From til128 at juno.com  Mon Jan  1 09:54:34 2024
From: til128 at juno.com (til128 at juno.com)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2024 14:54:34 GMT
Subject: A reminder - DAVE BARRY’S YEAR IN REVIEW
Message-ID: <20240101.095434.12498.0@webmail01.dca.untd.com>


NOW THAT WE ARE RUSHING HEADLONG INTO THE NEW YEAR, THE ANNUAL "DAVE
BARRY?S YEAR IN REVIEW" WILL BE SENT ON THE AUTO CHANNEL  ON TODAY,
JANUARY 1, 2024 AT 1500 EASTERN.


HTTP://INTERNET-TTY.NET:8030/AUTOSTART


IT WILL BE IN FOUR PARTS WITH A 2-3 MINUTE PAUSE BETWEEN EACH PART.
HOPE TO SEE YOU ALL THERE.


BEST WISHES FOR THE NEW YEAR, STAY SAFE AND BE WELL.


TOM WB2TTY TILLSON

ITTY LISTENING:

ITTY: HTTP://INTERNET-TTY.NET:8000/ITTY

AUTO: HTTP://INTERNET-TTY.NET:8030/AUTOSTART

GREENWICH: HTTP://INTERNET-TTY.NET:8040/EUROPE

ITTY 100: HTTP://INTERNET-TTY.NET:8010/ITTY100

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FOR THOSE UNFAMILIAR WITH HIM, DAVE BARRY IS AN AMERICAN AUTHOR AND
COLUMNIST WHO WROTE A NATIONALLY SYNDICATED HUMOR COLUMN FOR THE
MIAMI HERALD FROM 1983 TO 2005. HE HAS ALSO WRITTEN NUMEROUS BOOKS
OF HUMOR AND PARODY. - TT




From w1an.dxusa at gmail.com  Mon Jan  1 20:39:22 2024
From: w1an.dxusa at gmail.com (John Spigel)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2024 01:39:22 +0000
Subject: [GreenKeys] Auction Western Union Items in OH January 4
Message-ID: <d42554cb-2bf9-4f67-8896-137bff827323@gmail.com>

Here's something to take a look at. There are a number of WU items that 
look interesting if just for viewing. Some appear to include vintage 
polar relay for mark and space, a polar relay test set and WU office 
clocks. There is also what looks like a tape printer, although newer. 
Look at items in the range of 2517-2522. Auction is Jan 4. Shipping is 
available. You may be able to bid online or phone. Always getting. Never 
new this stuff existed. And it will probably go cheap.

https://www.appletreeauction.com/auction-lot/vintage-western-union-telegraph-co.-teminal-block_CB540D7B74

73, John W1AN

From w1an.dxusa at gmail.com  Mon Jan  1 21:34:11 2024
From: w1an.dxusa at gmail.com (John Spigel)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2024 02:34:11 +0000
Subject: [GreenKeys] Auction Western Union Items in OH January 4
In-Reply-To: <d42554cb-2bf9-4f67-8896-137bff827323@gmail.com>
References: <d42554cb-2bf9-4f67-8896-137bff827323@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c3f6d5b9-e2fa-4cbe-a473-819c56516da0@gmail.com>

There's actually a lot more that I now see. Some are quite rare and 
museum type pieces.
https://www.appletreeauction.com/auction-lot/telegraph-equipment_A034072AC9
https://www.appletreeauction.com/auction-lot/western-union-items_AEB4B95BA3

Items 2482 starts the Western Union items with other items in the mix. 
You can call or register online to start bidding.

On 02-Jan-24 01:39, John Spigel wrote:
> Here's something to take a look at. There are a number of WU items 
> that look interesting if just for viewing. Some appear to include 
> vintage polar relay for mark and space, a polar relay test set and WU 
> office clocks. There is also what looks like a tape printer, although 
> newer. Look at items in the range of 2517-2522. Auction is Jan 4. 
> Shipping is available. You may be able to bid online or phone. Always 
> getting. Never new this stuff existed. And it will probably go cheap.
>
> https://www.appletreeauction.com/auction-lot/vintage-western-union-telegraph-co.-teminal-block_CB540D7B74 
>
>
> 73, John W1AN


From harold at w6iwi.org  Mon Jan  1 21:53:29 2024
From: harold at w6iwi.org (Harold Hallikainen)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2024 19:53:29 -0700
Subject: [GreenKeys] Auction Western Union Items in OH January 4
In-Reply-To: <c3f6d5b9-e2fa-4cbe-a473-819c56516da0@gmail.com>
References: <d42554cb-2bf9-4f67-8896-137bff827323@gmail.com>
	<c3f6d5b9-e2fa-4cbe-a473-819c56516da0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4e3945329e466a6526f8200b8ae17ff4.squirrel@hallikainen.org>

Very nice!

I used to have a Weston meter like the one at
https://www.appletreeauction.com/auction-lot/western-union-items_FFB448583B
. It weighed 10 pounds.

On the Instructograph tapes, my brother just bought me an Instructograph
machine he found in Utah. I should have it in a week or so.

Harold
https://w6iwi.org


From w1an.dxusa at gmail.com  Mon Jan  1 22:18:33 2024
From: w1an.dxusa at gmail.com (John Spigel)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2024 03:18:33 +0000
Subject: [GreenKeys] Auction Western Union Items in OH January 4
In-Reply-To: <4e3945329e466a6526f8200b8ae17ff4.squirrel@hallikainen.org>
References: <d42554cb-2bf9-4f67-8896-137bff827323@gmail.com>
	<c3f6d5b9-e2fa-4cbe-a473-819c56516da0@gmail.com>
	<4e3945329e466a6526f8200b8ae17ff4.squirrel@hallikainen.org>
Message-ID: <9ddabfee-7a59-4388-9aa4-2bd387854c00@gmail.com>

Harold, Yes, Weston instruments are well known and the company survived 
for many years. They were in Newark, N.J., my birthplace, along with 
Westinghouse where my Dad worked, G.E. lamp, RCA tube, Tung-Sol, Edison, 
and many many others. An interesting item in the auction is a morse tape 
printer, probably vintage 1830-1840. The "instructograph" you mentioned 
was for the American Morse code as can be read on the tapes. Again, some 
is museum stuff.

John



On 02-Jan-24 02:53, Harold Hallikainen via GreenKeys wrote:
> Very nice!
>
> I used to have a Weston meter like the one at
> https://www.appletreeauction.com/auction-lot/western-union-items_FFB448583B
> . It weighed 10 pounds.
>
> On the Instructograph tapes, my brother just bought me an Instructograph
> machine he found in Utah. I should have it in a week or so.
>
> Harold
> https://w6iwi.org
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to w1an.dxusa at gmail.com


From w9ddd at tapr.org  Mon Jan  1 22:58:38 2024
From: w9ddd at tapr.org (John, W9DDD)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2024 21:58:38 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] Auction Western Union Items in OH January 4
In-Reply-To: <d42554cb-2bf9-4f67-8896-137bff827323@gmail.com>
References: <d42554cb-2bf9-4f67-8896-137bff827323@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43e82c96-e9ff-7365-a57a-dcde26570232@tapr.org>

Item 2517 looks like the one in

https://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/tty/jh/bsps/bsp/570series/573-107-100TC.pdf

28 Tape Printer Set (stock ticker)

More detailed here:

https://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/tty/jh/bsps/bsp/570series/573-140-100TC.pdf

It actually used a type box instead of a type wheel.? Also it's 6 bit 
rather than 5.

---
----
You said "tomorrow" yesterday.

The above comments or recommendations are SWAG. Use at your own risk.
John, W9DDD

On 1/1/2024 7:39 PM, John Spigel wrote:
> Here's something to take a look at. There are a number of WU items 
> that look interesting if just for viewing. Some appear to include 
> vintage polar relay for mark and space, a polar relay test set and WU 
> office clocks. There is also what looks like a tape printer, although 
> newer. Look at items in the range of 2517-2522. Auction is Jan 4. 
> Shipping is available. You may be able to bid online or phone. Always 
> getting. Never new this stuff existed. And it will probably go cheap.
>
> https://www.appletreeauction.com/auction-lot/vintage-western-union-telegraph-co.-teminal-block_CB540D7B74 
>
>
> 73, John W1AN
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: 
>>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: 
>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: 
>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: 
>>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to w9ddd at tapr.org


From gblock at sbcglobal.net  Tue Jan  2 00:18:27 2024
From: gblock at sbcglobal.net (Gerry Block)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2024 21:18:27 -0800
Subject: [GreenKeys] Auction Western Union Items in OH January 4
In-Reply-To: <4e3945329e466a6526f8200b8ae17ff4.squirrel@hallikainen.org>
References: <4e3945329e466a6526f8200b8ae17ff4.squirrel@hallikainen.org>
Message-ID: <9EB6C87C-4A6D-4E2D-9F1D-358551E6C0D5@sbcglobal.net>

a number of years ago i saved (by purchasing from the owner) 8 of these wu relays in brand new boxes with brand new bases.  i then tried to sell them for nothing on ebay and tried to give them away in green keys.  i gave up after 5 years and threw them away.  i can say with 
high confidence what they are worth. 
gerry ad6mc

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 1, 2024, at 6:53?PM, Harold Hallikainen via GreenKeys <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net> wrote:
> 
> ?Very nice!
> 
> I used to have a Weston meter like the one at
> https://www.appletreeauction.com/auction-lot/western-union-items_FFB448583B
> . It weighed 10 pounds.
> 
> On the Instructograph tapes, my brother just bought me an Instructograph
> machine he found in Utah. I should have it in a week or so.
> 
> Harold
> https://w6iwi.org
> 
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> 
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to gblock at sbcglobal.net


From jhhaynes at earthlink.net  Tue Jan  2 08:39:27 2024
From: jhhaynes at earthlink.net (Jim Haynes)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2024 07:39:27 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [GreenKeys] Auction Western Union Items in OH January 4
In-Reply-To: <43e82c96-e9ff-7365-a57a-dcde26570232@tapr.org>
References: <d42554cb-2bf9-4f67-8896-137bff827323@gmail.com>
	<43e82c96-e9ff-7365-a57a-dcde26570232@tapr.org>
Message-ID: <bf4dcdaa-91eb-b930-907c-18f71d3b9f88@earthlink.net>




On Mon, 1 Jan 2024, John, W9DDD wrote:

> Item 2517 looks like the one in
>
> https://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/tty/jh/bsps/bsp/570series/573-107-100TC.pdf
>
> 28 Tape Printer Set (stock ticker)
>
If that's what it is, I would say that was Teletype's last successful
all-mechanical product.  While it is called Model 28 it actually uses
Model 37 technology.  I guess AT&T wanted to keep the Model 37 number
clean forthe then-forthcoming Model 37 page printer set.  The previous
stock ticker line was the 1930s black cube typewheel machine.  These
were too slow for the volume of stock trades around 1960, so the NYSE
commissioned Teletype to produce a new model that was 50% faster.

Model 37 used an aggregate-motion mechanism that did not return the
type box to a home position between characters, so it looked very lazy
in operation.  It ran at 900 characters/minute.


From pbirkel at gmail.com  Tue Jan  2 09:07:05 2024
From: pbirkel at gmail.com (pbirkel at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2024 09:07:05 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Powering Series (Governed) Motors (LMU6)
Message-ID: <10aa01da3d84$f73d0640$e5b712c0$@gmail.com>

As related in another thread I have acquired a BRPE21 with a governed LMU6
motor unit.

 

The motor plate states: 5PA66HV2A / Type: PA / V: 115 / CY: 60/50 / WD:
SERIES

 

Bulletin 295B "Technical Manual for Motor Units"
(https://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/tty/295B-6504.pdf) states that the LMU6
series (governed) motor is AC/DC.  I infer that if I simply supply 120VAC
60Hz the governing components/circuitry will have no adverse effect, but
that's not made clear anywhere.  The curved-blade power socket seems to
suggest that this installation was intended for DC operation, so I'm
reticent to simply supply AC "and see what happens".  (Shaft turns freely
and depressing the four spring-ball oiling ports appears to indicate the
presence of sufficient light-weight oil, so other than modest cleaning the
motor assembly appears to be ready-to-go.)

 

In the TM, Figure 5 "Typical Series (Governed) Motor Unit Schematic Diagram"
(PDF page 16 of 52) is the applicable schematic; there's no indication of
polarization at the LINE connection.  Is this correct for 115 VDC operation
(either orientation is fine)?

 

Can I simply power the LMU6 with 60 Hz, 120 VAC without any changes?

 

- paul

 

 

 

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From w1an.dxusa at gmail.com  Tue Jan  2 10:16:58 2024
From: w1an.dxusa at gmail.com (John Spigel)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2024 15:16:58 +0000
Subject: [GreenKeys] Powering Series (Governed) Motors (LMU6)
In-Reply-To: <10aa01da3d84$f73d0640$e5b712c0$@gmail.com>
References: <10aa01da3d84$f73d0640$e5b712c0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f4eacf51-1fb3-4013-8015-c16422e2cc3d@gmail.com>

Paul, Page 2 of the manual in the B295B link states that the LMU6 
assembly is for use with AC. It likely will not be suitable for DC with 
the peripheral items provided with it. So 50/60 CPS is good. I would 
check for leakage and ground the base for safety. The targets on the fan 
allow various ways to adjust speed.
73, John W1AN


On 02-Jan-24 14:07, pbirkel at gmail.com wrote:
>
> As related in another thread I have acquired a BRPE21 with a governed 
> LMU6 motor unit.
>
> The motor plate states: 5PA66HV2A / Type: PA / V: 115 / CY: 60/50 / 
> WD: SERIES
>
> Bulletin 295B ?Technical Manual for Motor Units? 
> (https://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/tty/295B-6504.pdf) states that the 
> LMU6 series (governed) motor is AC/DC.? I infer that if I simply 
> supply 120VAC 60Hz the governing components/circuitry will have no 
> adverse effect, but that?s not made clear anywhere.? The curved-blade 
> power socket seems to suggest that this installation was intended for 
> DC operation, so I?m reticent to simply supply AC ?and see what 
> happens?.? (Shaft turns freely and depressing the four spring-ball 
> oiling ports appears to indicate the presence of sufficient 
> light-weight oil, so other than modest cleaning the motor assembly 
> appears to be ready-to-go.)
>
> In the TM, Figure 5 ?Typical Series (Governed) Motor Unit Schematic 
> Diagram? (PDF page 16 of 52) is the applicable schematic; there?s no 
> indication of polarization at the LINE connection.? Is this correct 
> for 115 VDC operation (either orientation is fine)?
>
> Can I simply power the LMU6 with 60 Hz, 120 VAC without any changes?
>
> - paul
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home:http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help:http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post:mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> This list hosted by:http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list:http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered tow1an.dxusa at gmail.com
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From w9ddd at tapr.org  Tue Jan  2 11:43:15 2024
From: w9ddd at tapr.org (John, W9DDD)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2024 10:43:15 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] Auction Western Union Items in OH January 4
In-Reply-To: <bf4dcdaa-91eb-b930-907c-18f71d3b9f88@earthlink.net>
References: <d42554cb-2bf9-4f67-8896-137bff827323@gmail.com>
	<43e82c96-e9ff-7365-a57a-dcde26570232@tapr.org>
	<bf4dcdaa-91eb-b930-907c-18f71d3b9f88@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <0c6eafbd-395c-1087-52c5-14246ecf9e00@tapr.org>

I noticed that in one description they mention having two print 
hammers.? Maybe one for each half of the typebox?

---
----
You said "tomorrow" yesterday.

The above comments or recommendations are SWAG. Use at your own risk.
John, W9DDD

On 1/2/2024 7:39 AM, Jim Haynes wrote:
>
>
>
> On Mon, 1 Jan 2024, John, W9DDD wrote:
>
>> Item 2517 looks like the one in
>>
>> https://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/tty/jh/bsps/bsp/570series/573-107-100TC.pdf 
>>
>>
>> 28 Tape Printer Set (stock ticker)
>>
> If that's what it is, I would say that was Teletype's last successful
> all-mechanical product.? While it is called Model 28 it actually uses
> Model 37 technology.? I guess AT&T wanted to keep the Model 37 number
> clean forthe then-forthcoming Model 37 page printer set.? The previous
> stock ticker line was the 1930s black cube typewheel machine. These
> were too slow for the volume of stock trades around 1960, so the NYSE
> commissioned Teletype to produce a new model that was 50% faster.
>
> Model 37 used an aggregate-motion mechanism that did not return the
> type box to a home position between characters, so it looked very lazy
> in operation.? It ran at 900 characters/minute.
>


From jhhaynes at earthlink.net  Tue Jan  2 13:14:52 2024
From: jhhaynes at earthlink.net (Jim Haynes)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2024 12:14:52 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [GreenKeys] Auction Western Union Items in OH January 4
In-Reply-To: <0c6eafbd-395c-1087-52c5-14246ecf9e00@tapr.org>
References: <d42554cb-2bf9-4f67-8896-137bff827323@gmail.com>
	<43e82c96-e9ff-7365-a57a-dcde26570232@tapr.org>
	<bf4dcdaa-91eb-b930-907c-18f71d3b9f88@earthlink.net>
	<0c6eafbd-395c-1087-52c5-14246ecf9e00@tapr.org>
Message-ID: <398013d4-385c-fe3-11e1-27c2637b3cf0@earthlink.net>

On Tue, 2 Jan 2024, John, W9DDD wrote:

> I noticed that in one description they mention having two print hammers.? 
> Maybe one for each half of the typebox?
>
I don't remember the machine at all well, but that sounds reasonable
considering that the traditional ticker tape prints in two rows.
And I don't remember how the black cube ticker does that either.

From jhhaynes at earthlink.net  Tue Jan  2 13:20:53 2024
From: jhhaynes at earthlink.net (Jim Haynes)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2024 12:20:53 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [GreenKeys] Auction Western Union Items in OH January 4
In-Reply-To: <398013d4-385c-fe3-11e1-27c2637b3cf0@earthlink.net>
References: <d42554cb-2bf9-4f67-8896-137bff827323@gmail.com>
	<43e82c96-e9ff-7365-a57a-dcde26570232@tapr.org>
	<bf4dcdaa-91eb-b930-907c-18f71d3b9f88@earthlink.net>
	<0c6eafbd-395c-1087-52c5-14246ecf9e00@tapr.org>
	<398013d4-385c-fe3-11e1-27c2637b3cf0@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <ab513ecc-ac46-c1e-e587-fa9d2595f9a@earthlink.net>

There was I guess a prototype of that ticker operating in the R&D
lobby at Teletype Skokie, long before the NYSE got delivery of the
new tickers and cut over to them.  So R&D people wanting to check
on their investments could watch the market in their spare time; but
I guess the real reason for the machine was to see what if anything
would break down before the machines were committed to production.
It was geared down to run at the old speed of 600 char/min.

 	---

 	"Ya can argue all ya wanna, but it's dif'rent than it was."
 	"No it ain't! No it ain't!  But ya gotta know the territory."
 		Meredith Willson, The Music Man

From mooreericnyc at gmail.com  Tue Jan  2 13:21:24 2024
From: mooreericnyc at gmail.com (Eric Moore)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2024 12:21:24 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] Model 33 with my PDP-11
Message-ID: <CAE1er56yErVsib15wF8TWRNzQVNECnrFREBVYhoz9ftxu7EiGQ@mail.gmail.com>

https://youtu.be/frMwsDTjmAs

The line feed either slips or fails to feed, I am hoping another clean and
lube helps.

-Eric
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From lawrenceg94 at gmail.com  Tue Jan  2 13:53:52 2024
From: lawrenceg94 at gmail.com (Lawrence Godek)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2024 11:53:52 -0700
Subject: [GreenKeys] Auction Western Union Items in OH January 4
In-Reply-To: <4e3945329e466a6526f8200b8ae17ff4.squirrel@hallikainen.org>
References: <d42554cb-2bf9-4f67-8896-137bff827323@gmail.com>
	<c3f6d5b9-e2fa-4cbe-a473-819c56516da0@gmail.com>
	<4e3945329e466a6526f8200b8ae17ff4.squirrel@hallikainen.org>
Message-ID: <686fd821-5523-4255-a454-1259fb7ba765@Gmail.com>

Did any of you read the notes at the bottom of the page concerning the 
packing, handling and shipping costs?

I saw a couple items i would like to have but what they charge for 
inhouse packing, handling and then shipping costs!? I guess i better pass.

some nice items there though.

Larry W0OGH


On 1/1/2024 7:53 PM, Harold Hallikainen via GreenKeys wrote:
> Very nice!
>
> I used to have a Weston meter like the one at
> https://www.appletreeauction.com/auction-lot/western-union-items_FFB448583B
> . It weighed 10 pounds.
>
> On the Instructograph tapes, my brother just bought me an Instructograph
> machine he found in Utah. I should have it in a week or so.
>
> Harold
> https://w6iwi.org
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to lawrenceg94 at gmail.com

From harold at w6iwi.org  Tue Jan  2 14:04:56 2024
From: harold at w6iwi.org (Harold Hallikainen)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2024 12:04:56 -0700
Subject: [GreenKeys] Auction Western Union Items in OH January 4
In-Reply-To: <ab513ecc-ac46-c1e-e587-fa9d2595f9a@earthlink.net>
References: <d42554cb-2bf9-4f67-8896-137bff827323@gmail.com>
	<43e82c96-e9ff-7365-a57a-dcde26570232@tapr.org>
	<bf4dcdaa-91eb-b930-907c-18f71d3b9f88@earthlink.net>
	<0c6eafbd-395c-1087-52c5-14246ecf9e00@tapr.org>
	<398013d4-385c-fe3-11e1-27c2637b3cf0@earthlink.net>
	<ab513ecc-ac46-c1e-e587-fa9d2595f9a@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <fac5b634dc23617ba0efeac6d7019457.squirrel@hallikainen.org>

That was a pretty amazing machine. I was surprised to read that it could
print on clear tape which would then run through a projector. In the
manual, it's projecting onto a rear projection screen. Pretty clever (and
complicated).

Harold


From elb at kb8ojh.net  Tue Jan  2 15:01:19 2024
From: elb at kb8ojh.net (Ethan Blanton)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2024 15:01:19 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Model 33 with my PDP-11
In-Reply-To: <CAE1er56yErVsib15wF8TWRNzQVNECnrFREBVYhoz9ftxu7EiGQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE1er56yErVsib15wF8TWRNzQVNECnrFREBVYhoz9ftxu7EiGQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ZZRrj_i3KuSkcQKa@colt.lan>

Eric Moore wrote:
> https://youtu.be/frMwsDTjmAs
> 
> The line feed either slips or fails to feed, I am hoping another clean and
> lube helps.

Gorgeous!

I have a couple of 11/34s and a Model 35 ASR, so I can't run BSD, but
I've banged out Hello World on V6.  I was very surprised to learn
things I had somehow never heard, despite having devoured all I could
read at the time; for example, I knew that pipe had been ^ because of
the lack of | on the Teletype, but I had no idea it didn't have curly
brackets!  Seeing int main \( was a real surprise and joy.

I was also very surprised how similar 2.11 BSD, or even V7 Unix, is to
a "modern" Unix system.  V6 feels very familiar, but in a
mirror-universe way.  Enough things don't work quite as expected to be
continually surprising until you spend some time with it.  (On the
other hand, it's perfectly happy with an all caps terminal with very
little fuss!)  Some day I will get my hands on a 22-bit PDP-11, but in
the meantime I have the PiDP-11 to tide me over.

This video does make me feel wonder and love, but in the PDP-11 world,
as in the Teletype world, in my experience there is very little
silence to be found.  ;-)

Ethan

From djones at k6yic.com  Tue Jan  2 15:27:25 2024
From: djones at k6yic.com (Daniel Jones)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2024 12:27:25 -0800
Subject: [GreenKeys] Model 33 with my PDP-11
In-Reply-To: <ZZRrj_i3KuSkcQKa@colt.lan>
References: <ZZRrj_i3KuSkcQKa@colt.lan>
Message-ID: <F9CBBBCE-C949-404D-9C37-40C20DC7F302@k6yic.com>

Very cool video,

I never played with any PDPs but did have the chance to play with VAX stuff in the Navy.  I have a couple MicroVax 3100s and Vaxstation that I play around with at home using a VT420.  

I would love to get my hands on a small vax server like a 4000 or something a tad earlier.  

I did subscribe to your channel also.  

Daniel 

www.K6YIC.com
DJones at K6YIC.com
HH#11973

> On Jan 2, 2024, at 12:02, Ethan Blanton via GreenKeys <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net> wrote:
> 
> ?Eric Moore wrote:
>> https://youtu.be/frMwsDTjmAs
>> 
>> The line feed either slips or fails to feed, I am hoping another clean and
>> lube helps.
> 
> Gorgeous!
> 
> I have a couple of 11/34s and a Model 35 ASR, so I can't run BSD, but
> I've banged out Hello World on V6.  I was very surprised to learn
> things I had somehow never heard, despite having devoured all I could
> read at the time; for example, I knew that pipe had been ^ because of
> the lack of | on the Teletype, but I had no idea it didn't have curly
> brackets!  Seeing int main \( was a real surprise and joy.
> 
> I was also very surprised how similar 2.11 BSD, or even V7 Unix, is to
> a "modern" Unix system.  V6 feels very familiar, but in a
> mirror-universe way.  Enough things don't work quite as expected to be
> continually surprising until you spend some time with it.  (On the
> other hand, it's perfectly happy with an all caps terminal with very
> little fuss!)  Some day I will get my hands on a 22-bit PDP-11, but in
> the meantime I have the PiDP-11 to tide me over.
> 
> This video does make me feel wonder and love, but in the PDP-11 world,
> as in the Teletype world, in my experience there is very little
> silence to be found.  ;-)
> 
> Ethan
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> 
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to djones at k6yic.com


From harold at w6iwi.org  Tue Jan  2 16:08:01 2024
From: harold at w6iwi.org (Harold Hallikainen)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2024 14:08:01 -0700
Subject: [GreenKeys] Model 33 with my PDP-11
In-Reply-To: <ZZRrj_i3KuSkcQKa@colt.lan>
References: <CAE1er56yErVsib15wF8TWRNzQVNECnrFREBVYhoz9ftxu7EiGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<ZZRrj_i3KuSkcQKa@colt.lan>
Message-ID: <3216e8d2fd6d7d0adf858dc7574aac67.squirrel@hallikainen.org>



On Tue, January 2, 2024 1:01 pm, Ethan Blanton via GreenKeys wrote:
> Eric Moore wrote:
>> https://youtu.be/frMwsDTjmAs
>>
>> The line feed either slips or fails to feed, I am hoping another clean
>> and
>> lube helps.
>
 Really nice! I ran the 33 on a PDP-8 with punched tape. The first "glass
terminal" I ran was the Lear Siegler ADM-1A. I did some stuff with the
LSI-11, programming in assembly. I really liked the instruction set of
the PDP/LSI-11. As I recall, the instructions were like the following:

3 bit octal instruction
3 bit octal source register
3 bit octal source mode
3 bit octal destination register
3 bit octal destination mode

Modes were something like register direct (read or write the register),
register indirect (read or write memory address in the register), register
indirect postincrement (read or write memory address in register, then
increment the register), register indirect preincrement (same as previous,
but increment register before using it as memory address), and pre and
post decrement register indirect.

Register 6 was the stack pointer. The stack would build down using
predecrement and post increment.

Register 7 was the program counter. A really clever way of handling
literal arguments was used. The source was register 7 post increment. The
CPU read the instruction and incremented the program counter (just as it
would for any instruction, to point to the next). The contents of memory
now pointed to (the literal argument) were then moved to the destination.
Then, since this was post decrement, the program counter would be
incremented again to point to the next instruction.

I always thought this was EXTREMELY clever!

Thanks for posting the video!

Harold
https://w6iwi.org


From w1an.dxusa at gmail.com  Tue Jan  2 16:29:49 2024
From: w1an.dxusa at gmail.com (John Spigel)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2024 21:29:49 +0000
Subject: [GreenKeys] Auction Western Union Items in OH January 4
In-Reply-To: <fac5b634dc23617ba0efeac6d7019457.squirrel@hallikainen.org>
References: <d42554cb-2bf9-4f67-8896-137bff827323@gmail.com>
	<43e82c96-e9ff-7365-a57a-dcde26570232@tapr.org>
	<bf4dcdaa-91eb-b930-907c-18f71d3b9f88@earthlink.net>
	<0c6eafbd-395c-1087-52c5-14246ecf9e00@tapr.org>
	<398013d4-385c-fe3-11e1-27c2637b3cf0@earthlink.net>
	<ab513ecc-ac46-c1e-e587-fa9d2595f9a@earthlink.net>
	<fac5b634dc23617ba0efeac6d7019457.squirrel@hallikainen.org>
Message-ID: <4922bb60-cdcf-43f5-9871-14f2318bd4ab@gmail.com>

Harold, yes, lots of ingenuity. I could picture that machine all cleaned 
up sitting in the lobby of a wall street brokerage ready to run off a PC 
in a back room. Big $$$ considering what old ticker tape machines from 
the 1890s sell for today. It's going to go cheap....

73, John W1AN

On 02-Jan-24 19:04, Harold Hallikainen via GreenKeys wrote:
> That was a pretty amazing machine. I was surprised to read that it could
> print on clear tape which would then run through a projector. In the
> manual, it's projecting onto a rear projection screen. Pretty clever (and
> complicated).
>
> Harold
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to w1an.dxusa at gmail.com


From w2hx at w2hx.com  Tue Jan  2 17:21:21 2024
From: w2hx at w2hx.com (W2HX)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2024 22:21:21 +0000
Subject: [GreenKeys] Auction Western Union Items in OH January 4
In-Reply-To: <4922bb60-cdcf-43f5-9871-14f2318bd4ab@gmail.com>
References: <d42554cb-2bf9-4f67-8896-137bff827323@gmail.com>
	<43e82c96-e9ff-7365-a57a-dcde26570232@tapr.org>
	<bf4dcdaa-91eb-b930-907c-18f71d3b9f88@earthlink.net>
	<0c6eafbd-395c-1087-52c5-14246ecf9e00@tapr.org>
	<398013d4-385c-fe3-11e1-27c2637b3cf0@earthlink.net>
	<ab513ecc-ac46-c1e-e587-fa9d2595f9a@earthlink.net>
	<fac5b634dc23617ba0efeac6d7019457.squirrel@hallikainen.org>
	<4922bb60-cdcf-43f5-9871-14f2318bd4ab@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BL1PR12MB5269D4E2F750AD69D3C6D16DB561A@BL1PR12MB5269.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

I have one of these

https://www.appletreeauction.com/auction-lot/vintage-western-union-teletype_38A497898C

but missing the cover. I got it from Jack W2TTY/WA2HWJ. Never did anything with it. It is still in the garage. Needs some good cleaning. 


73 Eugene W2HX
My Youtube Channel:?https://www.youtube.com/@w2hx/videos
 

-----Original Message-----
From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net <greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net> On Behalf Of John Spigel
Sent: Tuesday, January 2, 2024 4:30 PM
To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Auction Western Union Items in OH January 4

Harold, yes, lots of ingenuity. I could picture that machine all cleaned up sitting in the lobby of a wall street brokerage ready to run off a PC in a back room. Big $$$ considering what old ticker tape machines from the 1890s sell for today. It's going to go cheap....

73, John W1AN

On 02-Jan-24 19:04, Harold Hallikainen via GreenKeys wrote:
> That was a pretty amazing machine. I was surprised to read that it 
> could print on clear tape which would then run through a projector. In 
> the manual, it's projecting onto a rear projection screen. Pretty 
> clever (and complicated).
>
> Harold
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: 
>>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: 
>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: 
>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: 
>>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email 
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to 
> w1an.dxusa at gmail.com

______________________________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net

>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: 
>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: 
>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: 
>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: 
>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to w2hx at w2hx.com

From dave at horsfall.org  Tue Jan  2 17:32:23 2024
From: dave at horsfall.org (Dave Horsfall)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2024 09:32:23 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [GreenKeys] Model 33 with my PDP-11
In-Reply-To: <3216e8d2fd6d7d0adf858dc7574aac67.squirrel@hallikainen.org>
References: <CAE1er56yErVsib15wF8TWRNzQVNECnrFREBVYhoz9ftxu7EiGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<ZZRrj_i3KuSkcQKa@colt.lan>
	<3216e8d2fd6d7d0adf858dc7574aac67.squirrel@hallikainen.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2401030927470.9101@aneurin.horsfall.org>

On Tue, 2 Jan 2024, Harold Hallikainen via GreenKeys wrote:

> 3 bit octal instruction

Etc.

It varied depending upon the address mode; see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDP-11_architecture

'Twas a wonderful machine; that's how I got to learn Unix in the 70s.

-- Dave (vk2kfu)

From jeffg at junknet.net  Tue Jan  2 18:50:55 2024
From: jeffg at junknet.net (Jeff G)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2024 18:50:55 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Lorenz Machine posted on Reddit
Message-ID: <CAPK6WsczO1fgm1keEa4wyrG3iCi4NzFEbwJ=tjH8YMEV+zQUaQ@mail.gmail.com>

Figured I'd share this - while there is a Teletype reddit on Reddit, its
not very active, but then you get stuff like this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Teletype/comments/18x11f3/german_lorenz_15_sn_450949_presentation_and/

Jeff KC3GJX
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From navy.radio at gmail.com  Wed Jan  3 09:32:57 2024
From: navy.radio at gmail.com (Nick England)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2024 09:32:57 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] AN/UGC-74(A) teleprinter
In-Reply-To: <DM8P220MB0472152B3F918214BBD68A62B860A@DM8P220MB0472.NAMP220.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <DM8P220MB0472152B3F918214BBD68A62B860A@DM8P220MB0472.NAMP220.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <CAB55hNe0w4yaEZZ+FW35E_Bry6pt44JZ9bJZs7TqaHnsM8DHqw@mail.gmail.com>

Ray is a regular on the 850 shift net, sometimes running in the field from
his vintage Army M151 jeep

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Ray Fantini <RAFANTINI at salisbury.edu>
Date: Tue, Jan 2, 2024 at 10:08 PM

Ok, another opportunity for everyone else?s to show me just how much
smarter then me they are, usually that?s just left up to the wife to do.

For a year or two now I have been playing around with a UGC-74 (A)
teleprinter. To start off with I have used B and C variants before and
don?t like them because its beyond my capabilities to make a ribbon
cartridge work in them so I want to use a old A variant because that uses a
typewriter ribbon.  Well aware of the melting rollers and have addressed
all that thru hours of cleaning already. Several months ago did a bunch of
work on this machine. Had a blown switching device on the power supply card
and changed that and also discovered that many of the big electrolytic
capacitors on the power supply card were open and replaced them. At that
point I had a working power supply card providing all the voltages that
were called for on the schematic, all within limits with no noise or
anything like that.

The problem then was that the drum would not spin up; also faults would not
clear when you sent a reset. The lights on the front will come on and when
you hit the reset button they would go out but as soon as you release the
button would come right back on. I know if I drove the ?Drum Stop? line low
to the power supply card the card would then start the drum spinning but as
soon as I removed the jumper it would spin back down. I can also see the
pulses from the optical pick ups on TP-2 and 3 on the A4 printer controller
card when its spinning. All three voltages on the A2 memory card test
points are good so assuming that the A1, A2, A3 and A4 card are all getting
power.

This project got pushed off to the side for a while because I thought that
maybe the CPU(A1) or the Print Control (A4) were defective but was loaned a
set of cards and swapping both make no difference. The manual alludes to
that when you turn on the machine the CPU (A1) enters a state where it
lights all the bulbs on the front along with sending a message to the Print
Controller (A4) and upon receipt of that message sends a signal back to the
CPU telling it to turn off the lights. Think it may also start the drum
motor at that time too. But that never happens.

Besides the power supplies and motor drives nothing else sappers to work
the manual line feed button works and am wondering if that need
participation of the CPU because it?s a multi pulse stepper motor? That may
indicate that the CPU (A1) is up but just not getting any love from the
Print Controller (A4)?

Open for any suggestions; do have other machines that I am using but maybe
because of brain damage or what ever want to have a UGC-74 to pair with
MD-522 and the GRC-106 in the mutt.



