Electrical Communications
Systems Engineering (1945), however there is an outline here:
http://www.military-info.com/Aphoto/TM%2011_486.htm



Is TM 11-486 perhaps published under a different number by the USN?  Or
hiding somewhere in our collective archives :->?



Thank you.



-----



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Message: 16
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 14:12:16 -0600
From: "E." <hanyou at xsmail.com>
To: Mike Douglas via GreenKeys <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] M15 Restoration -- Type Bar Basket
Message-ID: <1231EDE1-55ED-4295-B3B9-A38348EB347C at xsmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=utf-8


Sorry, I misread what you typed - I?m a bad multitasker ;p .  Ignore me ;) ? but do oil ;o .


> On Feb 3, 2021, at 1:30 pm, Paul Birkel <pbirkel at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I?m in the process of bringing an M15 back into service after a long period of storage.  This is the unit that was previously used by a MARS member that I?ve mentioned in previous queries.  The dash pot is now unfrozen and I?ve been able to set up a local loop.  I?m using a REC11, so plenty of loop power; the loop is currently running at 62 mA.  The resulting behavior is not yet explicable.  As this is the first green keys ?recovery? that I?ve attempted I can use a bit of guidance!
>
> The general behavior is that the selector unit and vanes appear to be responding correctly to the keyboard.  FIGS and LTRS shift/unshift the type bar basket properly (controlled by the bottom vane) and the (FIGS) BELL key works.  Other keys work, but with sometimes incorrect results (although in most cases given the lack of printing it?s hard to discern beyond obvious consequences like a SPACE resulting in a CAR RET).  The principal behaviors are that:
>
> 1.     No type bar is ever triggered, nor does the ribbon advance.  The type bars are all freely moveable.
>
>
>
> 2.     Key presses appear to advance the type bar basket double; 38 key-presses advance the basket across the full width of the platen and then further key-presses have no effect.
>
>
> 3.     CAR RET causes either a full return, or a partial return to approx.. the 10-char position (in which case a second CAR RET returns the basket to full-left).  It?s always one or the other.
>
>
> 4.     LINE FEED usually works, but not always.
>
>
> I notice that the PULL BAR BAIL floats forwards-and-backwards rather than being held firmly against the front PRINTING BAIL BLADE.  This doesn?t seem right to me.  Perhaps I have a lost or incorrectly positioned spring somewhere?
>
> The PULL BAR BAIL behavior, what appears to be double-advance per key-press, and the lack of ever triggering any type bar, seem to me to be the key anomalous behaviors.
>
> I can imagine that there may be a timing problem (or perhaps related lubrication problem affecting vane control) resulting in erratic behavior on a per-key basis (even the space is erratic, sometimes causing a CAR RET), but I?d like to first get ?basic operations? functional before probing further.
>
> I have not at this point attempted to clean and (re)lubricate any mechanisms beyond the dash pot.  I absolutely want to avoid major disassembly, unless I have no other option.  I don?t trust myself to get it reassembled and adjusted properly afterwards!  I do intend to go over all of the lubrication points once I?m closer to working order.
>
> Do I need remove the type-bar carriage, invert, and check/lubricate everything there before proceeding further?  I don?t think that would affect the double-advance per key-press behavior, but I have much to learn.
>
> I do note that it seems as of the motor generates a lot of ozone.  But it sounds completely normal to me; hums right along.
>
> Your thoughts?  I?ll keep studying TM11-2215 ?
>
> Thank you,
> paul
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to hanyou at xsmail.com



------------------------------

Message: 17
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 15:30:34 -0500
From: Duncan Brown <duncanancy at earthlink.net>
To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] TM 11-486 & TM 11-680
Message-ID: <67b73643-ede5-13d8-1c0e-87b2fda331e6 at earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

Paul,

did you try the Internet Archive?
https://archive.org/details/US-army-technical-manuals/TM-11-468/mode/2up

Not sure it is what you are looking for. It is a 1954 edition and
labeled "Substation Maintenance"

Duncan
K2OEQ


On 03-Feb-21 15:05, Paul Birkel wrote:
>
> I found a copy of TM 11-680 here:
> https://radionerds.com/index.php/File:TM_11-680_TELETYPEWRITER_CIRCUITS_AND_EQUIPMENT.pdf
> <https://radionerds.com/index.php/File:TM_11-680_TELETYPEWRITER_CIRCUITS_AND_EQUIPMENT.pdf>
>
> Not luck as yet finding a copy online of TM 11-486 Electrical
> Communications Systems Engineering (1945), however there is an outline
> here: http://www.military-info.com/Aphoto/TM%2011_486.htm
> <http://www.military-info.com/Aphoto/TM%2011_486.htm>
>
> Is TM 11-486 perhaps published under a different number by the USN??
> Or hiding somewhere in our collective archives :->?
>
> Thank you.
>
> -----
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to duncanancy at earthlink.net



------------------------------

Message: 18
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 15:34:24 -0500
From: Duncan Brown <duncanancy at earthlink.net>
To: Green Keys <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: [GreenKeys] Fwd:  TM 11-486 & TM 11-680
Message-ID: <28927cf6-0ef8-d55b-eecb-e0089ba9316a at earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed


Paul,

I just took a closer look at that page and there are two pdfs for TM 11-486.
Item 7 is the 1954 edition
Item 13, "TM_11-486.pdf" is the 1945 edition.

Duncan
K2OEQ

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject:         Re: [GreenKeys] TM 11-486 & TM 11-680
Date:    Wed, 3 Feb 2021 15:30:34 -0500
From:    Duncan Brown <duncanancy at earthlink.net>
To:      greenkeys at mailman.qth.net



Paul,

did you try the Internet Archive?
https://archive.org/details/US-army-technical-manuals/TM-11-468/mode/2up

Not sure it is what you are looking for. It is a 1954 edition and
labeled "Substation Maintenance"

Duncan
K2OEQ


On 03-Feb-21 15:05, Paul Birkel wrote:
>
> I found a copy of TM 11-680 here:
> https://radionerds.com/index.php/File:TM_11-680_TELETYPEWRITER_CIRCUITS_AND_EQUIPMENT.pdf
> <https://radionerds.com/index.php/File:TM_11-680_TELETYPEWRITER_CIRCUITS_AND_EQUIPMENT.pdf>
>
> Not luck as yet finding a copy online of TM 11-486 Electrical
> Communications Systems Engineering (1945), however there is an outline
> here: http://www.military-info.com/Aphoto/TM%2011_486.htm
> <http://www.military-info.com/Aphoto/TM%2011_486.htm>
>
> Is TM 11-486 perhaps published under a different number by the USN??
> Or hiding somewhere in our collective archives :->?
>
> Thank you.
>
> -----
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to duncanancy at earthlink.net



------------------------------

Message: 19
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 16:53:32 -0500
From: Nick England <navy.radio at gmail.com>
To: Paul Birkel <pbirkel at gmail.com>
Cc: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] TM 11-486 & TM 11-680
Message-ID:
        <CAB55hNdh5XQ2oTTitjpU6hc8uidAcbdc-UrQXop-95x=oHiE+Q at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I?ve got a copy of 11-486. It is about 1200 pages and I?d have to rip it
apart to run through my scanner / or spend many boring days doing it one
page at a time. Best to wait for Google to do it some day!

Look here for some other Army/Navy manuals that may be of interest.
http://www.navy-radio.com/manuals-ttycorp.htm#books


Cheers
Nick

On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 3:08 PM Paul Birkel <pbirkel at gmail.com> wrote:

> I found a copy of TM 11-680 here:
> https://radionerds.com/index.php/File:TM_11-680_TELETYPEWRITER_CIRCUITS_AND_EQUIPMENT.pdf
>
>
>
> Not luck as yet finding a copy online of TM 11-486 Electrical
> Communications Systems Engineering (1945), however there is an outline
> here:  http://www.military-info.com/Aphoto/TM%2011_486.htm
>
>
>
> Is TM 11-486 perhaps published under a different number by the USN?  Or
> hiding somewhere in our collective archives :->?
>
>
>
> Thank you.
>
>
>
> -----
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to navy.radio at gmail.com

--
Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com<http://www.navy-radio.com>
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Message: 20
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 22:03:59 +0000 (UTC)
From: Gerry Block <gblock at sbcglobal.net>
To: "greenkeys at mailman.qth.net" <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>,     Paul
        Birkel <pbirkel at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] TM 11-486 & TM 11-680
Message-ID: <1184962471.1551408.1612389839826 at mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

 Gents
I have an original TM11-680 1947 edition, in a USAF binder, in excellent condition.In same binder 1959 edition of model 28 Page Printer Set Instructions/Parts TO 31W4-4-5-41C.??

Would anyone like to have this?
GerryAD6MC

    On Wednesday, February 3, 2021, 12:08:19 PM PST, Paul Birkel <pbirkel at gmail.com> wrote:


I found a copy of TM 11-680 here: https://radionerds.com/index.php/File:TM_11-680_TELETYPEWRITER_CIRCUITS_AND_EQUIPMENT.pdf

 ?

Not luck as yet finding a copy online of TM 11-486 Electrical Communications Systems Engineering (1945), however there is an outline here:? http://www.military-info.com/Aphoto/TM%2011_486.htm

 ?

Is TM 11-486 perhaps published under a different number by the USN?? Or hiding somewhere in our collective archives :->?

 ?

Thank you.

 ?

-----

 ?
______________________________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net

>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to gblock at sbcglobal.net
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------------------------------

Message: 21
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 22:11:11 +0000 (UTC)
From: Gerry Block <gblock at sbcglobal.net>
To: GREENKEYS BULLETIN BOARD <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: [GreenKeys] Original Documentation
Message-ID: <7109636.1548764.1612390271913 at mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I have a very large binder (old brown Teletype leatherette type with the ribbon logo) which contains what I believer are a complete set of 15/19 manuals (except for table) plus some original (1953) model 28 manuals and other assorted goodies.

Anyone interested in that?
GerryAD6MC
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------------------------------

Message: 22
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 22:37:40 +0000 (UTC)
From: Gerry Block <gblock at sbcglobal.net>
To: GREENKEYS BULLETIN BOARD <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Original Documentation
Message-ID: <2058504519.1553828.1612391860126 at mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

 Spoken for.

    On Wednesday, February 3, 2021, 2:12:37 PM PST, Gerry Block <gblock at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

 I have a very large binder (old brown Teletype leatherette type with the ribbon logo) which contains what I believer are a complete set of 15/19 manuals (except for table) plus some original (1953) model 28 manuals and other assorted goodies.

Anyone interested in that?
GerryAD6MC
______________________________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net

>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to gblock at sbcglobal.net
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------------------------------

Message: 23
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 11:44:26 +1100 (EST)
From: Dave Horsfall <dave at horsfall.org>
To: Greenkeys <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Fwd: Re:  2m/70cm repeater net
Message-ID:
        <alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2102041129560.70858 at aneurin.horsfall.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"

On Sun, 31 Jan 2021, Bruce Gentry via GreenKeys wrote:

[...]

> I have a complaint about all repeaters on all frequencies today that
> could well be your problem. I think the need and application of tone
> squelch or Channel Guard as we call it here in Syracuse General Electric
> land is over done.??? It severely reduces the chances to use older
> equipment, especially military surplus, and is likely interfering with
> your AFSK??? RTTY. ...

Because of all sorts of increasing QRM, VK (and perhaps ZL) has settled on
a standard CTCSS tone of 91.5 where needed; our emergency support service
(WICEN) uses 123 for historical reasons (and it's just as well that we use
50Hz and not 60Hz!).

Boards are available from the usual sources; they can be strapped for
any CTCSS tone, and the level is easily adjustable.  I guess that would
upset the purists though, but that's progress for you...

-- Dave VK2KFU

------------------------------

Message: 24
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 16:58:47 -0800
From: William Wuttke <wcwuttke at att.net>
To: Greenkeys <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] RTTY Signal Report Test
Message-ID: <802E79C9-61DA-4B4F-A8F8-1966148A972B at att.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=utf-8

Update: Thanks to all for the testing help.

In order to get my software to parse properly, you should use a CRLF before and after
the QSA query line:

?<CRLF>KE3BK KE3BK DE YOURCALL YOURCALL QSA?<CRLF>?


Thanks & 73,
Bill
KE3BK

> On Feb 1, 2021, at 4:55 PM, William Wuttke <wcwuttke at att.net> wrote:
>
> I?ve been fiddling around with some software and have a function ready for some
> real-world testing. If you get a chance, send the following (your callsign  in YOURCALL)
> on 14.083875 MHz mark freq daytime until 2400Z or 7.083875 MHz after 2400Z:
>
> ?KE3BK KE3BK DE YOURCALL YOURCALL QSA??
>
> If I decode everything properly, you will receive a signal report.
>
> 73,
> Bill
> KE3BK



------------------------------

Message: 25
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 20:37:34 -0500
From: Bruce Gentry <ka2ivy at verizon.net>
To: "GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net" <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Fwd: Re: 2m/70cm repeater net
Message-ID: <8ce26277-b3ad-5286-7448-182c5775835f at verizon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"

My point is- when a voice net is going to be held, could the net control
turn off the Channel Guard for the hour or so the net will last if there
is no interference experienced?  I fully understand local conditions may
preclude this, but here in Central New York it would usually be fine.
Hacking up legacy and military surplus equipment is something many want
to avoid.  Some of us would like to get our fifty year old 2 meter
handheld or shoulder bag rigs off the shelf once in a while for
something other than simplex.  As for RTTY repeaters, why not call them
up by hitting "LTRS-LTRS- CR" and whatever appropriate ID is needed at
the beginning of each transmission instead of Channel Guard tone?  Other
countries may have different regulations.

       Bruce Gentry, KA2IVY









On 2/3/21 19:44, Dave Horsfall wrote:
> On Sun, 31 Jan 2021, Bruce Gentry via GreenKeys wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> I have a complaint about all repeaters on all frequencies today that
>> could well be your problem. I think the need and application of tone
>> squelch or Channel Guard as we call it here in Syracuse General
>> Electric land is over done.??? It severely reduces the chances to use
>> older equipment, especially military surplus, and is likely
>> interfering with your AFSK??? RTTY. ...
>
> Because of all sorts of increasing QRM, VK (and perhaps ZL) has
> settled on a standard CTCSS tone of 91.5 where needed; our emergency
> support service (WICEN) uses 123 for historical reasons (and it's just
> as well that we use 50Hz and not 60Hz!).
>
> Boards are available from the usual sources; they can be strapped for
> any CTCSS tone, and the level is easily adjustable.  I guess that would
> upset the purists though, but that's progress for you...
>
> -- Dave VK2KFU
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to ka2ivy at verizon.net

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------------------------------

Message: 26
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 21:36:33 -0500
From: Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com>
To: Mike Douglas <deramp5113 at yahoo.com>
Cc: Greenkeys <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>, Jim Haynes
        <jhhaynes at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] shockingly basic question - Teletype Model 33
        ASR
Message-ID:
        <CA+H6KCmq1UJ0MWifD6MVPQ25CFcN2S1o4z-zAVXfQpmiLbfdFA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I think I am still missing a trick or two here...I tried every combination
of 8 and 7 even/odd/none/mark/space and I get no printing at all with 8
bit, but moderately bad spelling errors with 7.  See attachment below...
presumably this means I have the non-parity keyboard?

thanks in advance for your thoughts!
Andy

On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 8:18 PM Mike Douglas <deramp5113 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> If you select 8 bit with mark parity on your terminal server, you?ll
> probably get the 8N2 timing the Teletype requires (the mark parity bit
> serves as the first stop bit).
>
> Mike
>
> On Jan 31, 2021, at 7:11 PM, Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ?
> Thanks guys for the responses - a lot of great info for me to digest!
>
> My terminal server (Equinox ELS-16) allows me to define character size as
> 7 or 8 bits, and to set parity as NONE, ODD, EVEN, MARK or SPACE.
>
> I don't seem to have the ability to specifically state the number of stop
> bits, however.
>
> Anyway.. I'm going to crack my Teletype open and confirm exactly what's
> going on.
> cheers!
> Andy
>
> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 5:43 PM Keith Lueck <kwlueck at swbell.net> wrote:
>
>> Jim & Wayne are spot-on, of course.  I learned the hard way that you best
>> include the parity bit - even though the 33 doesn't give a whit about
>> parity...
>> My machine was occasionally producing errors when I was feeding it 7 N
>> 2.  Wayne Durkee set me straight, and, viola, when I sent it 7 M 2,
>> everything was 100% ducky.
>>
>> On Sunday, January 31, 2021, 03:32:30 PM CST, Jim Haynes <
>> jhhaynes at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> All the 33s and 35s generate 11 unit code.  1 start bit, 7 data bits, one
>> bit which may be even parity or may be marking, and two stop bits.  That's
>> where 110 baud comes from. 100 wpm = 10 chars/sec and each char contains
>> 11 bits.  The reason for two stop bits is the difficulty of making a
>> mechanical selector that is reliable at 100 wpm.
>>
>>     ---
>>
>>     "Ya can argue all ya wanna, but it's dif'rent than it was."
>>     "No it ain't! No it ain't!  But ya gotta know the territory."
>>         Meredith Willson, The Music Man
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> GreenKeys mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>
>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to kwlueck at swbell.net
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>
> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>
> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>
> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to deramp5113 at yahoo.com
>
>
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------------------------------

_______________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys


End of GreenKeys Digest, Vol 205, Issue 4
*****************************************
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From deramp5113 at yahoo.com  Thu Feb  4 10:42:16 2021
From: deramp5113 at yahoo.com (Mike Douglas)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 15:42:16 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [GreenKeys] shockingly basic question - Teletype Model 33 ASR
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2102041759190.70858@aneurin.horsfall.org>
References: <CA+H6KCn50T-Q8SNFuBf+WkWSrWbHN6w2EnHrVLhW5S3dMPeouw@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.20.2101311524370.8092@Frances>
	<alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2102041759190.70858@aneurin.horsfall.org>
Message-ID: <129512427.2499979.1612453336936@mail.yahoo.com>

 The selector itself has no problem time-wise with mechanically latching each bit in real time as the bits come in at 110 baud. After the 8th bit is clicked into the selector, then the printer mechanism needs time to rotate, raise, and impact the printer head, and also during this stroke, the function bar and pawl mechanism matches and performs control character functions (e.g., CR, LF, BEL, Reader on, Reader off, etc.). The two stop bits provide the time for these actions to occur after bit 8, along with some time to re-establish an idle state prior to the start bit of the next character.

Mike

     On Thursday, February 4, 2021, 01:19:00 AM CST, Dave Horsfall <dave at horsfall.org> wrote:  
 
 On Sun, 31 Jan 2021, Jim Haynes wrote:

> All the 33s and 35s generate 11 unit code.? 1 start bit, 7 data bits, 
> one bit which may be even parity or may be marking, and two stop bits. 
> That's where 110 baud comes from. 100 wpm = 10 chars/sec and each char 
> contains 11 bits.? The reason for two stop bits is the difficulty of 
> making a mechanical selector that is reliable at 100 wpm.

Amazing what you learn on this list :-)? 110?? What sort of an odd speed 
is that, when programming a UART?? 300/600/1200/2400/etc I can grok, 
but...

OK, so not only is it a mechanical shift register, but it also has 
angular momentum?

So, how did 134.5(?) come into being?? I vaguely hearing a story, but that 
was back in the 70s (and I don't trust WikiThings because anyone can 
edit them, and they do).

-- Dave VK2KFU, who used to pull clocks apart when he was a kid
______________________________________________________________
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Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net

>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html

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From gblock at sbcglobal.net  Thu Feb  4 13:31:25 2021
From: gblock at sbcglobal.net (Gerry Block)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 18:31:25 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [GreenKeys] Wtd: 88mH toroiids
In-Reply-To: <0127cffc-857a-b64d-33ee-5764c1b7d90f@gmail.com>
References: <0127cffc-857a-b64d-33ee-5764c1b7d90f@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1498211163.1580609.1612463485692@mail.yahoo.com>

 Alf,
? I have two Charles Industries 88mh torroids.? These are electrically identical to the WECO torroids but they are potted, with wire leads.? These torroids are NOS, 2009 date code.??? (www.charlesindustries.com)
? Let me know if these are what you want.
GerryAD6MC


    On Thursday, February 4, 2021, 5:50:36 AM PST, Alf Fisher <alffisher2 at gmail.com> wrote:  
 
 Hello GKers,

I'm looking for a couple of 88mH toroids for a project if someone could 
help me out.

Thanks in advance.

73,
Alf
G3WSD

______________________________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net

>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html

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From teletypeparts at comcast.net  Thu Feb  4 13:42:35 2021
From: teletypeparts at comcast.net (WAYNE)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 13:42:35 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [GreenKeys] shockingly basic question - Teletype Model 33 ASR
In-Reply-To: <129512427.2499979.1612453336936@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CA+H6KCn50T-Q8SNFuBf+WkWSrWbHN6w2EnHrVLhW5S3dMPeouw@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.20.2101311524370.8092@Frances>
	<alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2102041759190.70858@aneurin.horsfall.org>
	<129512427.2499979.1612453336936@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1281698887.40268.1612464155941@connect.xfinity.com>

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From kn4ucl at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 15:29:48 2021
From: kn4ucl at gmail.com (Andy KN4UCL)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 15:29:48 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] shockingly basic question - Teletype Model 33 ASR
In-Reply-To: <C2BFE42A-19EA-46EF-AFF2-2474709B1C72@yahoo.com>
References: <B89CF151-3196-4D55-A45D-B426569310B6@gmail.com>
	<C2BFE42A-19EA-46EF-AFF2-2474709B1C72@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CA+H6KCmFophaHtvA2Y+ChiZLmUFn605M2=b2fbX_X3Xs7AdReg@mail.gmail.com>

OK well this is all very embarrassing. I have two almost identical
teletypes (both non-parity) .... the other one works great connected to my
Terminal Server so thought I'd better  swap the RS232 Adapters, port and
cable.. and hey presto - my "not working due to parity errors" Teletype
started running fine!

I then swapped back to the original Adapter, cables and port... expecting
things to NOT work... but of course, everything ran fine.

I've tried jiggling the cables (I was hopeful maybe a weird cable problem
could be the issue) but I am struggling to see how a wiring problem would
look like a legit parity problem.

Anyway! All good for now.. but I am curious what would cause these
parity-like symptoms. I am going to replace the cables anyway, and probably
grab another converter just in case.

cheers!
Andy

On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 11:05 PM Mike Douglas <deramp5113 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Since you are concerned about the parity of your keyboard while testing
> the TTY printing function, I assume your terminal server is in a mode where
> it echos characters that you type on the TTY keyboard back out to the TTY
> printer and you are testing your printer by typing on the TTY keyboard?
>
> If this is what you?re doing and you have a non-parity keyboard, then set
> the serial port to 7 data bits plus mark parity (non parity keyboards set
> the 8th bit to one). This should ensure the server accepts the typed
> characters. If you type one character at a time with a short pause between
> each character, then each character should echo properly to the TTY
> printer. The pause between each character will be more than the two stop
> bits the printer requires (and the printer ignores the 8th bit).
>
> If, however, you have a telnet session open and are sending data from a
> remote device to the TTY printer and are not using the TTY keyboard to
> generate test data, then set the serial port to 8 data bits plus mark
> parity. This will appear as 8 data bits and 2 stop bits to the printer (as
> it requires) and the printer can then keep up with a steady stream of data.
>
> If you are getting some garbage characters with either of these methods
> but everything prints correctly in local mode, you made need to adjust the
> rangefinder a bit.
>
> Mike
>
> On Feb 3, 2021, at 9:22 PM, Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ?
> My Teletype has a Deramp converter which goes direct into an Equinox
> ELS-16 terminal server.  When I start I get a session with the terminal
> server and can interact directly with the server ... or telnet onwards
> elsewhere.
>
> On Feb 3, 2021, at 10:00 PM, Mike Douglas <deramp5113 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> ?
> ?I guess I?m confused as to your test setup then. What is sending data to
> your Teletype? Is it coming from an external source other than the
> Teletype, or are you testing by somehow looping keyboard input from your
> TTY back out to the TTY printer?
>
> Mike
>
> On Feb 3, 2021, at 8:36 PM, Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ?
> I think I am still missing a trick or two here...I tried every combination
> of 8 and 7 even/odd/none/mark/space and I get no printing at all with 8
> bit, but moderately bad spelling errors with 7.  See attachment below...
> presumably this means I have the non-parity keyboard?
>
> thanks in advance for your thoughts!
> Andy
>
> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 8:18 PM Mike Douglas <deramp5113 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> If you select 8 bit with mark parity on your terminal server, you?ll
>> probably get the 8N2 timing the Teletype requires (the mark parity bit
>> serves as the first stop bit).
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> On Jan 31, 2021, at 7:11 PM, Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>> Thanks guys for the responses - a lot of great info for me to digest!
>>
>> My terminal server (Equinox ELS-16) allows me to define character size as
>> 7 or 8 bits, and to set parity as NONE, ODD, EVEN, MARK or SPACE.
>>
>> I don't seem to have the ability to specifically state the number of stop
>> bits, however.
>>
>> Anyway.. I'm going to crack my Teletype open and confirm exactly what's
>> going on.
>> cheers!
>> Andy
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 5:43 PM Keith Lueck <kwlueck at swbell.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Jim & Wayne are spot-on, of course.  I learned the hard way that you
>>> best include the parity bit - even though the 33 doesn't give a whit about
>>> parity...
>>> My machine was occasionally producing errors when I was feeding it 7 N
>>> 2.  Wayne Durkee set me straight, and, viola, when I sent it 7 M 2,
>>> everything was 100% ducky.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, January 31, 2021, 03:32:30 PM CST, Jim Haynes <
>>> jhhaynes at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> All the 33s and 35s generate 11 unit code.  1 start bit, 7 data bits, one
>>> bit which may be even parity or may be marking, and two stop bits.
>>> That's
>>> where 110 baud comes from. 100 wpm = 10 chars/sec and each char contains
>>> 11 bits.  The reason for two stop bits is the difficulty of making a
>>> mechanical selector that is reliable at 100 wpm.
>>>
>>>     ---
>>>
>>>     "Ya can argue all ya wanna, but it's dif'rent than it was."
>>>     "No it ain't! No it ain't!  But ya gotta know the territory."
>>>         Meredith Willson, The Music Man
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> GreenKeys mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>>
>>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to kwlueck at swbell.net
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> GreenKeys mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>
>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>
>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>
>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>
>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to deramp5113 at yahoo.com
>>
>> <non parity keyboard.png>
>
>
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From deramp5113 at yahoo.com  Thu Feb  4 17:05:46 2021
From: deramp5113 at yahoo.com (Mike Douglas)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 22:05:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [GreenKeys] shockingly basic question - Teletype Model 33 ASR
In-Reply-To: <CA+H6KCmFophaHtvA2Y+ChiZLmUFn605M2=b2fbX_X3Xs7AdReg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B89CF151-3196-4D55-A45D-B426569310B6@gmail.com>
	<C2BFE42A-19EA-46EF-AFF2-2474709B1C72@yahoo.com>
	<CA+H6KCmFophaHtvA2Y+ChiZLmUFn605M2=b2fbX_X3Xs7AdReg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <160392759.2681825.1612476346338@mail.yahoo.com>

 Progress is progress :)

Mike
     On Thursday, February 4, 2021, 02:30:02 PM CST, Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:  
 
 OK well this is all very embarrassing. I have two almost identical teletypes (both non-parity) .... the other one works great connected to my Terminal Server so thought I'd better? swap the RS232 Adapters, port and cable.. and hey presto - my "not working due to parity errors" Teletype started running fine! 

I then swapped back to the original Adapter, cables and port... expecting things to NOT work... but of course, everything ran fine.

I've tried jiggling the cables (I was hopeful maybe a weird cable problem could be the issue) but I am struggling to see how a wiring problem would look like a legit parity problem.
Anyway! All good for now.. but I am curious what would cause these parity-like symptoms. I am going to replace the cables anyway, and probably grab another converter just in case.

cheers!Andy

On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 11:05 PM Mike Douglas <deramp5113 at yahoo.com> wrote:

Since you are concerned about the parity of your keyboard while testing the TTY printing function, I assume your terminal server is in a mode where it echos characters that you type on the TTY keyboard back out to the TTY printer and you are testing your printer by typing on the TTY keyboard?
If this is what you?re doing and you have a non-parity keyboard, then set the serial port to 7 data bits plus mark parity (non parity keyboards set the 8th bit to one). This should ensure the server accepts the typed characters. If you type one character at a time with a short pause between each character, then each character should echo properly to the TTY printer. The pause between each character will be more than the two stop bits the printer requires (and the printer ignores the 8th bit).?
If, however, you have a telnet session open and are sending data from a remote device to the TTY printer and are not using the TTY keyboard to generate test data, then set the serial port to 8 data bits plus mark parity. This will appear as 8 data bits and 2 stop bits to the printer (as it requires) and the printer can then keep up with a steady stream of data.
If you are getting some garbage characters with either of these methods but everything prints correctly in local mode, you made need to adjust the rangefinder a bit.
Mike

On Feb 3, 2021, at 9:22 PM, Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:



?My Teletype has a Deramp converter which goes direct into an Equinox ELS-16 terminal server.? When I start I get a session with the terminal server and can interact directly with the server ... or telnet onwards elsewhere.

On Feb 3, 2021, at 10:00 PM, Mike Douglas <deramp5113 at yahoo.com> wrote:



??I guess I?m confused as to your test setup then. What is sending data to your Teletype? Is it coming from an external source other than the Teletype, or are you testing by somehow looping keyboard input from your TTY back out to the TTY printer?
Mike

On Feb 3, 2021, at 8:36 PM, Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:



?I think I am still missing a trick or two here...I tried every combination of 8 and 7 even/odd/none/mark/space and I get no printing at all with 8 bit, but moderately bad spelling errors with 7.? See attachment below... presumably this means I have the non-parity keyboard?
thanks in advance for your thoughts!Andy

On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 8:18 PM Mike Douglas <deramp5113 at yahoo.com> wrote:

If you select 8 bit with mark parity on your terminal server, you?ll probably get the 8N2 timing the Teletype requires (the mark parity bit serves as the first stop bit).
Mike

On Jan 31, 2021, at 7:11 PM, Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:



?Thanks guys for the responses - a lot of great info for me to digest!? 

My terminal server (Equinox ELS-16) allows me to define character size as 7 or 8 bits, and to set parity as NONE, ODD, EVEN, MARK or SPACE. 

I don't seem to have the ability to specifically state the number of stop bits, however.

Anyway.. I'm going to crack my Teletype open and confirm exactly what's going on.cheers!Andy 

On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 5:43 PM Keith Lueck <kwlueck at swbell.net> wrote:

 Jim & Wayne are spot-on, of course.? I learned the hard way that you best include the parity bit - even though the 33 doesn't give a whit about parity...??My machine was occasionally producing errors when I was feeding it 7 N 2.? Wayne Durkee set me straight, and, viola, when I sent it 7 M 2, everything was 100% ducky.??
    On Sunday, January 31, 2021, 03:32:30 PM CST, Jim Haynes <jhhaynes at earthlink.net> wrote:  
 
 All the 33s and 35s generate 11 unit code.? 1 start bit, 7 data bits, one
bit which may be even parity or may be marking, and two stop bits.? That's
where 110 baud comes from. 100 wpm = 10 chars/sec and each char contains 
11 bits.? The reason for two stop bits is the difficulty of making a
mechanical selector that is reliable at 100 wpm.

 ??? ---

 ??? "Ya can argue all ya wanna, but it's dif'rent than it was."
 ??? "No it ain't! No it ain't!? But ya gotta know the territory."
 ??? ??? Meredith Willson, The Music Man
______________________________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net

>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to kwlueck at swbell.net
  
______________________________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net




Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch






2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/






1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html






Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html




This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to deramp5113 at yahoo.com

<non parity keyboard.png>



  
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From shumaker at att.net  Thu Feb  4 23:18:51 2021
From: shumaker at att.net (s shumaker)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 20:18:51 -0800
Subject: [GreenKeys] UDS EIA module for ASR33
References: <5e90b6b6-a4b9-a964-781e-ff1271a84cd3.ref@att.net>
Message-ID: <5e90b6b6-a4b9-a964-781e-ff1271a84cd3@att.net>

recently acquired an ASR33 with an old EIA (RS-232) Interface convertor 
module. ? It came with a two page spec and cable pinout sheet that is 
more hole than it is paper. Manufacturer is United Data Services (UDS) 
in Phoenix.? Model seems to be 312 A 0568? (might be 0563)? Google 
hasn't been much help.? Herb Johnson of Retrocomputing.com has 312 A 
0567 which appears similar but is not the same thing.

Anyone familiar with this unit who could share docs??? (willing to scan 
and share if desired)

Steve
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From dave at horsfall.org  Fri Feb  5 01:06:50 2021
From: dave at horsfall.org (Dave Horsfall)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2021 17:06:50 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [GreenKeys] shockingly basic question - Teletype Model 33 ASR
In-Reply-To: <1281698887.40268.1612464155941@connect.xfinity.com>
References: <CA+H6KCn50T-Q8SNFuBf+WkWSrWbHN6w2EnHrVLhW5S3dMPeouw@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.20.2101311524370.8092@Frances>
	<alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2102041759190.70858@aneurin.horsfall.org>
	<129512427.2499979.1612453336936@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1281698887.40268.1612464155941@connect.xfinity.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2102051702230.70858@aneurin.horsfall.org>

On Thu, 4 Feb 2021, WAYNE wrote:

> Mike is correct.? A 33 needs time for all its functions.? On a CR LF its 
> important that they be in that order and even then the carriage has just 
> barely enuf time to return from a full line.? If you want to be sure use 
> CR, LF, Delete or Rubout as well and 2 stop bits from the computer.

I've been told that CR CR LF is best, as it has no side-effects.

-- Dave, still pondering over his iPad RTTY program

From dave at horsfall.org  Fri Feb  5 01:26:24 2021
From: dave at horsfall.org (Dave Horsfall)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2021 17:26:24 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [GreenKeys] TTY emulator for iPad
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2011070816340.6603@aneurin.horsfall.org>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2011070816340.6603@aneurin.horsfall.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2102051719180.70858@aneurin.horsfall.org>

On Sat, 7 Nov 2020, Dave Horsfall wrote:

> I'm thinking of writing a TTY emulator for my iPad (and it's probably 
> already been done), but what things should I consider?  I know about 
> USOS, auto LF after CR, suppress multiple LFs (all optional in a stunt 
> box), different alphabets (inc. WX) etc, but what have I forgotten?
>
> I'll probably never finish it, but it ought to be fun.

Progress report: still pondering, I'm afraid (too many other projects on 
the boiler), but thanks for all of your suggestions etc.

And yes, Jeff, it will have a "WAYW" key :-)  Probably right next to the 
WRU key...

-- Dave

From pbirkel at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 08:09:27 2021
From: pbirkel at gmail.com (Paul Birkel)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2021 08:09:27 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] M15 Restoration -- Type Bar Basket
Message-ID: <061201d6fbc0$225e0d10$671a2730$@gmail.com>

Status Update:  I've been earning my wings, but it's not been easy!  After
several repairs I've reached the point that the type bar basket appears to
be operating properly in all respects (and the imprinting looks very good
after a careful cleaning of the individual type bars).  Driving the type
basket properly is another matter, starting with a "rapid unplanned
disassembly" (RUD event) as the cotton cord on the CAR RET mechanism failed,
ejecting one end for parts unknown :-<.  It's somewhere close by (I heard it
land) but it will be many months before I'm likely to uncover its landing
site.  Temporary replacement cord now in place.

 

The CAR RET partial return to the ~10-char position was being caused by a
cracked lever.  Now with a so-so fix.

 

CAR RET initiates erratically, and possibly related to the consistent
behavior that actuating _all_ keys (including FIGS, LTRS, and BELL!) result
in double-move of the type basket, the first without any printing
(equivalent to the BLANK key) and then the second with the correct
character, when applicable.  This seems like a really odd failure mode to be
caused in the base mechanism.  I remain suspicious of the keyboard emitting
two cycles rather than just one per keypress.  Or perhaps the selector is
cycling twice for reasons of its own.  Lots of hypotheses ..

 

Anyone encountered this behavior on an M15, M19, or perhaps even elsewhere?

 

From: Paul Birkel [mailto:pbirkel at gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2021 2:30 PM
To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: M15 Restoration -- Type Bar Basket

 

I'm in the process of bringing an M15 back into service after a long period
of storage.  This is the unit that was previously used by a MARS member that
I've mentioned in previous queries.  The dash pot is now unfrozen and I've
been able to set up a local loop.  I'm using a REC11, so plenty of loop
power; the loop is currently running at 62 mA.  The resulting behavior is
not yet explicable.  As this is the first green keys "recovery" that I've
attempted I can use a bit of guidance!

 

The general behavior is that the selector unit and vanes appear to be
responding correctly to the keyboard.  FIGS and LTRS shift/unshift the type
bar basket properly (controlled by the bottom vane) and the (FIGS) BELL key
works.  Other keys work, but with sometimes incorrect results (although in
most cases given the lack of printing it's hard to discern beyond obvious
consequences like a SPACE resulting in a CAR RET).  The principal behaviors
are that:

 

1.     No type bar is ever triggered, nor does the ribbon advance.  The type
bars are all freely moveable.

 

2.     Key presses appear to advance the type bar basket double; 38
key-presses advance the basket across the full width of the platen and then
further key-presses have no effect.

 

3.     CAR RET causes either a full return, or a partial return to approx..
the 10-char position (in which case a second CAR RET returns the basket to
full-left).  It's always one or the other.

 

4.     LINE FEED usually works, but not always.

 

I notice that the PULL BAR BAIL floats forwards-and-backwards rather than
being held firmly against the front PRINTING BAIL BLADE.  This doesn't seem
right to me.  Perhaps I have a lost or incorrectly positioned spring
somewhere?

 

The PULL BAR BAIL behavior, what appears to be double-advance per key-press,
and the lack of ever triggering any type bar, seem to me to be the key
anomalous behaviors.

 

I can imagine that there may be a timing problem (or perhaps related
lubrication problem affecting vane control) resulting in erratic behavior on
a per-key basis (even the space is erratic, sometimes causing a CAR RET),
but I'd like to first get "basic operations" functional before probing
further.

 

I have not at this point attempted to clean and (re)lubricate any mechanisms
beyond the dash pot.  I absolutely want to avoid major disassembly, unless I
have no other option.  I don't trust myself to get it reassembled and
adjusted properly afterwards!  I do intend to go over all of the lubrication
points once I'm closer to working order.

 

Do I need remove the type-bar carriage, invert, and check/lubricate
everything there before proceeding further?  I don't think that would affect
the double-advance per key-press behavior, but I have much to learn.

 

I do note that it seems as of the motor generates a lot of ozone.  But it
sounds completely normal to me; hums right along.

 

Your thoughts?  I'll keep studying TM11-2215 .

 

Thank you,

paul

 

 

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From teletypeparts at comcast.net  Fri Feb  5 12:50:59 2021
From: teletypeparts at comcast.net (WAYNE)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2021 12:50:59 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [GreenKeys] shockingly basic question - Teletype Model 33 ASR
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2102051702230.70858@aneurin.horsfall.org>
References: <CA+H6KCn50T-Q8SNFuBf+WkWSrWbHN6w2EnHrVLhW5S3dMPeouw@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.20.2101311524370.8092@Frances>
	<alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2102041759190.70858@aneurin.horsfall.org>
	<129512427.2499979.1612453336936@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1281698887.40268.1612464155941@connect.xfinity.com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2102051702230.70858@aneurin.horsfall.org>
Message-ID: <1061156865.152125.1612547460000@connect.xfinity.com>

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From vk2bea at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 13:35:34 2021
From: vk2bea at gmail.com (Michael Katzmann)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2021 13:35:34 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] ASR33 metal coating
Message-ID: <CAMyt5OQ+keztiYfxpqtTO=wRRZn+zkE5b01u3QUxtMbWCBTbng@mail.gmail.com>

I'm cleaning up my ASR33. The bottom case (the base that the typing
unit sits on) has some rusty spots that I removed. Now I'm down to the
base metal I want to protect it from future corrosion. The patina on
the rest of the base is a dull grey (the sanded down spots are shiny
metal). Is this original coating a zinc galvanizing? Should I use cold
galvanizing spray or just a clear coat spray to protect it?

Michael

From deramp5113 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  5 14:03:46 2021
From: deramp5113 at yahoo.com (Mike Douglas)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2021 19:03:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [GreenKeys] shockingly basic question - Teletype Model 33 ASR
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2102051702230.70858@aneurin.horsfall.org>
References: <CA+H6KCn50T-Q8SNFuBf+WkWSrWbHN6w2EnHrVLhW5S3dMPeouw@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.20.2101311524370.8092@Frances>
	<alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2102041759190.70858@aneurin.horsfall.org>
	<129512427.2499979.1612453336936@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1281698887.40268.1612464155941@connect.xfinity.com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2102051702230.70858@aneurin.horsfall.org>
Message-ID: <1546613264.3004789.1612551826681@mail.yahoo.com>

 Early microcomputers, which relied heavily on the Model 33 as an operator's console, included the option for following CR with one or more null characters (ASCII zero) to give time for the print head to reach the left margin. Typically one null was plenty. A null prints nothing and engages no function bars.

Unrelated to TTY operation, the extra null also ended up on the paper tape when saving a program. When subsequently loading that tape, the null gave the BASIC interpreter an extra 100ms to process the line just received before more data came in (i.e., the NULL was lost but didnt matter).

Mike

     On Friday, February 5, 2021, 12:07:15 AM CST, Dave Horsfall <dave at horsfall.org> wrote:  
 
 On Thu, 4 Feb 2021, WAYNE wrote:

> Mike is correct.? A 33 needs time for all its functions.? On a CR LF its 
> important that they be in that order and even then the carriage has just 
> barely enuf time to return from a full line.? If you want to be sure use 
> CR, LF, Delete or Rubout as well and 2 stop bits from the computer.

I've been told that CR CR LF is best, as it has no side-effects.

-- Dave, still pondering over his iPad RTTY program______________________________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net

>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html

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From navy.radio at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 14:20:49 2021
From: navy.radio at gmail.com (Nick England)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2021 14:20:49 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] HAL RTTY-1 cross-LED indicator schematic needed
Message-ID: <CAB55hNfF37QX4nn65FjSosggKObJwS0y+c2tiWPuxUfU6kwH1w@mail.gmail.com>

The schematic that Duncan got from HAL was mis-scanned after the first page
http://www.navy-radio.com/rtty/hal/rtty-1/manual/

Can anyone help with a re-scan or a loan for me to scan?

Thanks
Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com
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From dave at horsfall.org  Fri Feb  5 21:03:13 2021
From: dave at horsfall.org (Dave Horsfall)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2021 13:03:13 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [GreenKeys] shockingly basic question - Teletype Model 33 ASR
In-Reply-To: <1061156865.152125.1612547460000@connect.xfinity.com>
References: <CA+H6KCn50T-Q8SNFuBf+WkWSrWbHN6w2EnHrVLhW5S3dMPeouw@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.20.2101311524370.8092@Frances>
	<alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2102041759190.70858@aneurin.horsfall.org>
	<129512427.2499979.1612453336936@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1281698887.40268.1612464155941@connect.xfinity.com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2102051702230.70858@aneurin.horsfall.org>
	<1061156865.152125.1612547460000@connect.xfinity.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2102061259460.70858@aneurin.horsfall.org>

On Fri, 5 Feb 2021, WAYNE wrote:

[ On CR CR LF ]

> That hadnt occurred to me.? The Delete or Rubout is a holdover from CR 
> LF LTRS on 32 ASR's from years ago and now in RTTY.?? ? Actually the 
> return speed of a 32 and a 33 are the same. ? You guys keep me thinking 
> all the time.

Hey, I'm on several technical lists, but this one beats them all!

-- Dave

From elb at kb8ojh.net  Sat Feb  6 14:18:46 2021
From: elb at kb8ojh.net (Ethan Blanton)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2021 14:18:46 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Design at Teletype
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.2002171641370.4621@Frances>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.20.2002171641370.4621@Frances>
Message-ID: <20210206191846.GA22814@mail.kb8ojh.net>

(I know I'm resurrecting a thread that's almost one year old, but I
 had this document on my to-read list, and I just got to it.)

Jim Haynes wrote:
> Attached is the preface to the designer's handbook.

What I want to know is ... what did they use to typeset this document?
It is proportional-spaced and full justified, yet appears to show
marks of having been input via something like a keyboard (missing
spaces and other keyboard-like typographical errors, the only emphasis
in use are all caps and underlining, etc.).  Is this the sort of
document that a typesetting Teletype with a 6-bit code could produce?
1956 is too early for it to have been computer typeset, yet it does
not look (to my untrained eye) like a Linotype or even hand-assembled
metal type output.  It's possible that artifacts of scanning led me to
that conclusion, however.

Does anyone have a guess as to how this document was produced?  Or
maybe it was _re_produced later with a computerized process, and
simply retained its 1956 date?

Ethan

From wa5cab at cs.com  Sat Feb  6 16:28:15 2021
From: wa5cab at cs.com (Robert Downs)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2021 15:28:15 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] TM 11-486 & TM 11-680
In-Reply-To: <026701d6fa67$f12fb760$d38f2620$@gmail.com>
References: <026701d6fa67$f12fb760$d38f2620$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <008401d6fcce$fbec2cb0$f3c48610$@com>

To answer your last question first, not that I know of.  However, there is
an equivalent to TM 11-487 so there could be one that I have never ID'd

 

TM 11-680 was published 10/15/1947 and at least under that number, was not
revised and later republished.  I have one extra original available for
$27.70 plus MM postage.

 

TM 11-486 was originally published 04/25/1945.  I unfortunately do not have
any extra originals of the first edition and have never scanned it for
reprinting as I did TM 11-487 on the equipment.

 

Beginning in 1956, the manual was broken up into 11 volumes similar to how
they did TM 11-487) and revised and republished as TM 11-486-1 through TM
11-486-11.  I do have extras of some of those.  In 1963, some of the 11 were
revised and republished.

 

Robert Downs

 

From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net
[mailto:greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Paul Birkel
Sent: Wednesday, February 3, 2021 14:06
To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: [GreenKeys] TM 11-486 & TM 11-680

 

I found a copy of TM 11-680 here:
https://radionerds.com/index.php/File:TM_11-680_TELETYPEWRITER_CIRCUITS_AND_
EQUIPMENT.pdf

 

Not luck as yet finding a copy online of TM 11-486 Electrical Communications
Systems Engineering (1945), however there is an outline here:
http://www.military-info.com/Aphoto/TM%2011_486.htm

 

Is TM 11-486 perhaps published under a different number by the USN?  Or
hiding somewhere in our collective archives :->?

 

Thank you.

 

-----

 

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From jim.w2jc at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 17:56:02 2021
From: jim.w2jc at gmail.com (Jim Cooper)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2021 17:56:02 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] TM 11-486 & TM 11-680
In-Reply-To: <008401d6fcce$fbec2cb0$f3c48610$@com>
References: <026701d6fa67$f12fb760$d38f2620$@gmail.com>,
	<008401d6fcce$fbec2cb0$f3c48610$@com>
Message-ID: <601F1E82.18417.649FDFE@jim.w2jc.gmail.com>

On 6 Feb 2021 at 15:28, Robert Downs via GreenKeys wrote:

> TM 11-486 was originally published
> 04/25/1945.  I unfortunately do not
> have any extra originals of the first
> edition and have never scanned it for
> reprinting as I did TM 11-487 on the
> equipment. 
> 
> Beginning in 1956, the manual was
> broken up into 11 volumes similar to
> how they did TM 11-487) and revised
> and republished as TM 11-486-1
> through TM 11-486-11.  I do have
> extras of some of those.  In 1963,
> some of the 11 were revised and
> republished. 

I have an original copy of the TM 11-486,
which is about an inch and a quarter thick. 

I also have original copies of each of the 
eleven later sections.  

Actually, I have an almost COMPLETE SET 
of TM 11-  tech manuals (original copies) from 
the beginning thru until they started numbering
with the NSN numbers ... plus a lot of the 
NSN-type manuals for teleprinter stuff. 

Over the years, I've got MANY thousands of 
20th century US dollars invested in my compulsion 
to make the set complete ...  these days it does 
not look like I'll ever find someone willing to restore 
even part of the investment in the collection...

So if anyone wants that original TM 11-486 
for $50 let me know ....  or the series from 
-1 thru -11 for $250 ...  

Jim  W2JC 



From 1oldlens1 at ix.netcom.com  Sat Feb  6 18:12:46 2021
From: 1oldlens1 at ix.netcom.com (Richard Knoppow)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2021 15:12:46 -0800
Subject: [GreenKeys] TM 11-486 & TM 11-680
In-Reply-To: <601F1E82.18417.649FDFE@jim.w2jc.gmail.com>
References: <026701d6fa67$f12fb760$d38f2620$@gmail.com>
	<008401d6fcce$fbec2cb0$f3c48610$@com>
	<601F1E82.18417.649FDFE@jim.w2jc.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <085995f8-f22d-13c9-f3a7-944b9e309977@ix.netcom.com>

 ?? Somewhere in my lost books is a military manual of WW-2 
vintage that contains a survey of radio receivers, it includes 
charts showing spurious responses of several familiar sets 
including the Super Pro, HRO, SX-28. I have never see it on line 
and don't know the number. I can't find my copy and may not have 
it any more. I remember the best performer was the Super Pro and 
that the spur graph for the SX-28 looked like a corn field. Does 
anyone recognize this book and, if so, is it on line somewhere?

O

-- 
Richard Knoppow
1oldlens1 at ix.netcom.com
WB6KBL


From jdangus at att.net  Sat Feb  6 18:53:57 2021
From: jdangus at att.net (Jeffrey Angus)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2021 17:53:57 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] Older receivers
In-Reply-To: <085995f8-f22d-13c9-f3a7-944b9e309977@ix.netcom.com>
References: <026701d6fa67$f12fb760$d38f2620$@gmail.com>
	<008401d6fcce$fbec2cb0$f3c48610$@com>
	<601F1E82.18417.649FDFE@jim.w2jc.gmail.com>
	<085995f8-f22d-13c9-f3a7-944b9e309977@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <b74b6c34-cea9-4cdc-87df-c00d0ead1c9e@att.net>

On 2/6/21 5:12 PM, Richard Knoppow wrote:
> I remember the best performer was the Super Pro and that the spur
> graph for the SX-28 looked like a corn field.
This doesn't surprise me actually.

The engineers at Hammarlund were focused on performance.
The engineers at Hallicrafters were focused on bells and whistles
to make up for the lack of performance.



-- 
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWI
www.foxsmercantile.com


From sheldondaitch at yahoo.com  Sat Feb  6 19:20:47 2021
From: sheldondaitch at yahoo.com (Sheldon Daitch)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 00:20:47 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [GreenKeys] Design at Teletype
In-Reply-To: <20210206191846.GA22814@mail.kb8ojh.net>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.20.2002171641370.4621@Frances>
	<20210206191846.GA22814@mail.kb8ojh.net>
Message-ID: <1964800954.502230.1612657247265@mail.yahoo.com>

 Ethan,
It might have simply been typed on an IBM Executive series typewriter.

While yes, this is a Wikipedia link, there are links to IBM products.
73
Sheldon
    On Saturday, February 6, 2021, 02:19:06 PM EST, Ethan Blanton <elb at kb8ojh.net> wrote:  
 
 (I know I'm resurrecting a thread that's almost one year old, but I
 had this document on my to-read list, and I just got to it.)

