[Milsurplus] TBY-8 batteries

Wed Jul 11 15:01:50 EDT 2007

Ray,

This has come up time and again over here. Our vintage group VMARS has 
addressed the issue and attached is what I take as my guidelines. This was 
written by one of our members, Richard Hankins, G7RVI. I think it makes a 
lot of sense, the "WS62" mentioned is the Wireless Set No 62, a WWII 
transceiver:-

 I will put these figures into context for you, to show just how
ridiculous this whole saga is. I have done quite a bit of work on
investigating the reality behind the claim of danger from old radio
equipment, and have a reasonable selection of documents on file. I
don't agree with Chris that we can leave this to the medics to sort out
- no doubt they know about the effects of radiation on the body - but
that is not in question here. What is in question is the amount of risk
from vintage radio equipment - a question that the medics are no more
qualified to answer than anyone else here. (Actually we do have some
comments from a medic on the VMARS committee, which roundly condemns the
MOD as indulging in "irrational behaviour and ridiculous decisions".
That is interesting but I think most of us want information rather than
opinions however well founded.)

Chris reports that the level of activity from the WS62 measured was
0.14MBq (megabecquerels), and the isotope concerned is Ra-226. What
is important for human health is not the level of activity, but the dose
of radioactivity that you receive as a result of "interacting" with the
source. The "Ionising Radiation Regulations 1985" define the safe
limits of radiation dose for various classes of people. Lets take the
"ordinary member of the public" class since these have the tightest limits:

1. Whole body exposure is limited to 5mSv per year

2. Any one organ is limited to 50mSv per year.

3. A tighter limit applies to the lens of your eyes of 15mSv per year.

The "mSV" stands for milliSieverts, and this is a measure of the
radiation dose per unit mass of human tissue. You can debate which
limit is the relevant one for vintage radios, but its hard to see how
the "whole body" one is relevant - however just bear it in mind while
reading the following.

In terms of our "hazardous" WS62, if you stayed at a distance of 10cm
from the radioactive source, you would receive 1.4x10-5 mSv per hour
(and remember its not the whole WS62 that is active - just the turns
counter). If you stayed in that position _continously__ for a whole
year_ you would get a total dose of 0.122mSv or 122 microSieverts. (If
anyone wants to know how to turn radioactivity level into dose rate,
then refer to this handy calculator as a starting point:
http://www.radprocalculator.com/Index.aspx )
<http://www.radprocalculator.com/Index.aspx>

Now consider what the doses are that you receive from natural background
radiation. These are average figures, and will vary depending on location:

a) From Radon gas which seeps out of the ground: 1300 microSieverts
(that's for an average UK location - if you live in Cornwall, its more
like 6300 microSieverts p.a.)

b) From building materials extracted from the ground: 350 microSieverts

c) From radioactivity in food: 300 microSieverts

d) From cosmic radiation: 250 microSieverts

And then you need to start considering man-made sources of radiation
(and again these will vary depending on circumstances):

e) X-rays for medical purposes: 300 microSieverts

f) Fallout from nuclear tests, nuclear accidents, etc: 10 microSieverts

All these figures come from a DERA publication called "Biological
Effects, Methods of Protection and Dose Limits".

Whether you like it or not, you are already receiving a dose of around
2500 microSieverts per year, so our 122 microSieverts from the WS62 is
looking pretty paltry in the scheme of things, and that assumes that you
have had the WS62 turns counter within 10cm of your body for the entire
year!!!

Where there is undoubtedly a danger is if you start taking radioactive
materials apart, turning them into dust, and inhaling them or ingesting
them in some way, so that the radioactivity gets into your body (and
stays there). How much risk there is of that happening from a WS62
turns counter will depend what you do with it. Plainly from leaving a
WS62 on the shelf, using it (even daily) you will not suffer in the
slightest - that represents one example of fairly heavy use of the
set. To go to an extreme, we can say for certain that if you start
chewing on the WS62 turns counter, then you are very likely to get
radioactive material into your body, with probably very unpleasant
consequences. That leaves a grey area where questions like the
following need to be answered:

i) does radioactive paint flake off by itself if left to its own devices?

ii) if the paint does flake off, does it turn into particles that are
visible to the eye, or so small that they are not visible, i.e. dust?

iii) if dust is an issue, does radioactive dust build up inside a set,
so that it is a hazard to open?

iv) does washing your hands after working on a radioactive set deal
with any "dust issues" or should we be wearing face masks, rubber
gloves, etc?

I am sure you can think of more questions of this sort that should be
asked. Answers to them will then generate a set of rules for handling
these sets safely, which may of course turn out to be no rules at all,
because the risk is so small that it is not worth worrying about. I am
of course assuming that we are all agreed that throwing vintage
equipment in the bin just because there might be some hazard is quite
unjustified, and thus handling these sets will be what we all intend to
do. (And if anyone is thinking of following the MOD's example, I will
be quite happy to take their "dangerous" equipment off their hands, and
sign a document absolving them of all responsibility for the consequences).

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

73,

Roger Basford/G3VKM

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ray Fantini" <rafantini at salisbury.edu>
To: "David Stinson" <arc5 at ix.netcom.com>; <milsurplus at mailman.qth.net>; 
"Roger Basford" <roger at new-gate.co.uk>
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 7:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Milsurplus] TBY-8 batteries

> If you try to dispose of it legally, the authorities are going to
>> want to know from where it came, and if they ever find out about
>> the radium paint on the TBY, God himself help you, because
>> you'll need His intervention to deal with the hurricane of
>> stupidity that will follow.
>> Regards,
>> D.S.
>
>
> Back at last years MRCA get together I brought along a Geiger counter with 
> a Alpha sensing head and have to say that the TBY sets that were their 
> were by far the most radioactive set their, was getting readings from the 
> face of the TBY ten feet away from the radio and off scale readings up 
> next to it in comparison to the labeled R-390 meters that produced only 
> small indications with the probe located within a couple inches. don't 
> know for certain but would propose that the TBY may hold a title as the 
> hottest emitter of Alpha radiation, maybe eight to ten times as much as 
> any other radio. do not remember the exact number but is way more then 
> other radios or the standard stuff like aircraft instruments and the like. 
> remember that just because the paint no longer glows don't mean the radium 
> is not their, think the radium isotope they used for the stuff back then 
> had a half life of about fifteen hundred years where the stuff they used 
> in the sixties and beyond was something like a tritium oxide that has a 
> half life of about thirty. I have a couple sixties aircraft instruments 
> that no longer have a active reading now.
> Ray Fantini KA3EKH
>
>
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