From nick at navy-radio.com  Wed Oct  1 08:51:54 2025
From: nick at navy-radio.com (Nick England)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2025 08:51:54 -0400
Subject: [GreenKeys] White on black lettering?
In-Reply-To: <CAB55hNegS-LUxAtgit9RyxiThSEeeq3-zCHqpCer6madzd+PWg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB55hNegS-LUxAtgit9RyxiThSEeeq3-zCHqpCer6madzd+PWg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB55hNfNRDZddmENes53-it23KEVgsc-HPDL+th840yaaAoB6g@mail.gmail.com>

> From a discussion Bambi and I have recently had-
>
> Many model 28 machines have white on black writable labels (using white
> carbon paper) on either side of the keyboard for recording circuit or
> service information. e.g.
> https://www.navy-radio.com/tty/ksr/tt307-k6yic-01.jpeg
>
> So why white on black?
> Better visibility in low light conditions or ??
> Is there any official explanation?
>
> Nick England K4NYW
> www.navy-radio.com
>
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From nick at navy-radio.com  Wed Oct  1 09:07:23 2025
From: nick at navy-radio.com (Nick England)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2025 09:07:23 -0400
Subject: [GreenKeys] M28 info labels white on black
Message-ID: <CAB55hNeF+E068cnxZpY_VDpvKdscsr0O1r-Y=3wvO9fkeE6X7Q@mail.gmail.com>

>From a discussion Bambi and I have recently had-

Many model 28 machines have white on black writable labels (using white
carbon paper) on either side of the keyboard for recording circuit or
service information. e.g.
https://www.navy-radio.com/tty/ksr/tt307-k6yic-01.jpeg

So why white on black?
Better visibility in low light conditions or ??
Is there any official explanation?

Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com
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From john at tubetestingpros.com  Wed Oct  1 14:21:52 2025
From: john at tubetestingpros.com (John Lawson)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2025 18:21:52 +0000
Subject: [GreenKeys] Off topic ping for Jordan Cunningham
Message-ID: <CH3PR19MB79298C0514E1AB08778EE43BD8E6A@CH3PR19MB7929.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>


Jordan  - if you didn't see my emails, check yer Spam Jail....   Thnx!

<intrusion ends>


Cheerz
John KB6SCO
Carson City NV
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From john at tubetestingpros.com  Wed Oct  1 21:00:48 2025
From: john at tubetestingpros.com (John Lawson)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2025 01:00:48 +0000
Subject: [GreenKeys] Western Union tape printer
Message-ID: <CH3PR19MB7929FAC9550544204FF2D042D8E7A@CH3PR19MB7929.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>


Here is  a Western Union stock ticker(?) tape printer(?) - I know nothing about these units. I have moved the motor by hand and everything seems free and working.  Has inner case and outer padded black laquer sound-proof box.

Free To Good Home; you pay shipping FedEx or UPS Ground. I pack obsessively. This a heavy device - will probably ship machine and black case seperately....

Ship to CONUS addresses only...


Cheerz
John KB6SCO
Dayton NV
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From john at tubetestingpros.com  Wed Oct  1 21:07:16 2025
From: john at tubetestingpros.com (John Lawson)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2025 01:07:16 +0000
Subject: [GreenKeys] TT138/FCG-39 TD Mod 28? NIB
Message-ID: <CH3PR19MB79290B14A4D2F40BF94C396DD8E7A@CH3PR19MB7929.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>


Here is a new-in-box tape transmitter - for Mod 28?

Free to Good Home - you pay shipping; Fedex or UPS Ground.

Ship to CONUS Addresses only...

Cheerz
John KB6SCO
Carson City NV
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From bambi.page at gmail.com  Wed Oct  1 21:11:40 2025
From: bambi.page at gmail.com (bambi.page)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2025 11:11:40 +1000
Subject: [GreenKeys] =?utf-8?q?Model_28_=E2=80=94_White_carbon_paper?=
In-Reply-To: <CAATx=04dUpzctzgF1ggSWrapaKe-B+zfN4rPmOjU48gahdTf0w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAATx=07wBU7kkJjfx8m4RhMars=-q4oPkyX1qxvfZQb5fUSCaA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAATx=04dUpzctzgF1ggSWrapaKe-B+zfN4rPmOjU48gahdTf0w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAATx=07N0RGmKiz3=sPjxFKsk=QKfUmKuC8qidwHXAmNR0VyYA@mail.gmail.com>

 White Carbon Paper mystery - I offer this solution ...
The instructions maybe all relating to the White carbon paper and black
sheet that are in the 'Label Set' that is under the instruction sheet.
(Parts manual extract diagram attached)
Presumably this was so users could customize a label on each side of the
keyboard - with white characters on a black background.
I haven't as yet found any photographs of keyboards where users have made
their own labels, so perhaps this 'feature' was seldom used.
So I would feel that the instructions are only relating to the label set
stored behind, and not relating to general printing.
Would a member like to show us this label set? *smiles*.
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From john at tubetestingpros.com  Wed Oct  1 21:12:15 2025
From: john at tubetestingpros.com (John Lawson)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2025 01:12:15 +0000
Subject: [GreenKeys] Western Union 41c Relay
Message-ID: <CH3PR19MB79291796DE5EA094B779B563D8E7A@CH3PR19MB7929.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>


  Western Union 41C Polar(?) Unipolar(?) South Polar(?)    Relay -

Free To Good Home, y'all cover shipping.

Ship to CONUS adresses only.

Cheerz
John KB6SCO
Carson City, NV
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From john at tubetestingpros.com  Wed Oct  1 21:28:51 2025
From: john at tubetestingpros.com (John Lawson)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2025 01:28:51 +0000
Subject: [GreenKeys] WU Printer spoken for
Message-ID: <CH3PR19MB792917523BABD79C1D43FD9CD8E7A@CH3PR19MB7929.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>


The lovely Western Union printing machine device thingy has been Spoken For.

That took minute after minute...  ;}


Cheers
John
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From nagle at animats.com  Thu Oct  2 04:01:40 2025
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2025 01:01:40 -0700
Subject: [GreenKeys] Western Union tape printer
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6777.1759366904.2991.greenkeys@mailman.qth.net>
References: <mailman.6777.1759366904.2991.greenkeys@mailman.qth.net>
Message-ID: <4f8a0f48-d1c6-4123-a6be-474d48a3e76b@animats.com>

> Subject: [GreenKeys] Western Union tape printer
> 
> Here is  a Western Union stock ticker(?) tape printer(?) - I know
> nothing about these units. I have moved the motor by hand and
> everything seems free and working.  Has inner case and outer padded
> black laquer sound-proof box.
> 
> Free To Good Home; you pay shipping FedEx or UPS Ground. I pack
> obsessively. This a heavy device - will probably ship machine and
> black case seperately....
> 
> Ship to CONUS addresses only...
> 
> Cheerz John KB6SCO Dayton NV

That's the Western Union 5A "High Speed Stock Ticker", circa 1930.

https://www.prc68.com/I/WU5A.shtml

Those are relatively rare, but not very useful. They receive a 6-level
code used only for stock tickers. Since the ticker system used
one centralized sender for thousands of receivers, nobody has
a matching sending device, although you could generate the
waveforms with a computer.

The code is not compatible with anything else. The 6th bit
is the "shift", so there's no LTRS/FIGS thing.

It's a printing drum type machine, rather than a set of
typebars. Kind of like some British teleprinters.
Little commonality with other Teletype products.

The input is, I think, polar (that is, the voltage reverses,
rather than being on-off.

Unlike the brass ticker in a glass dome devices from the
Edison era, the "High Speed Ticker" is not a valuable
collectable.

				John Nagle

From depotter4707 at gmail.com  Thu Oct  2 16:10:23 2025
From: depotter4707 at gmail.com (David Potter)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2025 15:10:23 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Typing Reperforator
Message-ID: <CAF_SoXnkern68vRF1hVrg+BrPD=ttzk4GqGP2DgOG9nNvv5Aqw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
Does anyone know if the typing reperforator is still available?
Thanks
David KA5IXE
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From john at tubetestingpros.com  Thu Oct  2 16:47:50 2025
From: john at tubetestingpros.com (John Lawson)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2025 20:47:50 +0000
Subject: [GreenKeys] Typing Reperforator
In-Reply-To: <CAF_SoXnkern68vRF1hVrg+BrPD=ttzk4GqGP2DgOG9nNvv5Aqw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF_SoXnkern68vRF1hVrg+BrPD=ttzk4GqGP2DgOG9nNvv5Aqw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CH3PR19MB7929AFB9E78DDD6045096A69D8E7A@CH3PR19MB7929.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>

Hi David!
The Model 14 has been spoken for.
Thanks!

Cheers
John KB6SCO
Carson City NV

From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net <greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net> On Behalf Of David Potter
Sent: Thursday, October 2, 2025 1:10 PM
To: Greenkeys <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: [GreenKeys] Typing Reperforator

Hi all, Does anyone know if the typing reperforator is still available? Thanks David KA5IXE ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
NkdkJdXPPEBannerStart
Be Careful With This Message
From (David Potter <depotter4707 at gmail.com>)<https://godaddy.cloud-protect.net/email-details/?k=k1&payload=53616c7465645f5f10232d5080be642daa2a1328c394c697b7916e8127225cbfb80ea606bcee38072d95b44cd4c95fa08531c04687e0ff82a4c9994fe6a52230d2749c533cc84642e5dfee622ea209091ad4b832fd9985936da75612df3c4d5a59f04759b3f2179801da3cb46084274ac5a62cc7ffb8a2c8edbe501e5a266b464923d699206a0ef97e34809b72430b659469268851163fd7f9c42ba18c7a203d36139c25dbbea0aec1baffaa01125af85dfbfa2967b3d57da31c7d830d0a7d3ed611e5fa485ba464e2e868fbdfff4e8ba74d61e8d5189df03f1490d6e888af0998daa5432f1082baf93f816f8777249f>
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NkdkJdXPPEBannerEnd
Hi all,
Does anyone know if the typing reperforator is still available?
Thanks
David KA5IXE
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From john at tubetestingpros.com  Thu Oct  2 19:08:33 2025
From: john at tubetestingpros.com (John Lawson)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2025 23:08:33 +0000
Subject: [GreenKeys] Mod 28 speed change gears
Message-ID: <DS0PR19MB7926EE0F9DEB398D7AB310F3D8E7A@DS0PR19MB7926.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>


Here's a Mod 28 Gear Box - 60/75/100...

Free To Good Home - you pay shipping.

Ship to CONUS addresses only...

Cheerz
John KB6SCO
Carson City, NV
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From john at tubetestingpros.com  Thu Oct  2 19:27:24 2025
From: john at tubetestingpros.com (John Lawson)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2025 23:27:24 +0000
Subject: [GreenKeys] Mod 28 Gearbox spoken for
Message-ID: <CH3PR19MB792905411247AAAE210C952AD8E7A@CH3PR19MB7929.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>


The 28 gearbox has found a new place to live...


Cheerz
John KB6SCO
Carson City, NV

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From nick at navy-radio.com  Sat Oct  4 14:12:48 2025
From: nick at navy-radio.com (Nick England)
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2025 14:12:48 -0400
Subject: [GreenKeys] WW2 IBM radioteletype network?
In-Reply-To: <CAB55hNcpjWuV2RTJsbbr2meDx-3UvOnEyL3zfzJn4b1rC1NprA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB55hNcpjWuV2RTJsbbr2meDx-3UvOnEyL3zfzJn4b1rC1NprA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB55hNfsC-k0e_eftaRqa45KerH61GjnVthTPiqJj10=8kQEHg@mail.gmail.com>

> IBM?
>
> I've acquired an Air Force manual describing Army, Navy, and Commercial
> Communications Systems. In the Army history it talks about an initial WW2
> network using Morse via the Boehme system (Wheatstone tape keyers and inked
> tape reception) - and then 100wpm IBM radioteletype.....Whazzat??
> ------------
> The Boehme System of transmission and reception was
> inaugurated. This system had already been in use
> in corps area nets and overseas stations as early
> as 1937. This allowed the use of perforated tapes
> for transmission of messages at rates from 75 to
> 150 words per minute.However, a radio operator
> was needed to transcribe the inked dots and dashes
> at the receiving end. Such circuits were operational
> from Washington to domestic and overseas headquarters
> stations during 1941.
> b. Radio Printer Circuits. - Since transcription
> was necessary at the receiving end, the
> system was still operating too slowly. The next step
> was the establishment of International Business
> Machine (IBM) radio printer circuits. These circuits,
> operating at 100 words a minute, offered
> printed-page reception from special typewriters,
> and eliminated manual transcription. Circuits were
> established from Washington to Algiers, Casablanca,
> Asmara, Hawaii, and Puerto Rico. This
> system had many speed-reducing characteristics resulting
> from the difference in tape width between
> the ordinary teletype and the IBM machines. Therefore,
> time was consumed in relaying from landline
> to radio network, and vice versa.
> -------------------------
>
> Nick England K4NYW
> www.navy-radio.com
>
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From Duncanancy at earthlink.net  Sat Oct  4 14:43:12 2025
From: Duncanancy at earthlink.net (Duncanancy)
Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2025 14:43:12 -0400
Subject: [GreenKeys] WW2 IBM radioteletype network?
In-Reply-To: <CAB55hNfsC-k0e_eftaRqa45KerH61GjnVthTPiqJj10=8kQEHg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.14.1759603409.2988.greenkeys@mailman.qth.net>

For the war effort, IBM modified som of their electric typewriters into teletypewriters,but they were not compatible with 5bit units.I'll dig up sme pictures laterHave fun,?DuncanK2OEQ?Sent from my Kleinschmidt TT-4/TG, the US Army's first portable digital communications device, 1950-1980
-------- Original message --------From: Nick England via GreenKeys <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net> Date: 10/4/25  14:13  (GMT-05:00) To: Greenkeys <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net> Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] WW2 IBM radioteletype network? IBM?I've acquired an Air Force manual describing Army, Navy, and Commercial Communications Systems. In the Army history it talks about an initial WW2 network using Morse via the Boehme system (Wheatstone tape keyers and inked tape reception) - and then 100wpm IBM radioteletype.....Whazzat??------------The Boehme System of transmission and reception wasinaugurated. This system had already been in usein corps area nets and overseas stations as earlyas 1937. This allowed the use of perforated tapesfor transmission of messages at rates from 75 to150 words per minute.However, a radio operatorwas needed to transcribe the inked dots and dashesat the receiving end. Such circuits were operationalfrom Washington to domestic and overseas headquartersstations during 1941. b. Radio Printer Circuits. - Since transcriptionwas necessary at the receiving end, thesystem was still operating too slowly. The next stepwas the establishment of International BusinessMachine (IBM) radio printer circuits. These circuits,operating at 100 words a minute, offeredprinted-page reception from special typewriters,and eliminated manual transcription. Circuits wereestablished from Washington to Algiers, Casablanca,Asmara, Hawaii, and Puerto Rico. Thissystem had many speed-reducing characteristics resultingfrom the difference in tape width betweenthe ordinary teletype and the IBM machines. Therefore,time was consumed in relaying from landlineto radio network, and vice versa.-------------------------Nick England K4NYWwww.navy-radio.com

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From nick at navy-radio.com  Sat Oct  4 15:06:12 2025
From: nick at navy-radio.com (Nick England)
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2025 15:06:12 -0400
Subject: [GreenKeys] 1960 Army, Navy, and Commercial Communications Systems
Message-ID: <CAB55hNdnTMZj4sEs6aDZhyZMPh_UBKOdZWNV4M+Cw5Wdnj81sQ@mail.gmail.com>

 1960 Army, Navy, and Commercial Communications Systems
(including AT&T, WU, cable companies, etc.)
USAF manual AFM 100-33
Some interesting history and overview, including maps
https://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/afm100-33-comm-systems.pdf

Nick England K4NYW
Chapel Hill NC
www.navy-radio.com
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From duncanancy at earthlink.net  Sat Oct  4 16:17:31 2025
From: duncanancy at earthlink.net (Duncan Brown)
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2025 16:17:31 -0400
Subject: [GreenKeys] WW2 IBM radioteletype network?
In-Reply-To: <202510041443.1V57dWfKu4c12Om0@mx-a-prod5>
References: <202510041443.1V57dWfKu4c12Om0@mx-a-prod5>
Message-ID: <d1beef3a-55a7-418c-8c20-9998dda1b728@earthlink.net>

In the late 1930s, IBM produced the ?Radiotype?, a IBM electric 
typewriter that could be used for radioteletype communications.? IBM 
supplied many units to the military during WWII.? IBM literature makes 
it sound like this was the only RTTY system in use during WWII, but of 
course, there were thousands of M15 in use, also.

The IBM system had a number of drawbacks.? It was too big and heavy for 
field use and used a six-level code incompatible with standard 
teletypewriter equipment. But the military apparently put up with it 
since the need for communications was so great during the war. IBM had 
leased the units to the government and took them back after the war.? 
IBM sold the design to Globe Wireless in late 1945, partly to avoid 
being in competition with its good customer AT&T, but Globe apparently 
did nothing with it.? The units may have all been destroyed, since there 
have not been any reports of them showing up in surplus channels.





(note Morse keys - for backup?)


The "RadioType" could also interface with the SIGABA encryption 
machine.? See attached text for a description and how sensitive the 
machine was to vibrations & movement.

Have fun,

Duncan
K2OEQ




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p12


The IBM ?Radiotype? equipment which worked with a SIGABA was not installed in the WDCC until several months after I was assigned there. In fact I was the officer at Arlington Hall given the task of familiarizing myself with it and then carrying it over and installing it in the WDCC.

This equipment plugged into the tandem outlet at the back of the SIGABA so that a punched tape of cryptograms was produced for carrying over to the Signal Center to work the transmitter or with incoming cryptograms plaintexts were typed directly on a sheet of paper by an Electromatic typewriter.

It seems to me now that it was a Saturday afternoon when I carried all the equipment from Arlington Hall to the WDCC. I hooked it up and plugged it in. But lo and behold it looked as if all the typebars on the typewriter were trying to type at the same time. I turned off the power and the bars returned to their resting position. But as soon as I flipped the switch on, all the bars were jammed together again. I couldn't figure out what was causing the trouble. Here was I, a first-lieutenant, who was supposed to be an expert on this apparatus and I was stumped. Finally I went over to the Signal Center and asked the master-sergeant in charge, the tall, somewhat slender but broad-shouldered and slightly stoop-shouldered, partially bald Sergeant Ferguson if he could help me. He explained the trouble readily and showed me how to cure it. Each key had a separate solenoid beneath it, to operate the key remotely from the SIGABA. Each solenoid had an iron rod that moved in a vertical tube. The sergeant explained that in moving the typewriter on the roads of Arlington most of these rods had moved enough by jarring to trip their corresponding typebar. So all we had to do was to hold all the operated typebars back, out of the way, and then release them one at a time to strike the paper. Each bar in operating restored itself to its proper resting position, and when all the operated bars had had their turn, the typewriter remained at rest, even with the power turned on, until the SIGABA sent it a signal. The solenoids were like the nerve endings from the brain in the retina. The solenoids could be operated electrically or by jarring; the nerve endings by light through the pupils or by pressure on the eyes.

From 1oldlens1 at ix.netcom.com  Sat Oct  4 17:10:14 2025
From: 1oldlens1 at ix.netcom.com (1oldlens1)
Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2025 14:10:14 -0700
Subject: [GreenKeys] WW2 IBM radioteletype network?
In-Reply-To: <CAB55hNfsC-k0e_eftaRqa45KerH61GjnVthTPiqJj10=8kQEHg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.15.1759612230.2988.greenkeys@mailman.qth.net>

FWIW part of my wasted youth was spent at a factory which made precision resistors.? We had an automatic ohm meter made from a Cubic DVM and a modified IBM electromatic typewriter.? Maybe it was a model-B but I think an Electromatic. I have no memory of how it was driven.?Sent from my GalaxyRichard Knoppow?Los AngelesWB6KBL
-------- Original message --------From: Nick England via GreenKeys <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net> Date: 10/4/25  11:13 AM  (GMT-08:00) To: Greenkeys <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net> Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] WW2 IBM radioteletype network? IBM?I've acquired an Air Force manual describing Army, Navy, and Commercial Communications Systems. In the Army history it talks about an initial WW2 network using Morse via the Boehme system (Wheatstone tape keyers and inked tape reception) - and then 100wpm IBM radioteletype.....Whazzat??------------The Boehme System of transmission and reception wasinaugurated. This system had already been in usein corps area nets and overseas stations as earlyas 1937. This allowed the use of perforated tapesfor transmission of messages at rates from 75 to150 words per minute.However, a radio operatorwas needed to transcribe the inked dots and dashesat the receiving end. Such circuits were operationalfrom Washington to domestic and overseas headquartersstations during 1941. b. Radio Printer Circuits. - Since transcriptionwas necessary at the receiving end, thesystem was still operating too slowly. The next stepwas the establishment of International BusinessMachine (IBM) radio printer circuits. These circuits,operating at 100 words a minute, offeredprinted-page reception from special typewriters,and eliminated manual transcription. Circuits wereestablished from Washington to Algiers, Casablanca,Asmara, Hawaii, and Puerto Rico. Thissystem had many speed-reducing characteristics resultingfrom the difference in tape width betweenthe ordinary teletype and the IBM machines. Therefore,time was consumed in relaying from landlineto radio network, and vice versa.-------------------------Nick England K4NYWwww.navy-radio.com

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From navy.radio at gmail.com  Sat Oct  4 14:11:43 2025
From: navy.radio at gmail.com (Nick England)
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2025 14:11:43 -0400
Subject: [GreenKeys] WW2 IBM radioteletype network?
Message-ID: <CAB55hNcpjWuV2RTJsbbr2meDx-3UvOnEyL3zfzJn4b1rC1NprA@mail.gmail.com>

IBM?