Jim Haynes wrote:
> Attached is the preface to the designer's handbook.

What I want to know is ... what did they use to typeset this document?
It is proportional-spaced and full justified, yet appears to show
marks of having been input via something like a keyboard (missing
spaces and other keyboard-like typographical errors, the only emphasis
in use are all caps and underlining, etc.).? Is this the sort of
document that a typesetting Teletype with a 6-bit code could produce?
1956 is too early for it to have been computer typeset, yet it does
not look (to my untrained eye) like a Linotype or even hand-assembled
metal type output.? It's possible that artifacts of scanning led me to
that conclusion, however.

Does anyone have a guess as to how this document was produced?? Or
maybe it was _re_produced later with a computerized process, and
simply retained its 1956 date?

Ethan
______________________________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net

>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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From sheldondaitch at yahoo.com  Sat Feb  6 20:26:46 2021
From: sheldondaitch at yahoo.com (Sheldon Daitch)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 01:26:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [GreenKeys] Design at Teletype
In-Reply-To: <1964800954.502230.1612657247265@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.20.2002171641370.4621@Frances>
	<20210206191846.GA22814@mail.kb8ojh.net>
	<1964800954.502230.1612657247265@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2109727947.1270419.1612661206889@mail.yahoo.com>

 Guess it might be nice to include the link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Electric_typewriter

Also see:

https://www.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/modelb/modelb_4509PH07.html

Sheldon
    On Saturday, February 6, 2021, 07:21:29 PM EST, Sheldon Daitch via GreenKeys <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net> wrote:  
 
  Ethan,
It might have simply been typed on an IBM Executive series typewriter.

While yes, this is a Wikipedia link, there are links to IBM products.
73
Sheldon
    On Saturday, February 6, 2021, 02:19:06 PM EST, Ethan Blanton <elb at kb8ojh.net> wrote:  
 
 (I know I'm resurrecting a thread that's almost one year old, but I
 had this document on my to-read list, and I just got to it.)

Jim Haynes wrote:
> Attached is the preface to the designer's handbook.

What I want to know is ... what did they use to typeset this document?
It is proportional-spaced and full justified, yet appears to show
marks of having been input via something like a keyboard (missing
spaces and other keyboard-like typographical errors, the only emphasis
in use are all caps and underlining, etc.).? Is this the sort of
document that a typesetting Teletype with a 6-bit code could produce?
1956 is too early for it to have been computer typeset, yet it does
not look (to my untrained eye) like a Linotype or even hand-assembled
metal type output.? It's possible that artifacts of scanning led me to
that conclusion, however.

Does anyone have a guess as to how this document was produced?? Or
maybe it was _re_produced later with a computerized process, and
simply retained its 1956 date?

Ethan
______________________________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net

>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to sheldondaitch at yahoo.com
  ______________________________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net

>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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From navy.radio at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 21:15:47 2021
From: navy.radio at gmail.com (Nick England)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2021 21:15:47 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Design at Teletype
In-Reply-To: <20210206191846.GA22814@mail.kb8ojh.net>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.20.2002171641370.4621@Frances>
	<20210206191846.GA22814@mail.kb8ojh.net>
Message-ID: <CAB55hNdCZo8p4RF5vjzDZ1w56+agW5bZ76PdYBgFpo6v4VdbAw@mail.gmail.com>

FWIW- Example of teletypesetter output
http://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/tty/ts/teletypesetter-m20-AP-sample.pdf

Nick


On Sat, Feb 6, 2021 at 2:18 PM Ethan Blanton <elb at kb8ojh.net> wrote:

> (I know I'm resurrecting a thread that's almost one year old, but I
>  had this document on my to-read list, and I just got to it.)
>
> Jim Haynes wrote:
> > Attached is the preface to the designer's handbook.
>
> What I want to know is ... what did they use to typeset this document?
> It is proportional-spaced and full justified, yet appears to show
> marks of having been input via something like a keyboard (missing
> spaces and other keyboard-like typographical errors, the only emphasis
> in use are all caps and underlining, etc.).  Is this the sort of
> document that a typesetting Teletype with a 6-bit code could produce?
> 1956 is too early for it to have been computer typeset, yet it does
> not look (to my untrained eye) like a Linotype or even hand-assembled
> metal type output.  It's possible that artifacts of scanning led me to
> that conclusion, however.
>
> Does anyone have a guess as to how this document was produced?  Or
> maybe it was _re_produced later with a computerized process, and
> simply retained its 1956 date?
>
> Ethan
>
-- 
Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com
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From harold at w6iwi.org  Sat Feb  6 21:42:50 2021
From: harold at w6iwi.org (Harold Hallikainen)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2021 18:42:50 -0800
Subject: [GreenKeys] Design at Teletype
In-Reply-To: <CAB55hNdCZo8p4RF5vjzDZ1w56+agW5bZ76PdYBgFpo6v4VdbAw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.20.2002171641370.4621@Frances>
	<20210206191846.GA22814@mail.kb8ojh.net>
	<CAB55hNdCZo8p4RF5vjzDZ1w56+agW5bZ76PdYBgFpo6v4VdbAw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7e1dfc68e780ea7a3e83c279801debca.squirrel@mai.hallikainen.org>


> FWIW- Example of teletypesetter output
> http://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/tty/ts/teletypesetter-m20-AP-sample.pdf
>
> Nick

Interesting sample stories! Looking around a bit more, I found this page
on teletypesetting: https://www.smecc.org/teletypes_in_typesetting.htm .

It is amazing what they did on the perforator to keep track of where they
were on a line.

Something that I thought would be interesting for the 14 reperforator
would be to have the tape preprinted with marks or color changes that
would correspond to a line length. Of course, non-printing characters
would still consume space on the tape, but it seems that this might be
"close enough." It would be similar to the color change at the center of
the roll telling you that you are about out of tape. An operator could
watch the tape for a color change and know it's about time to put in a
CRLF. Seems a LOT simpler than the various character position counters,
and is probably close enough for most applications. Was such tape ever
produced?

Harod
https://w6iwi.org



-- 
FCC Rules Updated Daily at http://www.hallikainen.com
Not sent from an iPhone.

From harold at w6iwi.org  Sat Feb  6 21:48:57 2021
From: harold at w6iwi.org (Harold Hallikainen)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2021 18:48:57 -0800
Subject: [GreenKeys] Design at Teletype
In-Reply-To: <7e1dfc68e780ea7a3e83c279801debca.squirrel@mai.hallikainen.org>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.20.2002171641370.4621@Frances>
	<20210206191846.GA22814@mail.kb8ojh.net>
	<CAB55hNdCZo8p4RF5vjzDZ1w56+agW5bZ76PdYBgFpo6v4VdbAw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7e1dfc68e780ea7a3e83c279801debca.squirrel@mai.hallikainen.org>
Message-ID: <cd1bf720b3f8746858aa36d51b4b1cdd.squirrel@mai.hallikainen.org>

Following up on my last post, there is a LOT to read at
https://www.smecc.org/teletype_-_wire_service_and_rtty.htm .

Harold


-- 
http://w6iwi.org

From jhhaynes at earthlink.net  Sat Feb  6 22:02:16 2021
From: jhhaynes at earthlink.net (Jim Haynes)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2021 21:02:16 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [GreenKeys] Design at Teletype
In-Reply-To: <7e1dfc68e780ea7a3e83c279801debca.squirrel@mai.hallikainen.org>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.20.2002171641370.4621@Frances>
	<20210206191846.GA22814@mail.kb8ojh.net>
	<CAB55hNdCZo8p4RF5vjzDZ1w56+agW5bZ76PdYBgFpo6v4VdbAw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7e1dfc68e780ea7a3e83c279801debca.squirrel@mai.hallikainen.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.2102062058200.11737@Frances>

On Sat, 6 Feb 2021, Harold Hallikainen wrote:

> It is amazing what they did on the perforator to keep track of where they
> were on a line.
>
And it seems to have taken a lot of tries to get a good perforator,
as evidenced by the number of patents for those.  The perforator had
to deal with the different character widths in the typesetter font,
and then with the spacebands which are the things that fill in blank
spaces in the line to be cast.  So it was a lot more complicated than
the perforators for characters of uniform width.

From pbirkel at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 06:38:23 2021
From: pbirkel at gmail.com (Paul Birkel)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 06:38:23 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] iTTY and the Volpe USB Interface Board
Message-ID: <08fd01d6fd45$be36c700$3aa45500$@gmail.com>

Now that my M19 is approaching a working state (currently fussing with CAR
RET bounce/settling and the dashpot)  I'd like to exercise it from an iTTY
feed.

 

I have an assembled original (green PCB) Volpe USB interface board.

 

Is ttyBash (https://teletype.net/display/TEL/ttyBash) coupled with fldigi
(http://www.w1hkj.com/) the standard/only software path to connect-the-dots?
Any alternatives that I should be considering?

 

Does anyone have any specific experience establishing a feed from iTTY via
the Volpe board that they can share?

 

Thank you,

paul

 

 

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From steve.n4tty at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 09:01:31 2021
From: steve.n4tty at gmail.com (Steve Garrison)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 09:01:31 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] iTTY and the Volpe USB Interface Board
In-Reply-To: <08fd01d6fd45$be36c700$3aa45500$@gmail.com>
References: <08fd01d6fd45$be36c700$3aa45500$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <01f101d6fd59$bd67c720$38375560$@gmail.com>

Paul, there are at least two different boards that might be being referenced
when you hear/see Volpe board.  The one you seem to be referencing here is
the one that allows you to connect your loop to your computer via a USB
port.  I've heard this board referred to as the Version 2 board.

 

The board that has been referred to as Version 1 is the board that I think
you would need to copy the ITTY streams.

 

I refer to that board as the Volpe Demod board.  It allows you to take the
audio from the ITTY stream and drive the loop to your TTY.  It requires
three connections.  A connection to an audio source, your PC audio out jack,
even the audio jack on my iPhone works, to deliver the ITTY tones to the
board.  Another connection for a 9 to 12V source of power.  And a final
connection to your loop.

 

I'm in the process of drawing up Eric's original design of the Demod board
(aka Version 1) and producing the files to order some PCBs to build some of
these Demod boards, but have been side tracked by a honey-do list.  I hope
to get back to it soon and get some boards ordered.  The demodulator used on
the board is now obsolete, so it is no longer available through sources like
Digikey or Mouser.  I did order a few from China via eBay and they arrived
in Friday's mail.  They have not been tried yet however.

 

Stay tuned if this is the route you would like to go.

 

And by the way, I'm not clear at all how the other items you mention might
accomplish the same goal.  Maybe others can enlighten us both.

 

Steve G./N4TTY

 

From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net <greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net>
On Behalf Of Paul Birkel
Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 6:38 AM
To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: [GreenKeys] iTTY and the Volpe USB Interface Board

 

Now that my M19 is approaching a working state (currently fussing with CAR
RET bounce/settling and the dashpot)  I'd like to exercise it from an iTTY
feed.

 

I have an assembled original (green PCB) Volpe USB interface board.

 

Is ttyBash ( <https://teletype.net/display/TEL/ttyBash>
https://teletype.net/display/TEL/ttyBash) coupled with fldigi (
<http://www.w1hkj.com/> http://www.w1hkj.com/) the standard/only software
path to connect-the-dots?  Any alternatives that I should be considering?

 

Does anyone have any specific experience establishing a feed from iTTY via
the Volpe board that they can share?

 

Thank you,

paul

 

 

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From duncanancy at earthlink.net  Sun Feb  7 11:12:54 2021
From: duncanancy at earthlink.net (Duncan Brown)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 11:12:54 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] iTTY and the Volpe USB Interface Board
In-Reply-To: <08fd01d6fd45$be36c700$3aa45500$@gmail.com>
References: <08fd01d6fd45$be36c700$3aa45500$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9eed01a4-1f00-cda5-9498-9c4746c56dce@earthlink.net>

Paul,

To connect to ITTY and send the signal to your M19, you do not need 
Fldigi, MMTTY, TTYBASH or a USB connection. You don't need any software.

ITTY is "steaming audio" in the form of a 5-bit AFSK TTY signal (like 
was used to be transmitted by radio).? You just need to be able to 
receive the audio (Browser on your computer) and then something to 
convert the two audio tones to an on/off DC signal and then maybe a 
level shifter to match the voltage/current of your M19 loop.

As Steve said, the Ver 1 Volpe board will do the interface between your 
computer audio and your M19 loop.

Good luck & Have fun,

Duncan
K2OEQ

On 07-Feb-21 06:38, Paul Birkel wrote:
>
> Now that my M19 is approaching a working state (currently fussing with 
> CAR RET bounce/settling and the dashpot) ?I?d like to exercise it from 
> an iTTY feed.
>
> I have an assembled original (green PCB) Volpe USB interface board.
>
> Is ttyBash (https://teletype.net/display/TEL/ttyBash 
> <https://teletype.net/display/TEL/ttyBash>) coupled with fldigi 
> (http://www.w1hkj.com/ <http://www.w1hkj.com/>) the standard/only 
> software path to connect-the-dots?? Any alternatives that I should be 
> considering?
>
> Does anyone have any specific experience establishing a feed from iTTY 
> via the Volpe board that they can share?
>
> Thank you,
>
> paul
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to duncanancy at earthlink.net


From 1oldlens1 at ix.netcom.com  Sun Feb  7 12:43:05 2021
From: 1oldlens1 at ix.netcom.com (Richard Knoppow)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 09:43:05 -0800
Subject: [GreenKeys] TM 11-486 & TM 11-680
In-Reply-To: <085995f8-f22d-13c9-f3a7-944b9e309977@ix.netcom.com>
References: <026701d6fa67$f12fb760$d38f2620$@gmail.com>
	<008401d6fcce$fbec2cb0$f3c48610$@com>
	<601F1E82.18417.649FDFE@jim.w2jc.gmail.com>
	<085995f8-f22d-13c9-f3a7-944b9e309977@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <c26c3f91-40d9-a0f6-60d4-1317e978f052@ix.netcom.com>

 ??? Having had a chance to go over this book in more detail I am 
beginning to think it is the one I asked about. It does have 
charts showing spurious responses of the Super-Pro, SX-28 and 
some others and also transmitter spurs. The SX-28 is not as bad 
as I remembered but its been decades since I had the book. It is 
a treasure of information.

On 2/6/2021 3:12 PM, Richard Knoppow wrote:
> Somewhere in my lost books is a military manual of WW-2 vintage 
> that contains a survey of radio receivers, it includes charts 
> showing spurious responses of several familiar sets including 
> the Super Pro, HRO, SX-28. I have never see it on line and 
> don't know the number. I can't find my copy and may not have it 
> any more. I remember the best performer was the Super Pro and 
> that the spur graph for the SX-28 looked like a corn field. 
> Does anyone recognize this book and, if so, is it on line 
> somewhere?
>
> O
>

-- 
Richard Knoppow
1oldlens1 at ix.netcom.com
WB6KBL


From kn4ucl at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 13:01:25 2021
From: kn4ucl at gmail.com (Andy KN4UCL)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 13:01:25 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Local vs. Line mode tape reading: 33 ASR
Message-ID: <CA+H6KC=LeCxVhkx5_XJYX8ZP+uyeKb5ThwzAup8ssSG2zyNKVg@mail.gmail.com>

Gents, my tape reader behaves as expected in Local mode (with the Control
Lever to START) but in Line mode with a tape positioned correctly it does
not "activate" tape reading. Pushing down the little sensing pin (apologies
not sure what it is called, see picture) only starts tape reading when in
Local.  Presumably this is a configuration as my other 33 works as expected
in Line mode?

Thoughts appreciated as always!
Andy
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From teletypeparts at comcast.net  Sun Feb  7 13:33:09 2021
From: teletypeparts at comcast.net (WAYNE)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 13:33:09 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [GreenKeys] Local vs. Line mode tape reading: 33 ASR
In-Reply-To: <CA+H6KC=LeCxVhkx5_XJYX8ZP+uyeKb5ThwzAup8ssSG2zyNKVg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+H6KC=LeCxVhkx5_XJYX8ZP+uyeKb5ThwzAup8ssSG2zyNKVg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <97633265.289085.1612722789796@connect.xfinity.com>

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From teletypeparts at comcast.net  Sun Feb  7 13:34:42 2021
From: teletypeparts at comcast.net (WAYNE)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 13:34:42 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [GreenKeys] Fwd: TR not working in Line mode
In-Reply-To: <731213259.289070.1612722518456@connect.xfinity.com>
References: <CA+H6KCn50T-Q8SNFuBf+WkWSrWbHN6w2EnHrVLhW5S3dMPeouw@mail.gmail.com>
	<731213259.289070.1612722518456@connect.xfinity.com>
Message-ID: <561754812.289093.1612722886549@connect.xfinity.com>

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From navy.radio at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 13:48:27 2021
From: navy.radio at gmail.com (Nick England)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 13:48:27 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] FTGH - Mainline TT/L2 RTTY Converter
Message-ID: <CAB55hNf5HgcHFJ81cvk9qdXJvcxHHs7X620R5ZCnSp52XE8pHg@mail.gmail.com>

Picked up at a hamfest but I'm not ever going to get around to doing
anything with it.
Looks complete and is a very nice construction job. You pay shipping from
27514.
Photos at http://www.navy-radio.com/tty/TTL2/index.htm

As usual, in the event of multiple requests, extra points go to the most
heart-rending, hilarious, pathetic, or otherwise interesting story about
why you want it.
Decision of the judges is final. Void where prohibited by law. Employees of
Mainline RTTY Inc. are not eligible.

Cheers.
Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com
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From douglas-w-jones at uiowa.edu  Sun Feb  7 14:14:16 2021
From: douglas-w-jones at uiowa.edu (Jones, Douglas W)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 19:14:16 +0000
Subject: [GreenKeys] [External] Local vs. Line mode tape reading: 33 ASR
In-Reply-To: <CA+H6KC=LeCxVhkx5_XJYX8ZP+uyeKb5ThwzAup8ssSG2zyNKVg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+H6KC=LeCxVhkx5_XJYX8ZP+uyeKb5ThwzAup8ssSG2zyNKVg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DM6PR04MB5003C685F12E4968D8B358DCA8B09@DM6PR04MB5003.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>

From: Andy KN4UCL [kn4ucl at gmail.com] -- Sunday, February 7, 2021 12:01 PM

> Gents, my tape reader behaves as expected in Local mode ... but in Line mode ... it does not "activate" 

As Wayne suggested, this is the expected behavior if your 33 was equipped with a reader-run relay -- this was the normal configuration of 33 ASR Teletypes sold for use with DEC minicomputers through the 1960s into the 1970s, and some other minicomputer manufacturers made the same modifications.  The cable from minicomputer to Teletype had 6 wires, 2 for the keyboard current loop, 2 for the printer current loop, and two for the tape-reader enable loop.  All of DEC's Teletype interface boards for the PDP-8 through PDP-11 supported this model.  Receipt of a character by the serial to parallel circuitry on the board disabled the paper-tape reader until the computer software read the character out of the interface reigster.  This eliminated the need for more complex flow control protocols like XON - XOFF -- "stunt box" features that were not available in the early part of the 33 ASR production run.

After UART chips became available with internal FIFO buffering, the interface boards only disabled the reader when the FIFO was full.  If the software was interrupt driven with a decent operating system, the flow control became an irrelevant fossil of an earlier era, but you have to remember that early code for the PDP-11 and most code for the PDP-8 had only the crudest conception of an I/O driver.

          Doug Jones
          jones at cs.uiowa.edu

From teletypeparts at comcast.net  Sun Feb  7 14:54:14 2021
From: teletypeparts at comcast.net (WAYNE)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 14:54:14 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [GreenKeys] [External] Local vs. Line mode tape reading: 33 ASR
In-Reply-To: <DM6PR04MB5003C685F12E4968D8B358DCA8B09@DM6PR04MB5003.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CA+H6KC=LeCxVhkx5_XJYX8ZP+uyeKb5ThwzAup8ssSG2zyNKVg@mail.gmail.com>
	<DM6PR04MB5003C685F12E4968D8B358DCA8B09@DM6PR04MB5003.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <2001415053.424240.1612727654882@connect.xfinity.com>

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From kn4ucl at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 18:54:24 2021
From: kn4ucl at gmail.com (Andy KN4UCL)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 18:54:24 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] [External] Local vs. Line mode tape reading: 33 ASR
In-Reply-To: <2001415053.424240.1612727654882@connect.xfinity.com>
References: <2001415053.424240.1612727654882@connect.xfinity.com>
Message-ID: <D9EBF2A9-D51D-4196-A821-583AC52F541C@gmail.com>

Thank you for the fantastic info and help, as usual!!
Andy
> On Feb 7, 2021, at 2:54 PM, WAYNE <teletypeparts at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Doug and Andy,
>  
> Thanks for the good explanation Doug.  
>  
> My email changed the order of my pics but I think you and Andy can figure that out.  
>  
> Here are a couple more pics.  The colors for the Teletype Send and Receive may not be correct but the TR computer control card colors are.
>  
> The schematic says -15 volts but the relay card will work fine with -12 volts.
>  
> I have never looked into wiring up a standard 33 with the TR control so if you attempt it I will not be much help.
>  
> I used to remove the computer control card and make the UCC-6 and TR as it came from the factory but now I just move the one pin in Molex 4 from pin 7 to pin 11 to give the new owner the option of using the TR computer control by moving the wire back to pin 7.
>  
> Another pic of Molex pin order is attached.
>  
> 73,
>  
> Wayne
> KB1FDW
> <Digital reader-enable[1].pdf>
> <UCC 6 with Tape Reader Control Info.doc>
> <UCC-6 with reader control card Note red arrow.JPG>
> <Terminal Strip and Molex Info.JPG>
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From pbirkel at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 05:22:19 2021
From: pbirkel at gmail.com (Paul Birkel)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2021 05:22:19 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] iTTY and the Volpe USB Interface Board
In-Reply-To: <01f101d6fd59$bd67c720$38375560$@gmail.com>
References: <08fd01d6fd45$be36c700$3aa45500$@gmail.com>
	<01f101d6fd59$bd67c720$38375560$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0aaf01d6fe04$4875c3d0$d9614b70$@gmail.com>

Thanks Steve; I was working from
https://teletype.net/display/TEL/Volpe+USB+Interface+Board (and then
https://teletype.net/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=1277955) which I took to
be definitive, does list three manufacturing runs, and definitely makes
clear that no demodulation capability is included.  It?s up to software to
get from the iTTY stream to a character stream on USB.  So I was looking for
a software-based solution to bridge that gap.

 

Mike Douglas mentioned in a thread ~2 weeks ago that he was planning to
include a demodulator function in his project.

 

I see from your thread last month (?XR2211 demodulator circuit boards??)
that you?re using the XR2211 in your respin, rather than the original
NJM2211.  I have a small stash of those that I acquired from utsource
(pretty reputable folks) three years ago  for this eventual purpose.  I
didn?t realize that this circuit was *also* referred to as ?the Volpe
board?.  Oops.

 

So do mark me as _very interested_, thank you :->.  (Yes, I have outstanding
honey-do?s as well.)

 

In the meantime, has anyone set up a simple mechanism on Windows to read a
stream of characters from a file and feed the Volpe USB Interface Board?
That would be sufficient to meet my immediate stimulate-and-test the M19
objective.  Sounds like a Unix pipe to me 
 so Ubuntu running on WSL
(Windows Subsystem for Linux) with Win10 seems like a doable do.  But
perhaps I?m being na?ve here!

 

From: Steve Garrison [mailto:steve.n4tty at gmail.com] 
Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2021 9:02 AM
To: 'Paul Birkel'; greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: RE: [GreenKeys] iTTY and the Volpe USB Interface Board

 

Paul, there are at least two different boards that might be being referenced
when you hear/see Volpe board.  The one you seem to be referencing here is
the one that allows you to connect your loop to your computer via a USB
port.  I?ve heard this board referred to as the Version 2 board.

 

The board that has been referred to as Version 1 is the board that I think
you would need to copy the ITTY streams.

 

I refer to that board as the Volpe Demod board.  It allows you to take the
audio from the ITTY stream and drive the loop to your TTY.  It requires
three connections.  A connection to an audio source, your PC audio out jack,
even the audio jack on my iPhone works, to deliver the ITTY tones to the
board.  Another connection for a 9 to 12V source of power.  And a final
connection to your loop.

 

I?m in the process of drawing up Eric?s original design of the Demod board
(aka Version 1) and producing the files to order some PCBs to build some of
these Demod boards, but have been side tracked by a honey-do list.  I hope
to get back to it soon and get some boards ordered.  The demodulator used on
the board is now obsolete, so it is no longer available through sources like
Digikey or Mouser.  I did order a few from China via eBay and they arrived
in Friday?s mail.  They have not been tried yet however.

 

Stay tuned if this is the route you would like to go.

 

And by the way, I?m not clear at all how the other items you mention might
accomplish the same goal.  Maybe others can enlighten us both.

 

Steve G./N4TTY

 

From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net <greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net>
On Behalf Of Paul Birkel
Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 6:38 AM
To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: [GreenKeys] iTTY and the Volpe USB Interface Board

 

Now that my M19 is approaching a working state (currently fussing with CAR
RET bounce/settling and the dashpot)  I?d like to exercise it from an iTTY
feed.

 

I have an assembled original (green PCB) Volpe USB interface board.

 

Is ttyBash ( <https://teletype.net/display/TEL/ttyBash>
https://teletype.net/display/TEL/ttyBash) coupled with fldigi (
<http://www.w1hkj.com/> http://www.w1hkj.com/) the standard/only software
path to connect-the-dots?  Any alternatives that I should be considering?

 

Does anyone have any specific experience establishing a feed from iTTY via
the Volpe board that they can share?

 

Thank you,

paul

 

 

-------------- next part --------------
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From pbirkel at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 05:30:04 2021
From: pbirkel at gmail.com (Paul Birkel)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2021 05:30:04 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] iTTY and the Volpe USB Interface Board
In-Reply-To: <9eed01a4-1f00-cda5-9498-9c4746c56dce@earthlink.net>
References: <08fd01d6fd45$be36c700$3aa45500$@gmail.com>
	<9eed01a4-1f00-cda5-9498-9c4746c56dce@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <0acb01d6fe05$5d730940$18591bc0$@gmail.com>

Thanks Duncan.  Regarding "something to convert ...", I'm reminded of this
cartoon
(http://cafehayek.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/miracle_cartoon.jpg) with
the caption "I think you should be more specific here in step two" (which is
a box labeled "Then a Miracle Occurs") :->.

I think that your proposed approach is essence what Mike Douglas mentioned
in a thread ~2 weeks ago regarding his planning to include a demodulator
function in his project.

-----Original Message-----
From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net
[mailto:greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Duncan Brown
Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2021 11:13 AM
To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] iTTY and the Volpe USB Interface Board

Paul,

To connect to ITTY and send the signal to your M19, you do not need 
Fldigi, MMTTY, TTYBASH or a USB connection. You don't need any software.

ITTY is "steaming audio" in the form of a 5-bit AFSK TTY signal (like 
was used to be transmitted by radio).? You just need to be able to 
receive the audio (Browser on your computer) and then something to 
convert the two audio tones to an on/off DC signal and then maybe a 
level shifter to match the voltage/current of your M19 loop.

As Steve said, the Ver 1 Volpe board will do the interface between your 
computer audio and your M19 loop.

Good luck & Have fun,

Duncan
K2OEQ

On 07-Feb-21 06:38, Paul Birkel wrote:
>
> Now that my M19 is approaching a working state (currently fussing with 
> CAR RET bounce/settling and the dashpot) ?I?d like to exercise it from 
> an iTTY feed.
>
> I have an assembled original (green PCB) Volpe USB interface board.
>
> Is ttyBash (https://teletype.net/display/TEL/ttyBash 
> <https://teletype.net/display/TEL/ttyBash>) coupled with fldigi 
> (http://www.w1hkj.com/ <http://www.w1hkj.com/>) the standard/only 
> software path to connect-the-dots?? Any alternatives that I should be 
> considering?
>
> Does anyone have any specific experience establishing a feed from iTTY 
> via the Volpe board that they can share?
>
> Thank you,
>
> paul
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to duncanancy at earthlink.net

______________________________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net

>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to pbirkel at gmail.com


From vk2bea at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 09:39:27 2021
From: vk2bea at gmail.com (Michael Katzmann)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2021 09:39:27 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] ASR33 line feed slipping and other woes
Message-ID: <CAMyt5OTnRVWY6_DZKyT6P2N8PF0FDgmnxxZSJNkEcANC_y5kuA@mail.gmail.com>

A couple of issues with the 33 I'm restoring after years of inactivity.
I suspect these are common issues with machines that have been unused
for long periods.
The first one is that the line feed action is inconsistent.
Occasionally, line feed doesn't occur or only partially occurs. I have
a friction feed system (not sprocket). From the manual that there is a
line feed clutch. I presume this needs to be adjusted so that there is
more friction. (when I apply some pull to the paper coming out and it
feeds normally). Can this be done without disassembling the unit and
if so how?

The second issue I'm facing is that the motor is rotating in its mount
so that the drive belt loosens. No matter how tight the four mounting
bolts are, the unit eventually rotates. Is there a fix for this? Do I
need to pack something under the saddles?
-- 
Michael - NV3Z

From w9ddd at tapr.org  Mon Feb  8 11:04:21 2021
From: w9ddd at tapr.org (John, W9DDD)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2021 10:04:21 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] iTTY and the Volpe USB Interface Board
In-Reply-To: <0aaf01d6fe04$4875c3d0$d9614b70$@gmail.com>
References: <08fd01d6fd45$be36c700$3aa45500$@gmail.com>
	<01f101d6fd59$bd67c720$38375560$@gmail.com>
	<0aaf01d6fe04$4875c3d0$d9614b70$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <23d72a3a-ee3d-c715-6aeb-b5be4953fbf0@tapr.org>

My original send of this to the list was rejected because it contained 
an executable (the bat file).  So I've added the .txt extension to it. 
So you need to rename that one by removing the .txt part.

Hi Paul,

I'm going to attach a couple of files I used on my windows 7 laptop.
You will need to change COMM5 to whatever comm port your Volpe USB board 
gets assigned.

testfile.txt is a line of RY and a line of THE QUICK BROWN FOX.

I run it in a DOS window obviously.  It will run forever, stop with 
"control C".


I'm trying to recall how I generated a CR LF LTRS sequence in the text 
file.  Maybe the Volpe USB board took care of that?

Also depending on what editor you might use to change comm ports may do 
some strange things - plan text vs. UTF?  It probably doesn't matter 
with the bat file.

John, W9DDD

On 2/8/2021 4:22 AM, Paul Birkel wrote:
> 
> In the meantime, has anyone set up a simple mechanism on Windows to read 
> a stream of characters from a file and feed the Volpe USB Interface 
> Board?? That would be sufficient to meet my immediate stimulate-and-test 
> the M19 objective.? Sounds like a Unix pipe to me ? so Ubuntu running on 
> WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux) with Win10 seems like a doable do.  
> But perhaps I?m being na?ve here!

-------------- next part --------------
RYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRY
THE QUICK BROWN FOX JUMPED OVER THE LAZY DOG'S BACK 0123456789 TIMES

-------------- next part --------------
MODE COM5: baud=9600 data=8 stop=2 parity=n

:RepeatFile
   Copy testfile.txt com5:
   Sleep 5      
GoTo RepeatFile


From duncanancy at earthlink.net  Mon Feb  8 11:32:01 2021
From: duncanancy at earthlink.net (Duncan Brown)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2021 11:32:01 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] iTTY and the Volpe USB Interface Board
In-Reply-To: <23d72a3a-ee3d-c715-6aeb-b5be4953fbf0@tapr.org>
References: <08fd01d6fd45$be36c700$3aa45500$@gmail.com>
	<01f101d6fd59$bd67c720$38375560$@gmail.com>
	<0aaf01d6fe04$4875c3d0$d9614b70$@gmail.com>
	<23d72a3a-ee3d-c715-6aeb-b5be4953fbf0@tapr.org>
Message-ID: <29f92951-495c-726c-5026-d9c0eda2cfec@earthlink.net>

John,

Won't your bat file just generate an ASCII bit stream out of the COMM port?

Won't be much good for Paul's M19!

Duncan
K2OEQ

On 08-Feb-21 11:04, John, W9DDD wrote:
> My original send of this to the list was rejected because it contained 
> an executable (the bat file).? So I've added the .txt extension to it. 
> So you need to rename that one by removing the .txt part.
>
> Hi Paul,
>
> I'm going to attach a couple of files I used on my windows 7 laptop.
> You will need to change COMM5 to whatever comm port your Volpe USB 
> board gets assigned.
>
> testfile.txt is a line of RY and a line of THE QUICK BROWN FOX.
>
> I run it in a DOS window obviously.? It will run forever, stop with 
> "control C".
>
>
> I'm trying to recall how I generated a CR LF LTRS sequence in the text 
> file.? Maybe the Volpe USB board took care of that?
>
> Also depending on what editor you might use to change comm ports may 
> do some strange things - plan text vs. UTF?? It probably doesn't 
> matter with the bat file.
>
> John, W9DDD
>
> On 2/8/2021 4:22 AM, Paul Birkel wrote:
>>
>> In the meantime, has anyone set up a simple mechanism on Windows to 
>> read a stream of characters from a file and feed the Volpe USB 
>> Interface Board?? That would be sufficient to meet my immediate 
>> stimulate-and-test the M19 objective.? Sounds like a Unix pipe to me 
>> ? so Ubuntu running on WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux) with Win10 
>> seems like a doable do.? But perhaps I?m being na?ve here!
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to duncanancy at earthlink.net


From w9ddd at tapr.org  Mon Feb  8 11:40:27 2021
From: w9ddd at tapr.org (John, W9DDD)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2021 10:40:27 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] iTTY and the Volpe USB Interface Board
In-Reply-To: <29f92951-495c-726c-5026-d9c0eda2cfec@earthlink.net>
References: <08fd01d6fd45$be36c700$3aa45500$@gmail.com>
	<01f101d6fd59$bd67c720$38375560$@gmail.com>
	<0aaf01d6fe04$4875c3d0$d9614b70$@gmail.com>
	<23d72a3a-ee3d-c715-6aeb-b5be4953fbf0@tapr.org>
	<29f92951-495c-726c-5026-d9c0eda2cfec@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5fa617ce-5969-3a98-77db-c398b09a4b94@tapr.org>

Sorry I didn't make it clear that the comm port in the bat file is the 
USB faux comm port that the Volpe USB board is attached to.  Volpe USB 
board does the conversion to baudot.

(I'm not 100% sure that sentence make it clear either)

John, W9DDD

On 2/8/2021 10:32 AM, Duncan Brown wrote:
> John,
> 
> Won't your bat file just generate an ASCII bit stream out of the COMM port?
> 
> Won't be much good for Paul's M19!
> 
> Duncan
> K2OEQ
> 
> On 08-Feb-21 11:04, John, W9DDD wrote:
>> My original send of this to the list was rejected because it contained 
>> an executable (the bat file).? So I've added the .txt extension to it. 
>> So you need to rename that one by removing the .txt part.
>>
>> Hi Paul,
>>
>> I'm going to attach a couple of files I used on my windows 7 laptop.
>> You will need to change COMM5 to whatever comm port your Volpe USB 
>> board gets assigned.
>>
>> testfile.txt is a line of RY and a line of THE QUICK BROWN FOX.
>>
>> I run it in a DOS window obviously.? It will run forever, stop with 
>> "control C".
>>
>>
>> I'm trying to recall how I generated a CR LF LTRS sequence in the text 
>> file.? Maybe the Volpe USB board took care of that?
>>
>> Also depending on what editor you might use to change comm ports may 
>> do some strange things - plan text vs. UTF?? It probably doesn't 
>> matter with the bat file.
>>
>> John, W9DDD
>>
>> On 2/8/2021 4:22 AM, Paul Birkel wrote:
>>>
>>> In the meantime, has anyone set up a simple mechanism on Windows to 
>>> read a stream of characters from a file and feed the Volpe USB 
>>> Interface Board?? That would be sufficient to meet my immediate 
>>> stimulate-and-test the M19 objective.? Sounds like a Unix pipe to me 
>>> ? so Ubuntu running on WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux) with Win10 
>>> seems like a doable do.? But perhaps I?m being na?ve here!
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> GreenKeys mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>
>>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: 
>>>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: 
>>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: 
>>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: 
>>>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to duncanancy at earthlink.net
> 
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> 
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: 
>>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: 
>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: 
>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: 
>>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to w9ddd at tapr.org

From paul0926 at comcast.net  Mon Feb  8 11:39:38 2021
From: paul0926 at comcast.net (Paul Heller)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2021 17:39:38 +0100
Subject: [GreenKeys] ASR33 line feed slipping and other woes
In-Reply-To: <CAMyt5OTnRVWY6_DZKyT6P2N8PF0FDgmnxxZSJNkEcANC_y5kuA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMyt5OTnRVWY6_DZKyT6P2N8PF0FDgmnxxZSJNkEcANC_y5kuA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2DA3EE9D-9665-4363-8EA0-6B1BFEB56389@comcast.net>

I had this first problem with my 32. My solution was a good cleaning of the platten. I had some old (unobtainium due to the chemicals contained it it) typewriter platten cleaner. Perhaps there is something modern that can be used. Maybe very light sanding of the platten (I did not have to do that). 

Also check the small roller in the middle at the bottom of the Platten to make sure it is smooth and round and did not get a flat spot on it from years of being unused. 

Paul
W2TTY

ITTY: 		HTTP://INTERNET-TTY.NET:8000/ITTY
ITTY100: 	HTTP://INTERNET-TTY.NET:8010/ITTY100
AUTOSTART: HTTP://INTERNET-TTY.NET:8030/AUTOSTART
EUROPE: 	HTTP://INTERNET-TTY.NET:8040/EUROPE

> On Feb 8, 2021, at 3:41 PM, Michael Katzmann <vk2bea at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?A couple of issues with the 33 I'm restoring after years of inactivity.
> I suspect these are common issues with machines that have been unused
> for long periods.
> The first one is that the line feed action is inconsistent.
> Occasionally, line feed doesn't occur or only partially occurs. I have
> a friction feed system (not sprocket). From the manual that there is a
> line feed clutch. I presume this needs to be adjusted so that there is
> more friction. (when I apply some pull to the paper coming out and it
> feeds normally). Can this be done without disassembling the unit and
> if so how?
> 
> The second issue I'm facing is that the motor is rotating in its mount
> so that the drive belt loosens. No matter how tight the four mounting
> bolts are, the unit eventually rotates. Is there a fix for this? Do I
> need to pack something under the saddles?
> -- 
> Michael - NV3Z
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> 
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to phearvada at gmail.com
-------------- next part --------------
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From vk2bea at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 11:57:47 2021
From: vk2bea at gmail.com (Michael Katzmann)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2021 11:57:47 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] ASR33 line feed slipping and other woes
In-Reply-To: <2DA3EE9D-9665-4363-8EA0-6B1BFEB56389@comcast.net>
References: <CAMyt5OTnRVWY6_DZKyT6P2N8PF0FDgmnxxZSJNkEcANC_y5kuA@mail.gmail.com>
	<2DA3EE9D-9665-4363-8EA0-6B1BFEB56389@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CAMyt5OSJxOeD4AxgWr-XSMgQPBQ-RkckEqyJPxvuRRzwtWhC5Q@mail.gmail.com>

This is not the paper slipping, it's the platten not turning properly.
There is a pawl that pulls the toothed wheel on the left. If I pull
this down from behind, the platten turns. It is whatever this is
attached to that is slipping prematurely.

On Mon, Feb 8, 2021 at 11:39 AM Paul Heller <paul0926 at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> I had this first problem with my 32. My solution was a good cleaning of the platten. I had some old (unobtainium due to the chemicals contained it it) typewriter platten cleaner. Perhaps there is something modern that can be used. Maybe very light sanding of the platten (I did not have to do that).
>
> Also check the small roller in the middle at the bottom of the Platten to make sure it is smooth and round and did not get a flat spot on it from years of being unused.
>
> Paul
> W2TTY
>
> ITTY: HTTP://INTERNET-TTY.NET:8000/ITTY
> ITTY100: HTTP://INTERNET-TTY.NET:8010/ITTY100
> AUTOSTART: HTTP://INTERNET-TTY.NET:8030/AUTOSTART
> EUROPE: HTTP://INTERNET-TTY.NET:8040/EUROPE
>
> On Feb 8, 2021, at 3:41 PM, Michael Katzmann <vk2bea at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ?A couple of issues with the 33 I'm restoring after years of inactivity.
> I suspect these are common issues with machines that have been unused
> for long periods.
> The first one is that the line feed action is inconsistent.
> Occasionally, line feed doesn't occur or only partially occurs. I have
> a friction feed system (not sprocket). From the manual that there is a
> line feed clutch. I presume this needs to be adjusted so that there is
> more friction. (when I apply some pull to the paper coming out and it
> feeds normally). Can this be done without disassembling the unit and
> if so how?
>
> The second issue I'm facing is that the motor is rotating in its mount
> so that the drive belt loosens. No matter how tight the four mounting
> bolts are, the unit eventually rotates. Is there a fix for this? Do I
> need to pack something under the saddles?
> --
> Michael - NV3Z
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>
> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>
> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>
> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to phearvada at gmail.com



-- 
   |\      _,,,---,,_             Michael Katzmann
   /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_         NV3Z / VK2BEA / G4NYV
  |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'
 '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)             vk2bea at gmail.com

From paul0926 at comcast.net  Mon Feb  8 11:59:08 2021
From: paul0926 at comcast.net (Paul Heller)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2021 17:59:08 +0100
Subject: [GreenKeys] ASR33 line feed slipping and other woes
In-Reply-To: <CAMyt5OSJxOeD4AxgWr-XSMgQPBQ-RkckEqyJPxvuRRzwtWhC5Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMyt5OSJxOeD4AxgWr-XSMgQPBQ-RkckEqyJPxvuRRzwtWhC5Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4BF1FAD0-8644-4437-BB00-776FAE689005@comcast.net>

Ok sorry. I misunderstood. I cannot help with that issue. 

Paul


> On Feb 8, 2021, at 5:58 PM, Michael Katzmann <vk2bea at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?This is not the paper slipping, it's the platten not turning properly.
> There is a pawl that pulls the toothed wheel on the left. If I pull
> this down from behind, the platten turns. It is whatever this is
> attached to that is slipping prematurely.
> 
>> On Mon, Feb 8, 2021 at 11:39 AM Paul Heller <paul0926 at comcast.net> wrote:
>> 
>> I had this first problem with my 32. My solution was a good cleaning of the platten. I had some old (unobtainium due to the chemicals contained it it) typewriter platten cleaner. Perhaps there is something modern that can be used. Maybe very light sanding of the platten (I did not have to do that).
>> 
>> Also check the small roller in the middle at the bottom of the Platten to make sure it is smooth and round and did not get a flat spot on it from years of being unused.
>> 
>> Paul
>> W2TTY
>> 
>> ITTY: HTTP://INTERNET-TTY.NET:8000/ITTY
>> ITTY100: HTTP://INTERNET-TTY.NET:8010/ITTY100
>> AUTOSTART: HTTP://INTERNET-TTY.NET:8030/AUTOSTART
>> EUROPE: HTTP://INTERNET-TTY.NET:8040/EUROPE
>> 
>> On Feb 8, 2021, at 3:41 PM, Michael Katzmann <vk2bea at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> ?A couple of issues with the 33 I'm restoring after years of inactivity.
>> I suspect these are common issues with machines that have been unused
>> for long periods.
>> The first one is that the line feed action is inconsistent.
>> Occasionally, line feed doesn't occur or only partially occurs. I have
>> a friction feed system (not sprocket). From the manual that there is a
>> line feed clutch. I presume this needs to be adjusted so that there is
>> more friction. (when I apply some pull to the paper coming out and it
>> feeds normally). Can this be done without disassembling the unit and
>> if so how?
>> 
>> The second issue I'm facing is that the motor is rotating in its mount
>> so that the drive belt loosens. No matter how tight the four mounting
>> bolts are, the unit eventually rotates. Is there a fix for this? Do I
>> need to pack something under the saddles?
>> --
>> Michael - NV3Z
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> GreenKeys mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>> 
>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>> 
>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>> 
>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>> 
>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>> 
>> 
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to phearvada at gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
>   |\      _,,,---,,_             Michael Katzmann
>   /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_         NV3Z / VK2BEA / G4NYV
>  |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'
> '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)             vk2bea at gmail.com


From teletypeparts at comcast.net  Mon Feb  8 12:12:28 2021
From: teletypeparts at comcast.net (WAYNE)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2021 12:12:28 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [GreenKeys] ASR33 line feed slipping and other woes
In-Reply-To: <CAMyt5OTnRVWY6_DZKyT6P2N8PF0FDgmnxxZSJNkEcANC_y5kuA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMyt5OTnRVWY6_DZKyT6P2N8PF0FDgmnxxZSJNkEcANC_y5kuA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1332527358.283518.1612804348784@connect.xfinity.com>

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From highpwr at bellsouth.net  Mon Feb  8 12:34:31 2021
From: highpwr at bellsouth.net (highpwr at bellsouth.net)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2021 12:34:31 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Model 33s & 35s
References: <05ba01d6fe40$a93a2350$fbae69f0$.ref@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <05ba01d6fe40$a93a2350$fbae69f0$@bellsouth.net>

Still have these units available in the Knoxville, TN area,

Free to a good home, search archives for additional info and pictures.

Steve
KM4V


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From jeffa at rodaw.com  Mon Feb  8 12:51:32 2021
From: jeffa at rodaw.com (Jeff Albrecht)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2021 10:51:32 -0700
Subject: [GreenKeys] ASR33 line feed slipping and other woes
In-Reply-To: <1332527358.283518.1612804348784@connect.xfinity.com>
References: <CAMyt5OTnRVWY6_DZKyT6P2N8PF0FDgmnxxZSJNkEcANC_y5kuA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1332527358.283518.1612804348784@connect.xfinity.com>
Message-ID: <0e244389-3a96-c350-c27a-5aecc9555576@rodaw.com>

On 2/8/2021 10:12 AM, WAYNE wrote:
> Michael,
> ? [...]
> Be sure to go to the wiki site for some help with other 33 work. Jeff 
> Albrecht set up the site for me and other 33 folks. There is nothing 
> on the site related to your issues but lots of other good info.
> https://wiki.theretrowagon.com/wiki/Teletype_Model_33 
> <https://wiki.theretrowagon.com/wiki/Teletype_Model_33>
Wayne and GKs,

I added Wayne's notes to a new section in the wiki "Line Feed Slipping" 
https://wiki.theretrowagon.com/wiki/Teletype_Model_33#Line_Feed_Slipping

Wayne if you want to add anything copy this section on the wiki, make 
changes and / or enhancements to it and email me the entire new section.

 ?- Jeff

KF7CRU @jhalbrecht @TheRetroWagon

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From teletypeparts at comcast.net  Mon Feb  8 12:58:41 2021
From: teletypeparts at comcast.net (WAYNE)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2021 12:58:41 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [GreenKeys] rubber restorer
Message-ID: <434039730.33854.1612807121669@connect.xfinity.com>

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From duncanancy at earthlink.net  Mon Feb  8 14:22:48 2021
From: duncanancy at earthlink.net (Duncan Brown)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2021 14:22:48 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] iTTY and the Volpe USB Interface Board
In-Reply-To: <5fa617ce-5969-3a98-77db-c398b09a4b94@tapr.org>
References: <08fd01d6fd45$be36c700$3aa45500$@gmail.com>
	<01f101d6fd59$bd67c720$38375560$@gmail.com>
	<0aaf01d6fe04$4875c3d0$d9614b70$@gmail.com>
	<23d72a3a-ee3d-c715-6aeb-b5be4953fbf0@tapr.org>
	<29f92951-495c-726c-5026-d9c0eda2cfec@earthlink.net>
	<5fa617ce-5969-3a98-77db-c398b09a4b94@tapr.org>
Message-ID: <55ed4f60-ffa4-518e-970e-9cd8c30d5fae@earthlink.net>

John,

QSL, I understand.

73,

Duncan
K2OEQ

On 08-Feb-21 11:40, John, W9DDD wrote:
> Sorry I didn't make it clear that the comm port in the bat file is the 
> USB faux comm port that the Volpe USB board is attached to.? Volpe USB 
> board does the conversion to baudot.
>
> (I'm not 100% sure that sentence make it clear either)
>
> John, W9DDD
>
> On 2/8/2021 10:32 AM, Duncan Brown wrote:
>> John,
>>
>> Won't your bat file just generate an ASCII bit stream out of the COMM 
>> port?
>>
>> Won't be much good for Paul's M19!
>>
>> Duncan
>> K2OEQ
>>
>> On 08-Feb-21 11:04, John, W9DDD wrote:
>>> My original send of this to the list was rejected because it 
>>> contained an executable (the bat file). So I've added the .txt 
>>> extension to it. So you need to rename that one by removing the .txt 
>>> part.
>>>
>>> Hi Paul,
>>>
>>> I'm going to attach a couple of files I used on my windows 7 laptop.
>>> You will need to change COMM5 to whatever comm port your Volpe USB 
>>> board gets assigned.
>>>
>>> testfile.txt is a line of RY and a line of THE QUICK BROWN FOX.
>>>
>>> I run it in a DOS window obviously.? It will run forever, stop with 
>>> "control C".
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm trying to recall how I generated a CR LF LTRS sequence in the 
>>> text file.? Maybe the Volpe USB board took care of that?
>>>
>>> Also depending on what editor you might use to change comm ports may 
>>> do some strange things - plan text vs. UTF?? It probably doesn't 
>>> matter with the bat file.
>>>
>>> John, W9DDD
>>>
>>> On 2/8/2021 4:22 AM, Paul Birkel wrote:
>>>>
>>>> In the meantime, has anyone set up a simple mechanism on Windows to 
>>>> read a stream of characters from a file and feed the Volpe USB 
>>>> Interface Board?? That would be sufficient to meet my immediate 
>>>> stimulate-and-test the M19 objective. Sounds like a Unix pipe to me 
>>>> ? so Ubuntu running on WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux) with Win10 
>>>> seems like a doable do.? But perhaps I?m being na?ve here!
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> GreenKeys mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>>
>>>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: 
>>>>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: 
>>>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: 
>>>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: 
>>>>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to duncanancy at earthlink.net
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> GreenKeys mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>
>>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: 
>>>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: 
>>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: 
>>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: 
>>>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to w9ddd at tapr.org
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: 
>>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: 
>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: 
>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: 
>>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to duncanancy at earthlink.net


From fred_moore at usa.net  Mon Feb  8 15:23:46 2021
From: fred_moore at usa.net (Fred Moore)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2021 20:23:46 -0000
Subject: [GreenKeys] rubber restorer
Message-ID: <838ZBHuwU2816Set.1612815826@web07.cms.usa.net>

Consider having the platen remade entirely by someone like Terry's Rubber
Rollers in Michigan.  email him first to make sure he can re-manufacture
something of this width. -Fred

------ Original Message ------
Received: Mon, 08 Feb 2021 05:59:24 PM GMT
From: WAYNE <teletypeparts at comcast.net>
To: Paul Heller <paul0926 at comcast.net>,	GREENKEYS BULLETIN BOARD
<greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: [Spam] [GreenKeys] rubber restorer

    Hey, after some searching found a source for the Tech Spray rubber
cleaner/rejuvenator.  Same as the bottle I have.  $10.32.