Ray F/KA3EKH


__._,_._,_
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From kwlueck at swbell.net  Thu Jan  4 10:40:52 2024
From: kwlueck at swbell.net (Keith Lueck)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2024 15:40:52 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [GreenKeys] somewhat OT, but...
References: <2084717858.6611132.1704382852609.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2084717858.6611132.1704382852609@mail.yahoo.com>

This place was not too far from my home.? I stopped in 10 or more years ago and asked the guy if he knew anything about teletypes, and he said no.? It's too bad he doesn't "do the internet" b/c I bet his business would've boomed, and he might've more easily found someone to take it over.? My alma mater is in Rolla and I go back there to visit occasionally; it might be interesting to stop by and see the museum where these have been re-homed.? I wonder if I could get those folks interested in TTY's?? <g>
Keith
IT'S THE LAST OF ITS TYPE


| 
| 
| 
|  |  |

 |

 |
| 
|  | 
IT'S THE LAST OF ITS TYPE

HANNAH WYMAN St. Louis PostDispatch

JONES TYPEWRITER CO.
 |

 |

 |



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From lawrenceg94 at gmail.com  Thu Jan  4 11:54:15 2024
From: lawrenceg94 at gmail.com (Lawrence Godek)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2024 09:54:15 -0700
Subject: [GreenKeys] msg's
Message-ID: <c4ca70ec-649f-4dad-89e3-a357f97a8f12@Gmail.com>

the last few msg's i have sent end up in the moderators box. It's 
getting frustrating when i try to contribute something related to the 
conversation but end up there and then never show up on the list.

Why is this?

Larry W0OGH



From harold at w6iwi.org  Thu Jan  4 12:42:22 2024
From: harold at w6iwi.org (Harold Hallikainen)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2024 10:42:22 -0700
Subject: [GreenKeys] somewhat OT, but...
In-Reply-To: <2084717858.6611132.1704382852609@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <2084717858.6611132.1704382852609.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<2084717858.6611132.1704382852609@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <766bfa4ba507706a3e8914f635b04d8e.squirrel@hallikainen.org>

The article mentions Tom Hanks. A very nice movie by him is California
Typewriter ( https://californiatypewritermovie.com/ ). It concentrates on
Berkeley Typewriter ( https://berkeleytypewriter.com/ ).

The San Francisco airport has rotating exhibits in its terminal building.
I was there one time when there was a typewriter exhibit. Another time was
a radio exhibit.

Harold
https://w6iwi.org



From tlake at twcny.rr.com  Tue Jan  2 00:53:49 2024
From: tlake at twcny.rr.com (Tom Lake)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2024 00:53:49 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Interface ASR33 to Linux serial port
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAEIv7Z/V4xxNu3wc77DZsnUBAMO2jhD3dRHOtM0AqgC7tuYAAAAAAA4AABAAAABU+c2pH24oQaHAAIvnJ1adAQAAAAA=@twcny.rr.com>

I have an Ubuntu 23.10 system with agetty running on its eight serial ports.
I can hook up most terminals to the ports and login to a bash shell.

When I try to use a Teletype ASR 33, however, I get the login prompt and I
answer enter the username. If I hit Return, nothing happens. If I hot Line
Feed, the Password prompt is shown.

After I enter the password (all uppercase) Incorrect password is shown.

 

Since the prompts are displayed properly, I'm pretty sure the baud rate, BPS
and stop bits are correct. What else can I check?

 

I start agetty this way:

 

agetty  -L -U ttyUSB0 110 tty

 

The -L means it's a dedicated line, not dial-in. The -U means the terminal
is uppercase only and some upper/lowercase conversions should be made.

The port is a USB to serial port (ttyUSB0), baud is 110.

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From theodric at gmail.com  Tue Jan  2 07:10:46 2024
From: theodric at gmail.com (Jeremy Sharp)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2024 12:10:46 +0000
Subject: [GreenKeys] FS: Siemens T-37 (Netherlands)
Message-ID: <CACYBCoo6Uej=FHYuCs0HRJGcf_QKV61w5sVCwSnkFJtZ1eFHbA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everyone,

Long-time listener, first-time caller...

I've decided to let go of my T-37 in a wooden tabletop cabinet rather than
move it to Ireland and risk it being damaged. The telex is in great shape,
and its wooden cabinet is in fairly good order bar a few surface scratches
and a small missing chunk. It was modified by the previous owner to use an
ASR-33-derived papertape reader, which is included. It has a
Dutch-localized keyboard, and is located in the south-eastern Netherlands.
I am personally in country until the 8th, but I may be able to work out
collection after that date with the person in whose house it is stored, or
else later on when I return to move another load.

I cannot remember what I paid for it 13 years ago, and I have no idea what
the going rate is, so I've listed it on the Dutch 'Marktplaats' site for
open bidding, and will try to respect the market. You'll find it there, or
you are welcome to contact me off-list for photos.

It's a piece of Dutch history, and it would be ideal if it stayed here, but
is open to anyone who wants to come pick it up!

Jeremy
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From lawrenceg94 at gmail.com  Thu Jan  4 11:50:51 2024
From: lawrenceg94 at gmail.com (Lawrence Godek)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2024 09:50:51 -0700
Subject: [GreenKeys] Typewriter shop (OT of course)
In-Reply-To: <2084717858.6611132.1704382852609@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <2084717858.6611132.1704382852609.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<2084717858.6611132.1704382852609@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5e549fe5-2a4c-41e0-9e07-a23e5a348feb@Gmail.com>

I have an old Remington Noiseless sitting over here on one of my shelves 
that i saved from the dump.? Needs repair or a good cleaning.? No place 
out here in this part of the country to get anything done with it.? In a 
few years like me, it will probably go to the dump!


On 1/4/2024 8:40 AM, Keith Lueck wrote:
> This place was not too far from my home.? I stopped in 10 or more 
> years ago and asked the guy if he knew anything about teletypes, and 
> he said no.? It's too bad he doesn't "do the internet" b/c I bet his 
> business would've boomed, and he might've more easily found someone to 
> take it over.? My alma mater is in Rolla and I go back there to visit 
> occasionally; it might be interesting to stop by and see the museum 
> where these have been re-homed.? I wonder if I could get those folks 
> interested in TTY's?? <g>
>
> Keith
>
> IT'S THE LAST OF ITS TYPE 
> <https://www.stltoday.com/its-the-last-of-its-type/article_bab5fd2c-efda-52c4-a5c3-31a8d87ec402.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=email&utm_campaign=user-share>
>
>
> 	
>
>
> 	
>
>
>     IT'S THE LAST OF ITS TYPE
>
> HANNAH WYMAN St. Louis PostDispatch
>
> JONES TYPEWRITER CO.
>
> <https://www.stltoday.com/its-the-last-of-its-type/article_bab5fd2c-efda-52c4-a5c3-31a8d87ec402.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=email&utm_campaign=user-share>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home:http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help:http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post:mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> This list hosted by:http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list:http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered tolawrenceg94 at gmail.com
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From mooreericnyc at gmail.com  Thu Jan  4 16:01:47 2024
From: mooreericnyc at gmail.com (Eric Moore)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2024 15:01:47 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] Interface ASR33 to Linux serial port
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAEIv7Z/V4xxNu3wc77DZsnUBAMO2jhD3dRHOtM0AqgC7tuYAAAAAAA4AABAAAABU+c2pH24oQaHAAIvnJ1adAQAAAAA=@twcny.rr.com>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAEIv7Z/V4xxNu3wc77DZsnUBAMO2jhD3dRHOtM0AqgC7tuYAAAAAAA4AABAAAABU+c2pH24oQaHAAIvnJ1adAQAAAAA=@twcny.rr.com>
Message-ID: <CAE1er55S+Qehtv8dJM5uE3iTV_8pVcXXmEUqZ=E_1RhrdZQwMg@mail.gmail.com>

Linux agetty is a mess with teletypes.

What RS232 adapter are you using?

There are a couple troubleshooting options:

1) easiest, turn on incorrect password logging and see what password is
being received

2) bit harder, use a protocol analyzer to see what is happening on the line

7 bit can be an issue, agetty may not support all flags in ubuntu latest,
all kinds of fun issues I have seen.

I generally use socat nowadays instead of real getty with linux. Much
easier to set the options with stty then connect the teletype to bash or
whatever command (telnet) directly.

-Eric

On Thu, Jan 4, 2024, 2:52?PM Tom Lake <tlake at twcny.rr.com> wrote:

> I have an Ubuntu 23.10 system with agetty running on its eight serial
> ports. I can hook up most terminals to the ports and login to a bash shell.
>
> When I try to use a Teletype ASR 33, however, I get the login prompt and I
> answer enter the username. If I hit Return, nothing happens. If I hot Line
> Feed, the Password prompt is shown.
>
> After I enter the password (all uppercase) Incorrect password is shown.
>
>
>
> Since the prompts are displayed properly, I?m pretty sure the baud rate,
> BPS and stop bits are correct. What else can I check?
>
>
>
> I start agetty this way:
>
>
>
> agetty  -L -U ttyUSB0 110 tty
>
>
>
> The -L means it?s a dedicated line, not dial-in. The -U means the terminal
> is uppercase only and some upper/lowercase conversions should be made.
>
> The port is a USB to serial port (ttyUSB0), baud is 110.
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to mooreericnyc at gmail.com
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From douglas-w-jones at uiowa.edu  Thu Jan  4 16:06:05 2024
From: douglas-w-jones at uiowa.edu (Jones, Douglas W)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2024 21:06:05 +0000
Subject: [GreenKeys] FS: Siemens T-37 (Netherlands)
In-Reply-To: <CACYBCoo6Uej=FHYuCs0HRJGcf_QKV61w5sVCwSnkFJtZ1eFHbA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACYBCoo6Uej=FHYuCs0HRJGcf_QKV61w5sVCwSnkFJtZ1eFHbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DM6PR04MB50034EC8C1D21DBDD084660FA8672@DM6PR04MB5003.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>

From: Jeremy Sharp [theodric at gmail.com] -- Tuesday, January 2, 2024 6:10 AM

> I've decided to let go of my T-37 in a wooden tabletop cabinet ... so I've listed it on the Dutch 'Marktplaats' site

Here's the link:
-- https://www.marktplaats.nl/v/telecommunicatie/zenders-en-ontvangers/m2064298692-siemens-t-37-telex-teletype-met-houten-kast

I'm not bidding on it, but it looks like a nice machine.  The wooden case is cute.  Does the cover over the keyboard lock with that key, or is that the key to open the top?  Also, is the cover over the keyboard like the cover on a roll-top-desk, or is it rigid, or is it missing?  Note that the Free University of Amsterdam has, or used to have, a nice computing museum.  They might be interested.  They have a flexowriter, some Teletypes, and a fair number of antique computers.  This would not be a bad fit there.

          Doug Jones

From duncanancy at earthlink.net  Thu Jan  4 17:05:10 2024
From: duncanancy at earthlink.net (Duncan Brown)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2024 17:05:10 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] FS: Siemens T-37 (Netherlands)
In-Reply-To: <DM6PR04MB50034EC8C1D21DBDD084660FA8672@DM6PR04MB5003.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CACYBCoo6Uej=FHYuCs0HRJGcf_QKV61w5sVCwSnkFJtZ1eFHbA@mail.gmail.com>
	<DM6PR04MB50034EC8C1D21DBDD084660FA8672@DM6PR04MB5003.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <173f42b3-198d-4c42-920f-4be71b727845@earthlink.net>

We have a T 37H in a desk at the AWA Museum.? There is a "roll-top" that 
covers the keyboard and can be locked, to prevent unauthorized use.? The 
unit is connected to I-Telex.




Ours has a horizontal slit cut in the wood to the right of the keyboard.

I notice that the one for sale in the Netherlands has the same slit 
(picture 3)

Does anyone know the purpose of that slit?

Thanks,

Duncan
K2OEQ


On 04-Jan-24 16:06, Jones, Douglas W wrote:
> From: Jeremy Sharp [theodric at gmail.com] -- Tuesday, January 2, 2024 6:10 AM
>
>> I've decided to let go of my T-37 in a wooden tabletop cabinet ... so I've listed it on the Dutch 'Marktplaats' site
> Here's the link:
> -- https://www.marktplaats.nl/v/telecommunicatie/zenders-en-ontvangers/m2064298692-siemens-t-37-telex-teletype-met-houten-kast
>
> I'm not bidding on it, but it looks like a nice machine.  The wooden case is cute.  Does the cover over the keyboard lock with that key, or is that the key to open the top?  Also, is the cover over the keyboard like the cover on a roll-top-desk, or is it rigid, or is it missing?  Note that the Free University of Amsterdam has, or used to have, a nice computing museum.  They might be interested.  They have a flexowriter, some Teletypes, and a fair number of antique computers.  This would not be a bad fit there.
>
>            Doug Jones
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home:http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help:http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post:mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> This list hosted by:http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list:http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered toduncanancy at earthlink.net
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From w2hx at w2hx.com  Thu Jan  4 17:21:53 2024
From: w2hx at w2hx.com (W2HX)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2024 22:21:53 +0000
Subject: [GreenKeys] FS: Siemens T-37 (Netherlands)
In-Reply-To: <173f42b3-198d-4c42-920f-4be71b727845@earthlink.net>
References: <CACYBCoo6Uej=FHYuCs0HRJGcf_QKV61w5sVCwSnkFJtZ1eFHbA@mail.gmail.com>
	<DM6PR04MB50034EC8C1D21DBDD084660FA8672@DM6PR04MB5003.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
	<173f42b3-198d-4c42-920f-4be71b727845@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BL1PR12MB52698951CA1F16D76206C74AB5672@BL1PR12MB5269.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

> Does anyone know the purpose of that slit?
Just a guess. But could it be to hold some tape waiting to be loaded into a TD? Does it have a TD (or equivalent?)


73 Eugene W2HX
My Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@w2hx/videos

From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net <greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net> On Behalf Of Duncan Brown
Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2024 5:05 PM
To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] FS: Siemens T-37 (Netherlands)

We have a T 37H in a desk at the AWA Museum.  There is a "roll-top" that covers the keyboard and can be locked, to prevent unauthorized use.  The unit is connected to I-Telex.


[cid:image001.jpg at 01DA3F32.820D10E0]

Ours has a horizontal slit cut in the wood to the right of the keyboard.

I notice that the one for sale in the Netherlands has the same slit (picture 3)

Does anyone know the purpose of that slit?

Thanks,

Duncan
K2OEQ

On 04-Jan-24 16:06, Jones, Douglas W wrote:

From: Jeremy Sharp [theodric at gmail.com<mailto:theodric at gmail.com>] -- Tuesday, January 2, 2024 6:10 AM



I've decided to let go of my T-37 in a wooden tabletop cabinet ... so I've listed it on the Dutch 'Marktplaats' site



Here's the link:

-- https://www.marktplaats.nl/v/telecommunicatie/zenders-en-ontvangers/m2064298692-siemens-t-37-telex-teletype-met-houten-kast



I'm not bidding on it, but it looks like a nice machine.  The wooden case is cute.  Does the cover over the keyboard lock with that key, or is that the key to open the top?  Also, is the cover over the keyboard like the cover on a roll-top-desk, or is it rigid, or is it missing?  Note that the Free University of Amsterdam has, or used to have, a nice computing museum.  They might be interested.  They have a flexowriter, some Teletypes, and a fair number of antique computers.  This would not be a bad fit there.



          Doug Jones

______________________________________________________________

GreenKeys mailing list

Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm

Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net



Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch

2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/

1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html

Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html



This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net

Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Message delivered to duncanancy at earthlink.net<mailto:duncanancy at earthlink.net>

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From vk2bea at gmail.com  Thu Jan  4 17:32:46 2024
From: vk2bea at gmail.com (Michael Katzmann)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2024 17:32:46 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Interface ASR33 to Linux serial port
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAEIv7Z/V4xxNu3wc77DZsnUBAMO2jhD3dRHOtM0AqgC7tuYAAAAAAA4AABAAAABU+c2pH24oQaHAAIvnJ1adAQAAAAA=@twcny.rr.com>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAEIv7Z/V4xxNu3wc77DZsnUBAMO2jhD3dRHOtM0AqgC7tuYAAAAAAA4AABAAAABU+c2pH24oQaHAAIvnJ1adAQAAAAA=@twcny.rr.com>
Message-ID: <CAMyt5OQ+VkqhWYdUspu7uWtA0W80f-eJO97WXjbTBM3ioWLRrA@mail.gmail.com>

I've got a PiDP11 with a 33 attached.
Usually the 33 is driven off the PDP11/70 SIMH emulator.
I tried running the agetty command as you showed and it looks like it
worked (except bash is confused for some reason)
The OS is Raspbian (32 bit) but its pretty close to Ubuntu (both based on
Debian). I favour Fedora myself!

Michael


[image: tty33.jpg]

On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 3:52?PM Tom Lake <tlake at twcny.rr.com> wrote:

> I have an Ubuntu 23.10 system with agetty running on its eight serial
> ports. I can hook up most terminals to the ports and login to a bash shell.
>
> When I try to use a Teletype ASR 33, however, I get the login prompt and I
> answer enter the username. If I hit Return, nothing happens. If I hot Line
> Feed, the Password prompt is shown.
>
> After I enter the password (all uppercase) Incorrect password is shown.
>
>
>
> Since the prompts are displayed properly, I?m pretty sure the baud rate,
> BPS and stop bits are correct. What else can I check?
>
>
>
> I start agetty this way:
>
>
>
> agetty  -L -U ttyUSB0 110 tty
>
>
>
> The -L means it?s a dedicated line, not dial-in. The -U means the terminal
> is uppercase only and some upper/lowercase conversions should be made.
>
> The port is a USB to serial port (ttyUSB0), baud is 110.
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to vk2bea at gmail.com
>


-- 
   |\      _,,,---,,_             Michael Katzmann
   /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_         NV3Z / VK2BEA / G4NYV
  |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'
 '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)
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From jeffg at junknet.net  Thu Jan  4 17:43:25 2024
From: jeffg at junknet.net (Jeff G)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2024 17:43:25 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] somewhat OT, but...
In-Reply-To: <2084717858.6611132.1704382852609@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <2084717858.6611132.1704382852609.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<2084717858.6611132.1704382852609@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAPK6WseY6vCfW5ee7B1R1cPq3b5aULn2b=3gccBbW7db1baYHA@mail.gmail.com>

We have a newer shop in Philly - found out about them at a "Science after
hours" event at the Franklin Institute science museum, where they had
typewriters on display. I gave them my IBM Model 1.

https://www.phillytypewriter.com/

Jeff

On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 10:41?AM Keith Lueck <kwlueck at swbell.net> wrote:

> This place was not too far from my home.  I stopped in 10 or more years
> ago and asked the guy if he knew anything about teletypes, and he said no.
> It's too bad he doesn't "do the internet" b/c I bet his business would've
> boomed, and he might've more easily found someone to take it over.  My alma
> mater is in Rolla and I go back there to visit occasionally; it might be
> interesting to stop by and see the museum where these have been re-homed.
> I wonder if I could get those folks interested in TTY's?  <g>
>
> Keith
>
> IT'S THE LAST OF ITS TYPE
> <https://www.stltoday.com/its-the-last-of-its-type/article_bab5fd2c-efda-52c4-a5c3-31a8d87ec402.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=email&utm_campaign=user-share>
>
> IT'S THE LAST OF ITS TYPE
>
> HANNAH WYMAN St. Louis PostDispatch
>
> JONES TYPEWRITER CO.
>
> <https://www.stltoday.com/its-the-last-of-its-type/article_bab5fd2c-efda-52c4-a5c3-31a8d87ec402.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=email&utm_campaign=user-share>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to jeffg at junknet.net
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From david.corbin at dynconcepts.com  Thu Jan  4 17:44:42 2024
From: david.corbin at dynconcepts.com (David V. Corbin)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2024 22:44:42 +0000
Subject: [GreenKeys] Interface ASR33 to Linux serial port
In-Reply-To: <CAMyt5OQ+VkqhWYdUspu7uWtA0W80f-eJO97WXjbTBM3ioWLRrA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAEIv7Z/V4xxNu3wc77DZsnUBAMO2jhD3dRHOtM0AqgC7tuYAAAAAAA4AABAAAABU+c2pH24oQaHAAIvnJ1adAQAAAAA=@twcny.rr.com>
	<CAMyt5OQ+VkqhWYdUspu7uWtA0W80f-eJO97WXjbTBM3ioWLRrA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SJ0P222MB0363D5B2C01C84E2BE800E7F9E672@SJ0P222MB0363.NAMP222.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

What are you using to go from the pie to the current loop is a commercial converter or did you build one yourself.

Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
________________________________
From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net <greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net> on behalf of Michael Katzmann <vk2bea at gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2024 5:32:46 PM
To: tlake at twcny.rr.com <tlake at twcny.rr.com>
Cc: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Interface ASR33 to Linux serial port

I've got a PiDP11 with a 33 attached.
Usually the 33 is driven off the PDP11/70 SIMH emulator.
I tried running the agetty command as you showed and it looks like it worked (except bash is confused for some reason)
The OS is Raspbian (32 bit) but its pretty close to Ubuntu (both based on Debian). I favour Fedora myself!

Michael


[tty33.jpg]

On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 3:52?PM Tom Lake <tlake at twcny.rr.com<mailto:tlake at twcny.rr.com>> wrote:

I have an Ubuntu 23.10 system with agetty running on its eight serial ports. I can hook up most terminals to the ports and login to a bash shell.

When I try to use a Teletype ASR 33, however, I get the login prompt and I answer enter the username. If I hit Return, nothing happens. If I hot Line Feed, the Password prompt is shown.

After I enter the password (all uppercase) Incorrect password is shown.



Since the prompts are displayed properly, I?m pretty sure the baud rate, BPS and stop bits are correct. What else can I check?



I start agetty this way:



agetty  -L -U ttyUSB0 110 tty



The -L means it?s a dedicated line, not dial-in. The -U means the terminal is uppercase only and some upper/lowercase conversions should be made.

The port is a USB to serial port (ttyUSB0), baud is 110.

______________________________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net<mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net>

>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to vk2bea at gmail.com<mailto:vk2bea at gmail.com>


--
   |\      _,,,---,,_             Michael Katzmann
   /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_         NV3Z / VK2BEA / G4NYV
  |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'
 '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)

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From vk2bea at gmail.com  Thu Jan  4 17:51:17 2024
From: vk2bea at gmail.com (Michael Katzmann)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2024 17:51:17 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Interface ASR33 to Linux serial port
In-Reply-To: <SJ0P222MB0363D5B2C01C84E2BE800E7F9E672@SJ0P222MB0363.NAMP222.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAEIv7Z/V4xxNu3wc77DZsnUBAMO2jhD3dRHOtM0AqgC7tuYAAAAAAA4AABAAAABU+c2pH24oQaHAAIvnJ1adAQAAAAA=@twcny.rr.com>
	<CAMyt5OQ+VkqhWYdUspu7uWtA0W80f-eJO97WXjbTBM3ioWLRrA@mail.gmail.com>
	<SJ0P222MB0363D5B2C01C84E2BE800E7F9E672@SJ0P222MB0363.NAMP222.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <CAMyt5OTZRTtnYpYaFTz5-hifpKkxLpOpxif70Umk_ChntW_BTg@mail.gmail.com>

I'm not sure if this question is directed at me or Tom ... but FWIW I'm
using this ... https://deramp.com/tty_adapter.html
Michael

On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 5:44?PM David V. Corbin <david.corbin at dynconcepts.com>
wrote:

> What are you using to go from the pie to the current loop is a commercial
> converter or did you build one yourself.
>
> Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net <
> greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net> on behalf of Michael Katzmann <
> vk2bea at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 4, 2024 5:32:46 PM
> *To:* tlake at twcny.rr.com <tlake at twcny.rr.com>
> *Cc:* greenkeys at mailman.qth.net <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [GreenKeys] Interface ASR33 to Linux serial port
>
> I've got a PiDP11 with a 33 attached.
> Usually the 33 is driven off the PDP11/70 SIMH emulator.
> I tried running the agetty command as you showed and it looks like it
> worked (except bash is confused for some reason)
> The OS is Raspbian (32 bit) but its pretty close to Ubuntu (both based on
> Debian). I favour Fedora myself!
>
> Michael
>
>
> [image: tty33.jpg]
>
> On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 3:52?PM Tom Lake <tlake at twcny.rr.com> wrote:
>
> I have an Ubuntu 23.10 system with agetty running on its eight serial
> ports. I can hook up most terminals to the ports and login to a bash shell.
>
> When I try to use a Teletype ASR 33, however, I get the login prompt and I
> answer enter the username. If I hit Return, nothing happens. If I hot Line
> Feed, the Password prompt is shown.
>
> After I enter the password (all uppercase) Incorrect password is shown.
>
>
>
> Since the prompts are displayed properly, I?m pretty sure the baud rate,
> BPS and stop bits are correct. What else can I check?
>
>
>
> I start agetty this way:
>
>
>
> agetty  -L -U ttyUSB0 110 tty
>
>
>
> The -L means it?s a dedicated line, not dial-in. The -U means the terminal
> is uppercase only and some upper/lowercase conversions should be made.
>
> The port is a USB to serial port (ttyUSB0), baud is 110.
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to vk2bea at gmail.com
>
>
>
> --
>    |\      _,,,---,,_             Michael Katzmann
>    /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_         NV3Z / VK2BEA / G4NYV
>   |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'
>  '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)
>
>

-- 
   |\      _,,,---,,_             Michael Katzmann
   /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_         NV3Z / VK2BEA / G4NYV
  |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'
 '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)
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From jhhaynes at earthlink.net  Thu Jan  4 23:10:13 2024
From: jhhaynes at earthlink.net (Jim Haynes)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2024 22:10:13 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [GreenKeys] Interface ASR33 to Linux serial port
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAEIv7Z/V4xxNu3wc77DZsnUBAMO2jhD3dRHOtM0AqgC7tuYAAAAAAA4AABAAAABU+c2pH24oQaHAAIvnJ1adAQAAAAA=@twcny.rr.com>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAEIv7Z/V4xxNu3wc77DZsnUBAMO2jhD3dRHOtM0AqgC7tuYAAAAAAA4AABAAAABU+c2pH24oQaHAAIvnJ1adAQAAAAA=@twcny.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3f6e2776-2887-b623-82bb-c6369d1480ff@earthlink.net>

A few years back John Whitney connected a couple of 33s to a Linux
box so his boys could experience time-shared computing as we did it
back in the 1970s.  I remember he designed and built a special piece
of hardware for the purpose, but don't remember what it did.  Perhaps
converted TTY uppercase to lowercase.

John was on this group at one time, don't know if he still reads it.

 	---

 	"Ya can argue all ya wanna, but it's dif'rent than it was."
 	"No it ain't! No it ain't!  But ya gotta know the territory."
 		Meredith Willson, The Music Man

From w1an.dxusa at gmail.com  Sun Jan  7 12:29:10 2024
From: w1an.dxusa at gmail.com (John Spigel)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2024 17:29:10 +0000
Subject: [GreenKeys] Auction Western Union Items in OH January 4
In-Reply-To: <BL1PR12MB5269D4E2F750AD69D3C6D16DB561A@BL1PR12MB5269.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
References: <d42554cb-2bf9-4f67-8896-137bff827323@gmail.com>
	<43e82c96-e9ff-7365-a57a-dcde26570232@tapr.org>
	<bf4dcdaa-91eb-b930-907c-18f71d3b9f88@earthlink.net>
	<0c6eafbd-395c-1087-52c5-14246ecf9e00@tapr.org>
	<398013d4-385c-fe3-11e1-27c2637b3cf0@earthlink.net>
	<ab513ecc-ac46-c1e-e587-fa9d2595f9a@earthlink.net>
	<fac5b634dc23617ba0efeac6d7019457.squirrel@hallikainen.org>
	<4922bb60-cdcf-43f5-9871-14f2318bd4ab@gmail.com>
	<BL1PR12MB5269D4E2F750AD69D3C6D16DB561A@BL1PR12MB5269.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <92ff0b76-99c5-4107-82b0-1a87a797f38d@gmail.com>

The auction is over. The nice WU teletype stock printer with its 
matching pedestal/stand went for $25. Much of the other items went for 
between $5 and $50. There were many nice bargain lots for collectors. 
Most notably was the vintage morse tape printer that went for $3000. 
Hope it goes to a museum for all to enjoy.

In another auction I saw a complete 14 reperf with KB on a stand go for 
$5. Still had the tape on it.

Some good stuff is out there.

73, John W1AN

On 02-Jan-24 22:21, W2HX wrote:
> I have one of these
>
> https://www.appletreeauction.com/auction-lot/vintage-western-union-teletype_38A497898C
>
> but missing the cover. I got it from Jack W2TTY/WA2HWJ. Never did anything with it. It is still in the garage. Needs some good cleaning.
>
>
> 73 Eugene W2HX
> My Youtube Channel:?https://www.youtube.com/@w2hx/videos
>   
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net <greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net> On Behalf Of John Spigel
> Sent: Tuesday, January 2, 2024 4:30 PM
> To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Auction Western Union Items in OH January 4
>
> Harold, yes, lots of ingenuity. I could picture that machine all cleaned up sitting in the lobby of a wall street brokerage ready to run off a PC in a back room. Big $$$ considering what old ticker tape machines from the 1890s sell for today. It's going to go cheap....
>
> 73, John W1AN
>
> On 02-Jan-24 19:04, Harold Hallikainen via GreenKeys wrote:
>> That was a pretty amazing machine. I was surprised to read that it
>> could print on clear tape which would then run through a projector. In
>> the manual, it's projecting onto a rear projection screen. Pretty
>> clever (and complicated).
>>
>> Harold
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> GreenKeys mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>
>>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
>> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
>> w1an.dxusa at gmail.com
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to w2hx at w2hx.com


From harold at w6iwi.org  Sun Jan  7 17:14:15 2024
From: harold at w6iwi.org (Harold Hallikainen)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2024 15:14:15 -0700
Subject: [GreenKeys] DSP TU Bootloader
Message-ID: <2ceb854deff731735351ed96f603db69.squirrel@hallikainen.org>

After MUCH struggle, I have the bootloader for the DSP TU working! See
https://w6iwi.org/rtty/DspTU2/index.html#bootloader .

The next work on it will be the WiFi module so it can receive ITTY without
an external stream receiving computer.

Harold
https://w6iwi.org




-- 
Not sent from an iPhone.

From radioengr at gmail.com  Sun Jan  7 17:59:15 2024
From: radioengr at gmail.com (Rob Doyle)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2024 15:59:15 -0700
Subject: [GreenKeys] 'Message Center' in AT&T Long Lines hardened bunker.
Message-ID: <e6b11d6d-c570-49c2-a3ca-7e9110b1af8d@gmail.com>

I saw this the other day...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmm-epqkmoQ

If you're impatient, you can skip to 22:29.

Rob


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From w2hx at w2hx.com  Sun Jan  7 19:57:26 2024
From: w2hx at w2hx.com (W2HX)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2024 00:57:26 +0000
Subject: [GreenKeys] 'Message Center' in AT&T Long Lines hardened bunker.
In-Reply-To: <e6b11d6d-c570-49c2-a3ca-7e9110b1af8d@gmail.com>
References: <e6b11d6d-c570-49c2-a3ca-7e9110b1af8d@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BL1PR12MB5269564E25D17B186D966B1BB56B2@BL1PR12MB5269.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

For tty?s look at about 22 minutes in. MESSAGE CENTER!


73 Eugene W2HX
My Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@w2hx/videos

From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net <greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net> On Behalf Of Rob Doyle
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2024 5:59 PM
To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: [GreenKeys] 'Message Center' in AT&T Long Lines hardened bunker.


I saw this the other day...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmm-epqkmoQ

If you're impatient, you can skip to 22:29.

Rob




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From hanyou at xsmail.com  Sun Jan  7 20:32:03 2024
From: hanyou at xsmail.com (E.)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2024 19:32:03 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] 'Message Center' in AT&T Long Lines hardened bunker.
In-Reply-To: <BL1PR12MB5269564E25D17B186D966B1BB56B2@BL1PR12MB5269.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
References: <e6b11d6d-c570-49c2-a3ca-7e9110b1af8d@gmail.com>
	<BL1PR12MB5269564E25D17B186D966B1BB56B2@BL1PR12MB5269.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <ECA67233-277B-45D2-8C99-648199DEFADE@xsmail.com>


If anyone has $7/8M, the one up in Lyons, Neb. is for sale!


> On Jan 7, 2024, at 6:57?PM, W2HX <w2hx at w2hx.com> wrote:
> 
> For tty?s look at about 22 minutes in. MESSAGE CENTER!
>   73 Eugene W2HX
> My Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@w2hx/videos
>  From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net <greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net> On Behalf Of Rob Doyle
> Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2024 5:59 PM
> To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
> Subject: [GreenKeys] 'Message Center' in AT&T Long Lines hardened bunker.
>  I saw this the other day...
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmm-epqkmoQ
> If you're impatient, you can skip to 22:29.
> Rob

From hanyou at xsmail.com  Sun Jan  7 20:33:08 2024
From: hanyou at xsmail.com (E.)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2024 19:33:08 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] Fwd: 'Message Center' in AT&T Long Lines hardened
	bunker.
References: <ECA67233-277B-45D2-8C99-648199DEFADE@xsmail.com>
Message-ID: <56930C06-E1DB-40CF-B922-329E7AAAC9AE@xsmail.com>


?forgot the link:
https://www.investorsomaha.com/property-search/?propertyId=1258390-sale


> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> From: "E." <hanyou at xsmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] 'Message Center' in AT&T Long Lines hardened bunker.
> Date: January 7, 2024 at 7:32:03?PM CST
> To: steve bennett via GreenKeys <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
> 
> 
> If anyone has $7/8M, the one up in Lyons, Neb. is for sale!
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From douglas-w-jones at uiowa.edu  Sun Jan  7 22:21:47 2024
From: douglas-w-jones at uiowa.edu (Jones, Douglas W)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2024 03:21:47 +0000
Subject: [GreenKeys] 'Message Center' in AT&T Long Lines hardened bunker.
In-Reply-To: <BL1PR12MB5269564E25D17B186D966B1BB56B2@BL1PR12MB5269.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
References: <e6b11d6d-c570-49c2-a3ca-7e9110b1af8d@gmail.com>
	<BL1PR12MB5269564E25D17B186D966B1BB56B2@BL1PR12MB5269.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <BN7PR04MB403688877FF73736141716D2A86B2@BN7PR04MB4036.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>

From: Rob Doyle -- Sunday, January 7, 2024 5:59 PM

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmm-epqkmoQ
> If you're impatient, you can skip to 22:29.

I watched most of it.  It was a fascinating walk through.  And when they got to the TTY room, I chuckled when I noticed the DECwriter at the end of the room.  Not a TTY, dot-matrix print at 30 chars per second, 8-bit ASCII, while the TTYs in th room all looked like Baudot machines.  The sheer volume of decomissioned in place equipment was impressive, plus the ever present hum of a live installation hiding among all the decommissioned stuff.

          Doug

From gblock at sbcglobal.net  Sun Jan  7 22:31:23 2024
From: gblock at sbcglobal.net (Gerry Block)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2024 19:31:23 -0800
Subject: [GreenKeys] DSP TU Bootloader
In-Reply-To: <2ceb854deff731735351ed96f603db69.squirrel@hallikainen.org>
References: <2ceb854deff731735351ed96f603db69.squirrel@hallikainen.org>
Message-ID: <FF91036A-9C83-47EB-BE0C-08403A64E1FD@sbcglobal.net>

..always the hardest job in any project....
congratulations
gerry
ad6 my
Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 7, 2024, at 2:15?PM, Harold Hallikainen via GreenKeys <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net> wrote:
> 
> ?After MUCH struggle, I have the bootloader for the DSP TU working! See
> https://w6iwi.org/rtty/DspTU2/index.html#bootloader .
> 
> The next work on it will be the WiFi module so it can receive ITTY without
> an external stream receiving computer.
> 
> Harold
> https://w6iwi.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Not sent from an iPhone.
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> 
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to gblock at sbcglobal.net


From kn4ucl at gmail.com  Mon Jan  8 09:31:29 2024
From: kn4ucl at gmail.com (Andy KN4UCL)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2024 09:31:29 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Fwd: 'Message Center' in AT&T Long Lines hardened
	bunker.
In-Reply-To: <56930C06-E1DB-40CF-B922-329E7AAAC9AE@xsmail.com>
References: <56930C06-E1DB-40CF-B922-329E7AAAC9AE@xsmail.com>
Message-ID: <FCD21936-9CD1-49FB-9FC5-7B5E42C22BDE@gmail.com>

I lived that video. None of the usual YouTube chitchat?