I've acquired an Air Force manual describing Army, Navy, and Commercial
Communications Systems. In the Army history it talks about an initial WW2
network using Morse via the Boehme system (Wheatstone tape keyers and inked
tape reception) - and then 100wpm IBM radioteletype.....Whazzat??
------------
The Boehme System of transmission and reception was
inaugurated. This system had already been in use
in corps area nets and overseas stations as early
as 1937. This allowed the use of perforated tapes
for transmission of messages at rates from 75 to
150 words per minute.However, a radio operator
was needed to transcribe the inked dots and dashes
at the receiving end. Such circuits were operational
from Washington to domestic and overseas headquarters
stations during 1941.
b. Radio Printer Circuits. - Since transcription
was necessary at the receiving end, the
system was still operating too slowly. The next step
was the establishment of International Business
Machine (IBM) radio printer circuits. These circuits,
operating at 100 words a minute, offered
printed-page reception from special typewriters,
and eliminated manual transcription. Circuits were
established from Washington to Algiers, Casablanca,
Asmara, Hawaii, and Puerto Rico. This
system had many speed-reducing characteristics resulting
from the difference in tape width between
the ordinary teletype and the IBM machines. Therefore,
time was consumed in relaying from landline
to radio network, and vice versa.
-------------------------

Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com
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From hwhall at compuserve.com  Sun Oct  5 00:05:16 2025
From: hwhall at compuserve.com (hwhall@aol.com)
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2025 04:05:16 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [GreenKeys] WW2 IBM radioteletype network?
In-Reply-To: <CAB55hNcpjWuV2RTJsbbr2meDx-3UvOnEyL3zfzJn4b1rC1NprA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB55hNcpjWuV2RTJsbbr2meDx-3UvOnEyL3zfzJn4b1rC1NprA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1591403025.208125.1759637116354@mail.yahoo.com>

Was that a question concerning IBM's existence in the 40s??Computing-Tabulating-Recording Company (CTR) was renamed "International Business Machines" in?1924. I've been restoring impulse clocks from 1944-45 that were made by "International Business Machines Corporation". Their name is so intertwined with digital computers that it seems odd to think they predated WWII.

Wayne
WB4OGM

On Saturday, October 4, 2025 at 09:31:10 PM MDT, Nick England <navy.radio at gmail.com> wrote: 

IBM?

I've acquired an Air Force manual describing Army, Navy, and Commercial Communications Systems. In the Army history it talks about an initial WW2 network using Morse via the Boehme system (Wheatstone tape keyers and inked tape reception) - and then 100wpm IBM radioteletype.....Whazzat??
------------
The Boehme System of transmission and reception was
inaugurated. This system had already been in use
in corps area nets and overseas stations as early
as 1937. This allowed the use of perforated tapes
for transmission of messages at rates from 75 to
150 words per minute.However, a radio operator
was needed to transcribe the inked dots and dashes
at the receiving end. Such circuits were operational
from Washington to domestic and overseas headquarters
stations during 1941. 
b. Radio Printer Circuits. - Since transcription
was necessary at the receiving end, the
system was still operating too slowly. The next step
was the establishment of International Business
Machine (IBM) radio printer circuits. These circuits,
operating at 100 words a minute, offered
printed-page reception from special typewriters,
and eliminated manual transcription. Circuits were
established from Washington to Algiers, Casablanca,
Asmara, Hawaii, and Puerto Rico. This
system had many speed-reducing characteristics resulting
from the difference in tape width between
the ordinary teletype and the IBM machines. Therefore,
time was consumed in relaying from landline
to radio network, and vice versa.
-------------------------

Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com

From paul0926 at comcast.net  Sun Oct  5 04:18:04 2025
From: paul0926 at comcast.net (Paul Heller)
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2025 10:18:04 +0200
Subject: [GreenKeys] 1960 Army, Navy,
	and Commercial Communications Systems
In-Reply-To: <CAB55hNdnTMZj4sEs6aDZhyZMPh_UBKOdZWNV4M+Cw5Wdnj81sQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB55hNdnTMZj4sEs6aDZhyZMPh_UBKOdZWNV4M+Cw5Wdnj81sQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8AFE93D1-1B5B-4491-A2A3-C75929863082@comcast.net>

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From macbax1 at gmail.com  Sun Oct  5 05:03:28 2025
From: macbax1 at gmail.com (Joe Clanin)
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2025 04:03:28 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] 1960 Army, Navy,
	and Commercial Communications Systems
In-Reply-To: <8AFE93D1-1B5B-4491-A2A3-C75929863082@comcast.net>
References: <CAB55hNdnTMZj4sEs6aDZhyZMPh_UBKOdZWNV4M+Cw5Wdnj81sQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<8AFE93D1-1B5B-4491-A2A3-C75929863082@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CAK1UwOYc2K=tT2Mv9kvNT9AthXc4z7CddHOwCtcQzAWSpbmCbw@mail.gmail.com>

Quite a few maps!

-Joe

On Sun, Oct 5, 2025 at 3:19?AM Paul Heller via GreenKeys <
greenkeys at mailman.qth.net> wrote:

> Thanks Nick. Very interesting indeed.
> Paul
>
> On Oct 4, 2025, at 9:07?PM, Nick England via GreenKeys <
> greenkeys at mailman.qth.net> wrote:
>
> ?
> 1960 Army, Navy, and Commercial Communications Systems
> (including AT&T, WU, cable companies, etc.)
> USAF manual AFM 100-33
> Some interesting history and overview, including maps
> https://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/afm100-33-comm-systems.pdf
>
> Nick England K4NYW
> Chapel Hill NC
> www.navy-radio.com
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>
> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>
> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>
> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to paul0926 at comcast.net
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to macbax1 at gmail.com
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From nagle at animats.com  Sun Oct  5 15:10:40 2025
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2025 12:10:40 -0700
Subject: [GreenKeys] WW2 IBM radioteletype network?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.9.1759680005.14577.greenkeys@mailman.qth.net>
References: <mailman.9.1759680005.14577.greenkeys@mailman.qth.net>
Message-ID: <c759233b-8182-49f0-819a-15e767a4d5de@animats.com>

> Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2025 04:05:16 +0000 (UTC)
> From:"hwhall at aol.com" <hwhall at compuserve.com>

> Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] WW2 IBM radioteletype network?
> Message-ID:<1591403025.208125.1759637116354 at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> 
> Was that a question concerning IBM's existence in the 40s??Computing-Tabulating-Recording Company (CTR) was renamed "International Business Machines" in?1924. I've been restoring impulse clocks from 1944-45 that were made by "International Business Machines Corporation". Their name is so intertwined with digital computers that it seems odd to think they predated WWII.

IBM predates WWI.

The clocks were an early product, which was eventually spun off as 
"Simplex". The Simplex clock business is
still around, after far too many mergers and sales, as

https://simplextimerecorder.com

Those classic clocks were controlled by tones over the power line. There 
are some filters and thyatrons inside each clock.

				John Nagle


From hwhall at compuserve.com  Sun Oct  5 15:52:17 2025
From: hwhall at compuserve.com (hwhall@aol.com)
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2025 19:52:17 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [GreenKeys] WW2 IBM radioteletype network?
In-Reply-To: <c759233b-8182-49f0-819a-15e767a4d5de@animats.com>
References: <mailman.9.1759680005.14577.greenkeys@mailman.qth.net>
	<c759233b-8182-49f0-819a-15e767a4d5de@animats.com>
Message-ID: <1750084232.296237.1759693937756@mail.yahoo.com>


> IBM predates WWI.
> 
> The clocks were an early product, which was eventually spun off as 
> "Simplex". The Simplex clock business is
> still around, after far too many mergers and sales, as
> 
> https://simplextimerecorder.com
> 
> Those classic clocks were controlled by tones over the power line. There 
> are some filters and thyatrons inside each clock.

The clocks I'm working on predate the simplex concept. These don't connect via the power lines. They run off pulsed 24v DC provided via three wires from a master clock. So, they required dedicated wiring in a building/installation. I have to build little driver boards for them, once we have them working again.

Here's an identical one that's been offered for sale for a long time:
https://www.surplussales.com/items/99231/ibm-24-hour-military-clock/

Wayne
WB4OGM

From jdoe10449 at gmail.com  Wed Oct  8 11:48:28 2025
From: jdoe10449 at gmail.com (John Doe)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2025 11:48:28 -0400
Subject: [GreenKeys] New to Greenkeys / M28 ASR rebuild progress
Message-ID: <CAOWTeQTdfx0qjcziv6yHXe9OkXsCbcZt8PLXPsGy=EN4CLBxJQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

I'm about halfway through the rebuild of my M28 ASR and I was reminded that
Greenkeys exists.  I just wanted to introduce myself and post some photos
of the rebuild that I hope you all will enjoy.

About 3 years ago, I was lucky enough to purchase 3 teletypes through the
classifieds; a model 28 ASR, and two Telex model 32 ASRs with the rotary
dial on the right.  The 32's are still in storage so there's not much to
say about them today.

As for my particular M28, I didn't get much provenance, and what little I
was told, I've unfortunately forgotten.  It was a sorry sight seeing the
pictures of it in a barn with the top cover smashed in, trim pieces missing
and rusting, but I inquired any way to see if I could get it for the "parts
machine" price.  Long story short, I paid the small sum of $100 CAD
including delivery.  Well worth it for a complete non-working machine in my
opinion.  I can't remember the owners name but if you're here, thanks again!

I never looked past the dents, dirt and droppings at the time because it
didn't make sense to restore - so into storage it went.  Now, due to sheer
boredom on my part, it's finally getting the attention it deserves.

My machine seems like a hodge-podge of parts.  I can't say that with
accuracy since I'm new to Teletype part numbers and nomenclature but to
summarize, the power supply is a LESU-7 that was converted to a LESU-13,
the TD is a model 28H and the punch, typing unit and keyboard are all 28E.
The punch is the chadless printing type without selector magnets.  Gearset
is for 75 baud - no optional extras on the typing unit - stunt box has
contacts for the bell only - keyboard doesn't match the type box so I have
no idea where my figures are.

So far, I've completely disassembled, cleaned and re-lubed the keyboard,
typing unit, motor unit, power supply and lower portion of the cabinet -
right down to each nut, bolt and washer.  I have to say I've handled
thousands of pieces - I stopped keeping track somewhere around 3800.  I
have attached photos to the email in no particular order - no idea if they
will make it thru.  The total size is 10MB.

YouTube Short of it running here:
https://youtube.com/shorts/j2sgEEb3bMY?feature=share

Huge thanks to Nick K4NYW for preserving and tabulating the heaps of
manuals and data for these machines as well as the AN/FRR-59A receiver I
also own.  Big thanks to everyone else who shared info on lubricants,
adjustments, tips, etc as well!

Thanks for your interest,

Nicholas Gromak
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From harold at w6iwi.org  Wed Oct  8 23:40:35 2025
From: harold at w6iwi.org (Harold Hallikainen)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2025 20:40:35 -0700
Subject: [GreenKeys] Another Project - Transmitter Sequencer
Message-ID: <64b6839b5ed4a4ce4c32eded013f30e6.squirrel@hallikainen.org>

Here's another project I'm working on. It's chief purpose is to make sure
the RF bypass relay in a power amplifier is not hot switched. But, it also
adds Keyboard Operated Send to terminal units that do not have that
feature (like the Flesher TU-170A and TU-300). It senses keyboard
operation by detecting the high voltage across the printer during keyboard
operation and ignores the high voltage pulses generated during receive by
the selector magnet flyback voltage.

The project notes are at https://w6iwi.org/TxSequencer/ . I have a few
board sets that are available free to a good home.

Harold
https://w6iwi.org




-- 
Not sent from an iPhone.

From john at tubetestingpros.com  Thu Oct  9 18:59:54 2025
From: john at tubetestingpros.com (John Lawson)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2025 22:59:54 +0000
Subject: [GreenKeys] OT to Nick E.
Message-ID: <CH3PR19MB7929BD9782BF721943F8DFC7D8EEA@CH3PR19MB7929.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>


Nick England check yer email re: books....

Thanks

Cheerz
John
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From teletypeparts at comcast.net  Fri Oct 10 15:08:07 2025
From: teletypeparts at comcast.net (WAYNE)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2025 15:08:07 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [GreenKeys] Model 15 teletype moving find
Message-ID: <1661058220.114287.1760123287783@connect.xfinity.com>

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From ilrr00 at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 11 15:14:14 2025
From: ilrr00 at yahoo.com (Larry Simoneau)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2025 15:14:14 -0400
Subject: [GreenKeys] Hal ST-8000 part needed
In-Reply-To: <CH3PR19MB7929BD9782BF721943F8DFC7D8EEA@CH3PR19MB7929.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CH3PR19MB7929BD9782BF721943F8DFC7D8EEA@CH3PR19MB7929.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <B6BE8BFB-0B57-493F-B3F8-2D7AEE508E36@yahoo.com>

Looking for a rotary switch for the Hal ST-8000.  According to the parts list all the rotary switches on the unit are the same, with different stops according to where they are used.   The particular switch I am looking for is the one that controls the VAR-RX-TX-MEMORY function, three positions.   The existing switch has the control shaft sheared off.   If someone has a front panel board with the switches available that would work, too.   I have emailed Grayhill with the original part number (55DP36-01-AJN), which is no longer cataloged, to see if they have a suitable replacement.  

Thank you,
Larry W1SIM


From harold at w6iwi.org  Sat Oct 11 17:44:03 2025
From: harold at w6iwi.org (Harold Hallikainen)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2025 14:44:03 -0700
Subject: [GreenKeys] Teletype Sighting
Message-ID: <d2231f2a057c2cb101e9056d6b40ee05.squirrel@hallikainen.org>

A local movie theater has a Hollywood Classic series every Saturday. Today
was All The President's Men. There are several scenes showing wire service
machines printing, including a long series at the end, just before the
credits. The machines APPEAR to be model 28 or similar due to the use of
the type box. When I worked in radio in the 1970s, the wire services used
model 15 for radio and model 20 (6 bit Teletypesetter code) for newspaper.
I saw radio stations move to the Extel dot matrix printer. Did wire
services use the 28?

Harold
https://w6iwi.org




-- 
Not sent from an iPhone.

From douglas-w-jones at uiowa.edu  Sat Oct 11 21:08:49 2025
From: douglas-w-jones at uiowa.edu (Jones, Douglas W)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2025 01:08:49 +0000
Subject: [GreenKeys] Got Model 33 working from PDP-8
In-Reply-To: <d2231f2a057c2cb101e9056d6b40ee05.squirrel@hallikainen.org>
References: <d2231f2a057c2cb101e9056d6b40ee05.squirrel@hallikainen.org>
Message-ID: <BN6PR04MB09179C03B7AE9259D4F8A82EA8EDA@BN6PR04MB0917.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>

<div class="elementToProof">Thursday afternoon, a student and I finally got the U of Iowa's PDP-8 (s/n 85) to send output to our Teletype Model 33.&nbsp; It's taken about a decade of work with students to get this far, including a near ground-up rebuild of the Teletype, reforming the PDP-8 power supply capacitors, tuning the memory (incompletely, at this point), and replacing a large number of silicon switching diodes (plus a few transistors) in the PDP-8.&nbsp; We have yet to get the TTY keyboard input data path to work, but I'm betting we are only days away from that.&nbsp; Here's the program that we used, successfully:</div><div class="elementToProof" style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br></div><div class="elementToProof" style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">06000 7200 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; CLA &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; / AC = 0</div><div class="elementToProof" style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">06001 6046 A, &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;TLS &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; / main loop top, send AC to TTY</div><div class="elementToProof" style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">06002 6041 B, &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;TSF &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; /&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;polling loop top, skip if TTY done</div><div class="elementToProof" style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">06003 5202 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; JMP &nbsp; &nbsp; B &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; /&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;polling loop bottom</div><div class="elementToProof" style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">06004 7001 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; IAC &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; /&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;advance to next character</div><div class="elementToProof" style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">06005 5201 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; JMP &nbsp; &nbsp; A &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; / main loop bottom.</div><div class="elementToProof"><br></div><div class="elementToProof">Not very exciting, just repeats sending all 256 8-bit values to the TTY over and over (and since the TTY ignores the top bit, each run of 256 values is 2 runs of the 128 ASCII codes, including CR, LF and BEL in each run, so we get lots of lines of output.&nbsp; Since the Model 33 folds upper and lower case, each line has 2 repeats of the upper-case alphabet, but piles up lots of characters on the right edge of the page because the lines are over-long.&nbsp; Still, a great step in our hardware restoration effort.</div><div class="elementToProof"><br></div><div class="elementToProof">The machine was delivered to the U of Iowa in November or more likely December of 1965, so we have enough working to do some nice demonstrations for the machine's birthday.</div><div class="elementToProof"><br></div><div class="elementToProof">Work remaining?&nbsp; Lots:</div><div class="elementToProof">-- TTY input</div><div class="elementToProof">-- Tally High-speed paper-tape reader input</div><div class="elementToProof">-- BRPE punch output</div><div class="elementToProof">-- Point-plot oscilloscope display output</div><div class="elementToProof">-- Analog-to-digital multiplexer and converter input</div><div class="elementToProof"><br></div><div class="elementToProof">If we can get that much working, we'll be able to build some joysticks (using 1965 technology, of course) and run some really nice games from that era.</div><div class="elementToProof"><br></div><div class="elementToProof">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Doug Jones</div>

From mooreericnyc at gmail.com  Sat Oct 11 21:19:35 2025
From: mooreericnyc at gmail.com (Eric Moore)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2025 20:19:35 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Got Model 33 working from PDP-8
In-Reply-To: <BN6PR04MB09179C03B7AE9259D4F8A82EA8EDA@BN6PR04MB0917.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
References: <d2231f2a057c2cb101e9056d6b40ee05.squirrel@hallikainen.org>
	<BN6PR04MB09179C03B7AE9259D4F8A82EA8EDA@BN6PR04MB0917.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAE1er55pWA7-DehjT_kuWZjv=a58XaLWWBG0rC5xapFHi-Mtig@mail.gmail.com>

Wonderful and congrats!

FYI, your message was a bit garbled.