    Mouser.com  
    Mouser Part #
577-1612-2SQ

______________________________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net


From epvgk at limpoc.com  Mon Feb  8 15:52:16 2021
From: epvgk at limpoc.com (eric)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2021 12:52:16 -0800
Subject: [GreenKeys] iTTY and the Volpe USB Interface Board
In-Reply-To: <08fd01d6fd45$be36c700$3aa45500$@gmail.com>
References: <08fd01d6fd45$be36c700$3aa45500$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4e31c192d4cc58ae1dbfc279fa140f64@limpoc.com>

There are two different boards that people are calling the "Volpe board"
which is probably my fault for not giving them actual names. 

The USB-interface one is meant for translating digital data on modern
computers to/from teletype loops. 

The RTTY demodulator one is meant for demodulating an audio FSK stream
(like ITTY) and keying a teletype loop from it.  With this one it's easy
- play the ITTY stream on your computer, phone, or tablet, and connect
the audio output to the board. 

The USB interface board is meant more for teletypes interacting with
software running on computers. That said, it *is* sort of possible to do
it by using software to demodulate the ITTY stream and feed the text
output to the loop via the USB interface board. 

Someone here figured out the commandline for this a while back, but it
needs to run on a Linux computer (might work in WSL - windows subsystem
for linux - on Windows also, but I haven't tried). Also you need the
right packages installed, ie lame, minimodem, and curl: 

curl -N -s http://internet-tty.net:8000/ITTY | lame --decode --quiet
--mp3input - - | minimodem rtty -i -a -q --rx-one -R 11025 -f - >
/dev/ttyACM0 

This is a total hack, though a very clever one, and it'd be a lot easier
to use a hardware demodulator. 

eric 

On 2021-02-07 03:38, Paul Birkel wrote:

> Now that my M19 is approaching a working state (currently fussing with CAR RET bounce/settling and the dashpot)  I'd like to exercise it from an iTTY feed. 
> 
> I have an assembled original (green PCB) Volpe USB interface board. 
> 
> Is ttyBash (https://teletype.net/display/TEL/ttyBash) coupled with fldigi (http://www.w1hkj.com/) the standard/only software path to connect-the-dots?  Any alternatives that I should be considering? 
> 
> Does anyone have any specific experience establishing a feed from iTTY via the Volpe board that they can share? 
> 
> Thank you, 
> 
> paul 
> 
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> 
> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to epvgk at limpoc.com
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From kwlueck at swbell.net  Mon Feb  8 15:57:19 2021
From: kwlueck at swbell.net (Keith Lueck)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2021 20:57:19 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [GreenKeys] rubber restorer
In-Reply-To: <838ZBHuwU2816Set.1612815826@web07.cms.usa.net>
References: <838ZBHuwU2816Set.1612815826@web07.cms.usa.net>
Message-ID: <2092791653.3150664.1612817839686@mail.yahoo.com>

 I had JJ Short Associates restore the platen of my 15.? They did a fine job.? I think extracting the 15 platen would be a lot easier than getting one out of my 33...??
Custom Molded Rubber and Roller Manufacturer - Baler Rubber Rollers, Compression Molding, Custom Mixing Buna N, Custom Mixing Butyl, Custom Mixing EPDM, Custom Mixing Natural Rubber, Custom Mixing Neoprene, Custom Mixing Silicone, Custom Mixing Ureth


| 
| 
| 
|  |  |

 |

 |
| 
|  | 
Custom Molded Rubber and Roller Manufacturer - Baler Rubber Rollers, Com...

J.J. Short Associates, Inc. is a Custom Molded Rubber and Roller Manufacturer that can help you with Custom Mold...
 |

 |

 |




    On Monday, February 8, 2021, 02:24:04 PM CST, Fred Moore <fred_moore at usa.net> wrote:  
 
 Consider having the platen remade entirely by someone like Terry's Rubber
Rollers in Michigan.? email him first to make sure he can re-manufacture
something of this width. -Fred

------ Original Message ------
Received: Mon, 08 Feb 2021 05:59:24 PM GMT
From: WAYNE <teletypeparts at comcast.net>
To: Paul Heller <paul0926 at comcast.net>,??? GREENKEYS BULLETIN BOARD
<greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: [Spam] [GreenKeys] rubber restorer

? ? Hey, after some searching found a source for the Tech Spray rubber
cleaner/rejuvenator.? Same as the bottle I have.? $10.32.

? ? Mouser.com? 
? ? Mouser Part #
577-1612-2SQ

______________________________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net

______________________________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net

>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to kwlueck at swbell.net
  
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From epvgk at limpoc.com  Mon Feb  8 15:59:35 2021
From: epvgk at limpoc.com (eric)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2021 12:59:35 -0800
Subject: [GreenKeys] iTTY and the Volpe USB Interface Board
In-Reply-To: <0aaf01d6fe04$4875c3d0$d9614b70$@gmail.com>
References: <08fd01d6fd45$be36c700$3aa45500$@gmail.com>
	<01f101d6fd59$bd67c720$38375560$@gmail.com>
	<0aaf01d6fe04$4875c3d0$d9614b70$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56f4946816093b5b43be1b449aa633f2@limpoc.com>

On 2021-02-08 02:22, Paul Birkel wrote:

> In the meantime, has anyone set up a simple mechanism on Windows to read a stream of characters from a file and feed the Volpe USB Interface Board?  That would be sufficient to meet my immediate stimulate-and-test the M19 objective.  Sounds like a Unix pipe to me ? so Ubuntu running on WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux) with Win10 seems like a doable do.  But perhaps I'm being na?ve here!

"copy file.txt com2:" (or whatever com device it is) should work if the
file isn't too big. 

There have been a bunch of different software projects that aim to do
more interesting things with it than just copy files.  The one I wrote
and use is at https://github.com/epvuc/loop-gateway 

I haven't tried it in WSL but it could very well work. When I get a
chance I'll give it a try. 

There's also John Nagle's BaudotRSS at
https://github.com/John-Nagle/baudotrss which does similar things. 

 HeavyMetal, I think, hasn't been maintained in years, but used to work
similarly.  

I'm sure I'm leaving a few out - if you've written something like this
please let us know! 

eric
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From john at toebes.com  Mon Feb  8 16:18:43 2021
From: john at toebes.com (john at toebes.com)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2021 16:18:43 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] rubber restorer
In-Reply-To: <2092791653.3150664.1612817839686@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <838ZBHuwU2816Set.1612815826@web07.cms.usa.net>
	<2092791653.3150664.1612817839686@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <04e301d6fe5f$fb3a2b90$f1ae82b0$@toebes.com>

Keith, 

  Would you care to share the ballpark price they charged for restoring a platen?

 

  ? John Toebes

 

From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net <greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net> On Behalf Of Keith Lueck
Sent: Monday, February 8, 2021 3:57 PM
To: WAYNE <teletypeparts at comcast.net>; Paul Heller <paul0926 at comcast.net>; GREENKEYS BULLETIN BOARD <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>; Fred Moore <fred_moore at usa.net>
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] rubber restorer

 

I had JJ Short Associates restore the platen of my 15.  They did a fine job.  I think extracting the 15 platen would be a lot easier than getting one out of my 33...  

 

Custom Molded Rubber and Roller Manufacturer - Baler Rubber Rollers, Compression Molding, Custom Mixing Buna N, Custom Mixing Butyl, Custom Mixing EPDM, Custom Mixing Natural Rubber, Custom Mixing Neoprene, Custom Mixing Silicone, Custom Mixing Ureth <https://www.jjshort.com/index.php> 

 




	
		
 






	

Custom Molded Rubber and Roller Manufacturer - Baler Rubber Rollers, Com...


J.J. Short Associates, Inc. is a Custom Molded Rubber and Roller Manufacturer that can help you with Custom Mold...

 

 

 

On Monday, February 8, 2021, 02:24:04 PM CST, Fred Moore <fred_moore at usa.net <mailto:fred_moore at usa.net> > wrote: 

 

 

Consider having the platen remade entirely by someone like Terry's Rubber

Rollers in Michigan.  email him first to make sure he can re-manufacture

something of this width. -Fred

 

------ Original Message ------

Received: Mon, 08 Feb 2021 05:59:24 PM GMT

From: WAYNE <teletypeparts at comcast.net <mailto:teletypeparts at comcast.net> >

To: Paul Heller <paul0926 at comcast.net <mailto:paul0926 at comcast.net> >,    GREENKEYS BULLETIN BOARD

<greenkeys at mailman.qth.net <mailto:greenkeys at mailman.qth.net> >

Subject: [Spam] [GreenKeys] rubber restorer

 

    Hey, after some searching found a source for the Tech Spray rubber

cleaner/rejuvenator.  Same as the bottle I have.  $10.32.

 

    Mouser.com  

    Mouser Part #

577-1612-2SQ

 

______________________________________________________________

GreenKeys mailing list

Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm

Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net <mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net> 

 

______________________________________________________________

GreenKeys mailing list

Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm

Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net <mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net> 

 

>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch

>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/

>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html

>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html

 

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net

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From 1oldlens1 at ix.netcom.com  Mon Feb  8 16:54:28 2021
From: 1oldlens1 at ix.netcom.com (Richard Knoppow)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2021 13:54:28 -0800
Subject: [GreenKeys] rubber restorer
In-Reply-To: <04e301d6fe5f$fb3a2b90$f1ae82b0$@toebes.com>
References: <838ZBHuwU2816Set.1612815826@web07.cms.usa.net>
	<2092791653.3150664.1612817839686@mail.yahoo.com>
	<04e301d6fe5f$fb3a2b90$f1ae82b0$@toebes.com>
Message-ID: <416a3529-d326-4293-aa40-58d92019f50f@ix.netcom.com>

 ?? FWIW J.J.Short has an excellent reputation among the 
typewriter collectors. I can't help with price but they seem to 
get a lot of business so it can't be too bad,

On 2/8/2021 1:18 PM, john at toebes.com wrote:
>
> Keith,
>
> ??Would you care to share the ballpark price they charged for 
> restoring a platen?
>
> ? John Toebes
>
> *From:*greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net 
> <greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net> *On Behalf Of *Keith Lueck
> *Sent:* Monday, February 8, 2021 3:57 PM
> *To:* WAYNE <teletypeparts at comcast.net>; Paul Heller 
> <paul0926 at comcast.net>; GREENKEYS BULLETIN BOARD 
> <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>; Fred Moore <fred_moore at usa.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [GreenKeys] rubber restorer
>
> I had JJ Short Associates restore the platen of my 15. They did 
> a fine job.? I think extracting the 15 platen would be a lot 
> easier than getting one out of my 33...
>
> Custom Molded Rubber and Roller Manufacturer - Baler Rubber 
> Rollers, Compression Molding, Custom Mixing Buna N, Custom 
> Mixing Butyl, Custom Mixing EPDM, Custom Mixing Natural Rubber, 
> Custom Mixing Neoprene, Custom Mixing Silicone, Custom Mixing 
> Ureth <https://www.jjshort.com/index.php>
>
>
>
> 	
>
>
>
> 	
>
>
>     Custom Molded Rubber and Roller Manufacturer - Baler Rubber
>     Rollers, Com...
>
> J.J. Short Associates, Inc. is a Custom Molded Rubber and 
> Roller Manufacturer that can help you with Custom Mold...
>
> On Monday, February 8, 2021, 02:24:04 PM CST, Fred Moore 
> <fred_moore at usa.net <mailto:fred_moore at usa.net>> wrote:
>
> Consider having the platen remade entirely by someone like 
> Terry's Rubber
>
> Rollers in Michigan.? email him first to make sure he can 
> re-manufacture
>
> something of this width. -Fred
>
> ------ Original Message ------
>
> Received: Mon, 08 Feb 2021 05:59:24 PM GMT
>
> From: WAYNE <teletypeparts at comcast.net 
> <mailto:teletypeparts at comcast.net>>
>
> To: Paul Heller <paul0926 at comcast.net 
> <mailto:paul0926 at comcast.net>>, GREENKEYS BULLETIN BOARD
>
> <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net <mailto:greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>>
>
> Subject: [Spam] [GreenKeys] rubber restorer
>
> ? Hey, after some searching found a source for the Tech Spray 
> rubber
>
> cleaner/rejuvenator. Same as the bottle I have.? $10.32.
>
> ? Mouser.com
>
> ? Mouser Part #
>
> 577-1612-2SQ
>
> ______________________________________________________________
>
> GreenKeys mailing list
>
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys 
> <http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys>
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm 
> <http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm>
>
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net 
> <mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
>
> GreenKeys mailing list
>
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys 
> <http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys>
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm 
> <http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm>
>
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net 
> <mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net>
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: 
> https://teletype.net/gksearch <https://teletype.net/gksearch>
>
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: 
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/ 
> <http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/>
>
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: 
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html 
> <http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html>
>
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: 
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html 
> <http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html>
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net <http://www.qsl.net>
>
> Please help support this email list: 
> http://www.qsl.net/donate.html <http://www.qsl.net/donate.html>
>
> Message delivered to kwlueck at swbell.net <mailto:kwlueck at swbell.net>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to 1oldlens1 at ix.netcom.com

-- 
Richard Knoppow
1oldlens1 at ix.netcom.com
WB6KBL


From steve.n4tty at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 17:27:39 2021
From: steve.n4tty at gmail.com (Steve Garrison)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2021 17:27:39 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] iTTY and the Volpe USB Interface Board
In-Reply-To: <4e31c192d4cc58ae1dbfc279fa140f64@limpoc.com>
References: <08fd01d6fd45$be36c700$3aa45500$@gmail.com>
	<4e31c192d4cc58ae1dbfc279fa140f64@limpoc.com>
Message-ID: <045e01d6fe69$9c852140$d58f63c0$@gmail.com>

I always use Volpe Demod for one and Volpe USB for the other.  Some use Version 1 and Version 2, but I always think of different versions of the same board with maybe minor differences.

 

Steve G./N4TTY

 

P.S.  And I have helped Eric assemble a good number of the Demod boards in the past and will have a KiCad version soon.  I?ll probably leave the Version 1 intact but add an A, B, C, etc if I make minor changes.  First one will be Version 1A.

 

From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net <greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net> On Behalf Of eric
Sent: Monday, February 8, 2021 3:52 PM
To: Paul Birkel <pbirkel at gmail.com>
Cc: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] iTTY and the Volpe USB Interface Board

 

There are two different boards that people are calling the "Volpe board" which is probably my fault for not giving them actual names. 

The USB-interface one is meant for translating digital data on modern computers to/from teletype loops. 

The RTTY demodulator one is meant for demodulating an audio FSK stream (like ITTY) and keying a teletype loop from it.  With this one it's easy - play the ITTY stream on your computer, phone, or tablet, and connect the audio output to the board. 

The USB interface board is meant more for teletypes interacting with software running on computers. That said, it *is* sort of possible to do it by using software to demodulate the ITTY stream and feed the text output to the loop via the USB interface board. 

Someone here figured out the commandline for this a while back, but it needs to run on a Linux computer (might work in WSL - windows subsystem for linux - on Windows also, but I haven't tried). Also you need the right packages installed, ie lame, minimodem, and curl:

curl -N -s http://internet-tty.net:8000/ITTY | lame --decode --quiet --mp3input - - | minimodem rtty -i -a -q --rx-one -R 11025 -f - > /dev/ttyACM0

This is a total hack, though a very clever one, and it'd be a lot easier to use a hardware demodulator.

eric

On 2021-02-07 03:38, Paul Birkel wrote:

Now that my M19 is approaching a working state (currently fussing with CAR RET bounce/settling and the dashpot)  I?d like to exercise it from an iTTY feed.

 

I have an assembled original (green PCB) Volpe USB interface board.

 

Is ttyBash (https://teletype.net/display/TEL/ttyBash) coupled with fldigi (http://www.w1hkj.com/) the standard/only software path to connect-the-dots?  Any alternatives that I should be considering?

 

Does anyone have any specific experience establishing a feed from iTTY via the Volpe board that they can share?

 

Thank you,

paul

 

 

 

______________________________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net <mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net> 




Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html


This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to epvgk at limpoc.com <mailto:epvgk at limpoc.com> 

 

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From epvgk at limpoc.com  Mon Feb  8 17:33:43 2021
From: epvgk at limpoc.com (Eric)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2021 14:33:43 -0800
Subject: [GreenKeys] iTTY and the Volpe USB Interface Board
In-Reply-To: <045e01d6fe69$9c852140$d58f63c0$@gmail.com>
References: <08fd01d6fd45$be36c700$3aa45500$@gmail.com>
	<4e31c192d4cc58ae1dbfc279fa140f64@limpoc.com>
	<045e01d6fe69$9c852140$d58f63c0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D2D0D09D-F0AC-4E6E-B406-62B1FA99EC81@limpoc.com>

I'm curious if the 2211 chips from China work okay. I suppose at some point I'll need to redesign around some other part or just do it digitally but if there's a supply of 2211's still around we may as well keep using them.

On February 8, 2021 2:27:39 PM PST, Steve Garrison <steve.n4tty at gmail.com> wrote:
>I always use Volpe Demod for one and Volpe USB for the other.  Some use
>Version 1 and Version 2, but I always think of different versions of
>the same board with maybe minor differences.
>
> 
>
>Steve G./N4TTY
>
> 
>
>P.S.  And I have helped Eric assemble a good number of the Demod boards
>in the past and will have a KiCad version soon.  I?ll probably leave
>the Version 1 intact but add an A, B, C, etc if I make minor changes. 
>First one will be Version 1A.
>
> 
>
>From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net
><greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net> On Behalf Of eric
>Sent: Monday, February 8, 2021 3:52 PM
>To: Paul Birkel <pbirkel at gmail.com>
>Cc: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
>Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] iTTY and the Volpe USB Interface Board
>
> 
>
>There are two different boards that people are calling the "Volpe
>board" which is probably my fault for not giving them actual names. 
>
>The USB-interface one is meant for translating digital data on modern
>computers to/from teletype loops. 
>
>The RTTY demodulator one is meant for demodulating an audio FSK stream
>(like ITTY) and keying a teletype loop from it.  With this one it's
>easy - play the ITTY stream on your computer, phone, or tablet, and
>connect the audio output to the board. 
>
>The USB interface board is meant more for teletypes interacting with
>software running on computers. That said, it *is* sort of possible to
>do it by using software to demodulate the ITTY stream and feed the text
>output to the loop via the USB interface board. 
>
>Someone here figured out the commandline for this a while back, but it
>needs to run on a Linux computer (might work in WSL - windows subsystem
>for linux - on Windows also, but I haven't tried). Also you need the
>right packages installed, ie lame, minimodem, and curl:
>
>curl -N -s http://internet-tty.net:8000/ITTY | lame --decode --quiet
>--mp3input - - | minimodem rtty -i -a -q --rx-one -R 11025 -f - >
>/dev/ttyACM0
>
>This is a total hack, though a very clever one, and it'd be a lot
>easier to use a hardware demodulator.
>
>eric
>
>On 2021-02-07 03:38, Paul Birkel wrote:
>
>Now that my M19 is approaching a working state (currently fussing with
>CAR RET bounce/settling and the dashpot)  I?d like to exercise it from
>an iTTY feed.
>
> 
>
>I have an assembled original (green PCB) Volpe USB interface board.
>
> 
>
>Is ttyBash (https://teletype.net/display/TEL/ttyBash) coupled with
>fldigi (http://www.w1hkj.com/) the standard/only software path to
>connect-the-dots?  Any alternatives that I should be considering?
>
> 
>
>Does anyone have any specific experience establishing a feed from iTTY
>via the Volpe board that they can share?
>
> 
>
>Thank you,
>
>paul
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
>______________________________________________________________
>GreenKeys mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
><mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net> 
>
>
>
>
>Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>https://teletype.net/gksearch
>2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>Message delivered to epvgk at limpoc.com <mailto:epvgk at limpoc.com> 
>
> 

From steve.n4tty at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 17:36:54 2021
From: steve.n4tty at gmail.com (Steve Garrison)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2021 17:36:54 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] iTTY and the Volpe USB Interface Board
In-Reply-To: <D2D0D09D-F0AC-4E6E-B406-62B1FA99EC81@limpoc.com>
References: <08fd01d6fd45$be36c700$3aa45500$@gmail.com>
	<4e31c192d4cc58ae1dbfc279fa140f64@limpoc.com>
	<045e01d6fe69$9c852140$d58f63c0$@gmail.com>
	<D2D0D09D-F0AC-4E6E-B406-62B1FA99EC81@limpoc.com>
Message-ID: <049301d6fe6a$e7431510$b5c93f30$@gmail.com>

As soon as I can get a board in my hands I'll let all of you know how they work out.

Steve G./N4TTY

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric <epvgk at limpoc.com> 
Sent: Monday, February 8, 2021 5:34 PM
To: N4TTY at ARRL.NET; Steve Garrison <steve.n4tty at gmail.com>; 'Paul Birkel' <pbirkel at gmail.com>
Cc: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: RE: [GreenKeys] iTTY and the Volpe USB Interface Board

I'm curious if the 2211 chips from China work okay. I suppose at some point I'll need to redesign around some other part or just do it digitally but if there's a supply of 2211's still around we may as well keep using them.

On February 8, 2021 2:27:39 PM PST, Steve Garrison <steve.n4tty at gmail.com> wrote:
>I always use Volpe Demod for one and Volpe USB for the other.  Some use 
>Version 1 and Version 2, but I always think of different versions of 
>the same board with maybe minor differences.
>
> 
>
>Steve G./N4TTY
>
> 
>
>P.S.  And I have helped Eric assemble a good number of the Demod boards 
>in the past and will have a KiCad version soon.  I?ll probably leave 
>the Version 1 intact but add an A, B, C, etc if I make minor changes.
>First one will be Version 1A.
>
> 
>
>From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net 
><greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net> On Behalf Of eric
>Sent: Monday, February 8, 2021 3:52 PM
>To: Paul Birkel <pbirkel at gmail.com>
>Cc: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
>Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] iTTY and the Volpe USB Interface Board
>
> 
>
>There are two different boards that people are calling the "Volpe 
>board" which is probably my fault for not giving them actual names.
>
>The USB-interface one is meant for translating digital data on modern 
>computers to/from teletype loops.
>
>The RTTY demodulator one is meant for demodulating an audio FSK stream 
>(like ITTY) and keying a teletype loop from it.  With this one it's 
>easy - play the ITTY stream on your computer, phone, or tablet, and 
>connect the audio output to the board.
>
>The USB interface board is meant more for teletypes interacting with 
>software running on computers. That said, it *is* sort of possible to 
>do it by using software to demodulate the ITTY stream and feed the text 
>output to the loop via the USB interface board.
>
>Someone here figured out the commandline for this a while back, but it 
>needs to run on a Linux computer (might work in WSL - windows subsystem 
>for linux - on Windows also, but I haven't tried). Also you need the 
>right packages installed, ie lame, minimodem, and curl:
>
>curl -N -s http://internet-tty.net:8000/ITTY | lame --decode --quiet 
>--mp3input - - | minimodem rtty -i -a -q --rx-one -R 11025 -f - >
>/dev/ttyACM0
>
>This is a total hack, though a very clever one, and it'd be a lot 
>easier to use a hardware demodulator.
>
>eric
>
>On 2021-02-07 03:38, Paul Birkel wrote:
>
>Now that my M19 is approaching a working state (currently fussing with 
>CAR RET bounce/settling and the dashpot)  I?d like to exercise it from 
>an iTTY feed.
>
> 
>
>I have an assembled original (green PCB) Volpe USB interface board.
>
> 
>
>Is ttyBash (https://teletype.net/display/TEL/ttyBash) coupled with 
>fldigi (http://www.w1hkj.com/) the standard/only software path to 
>connect-the-dots?  Any alternatives that I should be considering?
>
> 
>
>Does anyone have any specific experience establishing a feed from iTTY 
>via the Volpe board that they can share?
>
> 
>
>Thank you,
>
>paul
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
>______________________________________________________________
>GreenKeys mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
><mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net>
>
>
>
>
>Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>https://teletype.net/gksearch
>2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email 
>list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to 
>epvgk at limpoc.com <mailto:epvgk at limpoc.com>
>
> 


From dennis.hanley at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 18:21:38 2021
From: dennis.hanley at gmail.com (Dennis Hanley)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2021 15:21:38 -0800
Subject: [GreenKeys] iTTY and the Volpe USB Interface Board
In-Reply-To: <D2D0D09D-F0AC-4E6E-B406-62B1FA99EC81@limpoc.com>
References: <08fd01d6fd45$be36c700$3aa45500$@gmail.com>
	<4e31c192d4cc58ae1dbfc279fa140f64@limpoc.com>
	<045e01d6fe69$9c852140$d58f63c0$@gmail.com>
	<D2D0D09D-F0AC-4E6E-B406-62B1FA99EC81@limpoc.com>
Message-ID: <CAPyDOHRxJ2DJOXNqBbaMRbbg8gTgZRy77CR2iB4ESHxNAz31zw@mail.gmail.com>

I just bought a couple of 2211's from Jameco for $3.99 each.

I'm hoping PC boards become available, but if not, I'm planning on using
perf board and "ugly" method...

Fingers crossed!

Dennis Hanley, KB6C



On Mon, Feb 8, 2021 at 2:34 PM Eric <epvgk at limpoc.com> wrote:

> I'm curious if the 2211 chips from China work okay. I suppose at some
> point I'll need to redesign around some other part or just do it digitally
> but if there's a supply of 2211's still around we may as well keep using
> them.
>
> On February 8, 2021 2:27:39 PM PST, Steve Garrison <steve.n4tty at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >I always use Volpe Demod for one and Volpe USB for the other.  Some use
> >Version 1 and Version 2, but I always think of different versions of
> >the same board with maybe minor differences.
> >
> >
> >
> >Steve G./N4TTY
> >
> >
> >
> >P.S.  And I have helped Eric assemble a good number of the Demod boards
> >in the past and will have a KiCad version soon.  I?ll probably leave
> >the Version 1 intact but add an A, B, C, etc if I make minor changes.
> >First one will be Version 1A.
> >
> >
> >
> >From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net
> ><greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net> On Behalf Of eric
> >Sent: Monday, February 8, 2021 3:52 PM
> >To: Paul Birkel <pbirkel at gmail.com>
> >Cc: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
> >Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] iTTY and the Volpe USB Interface Board
> >
> >
> >
> >There are two different boards that people are calling the "Volpe
> >board" which is probably my fault for not giving them actual names.
> >
> >The USB-interface one is meant for translating digital data on modern
> >computers to/from teletype loops.
> >
> >The RTTY demodulator one is meant for demodulating an audio FSK stream
> >(like ITTY) and keying a teletype loop from it.  With this one it's
> >easy - play the ITTY stream on your computer, phone, or tablet, and
> >connect the audio output to the board.
> >
> >The USB interface board is meant more for teletypes interacting with
> >software running on computers. That said, it *is* sort of possible to
> >do it by using software to demodulate the ITTY stream and feed the text
> >output to the loop via the USB interface board.
> >
> >Someone here figured out the commandline for this a while back, but it
> >needs to run on a Linux computer (might work in WSL - windows subsystem
> >for linux - on Windows also, but I haven't tried). Also you need the
> >right packages installed, ie lame, minimodem, and curl:
> >
> >curl -N -s http://internet-tty.net:8000/ITTY | lame --decode --quiet
> >--mp3input - - | minimodem rtty -i -a -q --rx-one -R 11025 -f - >
> >/dev/ttyACM0
> >
> >This is a total hack, though a very clever one, and it'd be a lot
> >easier to use a hardware demodulator.
> >
> >eric
> >
> >On 2021-02-07 03:38, Paul Birkel wrote:
> >
> >Now that my M19 is approaching a working state (currently fussing with
> >CAR RET bounce/settling and the dashpot)  I?d like to exercise it from
> >an iTTY feed.
> >
> >
> >
> >I have an assembled original (green PCB) Volpe USB interface board.
> >
> >
> >
> >Is ttyBash (https://teletype.net/display/TEL/ttyBash) coupled with
> >fldigi (http://www.w1hkj.com/) the standard/only software path to
> >connect-the-dots?  Any alternatives that I should be considering?
> >
> >
> >
> >Does anyone have any specific experience establishing a feed from iTTY
> >via the Volpe board that they can share?
> >
> >
> >
> >Thank you,
> >
> >paul
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >______________________________________________________________
> >GreenKeys mailing list
> >Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> ><mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> >https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> >http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> >http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> >http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> >
> >
> >This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >Message delivered to epvgk at limpoc.com <mailto:epvgk at limpoc.com>
> >
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to dennis.hanley at gmail.com
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From vk2bea at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 22:38:25 2021
From: vk2bea at gmail.com (Michael Katzmann)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2021 22:38:25 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Equivalents for KS7470 oil and KS7471 grease
Message-ID: <CAMyt5OSWP62Loj0z_Ok7w3Rv=xYkn_JQpiUEDLn7DOFJNHWHJA@mail.gmail.com>

Now come the fun part of lubricating the beast ...
What are modern options for the Teletype KS7470 oil and KS7471 grease ?
I found this page
(https://homepage.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/pdp8/UI-8/ks7470oil.shtml) but
many of the links are broken, so it's probably a few years old.

What are good applicators for the oil (to get to those deep buried spots) ?


-- 
Michael - NV3Z / VK2BEA / G4NYV

From hanyou at xsmail.com  Tue Feb  9 04:01:56 2021
From: hanyou at xsmail.com (E.)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2021 03:01:56 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] iTTY and the Volpe USB Interface Board
In-Reply-To: <CAPyDOHRxJ2DJOXNqBbaMRbbg8gTgZRy77CR2iB4ESHxNAz31zw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <08fd01d6fd45$be36c700$3aa45500$@gmail.com>
	<4e31c192d4cc58ae1dbfc279fa140f64@limpoc.com>
	<045e01d6fe69$9c852140$d58f63c0$@gmail.com>
	<D2D0D09D-F0AC-4E6E-B406-62B1FA99EC81@limpoc.com>
	<CAPyDOHRxJ2DJOXNqBbaMRbbg8gTgZRy77CR2iB4ESHxNAz31zw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AD6BDECC-1650-450C-A38F-910C9622E384@xsmail.com>


Jordan Spencer Cunningham - QSL?

From douglas-w-jones at uiowa.edu  Tue Feb  9 12:35:36 2021
From: douglas-w-jones at uiowa.edu (Jones, Douglas W)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2021 17:35:36 +0000
Subject: [GreenKeys] [External] Equivalents for KS7470 oil and KS7471
 grease
In-Reply-To: <CAMyt5OSWP62Loj0z_Ok7w3Rv=xYkn_JQpiUEDLn7DOFJNHWHJA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMyt5OSWP62Loj0z_Ok7w3Rv=xYkn_JQpiUEDLn7DOFJNHWHJA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BL0PR04MB4994107FC7510EB545050403A88E9@BL0PR04MB4994.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>

From: Michael Katzmann [vk2bea at gmail.com]

> I found this page (https://homepage.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/pdp8/UI-8/ks7470oil.shtml) but
> many of the links are broken, so it's probably a few years old.

Thanks for the reminder.  I put in some time with Google and the wayback machine and tried to restore many of the links.  Not done with the grease yet, but most of the products discussed are certainly still available.  Bless the manufacturers for moving their stuff around on the web and breaking the links.

        Doug Jones
        jones at cs.uiowa.edu

From kn4ucl at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 13:20:41 2021
From: kn4ucl at gmail.com (Andy KN4UCL)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2021 13:20:41 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] UPDATE- shockingly basic question - Teletype Model 33
	ASR
In-Reply-To: <CA+H6KC=jKmB2VN7GWMx0Yot7YunHpWNG=i5111yncACKaYHgPA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B89CF151-3196-4D55-A45D-B426569310B6@gmail.com>
	<C2BFE42A-19EA-46EF-AFF2-2474709B1C72@yahoo.com>
	<CA+H6KC=jKmB2VN7GWMx0Yot7YunHpWNG=i5111yncACKaYHgPA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+H6KCkDs4NKNSEHNbG=CBDfxBnXZ1tQdW4sJQ-x1ZjFaA7kBQ@mail.gmail.com>

Well I was hoping that it was either my serial loop adapter acting up, or a
cabling-from-serial-converter-to-terminal-server problem.  I've replaced
everything (including the terminal server) but sadly no obvious fix.

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-w-HCXI25E

I've got two similar 33s (both no parity keyboards) and I've had them both
running at the same time connected to my terminal server for a while now.
Recently I get very garbled data on one of them. It doesn't seem to be
related to the connected equipment or cabling as I've replaced everything.

Then... very weirdly it starts working again, as you can see  at 1:42s on
the video.

Apart from fiddling about with the rangefinder, any other thoughts about
(simple ?) tests or adjustments I can make to diagnose this?

thanks folks.
Andy

On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 3:33 PM Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:

> OK well this is all very embarrassing. I have two almost identical 33s
> (both non-parity) .... the other one works great connected to my Terminal
> Server so thought I'd better  swap the RS232 Adapters, port and cable.. and
> hey presto - my "not working due to parity errors" Teletype started running
> fine!
>
> I then swapped back to the original RS232 adapter, cables and port...
> expecting things to NOT work... but of course, everything ran fine (sigh.)
>
> I've tried jiggling the cables (I was hopeful maybe a weird cable problem
> could be the issue) but I am struggling to see how a wiring problem would
> look like a legit parity problem.
>
> Anyway! All good for now.. but I am curious what would cause these
> parity-like symptoms. I am going to replace the cables anyway, and probably
> grab another RS232 converter just in case.
>
> cheers!
> Andy
>
> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 11:05 PM Mike Douglas <deramp5113 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Since you are concerned about the parity of your keyboard while testing
>> the TTY printing function, I assume your terminal server is in a mode where
>> it echos characters that you type on the TTY keyboard back out to the TTY
>> printer and you are testing your printer by typing on the TTY keyboard?
>>
>> If this is what you?re doing and you have a non-parity keyboard, then set
>> the serial port to 7 data bits plus mark parity (non parity keyboards set
>> the 8th bit to one). This should ensure the server accepts the typed
>> characters. If you type one character at a time with a short pause between
>> each character, then each character should echo properly to the TTY
>> printer. The pause between each character will be more than the two stop
>> bits the printer requires (and the printer ignores the 8th bit).
>>
>> If, however, you have a telnet session open and are sending data from a
>> remote device to the TTY printer and are not using the TTY keyboard to
>> generate test data, then set the serial port to 8 data bits plus mark
>> parity. This will appear as 8 data bits and 2 stop bits to the printer (as
>> it requires) and the printer can then keep up with a steady stream of data.
>>
>> If you are getting some garbage characters with either of these methods
>> but everything prints correctly in local mode, you made need to adjust the
>> rangefinder a bit.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 9:22 PM, Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>> My Teletype has a Deramp converter which goes direct into an Equinox
>> ELS-16 terminal server.  When I start I get a session with the terminal
>> server and can interact directly with the server ... or telnet onwards
>> elsewhere.
>>
>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 10:00 PM, Mike Douglas <deramp5113 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>> ?I guess I?m confused as to your test setup then. What is sending data to
>> your Teletype? Is it coming from an external source other than the
>> Teletype, or are you testing by somehow looping keyboard input from your
>> TTY back out to the TTY printer?
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 8:36 PM, Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>> I think I am still missing a trick or two here...I tried every
>> combination of 8 and 7 even/odd/none/mark/space and I get no printing at
>> all with 8 bit, but moderately bad spelling errors with 7.  See attachment
>> below... presumably this means I have the non-parity keyboard?
>>
>> thanks in advance for your thoughts!
>> Andy
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 8:18 PM Mike Douglas <deramp5113 at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> If you select 8 bit with mark parity on your terminal server, you?ll
>>> probably get the 8N2 timing the Teletype requires (the mark parity bit
>>> serves as the first stop bit).
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> On Jan 31, 2021, at 7:11 PM, Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?
>>> Thanks guys for the responses - a lot of great info for me to digest!
>>>
>>> My terminal server (Equinox ELS-16) allows me to define character size
>>> as 7 or 8 bits, and to set parity as NONE, ODD, EVEN, MARK or SPACE.
>>>
>>> I don't seem to have the ability to specifically state the number of
>>> stop bits, however.
>>>
>>> Anyway.. I'm going to crack my Teletype open and confirm exactly what's
>>> going on.
>>> cheers!
>>> Andy
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 5:43 PM Keith Lueck <kwlueck at swbell.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jim & Wayne are spot-on, of course.  I learned the hard way that you
>>>> best include the parity bit - even though the 33 doesn't give a whit about
>>>> parity...
>>>> My machine was occasionally producing errors when I was feeding it 7 N
>>>> 2.  Wayne Durkee set me straight, and, viola, when I sent it 7 M 2,
>>>> everything was 100% ducky.
>>>>
>>>> On Sunday, January 31, 2021, 03:32:30 PM CST, Jim Haynes <
>>>> jhhaynes at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> All the 33s and 35s generate 11 unit code.  1 start bit, 7 data bits,
>>>> one
>>>> bit which may be even parity or may be marking, and two stop bits.
>>>> That's
>>>> where 110 baud comes from. 100 wpm = 10 chars/sec and each char
>>>> contains
>>>> 11 bits.  The reason for two stop bits is the difficulty of making a
>>>> mechanical selector that is reliable at 100 wpm.
>>>>
>>>>     ---
>>>>
>>>>     "Ya can argue all ya wanna, but it's dif'rent than it was."
>>>>     "No it ain't! No it ain't!  But ya gotta know the territory."
>>>>         Meredith Willson, The Music Man
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> GreenKeys mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>>>
>>>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>> Message delivered to kwlueck at swbell.net
>>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> GreenKeys mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>>
>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>
>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>
>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>
>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>>
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to deramp5113 at yahoo.com
>>>
>>> <non parity keyboard.png>
>>
>>
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From vk2bea at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 14:21:21 2021
From: vk2bea at gmail.com (Michael Katzmann)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2021 14:21:21 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] UPDATE- shockingly basic question - Teletype Model
	33 ASR
In-Reply-To: <CA+H6KCkDs4NKNSEHNbG=CBDfxBnXZ1tQdW4sJQ-x1ZjFaA7kBQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B89CF151-3196-4D55-A45D-B426569310B6@gmail.com>
	<C2BFE42A-19EA-46EF-AFF2-2474709B1C72@yahoo.com>
	<CA+H6KC=jKmB2VN7GWMx0Yot7YunHpWNG=i5111yncACKaYHgPA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+H6KCkDs4NKNSEHNbG=CBDfxBnXZ1tQdW4sJQ-x1ZjFaA7kBQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMyt5OQ1h4pRUbQPEhXdNt4bxfoPV0cKnH6s9RGfRvt4fVSFog@mail.gmail.com>

I don't see this as a parity issue. I would expect the ASR33 typing unit to
ignore parity on receive. Although, I think the tape punch will punch the
eighth bit (or parity) if received.
Likewise the tape reader will read and send all eight bits.

Does the ASR read a tape and print consistently in local ?
I'd be suspicious of the RS232 converter. If you have an oscilloscope and
can look at the RS232 input compared with the current loop output it may
prove or dispel this hypothesis.

Michael

On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 1:22 PM Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:

> Well I was hoping that it was either my serial loop adapter acting up, or
> a cabling-from-serial-converter-to-terminal-server problem.  I've replaced
> everything (including the terminal server) but sadly no obvious fix.
>
>    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-w-HCXI25E
>
> I've got two similar 33s (both no parity keyboards) and I've had them both
> running at the same time connected to my terminal server for a while now.
> Recently I get very garbled data on one of them. It doesn't seem to be
> related to the connected equipment or cabling as I've replaced everything.
>
> Then... very weirdly it starts working again, as you can see  at 1:42s on
> the video.
>
> Apart from fiddling about with the rangefinder, any other thoughts about
> (simple ?) tests or adjustments I can make to diagnose this?
>
> thanks folks.
> Andy
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 3:33 PM Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> OK well this is all very embarrassing. I have two almost identical 33s
>> (both non-parity) .... the other one works great connected to my Terminal
>> Server so thought I'd better  swap the RS232 Adapters, port and cable.. and
>> hey presto - my "not working due to parity errors" Teletype started running
>> fine!
>>
>> I then swapped back to the original RS232 adapter, cables and port...
>> expecting things to NOT work... but of course, everything ran fine (sigh.)
>>
>> I've tried jiggling the cables (I was hopeful maybe a weird cable problem
>> could be the issue) but I am struggling to see how a wiring problem would
>> look like a legit parity problem.
>>
>> Anyway! All good for now.. but I am curious what would cause these
>> parity-like symptoms. I am going to replace the cables anyway, and probably
>> grab another RS232 converter just in case.
>>
>> cheers!
>> Andy
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 11:05 PM Mike Douglas <deramp5113 at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Since you are concerned about the parity of your keyboard while testing
>>> the TTY printing function, I assume your terminal server is in a mode where
>>> it echos characters that you type on the TTY keyboard back out to the TTY
>>> printer and you are testing your printer by typing on the TTY keyboard?
>>>
>>> If this is what you?re doing and you have a non-parity keyboard, then
>>> set the serial port to 7 data bits plus mark parity (non parity keyboards
>>> set the 8th bit to one). This should ensure the server accepts the typed
>>> characters. If you type one character at a time with a short pause between
>>> each character, then each character should echo properly to the TTY
>>> printer. The pause between each character will be more than the two stop
>>> bits the printer requires (and the printer ignores the 8th bit).
>>>
>>> If, however, you have a telnet session open and are sending data from a
>>> remote device to the TTY printer and are not using the TTY keyboard to
>>> generate test data, then set the serial port to 8 data bits plus mark
>>> parity. This will appear as 8 data bits and 2 stop bits to the printer (as
>>> it requires) and the printer can then keep up with a steady stream of data.
>>>
>>> If you are getting some garbage characters with either of these methods
>>> but everything prints correctly in local mode, you made need to adjust the
>>> rangefinder a bit.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 9:22 PM, Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?
>>> My Teletype has a Deramp converter which goes direct into an Equinox
>>> ELS-16 terminal server.  When I start I get a session with the terminal
>>> server and can interact directly with the server ... or telnet onwards
>>> elsewhere.
>>>
>>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 10:00 PM, Mike Douglas <deramp5113 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?
>>> ?I guess I?m confused as to your test setup then. What is sending data
>>> to your Teletype? Is it coming from an external source other than the
>>> Teletype, or are you testing by somehow looping keyboard input from your
>>> TTY back out to the TTY printer?
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 8:36 PM, Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?
>>> I think I am still missing a trick or two here...I tried every
>>> combination of 8 and 7 even/odd/none/mark/space and I get no printing at
>>> all with 8 bit, but moderately bad spelling errors with 7.  See attachment
>>> below... presumably this means I have the non-parity keyboard?
>>>
>>> thanks in advance for your thoughts!
>>> Andy
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 8:18 PM Mike Douglas <deramp5113 at yahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> If you select 8 bit with mark parity on your terminal server, you?ll
>>>> probably get the 8N2 timing the Teletype requires (the mark parity bit
>>>> serves as the first stop bit).
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 31, 2021, at 7:11 PM, Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ?
>>>> Thanks guys for the responses - a lot of great info for me to digest!
>>>>
>>>> My terminal server (Equinox ELS-16) allows me to define character size
>>>> as 7 or 8 bits, and to set parity as NONE, ODD, EVEN, MARK or SPACE.
>>>>
>>>> I don't seem to have the ability to specifically state the number of
>>>> stop bits, however.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway.. I'm going to crack my Teletype open and confirm exactly what's
>>>> going on.
>>>> cheers!
>>>> Andy
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 5:43 PM Keith Lueck <kwlueck at swbell.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Jim & Wayne are spot-on, of course.  I learned the hard way that you
>>>>> best include the parity bit - even though the 33 doesn't give a whit about
>>>>> parity...
>>>>> My machine was occasionally producing errors when I was feeding it 7 N
>>>>> 2.  Wayne Durkee set me straight, and, viola, when I sent it 7 M 2,
>>>>> everything was 100% ducky.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sunday, January 31, 2021, 03:32:30 PM CST, Jim Haynes <
>>>>> jhhaynes at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> All the 33s and 35s generate 11 unit code.  1 start bit, 7 data bits,
>>>>> one
>>>>> bit which may be even parity or may be marking, and two stop bits.
>>>>> That's
>>>>> where 110 baud comes from. 100 wpm = 10 chars/sec and each char
>>>>> contains
>>>>> 11 bits.  The reason for two stop bits is the difficulty of making a
>>>>> mechanical selector that is reliable at 100 wpm.
>>>>>
>>>>>     ---
>>>>>
>>>>>     "Ya can argue all ya wanna, but it's dif'rent than it was."
>>>>>     "No it ain't! No it ain't!  But ya gotta know the territory."
>>>>>         Meredith Willson, The Music Man
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>>> GreenKeys mailing list
>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>>>>
>>>>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>>>>
>>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>>> Message delivered to kwlueck at swbell.net
>>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> GreenKeys mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>>>
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>>
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>>
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>>
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>> Message delivered to deramp5113 at yahoo.com
>>>>
>>>> <non parity keyboard.png>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to vk2bea at gmail.com
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From kn4ucl at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 16:53:20 2021
From: kn4ucl at gmail.com (Andy KN4UCL)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2021 16:53:20 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] UPDATE- shockingly basic question - Teletype Model
	33 ASR
In-Reply-To: <CAMyt5OQ1h4pRUbQPEhXdNt4bxfoPV0cKnH6s9RGfRvt4fVSFog@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B89CF151-3196-4D55-A45D-B426569310B6@gmail.com>
	<C2BFE42A-19EA-46EF-AFF2-2474709B1C72@yahoo.com>
	<CA+H6KC=jKmB2VN7GWMx0Yot7YunHpWNG=i5111yncACKaYHgPA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+H6KCkDs4NKNSEHNbG=CBDfxBnXZ1tQdW4sJQ-x1ZjFaA7kBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMyt5OQ1h4pRUbQPEhXdNt4bxfoPV0cKnH6s9RGfRvt4fVSFog@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+H6KCmYH+T1apcMb4GNr3--aQyEzDATESL=fz7jDmB3_KKy=Q@mail.gmail.com>

So RIGHT NOW the machine is running great, just like in the video from
1:42s  onwards.  It also prints perfectly in Local mode as well right now,
no matter how fast I try to type.

However - it will intermittently go back to garbage output, as is shown
prior to 1:42s in the video.

When I was testing in Local last night it was OK typing slowly, but typing
a little fast caused garbage output.

So I think the terminal is intermittently behaving badly, in LIne and Local.

But.. of course... right now it is behaving itself!

cheers
Andy



On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 2:21 PM Michael Katzmann <vk2bea at gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't see this as a parity issue. I would expect the ASR33 typing unit
> to ignore parity on receive. Although, I think the tape punch will punch
> the eighth bit (or parity) if received.
> Likewise the tape reader will read and send all eight bits.
>
> Does the ASR read a tape and print consistently in local ?
> I'd be suspicious of the RS232 converter. If you have an oscilloscope and
> can look at the RS232 input compared with the current loop output it may
> prove or dispel this hypothesis.
>
> Michael
>
> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 1:22 PM Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Well I was hoping that it was either my serial loop adapter acting up, or
>> a cabling-from-serial-converter-to-terminal-server problem.  I've replaced
>> everything (including the terminal server) but sadly no obvious fix.
>>
>>    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-w-HCXI25E
>>
>> I've got two similar 33s (both no parity keyboards) and I've had them
>> both running at the same time connected to my terminal server for a while
>> now.  Recently I get very garbled data on one of them. It doesn't seem to
>> be related to the connected equipment or cabling as I've replaced
>> everything.
>>
>> Then... very weirdly it starts working again, as you can see  at 1:42s on
>> the video.
>>
>> Apart from fiddling about with the rangefinder, any other thoughts about
>> (simple ?) tests or adjustments I can make to diagnose this?
>>
>> thanks folks.
>> Andy
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 3:33 PM Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> OK well this is all very embarrassing. I have two almost identical 33s
>>> (both non-parity) .... the other one works great connected to my Terminal
>>> Server so thought I'd better  swap the RS232 Adapters, port and cable.. and
>>> hey presto - my "not working due to parity errors" Teletype started running
>>> fine!
>>>
>>> I then swapped back to the original RS232 adapter, cables and port...
>>> expecting things to NOT work... but of course, everything ran fine (sigh.)
>>>
>>> I've tried jiggling the cables (I was hopeful maybe a weird cable
>>> problem could be the issue) but I am struggling to see how a wiring problem
>>> would look like a legit parity problem.
>>>
>>> Anyway! All good for now.. but I am curious what would cause these
>>> parity-like symptoms. I am going to replace the cables anyway, and probably
>>> grab another RS232 converter just in case.
>>>
>>> cheers!
>>> Andy
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 11:05 PM Mike Douglas <deramp5113 at yahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Since you are concerned about the parity of your keyboard while testing
>>>> the TTY printing function, I assume your terminal server is in a mode where
>>>> it echos characters that you type on the TTY keyboard back out to the TTY
>>>> printer and you are testing your printer by typing on the TTY keyboard?
>>>>
>>>> If this is what you?re doing and you have a non-parity keyboard, then
>>>> set the serial port to 7 data bits plus mark parity (non parity keyboards
>>>> set the 8th bit to one). This should ensure the server accepts the typed
>>>> characters. If you type one character at a time with a short pause between
>>>> each character, then each character should echo properly to the TTY
>>>> printer. The pause between each character will be more than the two stop
>>>> bits the printer requires (and the printer ignores the 8th bit).
>>>>
>>>> If, however, you have a telnet session open and are sending data from a
>>>> remote device to the TTY printer and are not using the TTY keyboard to
>>>> generate test data, then set the serial port to 8 data bits plus mark
>>>> parity. This will appear as 8 data bits and 2 stop bits to the printer (as
>>>> it requires) and the printer can then keep up with a steady stream of data.
>>>>
>>>> If you are getting some garbage characters with either of these methods
>>>> but everything prints correctly in local mode, you made need to adjust the
>>>> rangefinder a bit.
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 9:22 PM, Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ?
>>>> My Teletype has a Deramp converter which goes direct into an Equinox
>>>> ELS-16 terminal server.  When I start I get a session with the terminal
>>>> server and can interact directly with the server ... or telnet onwards
>>>> elsewhere.
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 10:00 PM, Mike Douglas <deramp5113 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ?
>>>> ?I guess I?m confused as to your test setup then. What is sending data
>>>> to your Teletype? Is it coming from an external source other than the
>>>> Teletype, or are you testing by somehow looping keyboard input from your
>>>> TTY back out to the TTY printer?
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 8:36 PM, Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ?
>>>> I think I am still missing a trick or two here...I tried every
>>>> combination of 8 and 7 even/odd/none/mark/space and I get no printing at
>>>> all with 8 bit, but moderately bad spelling errors with 7.  See attachment
>>>> below... presumably this means I have the non-parity keyboard?
>>>>
>>>> thanks in advance for your thoughts!
>>>> Andy
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 8:18 PM Mike Douglas <deramp5113 at yahoo.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If you select 8 bit with mark parity on your terminal server, you?ll
>>>>> probably get the 8N2 timing the Teletype requires (the mark parity bit
>>>>> serves as the first stop bit).
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 31, 2021, at 7:11 PM, Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> ?
>>>>> Thanks guys for the responses - a lot of great info for me to digest!
>>>>>
>>>>> My terminal server (Equinox ELS-16) allows me to define character size
>>>>> as 7 or 8 bits, and to set parity as NONE, ODD, EVEN, MARK or SPACE.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't seem to have the ability to specifically state the number of
>>>>> stop bits, however.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway.. I'm going to crack my Teletype open and confirm exactly
>>>>> what's going on.
>>>>> cheers!
>>>>> Andy
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 5:43 PM Keith Lueck <kwlueck at swbell.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Jim & Wayne are spot-on, of course.  I learned the hard way that you
>>>>>> best include the parity bit - even though the 33 doesn't give a whit about
>>>>>> parity...
>>>>>> My machine was occasionally producing errors when I was feeding it 7
>>>>>> N 2.  Wayne Durkee set me straight, and, viola, when I sent it 7 M 2,
>>>>>> everything was 100% ducky.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sunday, January 31, 2021, 03:32:30 PM CST, Jim Haynes <
>>>>>> jhhaynes at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All the 33s and 35s generate 11 unit code.  1 start bit, 7 data bits,
>>>>>> one
>>>>>> bit which may be even parity or may be marking, and two stop bits.
>>>>>> That's
>>>>>> where 110 baud comes from. 100 wpm = 10 chars/sec and each char
>>>>>> contains
>>>>>> 11 bits.  The reason for two stop bits is the difficulty of making a
>>>>>> mechanical selector that is reliable at 100 wpm.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     ---
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     "Ya can argue all ya wanna, but it's dif'rent than it was."
>>>>>>     "No it ain't! No it ain't!  But ya gotta know the territory."
>>>>>>         Meredith Willson, The Music Man
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>>>> GreenKeys mailing list
>>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>>>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>>>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>>>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>>>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>>>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>>>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>>>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>>>> Message delivered to kwlueck at swbell.net
>>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>>> GreenKeys mailing list
>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>>>>
>>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>>>
>>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>>>
>>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>>> Message delivered to deramp5113 at yahoo.com
>>>>>
>>>>> <non parity keyboard.png>
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>> GreenKeys mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>
>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to vk2bea at gmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
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From mlinger at civil.tamu.edu  Tue Feb  9 17:24:59 2021
From: mlinger at civil.tamu.edu (Linger, Michael I)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2021 22:24:59 +0000
Subject: [GreenKeys] Model 28 Compact up for trade.....
Message-ID: <42df85b66aed4272a1c32e3c361509a9@civil.tamu.edu>

I have a very nice but unused (in years) Teletype 3 Speed Model 28 Compact and a 28 TD that I am considering trading off for older Teletype gear.  Currently I have a model 15 that needs some cleanup, mainly from sitting too long and my work schedule just doesn't allow me to get it done.   What I would like to end up with is a solid working clean Model 15 machine with a working 14 TD.  I would trade all the 28 stuff and my model 15 and model 14 TD's (both dirty).  If anyone is interested in a potential trade, please let me know.  Thanks, Mike, WA5MOE, oldrover51 at gmail.com
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From vk2bea at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 19:20:51 2021
From: vk2bea at gmail.com (Michael Katzmann)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2021 19:20:51 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] UPDATE- shockingly basic question - Teletype Model
	33 ASR
In-Reply-To: <CA+H6KCmYH+T1apcMb4GNr3--aQyEzDATESL=fz7jDmB3_KKy=Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B89CF151-3196-4D55-A45D-B426569310B6@gmail.com>
	<C2BFE42A-19EA-46EF-AFF2-2474709B1C72@yahoo.com>
	<CA+H6KC=jKmB2VN7GWMx0Yot7YunHpWNG=i5111yncACKaYHgPA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+H6KCkDs4NKNSEHNbG=CBDfxBnXZ1tQdW4sJQ-x1ZjFaA7kBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMyt5OQ1h4pRUbQPEhXdNt4bxfoPV0cKnH6s9RGfRvt4fVSFog@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+H6KCmYH+T1apcMb4GNr3--aQyEzDATESL=fz7jDmB3_KKy=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMyt5OTU0bMtRikk-R4NrBTB4u7PKEXDT6ygDdRNC55_aoiMVg@mail.gmail.com>

Try swapping the selector magnet driver card between the two units. (
vertical card on the right hand edge). If you are having problems in local
then it is not the RS232-current loop circuit but it might be the magnet
driver.