> On Jan 7, 2024, at 8:33 PM, E. <hanyou at xsmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> 
> ?forgot the link:
> https://www.investorsomaha.com/property-search/?propertyId=1258390-sale
> 
> 
>> Begin forwarded message:
>> 
>> From: "E." <hanyou at xsmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] 'Message Center' in AT&T Long Lines hardened bunker.
>> Date: January 7, 2024 at 7:32:03?PM CST
>> To: steve bennett via GreenKeys <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
>> 
>> 
>> If anyone has $7/8M, the one up in Lyons, Neb. is for sale!
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> 
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to kn4ucl at gmail.com
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From harold at w6iwi.org  Mon Jan  8 15:11:25 2024
From: harold at w6iwi.org (Harold Hallikainen)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2024 13:11:25 -0700
Subject: [GreenKeys] An Engineer's Memory of Teletype Corporation
Message-ID: <6b56f706c219c56b932ecf428be9b03d.squirrel@hallikainen.org>

Last night, I again ran across Jim Hayne's paper "First-Hand:Chad is Our
Most Important Product: An Engineer's Memory of Teletype Corporation" (
https://ethw.org/First-Hand:Chad_is_Our_Most_Important_Product:_An_Engineer%27s_Memory_of_Teletype_Corporation
) and spend the evening and this morning reading it.

Fascinating history! Thank you for writing it, Jim!

Harold
https://w6iwi.org/rtty



-- 
Not sent from an iPhone.

From tlake at twcny.rr.com  Sat Jan  6 11:09:36 2024
From: tlake at twcny.rr.com (Tom Lake)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2024 11:09:36 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Interface ASR33 to Linux serial port
In-Reply-To: <SJ0P222MB0363D5B2C01C84E2BE800E7F9E672@SJ0P222MB0363.NAMP222.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAEIv7Z/V4xxNu3wc77DZsnUBAMO2jhD3dRHOtM0AqgC7tuYAAAAAAA4AABAAAABU+c2pH24oQaHAAIvnJ1adAQAAAAA=@twcny.rr.com>
	<CAMyt5OQ+VkqhWYdUspu7uWtA0W80f-eJO97WXjbTBM3ioWLRrA@mail.gmail.com>
	<SJ0P222MB0363D5B2C01C84E2BE800E7F9E672@SJ0P222MB0363.NAMP222.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAEIv7Z/V4xxNu3wc77DZsnUBAMO2jhD3dRHOtM0AqgC7tuYAAAAAAA4AABAAAAClrzekMFOER7I88EIJEVOsAQAAAAA=@twcny.rr.com>

I have an RS-232 to 20mA current loop converter that fits inside the TTY?s case. It plugs into one of the gang connectors in the TTY.



 

From: David V. Corbin <david.corbin at dynconcepts.com> 
Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2024 5:45 PM
To: Michael Katzmann <vk2bea at gmail.com>; tlake at twcny.rr.com
Cc: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Interface ASR33 to Linux serial port

 

What are you using to go from the pie to the current loop is a commercial converter or did you build one yourself.

 

Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef> 

  _____  

From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net <mailto:greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net>  <greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net <mailto:greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net> > on behalf of Michael Katzmann <vk2bea at gmail.com <mailto:vk2bea at gmail.com> >
Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2024 5:32:46 PM
To: tlake at twcny.rr.com <mailto:tlake at twcny.rr.com>  <tlake at twcny.rr.com <mailto:tlake at twcny.rr.com> >
Cc: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net <mailto:greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>  <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net <mailto:greenkeys at mailman.qth.net> >
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Interface ASR33 to Linux serial port 

 

I've got a PiDP11 with a 33 attached. 

Usually the 33 is driven off the PDP11/70 SIMH emulator.

I tried running the agetty command as you showed and it looks like it worked (except bash is confused for some reason)

The OS is Raspbian (32 bit) but its pretty close to Ubuntu (both based on Debian). I favour Fedora myself!

 

Michael

 

 



 

On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 3:52?PM Tom Lake <tlake at twcny.rr.com <mailto:tlake at twcny.rr.com> > wrote:

I have an Ubuntu 23.10 system with agetty running on its eight serial ports. I can hook up most terminals to the ports and login to a bash shell.

When I try to use a Teletype ASR 33, however, I get the login prompt and I answer enter the username. If I hit Return, nothing happens. If I hot Line Feed, the Password prompt is shown.

After I enter the password (all uppercase) Incorrect password is shown.

 

Since the prompts are displayed properly, I?m pretty sure the baud rate, BPS and stop bits are correct. What else can I check?

 

I start agetty this way:

 

agetty  -L -U ttyUSB0 110 tty

 

The -L means it?s a dedicated line, not dial-in. The -U means the terminal is uppercase only and some upper/lowercase conversions should be made.

The port is a USB to serial port (ttyUSB0), baud is 110.

______________________________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net <mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net> 

>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to vk2bea at gmail.com <mailto:vk2bea at gmail.com> 




 

-- 

   |\      _,,,---,,_             Michael Katzmann
   /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_         NV3Z / VK2BEA / G4NYV
  |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-' 
 '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)

 

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From tlake at twcny.rr.com  Sat Jan  6 11:11:15 2024
From: tlake at twcny.rr.com (Tom Lake)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2024 11:11:15 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Interface ASR33 to Linux serial port
In-Reply-To: <CAMyt5OQ+VkqhWYdUspu7uWtA0W80f-eJO97WXjbTBM3ioWLRrA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAEIv7Z/V4xxNu3wc77DZsnUBAMO2jhD3dRHOtM0AqgC7tuYAAAAAAA4AABAAAABU+c2pH24oQaHAAIvnJ1adAQAAAAA=@twcny.rr.com>
	<CAMyt5OQ+VkqhWYdUspu7uWtA0W80f-eJO97WXjbTBM3ioWLRrA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAEIv7Z/V4xxNu3wc77DZsnUBAMO2jhD3dRHOtM0AqgC7tuYAAAAAAA4AABAAAACGqtdWztK3Rpv7qL7+Nm3bAQAAAAA=@twcny.rr.com>

I have a PiDP-11 as well and the Teletype works fine with it. I replace the PiDP-11 with the Pi 5 using the same RS-232 converter and I can?t log into Linux with the Teletype.

 

From: Michael Katzmann <vk2bea at gmail.com> 
Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2024 5:33 PM
To: tlake at twcny.rr.com
Cc: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Interface ASR33 to Linux serial port

 

I've got a PiDP11 with a 33 attached. 

Usually the 33 is driven off the PDP11/70 SIMH emulator.

I tried running the agetty command as you showed and it looks like it worked (except bash is confused for some reason)

The OS is Raspbian (32 bit) but its pretty close to Ubuntu (both based on Debian). I favour Fedora myself!

 

Michael

 

 



 

On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 3:52?PM Tom Lake <tlake at twcny.rr.com <mailto:tlake at twcny.rr.com> > wrote:

I have an Ubuntu 23.10 system with agetty running on its eight serial ports. I can hook up most terminals to the ports and login to a bash shell.

When I try to use a Teletype ASR 33, however, I get the login prompt and I answer enter the username. If I hit Return, nothing happens. If I hot Line Feed, the Password prompt is shown.

After I enter the password (all uppercase) Incorrect password is shown.

 

Since the prompts are displayed properly, I?m pretty sure the baud rate, BPS and stop bits are correct. What else can I check?

 

I start agetty this way:

 

agetty  -L -U ttyUSB0 110 tty

 

The -L means it?s a dedicated line, not dial-in. The -U means the terminal is uppercase only and some upper/lowercase conversions should be made.

The port is a USB to serial port (ttyUSB0), baud is 110.

______________________________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net <mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net> 

>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to vk2bea at gmail.com <mailto:vk2bea at gmail.com> 




 

-- 

   |\      _,,,---,,_             Michael Katzmann
   /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_         NV3Z / VK2BEA / G4NYV
  |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-' 
 '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)

 

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From chuck at rehor.com  Tue Jan  9 12:08:44 2024
From: chuck at rehor.com (Chuck Rehor)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2024 11:08:44 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] Interface ASR33 to Linux serial port
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAEIv7Z/V4xxNu3wc77DZsnUBAMO2jhD3dRHOtM0AqgC7tuYAAAAAAA4AABAAAACGqtdWztK3Rpv7qL7+Nm3bAQAAAAA=@twcny.rr.com>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAEIv7Z/V4xxNu3wc77DZsnUBAMO2jhD3dRHOtM0AqgC7tuYAAAAAAA4AABAAAABU+c2pH24oQaHAAIvnJ1adAQAAAAA=@twcny.rr.com>
	<CAMyt5OQ+VkqhWYdUspu7uWtA0W80f-eJO97WXjbTBM3ioWLRrA@mail.gmail.com>
	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAEIv7Z/V4xxNu3wc77DZsnUBAMO2jhD3dRHOtM0AqgC7tuYAAAAAAA4AABAAAACGqtdWztK3Rpv7qL7+Nm3bAQAAAAA=@twcny.rr.com>
Message-ID: <CAHxEihYyZJXy2f+XY8F-p3VTshJERWvTZ+g2F-FwyPgoKeyxaQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi GreenKeyers,



In the past for my RS-232 projects when I?ve needed serial communications,
I ran into unexplained problems with USB-to-RS232-Serial converters
incorporating the Prolific chipset. Since Prolific has become so, well,
prolific, it has a huge market share, so foreign companies have knocked off
the Prolific chip and flooded the market with counterfeit chips marked
Prolific, but are NOT Prolific brand.  These counterfeit chips have flooded
the electronics parts supply chain, and therefore, have been inadvertently
used in even legitimate companies' USB adapters (even name-brand
companies).  To protect themselves, Prolific finally changed their drivers
so that their drivers are on the lookout for bogus chips. I think those
Prolific drivers are part of the Microsoft Plug-n-Play devices.  If the new
Windows driver finds a counterfeit chip being used on the system, the
driver will give a warning and disable the device by overwriting the driver
on your system. With the RPi running its version of Linux, I?ve scratched
my head trying to get gettys to run right because it might show the login
prompt, but either not accept characters, or it accepts characters but
would not give me a Password prompt, so I couldn't get logged in. Searching
on the internet, I saw other people had problems with the Linux drivers too.



So I?ve given up on Prolific and only use devices which use the FTDI
chipset. If a device doesn't specifically say it uses the FTDI chipset,
chances are it doesn't, so I don?t bother with it.



Recently I?ve had great luck with Gearmo 4-Port RS232 to USB FTDI chip
Adapter w/RX and TX Status LEDs (
https://www.amazon.com/Gearmo-Port-RS232-Adapter-Status/dp/B08P24ZQ1B
$44). It comes in a version that doesn't have the status LEDs for a few
dollars cheaper, but LEDs are well-worth it when trying to debug something.



If you only need one RS-232 port, I can recommend Gearmo's USB to Serial
RS-232 Adapter with LED Indicators FTDI Chipset (
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AHYJWWG   $23).



The only thing I can't verify is if it goes down to 110 baud (I don't have
a 110-baud device in the same location).  I did connect Ports 1 & 2
together (via a null modem connector) and opened two putty sessions set for
110 baud, 8 bits, 1 stop, no parity, xon/xoff, and it seemed to work (I
could send characters back and forth between windows).  I used putty
version 0.78 on Windows 11 and a command line of: "C:\Chuck> putty -serial
COM5 -sercfg 110,8,1,n,X" because I could never correctly configure putty
with its GUI.  However, when I opened a putty session for 300 baud and kept
the other at 110, I expected I couldn?t communicate between them, but lo
and behold, it worked anyway, so I?m not sure it actually went down to 110
and 300 baud.  Maybe it defaults to a certain speed if someone tries to
give it a speed it can't handle.  Like I said, I don?t have a 110 baud
terminal in the same location so I couldn?t really verify 110 or 300 baud
operation, but sometime I will and report back.



Hope the above helps.



Chuck
W9CFR

On Mon, Jan 8, 2024 at 2:36?PM Tom Lake <tlake at twcny.rr.com> wrote:

> I have a PiDP-11 as well and the Teletype works fine with it. I replace
> the PiDP-11 with the Pi 5 using the same RS-232 converter and I can?t log
> into Linux with the Teletype.
>
>
>
> *From:* Michael Katzmann <vk2bea at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 4, 2024 5:33 PM
> *To:* tlake at twcny.rr.com
> *Cc:* greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
> *Subject:* Re: [GreenKeys] Interface ASR33 to Linux serial port
>
>
>
> I've got a PiDP11 with a 33 attached.
>
> Usually the 33 is driven off the PDP11/70 SIMH emulator.
>
> I tried running the agetty command as you showed and it looks like it
> worked (except bash is confused for some reason)
>
> The OS is Raspbian (32 bit) but its pretty close to Ubuntu (both based on
> Debian). I favour Fedora myself!
>
>
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 3:52?PM Tom Lake <tlake at twcny.rr.com> wrote:
>
> I have an Ubuntu 23.10 system with agetty running on its eight serial
> ports. I can hook up most terminals to the ports and login to a bash shell.
>
> When I try to use a Teletype ASR 33, however, I get the login prompt and I
> answer enter the username. If I hit Return, nothing happens. If I hot Line
> Feed, the Password prompt is shown.
>
> After I enter the password (all uppercase) Incorrect password is shown.
>
>
>
> Since the prompts are displayed properly, I?m pretty sure the baud rate,
> BPS and stop bits are correct. What else can I check?
>
>
>
> I start agetty this way:
>
>
>
> agetty  -L -U ttyUSB0 110 tty
>
>
>
> The -L means it?s a dedicated line, not dial-in. The -U means the terminal
> is uppercase only and some upper/lowercase conversions should be made.
>
> The port is a USB to serial port (ttyUSB0), baud is 110.
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to vk2bea at gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>    |\      _,,,---,,_             Michael Katzmann
>    /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_         NV3Z / VK2BEA / G4NYV
>   |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'
>  '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to chuck at rehor.com
>
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From mooreericnyc at gmail.com  Tue Jan  9 12:34:41 2024
From: mooreericnyc at gmail.com (Eric Moore)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2024 11:34:41 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] Interface ASR33 to Linux serial port
In-Reply-To: <CAHxEihYyZJXy2f+XY8F-p3VTshJERWvTZ+g2F-FwyPgoKeyxaQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAEIv7Z/V4xxNu3wc77DZsnUBAMO2jhD3dRHOtM0AqgC7tuYAAAAAAA4AABAAAABU+c2pH24oQaHAAIvnJ1adAQAAAAA=@twcny.rr.com>
	<CAMyt5OQ+VkqhWYdUspu7uWtA0W80f-eJO97WXjbTBM3ioWLRrA@mail.gmail.com>
	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAEIv7Z/V4xxNu3wc77DZsnUBAMO2jhD3dRHOtM0AqgC7tuYAAAAAAA4AABAAAACGqtdWztK3Rpv7qL7+Nm3bAQAAAAA=@twcny.rr.com>
	<CAHxEihYyZJXy2f+XY8F-p3VTshJERWvTZ+g2F-FwyPgoKeyxaQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAE1er56LmTZRYeosidUp00hX0xtpN3i=Vryz6UB=H2kz6QnvSw@mail.gmail.com>

DriverGenius 4 Port USB to Serial RS232 DB9 Adapter Coverter with 12 X LEDs
- Win11 & Mac (4XRS232, Metal) https://a.co/d/6xXQ0fy

This is what I use, definitely does 110 baud on all 4 ports, should do
lower.

Uses the PL2303 I think, the FTDI I have had issues at low speeds.

-Eric


On Tue, Jan 9, 2024, 11:13?AM Chuck Rehor <chuck at rehor.com> wrote:

> Hi GreenKeyers,
>
>
>
> In the past for my RS-232 projects when I?ve needed serial communications,
> I ran into unexplained problems with USB-to-RS232-Serial converters
> incorporating the Prolific chipset. Since Prolific has become so, well,
> prolific, it has a huge market share, so foreign companies have knocked off
> the Prolific chip and flooded the market with counterfeit chips marked
> Prolific, but are NOT Prolific brand.  These counterfeit chips have flooded
> the electronics parts supply chain, and therefore, have been inadvertently
> used in even legitimate companies' USB adapters (even name-brand
> companies).  To protect themselves, Prolific finally changed their drivers
> so that their drivers are on the lookout for bogus chips. I think those
> Prolific drivers are part of the Microsoft Plug-n-Play devices.  If the new
> Windows driver finds a counterfeit chip being used on the system, the
> driver will give a warning and disable the device by overwriting the driver
> on your system. With the RPi running its version of Linux, I?ve scratched
> my head trying to get gettys to run right because it might show the login
> prompt, but either not accept characters, or it accepts characters but
> would not give me a Password prompt, so I couldn't get logged in. Searching
> on the internet, I saw other people had problems with the Linux drivers too.
>
>
>
> So I?ve given up on Prolific and only use devices which use the FTDI
> chipset. If a device doesn't specifically say it uses the FTDI chipset,
> chances are it doesn't, so I don?t bother with it.
>
>
>
> Recently I?ve had great luck with Gearmo 4-Port RS232 to USB FTDI chip
> Adapter w/RX and TX Status LEDs (
> https://www.amazon.com/Gearmo-Port-RS232-Adapter-Status/dp/B08P24ZQ1B
> $44). It comes in a version that doesn't have the status LEDs for a few
> dollars cheaper, but LEDs are well-worth it when trying to debug something.
>
>
>
> If you only need one RS-232 port, I can recommend Gearmo's USB to Serial
> RS-232 Adapter with LED Indicators FTDI Chipset (
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AHYJWWG   $23).
>
>
>
> The only thing I can't verify is if it goes down to 110 baud (I don't have
> a 110-baud device in the same location).  I did connect Ports 1 & 2
> together (via a null modem connector) and opened two putty sessions set for
> 110 baud, 8 bits, 1 stop, no parity, xon/xoff, and it seemed to work (I
> could send characters back and forth between windows).  I used putty
> version 0.78 on Windows 11 and a command line of: "C:\Chuck> putty
> -serial COM5 -sercfg 110,8,1,n,X" because I could never correctly configure
> putty with its GUI.  However, when I opened a putty session for 300 baud
> and kept the other at 110, I expected I couldn?t communicate between them,
> but lo and behold, it worked anyway, so I?m not sure it actually went down
> to 110 and 300 baud.  Maybe it defaults to a certain speed if someone tries
> to give it a speed it can't handle.  Like I said, I don?t have a 110 baud
> terminal in the same location so I couldn?t really verify 110 or 300 baud
> operation, but sometime I will and report back.
>
>
>
> Hope the above helps.
>
>
>
> Chuck
> W9CFR
>
> On Mon, Jan 8, 2024 at 2:36?PM Tom Lake <tlake at twcny.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> I have a PiDP-11 as well and the Teletype works fine with it. I replace
>> the PiDP-11 with the Pi 5 using the same RS-232 converter and I can?t log
>> into Linux with the Teletype.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Michael Katzmann <vk2bea at gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 4, 2024 5:33 PM
>> *To:* tlake at twcny.rr.com
>> *Cc:* greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
>> *Subject:* Re: [GreenKeys] Interface ASR33 to Linux serial port
>>
>>
>>
>> I've got a PiDP11 with a 33 attached.
>>
>> Usually the 33 is driven off the PDP11/70 SIMH emulator.
>>
>> I tried running the agetty command as you showed and it looks like it
>> worked (except bash is confused for some reason)
>>
>> The OS is Raspbian (32 bit) but its pretty close to Ubuntu (both based on
>> Debian). I favour Fedora myself!
>>
>>
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 3:52?PM Tom Lake <tlake at twcny.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>> I have an Ubuntu 23.10 system with agetty running on its eight serial
>> ports. I can hook up most terminals to the ports and login to a bash shell.
>>
>> When I try to use a Teletype ASR 33, however, I get the login prompt and
>> I answer enter the username. If I hit Return, nothing happens. If I hot
>> Line Feed, the Password prompt is shown.
>>
>> After I enter the password (all uppercase) Incorrect password is shown.
>>
>>
>>
>> Since the prompts are displayed properly, I?m pretty sure the baud rate,
>> BPS and stop bits are correct. What else can I check?
>>
>>
>>
>> I start agetty this way:
>>
>>
>>
>> agetty  -L -U ttyUSB0 110 tty
>>
>>
>>
>> The -L means it?s a dedicated line, not dial-in. The -U means the
>> terminal is uppercase only and some upper/lowercase conversions should be
>> made.
>>
>> The port is a USB to serial port (ttyUSB0), baud is 110.
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> GreenKeys mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>
>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to vk2bea at gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>    |\      _,,,---,,_             Michael Katzmann
>>    /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_         NV3Z / VK2BEA / G4NYV
>>   |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'
>>  '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> GreenKeys mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>
>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to chuck at rehor.com
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to mooreericnyc at gmail.com
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From vk2bea at gmail.com  Tue Jan  9 13:15:07 2024
From: vk2bea at gmail.com (Michael Katzmann)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2024 13:15:07 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Interface ASR33 to Linux serial port
In-Reply-To: <CAE1er56LmTZRYeosidUp00hX0xtpN3i=Vryz6UB=H2kz6QnvSw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAEIv7Z/V4xxNu3wc77DZsnUBAMO2jhD3dRHOtM0AqgC7tuYAAAAAAA4AABAAAABU+c2pH24oQaHAAIvnJ1adAQAAAAA=@twcny.rr.com>
	<CAMyt5OQ+VkqhWYdUspu7uWtA0W80f-eJO97WXjbTBM3ioWLRrA@mail.gmail.com>
	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAEIv7Z/V4xxNu3wc77DZsnUBAMO2jhD3dRHOtM0AqgC7tuYAAAAAAA4AABAAAACGqtdWztK3Rpv7qL7+Nm3bAQAAAAA=@twcny.rr.com>
	<CAHxEihYyZJXy2f+XY8F-p3VTshJERWvTZ+g2F-FwyPgoKeyxaQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAE1er56LmTZRYeosidUp00hX0xtpN3i=Vryz6UB=H2kz6QnvSw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMyt5OThSiVCt2bQEYyNw7Kkzatw4UJbUiR8=z5o51nwNJtMZg@mail.gmail.com>

I did some work on the Linux Prolific driver to get it to work with
arbitrary baud rates (e.g. 110). There are several variants and the one I
had did not give the right speed when set to 100. I was able to reverse
engineer it (with a lot of trial and error) and now AFAIK all the
variants now work.
https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/drivers/usb/serial/pl2303.c

Michael


On Tue, Jan 9, 2024 at 12:38?PM Eric Moore <mooreericnyc at gmail.com> wrote:

> DriverGenius 4 Port USB to Serial RS232 DB9 Adapter Coverter with 12 X
> LEDs - Win11 & Mac (4XRS232, Metal) https://a.co/d/6xXQ0fy
>
> This is what I use, definitely does 110 baud on all 4 ports, should do
> lower.
>
> Uses the PL2303 I think, the FTDI I have had issues at low speeds.
>
> -Eric
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 9, 2024, 11:13?AM Chuck Rehor <chuck at rehor.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi GreenKeyers,
>>
>>
>>
>> In the past for my RS-232 projects when I?ve needed serial
>> communications, I ran into unexplained problems with USB-to-RS232-Serial
>> converters incorporating the Prolific chipset. Since Prolific has become
>> so, well, prolific, it has a huge market share, so foreign companies have
>> knocked off the Prolific chip and flooded the market with counterfeit chips
>> marked Prolific, but are NOT Prolific brand.  These counterfeit chips have
>> flooded the electronics parts supply chain, and therefore, have been
>> inadvertently used in even legitimate companies' USB adapters (even
>> name-brand companies).  To protect themselves, Prolific finally changed
>> their drivers so that their drivers are on the lookout for bogus chips. I
>> think those Prolific drivers are part of the Microsoft Plug-n-Play
>> devices.  If the new Windows driver finds a counterfeit chip being used on
>> the system, the driver will give a warning and disable the device by
>> overwriting the driver on your system. With the RPi running its version of
>> Linux, I?ve scratched my head trying to get gettys to run right because it
>> might show the login prompt, but either not accept characters, or it
>> accepts characters but would not give me a Password prompt, so I couldn't
>> get logged in. Searching on the internet, I saw other people had problems
>> with the Linux drivers too.
>>
>>
>>
>> So I?ve given up on Prolific and only use devices which use the FTDI
>> chipset. If a device doesn't specifically say it uses the FTDI chipset,
>> chances are it doesn't, so I don?t bother with it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Recently I?ve had great luck with Gearmo 4-Port RS232 to USB FTDI chip
>> Adapter w/RX and TX Status LEDs (
>> https://www.amazon.com/Gearmo-Port-RS232-Adapter-Status/dp/B08P24ZQ1B
>> $44). It comes in a version that doesn't have the status LEDs for a few
>> dollars cheaper, but LEDs are well-worth it when trying to debug something.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you only need one RS-232 port, I can recommend Gearmo's USB to Serial
>> RS-232 Adapter with LED Indicators FTDI Chipset (
>> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AHYJWWG   $23).
>>
>>
>>
>> The only thing I can't verify is if it goes down to 110 baud (I don't
>> have a 110-baud device in the same location).  I did connect Ports 1 & 2
>> together (via a null modem connector) and opened two putty sessions set for
>> 110 baud, 8 bits, 1 stop, no parity, xon/xoff, and it seemed to work (I
>> could send characters back and forth between windows).  I used putty
>> version 0.78 on Windows 11 and a command line of: "C:\Chuck> putty
>> -serial COM5 -sercfg 110,8,1,n,X" because I could never correctly configure
>> putty with its GUI.  However, when I opened a putty session for 300 baud
>> and kept the other at 110, I expected I couldn?t communicate between them,
>> but lo and behold, it worked anyway, so I?m not sure it actually went down
>> to 110 and 300 baud.  Maybe it defaults to a certain speed if someone tries
>> to give it a speed it can't handle.  Like I said, I don?t have a 110 baud
>> terminal in the same location so I couldn?t really verify 110 or 300 baud
>> operation, but sometime I will and report back.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hope the above helps.
>>
>>
>>
>> Chuck
>> W9CFR
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 8, 2024 at 2:36?PM Tom Lake <tlake at twcny.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I have a PiDP-11 as well and the Teletype works fine with it. I replace
>>> the PiDP-11 with the Pi 5 using the same RS-232 converter and I can?t log
>>> into Linux with the Teletype.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Michael Katzmann <vk2bea at gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 4, 2024 5:33 PM
>>> *To:* tlake at twcny.rr.com
>>> *Cc:* greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
>>> *Subject:* Re: [GreenKeys] Interface ASR33 to Linux serial port
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I've got a PiDP11 with a 33 attached.
>>>
>>> Usually the 33 is driven off the PDP11/70 SIMH emulator.
>>>
>>> I tried running the agetty command as you showed and it looks like it
>>> worked (except bash is confused for some reason)
>>>
>>> The OS is Raspbian (32 bit) but its pretty close to Ubuntu (both based
>>> on Debian). I favour Fedora myself!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 3:52?PM Tom Lake <tlake at twcny.rr.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I have an Ubuntu 23.10 system with agetty running on its eight serial
>>> ports. I can hook up most terminals to the ports and login to a bash shell.
>>>
>>> When I try to use a Teletype ASR 33, however, I get the login prompt and
>>> I answer enter the username. If I hit Return, nothing happens. If I hot
>>> Line Feed, the Password prompt is shown.
>>>
>>> After I enter the password (all uppercase) Incorrect password is shown.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Since the prompts are displayed properly, I?m pretty sure the baud rate,
>>> BPS and stop bits are correct. What else can I check?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I start agetty this way:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> agetty  -L -U ttyUSB0 110 tty
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The -L means it?s a dedicated line, not dial-in. The -U means the
>>> terminal is uppercase only and some upper/lowercase conversions should be
>>> made.
>>>
>>> The port is a USB to serial port (ttyUSB0), baud is 110.
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> GreenKeys mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>>
>>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to vk2bea at gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>    |\      _,,,---,,_             Michael Katzmann
>>>    /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_         NV3Z / VK2BEA / G4NYV
>>>   |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'
>>>  '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> GreenKeys mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>>
>>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to chuck at rehor.com
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> GreenKeys mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>
>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to mooreericnyc at gmail.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to vk2bea at gmail.com



-- 
   |\      _,,,---,,_             Michael Katzmann
   /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_         NV3Z / VK2BEA / G4NYV
  |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'
 '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)
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From dave at horsfall.org  Tue Jan  9 14:57:29 2024
From: dave at horsfall.org (Dave Horsfall)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 06:57:29 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [GreenKeys] Interface ASR33 to Linux serial port
In-Reply-To: <CAHxEihYyZJXy2f+XY8F-p3VTshJERWvTZ+g2F-FwyPgoKeyxaQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAEIv7Z/V4xxNu3wc77DZsnUBAMO2jhD3dRHOtM0AqgC7tuYAAAAAAA4AABAAAABU+c2pH24oQaHAAIvnJ1adAQAAAAA=@twcny.rr.com>
	<CAMyt5OQ+VkqhWYdUspu7uWtA0W80f-eJO97WXjbTBM3ioWLRrA@mail.gmail.com>
	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAEIv7Z/V4xxNu3wc77DZsnUBAMO2jhD3dRHOtM0AqgC7tuYAAAAAAA4AABAAAACGqtdWztK3Rpv7qL7+Nm3bAQAAAAA=@twcny.rr.com>
	<CAHxEihYyZJXy2f+XY8F-p3VTshJERWvTZ+g2F-FwyPgoKeyxaQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2401100648470.12533@aneurin.horsfall.org>

On Tue, 9 Jan 2024, Chuck Rehor wrote:

> [...] With the RPi running its version of Linux, I?ve scratched my head 
> trying to get gettys to run right because it might show the login 
> prompt, but either not accept characters, or it accepts characters but 
> would not give me a Password prompt, so I couldn't get logged in. 
> Searching on the internet, I saw other people had problems with the 
> Linux drivers too.

I'm surprised that Linux went down the same path of sabotaging systems it 
doesn't approve of as did M$; who knows what other damage was caused in 
the process, if you innocently used a fake chip?

My brother gave me one of those cables which doesn't work on his Windoze 
box, yet runs just fine on my FreeBSD server...

-- Dave (vk2kfu)

From chrise at pobox.com  Tue Jan  9 16:29:19 2024
From: chrise at pobox.com (Chris Elmquist)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2024 15:29:19 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] Interface ASR33 to Linux serial port
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2401100648470.12533@aneurin.horsfall.org>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAEIv7Z/V4xxNu3wc77DZsnUBAMO2jhD3dRHOtM0AqgC7tuYAAAAAAA4AABAAAABU+c2pH24oQaHAAIvnJ1adAQAAAAA=@twcny.rr.com>
	<CAMyt5OQ+VkqhWYdUspu7uWtA0W80f-eJO97WXjbTBM3ioWLRrA@mail.gmail.com>
	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAEIv7Z/V4xxNu3wc77DZsnUBAMO2jhD3dRHOtM0AqgC7tuYAAAAAAA4AABAAAACGqtdWztK3Rpv7qL7+Nm3bAQAAAAA=@twcny.rr.com>
	<CAHxEihYyZJXy2f+XY8F-p3VTshJERWvTZ+g2F-FwyPgoKeyxaQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2401100648470.12533@aneurin.horsfall.org>
Message-ID: <20240109212919.GM23409@n0jcf.net>

On Wednesday (01/10/2024 at 06:57AM +1100), Dave Horsfall wrote:
> On Tue, 9 Jan 2024, Chuck Rehor wrote:
> 
> > [...] With the RPi running its version of Linux, I?ve scratched my head 
> > trying to get gettys to run right because it might show the login 
> > prompt, but either not accept characters, or it accepts characters but 
> > would not give me a Password prompt, so I couldn't get logged in. 
> > Searching on the internet, I saw other people had problems with the 
> > Linux drivers too.
> 
> I'm surprised that Linux went down the same path of sabotaging systems it 
> doesn't approve of as did M$; who knows what other damage was caused in 
> the process, if you innocently used a fake chip?

Actually, I think that was the Windows FTDI driver doing the sabotaging.
They too were burned by the chip ripoffs so made an attempt to "get even".
If the Windows FTDI driver detected a non-FTDI chip, it would refuse to
enumerate it and that port was not useable from Windows.

However the open-source FTDI driver, which most people use in their Linux
kernel, did not do this evil bad thing.  Therefore, your counterfeit
yet functional FTDI-like port will still work in Linux.

This is extremely common in these programming cables for various ham
radios--  the TYT and clones in particular.

> My brother gave me one of those cables which doesn't work on his Windoze 
> box, yet runs just fine on my FreeBSD server...

Yup and it will with Linux too.

So, how are you guys getting your Linux with 110 baud interfaces to
handle uppercase only TTYs?

I played with this a couple years ago and failed because it seemed like
all the IOCTLs in the kernel, and "stty" and "getty" options relating
to uppercase had been deprecated.  I could not get there with a modern
distribution.  Have they put those goodies back?

Chris
-- 
Chris Elmquist N?JCF


From mooreericnyc at gmail.com  Tue Jan  9 16:42:49 2024
From: mooreericnyc at gmail.com (Eric Moore)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2024 15:42:49 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] Interface ASR33 to Linux serial port
In-Reply-To: <20240109212919.GM23409@n0jcf.net>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAEIv7Z/V4xxNu3wc77DZsnUBAMO2jhD3dRHOtM0AqgC7tuYAAAAAAA4AABAAAABU+c2pH24oQaHAAIvnJ1adAQAAAAA=@twcny.rr.com>
	<CAMyt5OQ+VkqhWYdUspu7uWtA0W80f-eJO97WXjbTBM3ioWLRrA@mail.gmail.com>
	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAEIv7Z/V4xxNu3wc77DZsnUBAMO2jhD3dRHOtM0AqgC7tuYAAAAAAA4AABAAAACGqtdWztK3Rpv7qL7+Nm3bAQAAAAA=@twcny.rr.com>
	<CAHxEihYyZJXy2f+XY8F-p3VTshJERWvTZ+g2F-FwyPgoKeyxaQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2401100648470.12533@aneurin.horsfall.org>
	<20240109212919.GM23409@n0jcf.net>
Message-ID: <CAE1er55cmfXmHWLYyONt-Qf8znbbyrXgA2RnPvQ=oQiKgfo2XQ@mail.gmail.com>

Those options are still there, you need to use icanon as an option to stty
to use them.

xcase, iuclc, olcuc, probably more options I am forgetting.