-Eric

On Sat, Oct 11, 2025, 8:09?PM Jones, Douglas W via GreenKeys <
greenkeys at mailman.qth.net> wrote:

> <div class="elementToProof">Thursday afternoon, a student and I finally
> got the U of Iowa's PDP-8 (s/n 85) to send output to our Teletype Model
> 33.&nbsp; It's taken about a decade of work with students to get this far,
> including a near ground-up rebuild of the Teletype, reforming the PDP-8
> power supply capacitors, tuning the memory (incompletely, at this point),
> and replacing a large number of silicon switching diodes (plus a few
> transistors) in the PDP-8.&nbsp; We have yet to get the TTY keyboard input
> data path to work, but I'm betting we are only days away from that.&nbsp;
> Here's the program that we used, successfully:</div><div
> class="elementToProof" style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont,
> Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;
> color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br></div><div class="elementToProof"
> style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService,
> Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0,
> 0);">06000 7200
>  &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; CLA &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
> / AC = 0</div><div class="elementToProof" style="font-family: Aptos,
> Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;
> font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">06001 6046 A, &nbsp; &nbsp;
> &nbsp;TLS &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; / main loop top, send
> AC to TTY</div><div class="elementToProof" style="font-family: Aptos,
> Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;
> font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">06002 6041 B, &nbsp; &nbsp;
> &nbsp;TSF &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; /&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
> &nbsp; &nbsp;polling loop top, skip if TTY done</div><div
> class="elementToProof" style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont,
> Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;
> color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">06003 5202 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; JMP &nbsp;
> &nbsp; B &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; /&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;polling
> loop
>  bottom</div><div class="elementToProof" style="font-family: Aptos,
> Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;
> font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">06004 7001 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
> &nbsp; IAC &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; /&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
> &nbsp; &nbsp;advance to next character</div><div class="elementToProof"
> style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService,
> Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0,
> 0);">06005 5201 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; JMP &nbsp; &nbsp; A &nbsp;
> &nbsp; &nbsp; / main loop bottom.</div><div
> class="elementToProof"><br></div><div class="elementToProof">Not very
> exciting, just repeats sending all 256 8-bit values to the TTY over and
> over (and since the TTY ignores the top bit, each run of 256 values is 2
> runs of the 128 ASCII codes, including CR, LF and BEL in each run, so we
> get lots of lines of output.&nbsp; Since the Model 33 folds upper and lower
> case, each line ha
>  s 2 repeats of the upper-case alphabet, but piles up lots of characters
> on the right edge of the page because the lines are over-long.&nbsp; Still,
> a great step in our hardware restoration effort.</div><div
> class="elementToProof"><br></div><div class="elementToProof">The machine
> was delivered to the U of Iowa in November or more likely December of 1965,
> so we have enough working to do some nice demonstrations for the machine's
> birthday.</div><div class="elementToProof"><br></div><div
> class="elementToProof">Work remaining?&nbsp; Lots:</div><div
> class="elementToProof">-- TTY input</div><div class="elementToProof">--
> Tally High-speed paper-tape reader input</div><div
> class="elementToProof">-- BRPE punch output</div><div
> class="elementToProof">-- Point-plot oscilloscope display output</div><div
> class="elementToProof">-- Analog-to-digital multiplexer and converter
> input</div><div class="elementToProof"><br></div><div
> class="elementToProof">If we can get that much working, we'll b
>  e able to build some joysticks (using 1965 technology, of course) and run
> some really nice games from that era.</div><div
> class="elementToProof"><br></div><div class="elementToProof">&nbsp; &nbsp;
> &nbsp; Doug Jones</div>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to mooreericnyc at gmail.com
>
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From harold at w6iwi.org  Sat Oct 11 21:46:13 2025
From: harold at w6iwi.org (Harold Hallikainen)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2025 18:46:13 -0700
Subject: [GreenKeys] Got Model 33 working from PDP-8
In-Reply-To: <CAE1er55pWA7-DehjT_kuWZjv=a58XaLWWBG0rC5xapFHi-Mtig@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d2231f2a057c2cb101e9056d6b40ee05.squirrel@hallikainen.org>
	<BN6PR04MB09179C03B7AE9259D4F8A82EA8EDA@BN6PR04MB0917.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAE1er55pWA7-DehjT_kuWZjv=a58XaLWWBG0rC5xapFHi-Mtig@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dd98f0fca6641179ce631978b8e4c1cd.squirrel@hallikainen.org>

I agree! Congratulations! My first teaching job was assembly language
programming on the PDP-8. We did it all with punched tape. We keyed a
small loader into core using the front panel switches. This then loaded
another loader from high speed punched tape. We then used that loader to
load either an editor or an assembler. Editing was done on the Teletype
33. When done, we'd punch the source file to tape and then load the
assembler into core. The source tape was then run through the assembler
twice (two pass assembler!) causing an object tape to be punched. We'd
then read that into core and debug using the front panel toggle switches
and lights. Fun stuff! I have the book we used "Introduction to
Programming" for the Digital PDP-8 seriesm fifth edition from 1975 in
front of me.

It's interesting (to me) to look at the architecture changes between the
PDP-8 and the PDP-11. First off, the 8 stuffs the return address of a
subroutine as a goto in the first address of the subroutine. The return is
a branch back to the first address which then goes back to the calling
code (I don't remember if the first location actually held a goto or if it
just held the address of the return with the last instruction being an
indirect jump). While this works, it disallows recursion. The 11 uses a
stack pointer, which I think is an amazing invention. The return address
and function parameters go on the stack. Local automatic variables go on
the stack. On return, all that is discarded. VERY CLEVER!

Also, I believe the 8 had special I/O instructions. In the 11, they
realized that a input or output instruction is really the same as a read
or write instruction. So, they introduced memory mapped I/O. This
simplified the instruction set (getting rid of special I/O instructions)
and allowed all memory instructions to be used on I/O devices.

I also thought the instruction set of the 11 was very clever. A load with
autoincrment using the program counter read literal data in memory right
after the instruction. The same load with autoincrement with the stack
pointer did a pull from the stack. Their instruction structure of
instruction:SourceRegister:SourceMode:DestinationRegister:DestinationMode
resulted in a very rich and generalized instruction set.

It's interesting to see the various architecture concepts being introduced
over time.

Anyway, have fun with the PDP-8!

Harold
https://w6iwi.org


On Sat, October 11, 2025 6:19 pm, Eric Moore wrote:
> Wonderful and congrats!
>
>
> FYI, your message was a bit garbled.
>
>
> -Eric
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 11, 2025, 8:09???PM Jones, Douglas W via GreenKeys <
> greenkeys at mailman.qth.net> wrote:
>
>> <div class="elementToProof">Thursday afternoon, a student and I finally
>>  got the U of Iowa's PDP-8 (s/n 85) to send output to our Teletype
>> Model
>> 33.&nbsp; It's taken about a decade of work with students to get this
>> far, including a near ground-up rebuild of the Teletype, reforming the
>> PDP-8
>> power supply capacitors, tuning the memory (incompletely, at this
>> point), and replacing a large number of silicon switching diodes (plus a
>> few transistors) in the PDP-8.&nbsp; We have yet to get the TTY keyboard
>> input data path to work, but I'm betting we are only days away from
>> that.&nbsp; Here's the program that we used, successfully:</div><div
>> class="elementToProof" style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont,
>> Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;
>> color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br></div><div class="elementToProof"
>> style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService,
>> Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0,
>> 0);">06000 7200
>> &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; CLA &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
>> &nbsp;
>> / AC = 0</div><div class="elementToProof" style="font-family: Aptos,
>> Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;
>>  font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">06001 6046 A, &nbsp; &nbsp;
>> &nbsp;TLS &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; / main loop top,
>> send AC to TTY</div><div class="elementToProof" style="font-family:
>> Aptos,
>> Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;
>>  font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">06002 6041 B, &nbsp; &nbsp;
>> &nbsp;TSF &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; /&nbsp; &nbsp;
>> &nbsp;
>> &nbsp; &nbsp;polling loop top, skip if TTY done</div><div
>> class="elementToProof" style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont,
>> Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;
>> color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">06003 5202 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; JMP &nbsp;
>> &nbsp; B &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; /&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;polling
>>  loop bottom</div><div class="elementToProof" style="font-family: Aptos,
>>  Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica,
>> sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">06004 7001 &nbsp;
>> &nbsp; &nbsp;
>> &nbsp; IAC &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; /&nbsp; &nbsp;
>> &nbsp;
>> &nbsp; &nbsp;advance to next character</div><div class="elementToProof"
>> style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService,
>> Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0,
>> 0);">06005 5201 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; JMP &nbsp; &nbsp; A &nbsp;
>> &nbsp; &nbsp; / main loop bottom.</div><div
>> class="elementToProof"><br></div><div class="elementToProof">Not very
>> exciting, just repeats sending all 256 8-bit values to the TTY over and
>>  over (and since the TTY ignores the top bit, each run of 256 values is
>> 2
>> runs of the 128 ASCII codes, including CR, LF and BEL in each run, so we
>>  get lots of lines of output.&nbsp; Since the Model 33 folds upper and
>> lower case, each line ha s 2 repeats of the upper-case alphabet, but
>> piles up lots of characters on the right edge of the page because the
>> lines are over-long.&nbsp; Still, a great step in our hardware
>> restoration effort.</div><div class="elementToProof"><br></div><div
>> class="elementToProof">The machine was delivered to the U of Iowa in
>> November or more likely December of 1965,
>> so we have enough working to do some nice demonstrations for the
>> machine's birthday.</div><div class="elementToProof"><br></div><div
>> class="elementToProof">Work remaining?&nbsp; Lots:</div><div
>> class="elementToProof">-- TTY input</div><div class="elementToProof">--
>>  Tally High-speed paper-tape reader input</div><div
>> class="elementToProof">-- BRPE punch output</div><div
>> class="elementToProof">-- Point-plot oscilloscope display
>> output</div><div class="elementToProof">-- Analog-to-digital multiplexer
>> and converter input</div><div class="elementToProof"><br></div><div
>> class="elementToProof">If we can get that much working, we'll b e able
>> to build some joysticks (using 1965 technology, of course) and run some
>> really nice games from that era.</div><div
>> class="elementToProof"><br></div><div class="elementToProof">&nbsp;
>> &nbsp;
>> &nbsp; Doug Jones</div>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> GreenKeys mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>
>>
>>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>>>
>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>
>>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>>>>>
>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>
>>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>>>>>
>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>
>>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>>>
>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to mooreericnyc at gmail.com
>>
>>
>


-- 
https://w6iwi.org

From 1oldlens1 at ix.netcom.com  Sun Oct 12 03:03:14 2025
From: 1oldlens1 at ix.netcom.com (1oldlens1)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2025 00:03:14 -0700
Subject: [GreenKeys] Got Model 33 working from PDP-8
In-Reply-To: <dd98f0fca6641179ce631978b8e4c1cd.squirrel@hallikainen.org>
Message-ID: <mailman.16.1760252612.2988.greenkeys@mailman.qth.net>

This is exactly what I learned for the first Hewlett Packard mainframe machines ksorry model number gone from memory). I first keyed in the "basic binary loader" using the toggle switches.? That woke up the pinched tape reader then fed in a couple of feet of tape.? Maybe that was the BBL, then the program tape I punched out on the M33.? Long process.? This was all -hp- basic.? I had to learn all this stuff on my own, never got comfortable although I earned to write elementary programs.? I think the combinations keyed in with the toggle switch were called the basic binary bootstrap.? For years I had that memorized and carried the BBL tape folded up in my wallet.Sent from my GalaxyRichard Knoppow?Los AngelesWB6KBL
-------- Original message --------From: Harold Hallikainen via GreenKeys <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net> Date: 10/11/25  6:47 PM  (GMT-08:00) To: Eric Moore <mooreericnyc at gmail.com> Cc: Green Keys <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net> Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Got Model 33 working from PDP-8 I agree! Congratulations! My first teaching job was assembly languageprogramming on the PDP-8. We did it all with punched tape. We keyed asmall loader into core using the front panel switches. This then loadedanother loader from high speed punched tape. We then used that loader toload either an editor or an assembler. Editing was done on the Teletype33. When done, we'd punch the source file to tape and then load theassembler into core. The source tape was then run through the assemblertwice (two pass assembler!) causing an object tape to be punched. We'dthen read that into core and debug using the front panel toggle switchesand lights. Fun stuff! I have the book we used "Introduction toProgramming" for the Digital PDP-8 seriesm fifth edition from 1975 infront of me.It's interesting (to me) to look at the architecture changes between thePDP-8 and the PDP-11. First off, the 8 stuffs the return address of asubroutine as a goto in the first address of the subroutine. The return isa branch back to the first address which then goes back to the callingcode (I don't remember if the first location actually held a goto or if itjust held the address of the return with the last instruction being anindirect jump). While this works, it disallows recursion. The 11 uses astack pointer, which I think is an amazing invention. The return addressand function parameters go on the stack. Local automatic variables go onthe stack. On return, all that is discarded. VERY CLEVER!Also, I believe the 8 had special I/O instructions. In the 11, theyrealized that a input or output instruction is really the same as a reador write instruction. So, they introduced memory mapped I/O. Thissimplified the instruction set (getting rid of special I/O instructions)and allowed all memory instructions to be used on I/O devices.I also thought the instruction set of the 11 was very clever. A load withautoincrment using the program counter read literal data in memory rightafter the instruction. The same load with autoincrement with the stackpointer did a pull from the stack. Their instruction structure ofinstruction:SourceRegister:SourceMode:DestinationRegister:DestinationModeresulted in a very rich and generalized instruction set.It's interesting to see the various architecture concepts being introducedover time.Anyway, have fun with the PDP-8!Haroldhttps://w6iwi.orgOn Sat, October 11, 2025 6:19 pm, Eric Moore wrote:> Wonderful and congrats!>>> FYI, your message was a bit garbled.>>> -Eric>>> On Sat, Oct 11, 2025, 8:09???PM Jones, Douglas W via GreenKeys <> greenkeys at mailman.qth.net> wrote:>>> <div class="elementToProof">Thursday afternoon, a student and I finally>>? got the U of Iowa's PDP-8 (s/n 85) to send output to our Teletype>> Model>> 33.&nbsp; It's taken about a decade of work with students to get this>> far, including a near ground-up rebuild of the Teletype, reforming the>> PDP-8>> power supply capacitors, tuning the memory (incompletely, at this>> point), and replacing a large number of silicon switching diodes (plus a>> few transistors) in the PDP-8.&nbsp; We have yet to get the TTY keyboard>> input data path to work, but I'm betting we are only days away from>> that.&nbsp; Here's the program that we used, successfully:</div><div>> class="elementToProof" style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont,>> Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;>> color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br></div><div class="elementToProof">> style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService,>> Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0,>> 0);">06000 7200>> &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; CLA &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;>> &nbsp;>> / AC = 0</div><div class="elementToProof" style="font-family: Aptos,>> Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;>>? font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">06001 6046 A, &nbsp; &nbsp;>> &nbsp;TLS &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; / main loop top,>> send AC to TTY</div><div class="elementToProof" style="font-family:>> Aptos,>> Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;>>? font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">06002 6041 B, &nbsp; &nbsp;>> &nbsp;TSF &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; /&nbsp; &nbsp;>> &nbsp;>> &nbsp; &nbsp;polling loop top, skip if TTY done</div><div>> class="elementToProof" style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont,>> Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;>> color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">06003 5202 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; JMP &nbsp;>> &nbsp; B &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; /&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;polling>>? loop bottom</div><div class="elementToProof" style="font-family: Aptos,>>? Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica,>> sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">06004 7001 &nbsp;>> &nbsp; &nbsp;>> &nbsp; IAC &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; /&nbsp; &nbsp;>> &nbsp;>> &nbsp; &nbsp;advance to next character</div><div class="elementToProof">> style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService,>> Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0,>> 0);">06005 5201 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; JMP &nbsp; &nbsp; A &nbsp;>> &nbsp; &nbsp; / main loop bottom.</div><div>> class="elementToProof"><br></div><div class="elementToProof">Not very>> exciting, just repeats sending all 256 8-bit values to the TTY over and>>? over (and since the TTY ignores the top bit, each run of 256 values is>> 2>> runs of the 128 ASCII codes, including CR, LF and BEL in each run, so we>>? get lots of lines of output.&nbsp; Since the Model 33 folds upper and>> lower case, each line ha s 2 repeats of the upper-case alphabet, but>> piles up lots of characters on the right edge of the page because the>> lines are over-long.&nbsp; Still, a great step in our hardware>> restoration effort.</div><div class="elementToProof"><br></div><div>> class="elementToProof">The machine was delivered to the U of Iowa in>> November or more likely December of 1965,>> so we have enough working to do some nice demonstrations for the>> machine's birthday.</div><div class="elementToProof"><br></div><div>> class="elementToProof">Work remaining?&nbsp; Lots:</div><div>> class="elementToProof">-- TTY input</div><div class="elementToProof">-->>? Tally High-speed paper-tape reader input</div><div>> class="elementToProof">-- BRPE punch output</div><div>> class="elementToProof">-- Point-plot oscilloscope display>> output</div><div class="elementToProof">-- Analog-to-digital multiplexer>> and converter input</div><div class="elementToProof"><br></div><div>> class="elementToProof">If we can get that much working, we'll b e able>> to build some joysticks (using 1965 technology, of course) and run some>> really nice games from that era.</div><div>> class="elementToProof"><br></div><div class="elementToProof">&nbsp;>> &nbsp;>> &nbsp; Doug Jones</div>>> ______________________________________________________________>> GreenKeys mailing list>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net>>>>>>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:>>>>>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch>>>>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:>>>>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/>>>>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:>>>>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html>>>>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:>>>>>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html>>>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html>> Message delivered to mooreericnyc at gmail.com>>>>>-- https://w6iwi.org______________________________________________________________GreenKeys mailing listHome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeysHelp: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htmPost: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.htmlThis list hosted by: http://www.qsl.netPlease help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.htmlMessage delivered to 1oldlens1 at ix.netcom.com
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From jdoe10449 at gmail.com  Sun Oct 12 13:21:48 2025
From: jdoe10449 at gmail.com (John Doe)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2025 13:21:48 -0400
Subject: [GreenKeys] Got Model 33 working from PDP-8
Message-ID: <CAOWTeQQJ+jzuyPyjPnPWGWDZCM-gS25W8F=u_8hhwzAwTC9c9A@mail.gmail.com>

For those who wanted to read the original message un-garbled, I've re-typed
it below - hopefully without error:

Thursday afternoon, a student and I finally got the U of Iowa's
PDP-8 (s/n 85) to send output to our Teletype Model 33. It's
taken about a decade of work with students to get this far,
including a near ground-up rebuild of the Teletype, reforming
the PDP-8 power supply capacitors, tuning the memory
(incompletely, at this point), and replacing a large number of
silicon switching diodes (plus a few transistors) in the PDP-8.
We have yet to get the TTY keyboard input data path to work,
but I'm betting we are only days away from that. Here's the
program that we used, successfully:

06001 6046 A, TLS  main loop top, send AC to TTY
06002 6041 B, TSF  polling loop top, skip if TTY done
06003 5202 JMP B   polling loop bottom
06004 7001 IAC      advance to next character
06005 5201 JMP A   main loop bottom

Not very exciting, just repeats sending all 256 8-bit values to
the TTY over and over (and since the TTY ignores the top bit,
each run of 256 values is 2 runs of the 128 ASCII codes,
including CR, LF and BEL in each run, so we get lots of lines
of output. Since the Model 33 folds upper and lower case, each
line has 2 repeats of the upper-case alphabet, but piles up
lots of characters on the right edge of the page because the
lines are over-long. Still, a great step in our hardware
restoration effort.

The machine was delivered to the U of Iowa in November or more
likely December of 1965, so we have enough working to do some
nice demonstrations for the machine's birthday.

Work remaining? Lots:
-- TTY input
-- Tally High-speed paper-tape reader input
-- BRPE punch output
-- Point-plot oscilloscope display output
-- Analog-to-digital multiplexer and converter input

If we can get that much working, we'll be able to build some
joysticks (using 1965 technology, of course) and run some
really nice games from that era.

Doug Jones
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From jdoe10449 at gmail.com  Sun Oct 12 14:51:16 2025
From: jdoe10449 at gmail.com (John Doe)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2025 14:51:16 -0400
Subject: [GreenKeys] Questions about the M28 Stunt Box & Code Bars
Message-ID: <CAOWTeQTAA9Kb_k+6QoVn7sNUU8O+1cKzReUjDvYzD6sk9y5RFA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

Restoring my M28, I noticed that the SUPPRESSION code bar is permanently
hooked in the marking state with its actuator link disabled and the ZERO
code bar doesn't have a detent - so is sprung to the marking state but is
otherwise free to move. I can see rub marks on the SUPPRESSION actuator
links so I know it was operating at some point in the past. I'd like to
figure out why it was disabled to restore functionality. Photos attached.

The manuals and stunt box brochure explain how they work, but not many
practical examples. I'd like to know more about the SUPP. and ZERO code
bars before I go on the hunt for shift forks, pawls, function bars, etc.

Any help appreciated.

Thanks,

Nicholas Gromak
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From nick at navy-radio.com  Sun Oct 12 16:12:32 2025
From: nick at navy-radio.com (Nick England)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2025 16:12:32 -0400
Subject: [GreenKeys] Questions about the M28 Stunt Box & Code Bars
In-Reply-To: <CAOWTeQTAA9Kb_k+6QoVn7sNUU8O+1cKzReUjDvYzD6sk9y5RFA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOWTeQTAA9Kb_k+6QoVn7sNUU8O+1cKzReUjDvYzD6sk9y5RFA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB55hNfm4heWmnZowX+mb0bG-w2v5wNFUhX6qvBZzqJSub21eg@mail.gmail.com>

I think pages 16-17 of the brochure give a good example of the primary use
of suppression and zero code bars, which is in selective calling (sel-cal).
The ?hook? is there so the printer is always active as you?d want it to be
for local or dedicated use.

There?s also some material in the RTTY Journal stunt box articles.

But I have no experience from back in the heyday of ham RTTY. Hopefully
some of the guys here who were involved in the autostart nets, playing LF
tricks on friends, etc. will speak up.