On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 4:53 PM Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:

> So RIGHT NOW the machine is running great, just like in the video from
> 1:42s  onwards.  It also prints perfectly in Local mode as well right now,
> no matter how fast I try to type.
>
> However - it will intermittently go back to garbage output, as is shown
> prior to 1:42s in the video.
>
> When I was testing in Local last night it was OK typing slowly, but typing
> a little fast caused garbage output.
>
> So I think the terminal is intermittently behaving badly, in LIne and
> Local.
>
> But.. of course... right now it is behaving itself!
>
> cheers
> Andy
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 2:21 PM Michael Katzmann <vk2bea at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I don't see this as a parity issue. I would expect the ASR33 typing unit
>> to ignore parity on receive. Although, I think the tape punch will punch
>> the eighth bit (or parity) if received.
>> Likewise the tape reader will read and send all eight bits.
>>
>> Does the ASR read a tape and print consistently in local ?
>> I'd be suspicious of the RS232 converter. If you have an oscilloscope and
>> can look at the RS232 input compared with the current loop output it may
>> prove or dispel this hypothesis.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 1:22 PM Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Well I was hoping that it was either my serial loop adapter acting up,
>>> or a cabling-from-serial-converter-to-terminal-server problem.  I've
>>> replaced everything (including the terminal server) but sadly no obvious
>>> fix.
>>>
>>>    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-w-HCXI25E
>>>
>>> I've got two similar 33s (both no parity keyboards) and I've had them
>>> both running at the same time connected to my terminal server for a while
>>> now.  Recently I get very garbled data on one of them. It doesn't seem to
>>> be related to the connected equipment or cabling as I've replaced
>>> everything.
>>>
>>> Then... very weirdly it starts working again, as you can see  at 1:42s
>>> on the video.
>>>
>>> Apart from fiddling about with the rangefinder, any other thoughts about
>>> (simple ?) tests or adjustments I can make to diagnose this?
>>>
>>> thanks folks.
>>> Andy
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 3:33 PM Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> OK well this is all very embarrassing. I have two almost identical 33s
>>>> (both non-parity) .... the other one works great connected to my Terminal
>>>> Server so thought I'd better  swap the RS232 Adapters, port and cable.. and
>>>> hey presto - my "not working due to parity errors" Teletype started running
>>>> fine!
>>>>
>>>> I then swapped back to the original RS232 adapter, cables and port...
>>>> expecting things to NOT work... but of course, everything ran fine (sigh.)
>>>>
>>>> I've tried jiggling the cables (I was hopeful maybe a weird cable
>>>> problem could be the issue) but I am struggling to see how a wiring problem
>>>> would look like a legit parity problem.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway! All good for now.. but I am curious what would cause these
>>>> parity-like symptoms. I am going to replace the cables anyway, and probably
>>>> grab another RS232 converter just in case.
>>>>
>>>> cheers!
>>>> Andy
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 11:05 PM Mike Douglas <deramp5113 at yahoo.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Since you are concerned about the parity of your keyboard while
>>>>> testing the TTY printing function, I assume your terminal server is in a
>>>>> mode where it echos characters that you type on the TTY keyboard back out
>>>>> to the TTY printer and you are testing your printer by typing on the TTY
>>>>> keyboard?
>>>>>
>>>>> If this is what you?re doing and you have a non-parity keyboard, then
>>>>> set the serial port to 7 data bits plus mark parity (non parity keyboards
>>>>> set the 8th bit to one). This should ensure the server accepts the typed
>>>>> characters. If you type one character at a time with a short pause between
>>>>> each character, then each character should echo properly to the TTY
>>>>> printer. The pause between each character will be more than the two stop
>>>>> bits the printer requires (and the printer ignores the 8th bit).
>>>>>
>>>>> If, however, you have a telnet session open and are sending data from
>>>>> a remote device to the TTY printer and are not using the TTY keyboard to
>>>>> generate test data, then set the serial port to 8 data bits plus mark
>>>>> parity. This will appear as 8 data bits and 2 stop bits to the printer (as
>>>>> it requires) and the printer can then keep up with a steady stream of data.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you are getting some garbage characters with either of these
>>>>> methods but everything prints correctly in local mode, you made need to
>>>>> adjust the rangefinder a bit.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 9:22 PM, Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> ?
>>>>> My Teletype has a Deramp converter which goes direct into an Equinox
>>>>> ELS-16 terminal server.  When I start I get a session with the terminal
>>>>> server and can interact directly with the server ... or telnet onwards
>>>>> elsewhere.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 10:00 PM, Mike Douglas <deramp5113 at yahoo.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> ?
>>>>> ?I guess I?m confused as to your test setup then. What is sending data
>>>>> to your Teletype? Is it coming from an external source other than the
>>>>> Teletype, or are you testing by somehow looping keyboard input from your
>>>>> TTY back out to the TTY printer?
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 8:36 PM, Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> ?
>>>>> I think I am still missing a trick or two here...I tried every
>>>>> combination of 8 and 7 even/odd/none/mark/space and I get no printing at
>>>>> all with 8 bit, but moderately bad spelling errors with 7.  See attachment
>>>>> below... presumably this means I have the non-parity keyboard?
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks in advance for your thoughts!
>>>>> Andy
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 8:18 PM Mike Douglas <deramp5113 at yahoo.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> If you select 8 bit with mark parity on your terminal server, you?ll
>>>>>> probably get the 8N2 timing the Teletype requires (the mark parity bit
>>>>>> serves as the first stop bit).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 31, 2021, at 7:11 PM, Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ?
>>>>>> Thanks guys for the responses - a lot of great info for me to
>>>>>> digest!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My terminal server (Equinox ELS-16) allows me to define character
>>>>>> size as 7 or 8 bits, and to set parity as NONE, ODD, EVEN, MARK or SPACE.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't seem to have the ability to specifically state the number of
>>>>>> stop bits, however.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway.. I'm going to crack my Teletype open and confirm exactly
>>>>>> what's going on.
>>>>>> cheers!
>>>>>> Andy
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 5:43 PM Keith Lueck <kwlueck at swbell.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jim & Wayne are spot-on, of course.  I learned the hard way that you
>>>>>>> best include the parity bit - even though the 33 doesn't give a whit about
>>>>>>> parity...
>>>>>>> My machine was occasionally producing errors when I was feeding it 7
>>>>>>> N 2.  Wayne Durkee set me straight, and, viola, when I sent it 7 M 2,
>>>>>>> everything was 100% ducky.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sunday, January 31, 2021, 03:32:30 PM CST, Jim Haynes <
>>>>>>> jhhaynes at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All the 33s and 35s generate 11 unit code.  1 start bit, 7 data
>>>>>>> bits, one
>>>>>>> bit which may be even parity or may be marking, and two stop bits.
>>>>>>> That's
>>>>>>> where 110 baud comes from. 100 wpm = 10 chars/sec and each char
>>>>>>> contains
>>>>>>> 11 bits.  The reason for two stop bits is the difficulty of making a
>>>>>>> mechanical selector that is reliable at 100 wpm.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     ---
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     "Ya can argue all ya wanna, but it's dif'rent than it was."
>>>>>>>     "No it ain't! No it ain't!  But ya gotta know the territory."
>>>>>>>         Meredith Willson, The Music Man
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>>>>> GreenKeys mailing list
>>>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>>>>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>>>>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>>>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>>>>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>>>>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>>>>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>>>>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>>>>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>>>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>>>>> Message delivered to kwlueck at swbell.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>>>> GreenKeys mailing list
>>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>>>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>>>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>>>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>>>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>>>> Message delivered to deramp5113 at yahoo.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <non parity keyboard.png>
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> GreenKeys mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>>
>>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to vk2bea at gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
   |\      _,,,---,,_             Michael Katzmann
   /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_         NV3Z / VK2BEA / G4NYV
  |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'
 '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)             vk2bea at gmail.com
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From teletypeparts at comcast.net  Tue Feb  9 19:36:02 2021
From: teletypeparts at comcast.net (WAYNE)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2021 19:36:02 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [GreenKeys] UPDATE- shockingly basic question - Teletype Model
 33 ASR
In-Reply-To: <CAMyt5OTU0bMtRikk-R4NrBTB4u7PKEXDT6ygDdRNC55_aoiMVg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B89CF151-3196-4D55-A45D-B426569310B6@gmail.com>
	<C2BFE42A-19EA-46EF-AFF2-2474709B1C72@yahoo.com>
	<CA+H6KC=jKmB2VN7GWMx0Yot7YunHpWNG=i5111yncACKaYHgPA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+H6KCkDs4NKNSEHNbG=CBDfxBnXZ1tQdW4sJQ-x1ZjFaA7kBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMyt5OQ1h4pRUbQPEhXdNt4bxfoPV0cKnH6s9RGfRvt4fVSFog@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+H6KCmYH+T1apcMb4GNr3--aQyEzDATESL=fz7jDmB3_KKy=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMyt5OTU0bMtRikk-R4NrBTB4u7PKEXDT6ygDdRNC55_aoiMVg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2046229926.292643.1612917362532@connect.xfinity.com>

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From kn4ucl at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 20:47:22 2021
From: kn4ucl at gmail.com (Andy KN4UCL)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2021 20:47:22 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] UPDATE- shockingly basic question - Teletype Model
	33 ASR
In-Reply-To: <CAMyt5OTU0bMtRikk-R4NrBTB4u7PKEXDT6ygDdRNC55_aoiMVg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B89CF151-3196-4D55-A45D-B426569310B6@gmail.com>
	<C2BFE42A-19EA-46EF-AFF2-2474709B1C72@yahoo.com>
	<CA+H6KC=jKmB2VN7GWMx0Yot7YunHpWNG=i5111yncACKaYHgPA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+H6KCkDs4NKNSEHNbG=CBDfxBnXZ1tQdW4sJQ-x1ZjFaA7kBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMyt5OQ1h4pRUbQPEhXdNt4bxfoPV0cKnH6s9RGfRvt4fVSFog@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+H6KCmYH+T1apcMb4GNr3--aQyEzDATESL=fz7jDmB3_KKy=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMyt5OTU0bMtRikk-R4NrBTB4u7PKEXDT6ygDdRNC55_aoiMVg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+H6KCmX6X2oHCyVo1yVLN-n65OK1xF8dCkeCMARH02F7osTmA@mail.gmail.com>

 I removed the SMD card and took a photo (see attached) and all looks
visually OK.  Before swapping with the other one I popped it back in just
to make sure things were as before... but yikes!  Quite a buzzing sound in
Line or Local.  Line was no longer working and Local would not type very
faithfully. Buzzing did not stop so I quickly powered off, and when I did
there was a gentle mechanical  'pop' as the power released. I removed and
repositioned the card ... but same symptoms.

Thought I'd better power off before something starts burning!

On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 7:21 PM Michael Katzmann <vk2bea at gmail.com> wrote:

> Try swapping the selector magnet driver card between the two units. (
> vertical card on the right hand edge). If you are having problems in local
> then it is not the RS232-current loop circuit but it might be the magnet
> driver.
>
> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 4:53 PM Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> So RIGHT NOW the machine is running great, just like in the video from
>> 1:42s  onwards.  It also prints perfectly in Local mode as well right now,
>> no matter how fast I try to type.
>>
>> However - it will intermittently go back to garbage output, as is shown
>> prior to 1:42s in the video.
>>
>> When I was testing in Local last night it was OK typing slowly, but
>> typing a little fast caused garbage output.
>>
>> So I think the terminal is intermittently behaving badly, in LIne and
>> Local.
>>
>> But.. of course... right now it is behaving itself!
>>
>> cheers
>> Andy
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 2:21 PM Michael Katzmann <vk2bea at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I don't see this as a parity issue. I would expect the ASR33 typing unit
>>> to ignore parity on receive. Although, I think the tape punch will punch
>>> the eighth bit (or parity) if received.
>>> Likewise the tape reader will read and send all eight bits.
>>>
>>> Does the ASR read a tape and print consistently in local ?
>>> I'd be suspicious of the RS232 converter. If you have an
>>> oscilloscope and can look at the RS232 input compared with the current loop
>>> output it may prove or dispel this hypothesis.
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 1:22 PM Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well I was hoping that it was either my serial loop adapter acting up,
>>>> or a cabling-from-serial-converter-to-terminal-server problem.  I've
>>>> replaced everything (including the terminal server) but sadly no obvious
>>>> fix.
>>>>
>>>>    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-w-HCXI25E
>>>>
>>>> I've got two similar 33s (both no parity keyboards) and I've had them
>>>> both running at the same time connected to my terminal server for a while
>>>> now.  Recently I get very garbled data on one of them. It doesn't seem to
>>>> be related to the connected equipment or cabling as I've replaced
>>>> everything.
>>>>
>>>> Then... very weirdly it starts working again, as you can see  at 1:42s
>>>> on the video.
>>>>
>>>> Apart from fiddling about with the rangefinder, any other thoughts
>>>> about (simple ?) tests or adjustments I can make to diagnose this?
>>>>
>>>> thanks folks.
>>>> Andy
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 3:33 PM Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> OK well this is all very embarrassing. I have two almost identical 33s
>>>>> (both non-parity) .... the other one works great connected to my Terminal
>>>>> Server so thought I'd better  swap the RS232 Adapters, port and cable.. and
>>>>> hey presto - my "not working due to parity errors" Teletype started running
>>>>> fine!
>>>>>
>>>>> I then swapped back to the original RS232 adapter, cables and port...
>>>>> expecting things to NOT work... but of course, everything ran fine (sigh.)
>>>>>
>>>>> I've tried jiggling the cables (I was hopeful maybe a weird cable
>>>>> problem could be the issue) but I am struggling to see how a wiring problem
>>>>> would look like a legit parity problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway! All good for now.. but I am curious what would cause these
>>>>> parity-like symptoms. I am going to replace the cables anyway, and probably
>>>>> grab another RS232 converter just in case.
>>>>>
>>>>> cheers!
>>>>> Andy
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 11:05 PM Mike Douglas <deramp5113 at yahoo.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Since you are concerned about the parity of your keyboard while
>>>>>> testing the TTY printing function, I assume your terminal server is in a
>>>>>> mode where it echos characters that you type on the TTY keyboard back out
>>>>>> to the TTY printer and you are testing your printer by typing on the TTY
>>>>>> keyboard?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If this is what you?re doing and you have a non-parity keyboard, then
>>>>>> set the serial port to 7 data bits plus mark parity (non parity keyboards
>>>>>> set the 8th bit to one). This should ensure the server accepts the typed
>>>>>> characters. If you type one character at a time with a short pause between
>>>>>> each character, then each character should echo properly to the TTY
>>>>>> printer. The pause between each character will be more than the two stop
>>>>>> bits the printer requires (and the printer ignores the 8th bit).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If, however, you have a telnet session open and are sending data from
>>>>>> a remote device to the TTY printer and are not using the TTY keyboard to
>>>>>> generate test data, then set the serial port to 8 data bits plus mark
>>>>>> parity. This will appear as 8 data bits and 2 stop bits to the printer (as
>>>>>> it requires) and the printer can then keep up with a steady stream of data.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you are getting some garbage characters with either of these
>>>>>> methods but everything prints correctly in local mode, you made need to
>>>>>> adjust the rangefinder a bit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 9:22 PM, Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ?
>>>>>> My Teletype has a Deramp converter which goes direct into an Equinox
>>>>>> ELS-16 terminal server.  When I start I get a session with the terminal
>>>>>> server and can interact directly with the server ... or telnet onwards
>>>>>> elsewhere.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 10:00 PM, Mike Douglas <deramp5113 at yahoo.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ?
>>>>>> ?I guess I?m confused as to your test setup then. What is sending
>>>>>> data to your Teletype? Is it coming from an external source other than the
>>>>>> Teletype, or are you testing by somehow looping keyboard input from your
>>>>>> TTY back out to the TTY printer?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 8:36 PM, Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ?
>>>>>> I think I am still missing a trick or two here...I tried every
>>>>>> combination of 8 and 7 even/odd/none/mark/space and I get no printing at
>>>>>> all with 8 bit, but moderately bad spelling errors with 7.  See attachment
>>>>>> below... presumably this means I have the non-parity keyboard?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks in advance for your thoughts!
>>>>>> Andy
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 8:18 PM Mike Douglas <deramp5113 at yahoo.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you select 8 bit with mark parity on your terminal server, you?ll
>>>>>>> probably get the 8N2 timing the Teletype requires (the mark parity bit
>>>>>>> serves as the first stop bit).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jan 31, 2021, at 7:11 PM, Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>> Thanks guys for the responses - a lot of great info for me to
>>>>>>> digest!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My terminal server (Equinox ELS-16) allows me to define character
>>>>>>> size as 7 or 8 bits, and to set parity as NONE, ODD, EVEN, MARK or SPACE.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't seem to have the ability to specifically state the number of
>>>>>>> stop bits, however.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyway.. I'm going to crack my Teletype open and confirm exactly
>>>>>>> what's going on.
>>>>>>> cheers!
>>>>>>> Andy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 5:43 PM Keith Lueck <kwlueck at swbell.net>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jim & Wayne are spot-on, of course.  I learned the hard way that
>>>>>>>> you best include the parity bit - even though the 33 doesn't give a whit
>>>>>>>> about parity...
>>>>>>>> My machine was occasionally producing errors when I was feeding it
>>>>>>>> 7 N 2.  Wayne Durkee set me straight, and, viola, when I sent it 7 M 2,
>>>>>>>> everything was 100% ducky.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sunday, January 31, 2021, 03:32:30 PM CST, Jim Haynes <
>>>>>>>> jhhaynes at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> All the 33s and 35s generate 11 unit code.  1 start bit, 7 data
>>>>>>>> bits, one
>>>>>>>> bit which may be even parity or may be marking, and two stop bits.
>>>>>>>> That's
>>>>>>>> where 110 baud comes from. 100 wpm = 10 chars/sec and each char
>>>>>>>> contains
>>>>>>>> 11 bits.  The reason for two stop bits is the difficulty of making a
>>>>>>>> mechanical selector that is reliable at 100 wpm.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     ---
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     "Ya can argue all ya wanna, but it's dif'rent than it was."
>>>>>>>>     "No it ain't! No it ain't!  But ya gotta know the territory."
>>>>>>>>         Meredith Willson, The Music Man
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> GreenKeys mailing list
>>>>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>>>>>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>>>>>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>>>>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>>>>>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>>>>>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>>>>>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>>>>>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>>>>>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>>>>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>>>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>>>>>> Message delivered to kwlueck at swbell.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>>>>> GreenKeys mailing list
>>>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>>>>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>>>>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>>>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>>>>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>>>>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>>>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>>>>> Message delivered to deramp5113 at yahoo.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <non parity keyboard.png>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> GreenKeys mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>>>
>>>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>> Message delivered to vk2bea at gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>    |\      _,,,---,,_             Michael Katzmann
>    /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_         NV3Z / VK2BEA / G4NYV
>   |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'
>  '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)             vk2bea at gmail.com
>
>
>
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From asekely at hotmail.com  Tue Feb  9 21:21:51 2021
From: asekely at hotmail.com (zeke 440)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2021 02:21:51 +0000
Subject: [GreenKeys] UPDATE- shockingly basic question - Teletype Model
 33 ASR
In-Reply-To: <2046229926.292643.1612917362532@connect.xfinity.com>
References: <B89CF151-3196-4D55-A45D-B426569310B6@gmail.com>
	<C2BFE42A-19EA-46EF-AFF2-2474709B1C72@yahoo.com>
	<CA+H6KC=jKmB2VN7GWMx0Yot7YunHpWNG=i5111yncACKaYHgPA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+H6KCkDs4NKNSEHNbG=CBDfxBnXZ1tQdW4sJQ-x1ZjFaA7kBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMyt5OQ1h4pRUbQPEhXdNt4bxfoPV0cKnH6s9RGfRvt4fVSFog@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+H6KCmYH+T1apcMb4GNr3--aQyEzDATESL=fz7jDmB3_KKy=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMyt5OTU0bMtRikk-R4NrBTB4u7PKEXDT6ygDdRNC55_aoiMVg@mail.gmail.com>,
	<2046229926.292643.1612917362532@connect.xfinity.com>
Message-ID: <SA0PR07MB753212E2BCF3F03430F04024A38D9@SA0PR07MB7532.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Just a thought...   hope it?s not a repeat...  have you checked the selector armature spring bias?  Sounds speed / end bias. Long shot if you have tried replacing all else.

Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
________________________________
From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net <greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net> on behalf of WAYNE <teletypeparts at comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 9, 2021 7:36:02 PM
To: Michael Katzmann <vk2bea at gmail.com>; Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com>
Cc: Greenkeys <Greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] UPDATE- shockingly basic question - Teletype Model 33 ASR

Garbling would not likely be the SMD card but that is a good start.  Loose solder joints on the SMD are common.

The selector clutch not latching might be something to look at.  Sounds like it may be slipping by.  Lots of other possibilities as well.

More tomorrow.

Wayne
KB1FDW
On 02/09/2021 7:20 PM Michael Katzmann <vk2bea at gmail.com> wrote:


Try swapping the selector magnet driver card between the two units. ( vertical card on the right hand edge). If you are having problems in local then it is not the RS232-current loop circuit but it might be the magnet driver.

On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 4:53 PM Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com<mailto:kn4ucl at gmail.com>> wrote:
So RIGHT NOW the machine is running great, just like in the video from 1:42s  onwards.  It also prints perfectly in Local mode as well right now, no matter how fast I try to type.

However - it will intermittently go back to garbage output, as is shown prior to 1:42s in the video.

When I was testing in Local last night it was OK typing slowly, but typing a little fast caused garbage output.

So I think the terminal is intermittently behaving badly, in LIne and Local.

But.. of course... right now it is behaving itself!

cheers
Andy



On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 2:21 PM Michael Katzmann < vk2bea at gmail.com<mailto:vk2bea at gmail.com>> wrote:
I don't see this as a parity issue. I would expect the ASR33 typing unit to ignore parity on receive. Although, I think the tape punch will punch the eighth bit (or parity) if received.
Likewise the tape reader will read and send all eight bits.

Does the ASR read a tape and print consistently in local ?
I'd be suspicious of the RS232 converter. If you have an oscilloscope and can look at the RS232 input compared with the current loop output it may prove or dispel this hypothesis.

Michael

On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 1:22 PM Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com<mailto:kn4ucl at gmail.com>> wrote:
Well I was hoping that it was either my serial loop adapter acting up, or a cabling-from-serial-converter-to-terminal-server problem.  I've replaced everything (including the terminal server) but sadly no obvious fix.

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-w-HCXI25E<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dh-w-HCXI25E&data=04%7C01%7C%7C6375427ee71d45562d4708d8cd5bf337%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637485142290894218%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=G4T7gSQztTlbNK1BQewjwIUTdnZGebZDvAosFxz0jGA%3D&reserved=0>

I've got two similar 33s (both no parity keyboards) and I've had them both running at the same time connected to my terminal server for a while now.  Recently I get very garbled data on one of them. It doesn't seem to be related to the connected equipment or cabling as I've replaced everything.

Then... very weirdly it starts working again, as you can see  at 1:42s on the video.

Apart from fiddling about with the rangefinder, any other thoughts about (simple ?) tests or adjustments I can make to diagnose this?

thanks folks.
Andy

On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 3:33 PM Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com<mailto:kn4ucl at gmail.com>> wrote:
OK well this is all very embarrassing. I have two almost identical 33s (both non-parity) .... the other one works great connected to my Terminal Server so thought I'd better  swap the RS232 Adapters, port and cable.. and hey presto - my "not working due to parity errors" Teletype started running fine!

I then swapped back to the original RS232 adapter, cables and port... expecting things to NOT work... but of course, everything ran fine (sigh.)

I've tried jiggling the cables (I was hopeful maybe a weird cable problem could be the issue) but I am struggling to see how a wiring problem would look like a legit parity problem.

Anyway! All good for now.. but I am curious what would cause these parity-like symptoms. I am going to replace the cables anyway, and probably grab another RS232 converter just in case.

cheers!
Andy

On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 11:05 PM Mike Douglas < deramp5113 at yahoo.com<mailto:deramp5113 at yahoo.com>> wrote:
Since you are concerned about the parity of your keyboard while testing the TTY printing function, I assume your terminal server is in a mode where it echos characters that you type on the TTY keyboard back out to the TTY printer and you are testing your printer by typing on the TTY keyboard?

If this is what you?re doing and you have a non-parity keyboard, then set the serial port to 7 data bits plus mark parity (non parity keyboards set the 8th bit to one). This should ensure the server accepts the typed characters. If you type one character at a time with a short pause between each character, then each character should echo properly to the TTY printer. The pause between each character will be more than the two stop bits the printer requires (and the printer ignores the 8th bit).

If, however, you have a telnet session open and are sending data from a remote device to the TTY printer and are not using the TTY keyboard to generate test data, then set the serial port to 8 data bits plus mark parity. This will appear as 8 data bits and 2 stop bits to the printer (as it requires) and the printer can then keep up with a steady stream of data.

If you are getting some garbage characters with either of these methods but everything prints correctly in local mode, you made need to adjust the rangefinder a bit.

Mike

On Feb 3, 2021, at 9:22 PM, Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com<mailto:kn4ucl at gmail.com>> wrote:

My Teletype has a Deramp converter which goes direct into an Equinox ELS-16 terminal server.  When I start I get a session with the terminal server and can interact directly with the server ... or telnet onwards elsewhere.

On Feb 3, 2021, at 10:00 PM, Mike Douglas < deramp5113 at yahoo.com<mailto:deramp5113 at yahoo.com>> wrote:

I guess I?m confused as to your test setup then. What is sending data to your Teletype? Is it coming from an external source other than the Teletype, or are you testing by somehow looping keyboard input from your TTY back out to the TTY printer?

Mike

On Feb 3, 2021, at 8:36 PM, Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com<mailto:kn4ucl at gmail.com>> wrote:

I think I am still missing a trick or two here...I tried every combination of 8 and 7 even/odd/none/mark/space and I get no printing at all with 8 bit, but moderately bad spelling errors with 7.  See attachment below... presumably this means I have the non-parity keyboard?

thanks in advance for your thoughts!
Andy

On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 8:18 PM Mike Douglas < deramp5113 at yahoo.com<mailto:deramp5113 at yahoo.com>> wrote:
If you select 8 bit with mark parity on your terminal server, you?ll probably get the 8N2 timing the Teletype requires (the mark parity bit serves as the first stop bit).

Mike

On Jan 31, 2021, at 7:11 PM, Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com<mailto:kn4ucl at gmail.com>> wrote:

Thanks guys for the responses - a lot of great info for me to digest!

My terminal server (Equinox ELS-16) allows me to define character size as 7 or 8 bits, and to set parity as NONE, ODD, EVEN, MARK or SPACE.

I don't seem to have the ability to specifically state the number of stop bits, however.


Anyway.. I'm going to crack my Teletype open and confirm exactly what's going on.
cheers!
Andy

On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 5:43 PM Keith Lueck < kwlueck at swbell.net<mailto:kwlueck at swbell.net>> wrote:

Jim & Wayne are spot-on, of course.  I learned the hard way that you best include the parity bit - even though the 33 doesn't give a whit about parity...
My machine was occasionally producing errors when I was feeding it 7 N 2.  Wayne Durkee set me straight, and, viola, when I sent it 7 M 2, everything was 100% ducky.

On Sunday, January 31, 2021, 03:32:30 PM CST, Jim Haynes < jhhaynes at earthlink.net<mailto:jhhaynes at earthlink.net>> wrote:


All the 33s and 35s generate 11 unit code.  1 start bit, 7 data bits, one
bit which may be even parity or may be marking, and two stop bits.  That's
where 110 baud comes from. 100 wpm = 10 chars/sec and each char contains
11 bits.  The reason for two stop bits is the difficulty of making a
mechanical selector that is reliable at 100 wpm.

    ---

    "Ya can argue all ya wanna, but it's dif'rent than it was."
    "No it ain't! No it ain't!  But ya gotta know the territory."
        Meredith Willson, The Music Man

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<non parity keyboard.png>
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--
   |\      _,,,---,,_             Michael Katzmann
   /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_         NV3Z / VK2BEA / G4NYV
  |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'
 '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)             vk2bea at gmail.com<mailto:vk2bea at gmail.com>


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From kn4ucl at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 20:26:04 2021
From: kn4ucl at gmail.com (Andy KN4UCL)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2021 20:26:04 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] UPDATE- shockingly basic question - Teletype Model
	33 ASR
In-Reply-To: <CAMyt5OTU0bMtRikk-R4NrBTB4u7PKEXDT6ygDdRNC55_aoiMVg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B89CF151-3196-4D55-A45D-B426569310B6@gmail.com>
	<C2BFE42A-19EA-46EF-AFF2-2474709B1C72@yahoo.com>
	<CA+H6KC=jKmB2VN7GWMx0Yot7YunHpWNG=i5111yncACKaYHgPA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+H6KCkDs4NKNSEHNbG=CBDfxBnXZ1tQdW4sJQ-x1ZjFaA7kBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMyt5OQ1h4pRUbQPEhXdNt4bxfoPV0cKnH6s9RGfRvt4fVSFog@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+H6KCmYH+T1apcMb4GNr3--aQyEzDATESL=fz7jDmB3_KKy=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMyt5OTU0bMtRikk-R4NrBTB4u7PKEXDT6ygDdRNC55_aoiMVg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+H6KCkDiNJSpZsKM4JP3Gzs0TM2gK-KAzt6bYt-40nFFd0zCQ@mail.gmail.com>

I removed the SMD card and took a photo (see attached) and all looks
visually OK.  Before swapping with the other one I popped it back in just
to make sure things were as before... but yikes!  Quite a buzzing sound in
Line or Local.  Line was no longer working and Local would not type very
faithfully. Buzzing did not stop so I quickly powered off, and when I did
there was a gentle mechanical  'pop' as the power released. I removed and
repositioned the card ... but same symptoms.

Thought I'd better power off before something starts burning!

On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 7:21 PM Michael Katzmann <vk2bea at gmail.com> wrote:

> Try swapping the selector magnet driver card between the two units. (
> vertical card on the right hand edge). If you are having problems in local
> then it is not the RS232-current loop circuit but it might be the magnet
> driver.
>
> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 4:53 PM Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> So RIGHT NOW the machine is running great, just like in the video from
>> 1:42s  onwards.  It also prints perfectly in Local mode as well right now,
>> no matter how fast I try to type.
>>
>> However - it will intermittently go back to garbage output, as is shown
>> prior to 1:42s in the video.
>>
>> When I was testing in Local last night it was OK typing slowly, but
>> typing a little fast caused garbage output.
>>
>> So I think the terminal is intermittently behaving badly, in LIne and
>> Local.
>>
>> But.. of course... right now it is behaving itself!
>>
>> cheers
>> Andy
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 2:21 PM Michael Katzmann <vk2bea at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I don't see this as a parity issue. I would expect the ASR33 typing unit
>>> to ignore parity on receive. Although, I think the tape punch will punch
>>> the eighth bit (or parity) if received.
>>> Likewise the tape reader will read and send all eight bits.
>>>
>>> Does the ASR read a tape and print consistently in local ?
>>> I'd be suspicious of the RS232 converter. If you have an
>>> oscilloscope and can look at the RS232 input compared with the current loop
>>> output it may prove or dispel this hypothesis.
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 1:22 PM Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well I was hoping that it was either my serial loop adapter acting up,
>>>> or a cabling-from-serial-converter-to-terminal-server problem.  I've
>>>> replaced everything (including the terminal server) but sadly no obvious
>>>> fix.
>>>>
>>>>    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-w-HCXI25E
>>>>
>>>> I've got two similar 33s (both no parity keyboards) and I've had them
>>>> both running at the same time connected to my terminal server for a while
>>>> now.  Recently I get very garbled data on one of them. It doesn't seem to
>>>> be related to the connected equipment or cabling as I've replaced
>>>> everything.
>>>>
>>>> Then... very weirdly it starts working again, as you can see  at 1:42s
>>>> on the video.
>>>>
>>>> Apart from fiddling about with the rangefinder, any other thoughts
>>>> about (simple ?) tests or adjustments I can make to diagnose this?
>>>>
>>>> thanks folks.
>>>> Andy
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 3:33 PM Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> OK well this is all very embarrassing. I have two almost identical 33s
>>>>> (both non-parity) .... the other one works great connected to my Terminal
>>>>> Server so thought I'd better  swap the RS232 Adapters, port and cable.. and
>>>>> hey presto - my "not working due to parity errors" Teletype started running
>>>>> fine!
>>>>>
>>>>> I then swapped back to the original RS232 adapter, cables and port...
>>>>> expecting things to NOT work... but of course, everything ran fine (sigh.)
>>>>>
>>>>> I've tried jiggling the cables (I was hopeful maybe a weird cable
>>>>> problem could be the issue) but I am struggling to see how a wiring problem
>>>>> would look like a legit parity problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway! All good for now.. but I am curious what would cause these
>>>>> parity-like symptoms. I am going to replace the cables anyway, and probably
>>>>> grab another RS232 converter just in case.
>>>>>
>>>>> cheers!
>>>>> Andy
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 11:05 PM Mike Douglas <deramp5113 at yahoo.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Since you are concerned about the parity of your keyboard while
>>>>>> testing the TTY printing function, I assume your terminal server is in a
>>>>>> mode where it echos characters that you type on the TTY keyboard back out
>>>>>> to the TTY printer and you are testing your printer by typing on the TTY
>>>>>> keyboard?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If this is what you?re doing and you have a non-parity keyboard, then
>>>>>> set the serial port to 7 data bits plus mark parity (non parity keyboards
>>>>>> set the 8th bit to one). This should ensure the server accepts the typed
>>>>>> characters. If you type one character at a time with a short pause between
>>>>>> each character, then each character should echo properly to the TTY
>>>>>> printer. The pause between each character will be more than the two stop
>>>>>> bits the printer requires (and the printer ignores the 8th bit).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If, however, you have a telnet session open and are sending data from
>>>>>> a remote device to the TTY printer and are not using the TTY keyboard to
>>>>>> generate test data, then set the serial port to 8 data bits plus mark
>>>>>> parity. This will appear as 8 data bits and 2 stop bits to the printer (as
>>>>>> it requires) and the printer can then keep up with a steady stream of data.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you are getting some garbage characters with either of these
>>>>>> methods but everything prints correctly in local mode, you made need to
>>>>>> adjust the rangefinder a bit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 9:22 PM, Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ?
>>>>>> My Teletype has a Deramp converter which goes direct into an Equinox
>>>>>> ELS-16 terminal server.  When I start I get a session with the terminal
>>>>>> server and can interact directly with the server ... or telnet onwards
>>>>>> elsewhere.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 10:00 PM, Mike Douglas <deramp5113 at yahoo.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ?
>>>>>> ?I guess I?m confused as to your test setup then. What is sending
>>>>>> data to your Teletype? Is it coming from an external source other than the
>>>>>> Teletype, or are you testing by somehow looping keyboard input from your
>>>>>> TTY back out to the TTY printer?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 8:36 PM, Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ?
>>>>>> I think I am still missing a trick or two here...I tried every
>>>>>> combination of 8 and 7 even/odd/none/mark/space and I get no printing at
>>>>>> all with 8 bit, but moderately bad spelling errors with 7.  See attachment
>>>>>> below... presumably this means I have the non-parity keyboard?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks in advance for your thoughts!
>>>>>> Andy
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 8:18 PM Mike Douglas <deramp5113 at yahoo.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you select 8 bit with mark parity on your terminal server, you?ll
>>>>>>> probably get the 8N2 timing the Teletype requires (the mark parity bit
>>>>>>> serves as the first stop bit).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jan 31, 2021, at 7:11 PM, Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>> Thanks guys for the responses - a lot of great info for me to
>>>>>>> digest!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My terminal server (Equinox ELS-16) allows me to define character
>>>>>>> size as 7 or 8 bits, and to set parity as NONE, ODD, EVEN, MARK or SPACE.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't seem to have the ability to specifically state the number of
>>>>>>> stop bits, however.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyway.. I'm going to crack my Teletype open and confirm exactly
>>>>>>> what's going on.
>>>>>>> cheers!
>>>>>>> Andy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 5:43 PM Keith Lueck <kwlueck at swbell.net>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jim & Wayne are spot-on, of course.  I learned the hard way that
>>>>>>>> you best include the parity bit - even though the 33 doesn't give a whit
>>>>>>>> about parity...
>>>>>>>> My machine was occasionally producing errors when I was feeding it
>>>>>>>> 7 N 2.  Wayne Durkee set me straight, and, viola, when I sent it 7 M 2,
>>>>>>>> everything was 100% ducky.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sunday, January 31, 2021, 03:32:30 PM CST, Jim Haynes <
>>>>>>>> jhhaynes at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> All the 33s and 35s generate 11 unit code.  1 start bit, 7 data
>>>>>>>> bits, one
>>>>>>>> bit which may be even parity or may be marking, and two stop bits.
>>>>>>>> That's
>>>>>>>> where 110 baud comes from. 100 wpm = 10 chars/sec and each char
>>>>>>>> contains
>>>>>>>> 11 bits.  The reason for two stop bits is the difficulty of making a
>>>>>>>> mechanical selector that is reliable at 100 wpm.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     ---
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     "Ya can argue all ya wanna, but it's dif'rent than it was."
>>>>>>>>     "No it ain't! No it ain't!  But ya gotta know the territory."
>>>>>>>>         Meredith Willson, The Music Man
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> GreenKeys mailing list
>>>>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>>>>>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>>>>>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>>>>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>>>>>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>>>>>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>>>>>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>>>>>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>>>>>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>>>>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>>>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>>>>>> Message delivered to kwlueck at swbell.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>>>>> GreenKeys mailing list
>>>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>>>>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>>>>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>>>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>>>>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>>>>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>>>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>>>>> Message delivered to deramp5113 at yahoo.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <non parity keyboard.png>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> GreenKeys mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>>>
>>>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>> Message delivered to vk2bea at gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>    |\      _,,,---,,_             Michael Katzmann
>    /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_         NV3Z / VK2BEA / G4NYV
>   |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'
>  '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)             vk2bea at gmail.com
>
>
>
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From teletypeparts at comcast.net  Wed Feb 10 14:39:56 2021
From: teletypeparts at comcast.net (WAYNE)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2021 14:39:56 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [GreenKeys] UPDATE- shockingly basic question - Teletype Model
 33 ASR
In-Reply-To: <CA+H6KCmX6X2oHCyVo1yVLN-n65OK1xF8dCkeCMARH02F7osTmA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B89CF151-3196-4D55-A45D-B426569310B6@gmail.com>
	<C2BFE42A-19EA-46EF-AFF2-2474709B1C72@yahoo.com>
	<CA+H6KC=jKmB2VN7GWMx0Yot7YunHpWNG=i5111yncACKaYHgPA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+H6KCkDs4NKNSEHNbG=CBDfxBnXZ1tQdW4sJQ-x1ZjFaA7kBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMyt5OQ1h4pRUbQPEhXdNt4bxfoPV0cKnH6s9RGfRvt4fVSFog@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+H6KCmYH+T1apcMb4GNr3--aQyEzDATESL=fz7jDmB3_KKy=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMyt5OTU0bMtRikk-R4NrBTB4u7PKEXDT6ygDdRNC55_aoiMVg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+H6KCmX6X2oHCyVo1yVLN-n65OK1xF8dCkeCMARH02F7osTmA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1687318958.3916.1612985996866@connect.xfinity.com>

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From teletypeparts at comcast.net  Wed Feb 10 14:40:51 2021
From: teletypeparts at comcast.net (WAYNE)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2021 14:40:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [GreenKeys] UPDATE- shockingly basic question - Teletype Model
 33 ASR
In-Reply-To: <CA+H6KCmX6X2oHCyVo1yVLN-n65OK1xF8dCkeCMARH02F7osTmA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B89CF151-3196-4D55-A45D-B426569310B6@gmail.com>
	<C2BFE42A-19EA-46EF-AFF2-2474709B1C72@yahoo.com>
	<CA+H6KC=jKmB2VN7GWMx0Yot7YunHpWNG=i5111yncACKaYHgPA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+H6KCkDs4NKNSEHNbG=CBDfxBnXZ1tQdW4sJQ-x1ZjFaA7kBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMyt5OQ1h4pRUbQPEhXdNt4bxfoPV0cKnH6s9RGfRvt4fVSFog@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+H6KCmYH+T1apcMb4GNr3--aQyEzDATESL=fz7jDmB3_KKy=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMyt5OTU0bMtRikk-R4NrBTB4u7PKEXDT6ygDdRNC55_aoiMVg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+H6KCmX6X2oHCyVo1yVLN-n65OK1xF8dCkeCMARH02F7osTmA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <458215384.3919.1612986051356@connect.xfinity.com>

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From teletypeparts at comcast.net  Wed Feb 10 14:52:41 2021
From: teletypeparts at comcast.net (WAYNE)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2021 14:52:41 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [GreenKeys] UPDATE- shockingly basic question - Teletype Model
 33 ASR
In-Reply-To: <CA+H6KCmX6X2oHCyVo1yVLN-n65OK1xF8dCkeCMARH02F7osTmA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B89CF151-3196-4D55-A45D-B426569310B6@gmail.com>
	<C2BFE42A-19EA-46EF-AFF2-2474709B1C72@yahoo.com>
	<CA+H6KC=jKmB2VN7GWMx0Yot7YunHpWNG=i5111yncACKaYHgPA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+H6KCkDs4NKNSEHNbG=CBDfxBnXZ1tQdW4sJQ-x1ZjFaA7kBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMyt5OQ1h4pRUbQPEhXdNt4bxfoPV0cKnH6s9RGfRvt4fVSFog@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+H6KCmYH+T1apcMb4GNr3--aQyEzDATESL=fz7jDmB3_KKy=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMyt5OTU0bMtRikk-R4NrBTB4u7PKEXDT6ygDdRNC55_aoiMVg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+H6KCmX6X2oHCyVo1yVLN-n65OK1xF8dCkeCMARH02F7osTmA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1511809739.3894.1612986761975@connect.xfinity.com>

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From teletypeparts at comcast.net  Wed Feb 10 15:03:55 2021
From: teletypeparts at comcast.net (WAYNE)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2021 15:03:55 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [GreenKeys] UPDATE- shockingly basic question - Teletype Model
 33 ASR
In-Reply-To: <1511809739.3894.1612986761975@connect.xfinity.com>
References: <B89CF151-3196-4D55-A45D-B426569310B6@gmail.com>
	<C2BFE42A-19EA-46EF-AFF2-2474709B1C72@yahoo.com>
	<CA+H6KC=jKmB2VN7GWMx0Yot7YunHpWNG=i5111yncACKaYHgPA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+H6KCkDs4NKNSEHNbG=CBDfxBnXZ1tQdW4sJQ-x1ZjFaA7kBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMyt5OQ1h4pRUbQPEhXdNt4bxfoPV0cKnH6s9RGfRvt4fVSFog@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+H6KCmYH+T1apcMb4GNr3--aQyEzDATESL=fz7jDmB3_KKy=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMyt5OTU0bMtRikk-R4NrBTB4u7PKEXDT6ygDdRNC55_aoiMVg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+H6KCmX6X2oHCyVo1yVLN-n65OK1xF8dCkeCMARH02F7osTmA@mail.gmail.com>
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Message-ID: <1506622151.4012.1612987441926@connect.xfinity.com>

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From kn4ucl at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 16:12:26 2021
From: kn4ucl at gmail.com (Andy KN4UCL)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2021 16:12:26 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] UPDATE- shockingly basic question - Teletype Model
	33 ASR
In-Reply-To: <1687318958.3916.1612985996866@connect.xfinity.com>
References: <B89CF151-3196-4D55-A45D-B426569310B6@gmail.com>
	<C2BFE42A-19EA-46EF-AFF2-2474709B1C72@yahoo.com>
	<CA+H6KC=jKmB2VN7GWMx0Yot7YunHpWNG=i5111yncACKaYHgPA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+H6KCkDs4NKNSEHNbG=CBDfxBnXZ1tQdW4sJQ-x1ZjFaA7kBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMyt5OQ1h4pRUbQPEhXdNt4bxfoPV0cKnH6s9RGfRvt4fVSFog@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+H6KCmYH+T1apcMb4GNr3--aQyEzDATESL=fz7jDmB3_KKy=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMyt5OTU0bMtRikk-R4NrBTB4u7PKEXDT6ygDdRNC55_aoiMVg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+H6KCmX6X2oHCyVo1yVLN-n65OK1xF8dCkeCMARH02F7osTmA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1687318958.3916.1612985996866@connect.xfinity.com>
Message-ID: <CA+H6KCnoocVQuQB9Q-JUTuTqfh2XRdRe6r1s1NLxac48Cim9eQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Wayne - thx for the info!

Apologies I was not so precise in my description: When I apply power (in
the OFF position) the buzzing starts. It's quite loud and at the rear of
the machine.

When I go into LOCAL or LINE, I get the garbled characters.