-Eric


On Tue, Jan 9, 2024, 3:29?PM Chris Elmquist <chrise at pobox.com> wrote:

> On Wednesday (01/10/2024 at 06:57AM +1100), Dave Horsfall wrote:
> > On Tue, 9 Jan 2024, Chuck Rehor wrote:
> >
> > > [...] With the RPi running its version of Linux, I?ve scratched my
> head
> > > trying to get gettys to run right because it might show the login
> > > prompt, but either not accept characters, or it accepts characters but
> > > would not give me a Password prompt, so I couldn't get logged in.
> > > Searching on the internet, I saw other people had problems with the
> > > Linux drivers too.
> >
> > I'm surprised that Linux went down the same path of sabotaging systems
> it
> > doesn't approve of as did M$; who knows what other damage was caused in
> > the process, if you innocently used a fake chip?
>
> Actually, I think that was the Windows FTDI driver doing the sabotaging.
> They too were burned by the chip ripoffs so made an attempt to "get even".
> If the Windows FTDI driver detected a non-FTDI chip, it would refuse to
> enumerate it and that port was not useable from Windows.
>
> However the open-source FTDI driver, which most people use in their Linux
> kernel, did not do this evil bad thing.  Therefore, your counterfeit
> yet functional FTDI-like port will still work in Linux.
>
> This is extremely common in these programming cables for various ham
> radios--  the TYT and clones in particular.
>
> > My brother gave me one of those cables which doesn't work on his Windoze
> > box, yet runs just fine on my FreeBSD server...
>
> Yup and it will with Linux too.
>
> So, how are you guys getting your Linux with 110 baud interfaces to
> handle uppercase only TTYs?
>
> I played with this a couple years ago and failed because it seemed like
> all the IOCTLs in the kernel, and "stty" and "getty" options relating
> to uppercase had been deprecated.  I could not get there with a modern
> distribution.  Have they put those goodies back?
>
> Chris
> --
> Chris Elmquist N?JCF
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to mooreericnyc at gmail.com
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From chrise at pobox.com  Tue Jan  9 17:16:43 2024
From: chrise at pobox.com (Chris Elmquist)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2024 16:16:43 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] Interface ASR33 to Linux serial port
In-Reply-To: <CAE1er55cmfXmHWLYyONt-Qf8znbbyrXgA2RnPvQ=oQiKgfo2XQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAEIv7Z/V4xxNu3wc77DZsnUBAMO2jhD3dRHOtM0AqgC7tuYAAAAAAA4AABAAAABU+c2pH24oQaHAAIvnJ1adAQAAAAA=@twcny.rr.com>
	<CAMyt5OQ+VkqhWYdUspu7uWtA0W80f-eJO97WXjbTBM3ioWLRrA@mail.gmail.com>
	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAEIv7Z/V4xxNu3wc77DZsnUBAMO2jhD3dRHOtM0AqgC7tuYAAAAAAA4AABAAAACGqtdWztK3Rpv7qL7+Nm3bAQAAAAA=@twcny.rr.com>
	<CAHxEihYyZJXy2f+XY8F-p3VTshJERWvTZ+g2F-FwyPgoKeyxaQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2401100648470.12533@aneurin.horsfall.org>
	<20240109212919.GM23409@n0jcf.net>
	<CAE1er55cmfXmHWLYyONt-Qf8znbbyrXgA2RnPvQ=oQiKgfo2XQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20240109221642.GP23409@n0jcf.net>

On Tuesday (01/09/2024 at 03:42PM -0600), Eric Moore wrote:
> Those options are still there, you need to use icanon as an option to stty
> to use them.
> 
> xcase, iuclc, olcuc, probably more options I am forgetting.

Hunh. OK. Thanks for that.  Those are the ones I know from the old days
but I was pretty sure they were unsupported in eg, Ubuntu 18 (at the
time I tried it).

I'll give it a new go with Armbian or Raspbian on a Pi or Pi-clone
sometime soon.

The ideal solution for me is to use a terminal server (such as an old
Lantronix ESP) for connection to the TTY and then that initiates a telnet
session to the Linux/Unix host.  You then need a getty to answer up to
that and be amenable to uppercase only login, shell, etc.

Chris
-- 
Chris Elmquist


From mooreericnyc at gmail.com  Tue Jan  9 18:04:01 2024
From: mooreericnyc at gmail.com (Eric Moore)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2024 17:04:01 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] Interface ASR33 to Linux serial port
In-Reply-To: <20240109221642.GP23409@n0jcf.net>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAEIv7Z/V4xxNu3wc77DZsnUBAMO2jhD3dRHOtM0AqgC7tuYAAAAAAA4AABAAAABU+c2pH24oQaHAAIvnJ1adAQAAAAA=@twcny.rr.com>
	<CAMyt5OQ+VkqhWYdUspu7uWtA0W80f-eJO97WXjbTBM3ioWLRrA@mail.gmail.com>
	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAEIv7Z/V4xxNu3wc77DZsnUBAMO2jhD3dRHOtM0AqgC7tuYAAAAAAA4AABAAAACGqtdWztK3Rpv7qL7+Nm3bAQAAAAA=@twcny.rr.com>
	<CAHxEihYyZJXy2f+XY8F-p3VTshJERWvTZ+g2F-FwyPgoKeyxaQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2401100648470.12533@aneurin.horsfall.org>
	<20240109212919.GM23409@n0jcf.net>
	<CAE1er55cmfXmHWLYyONt-Qf8znbbyrXgA2RnPvQ=oQiKgfo2XQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20240109221642.GP23409@n0jcf.net>
Message-ID: <CAE1er55fFnWr1qqWSfyXQwAVJPxZdroYdL_YS6mF_r3W9AW=hw@mail.gmail.com>

I find socat invaluable. It lets me connect processes (bash, telnet,
ascii art, etc..) and teletypes cleanly and with predictable results,
with a printout of exactly what is being exchanged that lets me
troubleshoot any issues.

Using gettys is neat, but annoying to troubleshoot for quick demos.

Has anyone played with heavy metal, the windows app, under wine? I
seem to remember I got it working and then got distracted before
attaching it to the tty.

-Eric


On Tue, Jan 9, 2024 at 4:16?PM Chris Elmquist <chrise at pobox.com> wrote:
>
> On Tuesday (01/09/2024 at 03:42PM -0600), Eric Moore wrote:
> > Those options are still there, you need to use icanon as an option to stty
> > to use them.
> >
> > xcase, iuclc, olcuc, probably more options I am forgetting.
>
> Hunh. OK. Thanks for that.  Those are the ones I know from the old days
> but I was pretty sure they were unsupported in eg, Ubuntu 18 (at the
> time I tried it).
>
> I'll give it a new go with Armbian or Raspbian on a Pi or Pi-clone
> sometime soon.
>
> The ideal solution for me is to use a terminal server (such as an old
> Lantronix ESP) for connection to the TTY and then that initiates a telnet
> session to the Linux/Unix host.  You then need a getty to answer up to
> that and be amenable to uppercase only login, shell, etc.
>
> Chris
> --
> Chris Elmquist
>

From jhhaynes at earthlink.net  Tue Jan  9 22:27:11 2024
From: jhhaynes at earthlink.net (Jim Haynes)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2024 21:27:11 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [GreenKeys] An Engineer's Memory of Teletype Corporation
In-Reply-To: <6b56f706c219c56b932ecf428be9b03d.squirrel@hallikainen.org>
References: <6b56f706c219c56b932ecf428be9b03d.squirrel@hallikainen.org>
Message-ID: <98726663-7d44-d4e7-b6b-9852c8fb34f8@earthlink.net>


Glad you enjoyed it.  You may be old enough to remember the title
as a parody of one of the General Electric slogans "Progress Is Our
Most Important Product."  It struck me one day, watching a BRPE
producing a lot of chad, to create that somewhat cynical slogan.

 	---

 	"Ya can argue all ya wanna, but it's dif'rent than it was."
 	"No it ain't! No it ain't!  But ya gotta know the territory."
 		Meredith Willson, The Music Man

From 1oldlens1 at ix.netcom.com  Tue Jan  9 23:17:28 2024
From: 1oldlens1 at ix.netcom.com (Richard Knoppow)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2024 20:17:28 -0800
Subject: [GreenKeys] An Engineer's Memory of Teletype Corporation
In-Reply-To: <98726663-7d44-d4e7-b6b-9852c8fb34f8@earthlink.net>
References: <6b56f706c219c56b932ecf428be9b03d.squirrel@hallikainen.org>
	<98726663-7d44-d4e7-b6b-9852c8fb34f8@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5a0a5b30-b214-4ee0-98eb-de0e2e39c29b@ix.netcom.com>

    Saved it as a PDF. I remember early TV and GE's spokesman Ronald 
Reagan saying that. He also sold Chesterfield cigarettes "They Satisfy".

On 1/9/2024 7:27 PM, Jim Haynes wrote:
> 
> Glad you enjoyed it.? You may be old enough to remember the title
> as a parody of one of the General Electric slogans "Progress Is Our
> Most Important Product."? It struck me one day, watching a BRPE
> producing a lot of chad, to create that somewhat cynical slogan.
> 
>  ????---

-- 
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles
WB6KBL
SKCC 19998

From pbirkel at gmail.com  Wed Jan 10 10:00:27 2024
From: pbirkel at gmail.com (pbirkel at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 10:00:27 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Powering Series (Governed) Motors (LMU6) - 87.6 VPS
In-Reply-To: <f4eacf51-1fb3-4013-8015-c16422e2cc3d@gmail.com>
References: <10aa01da3d84$f73d0640$e5b712c0$@gmail.com>
	<f4eacf51-1fb3-4013-8015-c16422e2cc3d@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00e301da43d5$bfb11700$3f134500$@gmail.com>

Thank you John, as well as Bruce (Gentry) and Doug (Jones) who responded directly with useful observations.  I try to be a ?measure twice, cut once? sort of guy when it comes to entering unfamiliar territory.  After BRPE base disassembly, wiring harness exploration, schematic preparation, and general surface cleaning, I reassembled and put the LMU6 successfully to the test.  Interestingly there was quite a bit of ozone production originally (but no evidence of sparking), however ozone production appears to have become more moderate after ~10 minutes of running time.  I can?t recall how much ozone production to expect from brushed motors.  It does bring back some memories.

 

The BRPE, just idling, is LOUD.  Admittedly I don?t have a cover for the motor area but it?s the shaft-and-punch mechanism that?s the noise source; the motor alone just hums along.  I can?t imagine multiple BRPEs running at the same time in a room without also imagining ear plugs.  Just the one makes more racket than most anything else around here!

 

Which brings me to my next experience, assessing the governed speed. I fired up my 87.6 VPS tuning fork (previously unused) under a strong incandescent light and pretty much failed to get a good ?look? at the 35 spot row ? just a blur ? although the 6 spot row could be seen slowly revolving so I evidently was close to the correct speed.  Obtained an inexpensive digital tachometer and tweaked the speed adjustment for 14400 rpm (4 spot row) after I taped off the adjustment opening; only a half-turn speed-up seemed to be sufficient.  After going back to the tuning fork and trying various ?postures? I found that the best viewing was when the fork was at maximum vibration, thus maximum window periods.  However mostly looking tangentially towards the rim was more productive than trying to observe the band(s) directly under the fork.  But I did get more-or-less stationary to slow-moving bands at last.

 

The manual states ?essentially stable at 3600 rpm?; just what amount of variation should I expect both within a single run period and then between run periods hours/days/weeks apart (assuming constant environmental conditions)?

 

What is the recommended setup & procedure for using a tuning fork for evaluating/adjusting timing of these governed motors?  (lighting, eye placement, view angle, ?)

 

Anyway, as the BRPE is driven by parallel signals the exact motor cps isn?t as critical as in a serialization/deserialization situation.  If anything the cps needs to ?align? with the controller timing/expectations for the duration of a full revolution, and that expectation will be under software control (Arduino) so adjustable.

 

From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net <greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net> On Behalf Of John Spigel
Sent: Tuesday, January 2, 2024 10:17 AM
To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Powering Series (Governed) Motors (LMU6)

 

Paul, Page 2 of the manual in the B295B link states that the LMU6 assembly is for use with AC. It likely will not be suitable for DC with the peripheral items provided with it. So 50/60 CPS is good. I would check for leakage and ground the base for safety. The targets on the fan allow various ways to adjust speed. 
73, John W1AN



On 02-Jan-24 14:07, pbirkel at gmail.com <mailto:pbirkel at gmail.com>  wrote:

As related in another thread I have acquired a BRPE21 with a governed LMU6 motor unit.

The motor plate states: 5PA66HV2A / Type: PA / V: 115 / CY: 60/50 / WD: SERIES

Bulletin 295B ?Technical Manual for Motor Units? (https://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/tty/295B-6504.pdf) states that the LMU6 series (governed) motor is AC/DC.  I infer that if I simply supply 120VAC 60Hz the governing components/circuitry will have no adverse effect, but that?s not made clear anywhere.  The curved-blade power socket seems to suggest that this installation was intended for DC operation, so I?m reticent to simply supply AC ?and see what happens?.  (Shaft turns freely and depressing the four spring-ball oiling ports appears to indicate the presence of sufficient light-weight oil, so other than modest cleaning the motor assembly appears to be ready-to-go.)

In the TM, Figure 5 ?Typical Series (Governed) Motor Unit Schematic Diagram? (PDF page 16 of 52) is the applicable schematic; there?s no indication of polarization at the LINE connection.  Is this correct for 115 VDC operation (either orientation is fine)?

Can I simply power the LMU6 with 60 Hz, 120 VAC without any changes?

- paul

 

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From w1an.dxusa at gmail.com  Wed Jan 10 10:34:30 2024
From: w1an.dxusa at gmail.com (John Spigel)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 15:34:30 +0000
Subject: [GreenKeys] Powering Series (Governed) Motors (LMU6) - 87.6 VPS
In-Reply-To: <00e301da43d5$bfb11700$3f134500$@gmail.com>
References: <10aa01da3d84$f73d0640$e5b712c0$@gmail.com>
	<f4eacf51-1fb3-4013-8015-c16422e2cc3d@gmail.com>
	<00e301da43d5$bfb11700$3f134500$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4a8ad49c-95fc-46e9-bc6f-9aeb14040876@gmail.com>

Hi Paul, good that you've been able to get the motor speed tuned. I've 
suspected for a while that you only need to get close.? I've been able 
to use my tuning fork to do the adjustment, but then questioned the need 
to have the entire shaft and assembly powered. For the printer, should 
it be run open during the test? And how about the TD? Surely the load 
will slow the motor. To determine how much would be difficult with the 
tuning fork, but how about trying with your digital tach?
As far as ozone, I wonder how much is result of deterioration of the 
filter capacitors or motor brushes. Anyone have some experience in this 
area?
73, John W1AN


On 10-Jan-24 15:00, pbirkel at gmail.com wrote:
>
> Thank you John, as well as Bruce (Gentry) and Doug (Jones) who 
> responded directly with useful observations.? I try to be a ?measure 
> twice, cut once? sort of guy when it comes to entering unfamiliar 
> territory.? After BRPE base disassembly, wiring harness exploration, 
> schematic preparation, and general surface cleaning, I reassembled and 
> put the LMU6 successfully to the test.? Interestingly there was quite 
> a bit of ozone production originally (but no evidence of sparking), 
> however ozone production appears to have become more moderate after 
> ~10 minutes of running time.? I can?t recall how much ozone production 
> to expect from brushed motors.? It does bring back some memories.
>
> The BRPE, just idling, is LOUD.? Admittedly I don?t have a cover for 
> the motor area but it?s the shaft-and-punch mechanism that?s the noise 
> source; the motor alone just hums along.? I can?t imagine multiple 
> BRPEs running at the same time in a room without also imagining ear 
> plugs.? Just the one makes more racket than most anything else around 
> here!
>
> Which brings me to my next experience, assessing the governed speed. I 
> fired up my 87.6 VPS tuning fork (previously unused) under a strong 
> incandescent light and pretty much failed to get a good ?look? at the 
> 35 spot row ? just a blur ? although the 6 spot row could be seen 
> slowly revolving so I evidently was close to the correct speed.? 
> Obtained an inexpensive digital tachometer and tweaked the speed 
> adjustment for 14400 rpm (4 spot row) after I taped off the adjustment 
> opening; only a half-turn speed-up seemed to be sufficient.? After 
> going back to the tuning fork and trying various ?postures? I found 
> that the best viewing was when the fork was at maximum vibration, thus 
> maximum window periods.? However mostly looking tangentially towards 
> the rim was more productive than trying to observe the band(s) 
> directly under the fork.? But I did get more-or-less stationary to 
> slow-moving bands at last.
>
> The manual states ?essentially stable at 3600 rpm?; just what amount 
> of variation should I expect both within a single run period and then 
> between run periods hours/days/weeks apart (assuming constant 
> environmental conditions)?
>
> What is the recommended setup & procedure for using a tuning fork for 
> evaluating/adjusting timing of these governed motors?? (lighting, eye 
> placement, view angle, ?)
>
> Anyway, as the BRPE is driven by parallel signals the exact motor cps 
> isn?t as critical as in a serialization/deserialization situation.? If 
> anything the cps needs to ?align? with the controller 
> timing/expectations for the duration of a full revolution, and that 
> expectation will be under software control (Arduino) so adjustable.
>
> *From:* greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net 
> <greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net> *On Behalf Of *John Spigel
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 2, 2024 10:17 AM
> *To:* greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
> *Subject:* Re: [GreenKeys] Powering Series (Governed) Motors (LMU6)
>
> Paul, Page 2 of the manual in the B295B link states that the LMU6 
> assembly is for use with AC. It likely will not be suitable for DC 
> with the peripheral items provided with it. So 50/60 CPS is good. I 
> would check for leakage and ground the base for safety. The targets on 
> the fan allow various ways to adjust speed.
> 73, John W1AN
>
> On 02-Jan-24 14:07, pbirkel at gmail.com wrote:
>
>     As related in another thread I have acquired a BRPE21 with a
>     governed LMU6 motor unit.
>
>     The motor plate states: 5PA66HV2A / Type: PA / V: 115 / CY: 60/50
>     / WD: SERIES
>
>     Bulletin 295B ?Technical Manual for Motor Units?
>     (https://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/tty/295B-6504.pdf) states that
>     the LMU6 series (governed) motor is AC/DC.? I infer that if I
>     simply supply 120VAC 60Hz the governing components/circuitry will
>     have no adverse effect, but that?s not made clear anywhere.? The
>     curved-blade power socket seems to suggest that this installation
>     was intended for DC operation, so I?m reticent to simply supply AC
>     ?and see what happens?.? (Shaft turns freely and depressing the
>     four spring-ball oiling ports appears to indicate the presence of
>     sufficient light-weight oil, so other than modest cleaning the
>     motor assembly appears to be ready-to-go.)
>
>     In the TM, Figure 5 ?Typical Series (Governed) Motor Unit
>     Schematic Diagram? (PDF page 16 of 52) is the applicable
>     schematic; there?s no indication of polarization at the LINE
>     connection.? Is this correct for 115 VDC operation (either
>     orientation is fine)?
>
>     Can I simply power the LMU6 with 60 Hz, 120 VAC without any changes?
>
>     - paul
>
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From harold at w6iwi.org  Wed Jan 10 12:24:59 2024
From: harold at w6iwi.org (Harold Hallikainen)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 10:24:59 -0700
Subject: [GreenKeys] Powering Series (Governed) Motors (LMU6) - 87.6 VPS
In-Reply-To: <4a8ad49c-95fc-46e9-bc6f-9aeb14040876@gmail.com>
References: <10aa01da3d84$f73d0640$e5b712c0$@gmail.com>
	<f4eacf51-1fb3-4013-8015-c16422e2cc3d@gmail.com>
	<00e301da43d5$bfb11700$3f134500$@gmail.com>
	<4a8ad49c-95fc-46e9-bc6f-9aeb14040876@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bf273e319efaf388a042892f108746fd.squirrel@hallikainen.org>

The governed motor in my model 14 typing reperf appears quite stable.
There was a question regarding the load on the motor when a printer is
running open versus idle. The load on my model 15 is higher when the
printer is idle. All the power is going into those felt friction clutches
that are slipping. When running open, they are not absorbing the power.
Here are some measurements on my model 15:


Measurement	Idle	Running
Current	        2.5 A	2.48 A
Power	        79 W	70.5 W
Apparent Power	297 VA	293 VA
Power Factor	26 %	24 %

Harold
https://w6iwi.org



From tomhenryhunter at gmail.com  Wed Jan 10 19:19:35 2024
From: tomhenryhunter at gmail.com (Tom Hunter)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 19:19:35 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] N3CRK Streams
Message-ID: <CAJK8691AwDNznkP08Rh4ihji9y=PMGVJY1ShovC7PZR9inVWpA@mail.gmail.com>

My power was off for over 30 hours, so of course my streams have been down
and my internet and computers were down, so I could not post to greenkeys.

I run my generator 2 1/2 hours on and 2 hours off. So for the past thirty
hours I haven't had much sleep.

Meanwhile my Icecast server keeps crashing. I am going to replace it before
I come back up - hopefully tomorrow I will be less tired.


Tom N3CRK
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From w9ddd at tapr.org  Thu Jan 11 11:43:24 2024
From: w9ddd at tapr.org (John, W9DDD)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 10:43:24 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] Nylon vs. Fiber/steel gears?
Message-ID: <2a25a67f-825d-2cc1-35ee-d38d65d8b937@tapr.org>

Gentlemen, why do you suppose there was the transition from fiber and 
steel gears to nylon?? Noise, cost or other considerations? My guess is 
that the nylon can be molded and therefore less costly to make, but I 
can't back that up with facts.? Noise, I don't have enough experience, 
I'm just now switching a nylon 100 speed pair to 60 fiber/steel pair.? 
Will I notice? And if I do will it be the gears or the speed?

BTW have you ever looked to find the right part number for screw that 
goes with the steel pinion?? I never did find it referenced anywhere.? 
(no I didn't look at the original Navy manual which even tells you how 
to make your own springs.)


-- 
---
----
You said "tomorrow" yesterday.

The above comments or recommendations are SWAG. Use at your own risk.
John, W9DDD


From navy.radio at gmail.com  Thu Jan 11 14:59:00 2024
From: navy.radio at gmail.com (Nick England)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 14:59:00 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Nylon vs. Fiber/steel gears?
In-Reply-To: <2a25a67f-825d-2cc1-35ee-d38d65d8b937@tapr.org>
References: <2a25a67f-825d-2cc1-35ee-d38d65d8b937@tapr.org>
Message-ID: <CAB55hNdaACUKeyHf5AWAK_Drzg2tCHPP8rK_27W30dm1Kj00qQ@mail.gmail.com>

according to that original Navy manual -
TP 151346
Screw, machine: slot drive; FH; steel,
nickel plated; #6-40; approx 7/16" lg o/a;
3/8" lg threaded portion, head 1/16" thk x 7/32" diam

1149B shows this for LMU3

[image: image.png]

Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com


On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 11:43?AM John, W9DDD <w9ddd at tapr.org> wrote:

> Gentlemen, why do you suppose there was the transition from fiber and
> steel gears to nylon?  Noise, cost or other considerations? My guess is
> that the nylon can be molded and therefore less costly to make, but I
> can't back that up with facts.  Noise, I don't have enough experience,
> I'm just now switching a nylon 100 speed pair to 60 fiber/steel pair.
> Will I notice? And if I do will it be the gears or the speed?
>
> BTW have you ever looked to find the right part number for screw that
> goes with the steel pinion?  I never did find it referenced anywhere.
> (no I didn't look at the original Navy manual which even tells you how
> to make your own springs.)
>
>
> --
> ---
> ----
> You said "tomorrow" yesterday.
>
> The above comments or recommendations are SWAG. Use at your own risk.
> John, W9DDD
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to navy.radio at gmail.com
>
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From idh at cse.unr.edu  Thu Jan 11 16:23:11 2024
From: idh at cse.unr.edu (Ivan Hafstrom)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 13:23:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [GreenKeys] Nylon vs. Fiber/steel gears?
In-Reply-To: <2a25a67f-825d-2cc1-35ee-d38d65d8b937@tapr.org>
References: <2a25a67f-825d-2cc1-35ee-d38d65d8b937@tapr.org>
Message-ID: <c6122b54-8662-5e8c-7a52-9b142c564041@cse.unr.edu>

Probably both noise and cost, but I have no direct knowledge.

However, it is probably not a good idea to switch from nylon to 
fiber/steel unless you have the older intermediate gear assembly with an 
overload disconnect.  That had a spring loaded detent arm connecting the 
(steel) intermediate gear to its shaft, so that if the printer was somehow 
locked up, that gear could stop and slip on its shaft, preventing printer 
damage.  The printer main shaft had a fiber driven gear with that 
arrangement.

With the later intermediate gear assembly's (nylon) gear fastened to its 
shaft by a screw, the nylon speed gears would strip if the printer jammed, 
acting as a mechanical "fuse."


On Thu, 11 Jan 2024, John, W9DDD wrote:

> [EXTERNAL EMAIL]
>
>
> Gentlemen, why do you suppose there was the transition from fiber and
> steel gears to nylon?  Noise, cost or other considerations? My guess is
> that the nylon can be molded and therefore less costly to make, but I
> can't back that up with facts.  Noise, I don't have enough experience,
> I'm just now switching a nylon 100 speed pair to 60 fiber/steel pair.
> Will I notice? And if I do will it be the gears or the speed?
>
> BTW have you ever looked to find the right part number for screw that
> goes with the steel pinion?  I never did find it referenced anywhere.
> (no I didn't look at the original Navy manual which even tells you how
> to make your own springs.)
>
>
> --
> ---
> ----
> You said "tomorrow" yesterday.
>
> The above comments or recommendations are SWAG. Use at your own risk.
> John, W9DDD
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: 
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.qth.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fgreenkeys&data=05%7C02%7Cidh%40cse.unr.edu%7C88d2e2ecc1644851339f08dc12c4760f%7C523b4bfc0ebd4c03b2b96f6a17fd31d8%7C0%7C0%7C638405882207635351%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=P%2BWtGa5diww7NcfzCYU0AOuSvBWW7KCCqcnX3AslCfc%3D&reserved=0
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> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: 
>>>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fteletype.net%2Fgksearch&data=05%7C02%7Cidh%40cse.unr.edu%7C88d2e2ecc1644851339f08dc12c4760f%7C523b4bfc0ebd4c03b2b96f6a17fd31d8%7C0%7C0%7C638405882207635351%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=LpqNFcE5PX0Rhw20uR%2FEf4bEndy3UbfWXkSVSvuiPbI%3D&reserved=0
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: 
>>>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.qth.net%2Fpipermail%2Fgreenkeys%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cidh%40cse.unr.edu%7C88d2e2ecc1644851339f08dc12c4760f%7C523b4bfc0ebd4c03b2b96f6a17fd31d8%7C0%7C0%7C638405882207635351%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=kxtbhjMcsB%2BCUBEZzJH6zwHIWa6m47d6BATjncneNUo%3D&reserved=0
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: 
>>>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.qth.net%2Farchive%2Fgreenkeys%2Fgreenkeys.html&data=05%7C02%7Cidh%40cse.unr.edu%7C88d2e2ecc1644851339f08dc12c4760f%7C523b4bfc0ebd4c03b2b96f6a17fd31d8%7C0%7C0%7C638405882207635351%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=gaAaFNxlWjDyKVtraAoci9VhWJoScwFB9IG6H5IaXZ8%3D&reserved=0
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: 
>>>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcomcents.com%2Ftty%2Fgreenkeyssearch.html&data=05%7C02%7Cidh%40cse.unr.edu%7C88d2e2ecc1644851339f08dc12c4760f%7C523b4bfc0ebd4c03b2b96f6a17fd31d8%7C0%7C0%7C638405882207635351%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=nFelCFDol%2BKZ7pm2%2BOnkLVRGnuQQrh%2BTZv0q3Ka%2B2n4%3D&reserved=0
>
> This list hosted by: 
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.qsl.net%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cidh%40cse.unr.edu%7C88d2e2ecc1644851339f08dc12c4760f%7C523b4bfc0ebd4c03b2b96f6a17fd31d8%7C0%7C0%7C638405882207635351%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=egj6DQjAwRMpD%2FjbVVTVWY7fwSbW5m%2BXzAf2qQeVuA4%3D&reserved=0
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> Message delivered to idh at cse.unr.edu
>
> This email originated outside of the University of Nevada, Reno. Do not click 
> on links or attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content 
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> (OIT) at abuse at unr.edu.
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From navy.radio at gmail.com  Fri Jan 12 12:23:52 2024
From: navy.radio at gmail.com (Nick England)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2024 12:23:52 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] URA-17 (CV-483) change info FWIW
Message-ID: <CAB55hNcSCXeigSvdOn9Lqseb+tjRmKN+RLU0kK60rJQrJXvkYw@mail.gmail.com>

The AN/URA-17 and AN/URA-17A AFSK converters were changed from 2550 Hz
center frequency to 2000 Hz center frequency in the 1960s.
I believe the AN/URA-17B already had the change to 2000 Hz center
I know that the AN/URA-17C and AN/URA-17D were 2000 Hz

There was an earlier Field Change that may have been cancelled - it
switched the filters from 2550 to 2000 and called the new unit AN/URA-53. I
have never seen a URA-53.

Changes to the URT-17 manual to cover 2000Hz change, AN/URA-17A,
AN/URA-17B, and AN/URA-53
https://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/ura17-94028-changes.pdf

 I have the following manuals on line
AN/URA-17
https://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/URA17.PDF
AN/URA-17C
https://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/ura17c-man-6810.pdf
AN/URA-17D
https://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/ura17d-0967-438-4010-7205.pdf

Note - URA-17E, -17F, and -17G are completely different units

Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com
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From john at janeandjohn.org  Fri Jan 12 13:07:36 2024
From: john at janeandjohn.org (John Canfield)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2024 12:07:36 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] Nylon vs. Fiber/steel gears?
In-Reply-To: <c6122b54-8662-5e8c-7a52-9b142c564041@cse.unr.edu>
References: <2a25a67f-825d-2cc1-35ee-d38d65d8b937@tapr.org>
	<c6122b54-8662-5e8c-7a52-9b142c564041@cse.unr.edu>
Message-ID: <a94806be-3339-4602-a4cb-8418f469bcc3@janeandjohn.org>

 From what I remember, Model 28-35s all had steel pinion gears and nylon 
drive gears, more than one time I had the typing unit lock up and the 
nylon gear served as a circuit breaker of sorts.

John WB5THT (TTY Technician for several years a long time ago.)

On 1/11/2024 3:23 PM, Ivan Hafstrom via GreenKeys wrote:
> Probably both noise and cost, but I have no direct knowledge.
>
> However, it is probably not a good idea to switch from nylon to 
> fiber/steel unless you have the older intermediate gear assembly with 
> an overload disconnect.? That had a spring loaded detent arm 
> connecting the (steel) intermediate gear to its shaft, so that if the 
> printer was somehow locked up, that gear could stop and slip on its 
> shaft, preventing printer damage.? The printer main shaft had a fiber 
> driven gear with that arrangement.
>
> With the later intermediate gear assembly's (nylon) gear fastened to 
> its shaft by a screw, the nylon speed gears would strip if the printer 
> jammed, acting as a mechanical "fuse."
>
>
> On Thu, 11 Jan 2024, John, W9DDD wrote:
>
>> [EXTERNAL EMAIL]
>>
>>
>> Gentlemen, why do you suppose there was the transition from fiber and
>> steel gears to nylon?? Noise, cost or other considerations? My guess is
>> that the nylon can be molded and therefore less costly to make, but I
>> can't back that up with facts.? Noise, I don't have enough experience,
>> I'm just now switching a nylon 100 speed pair to 60 fiber/steel pair.
>> Will I notice? And if I do will it be the gears or the speed?
>>
>> BTW have you ever looked to find the right part number for screw that
>> goes with the steel pinion?? I never did find it referenced anywhere.
>> (no I didn't look at the original Navy manual which even tells you how
>> to make your own springs.)
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> ---
>> ----
>> You said "tomorrow" yesterday.
>>
>> The above comments or recommendations are SWAG. Use at your own risk.
>> John, W9DDD

From fretless52 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 14 09:49:33 2024
From: fretless52 at gmail.com (fretless)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2024 08:49:33 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] GreenKeys Digest, Vol 240, Issue 10
In-Reply-To: <mailman.18861.1704824200.25502.greenkeys@mailman.qth.net>
References: <mailman.18861.1704824200.25502.greenkeys@mailman.qth.net>
Message-ID: <CAHT9AKRPXsGoqnXwrexoRGzUhYM3YQa_7HNv2EOBkepa5RsCgA@mail.gmail.com>

Nice work Michael.

In Jan/Feb 2021 I was working with Johan at kernel.org trying
to get my Prolific dongle to work with my 33.  It worked fine in
Windows so I knew it wasn't a hardware issue.  I was able to
hard code the USB initialization string that I captured in Windows
into the Linux driver and get it to work at 110b, but I was not able
to figure out how to modify the code to generate the string
automatically using the divisor routine.

I was still receiving updates from kernel.org a few weeks later and
saw where you were having the same issue and were eventually
able to get the driver to generate the correct initialization string.

I had to put my 33 in storage shortly after that and haven't been able to
use it.  Hopefully will retrieve it soon.

Joe

On Tue, Jan 9, 2024 at 12:20?PM <greenkeys-request at mailman.qth.net> wrote:

> Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2024 13:15:07 -0500
> From: Michael Katzmann <vk2bea at gmail.com>
> Cc: Greenkeys <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>, tlake at twcny.rr.com
> Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Interface ASR33 to Linux serial port
> Message-ID:
>         <CAMyt5OThSiVCt2bQEYyNw7Kkzatw4UJbUiR8=
> z5o51nwNJtMZg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I did some work on the Linux Prolific driver to get it to work with
> arbitrary baud rates (e.g. 110). There are several variants and the one I
> had did not give the right speed when set to 100. I was able to reverse
> engineer it (with a lot of trial and error) and now AFAIK all the
> variants now work.
> https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/drivers/usb/serial/pl2303.c
>
> Michael
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 9, 2024 at 12:38?PM Eric Moore <mooreericnyc at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > DriverGenius 4 Port USB to Serial RS232 DB9 Adapter Coverter with 12 X
> > LEDs - Win11 & Mac (4XRS232, Metal) https://a.co/d/6xXQ0fy
> >
> > This is what I use, definitely does 110 baud on all 4 ports, should do
> > lower.
> >
> > Uses the PL2303 I think, the FTDI I have had issues at low speeds.
> >
> > -Eric
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 9, 2024, 11:13?AM Chuck Rehor <chuck at rehor.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi GreenKeyers,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> In the past for my RS-232 projects when I?ve needed serial
> >> communications, I ran into unexplained problems with USB-to-RS232-Serial
> >> converters incorporating the Prolific chipset. Since Prolific has become
> >> so, well, prolific, it has a huge market share, so foreign companies
> have
> >> knocked off the Prolific chip and flooded the market with counterfeit
> chips
> >> marked Prolific, but are NOT Prolific brand.  These counterfeit chips
> have
> >> flooded the electronics parts supply chain, and therefore, have been
> >> inadvertently used in even legitimate companies' USB adapters (even
> >> name-brand companies).  To protect themselves, Prolific finally changed
> >> their drivers so that their drivers are on the lookout for bogus chips.
> I
> >> think those Prolific drivers are part of the Microsoft Plug-n-Play
> >> devices.  If the new Windows driver finds a counterfeit chip being used
> on
> >> the system, the driver will give a warning and disable the device by
> >> overwriting the driver on your system. With the RPi running its version
> of
> >> Linux, I?ve scratched my head trying to get gettys to run right because
> it
> >> might show the login prompt, but either not accept characters, or it
> >> accepts characters but would not give me a Password prompt, so I
> couldn't
> >> get logged in. Searching on the internet, I saw other people had
> problems
> >> with the Linux drivers too.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> So I?ve given up on Prolific and only use devices which use the FTDI
> >> chipset. If a device doesn't specifically say it uses the FTDI chipset,
> >> chances are it doesn't, so I don?t bother with it.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Recently I?ve had great luck with Gearmo 4-Port RS232 to USB FTDI chip
> >> Adapter w/RX and TX Status LEDs (
> >> https://www.amazon.com/Gearmo-Port-RS232-Adapter-Status/dp/B08P24ZQ1B
> >> $44). It comes in a version that doesn't have the status LEDs for a few
> >> dollars cheaper, but LEDs are well-worth it when trying to debug
> something.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> If you only need one RS-232 port, I can recommend Gearmo's USB to Serial
> >> RS-232 Adapter with LED Indicators FTDI Chipset (
> >> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AHYJWWG   $23).
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The only thing I can't verify is if it goes down to 110 baud (I don't
> >> have a 110-baud device in the same location).  I did connect Ports 1 & 2
> >> together (via a null modem connector) and opened two putty sessions set
> for
> >> 110 baud, 8 bits, 1 stop, no parity, xon/xoff, and it seemed to work (I
> >> could send characters back and forth between windows).  I used putty
> >> version 0.78 on Windows 11 and a command line of: "C:\Chuck> putty
> >> -serial COM5 -sercfg 110,8,1,n,X" because I could never correctly
> configure
> >> putty with its GUI.  However, when I opened a putty session for 300 baud
> >> and kept the other at 110, I expected I couldn?t communicate between
> them,
> >> but lo and behold, it worked anyway, so I?m not sure it actually went
> down
> >> to 110 and 300 baud.  Maybe it defaults to a certain speed if someone
> tries
> >> to give it a speed it can't handle.  Like I said, I don?t have a 110
> baud
> >> terminal in the same location so I couldn?t really verify 110 or 300
> baud
> >> operation, but sometime I will and report back.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hope the above helps.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Chuck
> >> W9CFR
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jan 8, 2024 at 2:36?PM Tom Lake <tlake at twcny.rr.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I have a PiDP-11 as well and the Teletype works fine with it. I replace
> >>> the PiDP-11 with the Pi 5 using the same RS-232 converter and I can?t
> log
> >>> into Linux with the Teletype.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> *From:* Michael Katzmann <vk2bea at gmail.com>
> >>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 4, 2024 5:33 PM
> >>> *To:* tlake at twcny.rr.com
> >>> *Cc:* greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
> >>> *Subject:* Re: [GreenKeys] Interface ASR33 to Linux serial port
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I've got a PiDP11 with a 33 attached.
> >>>
> >>> Usually the 33 is driven off the PDP11/70 SIMH emulator.
> >>>
> >>> I tried running the agetty command as you showed and it looks like it
> >>> worked (except bash is confused for some reason)
> >>>
> >>> The OS is Raspbian (32 bit) but its pretty close to Ubuntu (both based
> >>> on Debian). I favour Fedora myself!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Michael
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 3:52?PM Tom Lake <tlake at twcny.rr.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I have an Ubuntu 23.10 system with agetty running on its eight serial
> >>> ports. I can hook up most terminals to the ports and login to a bash
> shell.
> >>>
> >>> When I try to use a Teletype ASR 33, however, I get the login prompt
> and
> >>> I answer enter the username. If I hit Return, nothing happens. If I hot
> >>> Line Feed, the Password prompt is shown.
> >>>
> >>> After I enter the password (all uppercase) Incorrect password is shown.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Since the prompts are displayed properly, I?m pretty sure the baud
> rate,
> >>> BPS and stop bits are correct. What else can I check?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I start agetty this way:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> agetty  -L -U ttyUSB0 110 tty
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The -L means it?s a dedicated line, not dial-in. The -U means the
> >>> terminal is uppercase only and some upper/lowercase conversions should
> be
> >>> made.
> >>>
> >>> The port is a USB to serial port (ttyUSB0), baud is 110.
> >>>
> >>> ______________________________________________________________
> >>> GreenKeys mailing list
> >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> >>>
> >>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> >>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> >>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> >>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> >>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> >>>
> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >>> Message delivered to vk2bea at gmail.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>>    |\      _,,,---,,_             Michael Katzmann
> >>>    /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_         NV3Z / VK2BEA / G4NYV
> >>>   |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'
> >>>  '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ______________________________________________________________
> >>> GreenKeys mailing list
> >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> >>>
> >>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> >>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> >>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> >>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> >>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> >>>
> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >>> Message delivered to chuck at rehor.com
> >>>
> >> ______________________________________________________________
> >> GreenKeys mailing list
> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> >>
> >> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> >> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> >> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> >> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> >> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> >>
> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >> Message delivered to mooreericnyc at gmail.com
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > GreenKeys mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> >
> > >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> > https://teletype.net/gksearch
> > >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> > http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> > >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> > http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> > >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> > http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to vk2bea at gmail.com
>
>
>
> --
>    |\      _,,,---,,_             Michael Katzmann
>    /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_         NV3Z / VK2BEA / G4NYV
>   |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'
>  '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>
>
> End of GreenKeys Digest, Vol 240, Issue 10
> ******************************************
>
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From fretless52 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 14 10:04:19 2024
From: fretless52 at gmail.com (fretless)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2024 09:04:19 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] Interface ASR33 to Linux serial port
In-Reply-To: <mailman.18861.1704824200.25502.greenkeys@mailman.qth.net>
References: <mailman.18861.1704824200.25502.greenkeys@mailman.qth.net>
Message-ID: <CAHT9AKRS6wH7q3HQBpHbMK24+1nGybqGrtFdqKarO-bvSSf9-g@mail.gmail.com>

*** Sorry. I hope this one doesn't screw up the subject line this time***

Nice work Michael.
In Jan/Feb 2021 I was working with Johan at kernel.org trying
to get my Prolific dongle to work with my 33.  It worked fine in
Windows so I knew it wasn't a hardware issue.  I was able to
hard code the USB initialization string that I captured in Windows
into the Linux driver and get it to work at 110b, but I was not able
to figure out how to modify the code to generate the string
automatically using the divisor routine.