Nick England K4NYW
Chapel Hill NC
www.navy-radio.com


On Sun, Oct 12, 2025 at 2:51?PM John Doe <jdoe10449 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> Restoring my M28, I noticed that the SUPPRESSION code bar is permanently
> hooked in the marking state with its actuator link disabled and the ZERO
> code bar doesn't have a detent - so is sprung to the marking state but is
> otherwise free to move. I can see rub marks on the SUPPRESSION actuator
> links so I know it was operating at some point in the past. I'd like to
> figure out why it was disabled to restore functionality. Photos attached.
>
> The manuals and stunt box brochure explain how they work, but not many
> practical examples. I'd like to know more about the SUPP. and ZERO code
> bars before I go on the hunt for shift forks, pawls, function bars, etc.
>
> Any help appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nicholas Gromak
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to nick at navy-radio.com
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From io at jimcooper.org  Sun Oct 12 16:28:37 2025
From: io at jimcooper.org (Jim Cooper)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2025 16:28:37 -0400
Subject: [GreenKeys] Questions about the M28 Stunt Box & Code Bars
In-Reply-To: <CAB55hNfm4heWmnZowX+mb0bG-w2v5wNFUhX6qvBZzqJSub21eg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOWTeQTAA9Kb_k+6QoVn7sNUU8O+1cKzReUjDvYzD6sk9y5RFA@mail.gmail.com>,
	<CAB55hNfm4heWmnZowX+mb0bG-w2v5wNFUhX6qvBZzqJSub21eg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <68EC0F75.28246.A32058DD@io.jimcooper.org>

On 12 Oct 2025 at 16:12, Nick England via GreenKeys wrote:

>  the primary use of suppression and
> zero code bars, which is in
> selective calling (sel-cal). The
> oehook? is there so the printer is
> always active as youTMd want it to be
> for local or dedicated use. 

I agree ...  you don't want to change the way 
it is now (locked so it does NOT suppress printing). 

If you were on a multi-station circuit and wanted 
to print ONLY the traffic addressed to you (marked 
by a special header code, and detected by code bars 
in the stunt box) then maybe you would want to 
activate the suppression feature. 

w2jc





From raleigh_ranger at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 12 19:14:09 2025
From: raleigh_ranger at yahoo.com (steve bennett)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2025 23:14:09 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [GreenKeys] Teletype in the Train museum
References: <839682670.2187471.1760310852182.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <839682670.2187471.1760310852182@mail.yahoo.com>

A local Ham radio guy told me about a teletype machine in the Hinton WV railroad museum.The place is usually not open on Sundays when I pass that way but today it was so I stopped to check it out.I'm guessing this is a 33?
-Steve
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From kd9do.jim at gmail.com  Sun Oct 12 19:39:04 2025
From: kd9do.jim at gmail.com (Jim)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2025 19:39:04 -0400
Subject: [GreenKeys] Teletype in the Train museum
In-Reply-To: <839682670.2187471.1760310852182@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <839682670.2187471.1760310852182.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<839682670.2187471.1760310852182@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ6Y6gyZoX2BVUaxdtP+-Wz_08tFaHQECZOQ0QBWhkr+LW6syw@mail.gmail.com>

Looks like a 28.

On Sun, Oct 12, 2025, 19:28 steve bennett via GreenKeys <
greenkeys at mailman.qth.net> wrote:

> A local Ham radio guy told me about a teletype machine in the Hinton WV
> railroad museum.
> The place is usually not open on Sundays when I pass that way but today it
> was so I stopped to check it out.
> I'm guessing this is a 33?
>
> -Steve
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to kd9do.jim at gmail.com
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From dalevk1dsh at gmail.com  Sun Oct 12 19:54:18 2025
From: dalevk1dsh at gmail.com (Dale Hughes)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2025 10:54:18 +1100
Subject: [GreenKeys] M28 printer troubleshooting - type box positioning
Message-ID: <CADkWQjAbqzroSffuUUQ2Hrd6otYYWUkjcdCe7HjKjr8Yiz=OXg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Folk,

My name is Dale, I live in Canberra, Australia, and I'm new to this group.
I've recently acquired a Teletype Model 28 receive only machine that was
apparently used at a NASA tracking station near here. It hasn't been used
for probably 40 years, but it's in good condition and basically works after
cleaning and lubrication.

I'm running it on a 75 baud 60 mA current loop and at 110 VAC 60 Hz through
a sine-wave inverter because power here is 50 Hz. It prints RYRY...
more-or-less perfectly with only the very occasional X instead of a Y.
However does have a problem with the type box positioning and it
consistently misplaces characters based on the previous character. For
example (char input on left, prints on right):

MMMNMHMspace MMMNMMMspace  (space is the space bar char)   here the H is
printed as an M
VVVCVPVI                VVVCVVVI                       here the P is
printed as a V
BBBDBZBE               BBBDBBBE                     here the Z is printed
as a B
GGGRGLGlf              GGGRGGGlf     (lf is the line feed char) here the L
is printed as a G

Looking at the character placement in the type box, the problem occurs for
all rows and the problem lines up with the two columns
of characters either side of the centre line in the type box which are the
two columns corresponding to bits 4=space & 5=mark:
H             T
Y              Z
P              L
Q             W

The problem seems to be with bit 4 going from mark to space if bit 5 is
mark. There is no problem with bit 4 = space
if bit 5 goes from space to mark. The state of bits 1,2 and 3 don't seem to
matter. The end result of all of this is that the incoming message
is corrupted and the machine is not very usable.

I've checked the code bars on both sides of the machine and they are
correct for all characters, so I think the selector mechanism is working
properly. The problem seems to be in the type box positioning mechanism,
however I'm not familiar with the M28 machine and don't want to just pull
it apart
blindly looking for a problem because I'll never be able to put it all
back-to-together again!

I'm hoping someone in the group can point me in the direction of the likely
problem and how to fix it! I can send a photo of the printout showing the
results of the QUICK BROWN FOX... message if that is helpful.

Many thanks and sorry for the long email.

Regards

Dale VK1DSH
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From nick at navy-radio.com  Sun Oct 12 20:08:43 2025
From: nick at navy-radio.com (Nick England)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2025 20:08:43 -0400
Subject: [GreenKeys] Flesher TU Manuals Page
Message-ID: <CAB55hNfRwiAeLXKVzseJGuWfVYeWgoinLwVf3E1nyY20bzSVVw@mail.gmail.com>

Flesher RTTY TU manuals are now at
  https://www.navy-radio.com/rtty/flesher.htm
I just added the TU-470 manual thanks to Steve KB0WSV

Nick England K4NYW
Chapel Hill NC
www.navy-radio.com
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From jdoe10449 at gmail.com  Sun Oct 12 22:58:51 2025
From: jdoe10449 at gmail.com (John Doe)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2025 22:58:51 -0400
Subject: [GreenKeys] Questions about the M28 Stunt Box & Code Bars
In-Reply-To: <CAB55hNfm4heWmnZowX+mb0bG-w2v5wNFUhX6qvBZzqJSub21eg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOWTeQTAA9Kb_k+6QoVn7sNUU8O+1cKzReUjDvYzD6sk9y5RFA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAB55hNfm4heWmnZowX+mb0bG-w2v5wNFUhX6qvBZzqJSub21eg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOWTeQQXHhRtaWQM8H0anmQFJOUyu4rVunUwLgrkyPb3HCuPOg@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks to Nick England and Jim Cooper for their replies.

I was under the impression that there might have been a third bank of
non-printing characters. In the brochure they say the first area is
"Letters", the second area "Figures" and the third area is "Select-Non
Print". After reading "Modifying the Model 28 Teletype"* and the brochure
again I now know this is not the case.

If I understand correctly, to have full use of the stunt box, don't bother
with function bars that use the Select/Non-Select ZERO tines because to get
into that mode, you'll waste valuable slots setting up the key sequence to
shift into that mode. As Nick and Jim pointed out to me before, that option
is only really used for Selective Calling. It just didn't click until now.

*RTTY Journal Vol.18, Issue 5 thru 7 by Irvin M. Hoff, W6FFC

Thanks again for the help clarifying the code bar scheme.

Nicholas Gromak.

P.S. I lifted the hook away from the SUPPRESSION bar and straightened the
bent linkage and I can see now how the non printing system works. The stunt
box stays working while the whole front of the machine stays still. It's
just like the brochure says: "The printer is always awake, its stunt box
always riding the line, waiting for information to be directed to it.".

My stunt box is equipped with a FIGS-Blank-H sequence that is supposed to
activate a motor-stop relay and a Blank-Blank sequence that is supposed to
mechanically lock the keyboard - according to the RTTY Journal article by
Hoff.  I don't have the motor-stop relay so the previous owner cut the
wires leading to the contact that sits above 29 and the keyboard lock
function bars need to be installed in 36 - mine have been moved up in the
20's so they don't do anything when activated.


On Sun, Oct 12, 2025 at 4:12?PM Nick England <nick at navy-radio.com> wrote:

> I think pages 16-17 of the brochure give a good example of the primary use
> of suppression and zero code bars, which is in selective calling (sel-cal).
> The ?hook? is there so the printer is always active as you?d want it to be
> for local or dedicated use.
>
> There?s also some material in the RTTY Journal stunt box articles.
>
> But I have no experience from back in the heyday of ham RTTY. Hopefully
> some of the guys here who were involved in the autostart nets, playing LF
> tricks on friends, etc. will speak up.
>
> Nick England K4NYW
> Chapel Hill NC
> www.navy-radio.com
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 12, 2025 at 2:51?PM John Doe <jdoe10449 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> Restoring my M28, I noticed that the SUPPRESSION code bar is permanently
>> hooked in the marking state with its actuator link disabled and the ZERO
>> code bar doesn't have a detent - so is sprung to the marking state but is
>> otherwise free to move. I can see rub marks on the SUPPRESSION actuator
>> links so I know it was operating at some point in the past. I'd like to
>> figure out why it was disabled to restore functionality. Photos attached.
>>
>> The manuals and stunt box brochure explain how they work, but not many
>> practical examples. I'd like to know more about the SUPP. and ZERO code
>> bars before I go on the hunt for shift forks, pawls, function bars, etc.
>>
>> Any help appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Nicholas Gromak
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> GreenKeys mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>
>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to nick at navy-radio.com
>
>
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From jdoe10449 at gmail.com  Sun Oct 12 23:06:01 2025
From: jdoe10449 at gmail.com (John Doe)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2025 23:06:01 -0400
Subject: [GreenKeys] Teletype in the Train museum
Message-ID: <CAOWTeQR5dJJRySkGPgdZ46f1wQuK6cu84fTgjfxXLZoaRbR4yw@mail.gmail.com>

...a model 28 KSR if you want to be specific :)

Now that you know where one is, you just need to wait for the museum to go
under and disperse the collection.  You'll have one foot in the door if you
make friends with some of the staff.
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From dd1lm at t-online.de  Mon Oct 13 13:09:33 2025
From: dd1lm at t-online.de (Andreas =?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=FCller?=)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2025 19:09:33 +0200
Subject: [GreenKeys] Teletype in the Train museum
In-Reply-To: <CAOWTeQR5dJJRySkGPgdZ46f1wQuK6cu84fTgjfxXLZoaRbR4yw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOWTeQR5dJJRySkGPgdZ46f1wQuK6cu84fTgjfxXLZoaRbR4yw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2801258.mvXUDI8C0e@linux.fritz.box>

Am Montag, 13. Oktober 2025, 05:06:01 CEST schrieb John Doe:
> ...a model 28 KSR if you want to be specific :)
> 
> Now that you know where one is, you just need to wait for the museum to go
> under and disperse the collection.  You'll have one foot in the door if you
> make friends with some of the staff.
You can tell them about www.i-telex.net




From epvgk at limpoc.com  Tue Oct 14 03:54:34 2025
From: epvgk at limpoc.com (eric)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2025 00:54:34 -0700
Subject: [GreenKeys] M28 printer troubleshooting - type box positioning
In-Reply-To: <CADkWQjAbqzroSffuUUQ2Hrd6otYYWUkjcdCe7HjKjr8Yiz=OXg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADkWQjAbqzroSffuUUQ2Hrd6otYYWUkjcdCe7HjKjr8Yiz=OXg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2bccb5814a3f8a6adcb56363a3bb1b03@limpoc.com>

On 2025-10-12 16:54, Dale Hughes wrote:

> I'm running it on a 75 baud 60 mA current loop and at 110 VAC 60 Hz 
> through a sine-wave inverter because power here is 50 Hz.

If I'm not mistaken, if you're just echoing in a loop you should be fine 
on local 50hz power, you'll just be both sending and receiving at 62.5 
baud rather than 75. It would of course be a problem if trying to copy 
RTTY over the radio, or talking to a fixed 75 baud interface from 
somewhere else.

If you end up using a computer interface of some sort you can probably 
just set it to 62.5 baud and be fine.
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From dalevk1dsh at gmail.com  Tue Oct 14 06:23:55 2025
From: dalevk1dsh at gmail.com (Dale Hughes)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2025 21:23:55 +1100
Subject: [GreenKeys] M28 printer troubleshooting - type box positioning
In-Reply-To: <CAOWTeQR6zGGqBJ37JWKKxhqMkt3oD1dpqVsf=Dr10BJg7tmxWA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOWTeQR6zGGqBJ37JWKKxhqMkt3oD1dpqVsf=Dr10BJg7tmxWA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADkWQjCcfA=Nc+h=gHJLHvfL=G461s43OVvCPmNpBv2E75FXDw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Nicolas,

Many thanks for your thoughtful reply and I have checked those parts of the
machine, all the springs are in place. I have checked the operation of the
selector mechanism a number of times and it seems fine. Sending the various
bits, either as a single bit, or combinations of bits, generates the
correct mark-space positioning of the code bars. I was puzzled for a while
about the common bar, but it became clear that there are in fact two
'common' arrangements. The first one is bits-1 and 2 which is the common
code bar that comes from the selector mechanism and this is used for the
vertical positioning of the type box. There is also another 'common' for
bits-4 and 5 which are part of the horizontal positioning of the type
box. Bit-3
selects which side of the neutral alley is used as you have pointed out.

In the meantime I have found there is a spring missing on the bell crank
that links the code bar for bit-4 to part of the horizontal
shift mechanism. It seems that the missing spring causes the
horizontal shift to miss a column of characters depending upon the
direction of travel which is what I was finding when sending the character
pairs. In that part of the machine there are three small springs which
restore the 'plates' (I'm not sure what else to call them...) for bit-4,
bit-5 and the combined bit-4-5 combinations which determines which column
of characters in the type box is used. Bit-3 selects which side of the
neutral alley is used as you have pointed out. It's a very clever system
for sure. Nick England sent me a link to a useful document (you may have
already seen it):

https://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/tty/jh/ttyman3/TeletypeManuals/model28/Instructional/28_Printer.pdf

and pages 21 and 22 show the relevant functions for the type box
positioning which helped me to locate where the spring is missing. It's a
tiny little spring and I hope I can get some to replace the set of three...
They are Teletype part number 45027 which I found from the assembly
diagrams in one of the Teletype manuals. Of course there may still be other
problems once the springs are replaced and I'll have to deal with that
situation if it arises...

I hope your restoration work is going well! Thanks again for your
suggestions.

Regards

Dale



On Tue, 14 Oct 2025 at 02:07, John Doe <jdoe10449 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Dale, how ya goin'?  Greetings from Canada.
>
> I'm new to the group too and I've been restoring an M28 ASR for the last 6
> months or so. The mechanism is still fresh in my mind and I'd like to take
> a crack at helping you with your machine.
>
> Good work testing and gathering the data to share. I can't claim to be an
> expert but something didn't sit right with me in your message. Your quote
> here:
>
> *"The problem seems to be with bit 4 going from mark to space if bit 5 is mark. There is no problem with bit 4 = space (...) The state of bits 1,2 and 3 don't seem to matter."*
>
>
> It's my understanding that the only difference between H-T, Y-Z, P-L, Q-W,
> is Bit-3. Please see the attached "Dales_Machine_1.PNG" for a map. Both
> columns are fixed by bits 4 & 5 - the left column (HYPQ) if bit 3 is on or
> the right (TZLW) if bit 3 is off - and the rows are selected by the 4
> possible combinations of bits 1 & 2.
>
> If you and the others in the group can agree that Bit-3 is the problem,
> let's start with checking the selector mechanism (I know you checked it
> already). See attached "Dales_Machine_2.PNG". Let's hope it's just a lack
> of lubrication or a missing spring. Repeated information: Check that all
> springs are present on the push levers and intermediate arms and verify
> that movement of the mechanism is snappy and free of sticking.
>
> Amendment: You may need to check the springs on the selecting levers that
> ride the cam.  I failed to highlight them in the attachment because you
> will probably need to remove the typing unit to be able to see them;
> they're underneath.  It's not a difficult job - just 4 screws to remove and
> the typing unit should pull straight up.  Get a sharp 10" long flat head
> screwdriver - preferably hollow ground and press down hard on the selector
> side to prevent the driver from slipping.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Nicholas Gromak
>
>
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From dalevk1dsh at gmail.com  Tue Oct 14 06:28:59 2025
From: dalevk1dsh at gmail.com (Dale Hughes)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2025 21:28:59 +1100
Subject: [GreenKeys] M28 printer troubleshooting - type box positioning
In-Reply-To: <2bccb5814a3f8a6adcb56363a3bb1b03@limpoc.com>
References: <CADkWQjAbqzroSffuUUQ2Hrd6otYYWUkjcdCe7HjKjr8Yiz=OXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<2bccb5814a3f8a6adcb56363a3bb1b03@limpoc.com>
Message-ID: <CADkWQjDE45Mw30nh1c-6bgVj+p37dPH8bmY56ZHt67ReeeekQA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Eric,

Thanks for your suggestion and I did consider just running the motor of the
50 Hz mains supply, but most of the advice seems to be "don't do it"
because the motor will run hot etc. leading to early failure. I had the
inverter so it was no problem to run the machine on 60 Hz but it's not an
elegant or a very efficient solution. The baud rate conversion is no
problem but I'm more concerned about the machine reliability. Once I get
the machine working properly I'll try running it at 50 Hz and see what
happens...

Regards

Dale




On Tue, 14 Oct 2025 at 18:54, eric <epvgk at limpoc.com> wrote:

> On 2025-10-12 16:54, Dale Hughes wrote:
>
> I'm running it on a 75 baud 60 mA current loop and at 110 VAC 60 Hz
> through a sine-wave inverter because power here is 50 Hz.
>
>
>
> If I'm not mistaken, if you're just echoing in a loop you should be fine
> on local 50hz power, you'll just be both sending and receiving at 62.5 baud
> rather than 75. It would of course be a problem if trying to copy RTTY over
> the radio, or talking to a fixed 75 baud interface from somewhere else.
>
> If you end up using a computer interface of some sort you can probably
> just set it to 62.5 baud and be fine.
>
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From nick at navy-radio.com  Tue Oct 14 10:46:58 2025
From: nick at navy-radio.com (Nick England)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2025 10:46:58 -0400
Subject: [GreenKeys] 28ASR wanted - TX/LA
Message-ID: <CAB55hNd2ufujg0FfL4qdqUGJ3mmU0auwxS4-unVyopTDoLTzYw@mail.gmail.com>

Benny Rhoads <brhoads at gt.rr.com> is looking for a 28ASR (or maybe KSR).
He's located in Orange TX right on the TX/LA border and had a 28ASR on RTTY
about 25 years ago. If you can help, please contact him directly.
Benny Rhoads <brhoads at gt.rr.com>

Cheers,
Nick England K4NYW
Chapel Hill NC
www.navy-radio.com
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From jdoe10449 at gmail.com  Tue Oct 14 12:08:47 2025
From: jdoe10449 at gmail.com (John Doe)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2025 12:08:47 -0400
Subject: [GreenKeys] M28 printer troubleshooting - type box positioning
In-Reply-To: <CADkWQjCcfA=Nc+h=gHJLHvfL=G461s43OVvCPmNpBv2E75FXDw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOWTeQR6zGGqBJ37JWKKxhqMkt3oD1dpqVsf=Dr10BJg7tmxWA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkWQjCcfA=Nc+h=gHJLHvfL=G461s43OVvCPmNpBv2E75FXDw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOWTeQR1Gh98ZVEVQd5qQXRYoLUjnfP31ta7bkUzek-vmRdG3g@mail.gmail.com>

Good update!

That missing spring would certainly cause problems.  If you need help
taking the front off the printer to access the spring, let me know.  I've
done it about 7 times and it's not difficult.

Keep up the good work,

Nicholas Gromak.