Check out my tiny video     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri42KBN6kPM

cheers!
Andy

On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 2:40 PM WAYNE <teletypeparts at comcast.net> wrote:

> Andy,
>
> The trouble is the smaller electrolytic capacitor in the front of the
> UCC-6.  Just in front of the large green multi-tap resistor.   250 MFD at
> 75VDC.  Very common trouble.
>
> I have a couple used ones but you might want to order a new one from
> Mouser.  I think I would get 2 so you would have another for the second
> 33.
>
> Also the 1500 MF at 30VDC electrolytic that lays behind the SMD card will
> cause a buzzing when you push the armature open with power plugged in and
> 33 in OFF position.
>
> But loud buzzing when power plugged in is definitely the smaller cap.
>
> 73,
>
> Wayne
>
>
>
> On 02/09/2021 8:47 PM Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I removed the SMD card and took a photo (see attached) and all looks
> visually OK.  Before swapping with the other one I popped it back in just
> to make sure things were as before... but yikes!  Quite a buzzing sound in
> Line or Local.  Line was no longer working and Local would not type very
> faithfully. Buzzing did not stop so I quickly powered off, and when I did
> there was a gentle mechanical  'pop' as the power released. I removed and
> repositioned the card ... but same symptoms.
>
> Thought I'd better power off before something starts burning!
>
> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 7:21 PM Michael Katzmann < vk2bea at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Try swapping the selector magnet driver card between the two units. (
> vertical card on the right hand edge). If you are having problems in local
> then it is not the RS232-current loop circuit but it might be the magnet
> driver.
>
> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 4:53 PM Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> So RIGHT NOW the machine is running great, just like in the video from
> 1:42s  onwards.  It also prints perfectly in Local mode as well right now,
> no matter how fast I try to type.
>
> However - it will intermittently go back to garbage output, as is shown
> prior to 1:42s in the video.
>
> When I was testing in Local last night it was OK typing slowly, but typing
> a little fast caused garbage output.
>
> So I think the terminal is intermittently behaving badly, in LIne and
> Local.
>
> But.. of course... right now it is behaving itself!
>
> cheers
> Andy
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 2:21 PM Michael Katzmann < vk2bea at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> I don't see this as a parity issue. I would expect the ASR33 typing unit
> to ignore parity on receive. Although, I think the tape punch will punch
> the eighth bit (or parity) if received.
> Likewise the tape reader will read and send all eight bits.
>
> Does the ASR read a tape and print consistently in local ?
> I'd be suspicious of the RS232 converter. If you have an oscilloscope and
> can look at the RS232 input compared with the current loop output it may
> prove or dispel this hypothesis.
>
> Michael
>
> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 1:22 PM Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Well I was hoping that it was either my serial loop adapter acting up, or
> a cabling-from-serial-converter-to-terminal-server problem.  I've replaced
> everything (including the terminal server) but sadly no obvious fix.
>
>    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-w-HCXI25E
>
> I've got two similar 33s (both no parity keyboards) and I've had them both
> running at the same time connected to my terminal server for a while now.
> Recently I get very garbled data on one of them. It doesn't seem to be
> related to the connected equipment or cabling as I've replaced everything.
>
> Then... very weirdly it starts working again, as you can see  at 1:42s on
> the video.
>
> Apart from fiddling about with the rangefinder, any other thoughts about
> (simple ?) tests or adjustments I can make to diagnose this?
>
> thanks folks.
> Andy
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 3:33 PM Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> OK well this is all very embarrassing. I have two almost identical 33s
> (both non-parity) .... the other one works great connected to my Terminal
> Server so thought I'd better  swap the RS232 Adapters, port and cable.. and
> hey presto - my "not working due to parity errors" Teletype started running
> fine!
>
> I then swapped back to the original RS232 adapter, cables and port...
> expecting things to NOT work... but of course, everything ran fine (sigh.)
>
> I've tried jiggling the cables (I was hopeful maybe a weird cable problem
> could be the issue) but I am struggling to see how a wiring problem would
> look like a legit parity problem.
>
> Anyway! All good for now.. but I am curious what would cause these
> parity-like symptoms. I am going to replace the cables anyway, and probably
> grab another RS232 converter just in case.
>
> cheers!
> Andy
>
> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 11:05 PM Mike Douglas < deramp5113 at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> Since you are concerned about the parity of your keyboard while testing
> the TTY printing function, I assume your terminal server is in a mode where
> it echos characters that you type on the TTY keyboard back out to the TTY
> printer and you are testing your printer by typing on the TTY keyboard?
>
> If this is what you?re doing and you have a non-parity keyboard, then set
> the serial port to 7 data bits plus mark parity (non parity keyboards set
> the 8th bit to one). This should ensure the server accepts the typed
> characters. If you type one character at a time with a short pause between
> each character, then each character should echo properly to the TTY
> printer. The pause between each character will be more than the two stop
> bits the printer requires (and the printer ignores the 8th bit).
>
> If, however, you have a telnet session open and are sending data from a
> remote device to the TTY printer and are not using the TTY keyboard to
> generate test data, then set the serial port to 8 data bits plus mark
> parity. This will appear as 8 data bits and 2 stop bits to the printer (as
> it requires) and the printer can then keep up with a steady stream of data.
>
> If you are getting some garbage characters with either of these methods
> but everything prints correctly in local mode, you made need to adjust the
> rangefinder a bit.
>
> Mike
>
> On Feb 3, 2021, at 9:22 PM, Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> My Teletype has a Deramp converter which goes direct into an Equinox
> ELS-16 terminal server.  When I start I get a session with the terminal
> server and can interact directly with the server ... or telnet onwards
> elsewhere.
>
> On Feb 3, 2021, at 10:00 PM, Mike Douglas < deramp5113 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I guess I?m confused as to your test setup then. What is sending data to
> your Teletype? Is it coming from an external source other than the
> Teletype, or are you testing by somehow looping keyboard input from your
> TTY back out to the TTY printer?
>
> Mike
>
> On Feb 3, 2021, at 8:36 PM, Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I think I am still missing a trick or two here...I tried every combination
> of 8 and 7 even/odd/none/mark/space and I get no printing at all with 8
> bit, but moderately bad spelling errors with 7.  See attachment below...
> presumably this means I have the non-parity keyboard?
>
> thanks in advance for your thoughts!
> Andy
>
> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 8:18 PM Mike Douglas < deramp5113 at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> If you select 8 bit with mark parity on your terminal server, you?ll
> probably get the 8N2 timing the Teletype requires (the mark parity bit
> serves as the first stop bit).
>
> Mike
>
> On Jan 31, 2021, at 7:11 PM, Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks guys for the responses - a lot of great info for me to digest!
>
> My terminal server (Equinox ELS-16) allows me to define character size as
> 7 or 8 bits, and to set parity as NONE, ODD, EVEN, MARK or SPACE.
>
> I don't seem to have the ability to specifically state the number of stop
> bits, however.
>
>
> Anyway.. I'm going to crack my Teletype open and confirm exactly what's
> going on.
> cheers!
> Andy
>
> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 5:43 PM Keith Lueck < kwlueck at swbell.net> wrote:
>
>
> Jim & Wayne are spot-on, of course.  I learned the hard way that you best
> include the parity bit - even though the 33 doesn't give a whit about
> parity...
> My machine was occasionally producing errors when I was feeding it 7 N 2.
> Wayne Durkee set me straight, and, viola, when I sent it 7 M 2, everything
> was 100% ducky.
>
> On Sunday, January 31, 2021, 03:32:30 PM CST, Jim Haynes <
> jhhaynes at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
> All the 33s and 35s generate 11 unit code.  1 start bit, 7 data bits, one
> bit which may be even parity or may be marking, and two stop bits.  That's
> where 110 baud comes from. 100 wpm = 10 chars/sec and each char contains
> 11 bits.  The reason for two stop bits is the difficulty of making a
> mechanical selector that is reliable at 100 wpm.
>
>     ---
>
>     "Ya can argue all ya wanna, but it's dif'rent than it was."
>     "No it ain't! No it ain't!  But ya gotta know the territory."
>         Meredith Willson, The Music Man
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto: GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to kwlueck at swbell.net
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto: GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>
> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>
> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>
> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to deramp5113 at yahoo.com
>
> <non parity keyboard.png>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto: GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to vk2bea at gmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>    |\      _,,,---,,_             Michael Katzmann
>    /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_         NV3Z / VK2BEA / G4NYV
>   |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'
>  '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)             vk2bea at gmail.com
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to teletypeparts at comcast.net
>
>
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From wa3frp at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 16:47:01 2021
From: wa3frp at gmail.com (Russ Miller)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2021 16:47:01 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] UPDATE- shockingly basic question - Teletype Model
	33 ASR
In-Reply-To: <CA+H6KCnoocVQuQB9Q-JUTuTqfh2XRdRe6r1s1NLxac48Cim9eQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+H6KCnoocVQuQB9Q-JUTuTqfh2XRdRe6r1s1NLxac48Cim9eQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F9B4104A-544A-4DC2-82E5-527E75016FED@gmail.com>

Andy,

If you are gaining data bits, put a voltmeter on the DC supply to the magnets to see how much AC is present.  The 1500 mf capacitor is a common failure point in these older machines.

Russ WA3FRP 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 10, 2021, at 4:14 PM, Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Hey Wayne - thx for the info!
> 
> Apologies I was not so precise in my description: When I apply power (in the OFF position) the buzzing starts. It's quite loud and at the rear of the machine.
> 
> When I go into LOCAL or LINE, I get the garbled characters.
> 
> Check out my tiny video     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri42KBN6kPM
> 
> cheers!
> Andy
> 
>> On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 2:40 PM WAYNE <teletypeparts at comcast.net> wrote:
>> Andy,
>>  
>> The trouble is the smaller electrolytic capacitor in the front of the UCC-6.  Just in front of the large green multi-tap resistor.   250 MFD at 75VDC.  Very common trouble.  
>>  
>> I have a couple used ones but you might want to order a new one from Mouser.  I think I would get 2 so you would have another for the second 33.  
>>  
>> Also the 1500 MF at 30VDC electrolytic that lays behind the SMD card will cause a buzzing when you push the armature open with power plugged in and 33 in OFF position.  
>>  
>> But loud buzzing when power plugged in is definitely the smaller cap.
>>  
>> 73,
>>  
>> Wayne
>>  
>>  
>>> On 02/09/2021 8:47 PM Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>  
>>>  
>>> I removed the SMD card and took a photo (see attached) and all looks visually OK.  Before swapping with the other one I popped it back in just to make sure things were as before... but yikes!  Quite a buzzing sound in Line or Local.  Line was no longer working and Local would not type very faithfully. Buzzing did not stop so I quickly powered off, and when I did there was a gentle mechanical  'pop' as the power released. I removed and repositioned the card ... but same symptoms. 
>>>  
>>> Thought I'd better power off before something starts burning!
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 7:21 PM Michael Katzmann < vk2bea at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Try swapping the selector magnet driver card between the two units. ( vertical card on the right hand edge). If you are having problems in local then it is not the RS232-current loop circuit but it might be the magnet driver.
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 4:53 PM Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> So RIGHT NOW the machine is running great, just like in the video from 1:42s  onwards.  It also prints perfectly in Local mode as well right now, no matter how fast I try to type.
>>>  
>>> However - it will intermittently go back to garbage output, as is shown prior to 1:42s in the video.
>>>  
>>> When I was testing in Local last night it was OK typing slowly, but typing a little fast caused garbage output.
>>>  
>>> So I think the terminal is intermittently behaving badly, in LIne and Local.
>>>  
>>> But.. of course... right now it is behaving itself!
>>>  
>>> cheers
>>> Andy
>>>  
>>>  
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 2:21 PM Michael Katzmann < vk2bea at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I don't see this as a parity issue. I would expect the ASR33 typing unit to ignore parity on receive. Although, I think the tape punch will punch the eighth bit (or parity) if received.
>>> Likewise the tape reader will read and send all eight bits.
>>>  
>>> Does the ASR read a tape and print consistently in local ?
>>> I'd be suspicious of the RS232 converter. If you have an oscilloscope and can look at the RS232 input compared with the current loop output it may prove or dispel this hypothesis.
>>>  
>>> Michael
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 1:22 PM Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Well I was hoping that it was either my serial loop adapter acting up, or a cabling-from-serial-converter-to-terminal-server problem.  I've replaced everything (including the terminal server) but sadly no obvious fix.
>>>  
>>>    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-w-HCXI25E
>>>  
>>> I've got two similar 33s (both no parity keyboards) and I've had them both running at the same time connected to my terminal server for a while now.  Recently I get very garbled data on one of them. It doesn't seem to be related to the connected equipment or cabling as I've replaced everything.
>>>  
>>> Then... very weirdly it starts working again, as you can see  at 1:42s on the video.
>>>  
>>> Apart from fiddling about with the rangefinder, any other thoughts about (simple ?) tests or adjustments I can make to diagnose this?
>>>  
>>> thanks folks.
>>> Andy
>>>  
>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 3:33 PM Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> OK well this is all very embarrassing. I have two almost identical 33s (both non-parity) .... the other one works great connected to my Terminal Server so thought I'd better  swap the RS232 Adapters, port and cable.. and hey presto - my "not working due to parity errors" Teletype started running fine!
>>>  
>>> I then swapped back to the original RS232 adapter, cables and port... expecting things to NOT work... but of course, everything ran fine (sigh.)
>>>  
>>> I've tried jiggling the cables (I was hopeful maybe a weird cable problem could be the issue) but I am struggling to see how a wiring problem would look like a legit parity problem.
>>>  
>>> Anyway! All good for now.. but I am curious what would cause these parity-like symptoms. I am going to replace the cables anyway, and probably grab another RS232 converter just in case.
>>>  
>>> cheers!
>>> Andy
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 11:05 PM Mike Douglas < deramp5113 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Since you are concerned about the parity of your keyboard while testing the TTY printing function, I assume your terminal server is in a mode where it echos characters that you type on the TTY keyboard back out to the TTY printer and you are testing your printer by typing on the TTY keyboard?
>>>  
>>> If this is what you?re doing and you have a non-parity keyboard, then set the serial port to 7 data bits plus mark parity (non parity keyboards set the 8th bit to one). This should ensure the server accepts the typed characters. If you type one character at a time with a short pause between each character, then each character should echo properly to the TTY printer. The pause between each character will be more than the two stop bits the printer requires (and the printer ignores the 8th bit). 
>>>  
>>> If, however, you have a telnet session open and are sending data from a remote device to the TTY printer and are not using the TTY keyboard to generate test data, then set the serial port to 8 data bits plus mark parity. This will appear as 8 data bits and 2 stop bits to the printer (as it requires) and the printer can then keep up with a steady stream of data.
>>>  
>>> If you are getting some garbage characters with either of these methods but everything prints correctly in local mode, you made need to adjust the rangefinder a bit.
>>>  
>>> Mike
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 9:22 PM, Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote: 
>>>> 
>>>> My Teletype has a Deramp converter which goes direct into an Equinox ELS-16 terminal server.  When I start I get a session with the terminal server and can interact directly with the server ... or telnet onwards elsewhere.
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 10:00 PM, Mike Douglas < deramp5113 at yahoo.com> wrote: 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I guess I?m confused as to your test setup then. What is sending data to your Teletype? Is it coming from an external source other than the Teletype, or are you testing by somehow looping keyboard input from your TTY back out to the TTY printer?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Mike
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 8:36 PM, Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote: 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I think I am still missing a trick or two here...I tried every combination of 8 and 7 even/odd/none/mark/space and I get no printing at all with 8 bit, but moderately bad spelling errors with 7.  See attachment below... presumably this means I have the non-parity keyboard?
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> thanks in advance for your thoughts!
>>>>>> Andy
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 8:18 PM Mike Douglas < deramp5113 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>> If you select 8 bit with mark parity on your terminal server, you?ll probably get the 8N2 timing the Teletype requires (the mark parity bit serves as the first stop bit).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Jan 31, 2021, at 7:11 PM, Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote: 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks guys for the responses - a lot of great info for me to digest! 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> My terminal server (Equinox ELS-16) allows me to define character size as 7 or 8 bits, and to set parity as NONE, ODD, EVEN, MARK or SPACE.
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> I don't seem to have the ability to specifically state the number of stop bits, however.
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> Anyway.. I'm going to crack my Teletype open and confirm exactly what's going on.
>>>>>>> cheers!
>>>>>>> Andy
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 5:43 PM Keith Lueck < kwlueck at swbell.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> Jim & Wayne are spot-on, of course.  I learned the hard way that you best include the parity bit - even though the 33 doesn't give a whit about parity...  
>>>>>>> My machine was occasionally producing errors when I was feeding it 7 N 2.  Wayne Durkee set me straight, and, viola, when I sent it 7 M 2, everything was 100% ducky.  
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> On Sunday, January 31, 2021, 03:32:30 PM CST, Jim Haynes < jhhaynes at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> All the 33s and 35s generate 11 unit code.  1 start bit, 7 data bits, one 
>>>>>>> bit which may be even parity or may be marking, and two stop bits.  That's 
>>>>>>> where 110 baud comes from. 100 wpm = 10 chars/sec and each char contains 
>>>>>>> 11 bits.  The reason for two stop bits is the difficulty of making a 
>>>>>>> mechanical selector that is reliable at 100 wpm. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>     --- 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>     "Ya can argue all ya wanna, but it's dif'rent than it was." 
>>>>>>>     "No it ain't! No it ain't!  But ya gotta know the territory." 
>>>>>>>         Meredith Willson, The Music Man
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ______________________________________________________________ 
>>>>>>> GreenKeys mailing list 
>>>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys 
>>>>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm 
>>>>>>> Post: mailto: GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch 
>>>>>>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/ 
>>>>>>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html 
>>>>>>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net 
>>>>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html 
>>>>>>> Message delivered to kwlueck at swbell.net
>>>>>>> ______________________________________________________________ 
>>>>>>> GreenKeys mailing list 
>>>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys 
>>>>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm 
>>>>>>> Post: mailto: GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>>>>>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>>>>>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>>>>>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net 
>>>>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html 
>>>>>>> Message delivered to deramp5113 at yahoo.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> <non parity keyboard.png>
>>> ______________________________________________________________ 
>>> GreenKeys mailing list 
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys 
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto: GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net 
>>> 
>>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch 
>>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/ 
>>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html 
>>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html 
>>> 
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net 
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html 
>>> Message delivered to vk2bea at gmail.com
>>> 
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> -- 
>>>    |\      _,,,---,,_             Michael Katzmann
>>>    /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_         NV3Z / VK2BEA / G4NYV
>>>   |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-' 
>>>  '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)             vk2bea at gmail.com
>>>  
>>>  
>>> ______________________________________________________________ 
>>> GreenKeys mailing list 
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys 
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm 
>>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net 
>>> 
>>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch 
>>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/ 
>>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html 
>>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html 
>>> 
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net 
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html 
>>> Message delivered to teletypeparts at comcast.net
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> 
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to wa3frp at gmail.com
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From kn4ucl at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 17:37:00 2021
From: kn4ucl at gmail.com (Andy KN4UCL)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2021 17:37:00 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] UPDATE- shockingly basic question - Teletype Model
	33 ASR
In-Reply-To: <F9B4104A-544A-4DC2-82E5-527E75016FED@gmail.com>
References: <F9B4104A-544A-4DC2-82E5-527E75016FED@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A817D6B2-1B6F-4CD6-B8D8-B388D0A15AB7@gmail.com>

Thanks Russ... although I am not going to lie, I have no idea if I am gaining or losing ?

> On Feb 10, 2021, at 4:47 PM, Russ Miller <wa3frp at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?Andy,
> 
> If you are gaining data bits, put a voltmeter on the DC supply to the magnets to see how much AC is present.  The 1500 mf capacitor is a common failure point in these older machines.
> 
> Russ WA3FRP 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Feb 10, 2021, at 4:14 PM, Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?
>> Hey Wayne - thx for the info!
>> 
>> Apologies I was not so precise in my description: When I apply power (in the OFF position) the buzzing starts. It's quite loud and at the rear of the machine.
>> 
>> When I go into LOCAL or LINE, I get the garbled characters.
>> 
>> Check out my tiny video     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri42KBN6kPM
>> 
>> cheers!
>> Andy
>> 
>>> On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 2:40 PM WAYNE <teletypeparts at comcast.net> wrote:
>>> Andy,
>>>  
>>> The trouble is the smaller electrolytic capacitor in the front of the UCC-6.  Just in front of the large green multi-tap resistor.   250 MFD at 75VDC.  Very common trouble.  
>>>  
>>> I have a couple used ones but you might want to order a new one from Mouser.  I think I would get 2 so you would have another for the second 33.  
>>>  
>>> Also the 1500 MF at 30VDC electrolytic that lays behind the SMD card will cause a buzzing when you push the armature open with power plugged in and 33 in OFF position.  
>>>  
>>> But loud buzzing when power plugged in is definitely the smaller cap.
>>>  
>>> 73,
>>>  
>>> Wayne
>>>  
>>>  
>>>> On 02/09/2021 8:47 PM Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> I removed the SMD card and took a photo (see attached) and all looks visually OK.  Before swapping with the other one I popped it back in just to make sure things were as before... but yikes!  Quite a buzzing sound in Line or Local.  Line was no longer working and Local would not type very faithfully. Buzzing did not stop so I quickly powered off, and when I did there was a gentle mechanical  'pop' as the power released. I removed and repositioned the card ... but same symptoms. 
>>>>  
>>>> Thought I'd better power off before something starts burning!
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 7:21 PM Michael Katzmann < vk2bea at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Try swapping the selector magnet driver card between the two units. ( vertical card on the right hand edge). If you are having problems in local then it is not the RS232-current loop circuit but it might be the magnet driver.
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 4:53 PM Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> So RIGHT NOW the machine is running great, just like in the video from 1:42s  onwards.  It also prints perfectly in Local mode as well right now, no matter how fast I try to type.
>>>>  
>>>> However - it will intermittently go back to garbage output, as is shown prior to 1:42s in the video.
>>>>  
>>>> When I was testing in Local last night it was OK typing slowly, but typing a little fast caused garbage output.
>>>>  
>>>> So I think the terminal is intermittently behaving badly, in LIne and Local.
>>>>  
>>>> But.. of course... right now it is behaving itself!
>>>>  
>>>> cheers
>>>> Andy
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 2:21 PM Michael Katzmann < vk2bea at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I don't see this as a parity issue. I would expect the ASR33 typing unit to ignore parity on receive. Although, I think the tape punch will punch the eighth bit (or parity) if received.
>>>> Likewise the tape reader will read and send all eight bits.
>>>>  
>>>> Does the ASR read a tape and print consistently in local ?
>>>> I'd be suspicious of the RS232 converter. If you have an oscilloscope and can look at the RS232 input compared with the current loop output it may prove or dispel this hypothesis.
>>>>  
>>>> Michael
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 1:22 PM Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Well I was hoping that it was either my serial loop adapter acting up, or a cabling-from-serial-converter-to-terminal-server problem.  I've replaced everything (including the terminal server) but sadly no obvious fix.
>>>>  
>>>>    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-w-HCXI25E
>>>>  
>>>> I've got two similar 33s (both no parity keyboards) and I've had them both running at the same time connected to my terminal server for a while now.  Recently I get very garbled data on one of them. It doesn't seem to be related to the connected equipment or cabling as I've replaced everything.
>>>>  
>>>> Then... very weirdly it starts working again, as you can see  at 1:42s on the video.
>>>>  
>>>> Apart from fiddling about with the rangefinder, any other thoughts about (simple ?) tests or adjustments I can make to diagnose this?
>>>>  
>>>> thanks folks.
>>>> Andy
>>>>  
>>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 3:33 PM Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> OK well this is all very embarrassing. I have two almost identical 33s (both non-parity) .... the other one works great connected to my Terminal Server so thought I'd better  swap the RS232 Adapters, port and cable.. and hey presto - my "not working due to parity errors" Teletype started running fine!
>>>>  
>>>> I then swapped back to the original RS232 adapter, cables and port... expecting things to NOT work... but of course, everything ran fine (sigh.)
>>>>  
>>>> I've tried jiggling the cables (I was hopeful maybe a weird cable problem could be the issue) but I am struggling to see how a wiring problem would look like a legit parity problem.
>>>>  
>>>> Anyway! All good for now.. but I am curious what would cause these parity-like symptoms. I am going to replace the cables anyway, and probably grab another RS232 converter just in case.
>>>>  
>>>> cheers!
>>>> Andy
>>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 11:05 PM Mike Douglas < deramp5113 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> Since you are concerned about the parity of your keyboard while testing the TTY printing function, I assume your terminal server is in a mode where it echos characters that you type on the TTY keyboard back out to the TTY printer and you are testing your printer by typing on the TTY keyboard?
>>>>  
>>>> If this is what you?re doing and you have a non-parity keyboard, then set the serial port to 7 data bits plus mark parity (non parity keyboards set the 8th bit to one). This should ensure the server accepts the typed characters. If you type one character at a time with a short pause between each character, then each character should echo properly to the TTY printer. The pause between each character will be more than the two stop bits the printer requires (and the printer ignores the 8th bit). 
>>>>  
>>>> If, however, you have a telnet session open and are sending data from a remote device to the TTY printer and are not using the TTY keyboard to generate test data, then set the serial port to 8 data bits plus mark parity. This will appear as 8 data bits and 2 stop bits to the printer (as it requires) and the printer can then keep up with a steady stream of data.
>>>>  
>>>> If you are getting some garbage characters with either of these methods but everything prints correctly in local mode, you made need to adjust the rangefinder a bit.
>>>>  
>>>> Mike
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 9:22 PM, Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote: 
>>>>> 
>>>>> My Teletype has a Deramp converter which goes direct into an Equinox ELS-16 terminal server.  When I start I get a session with the terminal server and can interact directly with the server ... or telnet onwards elsewhere.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 10:00 PM, Mike Douglas < deramp5113 at yahoo.com> wrote: 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I guess I?m confused as to your test setup then. What is sending data to your Teletype? Is it coming from an external source other than the Teletype, or are you testing by somehow looping keyboard input from your TTY back out to the TTY printer?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 8:36 PM, Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote: 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I think I am still missing a trick or two here...I tried every combination of 8 and 7 even/odd/none/mark/space and I get no printing at all with 8 bit, but moderately bad spelling errors with 7.  See attachment below... presumably this means I have the non-parity keyboard?
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> thanks in advance for your thoughts!
>>>>>>> Andy
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 8:18 PM Mike Douglas < deramp5113 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> If you select 8 bit with mark parity on your terminal server, you?ll probably get the 8N2 timing the Teletype requires (the mark parity bit serves as the first stop bit).
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Jan 31, 2021, at 7:11 PM, Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote: 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Thanks guys for the responses - a lot of great info for me to digest! 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> My terminal server (Equinox ELS-16) allows me to define character size as 7 or 8 bits, and to set parity as NONE, ODD, EVEN, MARK or SPACE.
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> I don't seem to have the ability to specifically state the number of stop bits, however.
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> Anyway.. I'm going to crack my Teletype open and confirm exactly what's going on.
>>>>>>>> cheers!
>>>>>>>> Andy
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 5:43 PM Keith Lueck < kwlueck at swbell.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> Jim & Wayne are spot-on, of course.  I learned the hard way that you best include the parity bit - even though the 33 doesn't give a whit about parity...  
>>>>>>>> My machine was occasionally producing errors when I was feeding it 7 N 2.  Wayne Durkee set me straight, and, viola, when I sent it 7 M 2, everything was 100% ducky.  
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> On Sunday, January 31, 2021, 03:32:30 PM CST, Jim Haynes < jhhaynes at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> All the 33s and 35s generate 11 unit code.  1 start bit, 7 data bits, one 
>>>>>>>> bit which may be even parity or may be marking, and two stop bits.  That's 
>>>>>>>> where 110 baud comes from. 100 wpm = 10 chars/sec and each char contains 
>>>>>>>> 11 bits.  The reason for two stop bits is the difficulty of making a 
>>>>>>>> mechanical selector that is reliable at 100 wpm. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>     --- 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>     "Ya can argue all ya wanna, but it's dif'rent than it was." 
>>>>>>>>     "No it ain't! No it ain't!  But ya gotta know the territory." 
>>>>>>>>         Meredith Willson, The Music Man
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________________________ 
>>>>>>>> GreenKeys mailing list 
>>>>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys 
>>>>>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm 
>>>>>>>> Post: mailto: GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch 
>>>>>>>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/ 
>>>>>>>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html 
>>>>>>>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net 
>>>>>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html 
>>>>>>>> Message delivered to kwlueck at swbell.net
>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________________________ 
>>>>>>>> GreenKeys mailing list 
>>>>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys 
>>>>>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>>>>>> Post: mailto: GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>>>>>>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>>>>>>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>>>>>>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net 
>>>>>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html 
>>>>>>>> Message delivered to deramp5113 at yahoo.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> <non parity keyboard.png>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________ 
>>>> GreenKeys mailing list 
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys 
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm 
>>>> Post: mailto: GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net 
>>>> 
>>>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch 
>>>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/ 
>>>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html 
>>>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html 
>>>> 
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net 
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html 
>>>> Message delivered to vk2bea at gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> -- 
>>>>    |\      _,,,---,,_             Michael Katzmann
>>>>    /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_         NV3Z / VK2BEA / G4NYV
>>>>   |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-' 
>>>>  '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)             vk2bea at gmail.com
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> ______________________________________________________________ 
>>>> GreenKeys mailing list 
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys 
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm 
>>>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net 
>>>> 
>>>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch 
>>>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/ 
>>>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html 
>>>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html 
>>>> 
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net 
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html 
>>>> Message delivered to teletypeparts at comcast.net
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> GreenKeys mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>> 
>>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>> 
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to wa3frp at gmail.com
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From wa3frp at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 17:53:12 2021
From: wa3frp at gmail.com (Russ Miller)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2021 17:53:12 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] UPDATE- shockingly basic question - Teletype Model
	33 ASR
In-Reply-To: <A817D6B2-1B6F-4CD6-B8D8-B388D0A15AB7@gmail.com>
References: <A817D6B2-1B6F-4CD6-B8D8-B388D0A15AB7@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A7883DF6-15C1-41A5-957D-14F868E73007@gmail.com>

Andy,

Not difficult to find out!  Do you have access to an ASCII code chart?  If not, I can send you a photo.  

Try pressing a single character on the keyboard repeatedly and not when the character prints incorrectly.  If there is AC ripple on the DC supply to the selector magnets, you will see random characters but the random characters are caused by the lack of a pure DC supply.  The AC ripple imposed on the DC current will cause random bits to be added to the original character as processed by the selector magnets.

For example, the letter A is created by a bit in the 1 position and another bit in the 7 position.  Say you type A and you get C occasionally... that is because the selector magnets saw bits in positions 1, 2 and 7.  The extra bit, in the second position, was added by the AC ripple on the DC going through the magnets. 

Crystal clear or clear as mud?

Russ

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 10, 2021, at 5:37 PM, Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Thanks Russ... although I am not going to lie, I have no idea if I am gaining or losing ?
> 
>>> On Feb 10, 2021, at 4:47 PM, Russ Miller <wa3frp at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?Andy,
>> 
>> If you are gaining data bits, put a voltmeter on the DC supply to the magnets to see how much AC is present.  The 1500 mf capacitor is a common failure point in these older machines.
>> 
>> Russ WA3FRP 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>> On Feb 10, 2021, at 4:14 PM, Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>> ?
>>> Hey Wayne - thx for the info!
>>> 
>>> Apologies I was not so precise in my description: When I apply power (in the OFF position) the buzzing starts. It's quite loud and at the rear of the machine.
>>> 
>>> When I go into LOCAL or LINE, I get the garbled characters.
>>> 
>>> Check out my tiny video     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri42KBN6kPM
>>> 
>>> cheers!
>>> Andy
>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 2:40 PM WAYNE <teletypeparts at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> Andy,
>>>>  
>>>> The trouble is the smaller electrolytic capacitor in the front of the UCC-6.  Just in front of the large green multi-tap resistor.   250 MFD at 75VDC.  Very common trouble.  
>>>>  
>>>> I have a couple used ones but you might want to order a new one from Mouser.  I think I would get 2 so you would have another for the second 33.  
>>>>  
>>>> Also the 1500 MF at 30VDC electrolytic that lays behind the SMD card will cause a buzzing when you push the armature open with power plugged in and 33 in OFF position.  
>>>>  
>>>> But loud buzzing when power plugged in is definitely the smaller cap.
>>>>  
>>>> 73,
>>>>  
>>>> Wayne
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>> On 02/09/2021 8:47 PM Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>> I removed the SMD card and took a photo (see attached) and all looks visually OK.  Before swapping with the other one I popped it back in just to make sure things were as before... but yikes!  Quite a buzzing sound in Line or Local.  Line was no longer working and Local would not type very faithfully. Buzzing did not stop so I quickly powered off, and when I did there was a gentle mechanical  'pop' as the power released. I removed and repositioned the card ... but same symptoms. 
>>>>>  
>>>>> Thought I'd better power off before something starts burning!
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 7:21 PM Michael Katzmann < vk2bea at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Try swapping the selector magnet driver card between the two units. ( vertical card on the right hand edge). If you are having problems in local then it is not the RS232-current loop circuit but it might be the magnet driver.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 4:53 PM Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> So RIGHT NOW the machine is running great, just like in the video from 1:42s  onwards.  It also prints perfectly in Local mode as well right now, no matter how fast I try to type.
>>>>>  
>>>>> However - it will intermittently go back to garbage output, as is shown prior to 1:42s in the video.
>>>>>  
>>>>> When I was testing in Local last night it was OK typing slowly, but typing a little fast caused garbage output.
>>>>>  
>>>>> So I think the terminal is intermittently behaving badly, in LIne and Local.
>>>>>  
>>>>> But.. of course... right now it is behaving itself!
>>>>>  
>>>>> cheers
>>>>> Andy
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 2:21 PM Michael Katzmann < vk2bea at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I don't see this as a parity issue. I would expect the ASR33 typing unit to ignore parity on receive. Although, I think the tape punch will punch the eighth bit (or parity) if received.
>>>>> Likewise the tape reader will read and send all eight bits.
>>>>>  
>>>>> Does the ASR read a tape and print consistently in local ?
>>>>> I'd be suspicious of the RS232 converter. If you have an oscilloscope and can look at the RS232 input compared with the current loop output it may prove or dispel this hypothesis.
>>>>>  
>>>>> Michael
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 1:22 PM Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Well I was hoping that it was either my serial loop adapter acting up, or a cabling-from-serial-converter-to-terminal-server problem.  I've replaced everything (including the terminal server) but sadly no obvious fix.
>>>>>  
>>>>>    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-w-HCXI25E
>>>>>  
>>>>> I've got two similar 33s (both no parity keyboards) and I've had them both running at the same time connected to my terminal server for a while now.  Recently I get very garbled data on one of them. It doesn't seem to be related to the connected equipment or cabling as I've replaced everything.
>>>>>  
>>>>> Then... very weirdly it starts working again, as you can see  at 1:42s on the video.
>>>>>  
>>>>> Apart from fiddling about with the rangefinder, any other thoughts about (simple ?) tests or adjustments I can make to diagnose this?
>>>>>  
>>>>> thanks folks.
>>>>> Andy
>>>>>  
>>>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 3:33 PM Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> OK well this is all very embarrassing. I have two almost identical 33s (both non-parity) .... the other one works great connected to my Terminal Server so thought I'd better  swap the RS232 Adapters, port and cable.. and hey presto - my "not working due to parity errors" Teletype started running fine!
>>>>>  
>>>>> I then swapped back to the original RS232 adapter, cables and port... expecting things to NOT work... but of course, everything ran fine (sigh.)
>>>>>  
>>>>> I've tried jiggling the cables (I was hopeful maybe a weird cable problem could be the issue) but I am struggling to see how a wiring problem would look like a legit parity problem.
>>>>>  
>>>>> Anyway! All good for now.. but I am curious what would cause these parity-like symptoms. I am going to replace the cables anyway, and probably grab another RS232 converter just in case.
>>>>>  
>>>>> cheers!
>>>>> Andy
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 11:05 PM Mike Douglas < deramp5113 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>> Since you are concerned about the parity of your keyboard while testing the TTY printing function, I assume your terminal server is in a mode where it echos characters that you type on the TTY keyboard back out to the TTY printer and you are testing your printer by typing on the TTY keyboard?
>>>>>  
>>>>> If this is what you?re doing and you have a non-parity keyboard, then set the serial port to 7 data bits plus mark parity (non parity keyboards set the 8th bit to one). This should ensure the server accepts the typed characters. If you type one character at a time with a short pause between each character, then each character should echo properly to the TTY printer. The pause between each character will be more than the two stop bits the printer requires (and the printer ignores the 8th bit). 
>>>>>  
>>>>> If, however, you have a telnet session open and are sending data from a remote device to the TTY printer and are not using the TTY keyboard to generate test data, then set the serial port to 8 data bits plus mark parity. This will appear as 8 data bits and 2 stop bits to the printer (as it requires) and the printer can then keep up with a steady stream of data.
>>>>>  
>>>>> If you are getting some garbage characters with either of these methods but everything prints correctly in local mode, you made need to adjust the rangefinder a bit.
>>>>>  
>>>>> Mike
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 9:22 PM, Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote: 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> My Teletype has a Deramp converter which goes direct into an Equinox ELS-16 terminal server.  When I start I get a session with the terminal server and can interact directly with the server ... or telnet onwards elsewhere.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 10:00 PM, Mike Douglas < deramp5113 at yahoo.com> wrote: 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I guess I?m confused as to your test setup then. What is sending data to your Teletype? Is it coming from an external source other than the Teletype, or are you testing by somehow looping keyboard input from your TTY back out to the TTY printer?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 8:36 PM, Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote: 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I think I am still missing a trick or two here...I tried every combination of 8 and 7 even/odd/none/mark/space and I get no printing at all with 8 bit, but moderately bad spelling errors with 7.  See attachment below... presumably this means I have the non-parity keyboard?
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> thanks in advance for your thoughts!
>>>>>>>> Andy
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 8:18 PM Mike Douglas < deramp5113 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> If you select 8 bit with mark parity on your terminal server, you?ll probably get the 8N2 timing the Teletype requires (the mark parity bit serves as the first stop bit).
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Jan 31, 2021, at 7:11 PM, Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote: 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Thanks guys for the responses - a lot of great info for me to digest! 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> My terminal server (Equinox ELS-16) allows me to define character size as 7 or 8 bits, and to set parity as NONE, ODD, EVEN, MARK or SPACE.
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> I don't seem to have the ability to specifically state the number of stop bits, however.
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> Anyway.. I'm going to crack my Teletype open and confirm exactly what's going on.
>>>>>>>>> cheers!
>>>>>>>>> Andy
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 5:43 PM Keith Lueck < kwlueck at swbell.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> Jim & Wayne are spot-on, of course.  I learned the hard way that you best include the parity bit - even though the 33 doesn't give a whit about parity...  
>>>>>>>>> My machine was occasionally producing errors when I was feeding it 7 N 2.  Wayne Durkee set me straight, and, viola, when I sent it 7 M 2, everything was 100% ducky.  
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, January 31, 2021, 03:32:30 PM CST, Jim Haynes < jhhaynes at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> All the 33s and 35s generate 11 unit code.  1 start bit, 7 data bits, one 
>>>>>>>>> bit which may be even parity or may be marking, and two stop bits.  That's 
>>>>>>>>> where 110 baud comes from. 100 wpm = 10 chars/sec and each char contains 
>>>>>>>>> 11 bits.  The reason for two stop bits is the difficulty of making a 
>>>>>>>>> mechanical selector that is reliable at 100 wpm. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>     --- 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>     "Ya can argue all ya wanna, but it's dif'rent than it was." 
>>>>>>>>>     "No it ain't! No it ain't!  But ya gotta know the territory." 
>>>>>>>>>         Meredith Willson, The Music Man
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________________________ 
>>>>>>>>> GreenKeys mailing list 
>>>>>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys 
>>>>>>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm 
>>>>>>>>> Post: mailto: GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch 
>>>>>>>>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/ 
>>>>>>>>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html 
>>>>>>>>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net 
>>>>>>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html 
>>>>>>>>> Message delivered to kwlueck at swbell.net
>>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________________________ 
>>>>>>>>> GreenKeys mailing list 
>>>>>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys 
>>>>>>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm 
>>>>>>>>> Post: mailto: GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>>>>>>>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net 
>>>>>>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html 
>>>>>>>>> Message delivered to deramp5113 at yahoo.com
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> <non parity keyboard.png>
>>>>> ______________________________________________________________ 
>>>>> GreenKeys mailing list 
>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys 
>>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm 
>>>>> Post: mailto: GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net 
>>>>> 
>>>>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch 
>>>>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/ 
>>>>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html 
>>>>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html 
>>>>> 
>>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net 
>>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html 
>>>>> Message delivered to vk2bea at gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>> -- 
>>>>>    |\      _,,,---,,_             Michael Katzmann
>>>>>    /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_         NV3Z / VK2BEA / G4NYV
>>>>>   |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-' 
>>>>>  '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)             vk2bea at gmail.com
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>> ______________________________________________________________ 
>>>>> GreenKeys mailing list 
>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys 
>>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm 
>>>>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net 
>>>>> 
>>>>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch 
>>>>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/ 
>>>>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html 
>>>>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html 
>>>>> 
>>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net 
>>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html 
>>>>> Message delivered to teletypeparts at comcast.net
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> GreenKeys mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>> 
>>>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>> 
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to wa3frp at gmail.com
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From tony.podrasky at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 10:13:13 2021
From: tony.podrasky at gmail.com (tony.podrasky)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 07:13:13 -0800
Subject: [GreenKeys] RadioHaus America
Message-ID: <60254989.3070302@gmail.com>

GM OMs;

Is anyone familiar with this company?

py2qi at radiohausamerica.com

I found it in my SPAM box - but it looks legit!

I haven't been able to go on the air in years because
I can't put up an antenna.

UE,
K2EAA - TONY
NNNN
ZCZC

-- 
MicroSoft error messages written in Haiku:

               Out of memory.
         We wish to hold the whole sky,
              But we never will.

From kn4ucl at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 11:20:51 2021
From: kn4ucl at gmail.com (Andy KN4UCL)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 11:20:51 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] UPDATE- shockingly basic question - Teletype Model
	33 ASR
In-Reply-To: <A7883DF6-15C1-41A5-957D-14F868E73007@gmail.com>
References: <A817D6B2-1B6F-4CD6-B8D8-B388D0A15AB7@gmail.com>
	<A7883DF6-15C1-41A5-957D-14F868E73007@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+H6KCn-L0HvECdb_AG9sbucR+zi-LQiH3zKk9WNg=avSpxkeg@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Do you have access to an ASCII code chart?  If not, I can send you a
> photo.
>

*Yes I do ... I always wondered what it was for haha ?*

Try pressing a single character on the keyboard repeatedly and not when the
> character prints incorrectly.  If there is AC ripple on the DC supply to
> the selector magnets, you will see random characters but the random
> characters are caused by the lack of a pure DC supply.  The AC ripple
> imposed on the DC current will cause random bits to be added to the
> original character as processed by the selector magnets.
>

*Well that makes sense. Looking at my ring binder (Tech bulletin 310B Vol2)
I have a power supply circuit diagram, but I am not sure where I would
physically plug in my highly underused budget Hantek scope...*

For example, the letter A is created by a bit in the 1 position and another
> bit in the 7 position.  Say you type A and you get C occasionally... that
> is because the selector magnets saw bits in positions 1, 2 and 7.  The
> extra bit, in the second position, was added by the AC ripple on the DC
> going through the magnets.
>
> Crystal clear or clear as mud?
>

*Yep I think I get the general idea and I am excited to diagnose but I warn
you I am out of my league here but very enthusiastic! (famous last words
?)*


On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 5:53 PM Russ Miller <wa3frp at gmail.com> wrote:

> Andy,
>
> Not difficult to find out!  Do you have access to an ASCII code chart?  If
> not, I can send you a photo.
>
> Try pressing a single character on the keyboard repeatedly and not when
> the character prints incorrectly.  If there is AC ripple on the DC supply
> to the selector magnets, you will see random characters but the random
> characters are caused by the lack of a pure DC supply.  The AC ripple
> imposed on the DC current will cause random bits to be added to the
> original character as processed by the selector magnets.
>
> For example, the letter A is created by a bit in the 1 position and
> another bit in the 7 position.  Say you type A and you get C
> occasionally... that is because the selector magnets saw bits in positions
> 1, 2 and 7.  The extra bit, in the second position, was added by the AC
> ripple on the DC going through the magnets.
>
> Crystal clear or clear as mud?
>
> Russ
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Feb 10, 2021, at 5:37 PM, Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ?
> Thanks Russ... although I am not going to lie, I have no idea if I am
> gaining or losing ?
>
> On Feb 10, 2021, at 4:47 PM, Russ Miller <wa3frp at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ?Andy,
>
> If you are gaining data bits, put a voltmeter on the DC supply to the
> magnets to see how much AC is present.  The 1500 mf capacitor is a common
> failure point in these older machines.
>
> Russ WA3FRP
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Feb 10, 2021, at 4:14 PM, Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ?
> Hey Wayne - thx for the info!
>
> Apologies I was not so precise in my description: When I apply power (in
> the OFF position) the buzzing starts. It's quite loud and at the rear of
> the machine.
>
> When I go into LOCAL or LINE, I get the garbled characters.
>
> Check out my tiny video     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri42KBN6kPM
>
> cheers!
> Andy
>
> On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 2:40 PM WAYNE <teletypeparts at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Andy,
>>
>> The trouble is the smaller electrolytic capacitor in the front of the
>> UCC-6.  Just in front of the large green multi-tap resistor.   250 MFD at
>> 75VDC.  Very common trouble.
>>
>> I have a couple used ones but you might want to order a new one from
>> Mouser.  I think I would get 2 so you would have another for the second
>> 33.
>>
>> Also the 1500 MF at 30VDC electrolytic that lays behind the SMD card will
>> cause a buzzing when you push the armature open with power plugged in and
>> 33 in OFF position.
>>
>> But loud buzzing when power plugged in is definitely the smaller cap.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Wayne
>>
>>
>>
>> On 02/09/2021 8:47 PM Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I removed the SMD card and took a photo (see attached) and all looks
>> visually OK.  Before swapping with the other one I popped it back in just
>> to make sure things were as before... but yikes!  Quite a buzzing sound in
>> Line or Local.  Line was no longer working and Local would not type very
>> faithfully. Buzzing did not stop so I quickly powered off, and when I did
>> there was a gentle mechanical  'pop' as the power released. I removed and
>> repositioned the card ... but same symptoms.
>>
>> Thought I'd better power off before something starts burning!
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 7:21 PM Michael Katzmann < vk2bea at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Try swapping the selector magnet driver card between the two units. (
>> vertical card on the right hand edge). If you are having problems in local
>> then it is not the RS232-current loop circuit but it might be the magnet
>> driver.
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 4:53 PM Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> So RIGHT NOW the machine is running great, just like in the video from
>> 1:42s  onwards.  It also prints perfectly in Local mode as well right now,
>> no matter how fast I try to type.
>>
>> However - it will intermittently go back to garbage output, as is shown
>> prior to 1:42s in the video.
>>
>> When I was testing in Local last night it was OK typing slowly, but
>> typing a little fast caused garbage output.
>>
>> So I think the terminal is intermittently behaving badly, in LIne and
>> Local.
>>
>> But.. of course... right now it is behaving itself!
>>
>> cheers
>> Andy
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 2:21 PM Michael Katzmann < vk2bea at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I don't see this as a parity issue. I would expect the ASR33 typing unit
>> to ignore parity on receive. Although, I think the tape punch will punch
>> the eighth bit (or parity) if received.
>> Likewise the tape reader will read and send all eight bits.
>>
>> Does the ASR read a tape and print consistently in local ?
>> I'd be suspicious of the RS232 converter. If you have an oscilloscope and
>> can look at the RS232 input compared with the current loop output it may
>> prove or dispel this hypothesis.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 1:22 PM Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Well I was hoping that it was either my serial loop adapter acting up, or
>> a cabling-from-serial-converter-to-terminal-server problem.  I've replaced
>> everything (including the terminal server) but sadly no obvious fix.
>>
>>    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-w-HCXI25E
>>
>> I've got two similar 33s (both no parity keyboards) and I've had them
>> both running at the same time connected to my terminal server for a while
>> now.  Recently I get very garbled data on one of them. It doesn't seem to
>> be related to the connected equipment or cabling as I've replaced
>> everything.
>>
>> Then... very weirdly it starts working again, as you can see  at 1:42s on
>> the video.
>>
>> Apart from fiddling about with the rangefinder, any other thoughts about
>> (simple ?) tests or adjustments I can make to diagnose this?
>>
>> thanks folks.
>> Andy
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 3:33 PM Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> OK well this is all very embarrassing. I have two almost identical 33s
>> (both non-parity) .... the other one works great connected to my Terminal
>> Server so thought I'd better  swap the RS232 Adapters, port and cable.. and
>> hey presto - my "not working due to parity errors" Teletype started running
>> fine!
>>
>> I then swapped back to the original RS232 adapter, cables and port...
>> expecting things to NOT work... but of course, everything ran fine (sigh.)
>>
>> I've tried jiggling the cables (I was hopeful maybe a weird cable problem
>> could be the issue) but I am struggling to see how a wiring problem would
>> look like a legit parity problem.
>>
>> Anyway! All good for now.. but I am curious what would cause these
>> parity-like symptoms. I am going to replace the cables anyway, and probably
>> grab another RS232 converter just in case.
>>
>> cheers!
>> Andy
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 11:05 PM Mike Douglas < deramp5113 at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Since you are concerned about the parity of your keyboard while testing
>> the TTY printing function, I assume your terminal server is in a mode where
>> it echos characters that you type on the TTY keyboard back out to the TTY
>> printer and you are testing your printer by typing on the TTY keyboard?
>>
>> If this is what you?re doing and you have a non-parity keyboard, then set
>> the serial port to 7 data bits plus mark parity (non parity keyboards set
>> the 8th bit to one). This should ensure the server accepts the typed
>> characters. If you type one character at a time with a short pause between
>> each character, then each character should echo properly to the TTY
>> printer. The pause between each character will be more than the two stop
>> bits the printer requires (and the printer ignores the 8th bit).
>>
>> If, however, you have a telnet session open and are sending data from a
>> remote device to the TTY printer and are not using the TTY keyboard to
>> generate test data, then set the serial port to 8 data bits plus mark
>> parity. This will appear as 8 data bits and 2 stop bits to the printer (as
>> it requires) and the printer can then keep up with a steady stream of data.
>>
>> If you are getting some garbage characters with either of these methods
>> but everything prints correctly in local mode, you made need to adjust the
>> rangefinder a bit.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 9:22 PM, Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> My Teletype has a Deramp converter which goes direct into an Equinox
>> ELS-16 terminal server.  When I start I get a session with the terminal
>> server and can interact directly with the server ... or telnet onwards
>> elsewhere.
>>
>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 10:00 PM, Mike Douglas < deramp5113 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> I guess I?m confused as to your test setup then. What is sending data to
>> your Teletype? Is it coming from an external source other than the
>> Teletype, or are you testing by somehow looping keyboard input from your
>> TTY back out to the TTY printer?
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 8:36 PM, Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I think I am still missing a trick or two here...I tried every
>> combination of 8 and 7 even/odd/none/mark/space and I get no printing at
>> all with 8 bit, but moderately bad spelling errors with 7.  See attachment
>> below... presumably this means I have the non-parity keyboard?
>>
>> thanks in advance for your thoughts!
>> Andy
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 8:18 PM Mike Douglas < deramp5113 at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> If you select 8 bit with mark parity on your terminal server, you?ll
>> probably get the 8N2 timing the Teletype requires (the mark parity bit
>> serves as the first stop bit).
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> On Jan 31, 2021, at 7:11 PM, Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks guys for the responses - a lot of great info for me to digest!
>>
>> My terminal server (Equinox ELS-16) allows me to define character size as
>> 7 or 8 bits, and to set parity as NONE, ODD, EVEN, MARK or SPACE.
>>
>> I don't seem to have the ability to specifically state the number of stop
>> bits, however.
>>
>>
>> Anyway.. I'm going to crack my Teletype open and confirm exactly what's
>> going on.
>> cheers!
>> Andy
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 5:43 PM Keith Lueck < kwlueck at swbell.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Jim & Wayne are spot-on, of course.  I learned the hard way that you best
>> include the parity bit - even though the 33 doesn't give a whit about
>> parity...
>> My machine was occasionally producing errors when I was feeding it 7 N
>> 2.  Wayne Durkee set me straight, and, viola, when I sent it 7 M 2,
>> everything was 100% ducky.
>>
>> On Sunday, January 31, 2021, 03:32:30 PM CST, Jim Haynes <
>> jhhaynes at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> All the 33s and 35s generate 11 unit code.  1 start bit, 7 data bits, one
>> bit which may be even parity or may be marking, and two stop bits.
>> That's
>> where 110 baud comes from. 100 wpm = 10 chars/sec and each char contains
>> 11 bits.  The reason for two stop bits is the difficulty of making a
>> mechanical selector that is reliable at 100 wpm.
>>
>>     ---
>>
>>     "Ya can argue all ya wanna, but it's dif'rent than it was."
>>     "No it ain't! No it ain't!  But ya gotta know the territory."
>>         Meredith Willson, The Music Man
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> GreenKeys mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto: GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>
>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to kwlueck at swbell.net
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> GreenKeys mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto: GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>
>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>
>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>
>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>
>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to deramp5113 at yahoo.com
>>
>> <non parity keyboard.png>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> GreenKeys mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto: GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>
>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to vk2bea at gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>    |\      _,,,---,,_             Michael Katzmann
>>    /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_         NV3Z / VK2BEA / G4NYV
>>   |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'
>>  '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)             vk2bea at gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> GreenKeys mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>
>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to teletypeparts at comcast.net
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>
> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>
> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>
> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to wa3frp at gmail.com
>
>
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From wa3frp at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 11:47:38 2021
From: wa3frp at gmail.com (Russ Miller)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 11:47:38 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] UPDATE- shockingly basic question - Teletype Model
	33 ASR
In-Reply-To: <CA+H6KCn-L0HvECdb_AG9sbucR+zi-LQiH3zKk9WNg=avSpxkeg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <A817D6B2-1B6F-4CD6-B8D8-B388D0A15AB7@gmail.com>
	<A7883DF6-15C1-41A5-957D-14F868E73007@gmail.com>
	<CA+H6KCn-L0HvECdb_AG9sbucR+zi-LQiH3zKk9WNg=avSpxkeg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMVk04BMEYGE3CUqejSZzMu7zmnEbVXp9V7=F+dmOM3sWovQEg@mail.gmail.com>

Very cool! Digging into the details is always fun.