I was still receiving updates from kernel.org a few weeks later and
saw where you were having the same issue and were eventually
able to get the driver to generate the correct initialization string.

I had to put my 33 in storage shortly after that and haven't been able to
use it.  Hopefully, I will be retrieving it soon.

Joe

On Tue, Jan 9, 2024 at 12:20?PM <greenkeys-request at mailman.qth.net> wrote:

>
>
> I did some work on the Linux Prolific driver to get it to work with
> arbitrary baud rates (e.g. 110). There are several variants and the one I
> had did not give the right speed when set to 100. I was able to reverse
> engineer it (with a lot of trial and error) and now AFAIK all the
> variants now work.
> https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/drivers/usb/serial/pl2303.c
>
> Michael
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 9, 2024 at 12:38?PM Eric Moore <mooreericnyc at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > DriverGenius 4 Port USB to Serial RS232 DB9 Adapter Coverter with 12 X
> > LEDs - Win11 & Mac (4XRS232, Metal) https://a.co/d/6xXQ0fy
> >
> > This is what I use, definitely does 110 baud on all 4 ports, should do
> > lower.
> >
> > Uses the PL2303 I think, the FTDI I have had issues at low speeds.
> >
> > -Eric
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 9, 2024, 11:13?AM Chuck Rehor <chuck at rehor.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi GreenKeyers,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> In the past for my RS-232 projects when I?ve needed serial
> >> communications, I ran into unexplained problems with USB-to-RS232-Serial
> >> converters incorporating the Prolific chipset. Since Prolific has become
> >> so, well, prolific, it has a huge market share, so foreign companies
> have
> >> knocked off the Prolific chip and flooded the market with counterfeit
> chips
> >> marked Prolific, but are NOT Prolific brand.  These counterfeit chips
> have
> >> flooded the electronics parts supply chain, and therefore, have been
> >> inadvertently used in even legitimate companies' USB adapters (even
> >> name-brand companies).  To protect themselves, Prolific finally changed
> >> their drivers so that their drivers are on the lookout for bogus chips.
> I
> >> think those Prolific drivers are part of the Microsoft Plug-n-Play
> >> devices.  If the new Windows driver finds a counterfeit chip being used
> on
> >> the system, the driver will give a warning and disable the device by
> >> overwriting the driver on your system. With the RPi running its version
> of
> >> Linux, I?ve scratched my head trying to get gettys to run right because
> it
> >> might show the login prompt, but either not accept characters, or it
> >> accepts characters but would not give me a Password prompt, so I
> couldn't
> >> get logged in. Searching on the internet, I saw other people had
> problems
> >> with the Linux drivers too.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> So I?ve given up on Prolific and only use devices which use the FTDI
> >> chipset. If a device doesn't specifically say it uses the FTDI chipset,
> >> chances are it doesn't, so I don?t bother with it.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Recently I?ve had great luck with Gearmo 4-Port RS232 to USB FTDI chip
> >> Adapter w/RX and TX Status LEDs (
> >> https://www.amazon.com/Gearmo-Port-RS232-Adapter-Status/dp/B08P24ZQ1B
> >> $44). It comes in a version that doesn't have the status LEDs for a few
> >> dollars cheaper, but LEDs are well-worth it when trying to debug
> something.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> If you only need one RS-232 port, I can recommend Gearmo's USB to Serial
> >> RS-232 Adapter with LED Indicators FTDI Chipset (
> >> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AHYJWWG   $23).
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The only thing I can't verify is if it goes down to 110 baud (I don't
> >> have a 110-baud device in the same location).  I did connect Ports 1 & 2
> >> together (via a null modem connector) and opened two putty sessions set
> for
> >> 110 baud, 8 bits, 1 stop, no parity, xon/xoff, and it seemed to work (I
> >> could send characters back and forth between windows).  I used putty
> >> version 0.78 on Windows 11 and a command line of: "C:\Chuck> putty
> >> -serial COM5 -sercfg 110,8,1,n,X" because I could never correctly
> configure
> >> putty with its GUI.  However, when I opened a putty session for 300 baud
> >> and kept the other at 110, I expected I couldn?t communicate between
> them,
> >> but lo and behold, it worked anyway, so I?m not sure it actually went
> down
> >> to 110 and 300 baud.  Maybe it defaults to a certain speed if someone
> tries
> >> to give it a speed it can't handle.  Like I said, I don?t have a 110
> baud
> >> terminal in the same location so I couldn?t really verify 110 or 300
> baud
> >> operation, but sometime I will and report back.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hope the above helps.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Chuck
> >> W9CFR
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jan 8, 2024 at 2:36?PM Tom Lake <tlake at twcny.rr.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I have a PiDP-11 as well and the Teletype works fine with it. I replace
> >>> the PiDP-11 with the Pi 5 using the same RS-232 converter and I can?t
> log
> >>> into Linux with the Teletype.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> *From:* Michael Katzmann <vk2bea at gmail.com>
> >>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 4, 2024 5:33 PM
> >>> *To:* tlake at twcny.rr.com
> >>> *Cc:* greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
> >>> *Subject:* Re: [GreenKeys] Interface ASR33 to Linux serial port
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I've got a PiDP11 with a 33 attached.
> >>>
> >>> Usually the 33 is driven off the PDP11/70 SIMH emulator.
> >>>
> >>> I tried running the agetty command as you showed and it looks like it
> >>> worked (except bash is confused for some reason)
> >>>
> >>> The OS is Raspbian (32 bit) but its pretty close to Ubuntu (both based
> >>> on Debian). I favour Fedora myself!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Michael
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 3:52?PM Tom Lake <tlake at twcny.rr.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I have an Ubuntu 23.10 system with agetty running on its eight serial
> >>> ports. I can hook up most terminals to the ports and login to a bash
> shell.
> >>>
> >>> When I try to use a Teletype ASR 33, however, I get the login prompt
> and
> >>> I answer enter the username. If I hit Return, nothing happens. If I hot
> >>> Line Feed, the Password prompt is shown.
> >>>
> >>> After I enter the password (all uppercase) Incorrect password is shown.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Since the prompts are displayed properly, I?m pretty sure the baud
> rate,
> >>> BPS and stop bits are correct. What else can I check?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I start agetty this way:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> agetty  -L -U ttyUSB0 110 tty
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The -L means it?s a dedicated line, not dial-in. The -U means the
> >>> terminal is uppercase only and some upper/lowercase conversions should
> be
> >>> made.
> >>>
> >>> The port is a USB to serial port (ttyUSB0), baud is 110.
> >>>
> >>> ______________________________________________________________
> >>> GreenKeys mailing list
> >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> >>>
> >>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> >>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> >>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> >>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> >>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> >>>
> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >>> Message delivered to vk2bea at gmail.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>>    |\      _,,,---,,_             Michael Katzmann
> >>>    /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_         NV3Z / VK2BEA / G4NYV
> >>>   |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'
> >>>  '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ______________________________________________________________
> >>> GreenKeys mailing list
> >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> >>>
> >>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> >>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> >>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> >>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> >>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> >>>
> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >>> Message delivered to chuck at rehor.com
> >>>
> >> ______________________________________________________________
> >> GreenKeys mailing list
> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> >>
> >> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> >> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> >> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> >> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> >> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> >>
> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >> Message delivered to mooreericnyc at gmail.com
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > GreenKeys mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> >
> > >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> > https://teletype.net/gksearch
> > >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> > http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> > >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> > http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> > >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> > http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to vk2bea at gmail.com
>
>
>
> --
>    |\      _,,,---,,_             Michael Katzmann
>    /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_         NV3Z / VK2BEA / G4NYV
>   |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'
>  '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>
>
> End of GreenKeys Digest, Vol 240, Issue 10
> ******************************************
>
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From vk2bea at gmail.com  Sun Jan 14 18:55:14 2024
From: vk2bea at gmail.com (Michael Katzmann)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2024 18:55:14 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Interface ASR33 to Linux serial port
In-Reply-To: <CAHT9AKRS6wH7q3HQBpHbMK24+1nGybqGrtFdqKarO-bvSSf9-g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.18861.1704824200.25502.greenkeys@mailman.qth.net>
	<CAHT9AKRS6wH7q3HQBpHbMK24+1nGybqGrtFdqKarO-bvSSf9-g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMyt5OQPd-19oUcy_enU-Gm4kxVXAMZTV2OPNvtPrYG10HPpqg@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, Johan helped me submit the patch and also corresponded with a chap at
Prolific (although from memory he was only useful in confirming we were on
the right track).
The version I worked on was the TA variant. I think there are newer
versions but the TA is .... prolific ?

https://github.com/torvalds/linux/commit/764de1059b97ca1fe8fe023bb10e736772945c87

Michael


On Sun, Jan 14, 2024, 17:29 fretless <fretless52 at gmail.com> wrote:

> *** Sorry. I hope this one doesn't screw up the subject line this time***
>
> Nice work Michael.
> In Jan/Feb 2021 I was working with Johan at kernel.org trying
> to get my Prolific dongle to work with my 33.  It worked fine in
> Windows so I knew it wasn't a hardware issue.  I was able to
> hard code the USB initialization string that I captured in Windows
> into the Linux driver and get it to work at 110b, but I was not able
> to figure out how to modify the code to generate the string
> automatically using the divisor routine.
>
> I was still receiving updates from kernel.org a few weeks later and
> saw where you were having the same issue and were eventually
> able to get the driver to generate the correct initialization string.
>
> I had to put my 33 in storage shortly after that and haven't been able to
> use it.  Hopefully, I will be retrieving it soon.
>
> Joe
>
> On Tue, Jan 9, 2024 at 12:20?PM <greenkeys-request at mailman.qth.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I did some work on the Linux Prolific driver to get it to work with
>> arbitrary baud rates (e.g. 110). There are several variants and the one I
>> had did not give the right speed when set to 100. I was able to reverse
>> engineer it (with a lot of trial and error) and now AFAIK all the
>> variants now work.
>> https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/drivers/usb/serial/pl2303.c
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 9, 2024 at 12:38?PM Eric Moore <mooreericnyc at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > DriverGenius 4 Port USB to Serial RS232 DB9 Adapter Coverter with 12 X
>> > LEDs - Win11 & Mac (4XRS232, Metal) https://a.co/d/6xXQ0fy
>> >
>> > This is what I use, definitely does 110 baud on all 4 ports, should do
>> > lower.
>> >
>> > Uses the PL2303 I think, the FTDI I have had issues at low speeds.
>> >
>> > -Eric
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, Jan 9, 2024, 11:13?AM Chuck Rehor <chuck at rehor.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi GreenKeyers,
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> In the past for my RS-232 projects when I?ve needed serial
>> >> communications, I ran into unexplained problems with
>> USB-to-RS232-Serial
>> >> converters incorporating the Prolific chipset. Since Prolific has
>> become
>> >> so, well, prolific, it has a huge market share, so foreign companies
>> have
>> >> knocked off the Prolific chip and flooded the market with counterfeit
>> chips
>> >> marked Prolific, but are NOT Prolific brand.  These counterfeit chips
>> have
>> >> flooded the electronics parts supply chain, and therefore, have been
>> >> inadvertently used in even legitimate companies' USB adapters (even
>> >> name-brand companies).  To protect themselves, Prolific finally changed
>> >> their drivers so that their drivers are on the lookout for bogus
>> chips. I
>> >> think those Prolific drivers are part of the Microsoft Plug-n-Play
>> >> devices.  If the new Windows driver finds a counterfeit chip being
>> used on
>> >> the system, the driver will give a warning and disable the device by
>> >> overwriting the driver on your system. With the RPi running its
>> version of
>> >> Linux, I?ve scratched my head trying to get gettys to run right
>> because it
>> >> might show the login prompt, but either not accept characters, or it
>> >> accepts characters but would not give me a Password prompt, so I
>> couldn't
>> >> get logged in. Searching on the internet, I saw other people had
>> problems
>> >> with the Linux drivers too.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> So I?ve given up on Prolific and only use devices which use the FTDI
>> >> chipset. If a device doesn't specifically say it uses the FTDI chipset,
>> >> chances are it doesn't, so I don?t bother with it.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Recently I?ve had great luck with Gearmo 4-Port RS232 to USB FTDI chip
>> >> Adapter w/RX and TX Status LEDs (
>> >> https://www.amazon.com/Gearmo-Port-RS232-Adapter-Status/dp/B08P24ZQ1B
>> >> $44). It comes in a version that doesn't have the status LEDs for a few
>> >> dollars cheaper, but LEDs are well-worth it when trying to debug
>> something.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> If you only need one RS-232 port, I can recommend Gearmo's USB to
>> Serial
>> >> RS-232 Adapter with LED Indicators FTDI Chipset (
>> >> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AHYJWWG   $23).
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> The only thing I can't verify is if it goes down to 110 baud (I don't
>> >> have a 110-baud device in the same location).  I did connect Ports 1 &
>> 2
>> >> together (via a null modem connector) and opened two putty sessions
>> set for
>> >> 110 baud, 8 bits, 1 stop, no parity, xon/xoff, and it seemed to work (I
>> >> could send characters back and forth between windows).  I used putty
>> >> version 0.78 on Windows 11 and a command line of: "C:\Chuck> putty
>> >> -serial COM5 -sercfg 110,8,1,n,X" because I could never correctly
>> configure
>> >> putty with its GUI.  However, when I opened a putty session for 300
>> baud
>> >> and kept the other at 110, I expected I couldn?t communicate between
>> them,
>> >> but lo and behold, it worked anyway, so I?m not sure it actually went
>> down
>> >> to 110 and 300 baud.  Maybe it defaults to a certain speed if someone
>> tries
>> >> to give it a speed it can't handle.  Like I said, I don?t have a 110
>> baud
>> >> terminal in the same location so I couldn?t really verify 110 or 300
>> baud
>> >> operation, but sometime I will and report back.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Hope the above helps.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Chuck
>> >> W9CFR
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Jan 8, 2024 at 2:36?PM Tom Lake <tlake at twcny.rr.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> I have a PiDP-11 as well and the Teletype works fine with it. I
>> replace
>> >>> the PiDP-11 with the Pi 5 using the same RS-232 converter and I can?t
>> log
>> >>> into Linux with the Teletype.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> *From:* Michael Katzmann <vk2bea at gmail.com>
>> >>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 4, 2024 5:33 PM
>> >>> *To:* tlake at twcny.rr.com
>> >>> *Cc:* greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
>> >>> *Subject:* Re: [GreenKeys] Interface ASR33 to Linux serial port
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> I've got a PiDP11 with a 33 attached.
>> >>>
>> >>> Usually the 33 is driven off the PDP11/70 SIMH emulator.
>> >>>
>> >>> I tried running the agetty command as you showed and it looks like it
>> >>> worked (except bash is confused for some reason)
>> >>>
>> >>> The OS is Raspbian (32 bit) but its pretty close to Ubuntu (both based
>> >>> on Debian). I favour Fedora myself!
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Michael
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 3:52?PM Tom Lake <tlake at twcny.rr.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> I have an Ubuntu 23.10 system with agetty running on its eight serial
>> >>> ports. I can hook up most terminals to the ports and login to a bash
>> shell.
>> >>>
>> >>> When I try to use a Teletype ASR 33, however, I get the login prompt
>> and
>> >>> I answer enter the username. If I hit Return, nothing happens. If I
>> hot
>> >>> Line Feed, the Password prompt is shown.
>> >>>
>> >>> After I enter the password (all uppercase) Incorrect password is
>> shown.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Since the prompts are displayed properly, I?m pretty sure the baud
>> rate,
>> >>> BPS and stop bits are correct. What else can I check?
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> I start agetty this way:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> agetty  -L -U ttyUSB0 110 tty
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> The -L means it?s a dedicated line, not dial-in. The -U means the
>> >>> terminal is uppercase only and some upper/lowercase conversions
>> should be
>> >>> made.
>> >>>
>> >>> The port is a USB to serial port (ttyUSB0), baud is 110.
>> >>>
>> >>> ______________________________________________________________
>> >>> GreenKeys mailing list
>> >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>> >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> >>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>> >>>
>> >>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> >>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>> >>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>> >>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>> >>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>> >>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>> >>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> >>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>> >>>
>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> >>> Message delivered to vk2bea at gmail.com
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>>
>> >>>    |\      _,,,---,,_             Michael Katzmann
>> >>>    /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_         NV3Z / VK2BEA / G4NYV
>> >>>   |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'
>> >>>  '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> ______________________________________________________________
>> >>> GreenKeys mailing list
>> >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>> >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> >>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>> >>>
>> >>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> >>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>> >>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>> >>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>> >>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>> >>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>> >>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> >>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>> >>>
>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> >>> Message delivered to chuck at rehor.com
>> >>>
>> >> ______________________________________________________________
>> >> GreenKeys mailing list
>> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> >> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>> >>
>> >> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> >> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>> >> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>> >> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>> >> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>> >> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>> >> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> >> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>> >>
>> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> >> Message delivered to mooreericnyc at gmail.com
>> >
>> > ______________________________________________________________
>> > GreenKeys mailing list
>> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> > Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>> >
>> > >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> > https://teletype.net/gksearch
>> > >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>> > http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>> > >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>> > http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>> > >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> > http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>> >
>> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> > Message delivered to vk2bea at gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>    |\      _,,,---,,_             Michael Katzmann
>>    /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_         NV3Z / VK2BEA / G4NYV
>>   |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'
>>  '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GreenKeys mailing list
>> GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>>
>>
>> End of GreenKeys Digest, Vol 240, Issue 10
>> ******************************************
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to vk2bea at gmail.com
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From paul0926 at comcast.net  Sun Jan 14 20:32:22 2024
From: paul0926 at comcast.net (Paul Heller)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2024 18:32:22 -0700
Subject: [GreenKeys] ITTY Autostart will be down
Message-ID: <CCBD04A9-4854-4041-89CB-919125E6FCAE@comcast.net>

The Autostart machine died. It will be offline for a bit while I rebuild it

Paul
W2TTY



From paul0926 at comcast.net  Sun Jan 14 22:51:46 2024
From: paul0926 at comcast.net (Paul Heller)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2024 20:51:46 -0700
Subject: [GreenKeys] ITTY Autostart is back online
Message-ID: <29190D48-5A36-4D8B-9CB1-09C9DEFA5232@comcast.net>


Paul



From mmcauley at cox.net  Sun Jan 14 23:47:00 2024
From: mmcauley at cox.net (Mike McAuley)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2024 21:47:00 -0700
Subject: [GreenKeys] M28 & M15 available - Phoenix
Message-ID: <mailman.205.1705294040.25499.greenkeys@mailman.qth.net>

No affiliation, just passing it along...https://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/ele/d/gold-canyon-teletype-equipment/7707618865.htmlMikeKD7VRG
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From navy.radio at gmail.com  Mon Jan 15 13:30:05 2024
From: navy.radio at gmail.com (Nick England)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2024 13:30:05 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] FWIW AN/URA-6 and AN/URA-7 FSK Converter manual on line
Message-ID: <CAB55hNdYu1B5ic3YQ7nRe4VVXH7uJa1ivoTdw7S-Q1ULi3hqdQ@mail.gmail.com>

These FSK converters connect to the IF of a receiver
https://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/ura6-ura7-cv57-91355-5008.pdf

URA-6 has two CV-57 converters (for 455kc IF) and a CM-14 diversity
comparator
URA-7 has two CV-71 converters (for 50kc IF) and a CM-14 diversity
comparator

They are big, heavy, connect to teletypes, and painted gray - what's not to
love?
https://www.navy-radio.com/rtty/conv/ura6-w5jv-03.jpg
(photo thanks to W5JV)

Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com
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From w2hx at w2hx.com  Mon Jan 15 13:48:41 2024
From: w2hx at w2hx.com (W2HX)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2024 18:48:41 +0000
Subject: [GreenKeys] FWIW AN/URA-6 and AN/URA-7 FSK Converter manual on
 line
In-Reply-To: <CAB55hNdYu1B5ic3YQ7nRe4VVXH7uJa1ivoTdw7S-Q1ULi3hqdQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB55hNdYu1B5ic3YQ7nRe4VVXH7uJa1ivoTdw7S-Q1ULi3hqdQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BL1PR12MB52699D391DCA7779A5669AEBB56C2@BL1PR12MB5269.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

Things of beauty


73 Eugene W2HX
My Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@w2hx/videos

From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net <greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net> On Behalf Of Nick England
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2024 1:30 PM
To: Greenkeys <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: [GreenKeys] FWIW AN/URA-6 and AN/URA-7 FSK Converter manual on line

These FSK converters connect to the IF of a receiver
https://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/ura6-ura7-cv57-91355-5008.pdf

URA-6 has two CV-57 converters (for 455kc IF) and a CM-14 diversity comparator
URA-7 has two CV-71 converters (for 50kc IF) and a CM-14 diversity comparator

They are big, heavy, connect to teletypes, and painted gray - what's not to love?
https://www.navy-radio.com/rtty/conv/ura6-w5jv-03.jpg
(photo thanks to W5JV)

Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com<http://www.navy-radio.com>
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From georgeengeman at aol.com  Tue Jan 16 03:00:10 2024
From: georgeengeman at aol.com (georgeengeman at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2024 08:00:10 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [GreenKeys] FWIW AN/URA-6 and AN/URA-7 FSK Converter manual on
 line
In-Reply-To: <CAB55hNdYu1B5ic3YQ7nRe4VVXH7uJa1ivoTdw7S-Q1ULi3hqdQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB55hNdYu1B5ic3YQ7nRe4VVXH7uJa1ivoTdw7S-Q1ULi3hqdQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <114001428.1491449.1705392010538@mail.yahoo.com>

 Thank you, Nick, for scanning and archiving the Navships 91355 manual.? A CV-57 is in my rack for use with the R-388/51J receiver which has a 500 kc IF output.? (A re-tuning of the input unit in this converter allows 500 kc input.)? Your scan will help me a lot since I've only been looking for a copy of the manual for some 30+ years!Thanks and 73, George W6BN
    On Monday, January 15, 2024 at 10:30:37 AM PST, Nick England <navy.radio at gmail.com> wrote:  
 
 These FSK converters connect to the IF of a receiverhttps://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/ura6-ura7-cv57-91355-5008.pdf
URA-6 has two CV-57 converters (for 455kc IF) and a CM-14 diversity comparatorURA-7 has two CV-71 converters (for 50kc IF) and a CM-14 diversity comparator
They are big, heavy, connect to teletypes, and painted gray - what's not to love?https://www.navy-radio.com/rtty/conv/ura6-w5jv-03.jpg(photo thanks to W5JV)
Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com
______________________________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net

>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to georgeengeman at aol.com  
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From pbirkel at gmail.com  Wed Jan 17 11:24:31 2024
From: pbirkel at gmail.com (pbirkel at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2024 11:24:31 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] BRPE11
Message-ID: <02f901da4961$a6b0c930$f4125b90$@gmail.com>

Of possible interest is a poorly identified (and a bit rough) BRPE11 on
eBay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/296166916217

 

I suspect from other sources
(https://museum.wales/collections/online/object/a7dea37f-0f0a-3cfc-833e-f22b
59972974/Paper-tape-puncher/) that's a BRPE6 base -- hence the electrical
support for an 8-level punch.  However the CDC 160 used the BRPE11 and that
was a 7-level paper I/O system.  So apparently this may be a 7-level unit.
The vendor confirmed that there are only 4 relays/solenoids on the right.  I
think that the mechanics and tape feed ought to work fine as a 6-level unit
given the design of my BRPE21 tape feed mechanism.

 

I've suggested that the seller remove the punch cover and post suitable
pictures.  And relabel the listing appropriately!

 

Unfortunately this unit falls in the valley between supporting the much more
common 5-level and 8-level tapes.

 

Interestingly
https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/objects/co62588/westrex-8-hole-
paper-tape-punch-punch claims that a "Westrex" unit used a BRPE11, yet was
"8 hole".  I suspect that they included the feed hole in the count.

 

The "laid back" reel support is interesting (ignoring the fact that the reel
isn't properly engaged in the photo).  That design is confirmed by:
https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102696402 

 

paul

 

 

 

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From w2hx at w2hx.com  Wed Jan 17 11:40:01 2024
From: w2hx at w2hx.com (W2HX)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2024 16:40:01 +0000
Subject: [GreenKeys] BRPE11
In-Reply-To: <02f901da4961$a6b0c930$f4125b90$@gmail.com>
References: <02f901da4961$a6b0c930$f4125b90$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BL1PR12MB5269F5C38231CD646D5F1EE5B5722@BL1PR12MB5269.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

Interesting that the sellers says the tape is 11/16th wide. Did they fit 6 or 7 bits into 11/16th? 8 bits was typically 1" wide


73 Eugene W2HX
My Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@w2hx/videos

From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net <greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net> On Behalf Of pbirkel at gmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2024 11:25 AM
To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: [GreenKeys] BRPE11

Of possible interest is a poorly identified (and a bit rough) BRPE11 on eBay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/296166916217


I suspect from other sources (https://museum.wales/collections/online/object/a7dea37f-0f0a-3cfc-833e-f22b59972974/Paper-tape-puncher/) that's a BRPE6 base -- hence the electrical support for an 8-level punch.  However the CDC 160 used the BRPE11 and that was a 7-level paper I/O system.  So apparently this may be a 7-level unit.  The vendor confirmed that there are only 4 relays/solenoids on the right.  I think that the mechanics and tape feed ought to work fine as a 6-level unit given the design of my BRPE21 tape feed mechanism.



I've suggested that the seller remove the punch cover and post suitable pictures.  And relabel the listing appropriately!



Unfortunately this unit falls in the valley between supporting the much more common 5-level and 8-level tapes.



Interestingly https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/objects/co62588/westrex-8-hole-paper-tape-punch-punch claims that a "Westrex" unit used a BRPE11, yet was "8 hole".  I suspect that they included the feed hole in the count.



The "laid back" reel support is interesting (ignoring the fact that the reel isn't properly engaged in the photo).  That design is confirmed by:  https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102696402



paul





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From mooreericnyc at gmail.com  Wed Jan 17 11:42:24 2024
From: mooreericnyc at gmail.com (Eric Moore)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2024 10:42:24 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] BRPE11
In-Reply-To: <02f901da4961$a6b0c930$f4125b90$@gmail.com>
References: <02f901da4961$a6b0c930$f4125b90$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAE1er56vy3DFY2FHmHbYDTueZk3Xzdkb3fN_wXoSUHJJRMDHSQ@mail.gmail.com>

This may be perfect for the MIT whirlwind if it is really 7 level. I hope
the seller posts better pics.

As one of the like 3 BRPE owners, I publicly state I will not be bidding ?



On Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 10:26?AM <pbirkel at gmail.com> wrote:

> Of possible interest is a poorly identified (and a bit rough) BRPE11 on
> eBay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/296166916217
>
>
>
> I suspect from other sources (
> https://museum.wales/collections/online/object/a7dea37f-0f0a-3cfc-833e-f22b59972974/Paper-tape-puncher/)
> that?s a BRPE6 base -- hence the electrical support for an 8-level punch.
> However the CDC 160 used the BRPE11 and that was a 7-level paper I/O
> system.  So apparently this may be a 7-level unit.  The vendor confirmed
> that there are only 4 relays/solenoids on the right.  I think that the
> mechanics and tape feed ought to work fine as a 6-level unit given the
> design of my BRPE21 tape feed mechanism.
>
>
>
> I?ve suggested that the seller remove the punch cover and post suitable
> pictures.  And relabel the listing appropriately!
>
>
>
> Unfortunately this unit falls in the valley between supporting the much
> more common 5-level and 8-level tapes.
>
>
>
> Interestingly
> https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/objects/co62588/westrex-8-hole-paper-tape-punch-punch
> claims that a ?Westrex? unit used a BRPE11, yet was ?8 hole?.  I suspect
> that they included the feed hole in the count.
>
>
>
> The "laid back" reel support is interesting (ignoring the fact that the
> reel isn't properly engaged in the photo).  That design is confirmed by:
> https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102696402
>
>
>
> paul
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to mooreericnyc at gmail.com
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From pbirkel at gmail.com  Wed Jan 17 11:53:02 2024
From: pbirkel at gmail.com (pbirkel at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2024 11:53:02 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] BRPE11
In-Reply-To: <BL1PR12MB5269F5C38231CD646D5F1EE5B5722@BL1PR12MB5269.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
References: <02f901da4961$a6b0c930$f4125b90$@gmail.com>
	<BL1PR12MB5269F5C38231CD646D5F1EE5B5722@BL1PR12MB5269.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <030e01da4965$a2941830$e7bc4890$@gmail.com>

See: https://www.navy-radio.com/tty/brpe/hole-config.jpg

 

The seller doesn't seem to be very knowledgeable.

 

From: W2HX <w2hx at w2hx.com> 
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2024 11:40 AM
To: pbirkel at gmail.com; greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: RE: [GreenKeys] BRPE11

 

Interesting that the sellers says the tape is 11/16th wide. Did they fit 6
or 7 bits into 11/16th? 8 bits was typically 1" wide

 

73 Eugene W2HX
My Youtube Channel:  <https://www.youtube.com/@w2hx/videos>
https://www.youtube.com/@w2hx/videos

 

 

From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net
<mailto:greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net>
<greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net
<mailto:greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net> > On Behalf Of pbirkel at gmail.com
<mailto:pbirkel at gmail.com> 
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2024 11:25 AM
To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net <mailto:greenkeys at mailman.qth.net> 
Subject: [GreenKeys] BRPE11

 

Of possible interest is a poorly identified (and a bit rough) BRPE11 on
eBay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/296166916217

 

I suspect from other sources
(https://museum.wales/collections/online/object/a7dea37f-0f0a-3cfc-833e-f22b
59972974/Paper-tape-puncher/) that's a BRPE6 base -- hence the electrical
support for an 8-level punch.  However the CDC 160 used the BRPE11 and that
was a 7-level paper I/O system.  So apparently this may be a 7-level unit.
The vendor confirmed that there are only 4 relays/solenoids on the right.  I
think that the mechanics and tape feed ought to work fine as a 6-level unit
given the design of my BRPE21 tape feed mechanism.

 

I've suggested that the seller remove the punch cover and post suitable
pictures.  And relabel the listing appropriately!

 

Unfortunately this unit falls in the valley between supporting the much more
common 5-level and 8-level tapes.

 

Interestingly
https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/objects/co62588/westrex-8-hole-
paper-tape-punch-punch claims that a "Westrex" unit used a BRPE11, yet was
"8 hole".  I suspect that they included the feed hole in the count.

 

The "laid back" reel support is interesting (ignoring the fact that the reel
isn't properly engaged in the photo).  That design is confirmed by:
https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102696402 

 

paul

 

 

 

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From navy.radio at gmail.com  Wed Jan 17 13:00:28 2024
From: navy.radio at gmail.com (Nick England)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2024 13:00:28 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] BRPE11
In-Reply-To: <02f901da4961$a6b0c930$f4125b90$@gmail.com>
References: <02f901da4961$a6b0c930$f4125b90$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB55hNfz-9-zZ-NzA03NEcFuMuTBfdVMzg_3_+S23N-kcw49bA@mail.gmail.com>

According to the 1969 catalog, BRPE11 + BRPEB6 is
6 , 7 , or 8-level, 7/8" or 1" width, In-line feed hole
633 wpm
28VDC 1 ampere signal and tape feed out magnets
See pdf page 10
https://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/tty/tty-equip-price-1969-01.pdf

I thought that the parts book showed that the adjustable punch block would
handle 5-8 level?