On Tue, Oct 14, 2025 at 6:24?AM Dale Hughes <dalevk1dsh at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Nicolas,
>
> Many thanks for your thoughtful reply and I have checked those parts of
> the machine, all the springs are in place. I have checked the operation of
> the selector mechanism a number of times and it seems fine. Sending the
> various bits, either as a single bit, or combinations of bits,
> generates the correct mark-space positioning of the code bars. I was
> puzzled for a while about the common bar, but it became clear that there
> are in fact two 'common' arrangements. The first one is bits-1 and 2 which
> is the common code bar that comes from the selector mechanism and this is
> used for the vertical positioning of the type box. There is also another
> 'common' for bits-4 and 5 which are part of the horizontal positioning of
> the type box. Bit-3 selects which side of the neutral alley is used as
> you have pointed out.
>
> In the meantime I have found there is a spring missing on the bell crank
> that links the code bar for bit-4 to part of the horizontal
> shift mechanism. It seems that the missing spring causes the
> horizontal shift to miss a column of characters depending upon the
> direction of travel which is what I was finding when sending the character
> pairs. In that part of the machine there are three small springs which
> restore the 'plates' (I'm not sure what else to call them...) for bit-4,
> bit-5 and the combined bit-4-5 combinations which determines which column
> of characters in the type box is used. Bit-3 selects which side of the
> neutral alley is used as you have pointed out. It's a very clever system
> for sure. Nick England sent me a link to a useful document (you may have
> already seen it):
>
>
> https://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/tty/jh/ttyman3/TeletypeManuals/model28/Instructional/28_Printer.pdf
>
> and pages 21 and 22 show the relevant functions for the type box
> positioning which helped me to locate where the spring is missing. It's a
> tiny little spring and I hope I can get some to replace the set of three...
> They are Teletype part number 45027 which I found from the assembly
> diagrams in one of the Teletype manuals. Of course there may still be other
> problems once the springs are replaced and I'll have to deal with that
> situation if it arises...
>
> I hope your restoration work is going well! Thanks again for your
> suggestions.
>
> Regards
>
> Dale
>
>
>
> On Tue, 14 Oct 2025 at 02:07, John Doe <jdoe10449 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Dale, how ya goin'?  Greetings from Canada.
>>
>> I'm new to the group too and I've been restoring an M28 ASR for the last
>> 6 months or so. The mechanism is still fresh in my mind and I'd like to
>> take a crack at helping you with your machine.
>>
>> Good work testing and gathering the data to share. I can't claim to be an
>> expert but something didn't sit right with me in your message. Your quote
>> here:
>>
>> *"The problem seems to be with bit 4 going from mark to space if bit 5 is mark. There is no problem with bit 4 = space (...) The state of bits 1,2 and 3 don't seem to matter."*
>>
>>
>> It's my understanding that the only difference between H-T, Y-Z, P-L,
>> Q-W, is Bit-3. Please see the attached "Dales_Machine_1.PNG" for a map.
>> Both columns are fixed by bits 4 & 5 - the left column (HYPQ) if bit 3 is
>> on or the right (TZLW) if bit 3 is off - and the rows are selected by the 4
>> possible combinations of bits 1 & 2.
>>
>> If you and the others in the group can agree that Bit-3 is the problem,
>> let's start with checking the selector mechanism (I know you checked it
>> already). See attached "Dales_Machine_2.PNG". Let's hope it's just a lack
>> of lubrication or a missing spring. Repeated information: Check that all
>> springs are present on the push levers and intermediate arms and verify
>> that movement of the mechanism is snappy and free of sticking.
>>
>> Amendment: You may need to check the springs on the selecting levers that
>> ride the cam.  I failed to highlight them in the attachment because you
>> will probably need to remove the typing unit to be able to see them;
>> they're underneath.  It's not a difficult job - just 4 screws to remove and
>> the typing unit should pull straight up.  Get a sharp 10" long flat head
>> screwdriver - preferably hollow ground and press down hard on the selector
>> side to prevent the driver from slipping.
>>
>> Hope this helps.
>>
>> Nicholas Gromak
>>
>>
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From jdoe10449 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 15 19:16:44 2025
From: jdoe10449 at gmail.com (John Doe)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2025 19:16:44 -0400
Subject: [GreenKeys] Mounting Holes in the M28 Cabinet
Message-ID: <CAOWTeQTgr34OXvNWKCdiwesNqW2zaG2-7MWGZ9h0o6F9MXokRQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

I'm in the process of adding sound deadener to the M28 cabinet that I'm
restoring and I was wondering what accessory or mod goes above the "SIGNAL"
/ "POWER" stamps in the attached photos.  Cabinet is a LAAC 236 GA.

I'd like to keep the holes accessible to my future self or future owner if
they wish to install the part that goes there.

Thanks in advance,

Nicholas Gromak
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From nick at navy-radio.com  Wed Oct 15 20:03:05 2025
From: nick at navy-radio.com (Nick England)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2025 20:03:05 -0400
Subject: [GreenKeys] Mounting Holes in the M28 Cabinet
In-Reply-To: <CAOWTeQTgr34OXvNWKCdiwesNqW2zaG2-7MWGZ9h0o6F9MXokRQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOWTeQTgr34OXvNWKCdiwesNqW2zaG2-7MWGZ9h0o6F9MXokRQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB55hNeZjQez_FedPw8-=bsgqQQHvsY94AvrQgSHHiBc1rLzcQ@mail.gmail.com>

RFI filters. Sealed metal cans with capacitors inside which have probably
gotten leaky so they are often discarded.

See pdf page 159
Figures 5-47 and 5-48

https://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/tty/jh/ttyman7/TeletypeManuals/model28/1169B-Chg8.pdf

Nick England K4NYW
Chapel Hill NC
www.navy-radio.com


On Wed, Oct 15, 2025 at 7:16?PM John Doe <jdoe10449 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I'm in the process of adding sound deadener to the M28 cabinet that I'm
> restoring and I was wondering what accessory or mod goes above the "SIGNAL"
> / "POWER" stamps in the attached photos.  Cabinet is a LAAC 236 GA.
>
> I'd like to keep the holes accessible to my future self or future owner if
> they wish to install the part that goes there.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Nicholas Gromak
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to nick at navy-radio.com
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From robert.h.goff at gmail.com  Fri Oct 17 20:43:22 2025
From: robert.h.goff at gmail.com (Robert Goff)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2025 17:43:22 -0700
Subject: [GreenKeys] GRC-46 RTTY demodulator on auction site
Message-ID: <CAF6Vb54rCfM_g0sy7_6+Ri-F2eTzM+4yHYh8Z=4sF6TtL8ny8Q@mail.gmail.com>

Item #115697223506
Built for 850 cycle shift-IF input. Not identified very well in the
listing-as you'll see.

You can check out the original set in this training film:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVYF72Xn9qc
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From deramp5113 at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 17 22:57:04 2025
From: deramp5113 at yahoo.com (Mike Douglas)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2025 02:57:04 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [GreenKeys] 60ma Current Loop Interface Update
References: <162851938.4265794.1760756224235.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <162851938.4265794.1760756224235@mail.yahoo.com>

Hello,

For any of you that are using my 60ma Current Loop Interface (see https://deramp.com/model15_interface.html), I've recently added the ability to select different WPM rates (60, 67, 75 and 100 WPM) from within the configuration menu instead of requiring a different firmware load in the PIC for each rate. Find the update here: 

https://deramp.com/model15_interface.html

Mike D

From deramp5113 at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 17 23:05:46 2025
From: deramp5113 at yahoo.com (Mike Douglas)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2025 03:05:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [GreenKeys] 60ma Current Loop Interface Update
In-Reply-To: <162851938.4265794.1760756224235@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <162851938.4265794.1760756224235.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<162851938.4265794.1760756224235@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <61092177.4286224.1760756746950@mail.yahoo.com>

 Sorry - find it here: https://deramp.com/downloads/teletype/Model%2015/loop%20interface%20board/

Mike D
     On Friday, October 17, 2025 at 09:00:28 PM CST, Mike Douglas via GreenKeys <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net> wrote:  
 
 Hello,

For any of you that are using my 60ma Current Loop Interface (see https://deramp.com/model15_interface.html), I've recently added the ability to select different WPM rates (60, 67, 75 and 100 WPM) from within the configuration menu instead of requiring a different firmware load in the PIC for each rate. Find the update here: 

https://deramp.com/model15_interface.html

Mike D
______________________________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net

>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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From m38inmaine at gmail.com  Sat Oct 18 13:33:34 2025
From: m38inmaine at gmail.com (MilComm Guy)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2025 13:33:34 -0400
Subject: [GreenKeys] Saturday 10/18 RATT NET
Message-ID: <CAGzJkdzY+BYX6rL5XHDM-wDV_6bQYwr=2e=yVkisE8Jp6wNo1w@mail.gmail.com>

Great band conditions today and a great net, thanks Nick.  For those
working on a shelter here is some eye candy, the GRC-142 had fun today, get
to it !
[image: DSCN0657.JPG]

73
Mark
K1HF
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From jvendely at cfl.rr.com  Sat Oct 18 16:55:27 2025
From: jvendely at cfl.rr.com (John Vendely)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2025 16:55:27 -0400
Subject: [GreenKeys] Saturday 10/18 RATT NET
In-Reply-To: <CAGzJkdzY+BYX6rL5XHDM-wDV_6bQYwr=2e=yVkisE8Jp6wNo1w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGzJkdzY+BYX6rL5XHDM-wDV_6bQYwr=2e=yVkisE8Jp6wNo1w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c0f90a64-9cd5-4046-891e-ae92789b0ca7@cfl.rr.com>

Very inspiring to hear a GRC-142 on the net...

73,

John K9WT

On 10/18/2025 1:33 PM, MilComm Guy wrote:
> Great band conditions today and a great net, thanks Nick.? For those 
> working on a shelter here is some eye candy, the GRC-142 had fun 
> today, get to it !
> DSCN0657.JPG
>
> 73
> Mark
> K1HF
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home:http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help:http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post:mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> This list hosted by:http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list:http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered tojvendely at cfl.rr.com
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From peter at lencom.com.au  Sat Oct 18 20:17:36 2025
From: peter at lencom.com.au (Peter Leonard)
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2025 00:17:36 +0000
Subject: [GreenKeys] Model 15 74359 draw strap.
Message-ID: <ME3P282MB424144715480431D3620C7B8FFF4A@ME3P282MB4241.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Hi,

I have a Model 15 with a broken "Draw Strap part 74359"

Any suggestions for a replacement or suitable fabric for repair.

Kind regards,

73

Pete VK5XP





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From raleigh_ranger at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 18 20:29:03 2025
From: raleigh_ranger at yahoo.com (steve bennett)
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2025 00:29:03 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [GreenKeys] Model 15 74359 draw strap.
In-Reply-To: <ME3P282MB424144715480431D3620C7B8FFF4A@ME3P282MB4241.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <ME3P282MB424144715480431D3620C7B8FFF4A@ME3P282MB4241.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <1593103708.4450194.1760833743945@mail.yahoo.com>

 Get some parachute cord and remove the core. Just use the sheath and iron it flat.For the ends you can use crimp on electrical terminal ends. The ones the are "O" shaped on the ends.-Steve
    On Saturday, October 18, 2025 at 08:18:51 PM EDT, Peter Leonard <peter at lencom.com.au> wrote:  
 
  Hi,
I have a Model 15 with a broken "Draw Strap part 74359"?
Any suggestions for a replacement or suitable fabric for repair.
Kind regards,
73
Pete VK5XP

?
| 
 |


______________________________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net

>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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From io at jimcooper.org  Sat Oct 18 21:23:18 2025
From: io at jimcooper.org (Jim Cooper)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2025 21:23:18 -0400
Subject: [GreenKeys] Model 15 74359 draw strap.
In-Reply-To: <ME3P282MB424144715480431D3620C7B8FFF4A@ME3P282MB4241.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <ME3P282MB424144715480431D3620C7B8FFF4A@ME3P282MB4241.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <68F43D86.14279.1637EA91@io.jimcooper.org>

In the past, I have used a length of #14 stranded wire 
with solder lugs on both ends, and it worked !

On 19 Oct 2025 at 0:17, Peter Leonard wrote:

> Any suggestions for a replacement or suitable fabric for repair.



From hanyou at xsmail.com  Sat Oct 18 21:54:04 2025
From: hanyou at xsmail.com (E.)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2025 20:54:04 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Model 15 74359 draw strap.
In-Reply-To: <68F43D86.14279.1637EA91@io.jimcooper.org>
References: <ME3P282MB424144715480431D3620C7B8FFF4A@ME3P282MB4241.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<68F43D86.14279.1637EA91@io.jimcooper.org>
Message-ID: <60333960-5A3E-4B0F-BCE6-406FE72E9485@xsmail.com>


Have also heard that shoelaces work as well? have never tried myself though.


> On Oct 18, 2025, at 8:23?PM, Jim Cooper <io at jimcooper.org> wrote:
> 
> In the past, I have used a length of #14 stranded wire 
> with solder lugs on both ends, and it worked !

From w1an.dxusa at gmail.com  Sat Oct 18 22:58:05 2025
From: w1an.dxusa at gmail.com (John Spigel)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2025 22:58:05 -0400
Subject: [GreenKeys] Model 15 74359 draw strap.
In-Reply-To: <ME3P282MB424144715480431D3620C7B8FFF4A@ME3P282MB4241.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <ME3P282MB424144715480431D3620C7B8FFF4A@ME3P282MB4241.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <0c89ff79-cd67-4c30-b57b-3a8ca1348a61@gmail.com>

Check the photo here at bottom of page:

https://w1an.com/photos/equipment

Use 1/4" braided dacron line with core slipped out so it will lay flat. 
Use solder iron to seal the ends at the stak-ons.(For #10 wire).  Do not 
exceed 9.5" eye to eye. That keeps the wrap to near 100%. Maybe 9.3" 
would be safer.

Work great. I have done on several machines.
73, John W1AN

On 18-Oct-25 20:17, Peter Leonard wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have a Model 15 with a broken "Draw Strap part 74359"
> 
> Any suggestions for a replacement or suitable fabric for repair.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> 73
> 
> Pete VK5XP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> 
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to w1an.dxusa at gmail.com


From ad7i at ad7i.net  Sat Oct 18 22:58:53 2025
From: ad7i at ad7i.net (Paul Newland, ad7i)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2025 22:58:53 -0400
Subject: [GreenKeys] Model 15 74359 draw strap.
In-Reply-To: <60333960-5A3E-4B0F-BCE6-406FE72E9485@xsmail.com>
References: <ME3P282MB424144715480431D3620C7B8FFF4A@ME3P282MB4241.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<68F43D86.14279.1637EA91@io.jimcooper.org>
	<60333960-5A3E-4B0F-BCE6-406FE72E9485@xsmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHrdqDZ6t_W9zr2EydTtR-kh9cWyGHdF_AApO1rp65HB2WZA3w@mail.gmail.com>

I used genuine Bell System lacing cord on mine.  made a loop (with a knot)
of about the right length and called it good.  Haven't had to change it in
15 years.  I'd be happy to send you a section of lacing cord.

Paul, ad7i


On Sat, Oct 18, 2025 at 9:55?PM E. <hanyou at xsmail.com> wrote:

>
> Have also heard that shoelaces work as well? have never tried myself
> though.
>
>
> > On Oct 18, 2025, at 8:23?PM, Jim Cooper <io at jimcooper.org> wrote:
> >
> > In the past, I have used a length of #14 stranded wire
> > with solder lugs on both ends, and it worked !
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to ad7i at ad7i.net
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From cdlale63 at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 19 15:42:23 2025
From: cdlale63 at yahoo.com (Cecil Lale)
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2025 19:42:23 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [GreenKeys] Model 15 74359 draw strap
References: <182149898.4575881.1760902943911.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <182149898.4575881.1760902943911@mail.yahoo.com>

On my model 26 I used a standard 1/4 typewriter draw string found on ebay.CecilKF6ZOK
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From tomhenryhunter at gmail.com  Sun Oct 19 23:17:41 2025
From: tomhenryhunter at gmail.com (Tom Hunter)
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2025 23:17:41 -0400
Subject: [GreenKeys] M-7000, etc
Message-ID: <CAJK8691yLxkbCYFE-FQ-a6FRqPomQ6SNJrCJ=Bf78Up46u=+kQ@mail.gmail.com>

Nick,

I am trying to get squelch to work on my M-7000. I tuned on squelch for the
video and the printers. Then I turned on the squelch switch.  I have to run
the level in the low to medium green for it to squelch. The screen squelch
works but the 28 continued to print garble between transmissions last
week.  Yesterday the 28 squelched part of the time but not every time. I
figure I must be doing something wrong, but I don't know what.

I bought six RTTY terminals from eBay. I found the book on the AEA MPA-RC
and have it working.  It has a 32 character display and a loop output. I am
going to take out the IRL-1000 which I don't use since it is high tones and
I will put the AEA in it it's place. The AEA is HIgh tones too but I am
anxious to try it  on CW.

I got two Kantronics "The Interface" I already had the book and schematic
on those,  The are meant to be used with a computer. But their loop outputs
will work without the  computer.

I got a HAL CRI-200 which has an L.E.D. display that actually shows
ellipses.  I can't find the book, but it works and I got the RS-232 output
connected to one of the RCA Jacks. I tested it and it will drive a polar
relay. I am going to mount a relay on an electrical box and use it to key a
powered loop.

I got a HAL CMR-7800 which will only drive a video monitor and has standard
high and low tones. The mark and space lights flicker as they should but
the monitor on shows Os, Ts , Vs and Ms. I desperately need a schematic.
For example on LTRS it shows Ms or Os.  It seems to be losing the first two
to four marks in every character which makes me suspicious of the
demodulator. It only has a parallel ASCII output with a really weird
connector.  I think I may have one of those connectors.
I will try to wire it to a printer and see what it prints.

And I got a HAL Spectra-Tune SPT-2.  I would like to get it working but I
need the book. It is not to be found. The SPT-1 book shows a coaxial power
connector. But the power input on the SPT-2  is on a DB-25M. There is also
a DB-20F and I have no idea what it is for..  So I must find the correct
SPT-2 book.

I ordered some 6-point grounding lugs to ground my equipment. But I still
have to drill the hole to get a big piece of shield brain downstairs.

So that is what is going on here.  I still read the mail, but unless
grounding gets rid of that spur, I won't be transmitting.
There is no ground terminal on my amp so I will add one.  As a matter of
fact, I copied everybody for most of the net yesterday.


Tom   N3CRK
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From nowtel at gmail.com  Mon Oct 20 15:07:07 2025
From: nowtel at gmail.com (NOWTEL)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2025 15:07:07 -0400
Subject: [GreenKeys] Teletype Model 15 : polar relay, pulling magnet,
	holding magnet, loop wiring
Message-ID: <CAN=0+Bo8QrK_k7716uGE3w7LrgCzW60rkoDPmhZfhFbD3hRNHQ@mail.gmail.com>

Since I don't know anything yet, please provide detailed assistance.

For the Teletype Model 15 that I have, how can I find information
about the polar relay, the pulling magnet, and the holding magnet?

Also, regarding the loop wiring, how can I determine if the wires are
connected to the printer and keyboard loops separately?

Thank you in advance for your help.

73,

Youngluck Sheen

From hwhall at compuserve.com  Mon Oct 20 15:26:58 2025
From: hwhall at compuserve.com (hwhall@aol.com)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2025 19:26:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [GreenKeys]
 =?utf-8?q?Teletype_Model_15_=3A_polar_relay=2C_pullin?=
 =?utf-8?q?g_magnet=2C=09holding_magnet=2C_loop_wiring?=
In-Reply-To: <CAN=0+Bo8QrK_k7716uGE3w7LrgCzW60rkoDPmhZfhFbD3hRNHQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN=0+Bo8QrK_k7716uGE3w7LrgCzW60rkoDPmhZfhFbD3hRNHQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <293439980.1263384.1760988418295@mail.yahoo.com>

What info do you need for those parts? If it's internal winding resistance or how they're connected, a schematic diagram will have that. Do you have a manual for the Model 15? They're available online. I like having a hard copy.

Wayne
WB4OGM

On Monday, October 20, 2025 at 01:07:36 PM MDT, NOWTEL <nowtel at gmail.com> wrote: 

Since I don't know anything yet, please provide detailed assistance.

For the Teletype Model 15 that I have, how can I find information
about the polar relay, the pulling magnet, and the holding magnet?

Also, regarding the loop wiring, how can I determine if the wires are
connected to the printer and keyboard loops separately?

Thank you in advance for your help.

73,

Youngluck Sheen
______________________________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net

>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to hwhall at compuserve.com

From til128 at juno.com  Mon Oct 20 15:34:13 2025
From: til128 at juno.com (til128 at juno.com)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2025 19:34:13 GMT
Subject: [GreenKeys] Teletype Model 15 : polar relay, pulling magnet,
	holdi	ng magnet, loop wiring
Message-ID: <20251020.153413.8835.0@webmail04.dca.untd.com>

https://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/tty/wd/m15-wiring-anon-2112.pdf

---------- Original Message ----------
From: NOWTEL <nowtel at gmail.com>
To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: [GreenKeys] Teletype Model 15 : polar relay, pulling magnet, holding magnet, loop wiring
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2025 15:07:07 -0400

Since I don't know anything yet, please provide detailed assistance.

For the Teletype Model 15 that I have, how can I find information
about the polar relay, the pulling magnet, and the holding magnet?

Also, regarding the loop wiring, how can I determine if the wires are
connected to the printer and keyboard loops separately?

Thank you in advance for your help.

73,

Youngluck Sheen
______________________________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net

>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to til128 at juno.com


From harold at w6iwi.org  Mon Oct 20 15:47:38 2025
From: harold at w6iwi.org (Harold Hallikainen)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2025 12:47:38 -0700
Subject: [GreenKeys] Teletype Model 15 : polar relay, pulling magnet,
 holdi	ng magnet, loop wiring
In-Reply-To: <20251020.153413.8835.0@webmail04.dca.untd.com>
References: <20251020.153413.8835.0@webmail04.dca.untd.com>
Message-ID: <d354efd14dac1e4a267ca919b5b727d9.squirrel@hallikainen.org>

I'll comment on pulling vs holding magnets.