On Thu, Feb 11, 2021 at 11:21 AM Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:

> Do you have access to an ASCII code chart?  If not, I can send you a
>> photo.
>>
>
> *Yes I do ... I always wondered what it was for haha ?*
>
> Try pressing a single character on the keyboard repeatedly and not when
>> the character prints incorrectly.  If there is AC ripple on the DC supply
>> to the selector magnets, you will see random characters but the random
>> characters are caused by the lack of a pure DC supply.  The AC ripple
>> imposed on the DC current will cause random bits to be added to the
>> original character as processed by the selector magnets.
>>
>
> *Well that makes sense. Looking at my ring binder (Tech bulletin 310B
> Vol2) I have a power supply circuit diagram, but I am not sure where I
> would physically plug in my highly underused budget Hantek scope...*
>
> For example, the letter A is created by a bit in the 1 position and
>> another bit in the 7 position.  Say you type A and you get C
>> occasionally... that is because the selector magnets saw bits in positions
>> 1, 2 and 7.  The extra bit, in the second position, was added by the AC
>> ripple on the DC going through the magnets.
>>
>> Crystal clear or clear as mud?
>>
>
> *Yep I think I get the general idea and I am excited to diagnose but I
> warn you I am out of my league here but very enthusiastic! (famous last
> words ?)*
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 5:53 PM Russ Miller <wa3frp at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Andy,
>>
>> Not difficult to find out!  Do you have access to an ASCII code chart?
>> If not, I can send you a photo.
>>
>> Try pressing a single character on the keyboard repeatedly and not when
>> the character prints incorrectly.  If there is AC ripple on the DC supply
>> to the selector magnets, you will see random characters but the random
>> characters are caused by the lack of a pure DC supply.  The AC ripple
>> imposed on the DC current will cause random bits to be added to the
>> original character as processed by the selector magnets.
>>
>> For example, the letter A is created by a bit in the 1 position and
>> another bit in the 7 position.  Say you type A and you get C
>> occasionally... that is because the selector magnets saw bits in positions
>> 1, 2 and 7.  The extra bit, in the second position, was added by the AC
>> ripple on the DC going through the magnets.
>>
>> Crystal clear or clear as mud?
>>
>> Russ
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Feb 10, 2021, at 5:37 PM, Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>> Thanks Russ... although I am not going to lie, I have no idea if I am
>> gaining or losing ?
>>
>> On Feb 10, 2021, at 4:47 PM, Russ Miller <wa3frp at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> ?Andy,
>>
>> If you are gaining data bits, put a voltmeter on the DC supply to the
>> magnets to see how much AC is present.  The 1500 mf capacitor is a common
>> failure point in these older machines.
>>
>> Russ WA3FRP
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Feb 10, 2021, at 4:14 PM, Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>> Hey Wayne - thx for the info!
>>
>> Apologies I was not so precise in my description: When I apply power (in
>> the OFF position) the buzzing starts. It's quite loud and at the rear of
>> the machine.
>>
>> When I go into LOCAL or LINE, I get the garbled characters.
>>
>> Check out my tiny video     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri42KBN6kPM
>>
>> cheers!
>> Andy
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 2:40 PM WAYNE <teletypeparts at comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Andy,
>>>
>>> The trouble is the smaller electrolytic capacitor in the front of the
>>> UCC-6.  Just in front of the large green multi-tap resistor.   250 MFD at
>>> 75VDC.  Very common trouble.
>>>
>>> I have a couple used ones but you might want to order a new one from
>>> Mouser.  I think I would get 2 so you would have another for the second
>>> 33.
>>>
>>> Also the 1500 MF at 30VDC electrolytic that lays behind the SMD card
>>> will cause a buzzing when you push the armature open with power plugged in
>>> and 33 in OFF position.
>>>
>>> But loud buzzing when power plugged in is definitely the smaller cap.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>>
>>> Wayne
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 02/09/2021 8:47 PM Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I removed the SMD card and took a photo (see attached) and all looks
>>> visually OK.  Before swapping with the other one I popped it back in just
>>> to make sure things were as before... but yikes!  Quite a buzzing sound in
>>> Line or Local.  Line was no longer working and Local would not type very
>>> faithfully. Buzzing did not stop so I quickly powered off, and when I did
>>> there was a gentle mechanical  'pop' as the power released. I removed and
>>> repositioned the card ... but same symptoms.
>>>
>>> Thought I'd better power off before something starts burning!
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 7:21 PM Michael Katzmann < vk2bea at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Try swapping the selector magnet driver card between the two units. (
>>> vertical card on the right hand edge). If you are having problems in local
>>> then it is not the RS232-current loop circuit but it might be the magnet
>>> driver.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 4:53 PM Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> So RIGHT NOW the machine is running great, just like in the video from
>>> 1:42s  onwards.  It also prints perfectly in Local mode as well right now,
>>> no matter how fast I try to type.
>>>
>>> However - it will intermittently go back to garbage output, as is shown
>>> prior to 1:42s in the video.
>>>
>>> When I was testing in Local last night it was OK typing slowly, but
>>> typing a little fast caused garbage output.
>>>
>>> So I think the terminal is intermittently behaving badly, in LIne and
>>> Local.
>>>
>>> But.. of course... right now it is behaving itself!
>>>
>>> cheers
>>> Andy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 2:21 PM Michael Katzmann < vk2bea at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I don't see this as a parity issue. I would expect the ASR33 typing unit
>>> to ignore parity on receive. Although, I think the tape punch will punch
>>> the eighth bit (or parity) if received.
>>> Likewise the tape reader will read and send all eight bits.
>>>
>>> Does the ASR read a tape and print consistently in local ?
>>> I'd be suspicious of the RS232 converter. If you have an
>>> oscilloscope and can look at the RS232 input compared with the current loop
>>> output it may prove or dispel this hypothesis.
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 1:22 PM Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Well I was hoping that it was either my serial loop adapter acting up,
>>> or a cabling-from-serial-converter-to-terminal-server problem.  I've
>>> replaced everything (including the terminal server) but sadly no obvious
>>> fix.
>>>
>>>    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-w-HCXI25E
>>>
>>> I've got two similar 33s (both no parity keyboards) and I've had them
>>> both running at the same time connected to my terminal server for a while
>>> now.  Recently I get very garbled data on one of them. It doesn't seem to
>>> be related to the connected equipment or cabling as I've replaced
>>> everything.
>>>
>>> Then... very weirdly it starts working again, as you can see  at 1:42s
>>> on the video.
>>>
>>> Apart from fiddling about with the rangefinder, any other thoughts about
>>> (simple ?) tests or adjustments I can make to diagnose this?
>>>
>>> thanks folks.
>>> Andy
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 3:33 PM Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> OK well this is all very embarrassing. I have two almost identical 33s
>>> (both non-parity) .... the other one works great connected to my Terminal
>>> Server so thought I'd better  swap the RS232 Adapters, port and cable.. and
>>> hey presto - my "not working due to parity errors" Teletype started running
>>> fine!
>>>
>>> I then swapped back to the original RS232 adapter, cables and port...
>>> expecting things to NOT work... but of course, everything ran fine (sigh.)
>>>
>>> I've tried jiggling the cables (I was hopeful maybe a weird cable
>>> problem could be the issue) but I am struggling to see how a wiring problem
>>> would look like a legit parity problem.
>>>
>>> Anyway! All good for now.. but I am curious what would cause these
>>> parity-like symptoms. I am going to replace the cables anyway, and probably
>>> grab another RS232 converter just in case.
>>>
>>> cheers!
>>> Andy
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 11:05 PM Mike Douglas < deramp5113 at yahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Since you are concerned about the parity of your keyboard while testing
>>> the TTY printing function, I assume your terminal server is in a mode where
>>> it echos characters that you type on the TTY keyboard back out to the TTY
>>> printer and you are testing your printer by typing on the TTY keyboard?
>>>
>>> If this is what you?re doing and you have a non-parity keyboard, then
>>> set the serial port to 7 data bits plus mark parity (non parity keyboards
>>> set the 8th bit to one). This should ensure the server accepts the typed
>>> characters. If you type one character at a time with a short pause between
>>> each character, then each character should echo properly to the TTY
>>> printer. The pause between each character will be more than the two stop
>>> bits the printer requires (and the printer ignores the 8th bit).
>>>
>>> If, however, you have a telnet session open and are sending data from a
>>> remote device to the TTY printer and are not using the TTY keyboard to
>>> generate test data, then set the serial port to 8 data bits plus mark
>>> parity. This will appear as 8 data bits and 2 stop bits to the printer (as
>>> it requires) and the printer can then keep up with a steady stream of data.
>>>
>>> If you are getting some garbage characters with either of these methods
>>> but everything prints correctly in local mode, you made need to adjust the
>>> rangefinder a bit.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 9:22 PM, Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> My Teletype has a Deramp converter which goes direct into an Equinox
>>> ELS-16 terminal server.  When I start I get a session with the terminal
>>> server and can interact directly with the server ... or telnet onwards
>>> elsewhere.
>>>
>>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 10:00 PM, Mike Douglas < deramp5113 at yahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I guess I?m confused as to your test setup then. What is sending data to
>>> your Teletype? Is it coming from an external source other than the
>>> Teletype, or are you testing by somehow looping keyboard input from your
>>> TTY back out to the TTY printer?
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 8:36 PM, Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I think I am still missing a trick or two here...I tried every
>>> combination of 8 and 7 even/odd/none/mark/space and I get no printing at
>>> all with 8 bit, but moderately bad spelling errors with 7.  See attachment
>>> below... presumably this means I have the non-parity keyboard?
>>>
>>> thanks in advance for your thoughts!
>>> Andy
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 8:18 PM Mike Douglas < deramp5113 at yahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> If you select 8 bit with mark parity on your terminal server, you?ll
>>> probably get the 8N2 timing the Teletype requires (the mark parity bit
>>> serves as the first stop bit).
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> On Jan 31, 2021, at 7:11 PM, Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks guys for the responses - a lot of great info for me to digest!
>>>
>>> My terminal server (Equinox ELS-16) allows me to define character size
>>> as 7 or 8 bits, and to set parity as NONE, ODD, EVEN, MARK or SPACE.
>>>
>>> I don't seem to have the ability to specifically state the number of
>>> stop bits, however.
>>>
>>>
>>> Anyway.. I'm going to crack my Teletype open and confirm exactly what's
>>> going on.
>>> cheers!
>>> Andy
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 5:43 PM Keith Lueck < kwlueck at swbell.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Jim & Wayne are spot-on, of course.  I learned the hard way that you
>>> best include the parity bit - even though the 33 doesn't give a whit about
>>> parity...
>>> My machine was occasionally producing errors when I was feeding it 7 N
>>> 2.  Wayne Durkee set me straight, and, viola, when I sent it 7 M 2,
>>> everything was 100% ducky.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, January 31, 2021, 03:32:30 PM CST, Jim Haynes <
>>> jhhaynes at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> All the 33s and 35s generate 11 unit code.  1 start bit, 7 data bits,
>>> one
>>> bit which may be even parity or may be marking, and two stop bits.
>>> That's
>>> where 110 baud comes from. 100 wpm = 10 chars/sec and each char contains
>>> 11 bits.  The reason for two stop bits is the difficulty of making a
>>> mechanical selector that is reliable at 100 wpm.
>>>
>>>     ---
>>>
>>>     "Ya can argue all ya wanna, but it's dif'rent than it was."
>>>     "No it ain't! No it ain't!  But ya gotta know the territory."
>>>         Meredith Willson, The Music Man
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> GreenKeys mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto: GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>>
>>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to kwlueck at swbell.net
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> GreenKeys mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto: GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>>
>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>
>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>
>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>
>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>>
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to deramp5113 at yahoo.com
>>>
>>> <non parity keyboard.png>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> GreenKeys mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto: GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>>
>>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to vk2bea at gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>    |\      _,,,---,,_             Michael Katzmann
>>>    /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_         NV3Z / VK2BEA / G4NYV
>>>   |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'
>>>  '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)             vk2bea at gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> GreenKeys mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>>
>>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to teletypeparts at comcast.net
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>> GreenKeys mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>
>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>
>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>
>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>
>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to wa3frp at gmail.com
>>
>>
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From jim.w2jc at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 11:54:18 2021
From: jim.w2jc at gmail.com (Jim Cooper)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 11:54:18 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] UPDATE- shockingly basic question - Teletype Model
	33 ASR
In-Reply-To: <CA+H6KCn-L0HvECdb_AG9sbucR+zi-LQiH3zKk9WNg=avSpxkeg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <A817D6B2-1B6F-4CD6-B8D8-B388D0A15AB7@gmail.com>,
	<A7883DF6-15C1-41A5-957D-14F868E73007@gmail.com>,
	<CA+H6KCn-L0HvECdb_AG9sbucR+zi-LQiH3zKk9WNg=avSpxkeg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6025613A.29960.1EBE9ECF@jim.w2jc.gmail.com>

On 11 Feb 2021 at 11:20, Andy KN4UCL wrote:

> *Well that makes sense. Looking at
> my ring binder (Tech bulletin 310B
> Vol2) I have a power supply circuit
> diagram, but I am not sure where I
> would physically plug in my highly
> underused budget Hantek scope...* 

If your scope can handle the voltage, 
one simple place to put the scope is 
across the current limiting resistor 
in the loop (usually about a 2k resistor). 

You will then see the square pattern of 
the character code. 

w2jc 



From pbirkel at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 12:14:58 2021
From: pbirkel at gmail.com (Paul Birkel)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 12:14:58 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Teletypewriter Reperforator TT-109/FG -- Seeking TM
	11-2228, TM 11-5815-257-20P, and TM 11-5815-257-35P
Message-ID: <064001d70099$6cde8e40$469baac0$@gmail.com>

Several years later . the saga continues.  While I'm continuing my education
on an M15 I decided to take a closer look at my TT-109/FG now that I'm a bit
more knowledgeable on such topics :->.

 

I finally found some information in
https://usermanual.wiki/Manual/KleinschmidtCat70.1239740731.pdf  pages 24-26
of 61.  It has a serial governed motor, standard print symbols, two gear
sets (60 & 100 WPM), supports Neutral @ 20 and 60 mA, and Polar 30 mA.  The
mechanisms in mine look to be in pretty good shape, although the rest
certainly needs a cleaning, and of course general lubrication is in order.

 

There's also a description found in:
https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/408320.pdf pages 36-38.

 

Technical manual is TM 11-2228 (TO 31W4-2FG-181) - no name specified
anywhere.

 

No luck finding this document.  The two TMs listed below remain
undiscovered, too.  So . here I am with a "data call".  Thank you.

 

From: Paul Birkel [mailto:pbirkel at gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2017 3:09 AM
To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Speaking of Military Teletypes (Teletypewriter Reperforator
TT-109/FG)

 

This one is actually a Kleinschmidt, but I've had no luck finding any online
documentation.  The closest that I've been able to find are references to
parts lists:

 

TM 11-5815-257-20P  Organizational Maintenance Repair Parts and Special Tool
Lists: Reperforator, Teletypewriters TT-107/FG, TT-107B/FG, TT-109/FG,
TT-345/FG, TT-345A/FG, TT-346/FG, and TT-364A/FG

 

TM 11-5815-257-35P  Field and Depot Maintenance Repair Parts and Special
Tool Lists: Reperforator, Teletypewriters TT-107/FG, TT-107B/FG, TT-109/FG,
TT-345/FG, TT-345A/FG, TT-346/FG, and TT-364A/FG

 

Judging by Duncan's comments regarding the TT-4A I suspect that neither of
these two documents (if found) would be much help.

 

Is anyone familiar with this reperforator?  Know of any documentation for
it?

 

Also, the repeated use of "FG" in the designations means what?  "Field
Grade" :->?  Would there be a (e.g.) different housing for "office grade"?

 

Thanks!

 

-----

paul

 

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From navy.radio at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 12:29:43 2021
From: navy.radio at gmail.com (Nick England)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 12:29:43 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] UPDATE- shockingly basic question - Teletype Model
	33 ASR
In-Reply-To: <6025613A.29960.1EBE9ECF@jim.w2jc.gmail.com>
References: <A817D6B2-1B6F-4CD6-B8D8-B388D0A15AB7@gmail.com>
	<A7883DF6-15C1-41A5-957D-14F868E73007@gmail.com>
	<CA+H6KCn-L0HvECdb_AG9sbucR+zi-LQiH3zKk9WNg=avSpxkeg@mail.gmail.com>
	<6025613A.29960.1EBE9ECF@jim.w2jc.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB55hNd=Veayr0JDS3PpQekkVt-Ey-Lh_KF5+Ok7G6uGv_h6OQ@mail.gmail.com>

*Across* the resistor???? Do you mean scope probe to one side and ground
clip to the other?

Careful! If part of the loop is grounded, and you hook up the scope ground
to the wrong spot, you can short out the power supply. Sparks sparking!
Fuses fusing! Transistors blowing quickly to protect the fuse!

I am a M33 ignoramous, but isn?t there a selector magnet driver? That?s
where Russ was talking about ripple, not a signal loop.

I could be reading this all wrong.
Nick

On Thu, Feb 11, 2021 at 11:55 AM Jim Cooper <jim.w2jc at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 11 Feb 2021 at 11:20, Andy KN4UCL wrote:
>
> > *Well that makes sense. Looking at
> > my ring binder (Tech bulletin 310B
> > Vol2) I have a power supply circuit
> > diagram, but I am not sure where I
> > would physically plug in my highly
> > underused budget Hantek scope...*
>
> If your scope can handle the voltage,
> one simple place to put the scope is
> across the current limiting resistor
> in the loop (usually about a 2k resistor).
>
> You will then see the square pattern of
> the character code.
>
> w2jc
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to navy.radio at gmail.com
>
-- 
Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com
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From duncanancy at earthlink.net  Thu Feb 11 13:06:13 2021
From: duncanancy at earthlink.net (Duncan Brown)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 13:06:13 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Teletypewriter Reperforator TT-109/FG -- Seeking TM
 11-2228, TM 11-5815-257-20P, and TM 11-5815-257-35P
In-Reply-To: <064001d70099$6cde8e40$469baac0$@gmail.com>
References: <064001d70099$6cde8e40$469baac0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8c88d074-713e-f9fd-4798-289eb96119e0@earthlink.net>

Paul,

Yes, TM 11-2228 is hard to find.

However, the TT-109 series is basically a "RO" (receive only) TT-76. The 
TT-76 manual is TM 11-5815-238-xx. They are available at 
http://rattrig.com/manuals/tm's.htm
The xx is : 10 = operator manual; 20 = low level maintenance manual; 35 
= high level maintenance. The "P" suffix denotes a parts manual.

have fun,

Duncan
K2OEQ

On 11-Feb-21 12:14, Paul Birkel wrote:
>
> Several years later ? the saga continues.? While I?m continuing my 
> education on an M15 I decided to take a closer look at my TT-109/FG 
> now that I?m a bit more knowledgeable on such topics :->.
>
> I finally found some information in 
> https://usermanual.wiki/Manual/KleinschmidtCat70.1239740731.pdf 
> <https://usermanual.wiki/Manual/KleinschmidtCat70.1239740731.pdf> 
> ?pages 24-26 of 61.? It has a serial governed motor, standard print 
> symbols, two gear sets (60 & 100 WPM), supports Neutral @ 20 and 60 
> mA, and Polar 30 mA.? The mechanisms in mine look to be in pretty good 
> shape, although the rest certainly needs a cleaning, and of course 
> general lubrication is in order.
>
> There?s also a description found in: 
> https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/408320.pdf 
> <https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/408320.pdf> pages 36-38.
>
> Technical manual is *TM 11-2228 (TO 31W4-2FG-181)* ? no name specified 
> anywhere.
>
> No luck finding this document.? The two TMs listed below remain 
> undiscovered, too.? So ? here I am with a ?data call?. Thank you.
>
> *From:*Paul Birkel [mailto:pbirkel at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, November 27, 2017 3:09 AM
> *To:* greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
> *Subject:* Speaking of Military Teletypes (Teletypewriter Reperforator 
> TT-109/FG)
>
> This one is actually a Kleinschmidt, but I?ve had no luck finding any 
> online documentation.? The closest that I?ve been able to find are 
> references to parts lists:
>
> *TM 11-5815-257-20P*Organizational Maintenance Repair Parts and 
> Special Tool Lists: Reperforator, Teletypewriters TT-107/FG, 
> TT-107B/FG, TT-109/FG, TT-345/FG, TT-345A/FG, TT-346/FG, and TT-364A/FG
>
> *TM 11-5815-257-35P*Field and Depot Maintenance Repair Parts and 
> Special Tool Lists: Reperforator, Teletypewriters TT-107/FG, 
> TT-107B/FG, TT-109/FG, TT-345/FG, TT-345A/FG, TT-346/FG, and TT-364A/FG
>
> Judging by Duncan?s comments regarding the TT-4A I suspect that 
> neither of these two documents (if found) would be much help.
>
> Is anyone familiar with this reperforator?? Know of any documentation 
> for it?
>
> Also, the repeated use of ?FG? in the designations means what? ?Field 
> Grade? :->?? Would there be a (e.g.) different housing for ?office grade??
>
> Thanks!
>
> -----
>
> paul
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to duncanancy at earthlink.net


From carcher at parkcity.net  Thu Feb 11 13:09:06 2021
From: carcher at parkcity.net (Clay Archer)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 11:09:06 -0700
Subject: [GreenKeys] UPDATE- shockingly basic question - Teletype Model
	33 ASR
In-Reply-To: <458215384.3919.1612986051356@connect.xfinity.com>
References: <B89CF151-3196-4D55-A45D-B426569310B6@gmail.com>	<C2BFE42A-19EA-46EF-AFF2-2474709B1C72@yahoo.com>	<CA+H6KC=jKmB2VN7GWMx0Yot7YunHpWNG=i5111yncACKaYHgPA@mail.gmail.com>	<CA+H6KCkDs4NKNSEHNbG=CBDfxBnXZ1tQdW4sJQ-x1ZjFaA7kBQ@mail.gmail.com>	<CAMyt5OQ1h4pRUbQPEhXdNt4bxfoPV0cKnH6s9RGfRvt4fVSFog@mail.gmail.com>	<CA+H6KCmYH+T1apcMb4GNr3--aQyEzDATESL=fz7jDmB3_KKy=Q@mail.gmail.com>	<CAMyt5OTU0bMtRikk-R4NrBTB4u7PKEXDT6ygDdRNC55_aoiMVg@mail.gmail.com>	<CA+H6KCmX6X2oHCyVo1yVLN-n65OK1xF8dCkeCMARH02F7osTmA@mail.gmail.com>
	<458215384.3919.1612986051356@connect.xfinity.com>
Message-ID: <00b901d700a0$fd9f93a0$f8debae0$@net>

You probably should clean the edge connector.   Oxide buildup and dirt can cause a bad connection.  I just use a pink rubber eraser on them until they shine.  You could also use alcohol wipes.    These are coated with solder, so you could also re-flow some silver solder on them and remove excess to make a nice flat pad,  and clean off the flux.  Just don?t get them too hot so they separate from the board.   Probably best to just use the rubber eraser  or wipes to clean them.   Keep your fingers off the pads after you clean them too.

Clay

 

 

From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of WAYNE
Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2021 12:41 PM
To: Andy KN4UCL; Michael Katzmann
Cc: Greenkeys
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] UPDATE- shockingly basic question - Teletype Model 33 ASR

 

The SMD card is in good condition. 

  

Wayne 

On 02/09/2021 8:47 PM Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote: 

  

  

I removed the SMD card and took a photo (see attached) and all looks visually OK.  Before swapping with the other one I popped it back in just to make sure things were as before... but yikes!  Quite a buzzing sound in Line or Local.  Line was no longer working and Local would not type very faithfully. Buzzing did not stop so I quickly powered off, and when I did there was a gentle mechanical  'pop' as the power released. I removed and repositioned the card ... but same symptoms.  

  

Thought I'd better power off before something starts burning! 

 

On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 7:21 PM Michael Katzmann < vk2bea at gmail.com> wrote: 

Try swapping the selector magnet driver card between the two units. ( vertical card on the right hand edge). If you are having problems in local then it is not the RS232-current loop circuit but it might be the magnet driver. 

 

On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 4:53 PM Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote: 

So RIGHT NOW the machine is running great, just like in the video from 1:42s  onwards.  It also prints perfectly in Local mode as well right now, no matter how fast I try to type. 

  

However - it will intermittently go back to garbage output, as is shown prior to 1:42s in the video. 

  

When I was testing in Local last night it was OK typing slowly, but typing a little fast caused garbage output. 

  

So I think the terminal is intermittently behaving badly, in LIne and Local. 

  

But.. of course... right now it is behaving itself! 

  

cheers 

Andy 

  

  

 

On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 2:21 PM Michael Katzmann < vk2bea at gmail.com> wrote: 

I don't see this as a parity issue. I would expect the ASR33 typing unit to ignore parity on receive. Although, I think the tape punch will punch the eighth bit (or parity) if received. 

Likewise the tape reader will read and send all eight bits. 

  

Does the ASR read a tape and print consistently in local ? 

I'd be suspicious of the RS232 converter. If you have an oscilloscope and can look at the RS232 input compared with the current loop output it may prove or dispel this hypothesis. 

  

Michael 

 

On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 1:22 PM Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote: 

Well I was hoping that it was either my serial loop adapter acting up, or a cabling-from-serial-converter-to-terminal-server problem.  I've replaced everything (including the terminal server) but sadly no obvious fix. 

  

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-w-HCXI25E 

  

I've got two similar 33s (both no parity keyboards) and I've had them both running at the same time connected to my terminal server for a while now.  Recently I get very garbled data on one of them. It doesn't seem to be related to the connected equipment or cabling as I've replaced everything. 

  

Then... very weirdly it starts working again, as you can see  at 1:42s on the video. 

  

Apart from fiddling about with the rangefinder, any other thoughts about (simple ?) tests or adjustments I can make to diagnose this? 

  

thanks folks. 

Andy 

  

On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 3:33 PM Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote: 

OK well this is all very embarrassing. I have two almost identical 33s (both non-parity) .... the other one works great connected to my Terminal Server so thought I'd better  swap the RS232 Adapters, port and cable.. and hey presto - my "not working due to parity errors" Teletype started running fine! 

  

I then swapped back to the original RS232 adapter, cables and port... expecting things to NOT work... but of course, everything ran fine (sigh.) 

  

I've tried jiggling the cables (I was hopeful maybe a weird cable problem could be the issue) but I am struggling to see how a wiring problem would look like a legit parity problem. 

  

Anyway! All good for now.. but I am curious what would cause these parity-like symptoms. I am going to replace the cables anyway, and probably grab another RS232 converter just in case. 

  

cheers! 

Andy 

 

On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 11:05 PM Mike Douglas < deramp5113 at yahoo.com> wrote: 

Since you are concerned about the parity of your keyboard while testing the TTY printing function, I assume your terminal server is in a mode where it echos characters that you type on the TTY keyboard back out to the TTY printer and you are testing your printer by typing on the TTY keyboard? 

  

If this is what you?re doing and you have a non-parity keyboard, then set the serial port to 7 data bits plus mark parity (non parity keyboards set the 8th bit to one). This should ensure the server accepts the typed characters. If you type one character at a time with a short pause between each character, then each character should echo properly to the TTY printer. The pause between each character will be more than the two stop bits the printer requires (and the printer ignores the 8th bit).  

  

If, however, you have a telnet session open and are sending data from a remote device to the TTY printer and are not using the TTY keyboard to generate test data, then set the serial port to 8 data bits plus mark parity. This will appear as 8 data bits and 2 stop bits to the printer (as it requires) and the printer can then keep up with a steady stream of data. 

  

If you are getting some garbage characters with either of these methods but everything prints correctly in local mode, you made need to adjust the rangefinder a bit. 

  

Mike 





On Feb 3, 2021, at 9:22 PM, Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote: 

My Teletype has a Deramp converter which goes direct into an Equinox ELS-16 terminal server.  When I start I get a session with the terminal server and can interact directly with the server ... or telnet onwards elsewhere. 





On Feb 3, 2021, at 10:00 PM, Mike Douglas < deramp5113 at yahoo.com> wrote: 

I guess I?m confused as to your test setup then. What is sending data to your Teletype? Is it coming from an external source other than the Teletype, or are you testing by somehow looping keyboard input from your TTY back out to the TTY printer? 

 

Mike 





On Feb 3, 2021, at 8:36 PM, Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote: 

I think I am still missing a trick or two here...I tried every combination of 8 and 7 even/odd/none/mark/space and I get no printing at all with 8 bit, but moderately bad spelling errors with 7.  See attachment below... presumably this means I have the non-parity keyboard? 

  

thanks in advance for your thoughts! 

Andy 

 

On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 8:18 PM Mike Douglas < deramp5113 at yahoo.com> wrote: 

If you select 8 bit with mark parity on your terminal server, you?ll probably get the 8N2 timing the Teletype requires (the mark parity bit serves as the first stop bit). 

 

Mike 





On Jan 31, 2021, at 7:11 PM, Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote: 

Thanks guys for the responses - a lot of great info for me to digest!  

  

My terminal server (Equinox ELS-16) allows me to define character size as 7 or 8 bits, and to set parity as NONE, ODD, EVEN, MARK or SPACE. 

  

I don't seem to have the ability to specifically state the number of stop bits, however. 

  

  

Anyway.. I'm going to crack my Teletype open and confirm exactly what's going on. 

cheers! 

Andy 

 

On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 5:43 PM Keith Lueck < kwlueck at swbell.net> wrote: 

  

Jim & Wayne are spot-on, of course.  I learned the hard way that you best include the parity bit - even though the 33 doesn't give a whit about parity...   

My machine was occasionally producing errors when I was feeding it 7 N 2.  Wayne Durkee set me straight, and, viola, when I sent it 7 M 2, everything was 100% ducky.   

  

On Sunday, January 31, 2021, 03:32:30 PM CST, Jim Haynes < jhhaynes at earthlink.net> wrote: 

  

  

All the 33s and 35s generate 11 unit code.  1 start bit, 7 data bits, one 
bit which may be even parity or may be marking, and two stop bits.  That's 
where 110 baud comes from. 100 wpm = 10 chars/sec and each char contains 
11 bits.  The reason for two stop bits is the difficulty of making a 
mechanical selector that is reliable at 100 wpm. 

    --- 

    "Ya can argue all ya wanna, but it's dif'rent than it was." 
    "No it ain't! No it ain't!  But ya gotta know the territory." 
        Meredith Willson, The Music Man 


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<non parity keyboard.png> 

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-- 

   |\      _,,,---,,_             Michael Katzmann
   /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_         NV3Z / VK2BEA / G4NYV
  |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-' 
 '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)             vk2bea at gmail.com 

  

  

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>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html 
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From douglas-w-jones at uiowa.edu  Thu Feb 11 14:31:30 2021
From: douglas-w-jones at uiowa.edu (Jones, Douglas W)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 19:31:30 +0000
Subject: [GreenKeys] [External] Re: UPDATE- shockingly basic question -
 Teletype Model	33 ASR
In-Reply-To: <CAB55hNd=Veayr0JDS3PpQekkVt-Ey-Lh_KF5+Ok7G6uGv_h6OQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <A817D6B2-1B6F-4CD6-B8D8-B388D0A15AB7@gmail.com>
	<A7883DF6-15C1-41A5-957D-14F868E73007@gmail.com>
	<CA+H6KCn-L0HvECdb_AG9sbucR+zi-LQiH3zKk9WNg=avSpxkeg@mail.gmail.com>
	<6025613A.29960.1EBE9ECF@jim.w2jc.gmail.com>,
	<CAB55hNd=Veayr0JDS3PpQekkVt-Ey-Lh_KF5+Ok7G6uGv_h6OQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BL0PR04MB4994917BB49D5B96AC2D502DA88C9@BL0PR04MB4994.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>

From:  Nick England [navy.radio at gmail.com] -- Thursday, February 11, 2021 11:29 AM

> *Across* the resistor???? Do you mean scope probe to one side and ground clip to the other?
> Careful! If part of the loop is grounded, and you hook up the scope ground to the wrong spot, you can short out the power supply. Sparks sparking! Fuses fusing! Transistors blowing quickly to protect the fuse!

My scope is a Tektronics 321, older than the Model 33, it turns out.  Great little scope, and when I need to use it in a context like this, I run it from an isolated 12V power supply so the whole scope floats relative to ground.  That way, I can avoid blowing anything up.  Of course, all the metal parts of the scope then float at an unknown and potentially unsafe level, so I put the scope on a wooden board and avoid touching the metal parts.

The one-hand rule is important when doing this kind of thing.  Keep one hand behind your back when working with exposed conductors at potentially harmful voltages.

A scope with differential input would be far better to use for this kind of thing.

         Doug Jones
         jones at cs.uiowa.edu

From vk2bea at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 14:50:04 2021
From: vk2bea at gmail.com (Michael Katzmann)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 14:50:04 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] [External] Re: UPDATE- shockingly basic question -
 Teletype Model 33 ASR
In-Reply-To: <BL0PR04MB4994917BB49D5B96AC2D502DA88C9@BL0PR04MB4994.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
References: <A817D6B2-1B6F-4CD6-B8D8-B388D0A15AB7@gmail.com>
	<A7883DF6-15C1-41A5-957D-14F868E73007@gmail.com>
	<CA+H6KCn-L0HvECdb_AG9sbucR+zi-LQiH3zKk9WNg=avSpxkeg@mail.gmail.com>
	<6025613A.29960.1EBE9ECF@jim.w2jc.gmail.com>
	<CAB55hNd=Veayr0JDS3PpQekkVt-Ey-Lh_KF5+Ok7G6uGv_h6OQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BL0PR04MB4994917BB49D5B96AC2D502DA88C9@BL0PR04MB4994.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAMyt5OTuizsNNpYm+znvzhydhgNHxUnpRdWHFUkuvm1yG5OANA@mail.gmail.com>

I use either the oscilloscope's differential capabilities. On Tek
analog scope I use channel 1 on one side of the resistor and channel 2
on the other side. Invert channel 2 and add. Then you see the
difference.voltage across the device. My newer Agilent digital scope
has a math function so I just display CH1-CH2.

On Thu, Feb 11, 2021 at 2:31 PM Jones, Douglas W
<douglas-w-jones at uiowa.edu> wrote:
>
> From:  Nick England [navy.radio at gmail.com] -- Thursday, February 11, 2021 11:29 AM
>
> > *Across* the resistor???? Do you mean scope probe to one side and ground clip to the other?
> > Careful! If part of the loop is grounded, and you hook up the scope ground to the wrong spot, you can short out the power supply. Sparks sparking! Fuses fusing! Transistors blowing quickly to protect the fuse!
>
> My scope is a Tektronics 321, older than the Model 33, it turns out.  Great little scope, and when I need to use it in a context like this, I run it from an isolated 12V power supply so the whole scope floats relative to ground.  That way, I can avoid blowing anything up.  Of course, all the metal parts of the scope then float at an unknown and potentially unsafe level, so I put the scope on a wooden board and avoid touching the metal parts.
>
> The one-hand rule is important when doing this kind of thing.  Keep one hand behind your back when working with exposed conductors at potentially harmful voltages.
>
> A scope with differential input would be far better to use for this kind of thing.
>
>          Doug Jones
>          jones at cs.uiowa.edu
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to vk2bea at gmail.com



-- 
   |\      _,,,---,,_             Michael Katzmann
   /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_         NV3Z / VK2BEA / G4NYV
  |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'
 '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)             vk2bea at gmail.com

From jim.w2jc at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 18:09:21 2021
From: jim.w2jc at gmail.com (Jim Cooper)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 18:09:21 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] UPDATE- shockingly basic question - Teletype Model
	33 ASR
In-Reply-To: <CAB55hNd=Veayr0JDS3PpQekkVt-Ey-Lh_KF5+Ok7G6uGv_h6OQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <A817D6B2-1B6F-4CD6-B8D8-B388D0A15AB7@gmail.com>,
	<6025613A.29960.1EBE9ECF@jim.w2jc.gmail.com>,
	<CAB55hNd=Veayr0JDS3PpQekkVt-Ey-Lh_KF5+Ok7G6uGv_h6OQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6025B921.16499.2015FC9E@jim.w2jc.gmail.com>

On 11 Feb 2021 at 12:29, Nick England wrote:

> *Across* the resistor???? Do you
> mean scope probe to one side and
> ground clip to the other? 
> 
> Careful! If part of the loop is
> grounded, and you hook up the scope
> ground to the wrong spot, you can
> short out the power supply. Sparks
> sparking! Fuses fusing! Transistors
> blowing quickly to protect the fuse! 

Well, yes ...  but never a good idea to 
stick an instrument that's not 'floating' 
into any circuit. 

> I am a M33 ignoramous, but isn?t
> there a selector magnet driver?
> That?s where Russ was talking about
> ripple, not a signal loop. 

Well, the complaint is bad characters 
being printed ...  scoping across the 
selector magnet should give the same 
waveform as scoping across the current 
limit resistor, except you might also see 
spikes from the inductance ...   and wouldn't 
your caveat about ground hold for clipping 
on the SM as well ? 

> I could be reading this all wrong.
> Nick

or maybe I am ...   

> 
> On Thu, Feb 11, 2021 at 11:55 AM Jim Cooper <jim.w2jc at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > On 11 Feb 2021 at 11:20, Andy KN4UCL wrote:
> >
> > > *Well that makes sense. Looking at
> > > my ring binder (Tech bulletin 310B
> > > Vol2) I have a power supply circuit
> > > diagram, but I am not sure where I
> > > would physically plug in my highly
> > > underused budget Hantek scope...*
> >
> > If your scope can handle the voltage,
> > one simple place to put the scope is
> > across the current limiting resistor
> > in the loop (usually about a 2k resistor).
> >
> > You will then see the square pattern of
> > the character code.
> >
> > w2jc
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > GreenKeys mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> >
> > >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> > https://teletype.net/gksearch
> > >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> > http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> > >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> > http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> > >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> > http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list:
> http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to navy.radio at gmail.com
> >
> -- 
> Nick England K4NYW
> www.navy-radio.com
> 



From hwhall at compuserve.com  Thu Feb 11 18:24:13 2021
From: hwhall at compuserve.com (hwhall at compuserve.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 23:24:13 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [GreenKeys] Fwd: UPDATE- shockingly basic question - Teletype
	Model	33 ASR
In-Reply-To: <134015714.685863.1613085794003@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <A817D6B2-1B6F-4CD6-B8D8-B388D0A15AB7@gmail.com>
	<6025613A.29960.1EBE9ECF@jim.w2jc.gmail.com>
	<CAB55hNd=Veayr0JDS3PpQekkVt-Ey-Lh_KF5+Ok7G6uGv_h6OQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<6025B921.16499.2015FC9E@jim.w2jc.gmail.com>
	<134015714.685863.1613085794003@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <992627093.686542.1613085853083@mail.yahoo.com>

Assuming that the loop is grounded at some point, why not look at the keying voltages vs ground?

WayneWB4OGM

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Cooper <jim.w2jc at gmail.com>
To: Nick England <navy.radio at gmail.com>; Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com>; Greenkeys <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Thu, Feb 11, 2021 4:09 pm
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] UPDATE- shockingly basic question - Teletype Model 33 ASR

On 11 Feb 2021 at 12:29, Nick England wrote:

> *Across* the resistor???? Do you
> mean scope probe to one side and
> ground clip to the other? 
> 
> Careful! If part of the loop is
> grounded, and you hook up the scope
> ground to the wrong spot, you can
> short out the power supply. Sparks
> sparking! Fuses fusing! Transistors
> blowing quickly to protect the fuse! 

Well, yes ...? but never a good idea to 
stick an instrument that's not 'floating' 
into any circuit. 

> I am a M33 ignoramous, but isn?t
> there a selector magnet driver?
> That?s where Russ was talking about
> ripple, not a signal loop. 

Well, the complaint is bad characters 
being printed ...? scoping across the 
selector magnet should give the same 
waveform as scoping across the current 
limit resistor, except you might also see 
spikes from the inductance ...? and wouldn't 
your caveat about ground hold for clipping 
on the SM as well ? 

> I could be reading this all wrong.
> Nick

or maybe I am ...? 

> 
> On Thu, Feb 11, 2021 at 11:55 AM Jim Cooper <jim.w2jc at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > On 11 Feb 2021 at 11:20, Andy KN4UCL wrote:
> >
> > > *Well that makes sense. Looking at
> > > my ring binder (Tech bulletin 310B
> > > Vol2) I have a power supply circuit
> > > diagram, but I am not sure where I
> > > would physically plug in my highly
> > > underused budget Hantek scope...*
> >
> > If your scope can handle the voltage,
> > one simple place to put the scope is
> > across the current limiting resistor
> > in the loop (usually about a 2k resistor).
> >
> > You will then see the square pattern of
> > the character code.
> >
> > w2jc
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > GreenKeys mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> >
> > >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> > https://teletype.net/gksearch
> > >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> > http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> > >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> > http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> > >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> > http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list:
> http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to navy.radio at gmail.com
> >
> -- 
> Nick England K4NYW
> www.navy-radio.com
> 


______________________________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net

>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to hwhall at compuserve.com
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From kn4ucl at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 20:31:32 2021
From: kn4ucl at gmail.com (Andy KN4UCL)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 20:31:32 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] UPDATE- shockingly basic question - Teletype Model
	33 ASR
In-Reply-To: <6025B921.16499.2015FC9E@jim.w2jc.gmail.com>
References: <A817D6B2-1B6F-4CD6-B8D8-B388D0A15AB7@gmail.com>
	<6025613A.29960.1EBE9ECF@jim.w2jc.gmail.com>
	<CAB55hNd=Veayr0JDS3PpQekkVt-Ey-Lh_KF5+Ok7G6uGv_h6OQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<6025B921.16499.2015FC9E@jim.w2jc.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+H6KCmgz87ST3nA9RUJVbw+VXZRT=REicgnZP=Cg-=Fx4iioQ@mail.gmail.com>

I have a cheap little Hantek DSO5102P which is grounded.  So assuming I
managed to correctly hook up the earth crocodile clip from my scope to the
teletype ground (presumably any part of the chassis) I should be ok to have
a little probe around, yeah?

On Thu, Feb 11, 2021 at 6:09 PM Jim Cooper <jim.w2jc at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 11 Feb 2021 at 12:29, Nick England wrote:
>
> > *Across* the resistor???? Do you
> > mean scope probe to one side and
> > ground clip to the other?
> >
> > Careful! If part of the loop is
> > grounded, and you hook up the scope
> > ground to the wrong spot, you can
> > short out the power supply. Sparks
> > sparking! Fuses fusing! Transistors
> > blowing quickly to protect the fuse!
>
> Well, yes ...  but never a good idea to
> stick an instrument that's not 'floating'
> into any circuit.
>
> > I am a M33 ignoramous, but isn?t
> > there a selector magnet driver?
> > That?s where Russ was talking about
> > ripple, not a signal loop.
>
> Well, the complaint is bad characters
> being printed ...  scoping across the
> selector magnet should give the same
> waveform as scoping across the current
> limit resistor, except you might also see
> spikes from the inductance ...   and wouldn't
> your caveat about ground hold for clipping
> on the SM as well ?
>
> > I could be reading this all wrong.
> > Nick
>
> or maybe I am ...
>
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 11, 2021 at 11:55 AM Jim Cooper <jim.w2jc at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On 11 Feb 2021 at 11:20, Andy KN4UCL wrote:
> > >
> > > > *Well that makes sense. Looking at
> > > > my ring binder (Tech bulletin 310B
> > > > Vol2) I have a power supply circuit
> > > > diagram, but I am not sure where I
> > > > would physically plug in my highly
> > > > underused budget Hantek scope...*
> > >
> > > If your scope can handle the voltage,
> > > one simple place to put the scope is
> > > across the current limiting resistor
> > > in the loop (usually about a 2k resistor).
> > >
> > > You will then see the square pattern of
> > > the character code.
> > >
> > > w2jc
> > >
> > >
> > > ______________________________________________________________
> > > GreenKeys mailing list
> > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > > Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> > >
> > > >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> > > https://teletype.net/gksearch
> > > >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> > > http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> > > >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> > > http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> > > >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> > > http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> > >
> > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > > Please help support this email list:
> > http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > > Message delivered to navy.radio at gmail.com
> > >
> > --
> > Nick England K4NYW
> > www.navy-radio.com
> >
>
>
>
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From pbirkel at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 07:25:21 2021
From: pbirkel at gmail.com (Paul Birkel)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 07:25:21 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Teletypewriter Reperforator TT-109/FG -- Seeking TM
	11-2228, TM 11-5815-257-20P, and TM 11-5815-257-35P
In-Reply-To: <8c88d074-713e-f9fd-4798-289eb96119e0@earthlink.net>
References: <064001d70099$6cde8e40$469baac0$@gmail.com>
	<8c88d074-713e-f9fd-4798-289eb96119e0@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <083001d7013a$222d6410$66882c30$@gmail.com>

Duncan:  Thank you for the TT-76 tip!  I as yet know *nothing* about
Kleinschmidt gear; while functionally equivalent to Teletype it?s pretty
clear that they have quite different mechanical designs from the Teletype
M14 / M15 gear that I?m currently learning.  So I?m trying to get smart
before I touch the wrong place at the wrong time in the wrong manner :->.  I
didn?t realize that Kleinschmidt documentation was a problem
across-the-board; assumed that I just managed to get unlucky with my
particular equipment!

Looking briefly at those documents, the -35 is the valuable low-level
maintenance publication.  In none of the documents do the overall mechanism
illustrations look reasonably similar to my unit, however in the -35
document a number of detailed illustrations are clearly related (e.g., the
selecting-and-printing functional diagrams) and likely the
selecting-and-punching mechanisms diagrams as well.  Seeing the various
circuit diagrams is also helpful in confirming what I am seeing.

-----Original Message-----
From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net
[mailto:greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Duncan Brown
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2021 1:06 PM
To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Teletypewriter Reperforator TT-109/FG -- Seeking TM
11-2228, TM 11-5815-257-20P, and TM 11-5815-257-35P

Paul,

Yes, TM 11-2228 is hard to find.

However, the TT-109 series is basically a "RO" (receive only) TT-76. The 
TT-76 manual is TM 11-5815-238-xx. They are available at 
http://rattrig.com/manuals/tm's.htm 
The xx is : 10 = operator manual; 20 = low level maintenance manual; 35 
= high level maintenance. The "P" suffix denotes a parts manual.

have fun,

Duncan
K2OEQ

On 11-Feb-21 12:14, Paul Birkel wrote:
>
> Several years later 
 the saga continues.? While I?m continuing my 
> education on an M15 I decided to take a closer look at my TT-109/FG 
> now that I?m a bit more knowledgeable on such topics :->.
>
> I finally found some information in 
> https://usermanual.wiki/Manual/KleinschmidtCat70.1239740731.pdf 
> <https://usermanual.wiki/Manual/KleinschmidtCat70.1239740731.pdf> 
> ?pages 24-26 of 61.? It has a serial governed motor, standard print 
> symbols, two gear sets (60 & 100 WPM), supports Neutral @ 20 and 60 
> mA, and Polar 30 mA.? The mechanisms in mine look to be in pretty good 
> shape, although the rest certainly needs a cleaning, and of course 
> general lubrication is in order.
>
> There?s also a description found in: 
> https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/408320.pdf 
> <https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/408320.pdf> pages 36-38.
>
> Technical manual is *TM 11-2228 (TO 31W4-2FG-181)* ? no name specified 
> anywhere.
>
> No luck finding this document.? The two TMs listed below remain 
> undiscovered, too.? So 
 here I am with a ?data call?. Thank you.
>
> *From:*Paul Birkel [mailto:pbirkel at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, November 27, 2017 3:09 AM
> *To:* greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
> *Subject:* Speaking of Military Teletypes (Teletypewriter Reperforator 
> TT-109/FG)
>
> This one is actually a Kleinschmidt, but I?ve had no luck finding any 
> online documentation.? The closest that I?ve been able to find are 
> references to parts lists:
>
> *TM 11-5815-257-20P*Organizational Maintenance Repair Parts and 
> Special Tool Lists: Reperforator, Teletypewriters TT-107/FG, 
> TT-107B/FG, TT-109/FG, TT-345/FG, TT-345A/FG, TT-346/FG, and TT-364A/FG
>
> *TM 11-5815-257-35P*Field and Depot Maintenance Repair Parts and 
> Special Tool Lists: Reperforator, Teletypewriters TT-107/FG, 
> TT-107B/FG, TT-109/FG, TT-345/FG, TT-345A/FG, TT-346/FG, and TT-364A/FG
>
> Judging by Duncan?s comments regarding the TT-4A I suspect that 
> neither of these two documents (if found) would be much help.
>
> Is anyone familiar with this reperforator?? Know of any documentation 
> for it?
>
> Also, the repeated use of ?FG? in the designations means what? ?Field 
> Grade? :->?? Would there be a (e.g.) different housing for ?office grade??
>
> Thanks!
>
> -----
>
> paul
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to duncanancy at earthlink.net

______________________________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net

>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to pbirkel at gmail.com


From jim.w2jc at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 12:06:00 2021
From: jim.w2jc at gmail.com (Jim Cooper)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 12:06:00 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Teletypewriter Reperforator TT-109/FG -- Seeking TM
	11-2228, TM 11-5815-257-20P, and TM 11-5815-257-35P
In-Reply-To: <083001d7013a$222d6410$66882c30$@gmail.com>
References: <064001d70099$6cde8e40$469baac0$@gmail.com>,
	<8c88d074-713e-f9fd-4798-289eb96119e0@earthlink.net>,
	<083001d7013a$222d6410$66882c30$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6026B578.27213.23EFB306@jim.w2jc.gmail.com>

On 12 Feb 2021 at 7:25, Paul Birkel wrote:

> Yes, TM 11-2228 is hard to find.