I really need to get back to my BRPE project - I got a couple of the
typesetter 6-level units (with leading feed hole) and convinced some
machinist buddies that making a new 5-level in-line punch block would be a
"challenge". Now I need to build some driver electronics and figure out how
to feed it a character stream.
https://www.navy-radio.com/tty/brpe.htm

Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com


On Wed, Jan 17, 2024 at 11:25?AM <pbirkel at gmail.com> wrote:

> Of possible interest is a poorly identified (and a bit rough) BRPE11 on
> eBay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/296166916217
>
>
>
> I suspect from other sources (
> https://museum.wales/collections/online/object/a7dea37f-0f0a-3cfc-833e-f22b59972974/Paper-tape-puncher/)
> that?s a BRPE6 base -- hence the electrical support for an 8-level punch.
> However the CDC 160 used the BRPE11 and that was a 7-level paper I/O
> system.  So apparently this may be a 7-level unit.  The vendor confirmed
> that there are only 4 relays/solenoids on the right.  I think that the
> mechanics and tape feed ought to work fine as a 6-level unit given the
> design of my BRPE21 tape feed mechanism.
>
>
>
> I?ve suggested that the seller remove the punch cover and post suitable
> pictures.  And relabel the listing appropriately!
>
>
>
> Unfortunately this unit falls in the valley between supporting the much
> more common 5-level and 8-level tapes.
>
>
>
> Interestingly
> https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/objects/co62588/westrex-8-hole-paper-tape-punch-punch
> claims that a ?Westrex? unit used a BRPE11, yet was ?8 hole?.  I suspect
> that they included the feed hole in the count.
>
>
>
> The "laid back" reel support is interesting (ignoring the fact that the
> reel isn't properly engaged in the photo).  That design is confirmed by:
> https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102696402
>
>
>
> paul
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to navy.radio at gmail.com
>
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From navy.radio at gmail.com  Wed Jan 17 13:17:24 2024
From: navy.radio at gmail.com (Nick England)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2024 13:17:24 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] BRPE11
In-Reply-To: <CAB55hNfz-9-zZ-NzA03NEcFuMuTBfdVMzg_3_+S23N-kcw49bA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <02f901da4961$a6b0c930$f4125b90$@gmail.com>
	<CAB55hNfz-9-zZ-NzA03NEcFuMuTBfdVMzg_3_+S23N-kcw49bA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB55hNc+g+E6XM_dR-Q-GifDzbDRmiZ57mknh8bvCrza-GzDng@mail.gmail.com>

Correction -
I said " I thought that the parts book showed that the adjustable punch
block would handle 5-8 level?"
That is the 146261 punch block, but I missed 143056 which is 6-8 level,
7/8" or 1" tape - I suspect that's what the BRPE11 has.

Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com


On Wed, Jan 17, 2024 at 1:00?PM Nick England <navy.radio at gmail.com> wrote:

> According to the 1969 catalog, BRPE11 + BRPEB6 is
> 6 , 7 , or 8-level, 7/8" or 1" width, In-line feed hole
> 633 wpm
> 28VDC 1 ampere signal and tape feed out magnets
> See pdf page 10
> https://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/tty/tty-equip-price-1969-01.pdf
>
> I thought that the parts book showed that the adjustable punch block would
> handle 5-8 level?
>
> I really need to get back to my BRPE project - I got a couple of the
> typesetter 6-level units (with leading feed hole) and convinced some
> machinist buddies that making a new 5-level in-line punch block would be a
> "challenge". Now I need to build some driver electronics and figure out how
> to feed it a character stream.
> https://www.navy-radio.com/tty/brpe.htm
>
> Nick England K4NYW
> www.navy-radio.com
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 17, 2024 at 11:25?AM <pbirkel at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Of possible interest is a poorly identified (and a bit rough) BRPE11 on
>> eBay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/296166916217
>>
>>
>>
>> I suspect from other sources (
>> https://museum.wales/collections/online/object/a7dea37f-0f0a-3cfc-833e-f22b59972974/Paper-tape-puncher/)
>> that?s a BRPE6 base -- hence the electrical support for an 8-level punch.
>> However the CDC 160 used the BRPE11 and that was a 7-level paper I/O
>> system.  So apparently this may be a 7-level unit.  The vendor confirmed
>> that there are only 4 relays/solenoids on the right.  I think that the
>> mechanics and tape feed ought to work fine as a 6-level unit given the
>> design of my BRPE21 tape feed mechanism.
>>
>>
>>
>> I?ve suggested that the seller remove the punch cover and post suitable
>> pictures.  And relabel the listing appropriately!
>>
>>
>>
>> Unfortunately this unit falls in the valley between supporting the much
>> more common 5-level and 8-level tapes.
>>
>>
>>
>> Interestingly
>> https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/objects/co62588/westrex-8-hole-paper-tape-punch-punch
>> claims that a ?Westrex? unit used a BRPE11, yet was ?8 hole?.  I suspect
>> that they included the feed hole in the count.
>>
>>
>>
>> The "laid back" reel support is interesting (ignoring the fact that the
>> reel isn't properly engaged in the photo).  That design is confirmed by:
>> https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102696402
>>
>>
>>
>> paul
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> GreenKeys mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>
>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to navy.radio at gmail.com
>>
>
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From pbirkel at gmail.com  Thu Jan 18 06:27:40 2024
From: pbirkel at gmail.com (pbirkel at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2024 06:27:40 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] BRPE11
In-Reply-To: <CAB55hNc+g+E6XM_dR-Q-GifDzbDRmiZ57mknh8bvCrza-GzDng@mail.gmail.com>
References: <02f901da4961$a6b0c930$f4125b90$@gmail.com>
	<CAB55hNfz-9-zZ-NzA03NEcFuMuTBfdVMzg_3_+S23N-kcw49bA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAB55hNc+g+E6XM_dR-Q-GifDzbDRmiZ57mknh8bvCrza-GzDng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <009e01da4a01$58d110d0$0a733270$@gmail.com>

I?ve been guessing about the BRPEB6 based on the photo and ancillary sources.  It?s nice to see official confirmation on that point, and the 6 or 7-level capability.  Thank you for pointing that out :->.  The seller saw only 4 magnets on the right, so is it the case that the price list is for a ?generic? assembly and there are further variations (perhaps using the 143056 block but with or without the 9th magnet)?  I?ve asked the seller to take off the punch cover and post photos of the mechanism.

 

Based on my BRPE21, an 8-level (inline) punch block can indeed do-it-all.  The variations are handled by switching off selected magnets and/or reconfiguring the tape feed/positioning mechanism (the feed-pan snaps into two positions to align the guiding edge of the tape; see Figure 3 in 1154B_BRPE_Parts_Catalog_Dec1970.pdf).  Looking at Figure 4 the operation/use of the ?adjustable? mechanism is unclear.  My BRPE21, presumably with the 146261 block, has this mechanism.  My interpretation of the table is that it affects the positioning of the ?biasing spring? in order to handle the narrow 5-level 11/16? tape.  However PN 142897 and 146262 look like ?plates? to me, not even leaf springs.  1154B_BRPE_Parts_Catalog_Jul1960.pdf, Figure 1-6, is a bit clearer that 142897 is creating a tape contra-edge guide that is located just prior to the tape reaching the punch pins.  As 142897 is slotted, presumably it?s factory-set for 7/8? tape in the BRPE11.

 

The Figure 4 diagram of the ADJUSTABLE block appears to be incomplete as 146262 never enters the tape path, and it?s shaped differently in my BRPE21 there is instead a very small wire affixed to the back-side of that part that drops into the tape path, or not, depending on position.  There is also a movable shoe over the tape that is not diagrammed; presumably it was a later innovation.  I don?t think that a wire rubbing along the tape contra-edge would be a good idea, so I need to examine this part of the mechanism more carefully, but at least I now have some insights into the purpose of the lever that actuates this part of the mechanism.

 

WRT driver electronics, I?m working on that starting from Eric Moore / Guy Fedorkow design.  My objectives are 5- thru 8-level support for USB serial, RS-232 serial, and parallel interfaces, plus local self-test/alignment patterns.  I?m using a Mean Well LRS-350-24 SMPS which is adjustable up to 28.8 Vdc augmented by a TVS across the output to make up for any deficiencies in SMPS back-EMF transient protection.  The P6KE33CA looks to me like a good TVS choice:

 

Polarity:                        Bidirectional                  

Working Voltage:           28.20V              

Breakdown Voltage:      31.40~34.70V

Clamping Voltage:         45.7V 

Peak Pulse Current:       13.3A

 

From: https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/240/media-3320979.pdf 

 

The LRS-350-24 spec claims Overvoltage Protection in the range 28.8 - 33.6V (28.8V is the max. adjustable operating voltage) so presumably transients up to at least 33.6V are OK, and the various components are likely rated (significantly?) higher than that.  The TVS should enter conduction at 31.4V, well before 33.6V, and the final clamping voltage of 45.7V isn't unreasonably high.  The LRS-350-48 in that SMPS series, where I'd expect a lot of component commonality, has a max. adjusted voltage of 52.8V so I'm guessing that the series has the ability to handle at least that much back-voltage.  I've never worked with a TVS (or a SMPS with external output transient protection) before so I'm just going by "book learning" on this one.

 

WRT back-EMF, the BRPE base includes a top-hat "freewheeling" diode for that purpose wired in parallel with the relay-resistor (25 ohm, 2W?) serial combination for each relay; a standard circuit design.  Which is a start but I doubt that those diodes are exactly "fast-acting/recovery"; they're unmarked but probably from the (maybe mid) 70's.  While it's possible that a SMPS was in use in that era it's also possible otherwise.  That said, Eric Moore doesn?t seem to have encountered any problems with his use of a SMPS.

 

Working on the belt-and-suspenders philosophy augmented by ?measure twice, cut once? engineering :->.  Slow-n-steady wins the race!

 

From: Nick England <navy.radio at gmail.com> 
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2024 1:17 PM
To: pbirkel at gmail.com
Cc: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] BRPE11

 

Correction - 

I said " I thought that the parts book showed that the adjustable punch block would handle 5-8 level?"

That is the 146261 punch block, but I missed 143056 which is 6-8 level, 7/8" or 1" tape - I suspect that's what the BRPE11 has.

 

Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com <http://www.navy-radio.com> 

 

 

On Wed, Jan 17, 2024 at 1:00?PM Nick England <navy.radio at gmail.com <mailto:navy.radio at gmail.com> > wrote:

According to the 1969 catalog, BRPE11 + BRPEB6 is 

6 , 7 , or 8-level, 7/8" or 1" width, In-line feed hole

633 wpm

28VDC 1 ampere signal and tape feed out magnets 

See pdf page 10 

https://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/tty/tty-equip-price-1969-01.pdf

 

I thought that the parts book showed that the adjustable punch block would handle 5-8 level?

 

I really need to get back to my BRPE project - I got a couple of the typesetter 6-level units (with leading feed hole) and convinced some machinist buddies that making a new 5-level in-line punch block would be a "challenge". Now I need to build some driver electronics and figure out how to feed it a character stream.

https://www.navy-radio.com/tty/brpe.htm

 

Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com <http://www.navy-radio.com> 

 

 

On Wed, Jan 17, 2024 at 11:25?AM <pbirkel at gmail.com <mailto:pbirkel at gmail.com> > wrote:

Of possible interest is a poorly identified (and a bit rough) BRPE11 on eBay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/296166916217

 

I suspect from other sources (https://museum.wales/collections/online/object/a7dea37f-0f0a-3cfc-833e-f22b59972974/Paper-tape-puncher/) that?s a BRPE6 base -- hence the electrical support for an 8-level punch.  However the CDC 160 used the BRPE11 and that was a 7-level paper I/O system.  So apparently this may be a 7-level unit.  The vendor confirmed that there are only 4 relays/solenoids on the right.  I think that the mechanics and tape feed ought to work fine as a 6-level unit given the design of my BRPE21 tape feed mechanism.

 

I?ve suggested that the seller remove the punch cover and post suitable pictures.  And relabel the listing appropriately!

 

Unfortunately this unit falls in the valley between supporting the much more common 5-level and 8-level tapes.

 

Interestingly https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/objects/co62588/westrex-8-hole-paper-tape-punch-punch claims that a ?Westrex? unit used a BRPE11, yet was ?8 hole?.  I suspect that they included the feed hole in the count.

 

The "laid back" reel support is interesting (ignoring the fact that the reel isn't properly engaged in the photo).  That design is confirmed by:  https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102696402 

 

paul

 

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From Foltarz at rocketmail.com  Thu Jan 18 11:44:59 2024
From: Foltarz at rocketmail.com (Mark Foltarz)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2024 16:44:59 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [GreenKeys] Good WX to wash the Model 28
References: <2074394893.3478979.1705596299641.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2074394893.3478979.1705596299641@mail.yahoo.com>

The weather here was good this past weekend to give a 28KSR a good cleaning,I removed everything from the cabinet and gave it a thorough wash and dry in the sun.So now I'm thinking it could use a paint touchup. Frankly I want to repaint it.?It is an olive green color.
Does anyone have a paint code or equivalent color source? for the cabinet?
Also is there a source for the? gasket that goes underneath the top covers ?
Finally, there was a very thick and brown sponge like pad underneath the printing unit.Is that thing washable ? The one that was in there is oily and smells moldy.
tnxde WA4AMMark
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From navy.radio at gmail.com  Thu Jan 18 14:12:37 2024
From: navy.radio at gmail.com (Nick England)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2024 14:12:37 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] BRPE models
Message-ID: <CAB55hNdS=y0X5m+u49xD3eR3qMWv=D=Qpb2wFXn11VbtqTwwUg@mail.gmail.com>

After a little digging, these are the models I think I have identified.
1) The pickup for early models 1-5 were electrical switches, whereas the
"new style" (BRPE6 and up) had a magnetic pickup - the parts books, etc.
make that distinction.
2) The 28v 1a magnets are referred to as "transistor-driven" and the 115v
150ma ones as "tube driven". I thought I saw one reference to 25ma for the
tube-type but that doesn't compute. Also one section of the manual says use
a 6000 ohm series resistor, but that should probably be 600 ohms.

Any additions and corrections are welcome!

   - switch pickup
   - BRPE1 (BRPEB4 base) - 5 level, 11/16" width, 115v 150ma magnets
   - BRPE2 (BRPEB2 base) - 7 level, 7/8" width, 115v 150ma magnets
   - BRPE3 (BRPEB3 base) - 5 level, 11/16" width, 115v 150ma magnets
   - BRPE5 (BRPEB2 base) - 6 level, advanced feed hole, 7/8" width, 115v
   150ma magnets
   - magnetic pickup
   - BRPE6 (BRPEB6 base) - 8 level, 7/8" or 1" width, 28vdc 1a magnets
   - BRPE7 (LRXB base) - 5 level, 11/16" width, 28vdc 1a magnets
   - BRPE8 (BRPEB7 base) - 8 level, 7/8" or 1" width, 115v 150ma magnets
   - BRPE9 (BRPEB8 base) - 5 level, 11/16" width, 28vdc 1a magnets
   - BRPE11 (BRBPE6 base) - 6, 7, or 8 level, 7/8" or 1" width, 28vdc 1a
   magnets
   - BRPE15 (BRBPE6 base) - 5 level, 5/8" or 11/16" width, tape notching on
   0 and 6th level pins, 28vdc 1a magnets
   - BRPE18 (BRBPE6 base) - 6 level, 7/8" width, advanced feed hole, 28vdc
   1a magnets
   - BRPE21 (BRPEB11 base) - 5 or 8-level, 11/16" or 1" width, 28vdc 1a
   magnets


Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com
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From w9ddd at tapr.org  Thu Jan 18 14:21:48 2024
From: w9ddd at tapr.org (John, W9DDD)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2024 13:21:48 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] BRPE models
In-Reply-To: <CAB55hNdS=y0X5m+u49xD3eR3qMWv=D=Qpb2wFXn11VbtqTwwUg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB55hNdS=y0X5m+u49xD3eR3qMWv=D=Qpb2wFXn11VbtqTwwUg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dde0addb-175c-8bb3-dae1-ddbb9206cefb@tapr.org>

Is that a typo on BRPE15?  5/8" tape?


On 1/18/2024 1:12 PM, Nick England wrote:
> After a little digging, these are the models I think I have identified.
> 1) The pickup for early models 1-5 were electrical switches, whereas 
> the "new style" (BRPE6 and up) had a magnetic pickup - the parts 
> books, etc. make that distinction.
> 2) The 28v 1a magnets are referred to as "transistor-driven" and the 
> 115v 150ma ones as "tube driven". I thought I saw one reference to 
> 25ma for the tube-type but that doesn't compute. Also one section of 
> the manual says use a 6000 ohm series resistor, but that should 
> probably be 600 ohms.
>
> Any additions and corrections are welcome!
>
>   * switch pickup
>   * BRPE1 (BRPEB4 base) - 5 level, 11/16" width, 115v 150ma magnets
>   * BRPE2 (BRPEB2 base) - 7 level, 7/8" width, 115v 150ma magnets
>   * BRPE3 (BRPEB3 base) - 5 level, 11/16" width, 115v 150ma magnets
>   * BRPE5 (BRPEB2 base) - 6 level, advanced feed hole, 7/8" width,
>     115v 150ma magnets
>   * magnetic pickup
>   * BRPE6 (BRPEB6 base) - 8 level, 7/8" or 1" width, 28vdc 1a magnets
>   * BRPE7 (LRXB base) - 5 level, 11/16" width, 28vdc 1a magnets
>   * BRPE8 (BRPEB7 base) - 8 level, 7/8" or 1" width, 115v 150ma magnets
>   * BRPE9 (BRPEB8 base) - 5 level, 11/16" width, 28vdc 1a magnets
>   * BRPE11 (BRBPE6 base) - 6, 7, or 8 level, 7/8" or 1" width, 28vdc
>     1a magnets
>   * BRPE15 (BRBPE6 base) - 5 level, 5/8" or 11/16" width, tape
>     notching on 0 and 6th level pins, 28vdc 1a magnets
>   * BRPE18 (BRBPE6 base) - 6 level, 7/8" width, advanced feed hole,
>     28vdc 1a magnets
>   * BRPE21 (BRPEB11 base) - 5 or 8-level, 11/16" or 1" width, 28vdc 1a
>     magnets
>
>
> Nick England K4NYW
> www.navy-radio.com <http://www.navy-radio.com>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to w9ddd at tapr.org

-- 
---
----
The above comments or recommendations are SWAG. Use at your own risk.

John, W9DDD

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From navy.radio at gmail.com  Thu Jan 18 14:30:34 2024
From: navy.radio at gmail.com (Nick England)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2024 14:30:34 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] BRPE models
In-Reply-To: <dde0addb-175c-8bb3-dae1-ddbb9206cefb@tapr.org>
References: <CAB55hNdS=y0X5m+u49xD3eR3qMWv=D=Qpb2wFXn11VbtqTwwUg@mail.gmail.com>
	<dde0addb-175c-8bb3-dae1-ddbb9206cefb@tapr.org>
Message-ID: <CAB55hNdexmiZJGsjiMMVWhQbrXH0wtN6hXXenTtXDyL89T7okg@mail.gmail.com>

I was puzzled at that too - perhaps it should have been 7/8 - but it says
5/8 in two places

https://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/tty/tty-equip-price-1969-03.pdf
Product Description No. 99 says

Five- level 5/8" or 11/16" width fully perforated
paper tape output (Tape notching
on 0 and 6th. level punch pins)

Punch block has eight pins plus feed hole
pin. Tape guide and die plate slot permit
use of 5/8" or 11/16" tape only.



On Thu, Jan 18, 2024 at 2:22?PM John, W9DDD <w9ddd at tapr.org> wrote:

> Is that a typo on BRPE15?  5/8" tape?
>
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From douglas-w-jones at uiowa.edu  Thu Jan 18 14:46:41 2024
From: douglas-w-jones at uiowa.edu (Jones, Douglas W)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2024 19:46:41 +0000
Subject: [GreenKeys] [External]  BRPE models
In-Reply-To: <CAB55hNdS=y0X5m+u49xD3eR3qMWv=D=Qpb2wFXn11VbtqTwwUg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB55hNdS=y0X5m+u49xD3eR3qMWv=D=Qpb2wFXn11VbtqTwwUg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BN7PR04MB4036445C68EF4DDBC39FBBE0A8712@BN7PR04MB4036.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>

From: Nick England [navy.radio at gmail.com] -- Thursday, January 18, 2024 1:12 PM

> 1) The pickup for early models 1-5 were electrical switches, whereas the "new style" (BRPE6 and up) had a magnetic pickup - the parts books, etc. make that distinction.

No, there were 3 pickups to generate the sync pulse at various times:
1 - mechanical -- very early models
2 - magnetic pickup with rigid cable in tube, permanent magnet in pickup and moving iron slug in rim of flywheel
3 - magnetic pickup with flexible cable and permanent magnet in rim of flywheel -- late models

These variations required changes in the drive electronics, so they, like the different punch magnet operating voltages, had to be options the customer could specify when ordering replacement units or parts.

And there were several ypes of cover over the punch itself

1 - with window, without notch for tape-feed lever -- very early models
1 - with window and notch -- early models
2 - without window -- late models

I don't think they made any model number changes for the with and without window covers, and I'm not clear on BRPEs made without a tape feed lever, but I see in the parts list or manuals that these options existed.

           Doug

From dave at horsfall.org  Thu Jan 18 17:52:37 2024
From: dave at horsfall.org (Dave Horsfall)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2024 09:52:37 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [GreenKeys] What sort of a Teletype was used on Colossus?
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2401190941260.2425@aneurin.horsfall.org>

Attached image was taken in 1963 (one of the few Colossi that were not 
destroyed); I've never sen a printer roll as narrow as that.

-- Dave
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From navy.radio at gmail.com  Thu Jan 18 20:23:44 2024
From: navy.radio at gmail.com (Nick England)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2024 20:23:44 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] HAL DSRTTY-WIN terminal software on line
Message-ID: <CAB55hNeknT=Ehp6F+fJ+iZNkoEhP_EkdGkuq873EwG9DOO2Rqg@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks to Duncan Brown at the AWA Museum and HAL/Barrett/Motorola, the
contents of the DSRTTY-WIN CD-ROM v2.0.1 are now on line at
https://www.navy-radio.com/rtty/hal/DSRTTYWin_CD_V201/
In that directory is also a zip file with the contents if you'd rather
download that than all the pieces.
I know nothing al all about this stuff - the manual is there so you can
read it for yourself.

Other HAL documents are at
https://www.navy-radio.com/rtty/hal.htm

Cheers,
Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com
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From w9ddd at tapr.org  Thu Jan 18 21:33:02 2024
From: w9ddd at tapr.org (John, W9DDD)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2024 20:33:02 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] 28 motor repair
Message-ID: <13aab038-0add-d9fe-f3f5-12abf042e88d@tapr.org>

A motor I've been using for several years on my RO base as a work 
station runs smooth and I had no complaints except the motor leads come 
out the side of the "basement" instead of the top of it. That means 
threading the lead through the back side slots of the base.

So I'm adding a 28LD to the RO base and am about complete it and getting 
ready to install in a cabinet.? I decided to fix the routing of the 
motor leads.? Took the motor off the craddle so I could get the 
"basement" cover and pull the motor leads back and then out the hole in 
the cover.? I notice that over the years some oil and grease had settled 
in the bottom of the base.? As I'm ready to re-assemble, I push on the 
wire that come from the motor to the over-current red button.? About an 
inch of the insulation crumbles and now it's in danger of touching one 
of the terminals on the start relay.? Of course that wire goes into the 
motor itself.

So, should I buy some of the fancy wire used as motor leads and re-do 
the wires on the motor myself.? Or take it to a motor shop and let them 
do it for a lot of dollars.? Are they gonna talk me into bearings and 
some other extra things, ya know just in case?

I've seen the insides of perhaps a 100 5-200 HP motors over the years 
and those wouldn't scare me, but I suspect this little 1/20 HP might be 
a little more challenging.

Any experiences to share or suggestions.

What happened to those motors that were on craig's list or ebay a few 
years back?? Seems like someone was going to rescue them, but can't 
recall who.


-- 
---
----
You said "tomorrow" yesterday.

The above comments or recommendations are SWAG. Use at your own risk.
John, W9DDD


From dave at horsfall.org  Thu Jan 18 21:37:48 2024
From: dave at horsfall.org (Dave Horsfall)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2024 13:37:48 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [GreenKeys] What sort of a Teletype was used on Colossus?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2401190941260.2425@aneurin.horsfall.org>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2401190941260.2425@aneurin.horsfall.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2401191335450.2425@aneurin.horsfall.org>

Thanks, all; I never cease to be amazed by the depth and breadth of 
knowledge on this list.

Opinions varied from an electric typewriter to a Flexowriter, not a TTY.

-- Dave

From elb at kb8ojh.net  Thu Jan 18 21:47:12 2024
From: elb at kb8ojh.net (Ethan Blanton)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2024 21:47:12 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] 28 motor repair
In-Reply-To: <13aab038-0add-d9fe-f3f5-12abf042e88d@tapr.org>
References: <13aab038-0add-d9fe-f3f5-12abf042e88d@tapr.org>
Message-ID: <ZanisLVIQkDjN_Cx@colt.lan>

John, W9DDD wrote:
> So, should I buy some of the fancy wire used as motor leads and re-do the
> wires on the motor myself.? Or take it to a motor shop and let them do it
> for a lot of dollars.? Are they gonna talk me into bearings and some other
> extra things, ya know just in case?

My solution to this problem is here, search for "Motor Unit":

https://kb8ojh.net/station/teletype/

I had a very similar situation, removing and cleaning various parts
led to cracked motor wiring; in my case, I noticed not because I saw
the cracks, but because it started tripping the GFCI.  I disassembled
the motor far enough to remove the rotor and get to the ends of the
winding, and covered over with shrink tubing.  It's not a perfect fix
(it's kind of ugly, and the insulation lashed into motor the windings
is just as brittle -- if less mobile), but a decade or so later that
TTY is still running strong -- it's now in my office on campus, and I
demo the Model 28 for students or other faculty members a few times a
semester.

> I've seen the insides of perhaps a 100 5-200 HP motors over the years and
> those wouldn't scare me, but I suspect this little 1/20 HP might be a little
> more challenging.

It's not as bad as you think!

Ethan

From w9ddd at tapr.org  Thu Jan 18 22:03:31 2024
From: w9ddd at tapr.org (John, W9DDD)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2024 21:03:31 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] 28 motor repair
In-Reply-To: <ZanisLVIQkDjN_Cx@colt.lan>
References: <13aab038-0add-d9fe-f3f5-12abf042e88d@tapr.org>
	<ZanisLVIQkDjN_Cx@colt.lan>
Message-ID: <85aa8b80-c44b-4473-5952-0337af2f8bcb@tapr.org>

An impressive page.? It is a page I'm going to bookmark.

The pictures of the inside of the motor are very useful.

I'm jealous of your answerback button.? Back in Teletype phase 1, I had 
a keyboard with it and you? could still order the parts, so I coded for 
my call sign.? Here I am 40 years later on phase 2, guess I'll have to 
cheat and use a microprocessor.? Actually if I can find the stepper I 
saw a couple of years ago in the garage and it's suitable, I can use it 
with the LD to accomplish the same. (I think I also have the kit for 
adding the Here Is button on a keyboard.? Will look strange on an RO?

---
----
You said "tomorrow" yesterday.

The above comments or recommendations are SWAG. Use at your own risk.
John, W9DDD

On 1/18/2024 8:47 PM, Ethan Blanton wrote:
> John, W9DDD wrote:
>> So, should I buy some of the fancy wire used as motor leads and re-do the
>> wires on the motor myself.? Or take it to a motor shop and let them do it
>> for a lot of dollars.? Are they gonna talk me into bearings and some other
>> extra things, ya know just in case?
> My solution to this problem is here, search for "Motor Unit":
>
> https://kb8ojh.net/station/teletype/
>
> I had a very similar situation, removing and cleaning various parts
> led to cracked motor wiring; in my case, I noticed not because I saw
> the cracks, but because it started tripping the GFCI.  I disassembled
> the motor far enough to remove the rotor and get to the ends of the
> winding, and covered over with shrink tubing.  It's not a perfect fix
> (it's kind of ugly, and the insulation lashed into motor the windings
> is just as brittle -- if less mobile), but a decade or so later that
> TTY is still running strong -- it's now in my office on campus, and I
> demo the Model 28 for students or other faculty members a few times a
> semester.
>
>> I've seen the insides of perhaps a 100 5-200 HP motors over the years and
>> those wouldn't scare me, but I suspect this little 1/20 HP might be a little
>> more challenging.
> It's not as bad as you think!
>
> Ethan


From douglas-w-jones at uiowa.edu  Thu Jan 18 22:28:53 2024
From: douglas-w-jones at uiowa.edu (Jones, Douglas W)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2024 03:28:53 +0000
Subject: [GreenKeys] [External]  28 motor repair
In-Reply-To: <13aab038-0add-d9fe-f3f5-12abf042e88d@tapr.org>
References: <13aab038-0add-d9fe-f3f5-12abf042e88d@tapr.org>
Message-ID: <BN7PR04MB403665647461155CB3B15E94A8702@BN7PR04MB4036.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>

From: John, W9DDD [w9ddd at tapr.org] -- Thursday, January 18, 2024 8:33 PM

> As I'm ready to re-assemble, I push on the wire that come from the
> motor to the over-current red button.  About an inch of the insulation
> crumbles

I've had this happen.  Here are my writeups on two motors I repaired:

a) A Tally high-soeed paper-tape reader motor (1/30 hp)
-- https://homepage.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/pdp8/UI-8/bugs.shtml#30

b) A 1/3 hp motor for a table saw
-- https://homepage.cs.uiowa.edu/~dwjones/making/motorrebuild/

Both motors were induction motors, one split phase, the bigger one with
a starting winding.

           Doug Jones

From elb at kb8ojh.net  Thu Jan 18 22:42:43 2024
From: elb at kb8ojh.net (Ethan Blanton)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2024 22:42:43 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] 28 motor repair
In-Reply-To: <85aa8b80-c44b-4473-5952-0337af2f8bcb@tapr.org>
References: <13aab038-0add-d9fe-f3f5-12abf042e88d@tapr.org>
	<ZanisLVIQkDjN_Cx@colt.lan>
	<85aa8b80-c44b-4473-5952-0337af2f8bcb@tapr.org>
Message-ID: <Zanvs_UgeQh0PPrZ@colt.lan>

John, W9DDD wrote:
> An impressive page.? It is a page I'm going to bookmark.

Thank you!

> The pictures of the inside of the motor are very useful.

Perfect, I was hoping so.

> I'm jealous of your answerback button.? Back in Teletype phase 1, I had a
> keyboard with it and you? could still order the parts, so I coded for my
> call sign.? Here I am 40 years later on phase 2, guess I'll have to cheat
> and use a microprocessor.? Actually if I can find the stepper I saw a couple
> of years ago in the garage and it's suitable, I can use it with the LD to
> accomplish the same. (I think I also have the kit for adding the Here Is
> button on a keyboard.? Will look strange on an RO?

At some later point I took a look at the answerback mechanism:

https://youtu.be/0A1a9rW_XRs

... and then later again built a code blade for it:

https://youtu.be/de1EGJAhytc

I was able to buy _almost_ all of the code blades I needed from Mr.
RTTY, but one of them (I seem to recall K?  I'm sure the video says)
was not in stock, and rather than breaking an unencoded blade, I sat
down with a dremel and "machined" one.

Ethan

From pbirkel at gmail.com  Fri Jan 19 04:19:46 2024
From: pbirkel at gmail.com (pbirkel at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2024 04:19:46 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] BRPE models
In-Reply-To: <CAB55hNdS=y0X5m+u49xD3eR3qMWv=D=Qpb2wFXn11VbtqTwwUg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB55hNdS=y0X5m+u49xD3eR3qMWv=D=Qpb2wFXn11VbtqTwwUg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <01d801da4ab8$a539fdd0$efadf970$@gmail.com>

My BRPE21 (BRPEB11 base) includes selector magnet suppression switches for zero, six, and seven, thus it should also handle 6- and 7-level tape.  I would expect it to correctly position 7/8? tape for those cases but I haven?t yet determined/verified how it does that on the non-guide edge.  I don?t have any 7/8? tape, so I?ll try hand-cutting a few strips for experimentation/testing once I get the punching action working properly.

 

Note that unlike Figure 10 ? Universal Tape Punch Unit in 215B_BRPE_Technical_Manual_May1971.pdf the ?CODE LEVEL CONTROL SWITCHES? are held in the left side punch mounting bracket rather than on a separate angle-bracket attached to the front of the punch.  In the technical manual the accompanying description states:

 

UNIVERSAL PUNCH MECHANISM

4.10 The punch units with the universal tape punch (Figure 10) are capable of perforating 11/16-inch tape with 5-level code, or 1 inch tape with 5-, 6-, 7-, or 8-level codes. To accomplish this, a manually operated mechanism is provided to mechanically vary the size of the punch block tape path to accept either 11/16 inch or 1 inch tapes. Associated with this mechanism is a variable tape guide mechanism and three switches which electrically control the 0, 6, and 7 code levels.

 

What would be the utility of punching 6- and 7-level codes in 1? tape, which presumably wouldn?t be readable in 6- or 7-level readers?

 

I?m not sure what is special about the BRPE11 base.  It includes a tape-out switch, but that?s not unusual.

 

Nick:  If you?d like to host some of this BRPE21 information then I can work on obtaining suitable photos ? just let me know what photos you?d like from me.

 

From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net <greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net> On Behalf Of Nick England
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2024 2:13 PM
To: Greenkeys <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: [GreenKeys] BRPE models

 

Any additions and corrections are welcome!

*	BRPE21 (BRPEB11 base) - 5 or 8-level, 11/16" or 1" width, 28vdc 1a magnets

Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com <http://www.navy-radio.com> 

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From pbirkel at gmail.com  Fri Jan 19 04:25:37 2024
From: pbirkel at gmail.com (pbirkel at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2024 04:25:37 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] BRPE models
In-Reply-To: <BN7PR04MB4036445C68EF4DDBC39FBBE0A8712@BN7PR04MB4036.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAB55hNdS=y0X5m+u49xD3eR3qMWv=D=Qpb2wFXn11VbtqTwwUg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BN7PR04MB4036445C68EF4DDBC39FBBE0A8712@BN7PR04MB4036.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <01dd01da4ab9$76504c30$62f0e490$@gmail.com>

1154B_BRPE_Parts_Catalog_Jul1960.pdf, PDF page 5, includes a table
identifying the changeover from contacts to a magnetic pickup (starting with
BRPE6 apparently).  It looks like the transistorized controller was
introduced at the same time.  I presume that Nick was quoting from there
:->.

What was the purpose of the "ADVANCED" feed hole design?

-----Original Message-----
From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net <greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net>
On Behalf Of Jones, Douglas W via GreenKeys
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2024 2:47 PM
To: Nick England <navy.radio at gmail.com>; Greenkeys
<greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] [External] BRPE models

From: Nick England [navy.radio at gmail.com] -- Thursday, January 18, 2024 1:12
PM

> 1) The pickup for early models 1-5 were electrical switches, whereas the
"new style" (BRPE6 and up) had a magnetic pickup - the parts books, etc.
make that distinction.

No, there were 3 pickups to generate the sync pulse at various times:
1 - mechanical -- very early models
2 - magnetic pickup with rigid cable in tube, permanent magnet in pickup and
moving iron slug in rim of flywheel
3 - magnetic pickup with flexible cable and permanent magnet in rim of
flywheel -- late models

These variations required changes in the drive electronics, so they, like
the different punch magnet operating voltages, had to be options the
customer could specify when ordering replacement units or parts.

And there were several ypes of cover over the punch itself

1 - with window, without notch for tape-feed lever -- very early models
1 - with window and notch -- early models
2 - without window -- late models

I don't think they made any model number changes for the with and without
window covers, and I'm not clear on BRPEs made without a tape feed lever,
but I see in the parts list or manuals that these options existed.

           Doug
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From pbirkel at gmail.com  Fri Jan 19 06:46:40 2024
From: pbirkel at gmail.com (pbirkel at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2024 06:46:40 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] BRPE11
References: <02f901da4961$a6b0c930$f4125b90$@gmail.com>
	<CAB55hNfz-9-zZ-NzA03NEcFuMuTBfdVMzg_3_+S23N-kcw49bA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAB55hNc+g+E6XM_dR-Q-GifDzbDRmiZ57mknh8bvCrza-GzDng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <01fe01da4acd$2b006c10$81014430$@gmail.com>

I removed my punch block this morning and verified that it isn't a contributing cause to my problem with stuck linkages.  It looks fine to me, and now that I can get a closer look I can see that what I thought to be a "wire" is actually a thin blade seen exactly end-on!  Wiser am I now as to how my tape guide mechanism is constructed, and operates :->.  I agree with the Teletype engineers that feeding 7/8? tape is not supported by the BRPE21.