With pulling magnets, the selector magnets need to pull the armature to
the pole pieces on a space to mark transition. It takes more magnetic
force to pull the armature in than to hold the armature in place. With
pulling magnets, the coils are wired in series and run with 60 mA loop
current.

With holding magnets, a cam pushes the armature to the pole pieces just
before each bit is to be sampled. Once past that cam, the armature falls
away from the pole pieces if there is no current (space) and stays if
there is current (mark). Since it takes less current to hold the armature
than to pull it, series wired coils can run at 20 mA instead of the 60 mA
required for pulling. The coils can be wired in parallel for operation at
60 mA (30 mA in each coil).

Since the inductance of the parallel coils is substantially less than
series coils, the loop voltage can be lower. I recently heard that holding
magnets were introduced to allow use of a 48 volt loop supply making it
safe for cord switchboards (since this is the same voltage used for Plain
Old Telephone Service).

I still run a high voltage 60 mA loop for everything since all machines
can be wired for a 60 mA loop.

Harold
https://w6iwi.org


On Mon, October 20, 2025 12:34 pm, til128 at juno.com wrote:
> https://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/tty/wd/m15-wiring-anon-2112.pdf
>
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: NOWTEL <nowtel at gmail.com>
> To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
> Subject: [GreenKeys] Teletype Model 15 : polar relay, pulling magnet,
> holding magnet, loop wiring Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2025 15:07:07 -0400
>
>
> Since I don't know anything yet, please provide detailed assistance.
>
>
> For the Teletype Model 15 that I have, how can I find information
> about the polar relay, the pulling magnet, and the holding magnet?
>
> Also, regarding the loop wiring, how can I determine if the wires are
> connected to the printer and keyboard loops separately?
>
> Thank you in advance for your help.
>
>
> 73,
>
>
> Youngluck Sheen
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
>
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>>>
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to til128 at juno.com
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
>
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>>>
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to harold at w6iwi.org
>
>


-- 
Not sent from an iPhone.

From nick at navy-radio.com  Mon Oct 20 16:03:47 2025
From: nick at navy-radio.com (Nick England)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2025 16:03:47 -0400
Subject: [GreenKeys] Periodic Plea - Frederick Baudot/Morse Converter manuals
Message-ID: <CAB55hNc-JCYxY5UfrKmB83S5VPKRq4a3wWFB=-WgRL5zBAWMMQ@mail.gmail.com>

 This is a long shot, but perhaps someone has some old paperwork squirreled
away....

I acquired a batch of interesting vintage Frederick Electronics TTY signal
gear recently, but without manuals - any info or documentation at all would
be GREATLY appreciated.
http://www.navy-radio.com/rtty/frederick-2.htm
The basic functions of each of these is fairly evident, but some of the
connections are mysterious, and troubleshooting will be difficult!

660 Baudot to Morse Code Converter
CV/A-19 Baudot to Morse Converter
671 Morse to Baudot Converter

Nick England K4NYW
Chapel Hill NC
www.navy-radio.com
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From hwhall at compuserve.com  Mon Oct 20 17:40:30 2025
From: hwhall at compuserve.com (hwhall@aol.com)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2025 21:40:30 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [GreenKeys]
 =?utf-8?q?Teletype_Model_15_=3A_polar_relay=2C_pullin?=
 =?utf-8?q?g_magnet=2C_holdi=09ng_magnet=2C_loop_wiring?=
In-Reply-To: <d354efd14dac1e4a267ca919b5b727d9.squirrel@hallikainen.org>
References: <20251020.153413.8835.0@webmail04.dca.untd.com>
	<d354efd14dac1e4a267ca919b5b727d9.squirrel@hallikainen.org>
Message-ID: <575416390.4163053.1760996430150@mail.yahoo.com>

I think the original question was, how to tell the two magnets apart. I presume by visual inspection, since they also wanted to know how to see if they had a polar relay.

I've heard it claimed that pulling magnets were two side-by-side cylindrical coils and the holding ones were two, smaller, side-by-side somewhat rectangular coils.? Also, from the few I've seen personally, the holding coils were wrapped with some kind of clear plastic-like stuff but the pulling ones I've had were more like a fabric-based tape wrapping.

Wayne
WB4OGM


From hwhall at compuserve.com  Mon Oct 20 17:55:12 2025
From: hwhall at compuserve.com (hwhall@aol.com)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2025 21:55:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [GreenKeys]
 =?utf-8?q?Teletype_Model_15_=3A_polar_relay=2C_pullin?=
 =?utf-8?q?g_magnet=2C=09holding_magnet=2C_loop_wiring?=
In-Reply-To: <CAN=0+Bo8QrK_k7716uGE3w7LrgCzW60rkoDPmhZfhFbD3hRNHQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN=0+Bo8QrK_k7716uGE3w7LrgCzW60rkoDPmhZfhFbD3hRNHQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1331042292.4174428.1760997312443@mail.yahoo.com>

Maybe post some pictures of your machine, specifically the selector magnet area & the rear apron of the base. Might be able to answer some of the questions just by looking at what you have there.

Wayne
WB4OGM

On Monday, October 20, 2025 at 01:07:36 PM MDT, NOWTEL <nowtel at gmail.com> wrote: 

Since I don't know anything yet, please provide detailed assistance.

For the Teletype Model 15 that I have, how can I find information
about the polar relay, the pulling magnet, and the holding magnet?

Also, regarding the loop wiring, how can I determine if the wires are
connected to the printer and keyboard loops separately?

Thank you in advance for your help.

73,

Youngluck Sheen
______________________________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net

>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to hwhall at compuserve.com

From paul0926 at comcast.net  Tue Oct 21 04:47:54 2025
From: paul0926 at comcast.net (Paul Heller)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2025 10:47:54 +0200
Subject: [GreenKeys] Teletype Model 15 : polar relay, pulling magnet,
	holding magnet, loop wiring
In-Reply-To: <CAN=0+Bo8QrK_k7716uGE3w7LrgCzW60rkoDPmhZfhFbD3hRNHQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN=0+Bo8QrK_k7716uGE3w7LrgCzW60rkoDPmhZfhFbD3hRNHQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8F484E0B-488C-479A-A22C-3906811C0E7E@comcast.net>

Your first stop should be Nick England?s site at

https://www.navy-radio.com/

There are plenty of manuals, data sheets and diagrams there. 

73,
Paul
W2TTY


> On Oct 20, 2025, at 9:07?PM, NOWTEL <nowtel at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?Since I don't know anything yet, please provide detailed assistance.
> 
> For the Teletype Model 15 that I have, how can I find information
> about the polar relay, the pulling magnet, and the holding magnet?
> 
> Also, regarding the loop wiring, how can I determine if the wires are
> connected to the printer and keyboard loops separately?
> 
> Thank you in advance for your help.
> 
> 73,
> 
> Youngluck Sheen
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> 
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to paul0926 at comcast.net
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From jeffg at junknet.net  Tue Oct 21 13:40:09 2025
From: jeffg at junknet.net (Jeffrey Golas)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2025 13:40:09 -0400
Subject: [GreenKeys] Model  14/15 in Eastern PA (Philly burbs)
Message-ID: <FDF2A0DC-260B-4E16-A4D0-EC6DCA12C39A@junknet.net>

Hey all, as previously mentioned, I have a Model 15 complete in decent shape, but its a tractor feed unit and needs cleaning/love. This one is navy gray including stand. 

Also, I have a "some assembly required" Model 14 that I think Im good to pass along. Its most of the parts/units but needs assembly.

Not sure what to ask- trades/offers/etc.

I also still have a couple surplus 28 KSRs, had some interest but really need my garage now.

Jeff



From scottgs at bellsouth.net  Tue Oct 21 14:01:51 2025
From: scottgs at bellsouth.net (Garret Scott)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2025 18:01:51 +0000
Subject: [GreenKeys] Model  14/15 in Eastern PA (Philly burbs)
In-Reply-To: <FDF2A0DC-260B-4E16-A4D0-EC6DCA12C39A@junknet.net>
References: <FDF2A0DC-260B-4E16-A4D0-EC6DCA12C39A@junknet.net>
Message-ID: <CY5PR11MB63671EC0DDCDB73396438251FBF2A@CY5PR11MB6367.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>

Hi Jeff, I'm interested in the Model 15, on behalf of the USS Tennessee Museum.

We're looking for an appropriate Navy teletype to use as a working display.

Let me know if you're interested and what you might have in mind.

Thanks,
Garret
W8BUG


Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>
________________________________
From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net <greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net> on behalf of Jeffrey Golas <jeffg at junknet.net>
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2025 1:40:09 PM
To: Greenkeys <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: [GreenKeys] Model 14/15 in Eastern PA (Philly burbs)

Hey all, as previously mentioned, I have a Model 15 complete in decent shape, but its a tractor feed unit and needs cleaning/love. This one is navy gray including stand.

Also, I have a "some assembly required" Model 14 that I think Im good to pass along. Its most of the parts/units but needs assembly.

Not sure what to ask- trades/offers/etc.

I also still have a couple surplus 28 KSRs, had some interest but really need my garage now.

Jeff


______________________________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net

>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to scottgs at bellsouth.net
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From kd9do.jim at gmail.com  Wed Oct 22 21:19:53 2025
From: kd9do.jim at gmail.com (Jim)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2025 21:19:53 -0400
Subject: [GreenKeys] Dashpot
Message-ID: <CAJ6Y6gwHU0Qkm322rkMSVvfo9E5efz69FVv6kd_hO5vTSRr=-g@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Greenkeys!

Long time listener, first time caller. A little over a year ago I acquired
a M28 ASR. Since that time I have been cleaning it up, fixing the ESU ?
rectifier assembly, learning how it is wired and testing. There is one item
that has me stumped. The dashpot does not seem to want to work as it should
preventing carrier bounce on return from a long line of text.  This is when
printing multiple long lines at 60 WPM.  I have the service manual and
followed that, removed the dashpot assembly, cleaned and replaced, no luck.
I did not lose the screw, nut, small spring or the tiny little ball.
Reassembled all parts and tried adjusting according to the documentation,
tested, but still no luck. The best I can get it adjusted is so that lines
of text of about 60 characters or less will do just fine when executing a
return but much beyond that and the carrier will bounce 2 to 4 characters
at the start of a line. I?m wondering if the dashpot cup [plastic, rubber?]
is worn out and needs to be replaced. I look forward to any suggestions
that will help this little guy get back to doing his job like I?m sure he
did at one time. Thanks in advance for your assistance.

73,
Jim - KD9DO
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From hwhall at compuserve.com  Wed Oct 22 22:21:52 2025
From: hwhall at compuserve.com (hwhall@aol.com)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2025 02:21:52 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [GreenKeys] Dashpot
In-Reply-To: <CAJ6Y6gwHU0Qkm322rkMSVvfo9E5efz69FVv6kd_hO5vTSRr=-g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJ6Y6gwHU0Qkm322rkMSVvfo9E5efz69FVv6kd_hO5vTSRr=-g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1019197593.409431.1761186112724@mail.yahoo.com>

It does sound like the seal is deteriorated.

Wayne
WB4OGM

On Wednesday, October 22, 2025 at 07:20:36 PM MDT, Jim <kd9do.jim at gmail.com> wrote:

Hello Greenkeys!
Long time listener, first time caller. A little over a year ago I acquired a M28 ASR. Since that time I have been cleaning it up, fixing the ESU ? rectifier assembly, learning how it is wired and testing. There is one item that has me stumped. The dashpot does not seem to want to work as it should preventing carrier bounce on return from a long line of text.? This is when printing multiple long lines at 60 WPM.? I have the service manual and followed that, removed the dashpot assembly, cleaned and replaced, no luck. I did not lose the screw, nut, small spring or the tiny little ball. Reassembled all parts and tried adjusting according to the documentation, tested, but still no luck. The best I can get it adjusted is so that lines of text of about 60 characters or less will do just fine when executing a return but much beyond that and the carrier will bounce 2 to 4 characters at the start of a line. I?m wondering if the dashpot cup [plastic, rubber?] is worn out and needs to be replaced. I look forward to any suggestions that will help this little guy get back to doing his job like I?m sure he did at one time. Thanks in advance for your assistance.
73,
Jim - KD9DO

______________________________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net

>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to hwhall at compuserve.com

From w9ddd at tapr.org  Thu Oct 23 09:36:25 2025
From: w9ddd at tapr.org (John, W9DDD)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2025 08:36:25 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Dashpot
In-Reply-To: <1019197593.409431.1761186112724@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CAJ6Y6gwHU0Qkm322rkMSVvfo9E5efz69FVv6kd_hO5vTSRr=-g@mail.gmail.com>
	<1019197593.409431.1761186112724@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8630f898-91e8-b20e-d751-8691b241ff0b@tapr.org>

The cup, I've even had at least one NOS cup that didn't help.  At the 
moment I'm not remembering what the difference was.  Was there a change 
in material at some point in time?


On 10/22/2025 9:21 PM, hwhall--- via GreenKeys wrote:
> It does sound like the seal is deteriorated.
>
> Wayne
> WB4OGM
>
> On Wednesday, October 22, 2025 at 07:20:36 PM MDT, Jim <kd9do.jim at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello Greenkeys!
> Long time listener, first time caller. A little over a year ago I acquired a M28 ASR. Since that time I have been cleaning it up, fixing the ESU ? rectifier assembly, learning how it is wired and testing. There is one item that has me stumped. The dashpot does not seem to want to work as it should preventing carrier bounce on return from a long line of text.  This is when printing multiple long lines at 60 WPM.  I have the service manual and followed that, removed the dashpot assembly, cleaned and replaced, no luck. I did not lose the screw, nut, small spring or the tiny little ball. Reassembled all parts and tried adjusting according to the documentation, tested, but still no luck. The best I can get it adjusted is so that lines of text of about 60 characters or less will do just fine when executing a return but much beyond that and the carrier will bounce 2 to 4 characters at the start of a line. I?m wondering if the dashpot cup [plastic, rubber?] is worn out and needs to be replaced. I look forward to any suggestions that will help this little guy get back to doing his job like I?m sure he did at one time. Thanks in advance for your assistance.
> 73,
> Jim - KD9DO
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to w9ddd at tapr.org

-- 
---
----
The above comments or recommendations are SWAG. Use at your own risk.

John, W9DDD



From w1an.dxusa at gmail.com  Thu Oct 23 10:00:50 2025
From: w1an.dxusa at gmail.com (John Spigel)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2025 10:00:50 -0400
Subject: [GreenKeys] Dashpot
In-Reply-To: <1019197593.409431.1761186112724@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CAJ6Y6gwHU0Qkm322rkMSVvfo9E5efz69FVv6kd_hO5vTSRr=-g@mail.gmail.com>
	<1019197593.409431.1761186112724@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <044dbae5-fbeb-4c9a-b4b7-bade45c08e2b@gmail.com>

The adjustments for the dashpot on the M28 I found is much more 
complicated than the one on an M15. On the M15 there is a single 
adjustment. Also I found over lubricating the leather cup will defeat 
the slow down effect. I would check out the operating description for 
the M28 here:
https://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/tty/225B-5501.pdf
73, John W1AN

On 22-Oct-25 22:21, hwhall--- via GreenKeys wrote:
> It does sound like the seal is deteriorated.
> 
> Wayne
> WB4OGM
> 
> On Wednesday, October 22, 2025 at 07:20:36 PM MDT, Jim <kd9do.jim at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello Greenkeys!
> Long time listener, first time caller. A little over a year ago I acquired a M28 ASR. Since that time I have been cleaning it up, fixing the ESU ? rectifier assembly, learning how it is wired and testing. There is one item that has me stumped. The dashpot does not seem to want to work as it should preventing carrier bounce on return from a long line of text.? This is when printing multiple long lines at 60 WPM.? I have the service manual and followed that, removed the dashpot assembly, cleaned and replaced, no luck. I did not lose the screw, nut, small spring or the tiny little ball. Reassembled all parts and tried adjusting according to the documentation, tested, but still no luck. The best I can get it adjusted is so that lines of text of about 60 characters or less will do just fine when executing a return but much beyond that and the carrier will bounce 2 to 4 characters at the start of a line. I?m wondering if the dashpot cup [plastic, rubber?] is worn out and needs to be replaced. I look forward to any suggestions that will help this little guy get back to doing his job like I?m sure he did at one time. Thanks in advance for your assistance.
> 73,
> Jim - KD9DO
> 
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> 
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to hwhall at compuserve.com
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> 
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to w1an.dxusa at gmail.com


From nick at navy-radio.com  Thu Oct 23 10:17:04 2025
From: nick at navy-radio.com (Nick England)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2025 10:17:04 -0400
Subject: [GreenKeys] Dashpot
In-Reply-To: <8630f898-91e8-b20e-d751-8691b241ff0b@tapr.org>
References: <CAJ6Y6gwHU0Qkm322rkMSVvfo9E5efz69FVv6kd_hO5vTSRr=-g@mail.gmail.com>
	<1019197593.409431.1761186112724@mail.yahoo.com>
	<8630f898-91e8-b20e-d751-8691b241ff0b@tapr.org>
Message-ID: <CAB55hNdm6uYyrwY6dabXDypuJKxBGKfQxbPyF=G-iw+5ebhGnQ@mail.gmail.com>

The cup part number 150975 didn?t change from early to late. Don?t know
about the material. Paul Cembura might know from looking in his parts bin.

A quick search in my manuals didn?t turn up any reference to a change in
materials.

Anyway, Jim, try a new cup from Paul.
https://www.johnwhitney.com/misc/paul-rtty.htm


Nick England K4NYW
Chapel Hill NC
www.navy-radio.com


On Thu, Oct 23, 2025 at 9:36?AM John, W9DDD <w9ddd at tapr.org> wrote:

> The cup, I've even had at least one NOS cup that didn't help.  At the
> moment I'm not remembering what the difference was.  Was there a change
> in material at some point in time?
>
>
> On 10/22/2025 9:21 PM, hwhall--- via GreenKeys wrote:
> > It does sound like the seal is deteriorated.
> >
> > Wayne
> > WB4OGM
> >
> > On Wednesday, October 22, 2025 at 07:20:36 PM MDT, Jim <
> kd9do.jim at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Greenkeys!
> > Long time listener, first time caller. A little over a year ago I
> acquired a M28 ASR. Since that time I have been cleaning it up, fixing the
> ESU ? rectifier assembly, learning how it is wired and testing. There is
> one item that has me stumped. The dashpot does not seem to want to work as
> it should preventing carrier bounce on return from a long line of text.
> This is when printing multiple long lines at 60 WPM.  I have the service
> manual and followed that, removed the dashpot assembly, cleaned and
> replaced, no luck. I did not lose the screw, nut, small spring or the tiny
> little ball. Reassembled all parts and tried adjusting according to the
> documentation, tested, but still no luck. The best I can get it adjusted is
> so that lines of text of about 60 characters or less will do just fine when
> executing a return but much beyond that and the carrier will bounce 2 to 4
> characters at the start of a line. I?m wondering if the dashpot cup
> [plastic, rubber?] is worn out and needs to be replaced. I look forward to
> any suggestions that will help this little guy get back to doing his job
> like I?m sure he did at one time. Thanks in advance for your assistance.
> > 73,
> > Jim - KD9DO
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > GreenKeys mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> >
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to w9ddd at tapr.org
>
> --
> ---
> ----
> The above comments or recommendations are SWAG. Use at your own risk.
>
> John, W9DDD
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to nick at navy-radio.com
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From w1an.dxusa at gmail.com  Mon Oct 27 10:08:05 2025
From: w1an.dxusa at gmail.com (John Spigel)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2025 10:08:05 -0400
Subject: [GreenKeys] M14/15/19 Ribbons
In-Reply-To: <bd0d6334-6c1f-4008-befc-8fd9e9904e40@gmail.com>
References: <CH3PR19MB7929535E8FD0F3AAD6C6A0C5D8ED2@CH3PR19MB7929.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
	<bd0d6334-6c1f-4008-befc-8fd9e9904e40@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8716572e-2443-4d95-85b1-5fd82a7176d8@gmail.com>

I use SCM SC20 ribbons. Walmart on line has 6 for 29.95.  These have 
rivets and print well.

Beware, some cheap universal ones I bought from Amazon were dry and some 
have no rivets. If you don't mind getting fingers dirty you can buy and 
crimp on your own rivets and swap spools for metal ones if you don't 
like plastic.