I checked my literally vast library of 
TM 11- s   and this is one that I do NOT have.  :((

Jim  w2jc 



From navy.radio at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 15:39:36 2021
From: navy.radio at gmail.com (Nick England)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 15:39:36 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Teletypewriter Reperforator TT-109/FG -- Seeking TM
 11-2228, TM 11-5815-257-20P, and TM 11-5815-257-35P
In-Reply-To: <083001d7013a$222d6410$66882c30$@gmail.com>
References: <064001d70099$6cde8e40$469baac0$@gmail.com>
	<8c88d074-713e-f9fd-4798-289eb96119e0@earthlink.net>
	<083001d7013a$222d6410$66882c30$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB55hNdM=yfqc3Lo12_AM+YmC0K4QJ=4-8H=_oVCUeB28OYyFg@mail.gmail.com>

Now on line, TM 11-2225 (May 1957) for the TT-76 and TT-76A
http://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/tty/kleinschmidt/tt76-tm11-2225-5705.pdf

Other Kleinschmidt manuals and catalogs are at
http://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/tty/kleinschmidt.htm
cheers,
Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com


On Fri, Feb 12, 2021 at 7:26 AM Paul Birkel <pbirkel at gmail.com> wrote:

> Duncan:  Thank you for the TT-76 tip!  I as yet know *nothing* about
> Kleinschmidt gear; while functionally equivalent to Teletype it?s pretty
> clear that they have quite different mechanical designs from the Teletype
> M14 / M15 gear that I?m currently learning.  So I?m trying to get smart
> before I touch the wrong place at the wrong time in the wrong manner :->.
> I
> didn?t realize that Kleinschmidt documentation was a problem
> across-the-board; assumed that I just managed to get unlucky with my
> particular equipment!
>
> Looking briefly at those documents, the -35 is the valuable low-level
> maintenance publication.  In none of the documents do the overall mechanism
> illustrations look reasonably similar to my unit, however in the -35
> document a number of detailed illustrations are clearly related (e.g., the
> selecting-and-printing functional diagrams) and likely the
> selecting-and-punching mechanisms diagrams as well.  Seeing the various
> circuit diagrams is also helpful in confirming what I am seeing.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Duncan Brown
> Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2021 1:06 PM
> To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Teletypewriter Reperforator TT-109/FG -- Seeking
> TM
> 11-2228, TM 11-5815-257-20P, and TM 11-5815-257-35P
>
> Paul,
>
> Yes, TM 11-2228 is hard to find.
>
> However, the TT-109 series is basically a "RO" (receive only) TT-76. The
> TT-76 manual is TM 11-5815-238-xx. They are available at
> http://rattrig.com/manuals/tm's.htm
> The xx is : 10 = operator manual; 20 = low level maintenance manual; 35
> = high level maintenance. The "P" suffix denotes a parts manual.
>
> have fun,
>
> Duncan
> K2OEQ
>
>
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From djones at k6yic.com  Fri Feb 12 19:32:32 2021
From: djones at k6yic.com (Daniel Jones)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 16:32:32 -0800
Subject: [GreenKeys] WPX contest this weekend
Message-ID: <DBAB0468-BA2A-489A-8D0A-A4A7C25695EC@k6yic.com>

The WPX is creating a lot of traffic.  I was at 14086 and could see at least 6-7 separate RTTY signals. 

Daniel

K6YIC 
http://K6YIC.com

From pbirkel at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 04:30:55 2021
From: pbirkel at gmail.com (Paul Birkel)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 04:30:55 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Teletypewriter Reperforator TT-109/FG -- Seeking TM
	11-2228, TM 11-5815-257-20P, and TM 11-5815-257-35P
In-Reply-To: <CAB55hNdM=yfqc3Lo12_AM+YmC0K4QJ=4-8H=_oVCUeB28OYyFg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <064001d70099$6cde8e40$469baac0$@gmail.com>
	<8c88d074-713e-f9fd-4798-289eb96119e0@earthlink.net>
	<083001d7013a$222d6410$66882c30$@gmail.com>
	<CAB55hNdM=yfqc3Lo12_AM+YmC0K4QJ=4-8H=_oVCUeB28OYyFg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000401d701ea$ee66ab80$cb340280$@gmail.com>

Thank you Nick.

 

From: Nick England [mailto:navy.radio at gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2021 3:40 PM
To: Paul Birkel
Cc: Duncan Brown; Greenkeys
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Teletypewriter Reperforator TT-109/FG -- Seeking TM 11-2228, TM 11-5815-257-20P, and TM 11-5815-257-35P

 

Now on line, TM 11-2225 (May 1957) for the TT-76 and TT-76A

http://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/tty/kleinschmidt/tt76-tm11-2225-5705.pdf

 

Other Kleinschmidt manuals and catalogs are at

http://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/tty/kleinschmidt.htm

cheers,

Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com

 

 

On Fri, Feb 12, 2021 at 7:26 AM Paul Birkel <pbirkel at gmail.com> wrote:

Duncan:  Thank you for the TT-76 tip!  I as yet know *nothing* about
Kleinschmidt gear; while functionally equivalent to Teletype it?s pretty
clear that they have quite different mechanical designs from the Teletype
M14 / M15 gear that I?m currently learning.  So I?m trying to get smart
before I touch the wrong place at the wrong time in the wrong manner :->.  I
didn?t realize that Kleinschmidt documentation was a problem
across-the-board; assumed that I just managed to get unlucky with my
particular equipment!

Looking briefly at those documents, the -35 is the valuable low-level
maintenance publication.  In none of the documents do the overall mechanism
illustrations look reasonably similar to my unit, however in the -35
document a number of detailed illustrations are clearly related (e.g., the
selecting-and-printing functional diagrams) and likely the
selecting-and-punching mechanisms diagrams as well.  Seeing the various
circuit diagrams is also helpful in confirming what I am seeing.

-----Original Message-----
From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net
[mailto:greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Duncan Brown
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2021 1:06 PM
To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Teletypewriter Reperforator TT-109/FG -- Seeking TM
11-2228, TM 11-5815-257-20P, and TM 11-5815-257-35P

Paul,

Yes, TM 11-2228 is hard to find.

However, the TT-109 series is basically a "RO" (receive only) TT-76. The 
TT-76 manual is TM 11-5815-238-xx. They are available at 
http://rattrig.com/manuals/tm's.htm 
The xx is : 10 = operator manual; 20 = low level maintenance manual; 35 
= high level maintenance. The "P" suffix denotes a parts manual.

have fun,

Duncan
K2OEQ

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From pbirkel at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 06:02:54 2021
From: pbirkel at gmail.com (Paul Birkel)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 06:02:54 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Kleinschmidt Type Wheel
Message-ID: <003f01d701f7$c7b7cb60$57276220$@gmail.com>

All;

 

Based on dates in Army FM it appears that the introduction/use of the
Kleinschmidt type wheel (ca. 1965), instead of the standard type-basket seen
in typewriters and Teletype M14/15/19 equipment, follows the introduction by
IBM of the "golfball" typewriter mechanism (1961), and predates mechanisms
like the daisy wheel (Diablo, 1970) and spinwriter (NEC, 1977).

 

How far off-the-mark am I in that statement?  Would anyone care to elaborate
on the why's and wherefores regarding types of printing mechanisms in the GK
repertoire?  (Yes, to include the "type pallet" design :->.)

 

I'm curious.  The Kleinschmidt type wheel seems to have the type-basket
approach beat hands-down, at least in the restrictive context of a
tape-printer mechanism.

 

Thank you,

paul

 

 

 

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From pbirkel at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 06:05:42 2021
From: pbirkel at gmail.com (Paul Birkel)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 06:05:42 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Teletypewriter Reperforator TT-109/FG -- Seeking TM
	11-2228, TM 11-5815-257-20P, and TM 11-5815-257-35P
Message-ID: <005001d701f8$2be4a180$83ade480$@gmail.com>

Thank you Jim.  Apparently my vision needs enhancement :-<.  It's actually
TM-2226 (six, not eight).  The PDF is of limited resolution, but a (more)
careful inspection of it does document the error of my ways!

-----Original Message-----
From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net
[mailto:greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Cooper
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2021 12:06 PM
To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Teletypewriter Reperforator TT-109/FG -- Seeking TM
11-2228, TM 11-5815-257-20P, and TM 11-5815-257-35P

On 12 Feb 2021 at 7:25, Paul Birkel wrote:

> Yes, TM 11-2228 is hard to find.

I checked my literally vast library of 
TM 11- s   and this is one that I do NOT have.  :((

Jim  w2jc 


______________________________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net

>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to pbirkel at gmail.com


From steve.n4tty at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 06:22:34 2021
From: steve.n4tty at gmail.com (Steve Garrison)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 06:22:34 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Kleinschmidt Type Wheel
In-Reply-To: <003f01d701f7$c7b7cb60$57276220$@gmail.com>
References: <003f01d701f7$c7b7cb60$57276220$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <027001d701fa$873b9640$95b2c2c0$@gmail.com>

That style of typewheel was introduced a good while before 1965, I'd guess
more than 10 years earlier, and is in the M28 reperfs as well.

 

I trained on them in early 1966 and if they had just been recently
introduced I would not have been seeing them everywhere in the comm centers
I worked.

 

Steve G./N4TTY 

 

From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net <greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net>
On Behalf Of Paul Birkel
Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2021 6:03 AM
To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: [GreenKeys] Kleinschmidt Type Wheel

 

All;

 

Based on dates in Army FM it appears that the introduction/use of the
Kleinschmidt type wheel (ca. 1965), instead of the standard type-basket seen
in typewriters and Teletype M14/15/19 equipment, follows the introduction by
IBM of the "golfball" typewriter mechanism (1961), and predates mechanisms
like the daisy wheel (Diablo, 1970) and spinwriter (NEC, 1977).

 

How far off-the-mark am I in that statement?  Would anyone care to elaborate
on the why's and wherefores regarding types of printing mechanisms in the GK
repertoire?  (Yes, to include the "type pallet" design :->.)

 

I'm curious.  The Kleinschmidt type wheel seems to have the type-basket
approach beat hands-down, at least in the restrictive context of a
tape-printer mechanism.

 

Thank you,

paul

 

 

 

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From duncanancy at earthlink.net  Sat Feb 13 10:34:41 2021
From: duncanancy at earthlink.net (Duncan Brown)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 10:34:41 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Kleinschmidt Type Wheel
In-Reply-To: <003f01d701f7$c7b7cb60$57276220$@gmail.com>
References: <003f01d701f7$c7b7cb60$57276220$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1b8d2f10-857e-bcf2-ba9a-5c9f39bb382b@earthlink.net>

Paul,

There have been a lot of mechanisms for typing on "Printing Telegraphs".
The Teletype Corp. M26 used a typing mechanism sort of like a M28 type 
box rolled into a cylinder with the pallets on the outside and the 
hammer in the middle.

First, lets make a distinction between a "Type Wheel" and a "Type 
Cylinder". The M28 reperfs, M32/33 printers, KLI reperfs, and MITE 
military printers all use "Type Cylinders" with multiple rows of 
characters around the cylinder.? The earliest Type Cylinder that I have 
seen is on a 1908 Model 212 of the American Telegraph Typewriter Co.



The type cylinder is in the housing at the center. and the platen moves 
back and forth. This unit was NIB and the tag says something to the 
effect of "lubricated & tested 6/25/08"? This was one of the first units 
to use a permutation code, ie, some bits control the rotation of the 
cylinder and some control the height of the cylinder. So the cylinder 
can be moving as the bits are decoded. This is the same principle used 
many years later in the Teletype Corp. M28 type box, the MITE type 
cylinder and the IBM Selectric.


A Type Wheel has just one row - all the characters to be printed are 
arranged around the wheel.



This is a French unit made by Doignon, in Paris, c1900. It is a 5-bit 
machine copying Baudot's patent of c 1890 and an example of the 
beginnings of digital communications. The type wheel is in the center, 
with an inking wheel on the upper left. Note the keyboard. The operator 
had to know the 5-bit code and enter it on the 5 keys simultaneously.? 
This unit was used in an Italian Cable station into the 1930s. There 
were very early "Printing Telegraphs" patented around 1850 that used 
similar type wheels.

So type wheels and type cylinders have been around for quite awhile.

Have fun,

Duncan
K2OEQ

On 13-Feb-21 06:02, Paul Birkel wrote:
>
> All;
>
> Based on dates in Army FM it appears that the introduction/use of the 
> Kleinschmidt type wheel (ca. 1965), instead of the standard 
> type-basket seen in typewriters and Teletype M14/15/19 equipment, 
> follows the introduction by IBM of the ?golfball? typewriter mechanism 
> (1961), and predates mechanisms like the daisy wheel (Diablo, 1970) 
> and spinwriter (NEC, 1977).
>
> How far off-the-mark am I in that statement?? Would anyone care to 
> elaborate on the why?s and wherefores regarding types of printing 
> mechanisms in the GK repertoire? ?(Yes, to include the ?type pallet? 
> design :->.)
>
> I?m curious.? The Kleinschmidt type wheel seems to have the 
> type-basket approach beat hands-down, at least in the restrictive 
> context of a tape-printer mechanism.
>
> Thank you,
>
> paul//
>
>
>


From w9ddd at tapr.org  Sat Feb 13 13:26:52 2021
From: w9ddd at tapr.org (John, W9DDD)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 12:26:52 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] OT Tanner Electronics
Message-ID: <0767c79d-8726-d626-4504-965d187a0337@tapr.org>

Sadly the Dallas area go to for surplus parts is closed for good.

Anyone in the Dallas area know of another option?

-- 
John, W9DDD

From jhhaynes at earthlink.net  Sat Feb 13 18:18:33 2021
From: jhhaynes at earthlink.net (Jim Haynes)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 17:18:33 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [GreenKeys] Kleinschmidt Type Wheel
In-Reply-To: <1b8d2f10-857e-bcf2-ba9a-5c9f39bb382b@earthlink.net>
References: <003f01d701f7$c7b7cb60$57276220$@gmail.com>
	<1b8d2f10-857e-bcf2-ba9a-5c9f39bb382b@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.2102131700400.9018@Frances>

I always enjoy pointing out that Teletype patented the daisy wheel 
printer in 1939, but never produced it. (patent 2,146,380 to A. H. Reiber)
I guess the type wheel of Model 26 was more attractive at the time.
For one thing, they didn't have the plastic technology to make the daisy
wheels cheaply, and the Model 26 style with individual type pallets
made it easier to produce different type arrangements with one set of
parts.  And of course it was integrated circuit electronics that made
the daisywheel a winner circa 1970.  See Wikipedia article on daisy wheel
printing.

 	---

 	"Ya can argue all ya wanna, but it's dif'rent than it was."
 	"No it ain't! No it ain't!  But ya gotta know the territory."
 		Meredith Willson, The Music Man

From navy.radio at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 18:49:12 2021
From: navy.radio at gmail.com (Nick England)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 18:49:12 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Kleinschmidt Type Wheel
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.2102131700400.9018@Frances>
References: <003f01d701f7$c7b7cb60$57276220$@gmail.com>
	<1b8d2f10-857e-bcf2-ba9a-5c9f39bb382b@earthlink.net>
	<alpine.DEB.2.20.2102131700400.9018@Frances>
Message-ID: <CAB55hNeG+coLbPk+QUdWsBkVhNbXtr4=Vj76KxDPon6B7sexvA@mail.gmail.com>

A less commonly seen type wheel was in the WW2 era SIGABA (ECM Mk II)
crypto machine produced by Teletype.
https://www.cryptomuseum.com/crypto/usa/sigaba/img/300354/069/full.jpg
http://www.navy-radio.com/misc/mys/tape_printer/IMG_8274.JPG

I believe this was a ?stop the rotating wheel when the right character
comes into position? style mechanism. The wheel was Bakelite maybe?

Nick

On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 6:18 PM Jim Haynes <jhhaynes at earthlink.net> wrote:

> I always enjoy pointing out that Teletype patented the daisy wheel
> printer in 1939, but never produced it. (patent 2,146,380 to A. H. Reiber)
> I guess the type wheel of Model 26 was more attractive at the time.
> For one thing, they didn't have the plastic technology to make the daisy
> wheels cheaply, and the Model 26 style with individual type pallets
> made it easier to produce different type arrangements with one set of
> parts.  And of course it was integrated circuit electronics that made
> the daisywheel a winner circa 1970.  See Wikipedia article on daisy wheel
> printing.
>
>         ---
>
>         "Ya can argue all ya wanna, but it's dif'rent than it was."
>         "No it ain't! No it ain't!  But ya gotta know the territory."
>                 Meredith Willson, The Music Man
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to navy.radio at gmail.com
>
-- 
Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com
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From gblock at sbcglobal.net  Sat Feb 13 19:24:25 2021
From: gblock at sbcglobal.net (Gerry)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 16:24:25 -0800
Subject: [GreenKeys] Kleinschmidt Type Wheel
In-Reply-To: <CAB55hNeG+coLbPk+QUdWsBkVhNbXtr4=Vj76KxDPon6B7sexvA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB55hNeG+coLbPk+QUdWsBkVhNbXtr4=Vj76KxDPon6B7sexvA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E94F6666-89FA-49F8-92F5-C36FA648CF62@sbcglobal.net>

My 5B stock ticker (teletype) uses a type wheel (inked). Circa 1930

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 13, 2021, at 3:50 PM, Nick England <navy.radio at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> A less commonly seen type wheel was in the WW2 era SIGABA (ECM Mk II) crypto machine produced by Teletype. 
> https://www.cryptomuseum.com/crypto/usa/sigaba/img/300354/069/full.jpg
> http://www.navy-radio.com/misc/mys/tape_printer/IMG_8274.JPG
> 
> I believe this was a ?stop the rotating wheel when the right character comes into position? style mechanism. The wheel was Bakelite maybe?
> 
> Nick
> 
>> On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 6:18 PM Jim Haynes <jhhaynes at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> I always enjoy pointing out that Teletype patented the daisy wheel 
>> printer in 1939, but never produced it. (patent 2,146,380 to A. H. Reiber)
>> I guess the type wheel of Model 26 was more attractive at the time.
>> For one thing, they didn't have the plastic technology to make the daisy
>> wheels cheaply, and the Model 26 style with individual type pallets
>> made it easier to produce different type arrangements with one set of
>> parts.  And of course it was integrated circuit electronics that made
>> the daisywheel a winner circa 1970.  See Wikipedia article on daisy wheel
>> printing.
>> 
>>         ---
>> 
>>         "Ya can argue all ya wanna, but it's dif'rent than it was."
>>         "No it ain't! No it ain't!  But ya gotta know the territory."
>>                 Meredith Willson, The Music Man
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> GreenKeys mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>> 
>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>> 
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to navy.radio at gmail.com
> -- 
> Nick England K4NYW
> www.navy-radio.com
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> 
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to gblock at sbcglobal.net
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From jhhaynes at earthlink.net  Sat Feb 13 19:28:57 2021
From: jhhaynes at earthlink.net (Jim Haynes)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 18:28:57 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [GreenKeys] Kleinschmidt Type Wheel
In-Reply-To: <CAB55hNeG+coLbPk+QUdWsBkVhNbXtr4=Vj76KxDPon6B7sexvA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <003f01d701f7$c7b7cb60$57276220$@gmail.com>
	<1b8d2f10-857e-bcf2-ba9a-5c9f39bb382b@earthlink.net>
	<alpine.DEB.2.20.2102131700400.9018@Frances>
	<CAB55hNeG+coLbPk+QUdWsBkVhNbXtr4=Vj76KxDPon6B7sexvA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.2102131828140.9994@Frances>

Then there's also Model31 which uses a 120 degree sector as the print
element.  See Teletype manual 200B.

 	---

 	"Ya can argue all ya wanna, but it's dif'rent than it was."
 	"No it ain't! No it ain't!  But ya gotta know the territory."
 		Meredith Willson, The Music Man

From jhhaynes at earthlink.net  Sat Feb 13 22:27:53 2021
From: jhhaynes at earthlink.net (Jim Haynes)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 21:27:53 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [GreenKeys] Kleinschmidt Type Wheel
In-Reply-To: <E94F6666-89FA-49F8-92F5-C36FA648CF62@sbcglobal.net>
References: <CAB55hNeG+coLbPk+QUdWsBkVhNbXtr4=Vj76KxDPon6B7sexvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<E94F6666-89FA-49F8-92F5-C36FA648CF62@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.2102132122220.12558@Frances>

On Sat, 13 Feb 2021, Gerry wrote:

> My 5B stock ticker (teletype) uses a type wheel (inked). Circa 1930
> 
Yes, and Western Union had a tape printer they called a 400 series that 
was based on the same machine.  I don't know if Teletype made them, or if 
W.U. made them out of leftover stock tickers, possibly using some Model 26 
parts.  Used an inked rubber type wheel and I don't remember now if the 
type wheel or the print hammer and tape guide moved between LTRS and FIGS 
cases.

From kg5ylg at austin.rr.com  Sat Feb 13 17:59:15 2021
From: kg5ylg at austin.rr.com (John Hargett)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 16:59:15 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] WU 28ASR WIRING
Message-ID: <081d29de-17b5-2227-65a8-80a98d39e489@austin.rr.com>

Getting thru my 28ASR that I got some time back.? Have it receiving ITTY 
now, able to also punch tape, as well as run tape. Have a couple of 
questions that I am sure someone out there has more knowledge than I? ( 
that doesnt take too much) about these machines.? Two items I am looking 
at are:

1)? The LESU, which is a Western Union 9797 wiring cabinet, has the 
positive side of the loop supply tied to ground @? C-2 and the negative 
floating.? What is the design behind this?? I have looked at other LESU 
wiring diagrams and do not see them showing this. Would it be 
detrimental to put the neg at ground potential?


2) When I run tape on the LXD, it comes out all random and missing CR 
and LF .? Ran a tape RYRYRY? and get not RYRYRY on print.? Does not LF 
or CR at correct times.? Tape was preceded by multiple LF and CR then 
LTRS, Ran 40 characters RY, followed by CR,CR,CR,LF,LF, then 40 more RY 
followed by CR, CR, CR, LF, LF, then 40 more RY followed by CR, CR, CR, 
LF, LF.? What i got on type was? a couple of? over types at the start, 
then KCBSCCBSCCBSCCBECCBECCBSCCBER then it did a single LF and continued 
with the same basic characters, then did a CR and same basic characters.

Is this a timing issue with the LXD signal generator?


Dont know if it will come thru, but a copy of the 9797 wiring diagram is 
attached.


Thanks in advance

John

KG5YLG



-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
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From w9ddd at tapr.org  Sat Feb 13 23:30:01 2021
From: w9ddd at tapr.org (w9ddd at tapr.org)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 22:30:01 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] WU 28ASR WIRING
In-Reply-To: <081d29de-17b5-2227-65a8-80a98d39e489@austin.rr.com>
References: <081d29de-17b5-2227-65a8-80a98d39e489@austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <8E6996F6-06EC-4CB7-BF6B-90348129F9A3@tapr.org>

Hopefully someone knows more about this than I can seem to remember.   Seems like there is something about the chemistry of wet cell batteries that lead to telephone and telegraph systems connecting the battery + terminal to ground.  I remember that British cars used positive battery ground at one time.  

John, W9DDD


> On Feb 13, 2021, at 4:59 PM, John Hargett <kg5ylg at austin.rr.com> wrote:
> 
> Getting thru my 28ASR that I got some time back.  Have it receiving ITTY now, able to also punch tape, as well as run tape.  Have a couple of questions that I am sure someone out there has more knowledge than I  ( that doesnt take too much) about these machines.  Two items I am looking at are:
> 
> 1)  The LESU, which is a Western Union 9797 wiring cabinet, has the positive side of the loop supply tied to ground @  C-2 and the negative floating.  What is the design behind this?  I have looked at other LESU wiring diagrams and do not see them showing this. Would it be detrimental to put the neg at ground potential?
> 
> 
> 2) When I run tape on the LXD, it comes out all random and missing CR and LF .  Ran a tape RYRYRY  and get not RYRYRY on print.  Does not LF or CR at correct times.  Tape was preceded by multiple LF and CR then LTRS, Ran 40 characters RY, followed by CR,CR,CR,LF,LF, then 40 more RY followed by CR, CR, CR, LF, LF, then 40 more RY followed by CR, CR, CR, LF, LF.  What i got on type was  a couple of  over types at the start, then KCBSCCBSCCBSCCBECCBECCBSCCBER then it did a single LF and continued with the same basic characters, then did a CR and same basic characters.  
> Is this a timing issue with the LXD signal generator? 
> 
> Dont know if it will come thru, but a copy of the 9797 wiring diagram is attached.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> John
> 
> KG5YLG
> 
> 	Virus-free. www.avg.com
> <wu9797wd.pdf>
> <wu9797wd_MKUP.pdf>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> 
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to w9ddd at tapr.org
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From pbirkel at gmail.com  Sun Feb 14 02:14:29 2021
From: pbirkel at gmail.com (Paul Birkel)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2021 02:14:29 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Kleinschmidt Type Wheel
In-Reply-To: <1b8d2f10-857e-bcf2-ba9a-5c9f39bb382b@earthlink.net>
References: <003f01d701f7$c7b7cb60$57276220$@gmail.com>
	<1b8d2f10-857e-bcf2-ba9a-5c9f39bb382b@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <01bf01d702a1$09553bd0$1bffb370$@gmail.com>

Thank you Duncan.  Do you have URLs for the missing photos?  I tried to
search for example photos but failed in the first case.  The following seems
to be example of the second case.

    https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/11285/lot/151/ 
    A Baudot Printing Telegraph Receiver, French, early 20th century,
    stamped L.Doignon - Malakoff SI No. 2298 -E64, with electric motor,
30.5cm(12in) long

And then the following appears to fit your description of the associated
keyboard:

 
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/baudot-type-telegraph-keyboard-system
-grunenwald--68-c-n3nrc9jpny 

Reminds me of early stenographer keyboards ... but without any visual
feedback :-<.  Examples: https://www.stenograph.com/history-writers 

Agree that the term "type wheel" is ambiguous given that the Daisy wheel
rather firmly affixed the concept in modern parlance to the elements
appearing radially around the shaft in a single plane corresponding to the
printing surface (when impacting).  But that's what the Kleinschmidt
documentation for the TT-76 calls their mechanism (being a "tire" wheel with
two rows of "tread" I imagine)

Agree that the actual item is a cylinder generally similar to a M32 or M33,
but with fewer bands (just two) and more elements-per-band (one per keyboard
element).  Your description of a "permutation code" seems to apply to the
M32/33 mechanism, yes?

-----Original Message-----
From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net
[mailto:greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Duncan Brown
Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2021 10:35 AM
To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Kleinschmidt Type Wheel

Paul,

There have been a lot of mechanisms for typing on "Printing Telegraphs".
The Teletype Corp. M26 used a typing mechanism sort of like a M28 type 
box rolled into a cylinder with the pallets on the outside and the 
hammer in the middle.

First, lets make a distinction between a "Type Wheel" and a "Type 
Cylinder". The M28 reperfs, M32/33 printers, KLI reperfs, and MITE 
military printers all use "Type Cylinders" with multiple rows of 
characters around the cylinder.? The earliest Type Cylinder that I have 
seen is on a 1908 Model 212 of the American Telegraph Typewriter Co.



The type cylinder is in the housing at the center. and the platen moves 
back and forth. This unit was NIB and the tag says something to the 
effect of "lubricated & tested 6/25/08"? This was one of the first units 
to use a permutation code, ie, some bits control the rotation of the 
cylinder and some control the height of the cylinder. So the cylinder 
can be moving as the bits are decoded. This is the same principle used 
many years later in the Teletype Corp. M28 type box, the MITE type 
cylinder and the IBM Selectric.


A Type Wheel has just one row - all the characters to be printed are 
arranged around the wheel.



This is a French unit made by Doignon, in Paris, c1900. It is a 5-bit 
machine copying Baudot's patent of c 1890 and an example of the 
beginnings of digital communications. The type wheel is in the center, 
with an inking wheel on the upper left. Note the keyboard. The operator 
had to know the 5-bit code and enter it on the 5 keys simultaneously.? 
This unit was used in an Italian Cable station into the 1930s. There 
were very early "Printing Telegraphs" patented around 1850 that used 
similar type wheels.

So type wheels and type cylinders have been around for quite awhile.

Have fun,

Duncan
K2OEQ

On 13-Feb-21 06:02, Paul Birkel wrote:
>
> All;
>
> Based on dates in Army FM it appears that the introduction/use of the 
> Kleinschmidt type wheel (ca. 1965), instead of the standard 
> type-basket seen in typewriters and Teletype M14/15/19 equipment, 
> follows the introduction by IBM of the ?golfball? typewriter mechanism 
> (1961), and predates mechanisms like the daisy wheel (Diablo, 1970) 
> and spinwriter (NEC, 1977).
>
> How far off-the-mark am I in that statement?? Would anyone care to 
> elaborate on the why?s and wherefores regarding types of printing 
> mechanisms in the GK repertoire? ?(Yes, to include the ?type pallet? 
> design :->.)
>
> I?m curious.? The Kleinschmidt type wheel seems to have the 
> type-basket approach beat hands-down, at least in the restrictive 
> context of a tape-printer mechanism.
>
> Thank you,
>
> paul//
>
>
>

______________________________________________________________
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Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net

>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html

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From jhhaynes at earthlink.net  Sun Feb 14 09:36:28 2021
From: jhhaynes at earthlink.net (Jim Haynes)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2021 08:36:28 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [GreenKeys] WU 28ASR WIRING
In-Reply-To: <8E6996F6-06EC-4CB7-BF6B-90348129F9A3@tapr.org>
References: <081d29de-17b5-2227-65a8-80a98d39e489@austin.rr.com>
	<8E6996F6-06EC-4CB7-BF6B-90348129F9A3@tapr.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.2102140830400.3141@Frances>

On Sat, 13 Feb 2021, w9ddd at tapr.org wrote:

> Hopefully someone knows more about this than I can seem to remember. ? Seems
> like there is something about the chemistry of wet cell batteries that lead
> to telephone and telegraph systems connecting the battery + terminal to
> ground. ?I remember that British cars used positive battery ground at one

I think this has something to do with corrosion.  See electroplating.
The negative electrode attracts metal ions, whereas the positive electrode
pulls them away from the metal, eating away at it.

From navy.radio at gmail.com  Sun Feb 14 09:40:47 2021
From: navy.radio at gmail.com (Nick England)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2021 09:40:47 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] WU 28ASR WIRING
In-Reply-To: <081d29de-17b5-2227-65a8-80a98d39e489@austin.rr.com>
References: <081d29de-17b5-2227-65a8-80a98d39e489@austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <CAB55hNe1_K60xGtE6U3hxXaGAjJ0RxgcD3nk6OA-Y82qVYgzBg@mail.gmail.com>

As I dimly recall, John was correct about + ground for battery systems.
However I have no idea why WU grounded both the signal line and internal
supply + at C2. Or why they tied the internal supply to the signal line at
all. IIRC always Teletype isolated the internal supply from the signal line.

My first ASR was a WU one with the 9797 - I do remember being highly
surprised to find the signal line (C2) grounded to chassis - that flat
won't work when you have a keyer that grounds the loop for mark (like some
old tube keyers). And sparks gesparken depending on your loop topology.

If your characters are OK from the keyboard, then yes I'd suspect these
possibles for the LXD
1. dirty/binding sensing fingers
2. misadjusted transmitter - correct with the eccentric adjustment
3. dirt/oil on contacts inside
4. bad filter cap inside

Good Luck and Have Fun
Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com


On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 10:34 PM John Hargett <kg5ylg at austin.rr.com> wrote:

> Getting thru my 28ASR that I got some time back.  Have it receiving ITTY
> now, able to also punch tape, as well as run tape.  Have a couple of
> questions that I am sure someone out there has more knowledge than I  (
> that doesnt take too much) about these machines.  Two items I am looking at
> are:
>
> 1)  The LESU, which is a Western Union 9797 wiring cabinet, has the
> positive side of the loop supply tied to ground @  C-2 and the negative
> floating.  What is the design behind this?  I have looked at other LESU
> wiring diagrams and do not see them showing this. Would it be detrimental
> to put the neg at ground potential?
>
>
> 2) When I run tape on the LXD, it comes out all random and missing CR and
> LF .  Ran a tape RYRYRY  and get not RYRYRY on print.  Does not LF or CR at
> correct times.  Tape was preceded by multiple LF and CR then LTRS, Ran 40
> characters RY, followed by CR,CR,CR,LF,LF, then 40 more RY followed by CR,
> CR, CR, LF, LF, then 40 more RY followed by CR, CR, CR, LF, LF.  What i got
> on type was  a couple of  over types at the start, then
> KCBSCCBSCCBSCCBECCBECCBSCCBER then it did a single LF and continued with
> the same basic characters, then did a CR and same basic characters.
>
> Is this a timing issue with the LXD signal generator?
>
>
> Dont know if it will come thru, but a copy of the 9797 wiring diagram is
> attached.
>
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> John
>
> KG5YLG
>
>
> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> Virus-free.
> www.avg.com
> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
> <#m_2095076315609712272_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to navy.radio at gmail.com
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From douglas-w-jones at uiowa.edu  Sun Feb 14 09:57:30 2021
From: douglas-w-jones at uiowa.edu (Jones, Douglas W)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2021 14:57:30 +0000
Subject: [GreenKeys] [External] Re:  WU 28ASR WIRING
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.2102140830400.3141@Frances>
References: <081d29de-17b5-2227-65a8-80a98d39e489@austin.rr.com>
	<8E6996F6-06EC-4CB7-BF6B-90348129F9A3@tapr.org>,
	<alpine.DEB.2.20.2102140830400.3141@Frances>
Message-ID: <DM6PR04MB5003AB8EBE01301909A446FBA8899@DM6PR04MB5003.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>

From: Jim Haynes [jhhaynes at earthlink.net] -- Sunday, February 14, 2021 8:36 AM

> I think this has something to do with corrosion.  See electroplating.
> The negative electrode attracts metal ions, whereas the positive electrode
> pulls them away from the metal, eating away at it.

Exacty.  This was a huge issue in the era of electric street railways, where current leakage from the track to gas pipes parallel to the track caused rapid corrosion and gas leaks.  They quickly learned to keep everything positive with respect to the gas pipes.

       Doug Jones
       jones at cs.uiowa.edu



From navy.radio at gmail.com  Sun Feb 14 10:01:28 2021
From: navy.radio at gmail.com (Nick England)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2021 10:01:28 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] WU 28ASR WIRING
In-Reply-To: <081d29de-17b5-2227-65a8-80a98d39e489@austin.rr.com>
References: <081d29de-17b5-2227-65a8-80a98d39e489@austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <CAB55hNfRv4Bc1E7adhhV0Uxev8H7ecgf7wwju4i9XsNBf+kC3A@mail.gmail.com>

Oh yeah. Is it possible that the LXD gear set speed doesn?t match the
printer gear set speed?
I don?t know why someone would have them running at different speeds but it
is possible.
Nick

On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 10:34 PM John Hargett <kg5ylg at austin.rr.com> wrote:

> Getting thru my 28ASR that I got some time back.  Have it receiving ITTY
> now, able to also punch tape, as well as run tape.  Have a couple of
> questions that I am sure someone out there has more knowledge than I  (
> that doesnt take too much) about these machines.  Two items I am looking at
> are:
>
> 1)  The LESU, which is a Western Union 9797 wiring cabinet, has the
> positive side of the loop supply tied to ground @  C-2 and the negative
> floating.  What is the design behind this?  I have looked at other LESU
> wiring diagrams and do not see them showing this. Would it be detrimental
> to put the neg at ground potential?
>
>
> 2) When I run tape on the LXD, it comes out all random and missing CR and
> LF .  Ran a tape RYRYRY  and get not RYRYRY on print.  Does not LF or CR at
> correct times.  Tape was preceded by multiple LF and CR then LTRS, Ran 40
> characters RY, followed by CR,CR,CR,LF,LF, then 40 more RY followed by CR,
> CR, CR, LF, LF, then 40 more RY followed by CR, CR, CR, LF, LF.  What i got
> on type was  a couple of  over types at the start, then
> KCBSCCBSCCBSCCBECCBECCBSCCBER then it did a single LF and continued with
> the same basic characters, then did a CR and same basic characters.
>
> Is this a timing issue with the LXD signal generator?
>
>
> Dont know if it will come thru, but a copy of the 9797 wiring diagram is
> attached.
>
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> John
>
> KG5YLG
>
>
> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> Virus-free.
> www.avg.com
> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
> <#m_4233015961154321319_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to navy.radio at gmail.com

-- 
Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com
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From til128 at juno.com  Sun Feb 14 10:54:01 2021
From: til128 at juno.com (til128 at juno.com)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2021 15:54:01 GMT
Subject: [GreenKeys] WU 28ASR WIRING
Message-ID: <20210214.105401.20602.0@webmail02.dca.untd.com>

In the FWIW category, before making any adjustments, or replacing of parts I would clean the contacts first. Tom

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Nick England <navy.radio at gmail.com>
To: John Hargett <kg5ylg at austin.rr.com>
Cc: Greenkeys <GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] WU 28ASR WIRING
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2021 09:40:47 -0500


As I dimly recall, John was correct about + ground for battery systems.However I have no idea why WU grounded both the signal line and internal supply + at C2. Or why they tied the internal supply to the signal line at all. IIRC always Teletype isolated the internal supply from the signal line. My first ASR was a WU one with the 9797 - I do remember being highly surprised to find the signal line (C2) grounded to chassis - that flat won't work when you have a keyer that grounds the loop for mark (like some old tube keyers). And sparks gesparken depending on your loop topology. If your characters are OK from the keyboard, then yes I'd suspect these possibles for the LXD1. dirty/binding sensing fingers2. misadjusted transmitter - correct with the eccentric adjustment3. dirt/oil on contacts inside4. bad filter cap inside Good Luck and Have FunNick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com 
On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 10:34 PM John Hargett <kg5ylg at austin.rr.com> wrote:Getting thru my 28ASR that I got some time back.?  Have it receiving ITTY now, able to also punch tape, as well as run tape.?  Have a couple of questions that I am sure someone out there has more knowledge than I?  ( that doesnt take too much) about these machines.?  Two items I am looking at are:
1)?  The LESU, which is a Western Union 9797 wiring cabinet, has the positive side of the loop supply tied to ground @?  C-2 and the negative floating.?  What is the design behind this??  I have looked at other LESU wiring diagrams and do not see them showing this. Would it be detrimental to put the neg at ground potential?
 
2) When I run tape on the LXD, it comes out all random and missing CR and LF .?  Ran a tape RYRYRY?  and get not RYRYRY on print.?  Does not LF or CR at correct times.?  Tape was preceded by multiple LF and CR then LTRS, Ran 40 characters RY, followed by CR,CR,CR,LF,LF, then 40 more RY followed by CR, CR, CR, LF, LF, then 40 more RY followed by CR, CR, CR, LF, LF.?  What i got on type was?  a couple of?  over types at the start, then KCBSCCBSCCBSCCBECCBECCBSCCBER then it did a single LF and continued with the same basic characters, then did a CR and same basic characters.?  
Is this a timing issue with the LXD signal generator? 
 
Dont know if it will come thru, but a copy of the 9797 wiring diagram is attached.
 
Thanks in advance
John
KG5YLG

Virus-free. www.avg.com______________________________________________________________
 GreenKeys mailing list
 Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
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 >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
 >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
 >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
 >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
 
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From w9ddd at tapr.org  Sun Feb 14 11:16:54 2021
From: w9ddd at tapr.org (John, W9DDD)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2021 10:16:54 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] WU 28ASR WIRING
In-Reply-To: <CAB55hNe1_K60xGtE6U3hxXaGAjJ0RxgcD3nk6OA-Y82qVYgzBg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <081d29de-17b5-2227-65a8-80a98d39e489@austin.rr.com>
	<CAB55hNe1_K60xGtE6U3hxXaGAjJ0RxgcD3nk6OA-Y82qVYgzBg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <619e3ceb-b098-4685-3f15-f950c91e4b5a@tapr.org>

I notice that the ground system on that drawing appears to have been 
penciled in.  But if you scan through the drawing set 
http://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/tty/wu-dwg-01.pdf you'll see many 
drawing with the terminal 2 grounded. They even did it on the Taletype 
LESU they used in some applications.

I gotta go back and check my KSR with the 9100 wiring cabinet.  At the 
time I was testing it, I was using an old TU with polar relay output. 
I'd better do some investigating before I try driving it with the TU-170.

The 9100 wiring cabinet had been butchered pretty badly before I got it. 
  So who knows.  If I find enough parts, it may get a LESU transplant.


John, W9DDD

On 2/14/2021 8:40 AM, Nick England wrote:
> As I dimly recall, John was correct about + ground for battery systems.
> However I have no idea why WU grounded both the signal line and internal 
> supply + at C2. Or why they tied the internal supply to the signal line 
> at all. IIRC always Teletype isolated the internal supply from the 
> signal line.
> 
> My first ASR was a WU one with the 9797 - I do remember being highly 
> surprised to find the signal line (C2) grounded to chassis - that flat 
> won't work when you have a keyer that grounds the loop for mark (like 
> some old tube keyers). And sparks gesparken depending on your loop topology.
> 
> If your characters are OK from the keyboard, then yes I'd suspect these 
> possibles for the LXD
> 1. dirty/binding sensing fingers
> 2. misadjusted transmitter - correct with the eccentric adjustment
> 3. dirt/oil on contacts inside
> 4. bad filter cap inside
> 
> Good Luck and Have Fun
> Nick England K4NYW
> www.navy-radio.com <http://www.navy-radio.com>
> 
> 
> On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 10:34 PM John Hargett <kg5ylg at austin.rr.com 
> <mailto:kg5ylg at austin.rr.com>> wrote:
> 
>     Getting thru my 28ASR that I got some time back.? Have it receiving
>     ITTY now, able to also punch tape, as well as run tape. Have a
>     couple of questions that I am sure someone out there has more
>     knowledge than I? ( that doesnt take too much) about these
>     machines.? Two items I am looking at are:
> 
>     1)? The LESU, which is a Western Union 9797 wiring cabinet, has the
>     positive side of the loop supply tied to ground @? C-2 and the
>     negative floating.? What is the design behind this?? I have looked
>     at other LESU wiring diagrams and do not see them showing this.
>     Would it be detrimental to put the neg at ground potential?
> 
> 
>     2) When I run tape on the LXD, it comes out all random and missing
>     CR and LF .? Ran a tape RYRYRY? and get not RYRYRY on print.? Does
>     not LF or CR at correct times.? Tape was preceded by multiple LF and
>     CR then LTRS, Ran 40 characters RY, followed by CR,CR,CR,LF,LF, then
>     40 more RY followed by CR, CR, CR, LF, LF, then 40 more RY followed
>     by CR, CR, CR, LF, LF.? What i got on type was? a couple of? over
>     types at the start, then KCBSCCBSCCBSCCBECCBECCBSCCBER then it did a
>     single LF and continued with the same basic characters, then did a
>     CR and same basic characters.
> 
>     Is this a timing issue with the LXD signal generator?
> 
> 
>     Dont know if it will come thru, but a copy of the 9797 wiring
>     diagram is attached.
> 
> 
>     Thanks in advance
> 
>     John
> 
>     KG5YLG
> 
> 
>     <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
>     	Virus-free. www.avg.com
>     <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
> 
> 
>     <#m_2095076315609712272_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>     ______________________________________________________________
>     GreenKeys mailing list
>     Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>     Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>     Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>     <mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net>
> 
>      >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>     https://teletype.net/gksearch
>      >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>     http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>      >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>     http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>      >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>     http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> 
>     This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>     Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>     Message delivered to navy.radio at gmail.com <mailto:navy.radio at gmail.com>
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> 
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to w9ddd at tapr.org
> 

From ve3gem at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 14:25:58 2021
From: ve3gem at gmail.com (Keith Densmore)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 14:25:58 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] IRL FSK 1000 Demod
Message-ID: <CAC1vJYCUtH=mp5VB9_S8VkB7J4EDTi9m7S1R9MCKhShuKNuMMw@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings All,
Found a really nice condition IRL FSK 1000 demodulator. Personally, I have
never seen one before. An online search found a manual for it at a site
called Lost Manuals. However, they insist on downloading an extension
search engine before they give access to the manual. Being wary of that,
might anyone have a PDF copy of the demodulator they would be willing to
share?

Thanks,
Keith ve3ts
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From vk2bea at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 18:53:07 2021
From: vk2bea at gmail.com (Michael Katzmann)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 18:53:07 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] IRL FSK 1000 Demod
In-Reply-To: <CAC1vJYCUtH=mp5VB9_S8VkB7J4EDTi9m7S1R9MCKhShuKNuMMw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAC1vJYCUtH=mp5VB9_S8VkB7J4EDTi9m7S1R9MCKhShuKNuMMw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMyt5ORwA4rass=J0woNXRu+-PMOggsXdBgSN=ftFRd46dsx=g@mail.gmail.com>

There is a service manual on-line here (direct download)...
https://www.opweb.de/english/company/IRL/downloads/IRL--FSK-1000--service--ID12746.pdf

Michael

On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 2:29 PM Keith Densmore <ve3gem at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Greetings All,
> Found a really nice condition IRL FSK 1000 demodulator. Personally, I have never seen one before. An online search found a manual for it at a site called Lost Manuals. However, they insist on downloading an extension search engine before they give access to the manual. Being wary of that, might anyone have a PDF copy of the demodulator they would be willing to share?
>
> Thanks,
> Keith ve3ts
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to vk2bea at gmail.com

From navy.radio at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 21:11:07 2021
From: navy.radio at gmail.com (Nick England)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 21:11:07 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Colossus FSK challenge
Message-ID: <CAB55hNeu-miwzxsmJ99E47TFwMXqz4qrGa0uSDW=riGyvTWxoQ@mail.gmail.com>

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QcaHpvznC7g

I just came across this. Can anyone print the AFSK at the beginning of this
video? It may be on-off keying.
-- 
Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com
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From navy.radio at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 14:41:51 2021
From: navy.radio at gmail.com (Nick England)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 14:41:51 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] 1920 Film - Washington Navy Radio
Message-ID: <CAB55hNdVdy4-AFyJDRY2y6Msacj+CWdJ-1-m9B+Q__fyLxCOnw@mail.gmail.com>

 https://digital.tcl.sc.edu/digital/collection/MVTN/id/2633/rec/1
adjusting receiver
receiving on inked paper tape
punching wheatstone tape for transmission (Kleinschmidt Perforator)
receiving antenna at Washington Navy Yard?

Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com
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From navy.radio at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 15:20:31 2021
From: navy.radio at gmail.com (Nick England)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 15:20:31 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] 1959 - IBM 1903 High-Speed Paper Tape Reader
Message-ID: <CAB55hNd87hKtZ06NKU+3QctQELTwx3_2JApnZHj5Rk1JUiZ-hA@mail.gmail.com>

Who knew? Watch the movie at
https://catalog.archives.gov/id/85204

Also misc M28 scenes
Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com
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From erik at bruchez.org  Tue Feb 16 15:43:10 2021
From: erik at bruchez.org (Erik Bruchez)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 12:43:10 -0800
Subject: [GreenKeys] rubber restorer
In-Reply-To: <04e301d6fe5f$fb3a2b90$f1ae82b0$@toebes.com>
References: <838ZBHuwU2816Set.1612815826@web07.cms.usa.net>
	<2092791653.3150664.1612817839686@mail.yahoo.com>
	<04e301d6fe5f$fb3a2b90$f1ae82b0$@toebes.com>
Message-ID: <CAAc0PEXz5YWsuCfL6BU4LTpjOoPMMUX86e3JeetFgq-Q1xJWLA@mail.gmail.com>

The price for typewriter platens is typically around $100 with shipping
back to you, less if you send a bunch of platens at the same time. You can
email Peter and ask for a quote, he is very responsive.

-Erik

On Mon, Feb 8, 2021 at 1:19 PM <john at toebes.com> wrote:

> Keith,
>
>   Would you care to share the ballpark price they charged for restoring a
> platen?
>
>
>
>   ? John Toebes
>
>
>
> *From:* greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net <
> greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net> *On Behalf Of *Keith Lueck
> *Sent:* Monday, February 8, 2021 3:57 PM
> *To:* WAYNE <teletypeparts at comcast.net>; Paul Heller <paul0926 at comcast.net>;
> GREENKEYS BULLETIN BOARD <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>; Fred Moore <
> fred_moore at usa.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [GreenKeys] rubber restorer
>
>
>
> I had JJ Short Associates restore the platen of my 15.  They did a fine
> job.  I think extracting the 15 platen would be a lot easier than getting
> one out of my 33...
>
>
>
> Custom Molded Rubber and Roller Manufacturer - Baler Rubber Rollers,
> Compression Molding, Custom Mixing Buna N, Custom Mixing Butyl, Custom
> Mixing EPDM, Custom Mixing Natural Rubber, Custom Mixing Neoprene, Custom
> Mixing Silicone, Custom Mixing Ureth <https://www.jjshort.com/index.php>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Custom Molded Rubber and Roller Manufacturer - Baler Rubber Rollers, Com...
>
> J.J. Short Associates, Inc. is a Custom Molded Rubber and Roller
> Manufacturer that can help you with Custom Mold...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Monday, February 8, 2021, 02:24:04 PM CST, Fred Moore <
> fred_moore at usa.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Consider having the platen remade entirely by someone like Terry's Rubber
>
> Rollers in Michigan.  email him first to make sure he can re-manufacture
>
> something of this width. -Fred
>
>
>
> ------ Original Message ------
>
> Received: Mon, 08 Feb 2021 05:59:24 PM GMT
>
> From: WAYNE <teletypeparts at comcast.net>
>
> To: Paul Heller <paul0926 at comcast.net>,    GREENKEYS BULLETIN BOARD
>
> <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
>
> Subject: [Spam] [GreenKeys] rubber restorer
>
>
>
>     Hey, after some searching found a source for the Tech Spray rubber
>
> cleaner/rejuvenator.  Same as the bottle I have.  $10.32.
>
>
>
>     Mouser.com
>
>     Mouser Part #
>
> 577-1612-2SQ
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
>
> GreenKeys mailing list
>
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
>
> GreenKeys mailing list
>
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
>
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
>
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> Message delivered to kwlueck at swbell.net
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to erik at bruchez.org
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From 1oldlens1 at ix.netcom.com  Tue Feb 16 15:47:21 2021
From: 1oldlens1 at ix.netcom.com (Richard Knoppow)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 12:47:21 -0800
Subject: [GreenKeys] 1920 Film - Washington Navy Radio
In-Reply-To: <CAB55hNdVdy4-AFyJDRY2y6Msacj+CWdJ-1-m9B+Q__fyLxCOnw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB55hNdVdy4-AFyJDRY2y6Msacj+CWdJ-1-m9B+Q__fyLxCOnw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <054f5857-20a6-808a-c03e-286d017036d5@ix.netcom.com>

 ?? Fascinating. Too bad there is not a setting to run it at 
silent speed.
 ?? At Fox Television I remember we had a project of transferring 
Movietone News to digital tape. Fox had the complete archives of 
Movietone News. It was one of the two largest newsreels (the 
other was the Paramount News). Most of the stuff was shot with 
sound, often just natural sound. Fox did all sorts of projects to 
record whatever what going on. I don't think anyone in Fox 
management really had any appreciation of what they had. The 
outtakes are often more interesting than the scenes used in the 
newsreel releases.
 ?? Many do not realize that Fox Film was a pioneer in sound 
recording. Fox formed a partnership with Theodore Case, to form 
Fox-Case Movietone.? It was an early pioneer of sound on film, as 
opposed to the sound on disc used by Warner Brothers/Western 
Electric Vitaphone. Fox called System Movietone. It made use of a 
glow tube called an Aeolite (not A E O lite as it is sometimes 
called). They were having considerable success until Western 
Electric decided they were too much competition and pulled their 
patent licenses. Fox then had to buy a Western Electric license 
and goodby Movietone although the trade name remained.
 ??? It is a matter of luck and happenstance that the WE/Warner 
project became successful when it did. Sound on film is really a 
better method and was the one eventually adopted by the industry.
 ?? At its height Movietone News released three editions a week, 
a lot of work. Some, of course was staged but mostly what was 
filmed was real. A fair amount of the outtakes are on You Tube.