 

I think that one could create a small edge-guide that could be attached on a temporary basis to the front of the Tape Guide Bracket (PN# 142942) to ensure that 7/8? tape is fed correctly as a narrower alternative to 1? tape in order to correctly support 6- and 7-level tape.

 

From: pbirkel at gmail.com 
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2024 6:28 AM
To: Nick England <navy.radio at gmail.com>
Cc: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: RE: [GreenKeys] BRPE11

 

I?ve been guessing about the BRPEB6 based on the photo and ancillary sources.  It?s nice to see official confirmation on that point, and the 6 or 7-level capability.  Thank you for pointing that out :->.  The seller saw only 4 magnets on the right, so is it the case that the price list is for a ?generic? assembly and there are further variations (perhaps using the 143056 block but with or without the 9th magnet)?  I?ve asked the seller to take off the punch cover and post photos of the mechanism.

 

Based on my BRPE21, an 8-level (inline) punch block can indeed do-it-all.  The variations are handled by switching off selected magnets and/or reconfiguring the tape feed/positioning mechanism (the feed-pan snaps into two positions to align the guiding edge of the tape; see Figure 3 in 1154B_BRPE_Parts_Catalog_Dec1970.pdf).  Looking at Figure 4 the operation/use of the ?adjustable? mechanism is unclear.  My BRPE21, presumably with the 146261 block, has this mechanism.  My interpretation of the table is that it affects the positioning of the ?biasing spring? in order to handle the narrow 5-level 11/16? tape.  However PN 142897 and 146262 look like ?plates? to me, not even leaf springs. 1154B_BRPE_Parts_Catalog_Jul1960.pdf, Figure 1-6, is a bit clearer that 142897 is creating a tape contra-edge guide that is located just prior to the tape reaching the punch pins.  As 142897 is slotted, presumably it?s factory-set for 7/8? tape in the BRPE11.

 

The Figure 4 diagram of the ADJUSTABLE block appears to be incomplete as 146262 never enters the tape path, and it?s shaped differently in my BRPE21 there is instead a very small wire affixed to the back-side of that part that drops into the tape path, or not, depending on position.  There is also a movable shoe over the tape that is not diagrammed; presumably it was a later innovation.  I don?t think that a wire rubbing along the tape contra-edge would be a good idea, so I need to examine this part of the mechanism more carefully, but at least I now have some insights into the purpose of the lever that actuates this part of the mechanism.

 

WRT driver electronics, I?m working on that starting from Eric Moore / Guy Fedorkow design.  My objectives are 5- thru 8-level support for USB serial, RS-232 serial, and parallel interfaces, plus local self-test/alignment patterns.  I?m using a Mean Well LRS-350-24 SMPS which is adjustable up to 28.8 Vdc augmented by a TVS across the output to make up for any deficiencies in SMPS back-EMF transient protection.  The P6KE33CA looks to me like a good TVS choice:

 

Polarity:                        Bidirectional                  

Working Voltage:           28.20V              

Breakdown Voltage:      31.40~34.70V

Clamping Voltage:         45.7V 

Peak Pulse Current:       13.3A

 

From: https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/240/media-3320979.pdf 

 

The LRS-350-24 spec claims Overvoltage Protection in the range 28.8 - 33.6V (28.8V is the max. adjustable operating voltage) so presumably transients up to at least 33.6V are OK, and the various components are likely rated (significantly?) higher than that.  The TVS should enter conduction at 31.4V, well before 33.6V, and the final clamping voltage of 45.7V isn't unreasonably high.  The LRS-350-48 in that SMPS series, where I'd expect a lot of component commonality, has a max. adjusted voltage of 52.8V so I'm guessing that the series has the ability to handle at least that much back-voltage.  I've never worked with a TVS (or a SMPS with external output transient protection) before so I'm just going by "book learning" on this one.

 

WRT back-EMF, the BRPE base includes a top-hat "freewheeling" diode for that purpose wired in parallel with the magnet-resistor (25 ohm, 2W?) serial combination for each magnet; a standard circuit design.  Which is a start but I doubt that those diodes are exactly "fast-acting/recovery"; they're unmarked but probably from the (maybe mid) 70's.  While it's possible that a SMPS was in use in that era it's also possible otherwise.  That said, Eric Moore doesn?t seem to have encountered any problems with his use of a SMPS.

 

Working on the belt-and-suspenders philosophy augmented by ?measure twice, cut once? engineering :->.  Slow-n-steady wins the race!

 

From: Nick England <navy.radio at gmail.com <mailto:navy.radio at gmail.com> > 
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2024 1:17 PM
To: pbirkel at gmail.com <mailto:pbirkel at gmail.com> 
Cc: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net <mailto:greenkeys at mailman.qth.net> 
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] BRPE11

 

Correction - 

I said " I thought that the parts book showed that the adjustable punch block would handle 5-8 level?"

That is the 146261 punch block, but I missed 143056 which is 6-8 level, 7/8" or 1" tape - I suspect that's what the BRPE11 has.

 

Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com <http://www.navy-radio.com> 

 

 

On Wed, Jan 17, 2024 at 1:00?PM Nick England <navy.radio at gmail.com <mailto:navy.radio at gmail.com> > wrote:

According to the 1969 catalog, BRPE11 + BRPEB6 is 

6 , 7 , or 8-level, 7/8" or 1" width, In-line feed hole

633 wpm

28VDC 1 ampere signal and tape feed out magnets 

See pdf page 10 

https://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/tty/tty-equip-price-1969-01.pdf

 

I thought that the parts book showed that the adjustable punch block would handle 5-8 level?

 

I really need to get back to my BRPE project - I got a couple of the typesetter 6-level units (with leading feed hole) and convinced some machinist buddies that making a new 5-level in-line punch block would be a "challenge". Now I need to build some driver electronics and figure out how to feed it a character stream.

https://www.navy-radio.com/tty/brpe.htm

 

Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com <http://www.navy-radio.com> 

 

 

On Wed, Jan 17, 2024 at 11:25?AM <pbirkel at gmail.com <mailto:pbirkel at gmail.com> > wrote:

Of possible interest is a poorly identified (and a bit rough) BRPE11 on eBay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/296166916217

 

I suspect from other sources (https://museum.wales/collections/online/object/a7dea37f-0f0a-3cfc-833e-f22b59972974/Paper-tape-puncher/) that?s a BRPE6 base -- hence the electrical support for an 8-level punch.  However the CDC 160 used the BRPE11 and that was a 7-level paper I/O system.  So apparently this may be a 7-level unit.  The vendor confirmed that there are only 4 relays/solenoids on the right.  I think that the mechanics and tape feed ought to work fine as a 6-level unit given the design of my BRPE21 tape feed mechanism.

 

I?ve suggested that the seller remove the punch cover and post suitable pictures.  And relabel the listing appropriately!

 

Unfortunately this unit falls in the valley between supporting the much more common 5-level and 8-level tapes.

 

Interestingly https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/objects/co62588/westrex-8-hole-paper-tape-punch-punch claims that a ?Westrex? unit used a BRPE11, yet was ?8 hole?.  I suspect that they included the feed hole in the count.

 

The "laid back" reel support is interesting (ignoring the fact that the reel isn't properly engaged in the photo).  That design is confirmed by:  https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102696402 

 

paul

 

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From til128 at juno.com  Fri Jan 19 14:15:08 2024
From: til128 at juno.com (til128 at juno.com)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2024 19:15:08 GMT
Subject: [GreenKeys] Part help
Message-ID: <20240119.141508.31275.0@webmail11.dca.untd.com>

Hi all: I am looking for 2 of the rubber bumpers on the side of the 15 base that guides the cover. Part # is 83413 It looks like Teletype made them "special". Nothing commercially available. Unless I am looking in the wrong places. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Mr. Paul does not have any. Pls reply off list. Tom WB2TTY Tillson 
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From jhhaynes at earthlink.net  Fri Jan 19 14:52:22 2024
From: jhhaynes at earthlink.net (Jim Haynes)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2024 13:52:22 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [GreenKeys] Colossus typewriter
Message-ID: <54f2c038-5af9-e364-d5cb-cb883292bd2@earthlink.net>


About the typewriter on the machine.  I assume this question is prompted
by the newly-released photos of a Colossus machine that were announced
on slashdot today, or somewhere else earlier.

The machine in the picture looks too modern to be 1945 vintage, but
then the pictures are of a machine that may have been preserved until
1963 or so.  And by then the original typewriter may have worn out and
been replaced by a new one.

It looks like an IBM electric typewriter to me - it appears the IBM
initials are on the front face of the machine, and that is where IBM
typewriters had them.  The typewriter is sitting on top of a rectangular
box, partly submerged in it.  This suggests the box contains solenoids
to pull down on the keys to make the machine type.  Which could have
been made by IBM or by any third-party fabricator.

At the very beginning of Morkrum they were using typewriters with pull
down solenoids before they developed their own printer mechanism.  There
was an electric typewriter on the market back then, the Blickensderfer,
which used a cylindrical type element.  No doubt an electric typewriter
would be desirable since it would require less force to pull down the
keys than a manual typewriter would need.  I've also seen pictures of
an Oliver typewriter among Teletype archives.

 	---

 	"Ya can argue all ya wanna, but it's dif'rent than it was."
 	"No it ain't! No it ain't!  But ya gotta know the territory."
 		Meredith Willson, The Music Man

From w1an.dxusa at gmail.com  Fri Jan 19 22:59:26 2024
From: w1an.dxusa at gmail.com (John Spigel)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2024 03:59:26 +0000
Subject: [GreenKeys] BRPE11
In-Reply-To: <01fe01da4acd$2b006c10$81014430$@gmail.com>
References: <02f901da4961$a6b0c930$f4125b90$@gmail.com>
	<CAB55hNfz-9-zZ-NzA03NEcFuMuTBfdVMzg_3_+S23N-kcw49bA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAB55hNc+g+E6XM_dR-Q-GifDzbDRmiZ57mknh8bvCrza-GzDng@mail.gmail.com>
	<01fe01da4acd$2b006c10$81014430$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1173aef6-89a6-4863-8ff6-11a6eab664f0@gmail.com>

This is just an FYI.
I saw today there is a BRPE11 on ebay. Search "teletype"
73, John W1AN

On 19-Jan-24 11:46, pbirkel at gmail.com wrote:
>
> I removed my punch block this morning and verified that it isn't a 
> contributing cause to my problem with stuck linkages.? It looks fine 
> to me, and now that I can get a closer look I can see that what I 
> thought to be a "wire" is actually a thin blade seen exactly end-on!? 
> Wiser am I now as to how my tape guide mechanism is constructed, and 
> operates :->.? I agree with the Teletype engineers that feeding 7/8? 
> tape is not supported by the BRPE21.
>
> I think that one could create a small edge-guide that could be 
> attached on a temporary basis to the front of the Tape Guide Bracket 
> (PN# 142942) to ensure that 7/8? tape is fed correctly as a narrower 
> alternative to 1? tape in order to correctly support 6- and 7-level tape.
>
> *From:* pbirkel at gmail.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 18, 2024 6:28 AM
> *To:* Nick England <navy.radio at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
> *Subject:* RE: [GreenKeys] BRPE11
>
> I?ve been guessing about the BRPEB6 based on the photo and ancillary 
> sources.? It?s nice to see official confirmation on that point, and 
> the 6 or 7-level capability.? Thank you for pointing that out :->.? 
> The seller saw only 4 magnets on the right, so is it the case that the 
> price list is for a ?generic? assembly and there are further 
> variations (perhaps using the 143056 block but with or without the 
> 9^th magnet)?? I?ve asked the seller to take off the punch cover and 
> post photos of the mechanism.
>
> Based on my BRPE21, an 8-level (inline) punch block can indeed 
> do-it-all.? The variations are handled by switching off selected 
> magnets and/or reconfiguring the tape feed/positioning mechanism (the 
> feed-pan snaps into two positions to align the guiding edge of the 
> tape; see Figure 3 in 1154B_BRPE_Parts_Catalog_Dec1970.pdf).? Looking 
> at Figure 4 the operation/use of the ?adjustable? mechanism is 
> unclear.? My BRPE21, presumably with the 146261 block, has this 
> mechanism.? My interpretation of the table is that it affects the 
> positioning of the ?biasing spring? in order to handle the narrow 
> 5-level 11/16? tape. ?However PN 142897 and 146262 look like ?plates? 
> to me, not even leaf springs. 1154B_BRPE_Parts_Catalog_Jul1960.pdf, 
> Figure 1-6, is a bit clearer that 142897 is creating a tape 
> contra-edge guide that is located just prior to the tape reaching the 
> punch pins.? As 142897 is slotted, presumably it?s factory-set for 
> 7/8? tape in the BRPE11.
>
> The Figure 4 diagram of the ADJUSTABLE block appears to be incomplete 
> as 146262 never enters the tape path, and it?s shaped differently in 
> my BRPE21 there is instead a very small wire affixed to the back-side 
> of that part that drops into the tape path, or not, depending on 
> position.? There is also a movable shoe over the tape that is not 
> diagrammed; presumably it was a later innovation.? I don?t think that 
> a wire rubbing along the tape contra-edge would be a good idea, so I 
> need to examine this part of the mechanism more carefully, but at 
> least I now have some insights into the purpose of the lever that 
> actuates this part of the mechanism.
>
> WRT driver electronics, I?m working on that starting from Eric Moore / 
> Guy Fedorkow design.? My objectives are 5- thru 8-level support for 
> USB serial, RS-232 serial, and parallel interfaces, plus local 
> self-test/alignment patterns.? I?m using a Mean Well LRS-350-24 SMPS 
> which is adjustable up to 28.8 Vdc augmented by a TVS across the 
> output to make up for any deficiencies in SMPS back-EMF transient 
> protection.? The P6KE33CA looks to me like a good TVS choice:
>
> Polarity: Bidirectional
>
> Working Voltage: ????????? 28.20V
>
> Breakdown Voltage: ???? 31.40~34.70V
>
> Clamping Voltage: ??????? 45.7V
>
> Peak Pulse Current:?????? 13.3A
>
> From: https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/240/media-3320979.pdf
>
> The LRS-350-24 spec claims Overvoltage Protection in the range 28.8 - 
> 33.6V (28.8V is the max. adjustable operating voltage) so presumably 
> transients up to at least 33.6V are OK, and the various components are 
> likely rated (significantly?) higher than that.? The TVS should enter 
> conduction at 31.4V, well before 33.6V, and the final clamping voltage 
> of 45.7V isn't unreasonably high.? The LRS-350-48 in that SMPS series, 
> where I'd expect a lot of component commonality, has a max. adjusted 
> voltage of 52.8V so I'm guessing that the series has the ability to 
> handle at least that much back-voltage.? I've never worked with a TVS 
> (or a SMPS with external output transient protection) before so I'm 
> just going by "book learning" on this one.
>
> WRT back-EMF, the BRPE base includes a top-hat "freewheeling" diode 
> for that purpose wired in parallel with the magnet-resistor (25 ohm, 
> 2W?) serial combination for each magnet; a standard circuit design.? 
> Which is a start but I doubt that those diodes are exactly 
> "fast-acting/recovery"; they're unmarked but probably from the (maybe 
> mid) 70's.? While it's possible that a SMPS was in use in that era 
> it's also possible otherwise.? That said, Eric Moore doesn?t seem to 
> have encountered any problems with his use of a SMPS.
>
> Working on the belt-and-suspenders philosophy augmented by ?measure 
> twice, cut once? engineering :->.? Slow-n-steady wins the race!
>
> *From:* Nick England <navy.radio at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 17, 2024 1:17 PM
> *To:* pbirkel at gmail.com
> *Cc:* greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
> *Subject:* Re: [GreenKeys] BRPE11
>
> Correction -
>
> I said " I thought that the parts book showed that the adjustable 
> punch block would handle 5-8 level?"
>
> That is the 146261 punch block, but I missed 143056 which is 6-8 
> level, 7/8" or 1" tape - I suspect that's what the BRPE11 has.
>
> Nick England K4NYW
> www.navy-radio.com <http://www.navy-radio.com>
>
> On Wed, Jan 17, 2024 at 1:00?PM Nick England <navy.radio at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>     According to the 1969 catalog, BRPE11 + BRPEB6 is
>
>     6 , 7 , or 8-level, 7/8" or 1" width, In-line feed hole
>
>     633 wpm
>
>     28VDC 1 ampere signal and tape feed out magnets
>
>     See pdf page 10
>
>     https://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/tty/tty-equip-price-1969-01.pdf
>
>     I thought that the parts book showed that the adjustable punch
>     block would handle 5-8 level?
>
>     I really need to get back to my BRPE project - I got a couple of
>     the typesetter 6-level units (with leading feed hole) and
>     convinced some machinist buddies that making a new 5-level in-line
>     punch block would be a "challenge". Now I need to build some
>     driver electronics and figure out how to feed it a character stream.
>
>     https://www.navy-radio.com/tty/brpe.htm
>
>     Nick England K4NYW
>     www.navy-radio.com <http://www.navy-radio.com>
>
>     On Wed, Jan 17, 2024 at 11:25?AM <pbirkel at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>         Of possible interest is a poorly identified (and a bit rough)
>         BRPE11 on eBay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/296166916217
>
>         I suspect from other sources
>         (https://museum.wales/collections/online/object/a7dea37f-0f0a-3cfc-833e-f22b59972974/Paper-tape-puncher/)
>         that?s a BRPE6 base -- hence the electrical support for an
>         8-level punch.? However the CDC 160 used the BRPE11 and that
>         was a 7-level paper I/O system.? So apparently this may be a
>         7-level unit.? The vendor confirmed that there are only 4
>         relays/solenoids on the right.? I think that the mechanics and
>         tape feed ought to work fine as a 6-level unit given the
>         design of my BRPE21 tape feed mechanism.
>
>         I?ve suggested that the seller remove the punch cover and post
>         suitable pictures.? And relabel the listing appropriately!
>
>         Unfortunately this unit falls in the valley between supporting
>         the much more common 5-level and 8-level tapes.
>
>         Interestingly
>         https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/objects/co62588/westrex-8-hole-paper-tape-punch-punch
>         claims that a ?Westrex? unit used a BRPE11, yet was ?8 hole?.?
>         I suspect that they included the feed hole in the count.
>
>         The "laid back" reel support is interesting (ignoring the fact
>         that the reel isn't properly engaged in the photo).? That
>         design is confirmed by:
>         https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102696402
>
>         paul
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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From pbirkel at gmail.com  Sat Jan 20 09:39:37 2024
From: pbirkel at gmail.com (pbirkel at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2024 09:39:37 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] BRPE11
In-Reply-To: <CAE1er56vy3DFY2FHmHbYDTueZk3Xzdkb3fN_wXoSUHJJRMDHSQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <02f901da4961$a6b0c930$f4125b90$@gmail.com>
	<CAE1er56vy3DFY2FHmHbYDTueZk3Xzdkb3fN_wXoSUHJJRMDHSQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002101da4bae$7e837cb0$7b8a7610$@gmail.com>

The seller has added 4 more pictures, which make clear that this is an 8-level punch (sorry Eric) with a fixed guide plate for 1? tape.  The punch frontside looks in better shape than its backside.  Excepting the fixed guide plate and the lack of 0/6/7 suppression switches it looks like the mechanism in my BRPE21 (which is progressing nicely; I?ve successfully unstuck all of my punch linkages).

 

I do think that a proper 7-level tape could be handled by adding a front-side edge-guide for 7/8? tape (warm up your 3D printer folks); would want that to extend as close as possible to the punch inlet.

 

From: Eric Moore <mooreericnyc at gmail.com> 
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2024 11:42 AM
To: Paul Birkel <pbirkel at gmail.com>
Cc: Greenkeys <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] BRPE11

 

This may be perfect for the MIT whirlwind if it is really 7 level. I hope the seller posts better pics.

 

As one of the like 3 BRPE owners, I publicly state I will not be bidding ?

 

On Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 10:26?AM <pbirkel at gmail.com <mailto:pbirkel at gmail.com> > wrote:

Of possible interest is a poorly identified (and a bit rough) BRPE11 on eBay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/296166916217

 

I suspect from other sources (https://museum.wales/collections/online/object/a7dea37f-0f0a-3cfc-833e-f22b59972974/Paper-tape-puncher/) that?s a BRPE6 base -- hence the electrical support for an 8-level punch.  However the CDC 160 used the BRPE11 and that was a 7-level paper I/O system.  So apparently this may be a 7-level unit.  The vendor confirmed that there are only 4 relays/solenoids on the right.  I think that the mechanics and tape feed ought to work fine as a 6-level unit given the design of my BRPE21 tape feed mechanism.

 

I?ve suggested that the seller remove the punch cover and post suitable pictures.  And relabel the listing appropriately!

 

Unfortunately this unit falls in the valley between supporting the much more common 5-level and 8-level tapes.

 

Interestingly https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/objects/co62588/westrex-8-hole-paper-tape-punch-punch claims that a ?Westrex? unit used a BRPE11, yet was ?8 hole?.  I suspect that they included the feed hole in the count.

 

The "laid back" reel support is interesting (ignoring the fact that the reel isn't properly engaged in the photo).  That design is confirmed by:  https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102696402 

 

paul

 

 

 

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From w9ddd at tapr.org  Sat Jan 20 13:07:14 2024
From: w9ddd at tapr.org (John, W9DDD)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2024 12:07:14 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] BRPE models
In-Reply-To: <01dd01da4ab9$76504c30$62f0e490$@gmail.com>
References: <CAB55hNdS=y0X5m+u49xD3eR3qMWv=D=Qpb2wFXn11VbtqTwwUg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BN7PR04MB4036445C68EF4DDBC39FBBE0A8712@BN7PR04MB4036.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
	<01dd01da4ab9$76504c30$62f0e490$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <07c3e2d1-87c5-72f7-fc26-a825cba83026@tapr.org>

Is this the bit that switches between 11/16 and 1" tapr.

---
----
You said "tomorrow" yesterday.

The above comments or recommendations are SWAG. Use at your own risk.
John, W9DDD

On 1/19/2024 3:25 AM, pbirkel at gmail.com wrote:
> 1154B_BRPE_Parts_Catalog_Jul1960.pdf, PDF page 5, includes a table
> identifying the changeover from contacts to a magnetic pickup (starting with
> BRPE6 apparently).  It looks like the transistorized controller was
> introduced at the same time.  I presume that Nick was quoting from there
> :->.
>
> What was the purpose of the "ADVANCED" feed hole design?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net <greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net>
> On Behalf Of Jones, Douglas W via GreenKeys
> Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2024 2:47 PM
> To: Nick England <navy.radio at gmail.com>; Greenkeys
> <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
> Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] [External] BRPE models
>
> From: Nick England [navy.radio at gmail.com] -- Thursday, January 18, 2024 1:12
> PM
>
>> 1) The pickup for early models 1-5 were electrical switches, whereas the
> "new style" (BRPE6 and up) had a magnetic pickup - the parts books, etc.
> make that distinction.
>
> No, there were 3 pickups to generate the sync pulse at various times:
> 1 - mechanical -- very early models
> 2 - magnetic pickup with rigid cable in tube, permanent magnet in pickup and
> moving iron slug in rim of flywheel
> 3 - magnetic pickup with flexible cable and permanent magnet in rim of
> flywheel -- late models
>
> These variations required changes in the drive electronics, so they, like
> the different punch magnet operating voltages, had to be options the
> customer could specify when ordering replacement units or parts.
>
> And there were several ypes of cover over the punch itself
>
> 1 - with window, without notch for tape-feed lever -- very early models
> 1 - with window and notch -- early models
> 2 - without window -- late models
>
> I don't think they made any model number changes for the with and without
> window covers, and I'm not clear on BRPEs made without a tape feed lever,
> but I see in the parts list or manuals that these options existed.
>
>             Doug
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message
> delivered to pbirkel at gmail.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
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From douglas-w-jones at uiowa.edu  Sat Jan 20 22:40:43 2024
From: douglas-w-jones at uiowa.edu (Jones, Douglas W)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2024 03:40:43 +0000
Subject: [GreenKeys] BRPE models
In-Reply-To: <07c3e2d1-87c5-72f7-fc26-a825cba83026@tapr.org>
References: <CAB55hNdS=y0X5m+u49xD3eR3qMWv=D=Qpb2wFXn11VbtqTwwUg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BN7PR04MB4036445C68EF4DDBC39FBBE0A8712@BN7PR04MB4036.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
	<01dd01da4ab9$76504c30$62f0e490$@gmail.com>
	<07c3e2d1-87c5-72f7-fc26-a825cba83026@tapr.org>
Message-ID: <BN7PR04MB403696C7F030FD5F431F4242A8762@BN7PR04MB4036.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>

From: John, W9DDD [w9ddd at tapr.org] -- Saturday, January 20, 2024 12:07 PM

> Is this the bit that switches between 11/16 and 1" tapr.

The bit in the illustration you posted is the one that makes conversion easy with click stops and detents.  The other approach to conversion involves a little fiddly guide that screws to the punch block with a pair of 0-80 screws and can be positioned to guide different tape widths by pulling the screws, moving the guide and then screwing them back in.  Oval slots in the guide and extra screw holes make it adjustable over a wide range, but it's not an adjustment you want to do casually.

The other way to adjust the rear edge of the tape involves spacers you use to shim the tape guide forward.  Again, a bit ugly but between the guide screwed to the punch block and the spacers, they make it possible to convert an 8-level machine to just about any width of tape.

And the switches to turn off some of the magnets?  I'd have expected the software driving the punch to take care of that in computer-driven applications.

From pbirkel at gmail.com  Sun Jan 21 03:56:56 2024
From: pbirkel at gmail.com (pbirkel at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2024 03:56:56 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] BRPE models
In-Reply-To: <BN7PR04MB403696C7F030FD5F431F4242A8762@BN7PR04MB4036.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAB55hNdS=y0X5m+u49xD3eR3qMWv=D=Qpb2wFXn11VbtqTwwUg@mail.gmail.com>	<BN7PR04MB4036445C68EF4DDBC39FBBE0A8712@BN7PR04MB4036.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>	<01dd01da4ab9$76504c30$62f0e490$@gmail.com>	<07c3e2d1-87c5-72f7-fc26-a825cba83026@tapr.org>
	<BN7PR04MB403696C7F030FD5F431F4242A8762@BN7PR04MB4036.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <012101da4c47$c9b740b0$5d25c210$@gmail.com>

Well, I'm the new kid here but I think that we're missing a point regarding
handling tapes of different widths.  AFAICS there are only two positions for
the "guiding edge" (the rear tape edge) WRT the punch block.  Either the
tape is aligned to use the zero-level (7/8" and 1" tape) or aligned to omit
the zero-level (11/16" tape) hole punch.  Ref:
https://www.navy-radio.com/tty/brpe/hole-config.jpg

Teletype implemented mechanisms such that either the Tape Guide Bracket (PN
142942) is permanently affixed at the proper position WRT the bunch block or
it has a two-position click-detent mechanism in the case of use with the
"universal" punch block.  In either case the Tape Guide Bracket alone is
insufficient to ensure that the tape remains positioned against the guide --
it only constrains one edge of the tape which might wander away from it or
even skew as it reaches the punch pins, resulting in mispositioning or a
jam.  While one might count on drag from the tape roll and various rollers,
turns, and fricative surfaces there would be no positive positioning control
ensuring that the tape remains precisely aligned as it enters the punch
mechanism.

The "universal" punch block (on my BRPE21) includes a swing-down guide
positioned for the front-edge of a 11/16" tape (and is machined with an
internal guide for the front-edge of a 1" tape); simultaneous with the
swing-down of the 11/15" front-edge guide there is a rear guide that is
brought forward to position the rear tape-edge to align properly for the
one-level hole punch.  It's a both-or-neither action that is independent of
the two-position detent for the far/rear edge of the separate Tape Guide
Bracket, which must itself be correctly positioned.

The "regular" punch block apparently has a permanently affixed front-edge
guide (Tape Bias "Spring" PN 142897), although it is slotted for two screws
and therefore might be sufficiently adjustable in an 8-level configuration
to correctly guide a 7/8" tape.  See the diagram on the bottom half of Page
10 in "215B_BRPE_Technical_Manual_May1971.pdf ".  So a (e.g.) BRPE11 "6 - ,
7- , or 8- level, 7/8" or 1" width fully perforated paper tape output" might
front-edge guide a 7/8" tape properly if there is sufficient adjustment in
positioning the Tape Biasing Spring, but AFAICS that would be either a
two-screw field adjustment or an as-shipped configuration not intended to be
later adjusted to position a 1" tape.  As Doug said, "fiddly", but he
implies that there is sufficient "play" there to bring the front-edge "tape
biasing" guide to a correct 7/8" position.

Doug also noted that by the use of shims on the Tape Guide Bracket "they
make it possible to convert an 8-level machine to just about any width of
tape".  While that's possible, AFAICS that's not how Teletype did it, nor an
ideal approach as the Tape Guide Bracket only provides general tape
alignment while the punch block and attached mechanisms provide precise tape
positioning just prior to the row of punch pins.  I suspect that trying to
punch a 5-level tape based on merely shimming the Tape Guide Bracket but
using a "fixed" 8-level punch block will result in a tape that will
intermittently bind a mechanical 5-level reader as the tape may wander a bit
side-to-side as it passes under the punch pins.  An optical reader would
probably be insensitive to that amount wander for the data holes but perhaps
that amount of wander in the feedhole could prove problematic.  I expect
that getting the initial tape feed "just so" to ensure correct alignment of
the initially punched feed holes will help keep the tape feeding "true";
that would be a "fiddly" operation requiring a bit of care and "good"
tensioning of the tape along the feed-path prior to the Tape Guide Bracket
both when setting up the tape initially and then throughout the punch
operation.

In my BRPE21 there's no possibility of adjustment to properly constrain the
front edge of a 7/8" tape.  One is entirely dependent on drag from the tape
roll and various rollers, turns, and fricative surfaces to ensure that the
tape "holds true" against the Tape Guide Bracket and remains that way as it
proceeds through the punch block as the front edge guide in the punch block
mechanism is designed for a 1" tape.  From the Teletype design engineer
perspective it clearly was the case that they were more concerned about
excellent handling of 11/16" tape than the touchy handling of 7/8" tape;
couldn't have it both ways.  Their choice of priority assignment makes sense
to me.

-----Original Message-----
From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net <greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net>
On Behalf Of Jones, Douglas W via GreenKeys
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2024 10:41 PM
To: w9ddd at tapr.org; greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] BRPE models

From: John, W9DDD [w9ddd at tapr.org] -- Saturday, January 20, 2024 12:07 PM

> Is this the bit that switches between 11/16 and 1" tapr.

The bit in the illustration you posted is the one that makes conversion easy
with click stops and detents.  The other approach to conversion involves a
little fiddly guide that screws to the punch block with a pair of 0-80
screws and can be positioned to guide different tape widths by pulling the
screws, moving the guide and then screwing them back in.  Oval slots in the
guide and extra screw holes make it adjustable over a wide range, but it's
not an adjustment you want to do casually.

The other way to adjust the rear edge of the tape involves spacers you use
to shim the tape guide forward.  Again, a bit ugly but between the guide
screwed to the punch block and the spacers, they make it possible to convert
an 8-level machine to just about any width of tape.

And the switches to turn off some of the magnets?  I'd have expected the
software driving the punch to take care of that in computer-driven
applications.
______________________________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net

>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: 
>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: 
>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: 
>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: 
>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message
delivered to pbirkel at gmail.com


From navy.radio at gmail.com  Mon Jan 22 20:10:31 2024
From: navy.radio at gmail.com (Nick England)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2024 20:10:31 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] BRPE11
In-Reply-To: <002101da4bae$7e837cb0$7b8a7610$@gmail.com>
References: <02f901da4961$a6b0c930$f4125b90$@gmail.com>
	<CAE1er56vy3DFY2FHmHbYDTueZk3Xzdkb3fN_wXoSUHJJRMDHSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<002101da4bae$7e837cb0$7b8a7610$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB55hNf-S=2Us8AhhPKM1WMnUOqRRF0g3+DO=haZP3V1tEDucA@mail.gmail.com>

IF someone on the list bought this eBay item, please let us know the
details of the punch and tape guide when you get it.
We BRPE fans are very curious!
thanks,
Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com
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From navy.radio at gmail.com  Wed Jan 24 10:08:50 2024
From: navy.radio at gmail.com (Nick England)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2024 10:08:50 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] 15/32" tape for Wheatstone Perforator - eBay
Message-ID: <CAB55hNfh0wrr-5kvDQ9cw3b0xG83hCfG1UjdTFKwLd2H6nJcEA@mail.gmail.com>

Not mine, etc. but hard to find.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/176203032570

Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com
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From js at teletype.net  Wed Jan 24 20:22:15 2024
From: js at teletype.net (Jordan Spencer Cunningham)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2024 18:22:15 -0700
Subject: [GreenKeys] The Office of Silly Acronyms (BRPE)
Message-ID: <663dcf05-77fb-4bb6-8989-f323e5bba5b3@app.fastmail.com>

In this postmodern tech world, I'm not only used to having to remember a lot of acronyms but pronouncing them and hearing them pronounced silly with a straight face. For example:

SQL (see-cwull), RHEL (rell), DDoS (dee-doss), SaaS (sass or sazz), PaaS (pass or pazz), NAS (nass or nazz), NACL (nack-ull), CIDR (cider or cedar), LACP (lacey-pee), and one a coworker and I made up for CoreOS (I know, not really an acronym): "See Oreos".

All this talk of BRPE the past week or two has me saying "burpee" now whenever I see the acronym. Surely I'm not the only one?

-
Jordan Spencer Cunningham
teletype.net | GreenKeys Search Engine: teletype.net/gksearch
SMS via teletype: 385-308-4898 | Email via teletype: tty at nerdology.org
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From mooreericnyc at gmail.com  Wed Jan 24 20:39:06 2024
From: mooreericnyc at gmail.com (Eric Moore)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2024 19:39:06 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] The Office of Silly Acronyms (BRPE)
In-Reply-To: <663dcf05-77fb-4bb6-8989-f323e5bba5b3@app.fastmail.com>
References: <663dcf05-77fb-4bb6-8989-f323e5bba5b3@app.fastmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAE1er56CmNxJVben8kQ2DpSfRj_n4pLKJqmg25FFh53-HS0wAg@mail.gmail.com>

There was an arpe (arr-pee) a brpe (burpee) and a drpe (derpy) they skipped
the crpe for obvious reasons (I think, at least no one seems to have found
any records of a crappy punch)

-Eric

On Wed, Jan 24, 2024, 7:23?PM Jordan Spencer Cunningham <js at teletype.net>
wrote:

> In this postmodern tech world, I'm not only used to having to remember a
> lot of acronyms but pronouncing them and hearing them pronounced silly with
> a straight face. For example:
>
> SQL (see-cwull), RHEL (rell), DDoS (dee-doss), SaaS (sass or sazz), PaaS
> (pass or pazz), NAS (nass or nazz), NACL (nack-ull), CIDR (cider or cedar),
> LACP (lacey-pee), and one a coworker and I made up for CoreOS (I know, not
> really an acronym): "See Oreos".
>
> All this talk of BRPE the past week or two has me saying "burpee" now
> whenever I see the acronym. Surely I'm not the only one?
>
> -
> Jordan Spencer Cunningham
> teletype.net | GreenKeys Search Engine: teletype.net/gksearch
> SMS via teletype: 385-308-4898 | Email via teletype: tty at nerdology.org
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to mooreericnyc at gmail.com
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From macbax1 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 24 20:39:32 2024
From: macbax1 at gmail.com (Joe Clanin)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2024 19:39:32 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] The Office of Silly Acronyms (BRPE)
In-Reply-To: <663dcf05-77fb-4bb6-8989-f323e5bba5b3@app.fastmail.com>
References: <663dcf05-77fb-4bb6-8989-f323e5bba5b3@app.fastmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK1UwOZo0Qu9i8W03qNvmgMB2aN1nTxmpFk-aiR+Y3t5qShfDw@mail.gmail.com>

I've been reading it "bee arr pee ee", but I also like "brippee" as an
alternative. I bet Jim Haynes might have the right answer.