73, John W1AN

On 26-Jan-25 10:13, tony j. podrasky wrote:
> REMEMBER to check that the spools have the "reverse studs".
> 
> I ordered a set and the spools did not have the reverse studs.
> 
> 73,
> 
> K2EAA - tony
> 
> 
> On 01/26/2025 7:09 AM, John Lawson wrote:
>>
>> A quick look at Amazon will show many available ribbons ? as was said 
>> ? get ?Underwood? and be careful to get ?solid color?, not black/red.  
>> If you /really /wanna be traditional ? Amazon does list a few Purple 
>> ones?.
>>
>> I see 4 pairs for $14?.?? Several are there.
>>
>> These are what I use on my 15s?
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> John KB6SCO
>>
>> Carson City
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> tony.podrasky at gmail.com
> -- 
> "There are no typing, spelling, or grammatical errors in my e-mail. What 
> you are seeing is the evolution of the English language in action." -E.S.
> 
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> 
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to w1an.dxusa at gmail.com


From harold at w6iwi.org  Mon Oct 27 13:18:26 2025
From: harold at w6iwi.org (Harold Hallikainen)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2025 10:18:26 -0700
Subject: [GreenKeys] M14/15/19 Ribbons
Message-ID: <7d666264d769fe6a7837b3afea79d96d.squirrel@hallikainen.org>



On Mon, October 27, 2025 7:08 am, John Spigel wrote:
> I use SCM SC20 ribbons. Walmart on line has 6 for 29.95.  These have
> rivets and print well.
>
> Beware, some cheap universal ones I bought from Amazon were dry and some
> have no rivets. If you don't mind getting fingers dirty you can buy and
> crimp on your own rivets and swap spools for metal ones if you don't like
> plastic.
>
> 73, John W1AN
>

Thanks for the info! I can't find them at that price at Walmart.com. Also,
they do not say what the ribbons are made of. I REALLY LIKE nylon ribbons
better than cotton. The cotton ribbons shed clogging the type making my
model 15 print blobs instead of characters. The nylon ribbon keeps the
print clean. I also use the Telemethod reinker (
https://w6iwi.org/rtty/15reinker/ ) to keep print dark.

It's interesting that the Walmart pages say " If you want New Fresh Ink
Ribbons,  stop the search and buy PRINTER RIBBON DEPOT..."Every Ribbon You
will Ever Need".

Going to https://www.printerribbondepot.com/ and searching on SC20 returns
no results.

There IS a Printer Ribbon Depot store on eBay at
https://www.ebay.com/str/printerribbondepot . Again, I do not see a
description of what the ribbon material is.

The eBay store also says:

FREE SUPPORT is offered from an English Speaking Grouchy Old Retired Navy
Vet that worked on Teletypes and Typewriters while serving his country (my
dad).


Harold
https://w6iwi.org






-- 
Not sent from an iPhone.

From macbax1 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 27 13:28:24 2025
From: macbax1 at gmail.com (Joe Clanin)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2025 12:28:24 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] M14/15/19 Ribbons
In-Reply-To: <7d666264d769fe6a7837b3afea79d96d.squirrel@hallikainen.org>
References: <7d666264d769fe6a7837b3afea79d96d.squirrel@hallikainen.org>
Message-ID: <CAK1UwOZyP_-YVUp7OA5XAOXUeq0HaYbLXTkf-RqdMR0xFNT7Hg@mail.gmail.com>

All,

Buy your ribbons from Jim Cooper! https://bit.ly/TTY-stuff

Best,

Joe

On Mon, Oct 27, 2025 at 12:19?PM Harold Hallikainen via GreenKeys <
greenkeys at mailman.qth.net> wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, October 27, 2025 7:08 am, John Spigel wrote:
> > I use SCM SC20 ribbons. Walmart on line has 6 for 29.95.  These have
> > rivets and print well.
> >
> > Beware, some cheap universal ones I bought from Amazon were dry and some
> > have no rivets. If you don't mind getting fingers dirty you can buy and
> > crimp on your own rivets and swap spools for metal ones if you don't like
> > plastic.
> >
> > 73, John W1AN
> >
>
> Thanks for the info! I can't find them at that price at Walmart.com. Also,
> they do not say what the ribbons are made of. I REALLY LIKE nylon ribbons
> better than cotton. The cotton ribbons shed clogging the type making my
> model 15 print blobs instead of characters. The nylon ribbon keeps the
> print clean. I also use the Telemethod reinker (
> https://w6iwi.org/rtty/15reinker/ ) to keep print dark.
>
> It's interesting that the Walmart pages say " If you want New Fresh Ink
> Ribbons,  stop the search and buy PRINTER RIBBON DEPOT..."Every Ribbon You
> will Ever Need".
>
> Going to https://www.printerribbondepot.com/ and searching on SC20 returns
> no results.
>
> There IS a Printer Ribbon Depot store on eBay at
> https://www.ebay.com/str/printerribbondepot . Again, I do not see a
> description of what the ribbon material is.
>
> The eBay store also says:
>
> FREE SUPPORT is offered from an English Speaking Grouchy Old Retired Navy
> Vet that worked on Teletypes and Typewriters while serving his country (my
> dad).
>
>
> Harold
> https://w6iwi.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Not sent from an iPhone.
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to macbax1 at gmail.com
>
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From io at jimcooper.org  Mon Oct 27 12:48:21 2025
From: io at jimcooper.org (Jim Cooper)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2025 12:48:21 -0400
Subject: [GreenKeys] M14/15/19 Ribbons
In-Reply-To: <8716572e-2443-4d95-85b1-5fd82a7176d8@gmail.com>
References: <CH3PR19MB7929535E8FD0F3AAD6C6A0C5D8ED2@CH3PR19MB7929.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>,
	<bd0d6334-6c1f-4008-befc-8fd9e9904e40@gmail.com>,
	<8716572e-2443-4d95-85b1-5fd82a7176d8@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <68FFA255.18527.42B9B3F4@io.jimcooper.org>

Please see attached pdf...  I still have a supply of these, 
which have received good reports from GreenKey'ers. 

Jim  w2jc 

On 27 Oct 2025 at 10:08, John Spigel wrote:

> I use SCM SC20 ribbons. Walmart on line has 6 for 29.95.  These have
> rivets and print well.
> 
> Beware, some cheap universal ones I bought from Amazon were dry and
> some 
> have no rivets. If you don't mind getting fingers dirty you can buy
> and 
> crimp on your own rivets and swap spools for metal ones if you don't
> like plastic.
> 
> 73, John W1AN
> 
> On 26-Jan-25 10:13, tony j. podrasky wrote:
> > REMEMBER to check that the spools have the "reverse studs".
> > 
> > I ordered a set and the spools did not have the reverse studs.
> > 
> > 73,
> > 
> > K2EAA - tony
> > 
> > 
> > On 01/26/2025 7:09 AM, John Lawson wrote:
> >>
> >> A quick look at Amazon will show many available ribbons - as
> was said 
> >> - get `Underwood" and be careful to get `solid color?,
> not black/red.  
> >> If you /really /wanna be traditional - Amazon does list a few
> Purple 
> >> ones....
> >>
> >> I see 4 pairs for $14....?? Several are there.
> >>
> >> These are what I use on my 15s...
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >>
> >> John KB6SCO
> >>
> >> Carson City
> >>
> >>
> >> ______________________________________________________________
> >> tony.podrasky at gmail.com
> > -- 
> > "There are no typing, spelling, or grammatical errors in my
> e-mail. What 
> > you are seeing is the evolution of the English language in
> action." -E.S.
> > 
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > GreenKeys mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> > 
> >>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> > 
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list:
> http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to w1an.dxusa at gmail.com
> 
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> 
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list:
> http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to w2jc at optonline.net



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From w1an.dxusa at gmail.com  Tue Oct 28 00:42:48 2025
From: w1an.dxusa at gmail.com (John Spigel)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2025 00:42:48 -0400
Subject: [GreenKeys] M14/15/19 Ribbons
In-Reply-To: <7d666264d769fe6a7837b3afea79d96d.squirrel@hallikainen.org>
References: <7d666264d769fe6a7837b3afea79d96d.squirrel@hallikainen.org>
Message-ID: <58362f29-2a45-4ef7-aac1-70d2a3fc82d4@gmail.com>

I checked the price the morning of the 27th before my post. It was still 
29.95 the amount I paid on February 15, 2025. Today, Oct 28, I see it as 
48.00! Yikes! May have to take a look at another source.

The ribbons are sold by FJA products. They have the US flag on them. No 
problem with clogging the pallets on several M15s. Likely nylon.

73, John W1AN

On 27-Oct-25 13:18, Harold Hallikainen via GreenKeys wrote:
> 
> 
> On Mon, October 27, 2025 7:08 am, John Spigel wrote:
>> I use SCM SC20 ribbons. Walmart on line has 6 for 29.95.  These have
>> rivets and print well.
>>
>> Beware, some cheap universal ones I bought from Amazon were dry and some
>> have no rivets. If you don't mind getting fingers dirty you can buy and
>> crimp on your own rivets and swap spools for metal ones if you don't like
>> plastic.
>>
>> 73, John W1AN
>>
> 
> Thanks for the info! I can't find them at that price at Walmart.com. Also,
> they do not say what the ribbons are made of. I REALLY LIKE nylon ribbons
> better than cotton. The cotton ribbons shed clogging the type making my
> model 15 print blobs instead of characters. The nylon ribbon keeps the
> print clean. I also use the Telemethod reinker (
> https://w6iwi.org/rtty/15reinker/ ) to keep print dark.
> 
> It's interesting that the Walmart pages say " If you want New Fresh Ink
> Ribbons,  stop the search and buy PRINTER RIBBON DEPOT..."Every Ribbon You
> will Ever Need".
> 
> Going to https://www.printerribbondepot.com/ and searching on SC20 returns
> no results.
> 
> There IS a Printer Ribbon Depot store on eBay at
> https://www.ebay.com/str/printerribbondepot . Again, I do not see a
> description of what the ribbon material is.
> 
> The eBay store also says:
> 
> FREE SUPPORT is offered from an English Speaking Grouchy Old Retired Navy
> Vet that worked on Teletypes and Typewriters while serving his country (my
> dad).
> 
> 
> Harold
> https://w6iwi.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


From nick at navy-radio.com  Tue Oct 28 12:04:19 2025
From: nick at navy-radio.com (Nick England)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2025 12:04:19 -0400
Subject: [GreenKeys] Humor -AI vs M28
Message-ID: <CAB55hNevP1MTC2fhJVivtxLBDTBHnmkGXUo6Te25KQMM9p9ODA@mail.gmail.com>

Just for grins, I asked the google AI about the difference between the Mark
I and Mark II versions of the Model 28. The response looked pretty good,
mostly relying on the (ahem) outstanding resource here
https://www.navy-radio.com/tty/28-mark.htm
<https://www.navy-radio.com/tty/28-mark.htm#:~:text=Since%20the%20changes%20in%20adjustments,the%20lubrication%20procedure%20are%20few.>

But the AI response also relied on this-
As a Mark II, this model benefits from updates over the Mark I, including
improved interior ergonomics and subtle styling enhancements?
(From a web page on the Jensen Interceptor sports car. )

YMMV,
Nick England K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com
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From nick at navy-radio.com  Tue Oct 28 13:39:41 2025
From: nick at navy-radio.com (Nick England)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2025 13:39:41 -0400
Subject: [GreenKeys] Model 28 Mark I vs Mark II
In-Reply-To: <CAB55hNfqg+9RNequMNsU1bY+5W2NWZGM4F0YtqMA7VkUbVA0nw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB55hNfqg+9RNequMNsU1bY+5W2NWZGM4F0YtqMA7VkUbVA0nw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB55hNeJGWa0jdr0Xio_Z+S9fgrTfx92sLHsm4RKPYJsbUzMRg@mail.gmail.com>

> Speaking of which, the short-lived Mark I version used
> LK1 keyboard, LP1 typing unit, LMU1 motor, LESU1 control
> The Mark II series started with
> LK3 keyboard, LP3 typing unit, LMU3 motor, LESU3 control
>
> So, where are LK2, LP2, LMU2, LESU2 ??
>
> Nick England K4NYW
> www.navy-radio.com
>
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From w9ddd at tapr.org  Tue Oct 28 14:56:22 2025
From: w9ddd at tapr.org (John, W9DDD)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2025 13:56:22 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Model 28 Mark I vs Mark II
In-Reply-To: <CAB55hNeJGWa0jdr0Xio_Z+S9fgrTfx92sLHsm4RKPYJsbUzMRg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB55hNfqg+9RNequMNsU1bY+5W2NWZGM4F0YtqMA7VkUbVA0nw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAB55hNeJGWa0jdr0Xio_Z+S9fgrTfx92sLHsm4RKPYJsbUzMRg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a037dcc2-1c7f-c240-9615-96a23a067335@tapr.org>

My guess would be to save them in case they had some changes to make to 
Mk I before MK II was ready for release.


On 10/28/2025 12:39 PM, Nick England via GreenKeys wrote:
>
>     Speaking of which, the short-lived Mark I version used
>     LK1 keyboard, LP1 typing unit, LMU1 motor, LESU1 control
>     The Mark II series started with
>     LK3 keyboard, LP3 typing unit, LMU3 motor, LESU3 control
>
>     So, where are LK2, LP2, LMU2, LESU2 ??
>
>     Nick England K4NYW
>     www.navy-radio.com <http://www.navy-radio.com>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to w9ddd at tapr.org

-- 
---
----
The above comments or recommendations are SWAG. Use at your own risk.

John, W9DDD


From nick at navy-radio.com  Tue Oct 28 15:11:35 2025
From: nick at navy-radio.com (Nick England)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2025 15:11:35 -0400
Subject: [GreenKeys] 1949 time division multiplex demo
Message-ID: <CAB55hNcZ46hJJsbXptVk1UtRiGhW-Z-vOu0amGBYxoEJuXapDg@mail.gmail.com>

https://www.navy-radio.com/rtty/fgc5/fgc5-proto-4901.jpg

photo caption - Electronic Time Division Multiplex Unit with attached
battery of four Teletype transmitters. The Electronic Time Division
Multiplex rearranges the output of two to four teletype machines so that
the signals originated by those machines are transmitted over a single
radio channel by a single radio transmitter, simultaneously for all
practical purposes. The apparatus is divided into transmitting and
receiving units. As messages are fed into a battery of four teletype
transmitters hooked into the ETDM each is compressed in time, sorted into
the proper time channel, mixed with the other signals, and fed into the
radio transmitter. At the receiving end, the process is reversed and the
signals, unscrambled, are fed into the teletype printers essentially at the
same time as they are transmitted. Since each teletype transmitter can send
 at speeds of 75 words per minute, this means a total of 300 words per
minute transmitted. The Electronic Time Division Multiplex is calculated to
make the best possible use of available radio frequency channels in
military operations.

The sign in the photo says that it is being tested on a 6000 mile RTTY loop
DC-SF-DC.

More info on this AN/FGC-5 system is at
https://www.navy-radio.com/rtty-mux-fgc5.htm

Nick England K4NYW
Chapel Hill NC
www.navy-radio.com
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From macbax1 at gmail.com  Tue Oct 28 15:14:05 2025
From: macbax1 at gmail.com (Joe Clanin)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2025 14:14:05 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] Humor -AI vs M28
In-Reply-To: <CAB55hNevP1MTC2fhJVivtxLBDTBHnmkGXUo6Te25KQMM9p9ODA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB55hNevP1MTC2fhJVivtxLBDTBHnmkGXUo6Te25KQMM9p9ODA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK1UwOaPFzawNSD0j+LwS3xDhX-OX0A-0G5HZBhP8sN=yYw-dQ@mail.gmail.com>

As far as interior ergonomics go, I find they?re both a bit cramped.

-Joe

On Tue, Oct 28, 2025 at 11:05?AM Nick England via GreenKeys <
greenkeys at mailman.qth.net> wrote:

> Just for grins, I asked the google AI about the difference between the
> Mark I and Mark II versions of the Model 28. The response looked pretty
> good, mostly relying on the (ahem) outstanding resource here
> https://www.navy-radio.com/tty/28-mark.htm
> <https://www.navy-radio.com/tty/28-mark.htm#:~:text=Since%20the%20changes%20in%20adjustments,the%20lubrication%20procedure%20are%20few.>
>
> But the AI response also relied on this-
> As a Mark II, this model benefits from updates over the Mark I, including
> improved interior ergonomics and subtle styling enhancements?
> (From a web page on the Jensen Interceptor sports car. )
>
> YMMV,
> Nick England K4NYW
> www.navy-radio.com
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to macbax1 at gmail.com
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From harold at w6iwi.org  Tue Oct 28 16:17:40 2025
From: harold at w6iwi.org (Harold Hallikainen)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2025 13:17:40 -0700
Subject: [GreenKeys] 1949 time division multiplex demo
In-Reply-To: <CAB55hNcZ46hJJsbXptVk1UtRiGhW-Z-vOu0amGBYxoEJuXapDg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB55hNcZ46hJJsbXptVk1UtRiGhW-Z-vOu0amGBYxoEJuXapDg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9e8a72082e235b806bcdb44eb9a472ff.squirrel@hallikainen.org>

Before microprocessors, stuff was sure complicated! Though I guess we have
now moved the complexity to the chip and the software.

I remember first reading about time division multiplexing for data so you
could put multiple terminals on one modem. Then I read about "statistical
multiplexing" where time was only devoted to the "channel" that had
anything to send. I think this was the start of packet switching. Put a
header on the data to be sent and dump it into the FIFO buffer that drove
the modem. The header was decoded at the other end to send stuff to the
right destination.

They did amazing stuff with mechanical and vacuum tube equipment.

Harold
https://w6iwi.org


On Tue, October 28, 2025 12:11 pm, Nick England via GreenKeys wrote:
> https://www.navy-radio.com/rtty/fgc5/fgc5-proto-4901.jpg
>
>
> photo caption - Electronic Time Division Multiplex Unit with attached
> battery of four Teletype transmitters. The Electronic Time Division
> Multiplex rearranges the output of two to four teletype machines so that
> the signals originated by those machines are transmitted over a single
> radio channel by a single radio transmitter, simultaneously for all
> practical purposes. The apparatus is divided into transmitting and
> receiving units. As messages are fed into a battery of four teletype
> transmitters hooked into the ETDM each is compressed in time, sorted into
>  the proper time channel, mixed with the other signals, and fed into the
> radio transmitter. At the receiving end, the process is reversed and the
> signals, unscrambled, are fed into the teletype printers essentially at
> the same time as they are transmitted. Since each teletype transmitter can
> send at speeds of 75 words per minute, this means a total of 300 words per
>  minute transmitted. The Electronic Time Division Multiplex is calculated
> to make the best possible use of available radio frequency channels in
> military operations.
>
> The sign in the photo says that it is being tested on a 6000 mile RTTY
> loop DC-SF-DC.
>
>
> More info on this AN/FGC-5 system is at
> https://www.navy-radio.com/rtty-mux-fgc5.htm
>
>
> Nick England K4NYW
> Chapel Hill NC
> www.navy-radio.com
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
>
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>>>
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to harold at w6iwi.org


-- 
Not sent from an iPhone.