On 2/16/2021 11:41 AM, Nick England wrote:
> https://digital.tcl.sc.edu/digital/collection/MVTN/id/2633/rec/1 
> <https://digital.tcl.sc.edu/digital/collection/MVTN/id/2633/rec/1>
> adjusting receiver
> receiving on inked paper tape
> punching wheatstone tape for transmission (Kleinschmidt Perforator)
> receiving antenna at Washington Navy Yard?
>
> Nick England K4NYW
> www.navy-radio.com <http://www.navy-radio.com>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to 1oldlens1 at ix.netcom.com

-- 
Richard Knoppow
1oldlens1 at ix.netcom.com
WB6KBL


From dave at horsfall.org  Tue Feb 16 16:19:32 2021
From: dave at horsfall.org (Dave Horsfall)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2021 08:19:32 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [GreenKeys] 1920 Film - Washington Navy Radio
In-Reply-To: <054f5857-20a6-808a-c03e-286d017036d5@ix.netcom.com>
References: <CAB55hNdVdy4-AFyJDRY2y6Msacj+CWdJ-1-m9B+Q__fyLxCOnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<054f5857-20a6-808a-c03e-286d017036d5@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2102170815440.70858@aneurin.horsfall.org>

On Tue, 16 Feb 2021, Richard Knoppow wrote:

> Fascinating. Too bad there is not a setting to run it at silent speed.

Odd; I don't get any audio on my MacBook even with everything wound up to 
11...

-- Dave

From dave at horsfall.org  Tue Feb 16 17:13:06 2021
From: dave at horsfall.org (Dave Horsfall)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2021 09:13:06 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [GreenKeys] 1959 - IBM 1903 High-Speed Paper Tape Reader
In-Reply-To: <CAB55hNd87hKtZ06NKU+3QctQELTwx3_2JApnZHj5Rk1JUiZ-hA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB55hNd87hKtZ06NKU+3QctQELTwx3_2JApnZHj5Rk1JUiZ-hA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2102170909020.70858@aneurin.horsfall.org>

On Tue, 16 Feb 2021, Nick England wrote:

> Who knew? Watch the movie at
> https://catalog.archives.gov/id/85204

Fascinating!

Reminds me of my time as a 360 operator, when some luser sticky-taped the 
end of the tape to the spool.

Zzzip...  Rrrip...

-- Dave

From harold at w6iwi.org  Mon Feb 15 22:29:24 2021
From: harold at w6iwi.org (Harold Hallikainen)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 19:29:24 -0800
Subject: [GreenKeys] Teletype Manuals Available - Denver CO
Message-ID: <265f69a56057b7c884a15df71eedc97d.squirrel@mai.hallikainen.org>


The manuals in the images at https://w6iwi.org/tmp/ are available in
Denver. They are being offered to the Telecom History Group who asked if I
wanted them. Can we save them from the dumpster?

Harold
https://w6iwi.org


From harold at w6iwi.org  Sun Feb 14 22:03:26 2021
From: harold at w6iwi.org (Harold Hallikainen)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2021 19:03:26 -0800
Subject: [GreenKeys] Teletype Manuals Available - Denver CO
Message-ID: <c5e8bbf9c8f295fe557826732fd76d73.squirrel@mai.hallikainen.org>



The manuals in the images at https://w6iwi.org/tmp/ are available in
Denver. They are being offered to the Telecom History Group who asked if I
wanted them. Can we save them from the dumpster?

Harold


-- 
FCC Rules Updated Daily at http://www.hallikainen.com
Not sent from an iPhone.



-- 
http://w6iwi.org

From elb at kb8ojh.net  Tue Feb 16 17:51:08 2021
From: elb at kb8ojh.net (Ethan Blanton)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 17:51:08 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Teletype Manuals Available - Denver CO
In-Reply-To: <265f69a56057b7c884a15df71eedc97d.squirrel@mai.hallikainen.org>
References: <265f69a56057b7c884a15df71eedc97d.squirrel@mai.hallikainen.org>
Message-ID: <20210216225108.GA16052@mail.kb8ojh.net>

Harold Hallikainen wrote:
> The manuals in the images at https://w6iwi.org/tmp/ are available in
> Denver. They are being offered to the Telecom History Group who asked if I
> wanted them. Can we save them from the dumpster?

I no one is available in the Denver area, those manuals can be shipped
very cheaply via USPS media mail.  I have paid for media mail
shipments to save manuals in the past, if the sender is willing to box
the package up and take it to the post office and notify me of the
price upon shipping.  I am also willing to pre-pay a FedEx package
label, if the sender can box the manuals and get a (good)
approximation of the weight and package size.  (This is considerably
more expensive, but the sender doesn't have to front the postage.)

Ethan

From navy.radio at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 18:08:54 2021
From: navy.radio at gmail.com (Nick England)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 18:08:54 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Teletype Manuals Available - Denver CO
In-Reply-To: <265f69a56057b7c884a15df71eedc97d.squirrel@mai.hallikainen.org>
References: <265f69a56057b7c884a15df71eedc97d.squirrel@mai.hallikainen.org>
Message-ID: <CAB55hNcZN2mYgNb6H0kHhgdQX1ooEyP1L=wNvwPLrVn=t4wC9Q@mail.gmail.com>

I?ll be happy to scan and post them and then pass along to the next owner.
Nick

On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 5:43 PM Harold Hallikainen <harold at w6iwi.org> wrote:

>
> The manuals in the images at https://w6iwi.org/tmp/ are available in
> Denver. They are being offered to the Telecom History Group who asked if I
> wanted them. Can we save them from the dumpster?
>
> Harold
> https://w6iwi.org
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to navy.radio at gmail.com
>
-- 
Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com
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From harold at w6iwi.org  Tue Feb 16 18:32:57 2021
From: harold at w6iwi.org (Harold Hallikainen)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 15:32:57 -0800
Subject: [GreenKeys] Teletype Manuals Available - Denver CO
In-Reply-To: <CAB55hNcZN2mYgNb6H0kHhgdQX1ooEyP1L=wNvwPLrVn=t4wC9Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <265f69a56057b7c884a15df71eedc97d.squirrel@mai.hallikainen.org>
	<CAB55hNcZN2mYgNb6H0kHhgdQX1ooEyP1L=wNvwPLrVn=t4wC9Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <446bb1f9f537addc59e7a4cc2051be94.squirrel@mai.hallikainen.org>

Great! I'll get them and send them to you, then you can send them to
"Ethan Blanton" <elb at kb8ojh.net>


Harold

> I???ll be happy to scan and post them and then pass along to the next
> owner.
> Nick
>
> On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 5:43 PM Harold Hallikainen <harold at w6iwi.org>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> The manuals in the images at https://w6iwi.org/tmp/ are available in
>> Denver. They are being offered to the Telecom History Group who asked if
>> I
>> wanted them. Can we save them from the dumpster?
>>
>> Harold
>> https://w6iwi.org
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> GreenKeys mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>
>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to navy.radio at gmail.com
>>
> --
> Nick England K4NYW
> www.navy-radio.com
>


-- 
http://w6iwi.org

From 1oldlens1 at ix.netcom.com  Tue Feb 16 18:43:20 2021
From: 1oldlens1 at ix.netcom.com (Richard Knoppow)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 15:43:20 -0800
Subject: [GreenKeys] 1920 Film - Washington Navy Radio
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2102170815440.70858@aneurin.horsfall.org>
References: <CAB55hNdVdy4-AFyJDRY2y6Msacj+CWdJ-1-m9B+Q__fyLxCOnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<054f5857-20a6-808a-c03e-286d017036d5@ix.netcom.com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2102170815440.70858@aneurin.horsfall.org>
Message-ID: <87b57f37-ed7d-3dc5-4609-bcbaec36d159@ix.netcom.com>

 ?? The film was shot at silent speed, i.e. 16 frames per second. 
Sound speed is 24 FPS and the film appears to have been run at 
that speed. This is unusual for Movietone stuff since it was all 
sound film. The notes on the site say this is full frame, silent 
speed. Full frame is also somewhat unusual because Fox cropped 
the frame to make room for the sound track. The old Movietone 
stuff has a practically square frame. Eventually, a further 
cropping, at top and bottom were adopted to restore the 1:33:1 
aspect ratio. Movies shot with the old full frame have run from 
sprocke hole line to sprocket hole line with very narrow borders 
between frames.
 ?? There is no sound, this is MOS (old motion picture slang for 
no sound, no one knows what it originally stood for).

On 2/16/2021 1:19 PM, Dave Horsfall wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Feb 2021, Richard Knoppow wrote:
>
>> Fascinating. Too bad there is not a setting to run it at 
>> silent speed.
>
> Odd; I don't get any audio on my MacBook even with everything 
> wound up to 11...
>
> -- Dave
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: 
>>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: 
>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: 
>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: 
>>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: 
> http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to 1oldlens1 at ix.netcom.com

-- 
Richard Knoppow
1oldlens1 at ix.netcom.com
WB6KBL


From dave at horsfall.org  Tue Feb 16 19:52:20 2021
From: dave at horsfall.org (Dave Horsfall)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2021 11:52:20 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [GreenKeys] 1920 Film - Washington Navy Radio
In-Reply-To: <87b57f37-ed7d-3dc5-4609-bcbaec36d159@ix.netcom.com>
References: <CAB55hNdVdy4-AFyJDRY2y6Msacj+CWdJ-1-m9B+Q__fyLxCOnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<054f5857-20a6-808a-c03e-286d017036d5@ix.netcom.com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2102170815440.70858@aneurin.horsfall.org>
	<87b57f37-ed7d-3dc5-4609-bcbaec36d159@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2102171149270.70858@aneurin.horsfall.org>

On Tue, 16 Feb 2021, Richard Knoppow wrote:

> The film was shot at silent speed, i.e. 16 frames per second. Sound 
> speed is 24 FPS and the film appears to have been run at that speed. 
> [...]

Oops; my mistake...  I'm not quite old enough to remember the silent 
movies, but I do enjoying seeing them played at 24fps with everyone 
running around like mad :-)

-- Dave VK2KFU

From elb at kb8ojh.net  Wed Feb 17 07:41:34 2021
From: elb at kb8ojh.net (Ethan Blanton)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2021 07:41:34 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Teletype Manuals Available - Denver CO
In-Reply-To: <446bb1f9f537addc59e7a4cc2051be94.squirrel@mai.hallikainen.org>
References: <265f69a56057b7c884a15df71eedc97d.squirrel@mai.hallikainen.org>
	<CAB55hNcZN2mYgNb6H0kHhgdQX1ooEyP1L=wNvwPLrVn=t4wC9Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<446bb1f9f537addc59e7a4cc2051be94.squirrel@mai.hallikainen.org>
Message-ID: <20210217124134.GA10413@mail.kb8ojh.net>

Harold Hallikainen wrote:
> Great! I'll get them and send them to you, then you can send them to
> "Ethan Blanton" <elb at kb8ojh.net>

Nick is absolutely the right man for the first stop!

My goal is rescue and preservation, not necessarily possession; if
Nick (or someone else) wants to hang on to them long term, that's
certainly OK with me.  If not, I'm happy to put a roof over these
documents.  (I have some other Teletype manuals that will keep them
company.)

Ethan

From highpwr at bellsouth.net  Wed Feb 17 17:57:12 2021
From: highpwr at bellsouth.net (highpwr at bellsouth.net)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2021 17:57:12 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Model 33s & 35s
References: <017701d70580$3b631160$b2293420$.ref@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <017701d70580$3b631160$b2293420$@bellsouth.net>

No longer Available, on their way to Scotland.

Steve
KM4V


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From dave.g4ugm at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 16:25:03 2021
From: dave.g4ugm at gmail.com (dave.g4ugm at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2021 21:25:03 -0000
Subject: [GreenKeys] Digitex D110 RTTY/ASCII Terminal
Message-ID: <1ca201d7063c$85efd210$91cf7630$@gmail.com>

Folks,

Does any one have a manual for a DIGITEX D110 RTTY/ASCII terminal? I have
one but it produces no video output. I am sure it used to when I received
it.

Dave

G4UGM

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From 1oldlens1 at ix.netcom.com  Thu Feb 18 19:43:48 2021
From: 1oldlens1 at ix.netcom.com (Richard Knoppow)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2021 16:43:48 -0800
Subject: [GreenKeys] 1920 Film - Washington Navy Radio
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2102171149270.70858@aneurin.horsfall.org>
References: <CAB55hNdVdy4-AFyJDRY2y6Msacj+CWdJ-1-m9B+Q__fyLxCOnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<054f5857-20a6-808a-c03e-286d017036d5@ix.netcom.com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2102170815440.70858@aneurin.horsfall.org>
	<87b57f37-ed7d-3dc5-4609-bcbaec36d159@ix.netcom.com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2102171149270.70858@aneurin.horsfall.org>
Message-ID: <a0c8ef6c-648e-2625-65a3-5fc27ba49875@ix.netcom.com>

 ?? I'm not old enough to remember silent movies in the theater 
but certainly home movies were shot at silent speed, until maybe 
the 1960s when some were shot at 18 FPS.
 ?? 16 FPS dates to Edison who established the standard speed, 
one foot per second and 16 frames per foot.
 ?? I do NOT like seeing silent pictures run at sound speed. That 
running around you find amusing ruins the dramatic content. 
Compare sometimes. Movies were a well developed art (no pun 
intended) by the time sound displaced silent pictures. There are 
a fair number of good silent films on You Tube. You can run them 
at nearly the correct speed. Listen in silence because the 
contemporary music for most of them is just awful.
 ?? I managed to see many silent films from original prints or 
good reprints with music supplied, sometimes, by the classic 
organists who played for them originally such as Chauncy Haines? 
and Ann Leaf. Many of the silent picture organists worked later 
in radio. People like Lew White, who played for "Inner Sanctum". 
I AM old enough to remember radio before TV destroyed it. I don't 
think there was ever much in OZ but I could be wrong.


On 2/16/2021 4:52 PM, Dave Horsfall wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Feb 2021, Richard Knoppow wrote:
>
>> The film was shot at silent speed, i.e. 16 frames per second. 
>> Sound speed is 24 FPS and the film appears to have been run at 
>> that speed. [...]
>
> Oops; my mistake...? I'm not quite old enough to remember the 
> silent movies, but I do enjoying seeing them played at 24fps 
> with everyone running around like mad :-)
>
> -- Dave VK2KFU

-- 
Richard Knoppow
1oldlens1 at ix.netcom.com
WB6KBL


From navy.radio at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 08:16:23 2021
From: navy.radio at gmail.com (Nick England)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2021 08:16:23 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Colossus FSK challenge
In-Reply-To: <CAB55hNeu-miwzxsmJ99E47TFwMXqz4qrGa0uSDW=riGyvTWxoQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB55hNeu-miwzxsmJ99E47TFwMXqz4qrGa0uSDW=riGyvTWxoQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB55hNcEOnEhzkYzOrduC32kQurRnTiNK3CVTTWS5wjYH=Hx5A@mail.gmail.com>

Russ WA3FRP was the first to identify the signals as 450 shift, 50 baud
from a German weather station. I think it is great that these folks at
Bletchley Park are STILL intercepting German RTTY with their original WW2
RCA AR-88 receivers! There are a number of fascinating videos on YouTube
about Bletchley Park, German encrypted RTTY (Tunny), and Colossus. If you
ever have a chance to visit, it is a truly wonderful experience.

Thanks to Russ, Daniel K6YIC, and Milt AD5XD for figuring out the signals.

And I got confirmation from the folks at Bletchley Park:
------------------------------
The National Museum of Computing, home of the Colossus rebuild, use a live
German weather beacon transmission in the Tunny gallery as an example of
radio teletype transmission.
When reception is particularly poor, we have a box with a two way switch
with two-tone teleprinter at one setting and morse at the other, for
demonstration to the visitors.
--------------------------------------
Cheers,
Nick

On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 9:11 PM Nick England <navy.radio at gmail.com> wrote:

> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QcaHpvznC7g
>
> I just came across this. Can anyone print the AFSK at the beginning of
> this video? It may be on-off keying.
> --
> Nick England K4NYW
> www.navy-radio.com
>
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From alffisher2 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 10:31:09 2021
From: alffisher2 at gmail.com (Alf Fisher)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2021 15:31:09 +0000
Subject: [GreenKeys] Request Received - Research for TV Series
In-Reply-To: <6449d614-2b3c-8505-7d29-cd8773ecc8e8@blunham.com>
References: <6449d614-2b3c-8505-7d29-cd8773ecc8e8@blunham.com>
Message-ID: <16ef3326-6bb1-46f7-02c1-a8d4c608ee4c@gmail.com>

Hello GKers,

I've been asked by the props guy from a TV company if there is anyone in 
UK who has one of these 2 x BD100 switchboards available for rent/hire.

73,
Alf G3WSD













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From dave at horsfall.org  Fri Feb 19 16:18:41 2021
From: dave at horsfall.org (Dave Horsfall)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2021 08:18:41 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [GreenKeys] Request Received - Research for TV Series
In-Reply-To: <16ef3326-6bb1-46f7-02c1-a8d4c608ee4c@gmail.com>
References: <6449d614-2b3c-8505-7d29-cd8773ecc8e8@blunham.com>
	<16ef3326-6bb1-46f7-02c1-a8d4c608ee4c@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2102200815060.70858@aneurin.horsfall.org>

On Fri, 19 Feb 2021, Alf Fisher wrote:

> I've been asked by the props guy from a TV company if there is anyone in 
> UK who has one of these 2 x BD100 switchboards available for rent/hire.

If there is, follow the usual rules i.e. equipment must be accompanied by 
a caretaker at all times at their cost etc; TV companies will treat it 
just like any other prop i.e. disposable.

-- Dave VK2KFU

From dave at horsfall.org  Sat Feb 20 02:42:08 2021
From: dave at horsfall.org (Dave Horsfall)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2021 18:42:08 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [GreenKeys] Soviet Selectric typewriter bug/keylogger......
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2102201838310.70858@aneurin.horsfall.org>

Somewhat RTTY related (well, a keyboard was involved)...

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2021 03:01:44 +0000

Hi all,

I vaguely remember someone(amdrewm?) on this list posting about Operation Gunman some time ago.

Gunman was the US operation to remove and replace typewrites and similar equipment(11 tons worth) from US embassies after the French had alerted them to a Soviet-made implant in a teleprinter.  The implant picked up the movements of the "golf-ball" in the typewriter, transmitted them and the typewriter output was then reconstructed.

Anyways - this page from the Crypto Museum has piccies of one of the implants that had been hidden inside a support bar inside the typewriter(apparently 5 different versions were found) and a rundown on how it worked:

https://www.cryptomuseum.com/covert/bugs/selectric/index.htm
Selectric bug - Cryptomuseum<https://www.cryptomuseum.com/covert/bugs/selectric/index.htm>
The Selectric Bug can be seen as one of the world's first keystroke loggers.It was the first known attack by the Soviets on a plaintext device instead of a cipher machine.Modern variants of such loggers exist as software (in the same way as a computer virus) and hardware, in the latter case commonly implemented as a small device that is installed between a computer and the keyboard.
www.cryptomuseum.com
Cheers!

-- Dave VK2KFU

From paul0926 at comcast.net  Sat Feb 20 06:18:14 2021
From: paul0926 at comcast.net (Paul Heller)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2021 04:18:14 -0700
Subject: [GreenKeys] Soviet Selectric typewriter bug/keylogger......
Message-ID: <2BE22332-8F22-45D4-B9C4-B7E55E9F89FA@comcast.net>

On May 6 2020 I posted:

I?ll go on a limb and state nn topic because there are teleprinters in it at one point (small but important role). Also plenty of electronics, RF and references to amateur radio.

The book is ?The Spy In Moscow Station? by Eric Haseltine. True story.  If you like spy thrillers or technical material or US government agency speak, this is a book for you.

Paul
W2TTY

> On Feb 20, 2021, at 12:43 AM, Dave Horsfall <dave at horsfall.org> wrote:
> ?Somewhat RTTY related (well, a keyboard was involved)...
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2021 03:01:44 +0000
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I vaguely remember someone(amdrewm?) on this list posting about Operation Gunman some time ago.
> 
> Gunman was the US operation to remove and replace typewrites and similar equipment(11 tons worth) from US embassies after the French had alerted them to a Soviet-made implant in a teleprinter.  The implant picked up the movements of the "golf-ball" in the typewriter, transmitted them and the typewriter output was then reconstructed.
> 
> Anyways - this page from the Crypto Museum has piccies of one of the implants that had been hidden inside a support bar inside the typewriter(apparently 5 different versions were found) and a rundown on how it worked:
> 
> https://www.cryptomuseum.com/covert/bugs/selectric/index.htm
> Selectric bug - Cryptomuseum<https://www.cryptomuseum.com/covert/bugs/selectric/index.htm>
> The Selectric Bug can be seen as one of the world's first keystroke loggers.It was the first known attack by the Soviets on a plaintext device instead of a cipher machine.Modern variants of such loggers exist as software (in the same way as a computer virus) and hardware, in the latter case commonly implemented as a small device that is installed between a computer and the keyboard.
> www.cryptomuseum.com
> Cheers!
> 
> -- Dave VK2KFU
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> 
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to paul0926 at comcast.net


From dave.g4ugm at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 07:53:39 2021
From: dave.g4ugm at gmail.com (dave.g4ugm at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2021 12:53:39 -0000
Subject: [GreenKeys] Digitex D110 RTTY/ASCII Terminal
Message-ID: <264201d70787$694296b0$3bc7c410$@gmail.com>

Folks,

Does any one have a manual for a DIGITEX D110 RTTY/ASCII terminal? I have
one but it produces no video output. I am sure it used to when I received
it.

Dave

G4UGM

 

Did this fail moderation? I know its not mechanical, but the list
description says:-

 

* Computer Interfacing

* Electrical, Electronic, Mechanical

* Anything Else TTY/RTTY Related

 

 

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From wcwuttke at att.net  Sat Feb 20 21:22:11 2021
From: wcwuttke at att.net (William Wuttke)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2021 18:22:11 -0800
Subject: [GreenKeys] Teletype Tomfoolery
References: <7F67E1A3-616A-4880-A1BF-498695EDAE4E.ref@att.net>
Message-ID: <7F67E1A3-616A-4880-A1BF-498695EDAE4E@att.net>

Here?s a short video demonstrating SMS to teletype (and RTTY) integration.
As a bonus, it enables **Speech-to-Teletype**.

A detailed video of these features will follow.

Enjoy!

https://youtu.be/8r0_zBKezcQ <https://youtu.be/8r0_zBKezcQ>

Bill
KE3BK
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From steve.n4tty at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 07:20:42 2021
From: steve.n4tty at gmail.com (Steve Garrison)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2021 07:20:42 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Teletype Tomfoolery
In-Reply-To: <7F67E1A3-616A-4880-A1BF-498695EDAE4E@att.net>
References: <7F67E1A3-616A-4880-A1BF-498695EDAE4E.ref@att.net>
	<7F67E1A3-616A-4880-A1BF-498695EDAE4E@att.net>
Message-ID: <884775C0-21DD-45AE-A6CD-3745418BB27D@gmail.com>

Very much like what John Nagle has been doing for years.  And I've been using John's software for years doing demonstrations for old and young alike at science fairs, hamfests, techfests, and the like.

Steve G./N4TTY
Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 20, 2021, at 9:22 PM, William Wuttke <wcwuttke at att.net> wrote:
> 
> Here?s a short video demonstrating SMS to teletype (and RTTY) integration.
> As a bonus, it enables **Speech-to-Teletype**.
> 
> A detailed video of these features will follow.
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
> https://youtu.be/8r0_zBKezcQ
> 
> Bill
> KE3BK
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> 
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to steve.n4tty at gmail.com
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From harold at w6iwi.org  Sun Feb 21 12:10:07 2021
From: harold at w6iwi.org (Harold Hallikainen)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2021 09:10:07 -0800
Subject: [GreenKeys] Teletype Tomfoolery
In-Reply-To: <7F67E1A3-616A-4880-A1BF-498695EDAE4E@att.net>
References: <7F67E1A3-616A-4880-A1BF-498695EDAE4E.ref@att.net>
	<7F67E1A3-616A-4880-A1BF-498695EDAE4E@att.net>
Message-ID: <e04f00a82ab47474d99b9c5a1c890108.squirrel@mai.hallikainen.org>


> Here???s a short video demonstrating SMS to teletype (and RTTY)
> integration.
> As a bonus, it enables **Speech-to-Teletype**.
>
> A detailed video of these features will follow.
>
> Enjoy!
>
> https://youtu.be/8r0_zBKezcQ <https://youtu.be/8r0_zBKezcQ>
>
> Bill
> KE3BK______________________________________________________________

Very nice! My name (or call) in genuine print!

By the way, Louise and I are in the process of moving from Arvada CO to
Tucson AZ. I packed up the Teletypes yesterday. The HF antennas come down
on Tuesday. For the next month or two, my only HF will be the Icom 7100 in
the car ( https://w6iwi.org/mobile/ ).

Harold
https://w6iwi.org




-- 
FCC Rules Updated Daily at http://www.hallikainen.com
Not sent from an iPhone.

From Foltarz at rocketmail.com  Mon Feb 22 21:09:37 2021
From: Foltarz at rocketmail.com (Mark Foltarz)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 02:09:37 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [GreenKeys] Looking for  HAL  CWR 6850A Keyboard
In-Reply-To: <a0c8ef6c-648e-2625-65a3-5fc27ba49875@ix.netcom.com>
References: <CAB55hNdVdy4-AFyJDRY2y6Msacj+CWdJ-1-m9B+Q__fyLxCOnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<054f5857-20a6-808a-c03e-286d017036d5@ix.netcom.com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2102170815440.70858@aneurin.horsfall.org>
	<87b57f37-ed7d-3dc5-4609-bcbaec36d159@ix.netcom.com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2102171149270.70858@aneurin.horsfall.org>
	<a0c8ef6c-648e-2625-65a3-5fc27ba49875@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <535859186.1421942.1614046177903@mail.yahoo.com>

 Found a HAL Telereader at a hamfest this weekend.Wow, it looked rough but I took a chance.Glad I did.It cleaned up great and after a couple of power up attempts and hitting the reset button the display started working.But it did not come with a keyboard.?
Anyone get a spare Hal Telereader keyboard they would part with ?
tnxde KA4JVYMark  
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From paul0926 at comcast.net  Mon Feb 22 21:36:46 2021
From: paul0926 at comcast.net (Paul Heller)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 19:36:46 -0700
Subject: [GreenKeys] Looking for  HAL  CWR 6850A Keyboard
In-Reply-To: <535859186.1421942.1614046177903@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CAB55hNdVdy4-AFyJDRY2y6Msacj+CWdJ-1-m9B+Q__fyLxCOnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<054f5857-20a6-808a-c03e-286d017036d5@ix.netcom.com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2102170815440.70858@aneurin.horsfall.org>
	<87b57f37-ed7d-3dc5-4609-bcbaec36d159@ix.netcom.com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2102171149270.70858@aneurin.horsfall.org>
	<a0c8ef6c-648e-2625-65a3-5fc27ba49875@ix.netcom.com>
	<535859186.1421942.1614046177903@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <F6547819-9FC7-43B1-B83F-B46AEDBC5069@comcast.net>

Wow you live in an area that had a hamfest? Everything where I am is still shut down.


Paul
W2TTY



> On Feb 22, 2021, at 7:09 PM, Mark Foltarz via GreenKeys <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net> wrote:
> 
> Found a HAL Telereader at a hamfest this weekend.
> Wow, it looked rough but I took a chance.
> Glad I did.
> It cleaned up great and after a couple of power up attempts and hitting the reset button the display started working.
> But it did not come with a keyboard. 
> 
> Anyone get a spare Hal Telereader keyboard they would part with ?
> 
> tnx
> de KA4JVY
> Mark
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> 
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to phearvada at gmail.com

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From kn4ucl at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 19:32:23 2021
From: kn4ucl at gmail.com (Andy KN4UCL)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 19:32:23 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] UPDATE- shockingly basic question - Teletype Model
	33 ASR
In-Reply-To: <1687318958.3916.1612985996866@connect.xfinity.com>
References: <B89CF151-3196-4D55-A45D-B426569310B6@gmail.com>
	<C2BFE42A-19EA-46EF-AFF2-2474709B1C72@yahoo.com>
	<CA+H6KC=jKmB2VN7GWMx0Yot7YunHpWNG=i5111yncACKaYHgPA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+H6KCkDs4NKNSEHNbG=CBDfxBnXZ1tQdW4sJQ-x1ZjFaA7kBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMyt5OQ1h4pRUbQPEhXdNt4bxfoPV0cKnH6s9RGfRvt4fVSFog@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+H6KCmYH+T1apcMb4GNr3--aQyEzDATESL=fz7jDmB3_KKy=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMyt5OTU0bMtRikk-R4NrBTB4u7PKEXDT6ygDdRNC55_aoiMVg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+H6KCmX6X2oHCyVo1yVLN-n65OK1xF8dCkeCMARH02F7osTmA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1687318958.3916.1612985996866@connect.xfinity.com>
Message-ID: <CA+H6KCmTfOt5HuLcTiJa_T=6U+y-X72DwyKdg9FGG0+FNrefJA@mail.gmail.com>

UPDATE: The deal clincher per Wayne was the two caps (the 250 and 1500MFD)
- inaugural powering up recorded for posterity.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdO3BGXMGhM

So far so good!

cheers.... Andy

On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 2:40 PM WAYNE <teletypeparts at comcast.net> wrote:

> Andy,
>
> The trouble is the smaller electrolytic capacitor in the front of the
> UCC-6.  Just in front of the large green multi-tap resistor.   250 MFD at
> 75VDC.  Very common trouble.
>
> I have a couple used ones but you might want to order a new one from
> Mouser.  I think I would get 2 so you would have another for the second
> 33.
>
> Also the 1500 MF at 30VDC electrolytic that lays behind the SMD card will
> cause a buzzing when you push the armature open with power plugged in and
> 33 in OFF position.
>
> But loud buzzing when power plugged in is definitely the smaller cap.
>
> 73,
>
> Wayne
>
>
>
> On 02/09/2021 8:47 PM Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I removed the SMD card and took a photo (see attached) and all looks
> visually OK.  Before swapping with the other one I popped it back in just
> to make sure things were as before... but yikes!  Quite a buzzing sound in
> Line or Local.  Line was no longer working and Local would not type very
> faithfully. Buzzing did not stop so I quickly powered off, and when I did
> there was a gentle mechanical  'pop' as the power released. I removed and
> repositioned the card ... but same symptoms.
>
> Thought I'd better power off before something starts burning!
>
> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 7:21 PM Michael Katzmann < vk2bea at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Try swapping the selector magnet driver card between the two units. (
> vertical card on the right hand edge). If you are having problems in local
> then it is not the RS232-current loop circuit but it might be the magnet
> driver.
>
> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 4:53 PM Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> So RIGHT NOW the machine is running great, just like in the video from
> 1:42s  onwards.  It also prints perfectly in Local mode as well right now,
> no matter how fast I try to type.
>
> However - it will intermittently go back to garbage output, as is shown
> prior to 1:42s in the video.
>
> When I was testing in Local last night it was OK typing slowly, but typing
> a little fast caused garbage output.
>
> So I think the terminal is intermittently behaving badly, in LIne and
> Local.
>
> But.. of course... right now it is behaving itself!
>
> cheers
> Andy
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 2:21 PM Michael Katzmann < vk2bea at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> I don't see this as a parity issue. I would expect the ASR33 typing unit
> to ignore parity on receive. Although, I think the tape punch will punch
> the eighth bit (or parity) if received.
> Likewise the tape reader will read and send all eight bits.
>
> Does the ASR read a tape and print consistently in local ?
> I'd be suspicious of the RS232 converter. If you have an oscilloscope and
> can look at the RS232 input compared with the current loop output it may
> prove or dispel this hypothesis.
>
> Michael
>
> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 1:22 PM Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Well I was hoping that it was either my serial loop adapter acting up, or
> a cabling-from-serial-converter-to-terminal-server problem.  I've replaced
> everything (including the terminal server) but sadly no obvious fix.
>
>    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-w-HCXI25E
>
> I've got two similar 33s (both no parity keyboards) and I've had them both
> running at the same time connected to my terminal server for a while now.
> Recently I get very garbled data on one of them. It doesn't seem to be
> related to the connected equipment or cabling as I've replaced everything.
>
> Then... very weirdly it starts working again, as you can see  at 1:42s on
> the video.
>
> Apart from fiddling about with the rangefinder, any other thoughts about
> (simple ?) tests or adjustments I can make to diagnose this?
>
> thanks folks.
> Andy
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 3:33 PM Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> OK well this is all very embarrassing. I have two almost identical 33s
> (both non-parity) .... the other one works great connected to my Terminal
> Server so thought I'd better  swap the RS232 Adapters, port and cable.. and
> hey presto - my "not working due to parity errors" Teletype started running
> fine!
>
> I then swapped back to the original RS232 adapter, cables and port...
> expecting things to NOT work... but of course, everything ran fine (sigh.)
>
> I've tried jiggling the cables (I was hopeful maybe a weird cable problem
> could be the issue) but I am struggling to see how a wiring problem would
> look like a legit parity problem.
>
> Anyway! All good for now.. but I am curious what would cause these
> parity-like symptoms. I am going to replace the cables anyway, and probably
> grab another RS232 converter just in case.
>
> cheers!
> Andy
>
> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 11:05 PM Mike Douglas < deramp5113 at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> Since you are concerned about the parity of your keyboard while testing
> the TTY printing function, I assume your terminal server is in a mode where
> it echos characters that you type on the TTY keyboard back out to the TTY
> printer and you are testing your printer by typing on the TTY keyboard?
>
> If this is what you?re doing and you have a non-parity keyboard, then set
> the serial port to 7 data bits plus mark parity (non parity keyboards set
> the 8th bit to one). This should ensure the server accepts the typed
> characters. If you type one character at a time with a short pause between
> each character, then each character should echo properly to the TTY
> printer. The pause between each character will be more than the two stop
> bits the printer requires (and the printer ignores the 8th bit).
>
> If, however, you have a telnet session open and are sending data from a
> remote device to the TTY printer and are not using the TTY keyboard to
> generate test data, then set the serial port to 8 data bits plus mark
> parity. This will appear as 8 data bits and 2 stop bits to the printer (as
> it requires) and the printer can then keep up with a steady stream of data.
>
> If you are getting some garbage characters with either of these methods
> but everything prints correctly in local mode, you made need to adjust the
> rangefinder a bit.
>
> Mike
>
> On Feb 3, 2021, at 9:22 PM, Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> My Teletype has a Deramp converter which goes direct into an Equinox
> ELS-16 terminal server.  When I start I get a session with the terminal
> server and can interact directly with the server ... or telnet onwards
> elsewhere.
>
> On Feb 3, 2021, at 10:00 PM, Mike Douglas < deramp5113 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I guess I?m confused as to your test setup then. What is sending data to
> your Teletype? Is it coming from an external source other than the
> Teletype, or are you testing by somehow looping keyboard input from your
> TTY back out to the TTY printer?
>
> Mike
>
> On Feb 3, 2021, at 8:36 PM, Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I think I am still missing a trick or two here...I tried every combination
> of 8 and 7 even/odd/none/mark/space and I get no printing at all with 8
> bit, but moderately bad spelling errors with 7.  See attachment below...
> presumably this means I have the non-parity keyboard?
>
> thanks in advance for your thoughts!
> Andy
>
> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 8:18 PM Mike Douglas < deramp5113 at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> If you select 8 bit with mark parity on your terminal server, you?ll
> probably get the 8N2 timing the Teletype requires (the mark parity bit
> serves as the first stop bit).
>
> Mike
>
> On Jan 31, 2021, at 7:11 PM, Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks guys for the responses - a lot of great info for me to digest!
>
> My terminal server (Equinox ELS-16) allows me to define character size as
> 7 or 8 bits, and to set parity as NONE, ODD, EVEN, MARK or SPACE.
>
> I don't seem to have the ability to specifically state the number of stop
> bits, however.
>
>
> Anyway.. I'm going to crack my Teletype open and confirm exactly what's
> going on.
> cheers!
> Andy
>
> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 5:43 PM Keith Lueck < kwlueck at swbell.net> wrote:
>
>
> Jim & Wayne are spot-on, of course.  I learned the hard way that you best
> include the parity bit - even though the 33 doesn't give a whit about
> parity...
> My machine was occasionally producing errors when I was feeding it 7 N 2.
> Wayne Durkee set me straight, and, viola, when I sent it 7 M 2, everything
> was 100% ducky.
>
> On Sunday, January 31, 2021, 03:32:30 PM CST, Jim Haynes <
> jhhaynes at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
> All the 33s and 35s generate 11 unit code.  1 start bit, 7 data bits, one
> bit which may be even parity or may be marking, and two stop bits.  That's
> where 110 baud comes from. 100 wpm = 10 chars/sec and each char contains
> 11 bits.  The reason for two stop bits is the difficulty of making a
> mechanical selector that is reliable at 100 wpm.
>
>     ---
>
>     "Ya can argue all ya wanna, but it's dif'rent than it was."
>     "No it ain't! No it ain't!  But ya gotta know the territory."
>         Meredith Willson, The Music Man
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto: GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to kwlueck at swbell.net
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto: GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>
> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>
> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>
> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to deramp5113 at yahoo.com
>
> <non parity keyboard.png>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto: GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to vk2bea at gmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>    |\      _,,,---,,_             Michael Katzmann
>    /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_         NV3Z / VK2BEA / G4NYV
>   |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'
>  '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)             vk2bea at gmail.com
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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>
>
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From vk2bea at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 19:53:09 2021
From: vk2bea at gmail.com (Michael Katzmann)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 19:53:09 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] UPDATE- shockingly basic question - Teletype Model
	33 ASR
In-Reply-To: <CA+H6KCmTfOt5HuLcTiJa_T=6U+y-X72DwyKdg9FGG0+FNrefJA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B89CF151-3196-4D55-A45D-B426569310B6@gmail.com>
	<C2BFE42A-19EA-46EF-AFF2-2474709B1C72@yahoo.com>
	<CA+H6KC=jKmB2VN7GWMx0Yot7YunHpWNG=i5111yncACKaYHgPA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+H6KCkDs4NKNSEHNbG=CBDfxBnXZ1tQdW4sJQ-x1ZjFaA7kBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMyt5OQ1h4pRUbQPEhXdNt4bxfoPV0cKnH6s9RGfRvt4fVSFog@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+H6KCmYH+T1apcMb4GNr3--aQyEzDATESL=fz7jDmB3_KKy=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMyt5OTU0bMtRikk-R4NrBTB4u7PKEXDT6ygDdRNC55_aoiMVg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+H6KCmX6X2oHCyVo1yVLN-n65OK1xF8dCkeCMARH02F7osTmA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1687318958.3916.1612985996866@connect.xfinity.com>
	<CA+H6KCmTfOt5HuLcTiJa_T=6U+y-X72DwyKdg9FGG0+FNrefJA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMyt5OS-Fz9-yR-yk0O2GgrLS_FKnW4f5g7ZoWAQEbQOGb_yRg@mail.gmail.com>

Congrats ... A great feeling when it all comes together. In the past month
I've had to recap the electros in my spectrum analyzer and replace a
tantalum in both that and a receiver. When tantalums go bad they frequently
do so by shorting, as in these cases.
At least those you had to replace were pretty standard electros.  The three
terminal one in the reader external supply might be hard to find!

Michael

On Wed, Feb 24, 2021 at 7:32 PM Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:

> UPDATE: The deal clincher per Wayne was the two caps (the 250 and 1500MFD)
> - inaugural powering up recorded for posterity.
>
>   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdO3BGXMGhM
>
> So far so good!
>
> cheers.... Andy
>
> On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 2:40 PM WAYNE <teletypeparts at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Andy,
>>
>> The trouble is the smaller electrolytic capacitor in the front of the
>> UCC-6.  Just in front of the large green multi-tap resistor.   250 MFD at
>> 75VDC.  Very common trouble.
>>
>> I have a couple used ones but you might want to order a new one from
>> Mouser.  I think I would get 2 so you would have another for the second
>> 33.
>>
>> Also the 1500 MF at 30VDC electrolytic that lays behind the SMD card will
>> cause a buzzing when you push the armature open with power plugged in and
>> 33 in OFF position.
>>
>> But loud buzzing when power plugged in is definitely the smaller cap.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Wayne
>>
>>
>>
>> On 02/09/2021 8:47 PM Andy KN4UCL <kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I removed the SMD card and took a photo (see attached) and all looks
>> visually OK.  Before swapping with the other one I popped it back in just
>> to make sure things were as before... but yikes!  Quite a buzzing sound in
>> Line or Local.  Line was no longer working and Local would not type very
>> faithfully. Buzzing did not stop so I quickly powered off, and when I did
>> there was a gentle mechanical  'pop' as the power released. I removed and
>> repositioned the card ... but same symptoms.
>>
>> Thought I'd better power off before something starts burning!
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 7:21 PM Michael Katzmann < vk2bea at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Try swapping the selector magnet driver card between the two units. (
>> vertical card on the right hand edge). If you are having problems in local
>> then it is not the RS232-current loop circuit but it might be the magnet
>> driver.
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 4:53 PM Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> So RIGHT NOW the machine is running great, just like in the video from
>> 1:42s  onwards.  It also prints perfectly in Local mode as well right now,
>> no matter how fast I try to type.
>>
>> However - it will intermittently go back to garbage output, as is shown
>> prior to 1:42s in the video.
>>
>> When I was testing in Local last night it was OK typing slowly, but
>> typing a little fast caused garbage output.
>>
>> So I think the terminal is intermittently behaving badly, in LIne and
>> Local.
>>
>> But.. of course... right now it is behaving itself!
>>
>> cheers
>> Andy
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 2:21 PM Michael Katzmann < vk2bea at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I don't see this as a parity issue. I would expect the ASR33 typing unit
>> to ignore parity on receive. Although, I think the tape punch will punch
>> the eighth bit (or parity) if received.
>> Likewise the tape reader will read and send all eight bits.
>>
>> Does the ASR read a tape and print consistently in local ?
>> I'd be suspicious of the RS232 converter. If you have an oscilloscope and
>> can look at the RS232 input compared with the current loop output it may
>> prove or dispel this hypothesis.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 1:22 PM Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Well I was hoping that it was either my serial loop adapter acting up, or
>> a cabling-from-serial-converter-to-terminal-server problem.  I've replaced
>> everything (including the terminal server) but sadly no obvious fix.
>>
>>    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-w-HCXI25E
>>
>> I've got two similar 33s (both no parity keyboards) and I've had them
>> both running at the same time connected to my terminal server for a while
>> now.  Recently I get very garbled data on one of them. It doesn't seem to
>> be related to the connected equipment or cabling as I've replaced
>> everything.
>>
>> Then... very weirdly it starts working again, as you can see  at 1:42s on
>> the video.
>>
>> Apart from fiddling about with the rangefinder, any other thoughts about
>> (simple ?) tests or adjustments I can make to diagnose this?
>>
>> thanks folks.
>> Andy
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 3:33 PM Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> OK well this is all very embarrassing. I have two almost identical 33s
>> (both non-parity) .... the other one works great connected to my Terminal
>> Server so thought I'd better  swap the RS232 Adapters, port and cable.. and
>> hey presto - my "not working due to parity errors" Teletype started running
>> fine!
>>
>> I then swapped back to the original RS232 adapter, cables and port...
>> expecting things to NOT work... but of course, everything ran fine (sigh.)
>>
>> I've tried jiggling the cables (I was hopeful maybe a weird cable problem
>> could be the issue) but I am struggling to see how a wiring problem would
>> look like a legit parity problem.
>>
>> Anyway! All good for now.. but I am curious what would cause these
>> parity-like symptoms. I am going to replace the cables anyway, and probably
>> grab another RS232 converter just in case.
>>
>> cheers!
>> Andy
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 11:05 PM Mike Douglas < deramp5113 at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Since you are concerned about the parity of your keyboard while testing
>> the TTY printing function, I assume your terminal server is in a mode where
>> it echos characters that you type on the TTY keyboard back out to the TTY
>> printer and you are testing your printer by typing on the TTY keyboard?
>>
>> If this is what you?re doing and you have a non-parity keyboard, then set
>> the serial port to 7 data bits plus mark parity (non parity keyboards set
>> the 8th bit to one). This should ensure the server accepts the typed
>> characters. If you type one character at a time with a short pause between
>> each character, then each character should echo properly to the TTY
>> printer. The pause between each character will be more than the two stop
>> bits the printer requires (and the printer ignores the 8th bit).
>>
>> If, however, you have a telnet session open and are sending data from a
>> remote device to the TTY printer and are not using the TTY keyboard to
>> generate test data, then set the serial port to 8 data bits plus mark
>> parity. This will appear as 8 data bits and 2 stop bits to the printer (as
>> it requires) and the printer can then keep up with a steady stream of data.
>>
>> If you are getting some garbage characters with either of these methods
>> but everything prints correctly in local mode, you made need to adjust the
>> rangefinder a bit.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 9:22 PM, Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> My Teletype has a Deramp converter which goes direct into an Equinox
>> ELS-16 terminal server.  When I start I get a session with the terminal
>> server and can interact directly with the server ... or telnet onwards
>> elsewhere.
>>
>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 10:00 PM, Mike Douglas < deramp5113 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> I guess I?m confused as to your test setup then. What is sending data to
>> your Teletype? Is it coming from an external source other than the
>> Teletype, or are you testing by somehow looping keyboard input from your
>> TTY back out to the TTY printer?
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 8:36 PM, Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I think I am still missing a trick or two here...I tried every
>> combination of 8 and 7 even/odd/none/mark/space and I get no printing at
>> all with 8 bit, but moderately bad spelling errors with 7.  See attachment
>> below... presumably this means I have the non-parity keyboard?
>>
>> thanks in advance for your thoughts!
>> Andy
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 8:18 PM Mike Douglas < deramp5113 at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> If you select 8 bit with mark parity on your terminal server, you?ll
>> probably get the 8N2 timing the Teletype requires (the mark parity bit
>> serves as the first stop bit).
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> On Jan 31, 2021, at 7:11 PM, Andy KN4UCL < kn4ucl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks guys for the responses - a lot of great info for me to digest!
>>
>> My terminal server (Equinox ELS-16) allows me to define character size as
>> 7 or 8 bits, and to set parity as NONE, ODD, EVEN, MARK or SPACE.
>>
>> I don't seem to have the ability to specifically state the number of stop
>> bits, however.
>>
>>
>> Anyway.. I'm going to crack my Teletype open and confirm exactly what's
>> going on.
>> cheers!
>> Andy
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 5:43 PM Keith Lueck < kwlueck at swbell.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Jim & Wayne are spot-on, of course.  I learned the hard way that you best
>> include the parity bit - even though the 33 doesn't give a whit about
>> parity...
>> My machine was occasionally producing errors when I was feeding it 7 N
>> 2.  Wayne Durkee set me straight, and, viola, when I sent it 7 M 2,
>> everything was 100% ducky.
>>
>> On Sunday, January 31, 2021, 03:32:30 PM CST, Jim Haynes <
>> jhhaynes at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> All the 33s and 35s generate 11 unit code.  1 start bit, 7 data bits, one
>> bit which may be even parity or may be marking, and two stop bits.
>> That's
>> where 110 baud comes from. 100 wpm = 10 chars/sec and each char contains
>> 11 bits.  The reason for two stop bits is the difficulty of making a
>> mechanical selector that is reliable at 100 wpm.
>>
>>     ---
>>
>>     "Ya can argue all ya wanna, but it's dif'rent than it was."
>>     "No it ain't! No it ain't!  But ya gotta know the territory."
>>         Meredith Willson, The Music Man
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> GreenKeys mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto: GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>
>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to kwlueck at swbell.net
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> GreenKeys mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto: GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>
>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>
>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>
>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>
>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to deramp5113 at yahoo.com
>>
>> <non parity keyboard.png>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
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>> Post: mailto: GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>
>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>    |\      _,,,---,,_             Michael Katzmann
>>    /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_         NV3Z / VK2BEA / G4NYV
>>   |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'
>>  '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)             vk2bea at gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> GreenKeys mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>
>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to teletypeparts at comcast.net
>>
>>

-- 
   |\      _,,,---,,_             Michael Katzmann
   /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_         NV3Z / VK2BEA / G4NYV
  |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'
 '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)             vk2bea at gmail.com
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From n3crk at hotmail.com  Fri Feb 26 10:16:27 2021
From: n3crk at hotmail.com (Tom Hunter)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 15:16:27 +0000
Subject: [GreenKeys] WTB 28 KSR
Message-ID: <BY5PR04MB6994DEBE91C318EDAFFDBA4DE89D9@BY5PR04MB6994.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>

Want to buy in Point Marion, South-Western PA, 28 KSR on stand, would like 60 speed.

>From Western PA, Eastern Ohio or Northern WV.

Tom, N3CRK

RTTY Repeater 444.3 Overlooking Point Mariom PA

From jdangus at att.net  Fri Feb 26 13:59:04 2021
From: jdangus at att.net (Jeffrey Angus)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 12:59:04 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] Tuning indicator question
References: <87b38dc6-5399-d375-c0b4-f477bb5bb691.ref@att.net>
Message-ID: <87b38dc6-5399-d375-c0b4-f477bb5bb691@att.net>

On the old scope tuning indicators:
<https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e8/RTTY_cross.JPG/220px-RTTY_cross.JPG>
I forget, which one is typically the Mark signal? The Vertical or the 
Horizontal?

-- 
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWI
www.foxsmercantile.com


From jdangus at att.net  Fri Feb 26 14:51:58 2021
From: jdangus at att.net (Jeffrey Angus)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 13:51:58 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] Tuning indicator question
In-Reply-To: <000c01d70c76$5b18dfb0$114a9f10$@net>
References: <87b38dc6-5399-d375-c0b4-f477bb5bb691.ref@att.net>
	<87b38dc6-5399-d375-c0b4-f477bb5bb691@att.net>
	<000c01d70c76$5b18dfb0$114a9f10$@net>
Message-ID: <050cdb52-6de7-dafb-f245-395786a322a4@att.net>

On 2/26/21 1:34 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
> Usually the horizontal is for the mark and the vertical is for the space .
>
> Ralph ku4pt
That's what I thought. I just couldn't remember.

-- 
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWI
www.foxsmercantile.com


From kn4ucl at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 20:28:27 2021
From: kn4ucl at gmail.com (Andy KN4UCL)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 20:28:27 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] My M33: should I leave well alone?
Message-ID: <CA+H6KCn4yXLVdWqT0FmmtU9Gf=Bggww_7uUSmVMQpgUDPt_+2A@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings guys, after new caps and a good oiling.... all good.

However - I do have some minor random printing going on for approx. the
first ten minutes after powering up. Seems to happen in both Local or Line
mode.

I observe occasional single characters, but sometimes it chatters away for
a short while - similar to running in open.

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF1779DifME

Anyway, should I mess with things further or leave well alone?

cheers.... Andy
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From djones at k6yic.com  Sat Feb 27 14:14:47 2021
From: djones at k6yic.com (Daniel Jones)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2021 11:14:47 -0800
Subject: [GreenKeys] Uss Iowa NE6PM
Message-ID: <92670DFC-54B8-4F9C-8736-2C0E7B58414E@k6yic.com>

We are transmitting 850 shift on 14.086 LSB for the next couple of hours should anyone hear us. 

Daniel

K6YIC 
http://K6YIC.com

From teletypeparts at comcast.net  Sat Feb 27 14:52:44 2021
From: teletypeparts at comcast.net (WAYNE)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2021 14:52:44 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [GreenKeys] My M33: should I leave well alone?
In-Reply-To: <CA+H6KCn4yXLVdWqT0FmmtU9Gf=Bggww_7uUSmVMQpgUDPt_+2A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+H6KCn4yXLVdWqT0FmmtU9Gf=Bggww_7uUSmVMQpgUDPt_+2A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1035569359.9362.1614455564526@connect.xfinity.com>

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