-Joe

On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 7:23?PM Jordan Spencer Cunningham <js at teletype.net>
wrote:

> In this postmodern tech world, I'm not only used to having to remember a
> lot of acronyms but pronouncing them and hearing them pronounced silly with
> a straight face. For example:
>
> SQL (see-cwull), RHEL (rell), DDoS (dee-doss), SaaS (sass or sazz), PaaS
> (pass or pazz), NAS (nass or nazz), NACL (nack-ull), CIDR (cider or cedar),
> LACP (lacey-pee), and one a coworker and I made up for CoreOS (I know, not
> really an acronym): "See Oreos".
>
> All this talk of BRPE the past week or two has me saying "burpee" now
> whenever I see the acronym. Surely I'm not the only one?
>
> -
> Jordan Spencer Cunningham
> teletype.net | GreenKeys Search Engine: teletype.net/gksearch
> SMS via teletype: 385-308-4898 | Email via teletype: tty at nerdology.org
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to macbax1 at gmail.com
>
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From jhhaynes at earthlink.net  Thu Jan 25 09:26:15 2024
From: jhhaynes at earthlink.net (Jim Haynes)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2024 08:26:15 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [GreenKeys] The Office of Silly Acronyms (BRPE)
In-Reply-To: <CAK1UwOZo0Qu9i8W03qNvmgMB2aN1nTxmpFk-aiR+Y3t5qShfDw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <663dcf05-77fb-4bb6-8989-f323e5bba5b3@app.fastmail.com>
	<CAK1UwOZo0Qu9i8W03qNvmgMB2aN1nTxmpFk-aiR+Y3t5qShfDw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a02bf6bf-a1e9-c730-a055-6de5582f5340@earthlink.net>


 	Burpee    like the seed company   and then DRPE was Durpee

 	I don't know what happened to CRPE if there ever was one, or
 	maybe skipped because it would have been   Crappy

On Wed, 24 Jan 2024, Joe Clanin wrote:

> I've been reading it "bee arr pee ee", but I also like "brippee" as an
> alternative. I bet Jim Haynes might have the right answer.
> -Joe
>

From navy.radio at gmail.com  Thu Jan 25 12:42:31 2024
From: navy.radio at gmail.com (Nick England)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2024 12:42:31 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] FWIW - 1954 High Speed Paper Tape for Computers
Message-ID: <CAB55hNeZ73mcKWVyGzZcx4yFmY8MVqETewkP7nd40-ez5jcw6g@mail.gmail.com>

https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/1455270.1455277

Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com
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From w9ddd at tapr.org  Thu Jan 25 12:54:59 2024
From: w9ddd at tapr.org (John, W9DDD)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2024 11:54:59 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] Motor bearings (TTY bearings in general?)
Message-ID: <0d3c7f54-07a4-5c1a-0d40-1b743a678164@tapr.org>

So I have one LMU3 (1/20 HP) motor with a noisy bearing.? Looking in the 
box of miscellaneous Teletype parts that have no P/N associated with 
them, I have some bearings of various size.? I have maybe 6-8 bearing 
that caught my attention, but turn out to have 10 mm ID.? Too big!? Then 
I found a couple of cans containing bearings.? One of them had the 
number 122201 written on the top. On the side there is a FSN of 
3110-00-540-4618.? That according to duck duck go, is a bearing with an 
8 mm ID.? Sounds good for the task at hand.

Also on the side is "LUB W/MIL-L-7870A.? First search result 
"LUBRICATING OIL, GENERAL PURPOSE, LOW TEMPERATURE" Not sure if the A 
suffix changes that. (interesting side note, I can buy MIL-PRF 7870 at 
shop.boeing.com)

The most recent Teletype information is to use KTS103 grease.? I haven't 
found an exact reference to that, but there are a lot of others that end 
in -103 like YM-103.

Back to the 10 mm ID bearings, I'm trying to think of where they may 
have been used.? My first thought was 14/15 motors, but the shaft size 
of them is the same as 28 motors, so I think that makes it doubtful.? 
Maybe the main shaft on either the 15 or 28?Also have some little ones I 
haven't measured yet.

-- 
---
----
You said "tomorrow" yesterday.

The above comments or recommendations are SWAG. Use at your own risk.
John, W9DDD

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From jhhaynes at earthlink.net  Thu Jan 25 15:49:01 2024
From: jhhaynes at earthlink.net (Jim Haynes)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2024 14:49:01 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [GreenKeys] Motor bearings (TTY bearings in general?)
In-Reply-To: <0d3c7f54-07a4-5c1a-0d40-1b743a678164@tapr.org>
References: <0d3c7f54-07a4-5c1a-0d40-1b743a678164@tapr.org>
Message-ID: <74b6a32a-f0c8-10ae-7833-72ee6b4486ba@earthlink.net>

I've changed a lot of noisy motor bearings, tho none recently.  I just
went to a bearing store in the city where I lived and bought what they
told me were the right size bearings.

 	---

 	"Ya can argue all ya wanna, but it's dif'rent than it was."
 	"No it ain't! No it ain't!  But ya gotta know the territory."
 		Meredith Willson, The Music Man

From go4retro at go4retro.com  Thu Jan 25 17:45:49 2024
From: go4retro at go4retro.com (RETRO Innovations)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2024 16:45:49 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] The Office of Silly Acronyms (BRPE)
In-Reply-To: <a02bf6bf-a1e9-c730-a055-6de5582f5340@earthlink.net>
References: <663dcf05-77fb-4bb6-8989-f323e5bba5b3@app.fastmail.com>
	<CAK1UwOZo0Qu9i8W03qNvmgMB2aN1nTxmpFk-aiR+Y3t5qShfDw@mail.gmail.com>
	<a02bf6bf-a1e9-c730-a055-6de5582f5340@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <85eac276-7869-49e5-a1c8-4b5bf6c43fbd@go4retro.com>

For those whose Google fu is just not up to snuff, If there was an ARPE, 
ARPE, and DRPE, I assume A,B,D were generations, but what does RPE stand 
for, if anything?? Something Paper Something?

Apologies if this is a dumb question, I am just very curious. But, my 
searches, while finding the units, doesn't share the acronym expansion, 
if one actually exists.

Jim


From craneplc at gmail.com  Thu Jan 25 09:01:14 2024
From: craneplc at gmail.com (Pete G)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2024 09:01:14 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Teletype #117781 Feeler Gauge Set
Message-ID: <CAB=DZVoXdGDbcwH2L4cOJZ_9YTG1JH1uaH3tEB7_udNqbuTfJA@mail.gmail.com>

Found today while browsing.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/285668505021
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From rttyelectronics at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 25 14:47:47 2024
From: rttyelectronics at yahoo.com (paul cembura)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2024 19:47:47 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [GreenKeys] Motor bearings (TTY bearings in general?)
In-Reply-To: <0d3c7f54-07a4-5c1a-0d40-1b743a678164@tapr.org>
References: <0d3c7f54-07a4-5c1a-0d40-1b743a678164@tapr.org>
Message-ID: <2040679107.514698.1706212067088@mail.yahoo.com>

 Hello AllI stock most of the bearings for all Teletype equipmentPaulMR RTTY
    On Thursday, January 25, 2024 at 09:55:33 AM PST, John, W9DDD <w9ddd at tapr.org> wrote:  
 
   
So I have one LMU3 (1/20 HP) motor with a noisy bearing.? Looking in the box of miscellaneous Teletype parts that have no P/N associated with them, I have some bearings of various size.? I have maybe 6-8 bearing that caught my attention, but turn out to have 10 mm ID.? Too big!? Then I found a couple of cans containing bearings.? One of them had the number 122201 written on the top.? On the side there is a FSN of 3110-00-540-4618.? That according to duck duck go, is a bearing with an 8 mm ID.? Sounds good for the task at hand.
 
Also on the side is "LUB W/MIL-L-7870A.? First search result "LUBRICATING OIL, GENERAL PURPOSE, LOW TEMPERATURE"? Not sure if the A suffix changes that. (interesting side note, I can buy MIL-PRF 7870 at shop.boeing.com)
 
 
 The most recent Teletype information is to use KTS103 grease.? I haven't found an exact reference to that, but there are a lot of others that end in -103 like YM-103.
 
 
Back to the 10 mm ID bearings, I'm trying to think of where they may have been used.? My first thought was 14/15 motors, but the shaft size of them is the same as 28 motors, so I think that makes it doubtful.? Maybe the main shaft on either the 15 or 28?? Also have some little ones I haven't measured yet.
 
 -- 
---
----
You said "tomorrow" yesterday.

The above comments or recommendations are SWAG. Use at your own risk.
John, W9DDD
 ______________________________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net

>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to rttyelectronics at yahoo.com  
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From douglas-w-jones at uiowa.edu  Thu Jan 25 18:06:46 2024
From: douglas-w-jones at uiowa.edu (Jones, Douglas W)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2024 23:06:46 +0000
Subject: [GreenKeys] [External] Re: The Office of Silly Acronyms (BRPE)
In-Reply-To: <85eac276-7869-49e5-a1c8-4b5bf6c43fbd@go4retro.com>
References: <663dcf05-77fb-4bb6-8989-f323e5bba5b3@app.fastmail.com>
	<CAK1UwOZo0Qu9i8W03qNvmgMB2aN1nTxmpFk-aiR+Y3t5qShfDw@mail.gmail.com>
	<a02bf6bf-a1e9-c730-a055-6de5582f5340@earthlink.net>
	<85eac276-7869-49e5-a1c8-4b5bf6c43fbd@go4retro.com>
Message-ID: <BN7PR04MB4036380C9A270901FD0959DCA87A2@BN7PR04MB4036.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>

From: RETRO Innovations [go4retro at go4retro.com] -- Thursday, January 25, 2024 4:45 PM

> For those whose Google fu is just not up to snuff, If there was an ARPE,
> ARPE, and DRPE, I assume A,B,D were generations, but what does RPE stand
> for, if anything?  Something Paper Something?

I assume RP stands for reperforator
E may stand for the fact it has an electrical, not mechanical interface to what drives it.

            Doug Jones

PS:  That 1950s paper on the BRPE from Teletype corp was a great find

From go4retro at go4retro.com  Thu Jan 25 19:46:39 2024
From: go4retro at go4retro.com (RETRO Innovations)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2024 18:46:39 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] [External] Re: The Office of Silly Acronyms (BRPE)
In-Reply-To: <BN7PR04MB4036380C9A270901FD0959DCA87A2@BN7PR04MB4036.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
References: <663dcf05-77fb-4bb6-8989-f323e5bba5b3@app.fastmail.com>
	<CAK1UwOZo0Qu9i8W03qNvmgMB2aN1nTxmpFk-aiR+Y3t5qShfDw@mail.gmail.com>
	<a02bf6bf-a1e9-c730-a055-6de5582f5340@earthlink.net>
	<85eac276-7869-49e5-a1c8-4b5bf6c43fbd@go4retro.com>
	<BN7PR04MB4036380C9A270901FD0959DCA87A2@BN7PR04MB4036.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <e1f921f7-5b40-4a2f-8fec-74426571efae@go4retro.com>

On 1/25/2024 5:06 PM, Jones, Douglas W wrote:
> From: RETRO Innovations [go4retro at go4retro.com] -- Thursday, January 25, 2024 4:45 PM
>
>> For those whose Google fu is just not up to snuff, If there was an ARPE,
>> ARPE, and DRPE, I assume A,B,D were generations, but what does RPE stand
>> for, if anything?  Something Paper Something?
> I assume RP stands for reperforator
> E may stand for the fact it has an electrical, not mechanical interface to what drives it.
>
>              Doug Jones
>
> PS:  That 1950s paper on the BRPE from Teletype corp was a great find

Thanks to you and Nick for this.? I had seen that word before, but would 
never have guessed that was the expansion.

And, hi, from 45 minutes east of you.

Jim

-- 
RETRO Innovations, Contemporary Gear for Classic Systems
www.go4retro.com
store.go4retro.com


From phearvada at gmail.com  Fri Jan 26 00:09:56 2024
From: phearvada at gmail.com (Paul Heller)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2024 22:09:56 -0700
Subject: [GreenKeys] FWIW - 1954 High Speed Paper Tape for Computers
In-Reply-To: <CAB55hNeZ73mcKWVyGzZcx4yFmY8MVqETewkP7nd40-ez5jcw6g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB55hNeZ73mcKWVyGzZcx4yFmY8MVqETewkP7nd40-ez5jcw6g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C7CBB5A-00EB-4019-8576-ADCE47C31EC0@gmail.com>

Nice article, Nick!



> On Jan 25, 2024, at 10:42 AM, Nick England <navy.radio at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/1455270.1455277 <https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/1455270.1455277>
> 
> Nick England K4NYW
> www.navy-radio.com <http://www.navy-radio.com/>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> 
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to phearvada at gmail.com

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From navy.radio at gmail.com  Fri Jan 26 07:29:34 2024
From: navy.radio at gmail.com (Nick England)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2024 07:29:34 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Teletype Apparatus Codes
Message-ID: <CAB55hNevuO3tXPRYwTw_Y45TpEAEUAYvDRphkmAALFk3ZyGq5Q@mail.gmail.com>

ARPEs and BRPEs oh my!

Teletype Corp had codes for everything- sometimes consistent and sometimes
puzzling.
Here are some general observations- I?m sure I have missed/muffed some.
Bxx for M15
Fxx for M14
Lxx for M28/M35
Uxx for M32/M33
Wxx for M38
Yxx for M37

I?ve compiled some (mostly M28) at
https://www.navy-radio.com/tty/apparatus.htm

Here?s a good example
LXD transmitter distributor
LXDB transmitter distributor Base
LXDC transmitter distributor Cover
LAXD another kind of transmitter distributor
LBXD another kind of transmitter distributor
LCXD ??

Then there are things like
LPE non-typing perforator
LTPE typing perforator
LPR typing reperforator
LRPE non-typing reperforator

The M14 non-typing reperf was RPE
So ARPE, BRPE, etc were new models of non-typing reperfs.

How in the world did Teletype keep track of everything before ubiquitous
computers???

Cheers
Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com
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From w9ddd at tapr.org  Sat Jan 27 14:06:25 2024
From: w9ddd at tapr.org (John, W9DDD)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2024 13:06:25 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] TKS103 Grease?
Message-ID: <914ad9bc-2708-20cb-ac9d-d74959861073@tapr.org>

Quouting from BSP 570-220-701TC issue 5.




Does anyone know what TKS103 grease is? I would have expected them to specify some KS number.

-- 
---
----
You said "tomorrow" yesterday.

The above comments or recommendations are SWAG. Use at your own risk.
John, W9DDD

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From navy.radio at gmail.com  Sat Jan 27 14:23:15 2024
From: navy.radio at gmail.com (Nick England)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2024 14:23:15 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] TKS103 Grease?
In-Reply-To: <914ad9bc-2708-20cb-ac9d-d74959861073@tapr.org>
References: <914ad9bc-2708-20cb-ac9d-d74959861073@tapr.org>
Message-ID: <CAB55hNdmi+pt4v21mvtfh5afxA0pF8h4SWRnk4OtGs1meRt8LA@mail.gmail.com>

The tools manual says 195298  is " Beacon #325 or TKS103"
So I assume Mobil Beacon 325 or equivalent will be OK
https://www.mobil.com/en-us/grease/pds/gl-xx-beacon-325


[image: image.png]

Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com


On Sat, Jan 27, 2024 at 2:06?PM John, W9DDD <w9ddd at tapr.org> wrote:

> Quouting from BSP 570-220-701TC issue 5.
>
> Does anyone know what TKS103 grease is? I would have expected them to specify some KS number.
>
> --
> ---
> ----
> You said "tomorrow" yesterday.
>
> The above comments or recommendations are SWAG. Use at your own risk.
> John, W9DDD
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to navy.radio at gmail.com
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From w9ddd at tapr.org  Sat Jan 27 14:47:46 2024
From: w9ddd at tapr.org (John, W9DDD)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2024 13:47:46 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] TKS103 Grease?
In-Reply-To: <914ad9bc-2708-20cb-ac9d-d74959861073@tapr.org>
References: <914ad9bc-2708-20cb-ac9d-d74959861073@tapr.org>
Message-ID: <af15f097-b9d4-1a66-6b35-d96a87d6c244@tapr.org>

OK seems I couldn't find the dyslectic version of TKS103. However once I 
corrected my search terms I got a hit for 570-004-701TC on of all 
places, navy-radio.com.? There it says Beacon 325 is the equivalent.? 
(hmm, is TKS Teletype Kearney Standard?)

Unfortunately it seems to be unobtainable in small quantities. Don't 
know what I'd do with a 25 lb bucket.? ($550.00 with shipping)

---
----
You said "tomorrow" yesterday.

The above comments or recommendations are SWAG. Use at your own risk.
John, W9DDD

On 1/27/2024 1:06 PM, John, W9DDD wrote:
> Quouting from BSP 570-220-701TC issue 5.
>
>
>
>
> Does anyone know what TKS103 grease is? I would have expected them to specify some KS number.
>
> -- 
> ---
> ----
> You said "tomorrow" yesterday.
>
> The above comments or recommendations are SWAG. Use at your own risk.
> John, W9DDD
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to w9ddd at tapr.org

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From w9ddd at tapr.org  Sat Jan 27 22:24:52 2024
From: w9ddd at tapr.org (John, W9DDD)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2024 21:24:52 -0600
Subject: [GreenKeys] TKS103 Grease?
In-Reply-To: <65B59429.9256.18D67532@JIM.W2JC.GMAIL.COM>
References: <914ad9bc-2708-20cb-ac9d-d74959861073@tapr.org>
	<65B59429.9256.18D67532@JIM.W2JC.GMAIL.COM>
Message-ID: <9cb0985c-53f3-e639-5e6e-36b7d43754b3@tapr.org>

Hi Jim et al,

Nick and others have pointed to various references to Beacon 326.  I'm a 
little disappointed that I didn't find them myself, since I've been a 
bit of a bookworm on Teletype docs.

Unfortunately google hasn't found anything less than a bucket.  I just 
want a tube or 1lb tub.

I suspect if I study it further I will find that something is close 
enough.  After all most of us don't run these machine 24/7.

Need to contact my brother who is a certified aircraft mechanic, 
although I'm not sure how much he knows about delicate instruments 
(referenced as an application for Beacon 325) with everything going 
electronic.


On 1/27/2024 5:39 PM, Jim Cooper wrote:
> On 27 Jan 2024 at 13:06, John, W9DDD wrote:
> > Does anyone know what TKS103 grease
> > is? I would have expected them to
> > specify some KS number.
> graphic
> graphic
> google is your friend...
> w2jc

-- 
---
----
The above comments or recommendations are SWAG. Use at your own risk.

John, W9DDD

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From djones at k6yic.com  Sun Jan 28 12:49:55 2024
From: djones at k6yic.com (Daniel Jones)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2024 09:49:55 -0800
Subject: [GreenKeys] Nice KTR eBay
Message-ID: <371E08C5-41A0-4B47-9046-46E614FB2FC4@k6yic.com>

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From rttyelectronics at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 27 15:01:30 2024
From: rttyelectronics at yahoo.com (paul cembura)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2024 20:01:30 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [GreenKeys] TKS103 Grease?
In-Reply-To: <af15f097-b9d4-1a66-6b35-d96a87d6c244@tapr.org>
References: <914ad9bc-2708-20cb-ac9d-d74959861073@tapr.org>
	<af15f097-b9d4-1a66-6b35-d96a87d6c244@tapr.org>
Message-ID: <2025358035.943499.1706385690375@mail.yahoo.com>

 A little more info on the grease.
Mil-G-3278 greaseSignal Corps? 6G650ATT? KS7471? ? ?Comcode 400146668 for a 4 Oz tube or 400146876 for a 1Lb canMr rtty

    On Saturday, January 27, 2024 at 11:48:46 AM PST, John, W9DDD <w9ddd at tapr.org> wrote:  
 
  
OK seems I couldn't find the dyslectic version of TKS103.? However once I corrected my search terms I got a hit for 570-004-701TC on of all places, navy-radio.com.? There it says Beacon 325 is the equivalent.? (hmm, is TKS Teletype Kearney Standard?) 
 
 
Unfortunately it seems to be unobtainable in small quantities. Don't know what I'd do with a 25 lb bucket.? ($550.00 with shipping)

  ---
----
You said "tomorrow" yesterday.

The above comments or recommendations are SWAG. Use at your own risk.
John, W9DDD
 On 1/27/2024 1:06 PM, John, W9DDD wrote:
  
 
Quouting from BSP 570-220-701TC issue 5.




Does anyone know what TKS103 grease is? I would have expected them to specify some KS number.

-- 
---
----
You said "tomorrow" yesterday.

The above comments or recommendations are SWAG. Use at your own risk.
John, W9DDD
 
  
 ______________________________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net

 
 
 
 Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
 
 
 
 This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.netPlease help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.htmlMessage delivered to w9ddd at tapr.org 
 ______________________________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net

>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to rttyelectronics at yahoo.com  
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From jeffg at junknet.net  Sun Jan 28 22:37:20 2024
From: jeffg at junknet.net (Jeffrey Golas)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2024 22:37:20 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Comparing td/LXD coils
Message-ID: <F88C2A89-86A0-48C9-A321-EB12E1608C1D@junknet.net>

At the ship Im still working on a 28ASR dome top that I call "#2" (as theres another one next to it known as #1). I havent posted here about it in some time but over the last year I pieced it back together and in December I got it running for the first time in 20+ years. Nearly every single wire/harness in it was cut. We have a former TTY tech who went through the printer as well. I had to swap the keyboard base with another as its gearset and plug were both smashed. We put in a 45.5 baud gearset and Ive had a few QSOs with Nick from the ship!

Anywhoo...as this is really a Navy UGC-48A, it used low-level signalling (which I also fixed), but skipped the clutch ESA as thats only really used with encryption.

The downside is the coils in the tape reader seem to be different from a stock 28, in that they run about 75 ohms each instead of the 210ohms Ive seen in other manuals. In this unit it would have been powered by the clutch esa, but it would take a lot of effort to fix. I think it would have been 50-90v ish and likely pulsed.

Does anyone know if I can just hook 120vac up to them...maybe with a resistor? Another 28 manual said to switch the 210ohm coils to parallel if running non-pulsed 120vac which would be 105 ohm and prob pull an amp. These Id have to leave in series to get 140ohms or so. Would that work?

I confirmed the tape reader works otherwise, I just dont want to burn these up. Maybe its easier to just find a pair of stock coils?

Jeff

From navy.radio at gmail.com  Mon Jan 29 11:27:58 2024
From: navy.radio at gmail.com (Nick England)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2024 11:27:58 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Comparing td/LXD coils
In-Reply-To: <F88C2A89-86A0-48C9-A321-EB12E1608C1D@junknet.net>
References: <F88C2A89-86A0-48C9-A321-EB12E1608C1D@junknet.net>
Message-ID: <CAB55hNdt5+w0iJLEYqZZYXN6DNLyDhqNVerJq+ySyit1Y3qR_A@mail.gmail.com>

 Remember that 105 ohms is DC resistance but the AC impedance is much
higher. You won?t draw an amp on 115vac

The ESA Clutch Magnet Driver (CMD) says it can be set for use with
one 252M solenoid (keyboard sync solenoid) - 107-132 madc
two 256M solenoids in series (LXD TD clutches) - 124-156 madc
or one 278M solenoid (UGC-77 photoelectric distributor clutch) 36-56 madc

My solenoid chart says
https://www.navy-radio.com/tty/tty-magnets.htm
256M 74 ohms 100madc or 60vac (LXD TD clutch)

SO wire your two 74 ohm TD clutches in series and you should be all set to
run on 120vac - they are probably already wired in series.
No warranty, etc.....

The WD note says -
115V AC POWER TO BE USED ON CLUTCH
TRIP MAGNET ASSEMBLY CIRCUIT.
(256M COIL ASSEMBLIES, 74 ohm.EACH)
FOR DC OPERATION ADD SUFFICIENT EXTERNAL
RESISTANCE TO LIMIT CURRENT TO 100 M.A.

Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com


On Sun, Jan 28, 2024 at 10:37?PM Jeffrey Golas <jeffg at junknet.net> wrote:

> At the ship Im still working on a 28ASR dome top that I call "#2" (as
> theres another one next to it known as #1). I havent posted here about it
> in some time but over the last year I pieced it back together and in
> December I got it running for the first time in 20+ years. Nearly every
> single wire/harness in it was cut. We have a former TTY tech who went
> through the printer as well. I had to swap the keyboard base with another
> as its gearset and plug were both smashed. We put in a 45.5 baud gearset
> and Ive had a few QSOs with Nick from the ship!
>
> Anywhoo...as this is really a Navy UGC-48A, it used low-level signalling
> (which I also fixed), but skipped the clutch ESA as thats only really used
> with encryption.
>
> The downside is the coils in the tape reader seem to be different from a
> stock 28, in that they run about 75 ohms each instead of the 210ohms Ive
> seen in other manuals. In this unit it would have been powered by the
> clutch esa, but it would take a lot of effort to fix. I think it would have
> been 50-90v ish and likely pulsed.
>
> Does anyone know if I can just hook 120vac up to them...maybe with a
> resistor? Another 28 manual said to switch the 210ohm coils to parallel if
> running non-pulsed 120vac which would be 105 ohm and prob pull an amp.
> These Id have to leave in series to get 140ohms or so. Would that work?
>
> I confirmed the tape reader works otherwise, I just dont want to burn
> these up. Maybe its easier to just find a pair of stock coils?
>
> Jeff
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to navy.radio at gmail.com
>
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From jhhaynes at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 29 23:00:16 2024
From: jhhaynes at earthlink.net (Jim Haynes)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2024 22:00:16 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [GreenKeys] Teletype code prefixes
Message-ID: <c9c750d4-b4f4-df82-962-88a2dfc359b5@earthlink.net>


It's rumored that the F prefix is to mean Fourteen.

Which rules out using it for Model 15, so the B prefix is said to
mean Bell

That makes one wonder if Model 12 has a Teletype code and what the
prefix was.

Now there's the venerable "iron horse" keyboard perforator GPE and
I suspect that the G comes from Green Code.  The early Teletype products
were Green Code, much like today's Baudot/Murray code, and made for
Western Union which had green as a corporate color.  There was also
the Blue Code used by Postal Telegraph which had blue as a corporate
color.  But if they had used B prefix for Blue Code machines they could
not have had it for Model 15.

Then there was a keyboard perforator coded DPE which was basically a
Model 19 keyboard perforator without a signal generator.  I'm guessing
that they wanted to eliminate the GPE product but the Model 28 perforator
was not yet ready for production.  So they could satisfy orders for the
GPE with the DPE, since Model 19 was still in production at the time.
I have no idea what the D stands for, if anything, and if there were any
other prducts besides the DPE.

The L prefix was used for both Model 28 and Model 35 since they were
basically the same design.  The distinction was made by starting the
Model 35 codes with an 8 for 8 level.  I have no idea what the L stands
for, if anything.  Similarly Model 32/33 uses the U prefix and the
8 for Model 33 versus 32.

We have the XD code for transmitter-distributor which I'm told was
considered part of the Model 14 line but then it was also used in Model 
19.  And there is the MXD for multiple-headed transmitter-distributors,
made in 3-headed and 6-headed versions for torn-tape switching.  And
FRXD for the Model 14 based typing reperforator part of that machine.
There was an LRXD which was a replacement for the FRXD, having the same
physical size and shape and functions but made with Model 28 machinery.
But more popular were the Model 28 "R-T stands" which held large tape
supply and takeup reels and a narrow form factor.

Now it's curious that the stock ticker using Model 37 technology is
called a Model 28 machine in Bell System literature.  Maybe they meant
to reserve Model 37 for more glamorous products.  I don't know if the
circa 1930 black cube stock ticker had a code prefix.  I'm pretty sure
it didn't have a model number, since the model numbers were Bell System
things.  And I never heard a model number associated with Inktronic.

Finally there were the V prefix codes, VCL and VSL.  Before these existed 
if you wanted a Model 28 KSR set you had to get a sales engineer to 
specify the LAC, LK, LP, LMU and LESU which would get you the typebox and 
keyboard layout and the stunt box arrangement.  In the early 1960s they 
realized that there were certain popular combinations that might as well 
be given a single code.  VSL was for a "system" or "set", which is to say 
a complete off the shelf ready to use set.  VCL was for a machine that was 
itself a component of some larger set or system.

 	---

 	"Ya can argue all ya wanna, but it's dif'rent than it was."
 	"No it ain't! No it ain't!  But ya gotta know the territory."
 		Meredith Willson, The Music Man

From jeffg at junknet.net  Mon Jan 29 23:03:40 2024
From: jeffg at junknet.net (Jeffrey Golas)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2024 23:03:40 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Comparing td/LXD coils
In-Reply-To: <CAB55hNdt5+w0iJLEYqZZYXN6DNLyDhqNVerJq+ySyit1Y3qR_A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB55hNdt5+w0iJLEYqZZYXN6DNLyDhqNVerJq+ySyit1Y3qR_A@mail.gmail.com>
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From gblock at sbcglobal.net  Tue Jan 30 01:20:52 2024
From: gblock at sbcglobal.net (Gerry Block)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2024 22:20:52 -0800
Subject: [GreenKeys] Teletype code prefixes
In-Reply-To: <c9c750d4-b4f4-df82-962-88a2dfc359b5@earthlink.net>
References: <c9c750d4-b4f4-df82-962-88a2dfc359b5@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3D621C08-0A8A-434F-BFD8-9C5CECA4889C@sbcglobal.net>

hi. 
the stocker ticker was a model 5A. see prc68.com. 
gerry

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 29, 2024, at 8:00?PM, Jim Haynes <jhhaynes at earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> It's rumored that the F prefix is to mean Fourteen.
> 
> Which rules out using it for Model 15, so the B prefix is said to
> mean Bell
> 
> That makes one wonder if Model 12 has a Teletype code and what the
> prefix was.
> 
> Now there's the venerable "iron horse" keyboard perforator GPE and
> I suspect that the G comes from Green Code.  The early Teletype products
> were Green Code, much like today's Baudot/Murray code, and made for
> Western Union which had green as a corporate color.  There was also
> the Blue Code used by Postal Telegraph which had blue as a corporate
> color.  But if they had used B prefix for Blue Code machines they could
> not have had it for Model 15.
> 
> Then there was a keyboard perforator coded DPE which was basically a
> Model 19 keyboard perforator without a signal generator.  I'm guessing
> that they wanted to eliminate the GPE product but the Model 28 perforator
> was not yet ready for production.  So they could satisfy orders for the
> GPE with the DPE, since Model 19 was still in production at the time.
> I have no idea what the D stands for, if anything, and if there were any
> other prducts besides the DPE.
> 
> The L prefix was used for both Model 28 and Model 35 since they were
> basically the same design.  The distinction was made by starting the
> Model 35 codes with an 8 for 8 level.  I have no idea what the L stands
> for, if anything.  Similarly Model 32/33 uses the U prefix and the
> 8 for Model 33 versus 32.
> 
> We have the XD code for transmitter-distributor which I'm told was
> considered part of the Model 14 line but then it was also used in Model 19.  And there is the MXD for multiple-headed transmitter-distributors,
> made in 3-headed and 6-headed versions for torn-tape switching.  And
> FRXD for the Model 14 based typing reperforator part of that machine.
> There was an LRXD which was a replacement for the FRXD, having the same
> physical size and shape and functions but made with Model 28 machinery.
> But more popular were the Model 28 "R-T stands" which held large tape
> supply and takeup reels and a narrow form factor.
> 
> Now it's curious that the stock ticker using Model 37 technology is
> called a Model 28 machine in Bell System literature.  Maybe they meant
> to reserve Model 37 for more glamorous products.  I don't know if the
> circa 1930 black cube stock ticker had a code prefix.  I'm pretty sure
> it didn't have a model number, since the model numbers were Bell System
> things.  And I never heard a model number associated with Inktronic.
> 
> Finally there were the V prefix codes, VCL and VSL.  Before these existed if you wanted a Model 28 KSR set you had to get a sales engineer to specify the LAC, LK, LP, LMU and LESU which would get you the typebox and keyboard layout and the stunt box arrangement.  In the early 1960s they realized that there were certain popular combinations that might as well be given a single code.  VSL was for a "system" or "set", which is to say a complete off the shelf ready to use set.  VCL was for a machine that was itself a component of some larger set or system.
> 
>    ---
> 
>    "Ya can argue all ya wanna, but it's dif'rent than it was."
>    "No it ain't! No it ain't!  But ya gotta know the territory."
>        Meredith Willson, The Music Man
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> 
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to gblock at sbcglobal.net


From jhhaynes at earthlink.net  Tue Jan 30 08:04:21 2024
From: jhhaynes at earthlink.net (Jim Haynes)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2024 07:04:21 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [GreenKeys] Teletype code prefixes
In-Reply-To: <3D621C08-0A8A-434F-BFD8-9C5CECA4889C@sbcglobal.net>
References: <c9c750d4-b4f4-df82-962-88a2dfc359b5@earthlink.net>
	<3D621C08-0A8A-434F-BFD8-9C5CECA4889C@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <53867387-d576-57b0-b2e7-7cae5f79984d@earthlink.net>

On Mon, 29 Jan 2024, Gerry Block wrote:

> hi.
> the stocker ticker was a model 5A. see prc68.com.
> gerry
>
I think that is a Western Union number.  By then Model 15 was already
well established in the Teletype Bell System product line.

From navy.radio at gmail.com  Wed Jan 31 12:43:39 2024
From: navy.radio at gmail.com (Nick England)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2024 12:43:39 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Fwd: Setting M42 installer options
In-Reply-To: <CAB55hNcFNwo77nRD-mLePBYTcQiWz_iDnOmooX0YANfVLd49wA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB55hNdt84Ykty+SGA=sbkxraSQ3AxjQhmNO8SBYu07bHcLD+g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAB55hNffuUJzsOqzp3dXknsXMRgcUKTzqUeHK+=QDd4GC7=JAw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAB55hNc6zvvCS=C5F7ho_P3TvuLY3mRqqpZeOPPjPMxiRmn5gw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAB55hNcFNwo77nRD-mLePBYTcQiWz_iDnOmooX0YANfVLd49wA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB55hNeffJHbtvsWN7sFSXo90MNxa-um9hOUGjN22BjReJnnUw@mail.gmail.com>

Periodic plea for help setting my M42 options. Looking for installation
manual 518M

On Wed, Nov 3, 2021 at 10:27 PM Nick England <navy.radio at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> My M42 is a "Basic" Telex unit (no buffer memory)  and I can't find a
> similar set of DIP switches. Dang! There must be some way to enable an
> installer to set options beyond DbLF (Double Line Feed) which is where my
> M42 stops. Otherwise I can't set the Baud Rate or Answer-Back, etc.!
> Does anyone have 518M which is installation info for the Basic M42? That
> might give me a clue. Did any of you guys ever install a Telex M42 and have
> dim memories of how to set the Answer-back?
>
> Thanks,
> Nick England K4NYW
> www.navy-radio.com
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 11:43 AM Nick England <navy.radio at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> FWIW, here is a list of the M42 options (thanks to Leanne W1WXS)
>> https://www.navy-radio.com/tty/m42/m42_144908451.jpg
>> The leftmost column options are listed in the 516M manual as "User
>> Programmable" while the rest are the "Installer Programmable" ones which I
>> can't figure out how to change,,,,
>> Nick
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 2:18 PM Nick England <navy.radio at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have finally figured out some options on my Telex Basic M42 ASR
>>> (thanks to greenkeyer Leanne for a copy of 516M).
>>> But when I get to the end of the User Programmable Options list, I am
>>> stuck.
>>> How do I access the Installer Programmable Options like baud rate,
>>> answer-back, etc.
>>>
>>> Probably the magic switch is staring me in the face, but I can?t figure
>>> it out. I am fully prepared to slap my forehead and say Doh! if someone can
>>> please enlighten me.
>>> Cheers
>>> Nick
>>>
>>
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From jeffg at junknet.net  Wed Jan 31 13:05:01 2024
From: jeffg at junknet.net (Jeffrey Golas)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2024 13:05:01 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Fwd: Setting M42 installer options
In-Reply-To: <CAB55hNeffJHbtvsWN7sFSXo90MNxa-um9hOUGjN22BjReJnnUw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB55hNeffJHbtvsWN7sFSXo90MNxa-um9hOUGjN22BjReJnnUw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5B1D2F79-C828-4F2F-BA03-50DC7249BA47@junknet.net>

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