From nick at navy-radio.com  Tue Oct 28 16:52:36 2025
From: nick at navy-radio.com (Nick England)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2025 16:52:36 -0400
Subject: [GreenKeys] 1949 time division multiplex demo
In-Reply-To: <9e8a72082e235b806bcdb44eb9a472ff.squirrel@hallikainen.org>
References: <CAB55hNcZ46hJJsbXptVk1UtRiGhW-Z-vOu0amGBYxoEJuXapDg@mail.gmail.com>
	<9e8a72082e235b806bcdb44eb9a472ff.squirrel@hallikainen.org>
Message-ID: <CAB55hNdazpS9cswhN1LhtpLASBKc=5=rsjy1M7A4HrQhzD=UyQ@mail.gmail.com>

One of the cooler pieces of technology in the FGC-5 was the TTY input
interface. At the rear left of the CV-81 chassis is a vacuum tube triode
with a 60mA coil surrounding it?
https://www.navy-radio.com/rtty/fgc5/fgc5-21.JPG

Nick England K4NYW
Chapel Hill NC
www.navy-radio.com


On Tue, Oct 28, 2025 at 4:17?PM Harold Hallikainen via GreenKeys <
greenkeys at mailman.qth.net> wrote:

> Before microprocessors, stuff was sure complicated! Though I guess we have
> now moved the complexity to the chip and the software.
>
> I remember first reading about time division multiplexing for data so you
> could put multiple terminals on one modem. Then I read about "statistical
> multiplexing" where time was only devoted to the "channel" that had
> anything to send. I think this was the start of packet switching. Put a
> header on the data to be sent and dump it into the FIFO buffer that drove
> the modem. The header was decoded at the other end to send stuff to the
> right destination.
>
> They did amazing stuff with mechanical and vacuum tube equipment.
>
> Harold
> https://w6iwi.org
>
>
> On Tue, October 28, 2025 12:11 pm, Nick England via GreenKeys wrote:
> > https://www.navy-radio.com/rtty/fgc5/fgc5-proto-4901.jpg
> >
> >
> > photo caption - Electronic Time Division Multiplex Unit with attached
> > battery of four Teletype transmitters. The Electronic Time Division
> > Multiplex rearranges the output of two to four teletype machines so that
> > the signals originated by those machines are transmitted over a single
> > radio channel by a single radio transmitter, simultaneously for all
> > practical purposes. The apparatus is divided into transmitting and
> > receiving units. As messages are fed into a battery of four teletype
> > transmitters hooked into the ETDM each is compressed in time, sorted into
> >  the proper time channel, mixed with the other signals, and fed into the
> > radio transmitter. At the receiving end, the process is reversed and the
> > signals, unscrambled, are fed into the teletype printers essentially at
> > the same time as they are transmitted. Since each teletype transmitter
> can
> > send at speeds of 75 words per minute, this means a total of 300 words
> per
> >  minute transmitted. The Electronic Time Division Multiplex is calculated
> > to make the best possible use of available radio frequency channels in
> > military operations.
> >
> > The sign in the photo says that it is being tested on a 6000 mile RTTY
> > loop DC-SF-DC.
> >
> >
> > More info on this AN/FGC-5 system is at
> > https://www.navy-radio.com/rtty-mux-fgc5.htm
> >
> >
> > Nick England K4NYW
> > Chapel Hill NC
> > www.navy-radio.com
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > GreenKeys mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> >
> >
> >>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> >>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> >>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> >>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> >>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> >>>>
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to harold at w6iwi.org
>
>
> --
> Not sent from an iPhone.
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to nick at navy-radio.com
>
-------------- next part --------------
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From harold at w6iwi.org  Tue Oct 28 17:01:47 2025
From: harold at w6iwi.org (Harold Hallikainen)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2025 14:01:47 -0700
Subject: [GreenKeys] 1949 time division multiplex demo
In-Reply-To: <CAB55hNdazpS9cswhN1LhtpLASBKc=5=rsjy1M7A4HrQhzD=UyQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB55hNcZ46hJJsbXptVk1UtRiGhW-Z-vOu0amGBYxoEJuXapDg@mail.gmail.com>
	<9e8a72082e235b806bcdb44eb9a472ff.squirrel@hallikainen.org>
	<CAB55hNdazpS9cswhN1LhtpLASBKc=5=rsjy1M7A4HrQhzD=UyQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e6eb0ee17bce8293925ff5953b2430f6.squirrel@hallikainen.org>

The tube with a coil around it reminds me of the GE Phasitron (
https://bh.hallikainen.org/index.php/GeneralElectric#:~:text=*-,Phasitron%20%2D,-Dave%20Hershberger%27s%20page
). A very interesting way to generate FM (actually phase modulation).

Harold
https://w6iwi.org


On Tue, October 28, 2025 1:52 pm, Nick England wrote:
> One of the cooler pieces of technology in the FGC-5 was the TTY input
> interface. At the rear left of the CV-81 chassis is a vacuum tube triode
> with a 60mA coil surrounding it???
> https://www.navy-radio.com/rtty/fgc5/fgc5-21.JPG
>
>
> Nick England K4NYW
> Chapel Hill NC
> www.navy-radio.com
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 28, 2025 at 4:17???PM Harold Hallikainen via GreenKeys <
> greenkeys at mailman.qth.net> wrote:
>
>> Before microprocessors, stuff was sure complicated! Though I guess we
>> have now moved the complexity to the chip and the software.
>>
>> I remember first reading about time division multiplexing for data so
>> you could put multiple terminals on one modem. Then I read about
>> "statistical
>> multiplexing" where time was only devoted to the "channel" that had
>> anything to send. I think this was the start of packet switching. Put a
>>  header on the data to be sent and dump it into the FIFO buffer that
>> drove the modem. The header was decoded at the other end to send stuff
>> to the right destination.
>>
>> They did amazing stuff with mechanical and vacuum tube equipment.
>>
>>
>> Harold
>> https://w6iwi.org
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, October 28, 2025 12:11 pm, Nick England via GreenKeys wrote:
>>
>>> https://www.navy-radio.com/rtty/fgc5/fgc5-proto-4901.jpg
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> photo caption - Electronic Time Division Multiplex Unit with attached
>>>  battery of four Teletype transmitters. The Electronic Time Division
>>> Multiplex rearranges the output of two to four teletype machines so
>>> that the signals originated by those machines are transmitted over a
>>> single radio channel by a single radio transmitter, simultaneously for
>>> all practical purposes. The apparatus is divided into transmitting and
>>>  receiving units. As messages are fed into a battery of four teletype
>>>  transmitters hooked into the ETDM each is compressed in time, sorted
>>> into the proper time channel, mixed with the other signals, and fed
>>> into the radio transmitter. At the receiving end, the process is
>>> reversed and the signals, unscrambled, are fed into the teletype
>>> printers essentially at the same time as they are transmitted. Since
>>> each teletype transmitter
>> can
>>> send at speeds of 75 words per minute, this means a total of 300
>>> words
>> per
>>> minute transmitted. The Electronic Time Division Multiplex is
>>> calculated to make the best possible use of available radio frequency
>>> channels in military operations.
>>>
>>> The sign in the photo says that it is being tested on a 6000 mile
>>> RTTY
>>> loop DC-SF-DC.
>>>
>>>
>>> More info on this AN/FGC-5 system is at
>>> https://www.navy-radio.com/rtty-mux-fgc5.htm
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nick England K4NYW
>>> Chapel Hill NC
>>> www.navy-radio.com
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> GreenKeys mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>>>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>>>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to harold at w6iwi.org
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Not sent from an iPhone.
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> GreenKeys mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>
>>
>>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>>>
>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>
>>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>>>>>
>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>
>>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>>>>>
>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>
>>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>>>>>
>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to nick at navy-radio.com
>>
>>
>


-- 
https://w6iwi.org

From harold at w6iwi.org  Tue Oct 28 17:15:30 2025
From: harold at w6iwi.org (Harold Hallikainen)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2025 14:15:30 -0700
Subject: [GreenKeys] 1949 time division multiplex demo
In-Reply-To: <69013133.30694.48CFC7B1@JIM.W2JC.GMAIL.COM>
References: <CAB55hNcZ46hJJsbXptVk1UtRiGhW-Z-vOu0amGBYxoEJuXapDg@mail.gmail.com>,
	<9e8a72082e235b806bcdb44eb9a472ff.squirrel@hallikainen.org>
	<69013133.30694.48CFC7B1@JIM.W2JC.GMAIL.COM>
Message-ID: <69066cbe30e1ae4c767322d72fe7ee3c.squirrel@hallikainen.org>



On Tue, October 28, 2025 2:10 pm, Jim Cooper wrote:
> On 28 Oct 2025 at 13:17, Harold Hallikainen via GreenKeys
> wrote:
>
>
>> They did amazing stuff with mechanical and vacuum tube equipment.
>>
>
> But at least with that equipment it could be restored
> and/or reconfigured 50 years later ...
>
> who is going to be able to use anything from a surface-mounted and IC
> super-integrated chips in 50 years?   especially since almost everything
> now does its job with internal software which who would even know what it
> does in 50 years?
>
> w2jc

True! I designed stuff for the digital cinema industry. Projectors would
last 50 years or more. Now it is 10 to 1t years. A big part of the short
lifetime is end of life parts. If the projector or other equipment
manufacturer can't get the part, they can't support the equipment.

I had a real problem with displays going EOL. Since the volume in displays
is for consumer devices with very short production life, I was constantly
having to redesign for a different display. My firmware would probe the
display to figure out which one was out there and then run the appropriate
code.

Harold
https://w6iwi.org


-- 
https://w6iwi.org

From jim.w2jc at gmail.com  Tue Oct 28 17:10:11 2025
From: jim.w2jc at gmail.com (Jim Cooper)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2025 17:10:11 -0400
Subject: [GreenKeys] 1949 time division multiplex demo
In-Reply-To: <9e8a72082e235b806bcdb44eb9a472ff.squirrel@hallikainen.org>
References: <CAB55hNcZ46hJJsbXptVk1UtRiGhW-Z-vOu0amGBYxoEJuXapDg@mail.gmail.com>,
	<9e8a72082e235b806bcdb44eb9a472ff.squirrel@hallikainen.org>
Message-ID: <69013133.30694.48CFC7B1@JIM.W2JC.GMAIL.COM>

On 28 Oct 2025 at 13:17, Harold Hallikainen via GreenKeys 
wrote:

> They did amazing stuff with mechanical and vacuum tube equipment.

But at least with that equipment it could be restored 
and/or reconfigured 50 years later ... 

who is going to be able to use anything from a 
surface-mounted and IC super-integrated chips 
in 50 years?   especially since almost everything 
now does its job with internal software which 
who would even know what it does in 50 years?

w2jc



From mooreericnyc at gmail.com  Tue Oct 28 16:28:56 2025
From: mooreericnyc at gmail.com (Eric Moore)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2025 15:28:56 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] 1949 time division multiplex demo
In-Reply-To: <9e8a72082e235b806bcdb44eb9a472ff.squirrel@hallikainen.org>
References: <CAB55hNcZ46hJJsbXptVk1UtRiGhW-Z-vOu0amGBYxoEJuXapDg@mail.gmail.com>
	<9e8a72082e235b806bcdb44eb9a472ff.squirrel@hallikainen.org>
Message-ID: <CAE1er54r=9WO7WOBjWvEv+VN4ko+FC1Z9BJFfoMzJXcyviLiSA@mail.gmail.com>

Funny, I just snapped pics of this guy today.

See the magnets along the top? There is a manual online I found, but not
expecting much luck resurrecting it considering the layer of rust.

-Eric

On Tue, Oct 28, 2025, 3:18?PM Harold Hallikainen via GreenKeys <
greenkeys at mailman.qth.net> wrote:

> Before microprocessors, stuff was sure complicated! Though I guess we have
> now moved the complexity to the chip and the software.
>
> I remember first reading about time division multiplexing for data so you
> could put multiple terminals on one modem. Then I read about "statistical
> multiplexing" where time was only devoted to the "channel" that had
> anything to send. I think this was the start of packet switching. Put a
> header on the data to be sent and dump it into the FIFO buffer that drove
> the modem. The header was decoded at the other end to send stuff to the
> right destination.
>
> They did amazing stuff with mechanical and vacuum tube equipment.
>
> Harold
> https://w6iwi.org
>
>
> On Tue, October 28, 2025 12:11 pm, Nick England via GreenKeys wrote:
> > https://www.navy-radio.com/rtty/fgc5/fgc5-proto-4901.jpg
> >
> >
> > photo caption - Electronic Time Division Multiplex Unit with attached
> > battery of four Teletype transmitters. The Electronic Time Division
> > Multiplex rearranges the output of two to four teletype machines so that
> > the signals originated by those machines are transmitted over a single
> > radio channel by a single radio transmitter, simultaneously for all
> > practical purposes. The apparatus is divided into transmitting and
> > receiving units. As messages are fed into a battery of four teletype
> > transmitters hooked into the ETDM each is compressed in time, sorted into
> >  the proper time channel, mixed with the other signals, and fed into the
> > radio transmitter. At the receiving end, the process is reversed and the
> > signals, unscrambled, are fed into the teletype printers essentially at
> > the same time as they are transmitted. Since each teletype transmitter
> can
> > send at speeds of 75 words per minute, this means a total of 300 words
> per
> >  minute transmitted. The Electronic Time Division Multiplex is calculated
> > to make the best possible use of available radio frequency channels in
> > military operations.
> >
> > The sign in the photo says that it is being tested on a 6000 mile RTTY
> > loop DC-SF-DC.
> >
> >
> > More info on this AN/FGC-5 system is at
> > https://www.navy-radio.com/rtty-mux-fgc5.htm
> >
> >
> > Nick England K4NYW
> > Chapel Hill NC
> > www.navy-radio.com
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > GreenKeys mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
> >
> >
> >>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> >>>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> >>>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> >>>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> >>>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> >>>>
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to harold at w6iwi.org
>
>
> --
> Not sent from an iPhone.
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to mooreericnyc at gmail.com
>
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From bambi.page at gmail.com  Tue Oct 28 19:03:51 2025
From: bambi.page at gmail.com (bambi.page)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2025 09:03:51 +1000
Subject: [GreenKeys] New I-TELEX member in Australia
In-Reply-To: <mailman.9552.1761691835.2991.greenkeys@mailman.qth.net>
References: <mailman.9552.1761691835.2991.greenkeys@mailman.qth.net>
Message-ID: <CAATx=06Sg-_gMOycVcGUk4RZBngRrh02_4A9Xgn7UjtkyPWg9w@mail.gmail.com>

Just for information for other I-TELEX operators:
Australia has a new operator: NICK, located in Launceston Tasmania.
Terminal is a SAGEM TX-20 and calling number is 58750
Nick joins over 300 operators worldwide.
For more details about I-TELEX and using teleprinters via the Internet
https://www.cryptomuseum.com/telex/itelex/
-byes- bambi (I-TELEX 27387)

From duncanancy at earthlink.net  Tue Oct 28 21:42:35 2025
From: duncanancy at earthlink.net (Duncan Brown)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2025 21:42:35 -0400
Subject: [GreenKeys] 1949 time division multiplex demo
In-Reply-To: <CAE1er54r=9WO7WOBjWvEv+VN4ko+FC1Z9BJFfoMzJXcyviLiSA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB55hNcZ46hJJsbXptVk1UtRiGhW-Z-vOu0amGBYxoEJuXapDg@mail.gmail.com>
	<9e8a72082e235b806bcdb44eb9a472ff.squirrel@hallikainen.org>
	<CAE1er54r=9WO7WOBjWvEv+VN4ko+FC1Z9BJFfoMzJXcyviLiSA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <133bd050-2fbc-49a8-aa46-ee955338fe85@earthlink.net>

 ?Eric's unit was made by the Morkrum Co. in about 1920.? Enclosed is a 
picture of a Kleinschmidt Electric Co. Model 20, also from about 1920. 
They were both manufactured for Western Union and the main difference is 
that the Kleinschmidt unit had a frame on the sides. The machines 
printed on a paper tape that was stored in a drawer beneath the printer.

There are plans on making a serial to parallel converter/driver for this 
printer in the April 1962 issue of
RTTY magazine, but it uses over 20 tubes!

Besides inventing the first practical teletypewriter in about 1880, 
Emile Baudot also invented Time Division Multiplex with a system of four 
TTY signals operating on a single wire.? This was a synchronous system 
and the printers for this system can be identified as they have 5 
selector magnets - one for each bit. This synchronous, TDM, system was 
used up into the 1930s.

In 1924, Morkrum and Kleinschmidt Electric combined to become the 
"Morkrum - Kleinschmidt Corporation."
This name was felt to be too cumbersome, and in 1928, the name was 
changed to "Teletype Corporation."? Morkrum had previously been using 
"Teletype" as a brand name.


Have fun,

Duncan
K2OEQ


On 10/28/2025 4:28 PM, Eric Moore wrote:
> Funny, I just snapped pics of this guy today.
>
> See the magnets along the top? There is a manual online I found, but 
> not expecting much luck resurrecting it considering the layer of rust.
>
> -Eric
>
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From brooke at pacific.net  Wed Oct 29 14:21:50 2025
From: brooke at pacific.net (Brooke)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2025 11:21:50 -0700
Subject: [GreenKeys] 1949 time division multiplex demo
In-Reply-To: <mailman.9552.1761691835.2991.greenkeys@mailman.qth.net>
References: <mailman.9552.1761691835.2991.greenkeys@mailman.qth.net>
Message-ID: <48dfbbd3-f2dd-5136-e1dd-5953039308d8@pacific.net>

Hi Nick:

Here is a newer, much smaller and more capable unit.
https://prc68.com/I/MD1142.shtml

-- 
Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
https://www.PRC68.com
axioms:
1. The extent to which you can fix or improve something will be limited by how well you understand how it works.
2. Everybody, with no exceptions, holds false beliefs.

-------- Original Message --------
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2025 15:11:35 -0400
> From: Nick England<nick at navy-radio.com>
> To: Greenkeys<greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
> Subject: [GreenKeys] 1949 time division multiplex demo
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAB55hNcZ46hJJsbXptVk1UtRiGhW-Z-vOu0amGBYxoEJuXapDg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> https://www.navy-radio.com/rtty/fgc5/fgc5-proto-4901.jpg
>
> photo caption - Electronic Time Division Multiplex Unit with attached
> battery of four Teletype transmitters. The Electronic Time Division
> Multiplex rearranges the output of two to four teletype machines so that
> the signals originated by those machines are transmitted over a single
> radio channel by a single radio transmitter, simultaneously for all
> practical purposes. The apparatus is divided into transmitting and
> receiving units. As messages are fed into a battery of four teletype
> transmitters hooked into the ETDM each is compressed in time, sorted into
> the proper time channel, mixed with the other signals, and fed into the
> radio transmitter. At the receiving end, the process is reversed and the
> signals, unscrambled, are fed into the teletype printers essentially at the
> same time as they are transmitted. Since each teletype transmitter can send
>   at speeds of 75 words per minute, this means a total of 300 words per
> minute transmitted. The Electronic Time Division Multiplex is calculated to
> make the best possible use of available radio frequency channels in
> military operations.
>
> The sign in the photo says that it is being tested on a 6000 mile RTTY loop
> DC-SF-DC.
>
> More info on this AN/FGC-5 system is at
> https://www.navy-radio.com/rtty-mux-fgc5.htm
>
> Nick England K4NYW
> Chapel Hill NC
> www.navy-radio.com

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From bobalan at sbcglobal.net  Thu Oct 30 19:15:09 2025
From: bobalan at sbcglobal.net (Bob Rosenbloom)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2025 16:15:09 -0700
Subject: [GreenKeys] demodulator / display?
References: <e422bbb5-b575-4e81-9b9d-ae4c22e070b6.ref@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <e422bbb5-b575-4e81-9b9d-ae4c22e070b6@sbcglobal.net>

Some sort of home built demodulator/display...

eBay auction number:? 397211195205

I'm not interested but thought someone on the list might be.

Bob

-- 
Vintage computers and electronics
www.dvq.com
www.tekmuseum.com
www.decmuseum.org
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From kd9do.jim at gmail.com  Thu Oct 30 19:37:24 2025
From: kd9do.jim at gmail.com (Jim)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2025 19:37:24 -0400
Subject: [GreenKeys] demodulator / display?
In-Reply-To: <e422bbb5-b575-4e81-9b9d-ae4c22e070b6@sbcglobal.net>
References: <e422bbb5-b575-4e81-9b9d-ae4c22e070b6.ref@sbcglobal.net>
	<e422bbb5-b575-4e81-9b9d-ae4c22e070b6@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <CAJ6Y6gwnty0QBtWgxYFo9o4TE6VEz4UTLMQHhQJQDrzaS-2LDQ@mail.gmail.com>

Looks like a souped up home built ST-6000 that's been abandoned for many
decades.  The price is right but the shipping is outrageous, located in
Florence, Oregon.

https://ebay.us/m/Jw86Nh

Jim - KD9DO

On Thu, Oct 30, 2025, 19:15 Bob Rosenbloom <bobalan at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> Some sort of home built demodulator/display...
>
> eBay auction number:  397211195205
>
> I'm not interested but thought someone on the list might be.
>
> Bob
>
> --
> Vintage computers and electronicswww.dvq.comwww.tekmuseum.comwww.decmuseum.org
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to kd9do.jim at gmail.com
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From ranickels at gmail.com  Fri Oct 31 19:39:36 2025
From: ranickels at gmail.com (Robert Nickels)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2025 18:39:36 -0500
Subject: [GreenKeys] SARC Communicator article
Message-ID: <10bd7567-4535-46ea-be9a-ad1ebfe53a0c@gmail.com>

The SARC Communicator is a very well-done bi-monthly online magazine and 
Greenkeyers will want to check out this issue's article on Emile Baudot:

https://www.amateurradio.com/the-communicator-november-december-2025

73, Bob W9RAN
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From duncanancy at earthlink.net  Fri Oct 31 21:33:31 2025
From: duncanancy at earthlink.net (Duncan Brown)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2025 21:33:31 -0400
Subject: [GreenKeys] SARC Communicator article
In-Reply-To: <10bd7567-4535-46ea-be9a-ad1ebfe53a0c@gmail.com>
References: <10bd7567-4535-46ea-be9a-ad1ebfe53a0c@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <97529436-f72a-46ee-95c0-04059a78b90f@earthlink.net>

Thanks, Bob !

Great article.

73,

Duncan
K2OEQ


On 10/31/2025 7:39 PM, Robert Nickels wrote:
>
> The SARC Communicator is a very well-done bi-monthly online magazine 
> and Greenkeyers will want to check out this issue's article on Emile 
> Baudot:
>
> https://www.amateurradio.com/the-communicator-november-december-2025
>
> 73, Bob W9RAN
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home:http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help:http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post:mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
>>>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:https://teletype.net/gksearch
>>>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>>>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
> This list hosted by:http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list:http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered toduncanancy at earthlink.net
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